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CNN Larry King Live
Larry Interviews With Senator John Kerry and Duane "Dog" Chapman and his wife, Beth Chapman
Aired November 29, 2006 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DUANE "DOG" CHAPMAN, BOUNTY HUNTER: I said, "Honey, the federal marshals are here and they've got a warrant for your arrest."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, exclusive -- "Dog" the bounty hunter -- now he's the hunted.
Could he really end up in prison in Mexico-for capturing a fugitive rapist from the United States?
Even Congress is stepping into what's becoming an international incident.
Now in his only TV interview, the reality star tells how it feels to be fighting for his freedom.
But first, another exclusive....
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: And you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Senator John Kerry -- his first prime time interview since he botched his Iraq joke and since a new poll ranks him America's least popular leader.
How does that make somebody feel?
You'll find out next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Good evening.
We begin with the Senator John Kerry, Democrat of Massachusetts, his party's presidential candidate in 2004.
He joins us from Boston.
We want to get into news right at the top of things.
The president and the prime minister of Iraq were supposed to meet today in Jordan. Senator, they did not. It's postponed until tomorrow.
What do you make of that? Was that a snub today?
KERRY: Well, it's hard to interpret. But I think what's more important is really what happens tomorrow and what happens in the next days.
Obviously, the memorandum that was released today in the "New York Times" is devastating in the candor that it expressed about the lack of confidence in the prime minister. And I think what's critical is that the president needs to express a change of policy.
I hope the Baker Commission is going to come out with very strong language that expresses the need to begin the process of disengaging from Iraq, of shifting responsibility to the Iraqis and beginning to move on.
We cannot continue the way we are.
KING: What do you make of the Iraqi prime minister?
You met him.
KERRY: I think that all of the politicians in Iraq are using the American presence as an excuse, Larry, not to take on the responsibility they need to, which is why I have said for three years now that this is the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time and particularly within the last year that we need to be clearer about a date by which they will assume the responsibility.
In the absence of a date, they have an excuse to simply continue to dawdle and procrastinate as long as they want. I don't think one young American soldier ought to be killed because Iraqi politicians are unwilling to compromise in order to assume responsibility for their own country.
KING: Are they dying in vain?
KERRY: No. I think that any soldier -- and I said this including during the time of Vietnam -- any soldier who makes the choice of serving their country and puts the uniform on and goes for whatever the commander-in-chief asks them to do is a patriot and is serving their country in the highest way possible.
And we honor that sacrifice best by giving those soldiers the kind of policy that is successful.
The current policy is not succeeding. The current policy is needlessly putting many of them, in my judgment, at risk in ways that they don't have to be and it is helping the Iraqis to avoid the responsibility for their own country.
So what we owe those young men and women who are the most capable volunteer force we've ever had in our lifetimes, what we owe them is a policy that, in fact, gets success. And the only way to do that is not through a military solution, it's through a political solution, which will come through diplomacy.
KING: Colin Powell says that this conflict is a civil war. NBC calls it a civil war. The "New York Times" calls it a civil war.
Do you?
KERRY: Yes. And I have for some time. It is a civil war.
KING: Is it semantics or is that important?
KERRY: It's important. Yesterday or the day before, I think it was in Latvia or NATO, the president said that it is al Qaeda who is responsible for the violence that's taking place. That is just not correct. Even -- even Prime Minister Maliki said the other day the reason the violence is taking place is because of the politicians. And the politicians are breeding that violence by fighting each other rather than settling their differences.
This is Shia on Sunni, Sunni on Shia. And long ago, Secretary Rumsfeld said we're not going to leave our troops in the middle of a civil war.
They are in that civil war. And the only way to resolve it is by bringing all of the warring parties together, bringing the permanent five of the United Nations together, bringing the Arab League, the neighbors of the region and all coming together at a major conference at which the real stakes with respect to Iraq are put on the table.
That kind of diplomacy has been absent here.
And let me just also add, Larry, it's essential that we begin to engage with both Syria and Iran and that we put the Middle East peace process itself factor, back into the discussion. By pushing forward on the Middle East peace process -- and we now have a unique new opportunity -- we could really change the dynamics of the Middle East.
KING: You met with the Iraq Study Group, I believe, on Monday.
Any inclination as to what they're going to say?
KERRY: I think it's important for them to say what they're going to say and I don't want to violate that.
But I will tell you point blank, I said to them what I have been saying publicly consistently, which is that the American presence, according to our own generals and to our best experts, is making the situation worse.
Our own intelligence community is telling us that we are adding to terrorists, that we are making terrorism worse. If that's true, then you have to find the strategy to rapidly reduce that presence and stop that from happening.
You also, if our own generals are telling us, that is, that there's no military solution, have to ask the question, then what are all the troops doing there? If there's no military solution, where is the energy and effort being put in to find the political solution and the diplomatic solution?
I'm glad the president is there. I hope tomorrow is the beginning of that significant effort. But it's going to take a lot more one day and we all need to come together. This is not a Democrat thing. This is not a Republican. This is about our country. It's about our best interests. It's about our security. It's about a global conflict that has to find all of us coming together in a united way to try to resolve it.
KING: Do you see any light at the end of the tunnel?
KERRY: Only if we engage in the diplomacy that's necessary. You know, for -- I mean, I think -- I think Ambassador Khalilzad and General Casey said last May that the Iraqi government has six months to pull this together. We're now at that six month mark and they haven't done it.
So, you can't keep postponing the next six months confrontation. I believe you have to set a date, whether it's a year from now or a year-and-a-half, you have to have some clarity about when that transformation is going to take place, because it's the only way to get their politicians to be serious about resolving the conflict and it's the only way to get the stakeholders in the region to also be serious, to understand we are not going to be there forever, at least not in the way that we are today.
We obviously have regional interests. None of us have suggested just abandoning it. What we're doing is trying to find a different path to stability, a different path to success and a different path to fighting the real war on terror, which is in Afghanistan and 65 other countries.
KING: We'll be right back with Senator John Kerry, Democrat of Massachusetts.
When we come back, the joke that fell flat and how it might affect the political future of Senator Kerry.
And, as we go to break, a reminder of how some people reacted to it at the time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KERRY: I apologize to no one for my criticism of the president and of his broken policy.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Americans are very forgiving. We should apologize -- if Senator Kerry apologizes, I think we could move on.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: What Senator Kerry said was inappropriate and I believe we can't let it divert us from looking at the issues that are at stake.
GEORGE BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The members of the United States military are plenty smart and they are plenty brave and the senator from Massachusetts owes them an apology.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back with Senator John Kerry.
Senator, Quinnipiac University took a thermometer reading about people rating their feelings about 20 U.S. leaders, a scale of zero to 100. A poll was done two weeks after the November elections. Rudy Giuliani won. Barack Obama was next. And you were last.
How do you react?
KERRY: Oh, I would have voted myself last when it was taken.
Look, you know, I left out a word, one word in a joke that was intended to call the administration and the president to account for not doing their homework.
Obviously, I misspoke. The White House knew I never intended to say anything negative about the troops. You know, I'm a combat veteran. I simply wouldn't do that.
I know we have the smartest, most capable volunteer army we've ever had. I respect them. I love them for what they're doing and their sacrifices. I just wouldn't do that. And the administration knew that and they, nevertheless, chose to exploit it. It's politics. I think it's time to move on.
What's really important is, you know, I botched a joke. They botched the war. And we have young men and women today who are at risk because our policy in Iraq is wrong. And that's what really matters, I think, to the people of our country.
We've had an election. We won, incidentally. And I think now we have an opportunity to move the country in a new direction and that's important.
KING: Did you -- let me -- I want to show it one more time -- and I promise this is the last time -- because I have a question directly relating to it.
Let's see a clip of that moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KERRY: We're here to talk about education, but I want to say something before that. You know, education -- if you make the most of it and you study hard and you do your homework and you make and effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Senator, did you -- two things.
Did you realize quickly that it didn't work?
KERRY: I had a sense that it didn't, yes. But I didn't know, you know?
I really was thinking more about the purpose that we were there.
But what's important, Larry, is, look, I left out one word, the word "us." They get "us" stuck in Iraq. You know, I've had a long career in fighting hard on a lot of issues. And I care enormously about our troops...
KING: Well, you know...
KERRY: You know, I've spent years working to help veterans, years working to help our soldiers, years most recently -- and I helped make certain that the widows of soldiers aren't kicked off of our military bases within a matter of months.
I worked hard to be able to get additional pay for mental, you know, additional money for mental health care for soldiers who are coming back who have post-stress syndrome, and yet we have waiting lines.
So I really think there's something more important to move to. This is getting silly and the country needs to...
KING: I know, but on what...
KERRY: The country needs to think about, you know, a policy that has young men and women at risk on a daily basis that is not working. And my memory of Vietnam and my memory of service is such that I feel a solemn obligation to do everything in my power to make certain that we get this policy right.
That's what we have to be talking about. I mean here we have the president at a summit that is in crisis. We have a region in which King Abdullah has said you may have three simultaneous civil wars. The last thing the American people need to dwell on is something that took place before the election.
KING: Any comment on Bill Frist's announcement today, former -- the majority -- he's still the majority leader...
KERRY: No, I think everybody -- he's made his...
KING: ... that he's not going to run?
KERRY: He's made his personal judgment and I think everybody respects that personal judgment.
KING: What about you? Will you run-again?
KERRY: I have said again and again, that decision is down the road. You know what I want to do right now -- and I think this is what the American people want us to do -- we just had one of the most important elections in recent memory and the American people voted for change, overwhelmingly, principally for a change of our direction in Iraq, but also for a change of direction in the corruption in Washington, a change in direction on dealing with issues like global climate change, health care, jobs that are going overseas.
These are the issues that really matter to the American people. And I don't think they care that much about who's thinking of running for this or that right now. I think they want the Congress to get down and do the people's business. And that's what I'm going to focus on over the course of these next weeks more than anything else. We have a great opportunity to lift the country and to change Americans' view of the Congress itself.
I think that's a huge obligation and we've got to get at it.
KING: Will you?
KERRY: Will I what?
KING: Get at it.
KERRY: You bet I'm going to get at it, in the biggest way possible. I'm going to do everything in my power to do that in the next months and you'll see how.
KING: Thanks, Senator.
Always good seeing you. I hope next time it's in person.
KERRY: Great to be with you.
Thank you very much.
KING: Thank you.
Senator John Kerry, Democrat of Massachusetts.
Coming up, the famous bounty hunter who landed in the Mexican dog house for putting an American bad guy in the big house. "Dog" the bounty hunter is here to talk about his Mexican standoff, if you will, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back on LARRY KING LIVE.
And a great pleasure to welcome to this program, Duane "Dog" Chapman, bounty hunter and star of A&E's hit reality series, "Dog The Bounty Hunter." And Beth Chapman, Duane "Dog's" wife, who is also a regular on that series.
Now, we know that this has all come about through you going to Mexico. You apprehend this guy as a -- by the way, why are you a bounty hunter? Why do you do that?
D. CHAPMAN: Well, I couldn't be a cop, so that's the next thing closest to it. So I was in trouble at 14 and kind of ruined my chances to be a police officer. And then in life at a younger age, or older than 14, I got in trouble again.
So, hey, good way to be like a cop would to be a bounty hunter. So I picked that profession.
KING: And are you a bounty hunter? Do you sit...
BETH CHAPMAN, WIFE OF DUANE "DOG" CHAPMAN: Yes, I am.
KING: Did you -- when you -- were you one when you met him?
B. CHAPMAN: No, I was not.
KING: He made you a bounty hunter?
B. CHAPMAN: Yes, he did. My pursuit of him made me a bounty huntress.
KING: OK.
Now, let's tell the whole story behind this and get right into it.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
KING (voice-over): On June 18th, 2003, Duane "Dog" Chapman and his crew subdued and captured fugitive Max Factor cosmetic heir Andrew Luster in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. Luster had been the target of a five month international manhunt after disappearing during his trial on 86 charges of drugging and raping three women. He was convicted in abstentia.
D. CHAPMAN: Sometimes it takes more than guts and I felt when I saw Andrew Luster that night that the 24 or five years that I've been bounty hunting was all for one second.
KING: After "Dog" collared the fugitive, Mexican authorities arrested Luster plus "Dog" and his team of four. Bounty hunting is considered illegal in Mexico. But America got one look at "Dog's" mullet and mirror style and a reality TV superstar was born.
Since his August 2004 debut, "Dog" the bounty hunter has become one of A&E's biggest hits.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "DOG THE BOUNTY HUNTER, COURTESY A&E)
D. CHAPMAN: Yes, good job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The possibility of doing time south of the border has been hanging over his head the whole time.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
KING: "Dog," did you know that bounty hunting is illegal in Mexico?
D. CHAPMAN: Oh, yes I did. Absolutely.
KING: Why, then, did you break Mexican law?
D. CHAPMAN: Well, that's the whole subject of this -- of this -- thank you for having us, Larry King.
KING: My pleasure.
D. CHAPMAN: And we did not break Mexican law. We did it according to Mexican law.
We -- we used -- a police officer was with us when we -- the apprehension took place. We were heading toward the police department in Mexico-to turn Andrew Luster in and that's where things went awry.
KING: Why? Why did they arrest you if you had a police officer with you and you were taking him to the police station?
D. CHAPMAN: Well, when we first -- with when we started heading toward the roadblock, of course, Andrew Luster was in Mexico-under an alias. So when the Mexican police said, you know, what are you doing and who is this, he said his name was David Carrera.
And, of course, I said wait a minute, this is Andrew Stuart Luster, wanted on 86 counts of rape. He got 124 years in prison. He's an escaped prisoner. And, of course, Luster spoke fluent Spanish and was telling the police officers I'm not that guy, blah, blah, blah.
So just like in America, they take you down to the police department and figure it all out.
KING: I see.
Were you there, Beth?
B. CHAPMAN: No, I was on the phone as they were being arrested. I could hear them being arrested. We, Duane and I had searched for Andrew Luster for 166 days. We had 14 days left to the statutory time that you're allowed to get the return of bail money. So we only had 14 days left when he made the apprehension of Luster. So we had pursued him, you know, vigorously all the way until we had gotten to Mexico.
KING: Did you get the money?
B. CHAPMAN: Never.
D. CHAPMAN: No, sir.
KING: You didn't get the bail money?
D. CHAPMAN: No.
KING: Why not?
D. CHAPMAN: Well, we didn't get the bail money. He actually put up cash in California.
KING: Right.
D. CHAPMAN: But usually -- there is a California statute that says that we could, you know, get a...
B. CHAPMAN: If the person is captured within the 180 days, that the bail would be returned to the person who pledged it less the cost of their apprehension.
D. CHAPMAN: Right.
KING: And you didn't get that less than (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
D. CHAPMAN: No, we didn't get less account.
B. CHAPMAN: We didn't get that.
KING: Why not?
D. CHAPMAN: Well, I'm still wondering that, too. We went to the judge the first time and he said "Dog," bring your receipts. I know, you know, what you did. The probation wanted money. The sheriff's department wanted money. Everybody wanted a piece of the bail.
KING: How did you nab him?
D. CHAPMAN: We used the Mexican police officer to really hunt him down, because even looking for someone in Mexico, you know, is a no-no. So, you know, we -- I found an oops...
KING: Where did you find him?
D. CHAPMAN: We found him in Puerto Vallarta at his -- in a bar actually drinking with, you know, younger people all around dancing. And he was like sitting there, you know, picking out his prey.
KING: How many were with you?
D. CHAPMAN: I had my son, Leland; my brother, Tim Chapman; and myself.
KING: Now, looking at...
B. CHAPMAN: There was five of them total. There was a cameraman and a producer, also, with them.
KING: You were saying he was going to take a girl somewhere that night, right?
D. CHAPMAN: Well, yes, sir. We had assumed that. We -- after they searched his room, they found camera equipment, GHP, notes on Spanish to English like "please take your shirt off for me" and handcuffs.
So, yes, he was out hunting again.
KING: Did you spend -- were you detained? Did you spend the night in detention?
B. CHAPMAN: Several.
D. CHAPMAN: Yes, I spent several nights in the Mexico-jail. Yes, I did.
KING: Now, they -- you posted bond in Mexico?
D. CHAPMAN: Yes, I posted bail in Mexico.
KING: And did not appear at the appearance date.
D. CHAPMAN: Correct.
KING: So, in a sense, you could be bounty hunted.
D. CHAPMAN: Well, in a sense.
B. CHAPMAN: In Mexico.
D. CHAPMAN: In a sense we...
KING: Well, they could come here, grab him and take him back to Mexico.
B. CHAPMAN: No. No, because see, the crime that he's wanted for in Mexico-is a minor crime.
KING: A misdemeanor?
D. CHAPMAN: A misdemeanor.
B. CHAPMAN: A misdemeanor for United States purposes. So, as you know, in America, you can't chase someone from Atlanta to Mississippi on a misdemeanor.
KING: Right.
B. CHAPMAN: So thereby, you know, it's not the same.
KING: So what happens? That's just going to fade away if you don't...
D. CHAPMAN: Well, we -- we had, of course, a lawyer in Mexico, right? And he said, you know, this is not a serious thing. Now that we've found out who this guy is, you know, you can leave. And I said, well, if that's true, lawyer, then you go with me.
And he said OK. So we flew out in our own names with our lawyer.
Once we got back to the States, that's when the lawyer called me and said you owe me $250,000 and if you don't pay me, things are going to start looking bad.
So we didn't run. We left under, you know, the assumption of a lawyer from there telling us what to do.
KING: Do you make a lot of money doing what you do?
B. CHAPMAN: No.
D. CHAPMAN: I have fed a lot of children, but it's been from arrest to arrest. I mean I've, you know, I've spent every dime arresting the next guy and feeding the kids.
But I've had a very blessed life, yes. I have not gotten rich off of bounty hunting. But as, at my age now, there is more things than money, you know?
And I'm very satisfied at the record I've got, yes.
KING: By the way, on December 12th, A&E will present "Dog: The Fight For Freedom," at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. It's a special all about what we're talking about.
We're going to take a break.
Coming up, if you're out on bond, you can't carry a weapon.
So how does Duane "Dog" Chapman do his job?
You'll find out next.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Just before dawn on September 14th, a dozen U.S. Marshals burst into their Honolulu home.
D. CHAPMAN: Beth had a certain look I'll never forget on her face. And she said, "Honey, the federal marshals are here and they've got a warrant for your arrest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Mexican government asks U.S. officials to take "Dog," his blood brother Tim and son Leland into custody and extradite them to Mexico. It's just the beginning of an unbelievable nightmare.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's most unbelievable to them is the reason Mexican authorities want them in the first place. It's all because of Andrew Luster, a brutal serial rapist who drugged women in the U.S. with GHB and then violently attacked them while videotaping the assaults. This whole ordeal starts in 2003 at a moment of triumph and one of Dog's most spectacular captures. It would forever link Dog with Andrew Luster, but now Andrew Luster is coming back to haunt Dog.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We're back. I understand there were many rewards out for his capture. "America's Most Wanted" had a reward. You haven't gotten a penny?
D. CHAPMAN: No, we didn't get -- we had the FBI...
B. CHAPMAN: FBI.
D. CHAPMAN: ... he was a Top Ten Most Wanted.
B. CHAPMAN: FBI, Ventura County had $10,000...
KING: So haven't you asked? Did you call John Walsh of "America's Most Wanted"? Did you call others and say, we're entitled to it, we got him?
B. CHAPMAN: We did try to collect the e rewards at the time, but....
KING: You were declined?
B. CHAPMAN: ... the Ventura County court called him a vigilante and said, you know, you did this wrong, we're not going to pay you.
And so everybody just followed suit. But, you know, there were five different entities that had rewards out for Mr. Luster.
KING: You haven't gotten a penny on it?
D. CHAPMAN: No.
B. CHAPMAN: We got a very small -- small reward from one of the victims of Andrew Luster. And that same victim set up the Dogdefensefund.com helping with his defense.
KING: You said that you wanted to be a cop but something happened at 14 where you could never be a cop. What did you do at 14 that you could never from a cop?
D. CHAPMAN: Well, that's, like, hypothetical. I think I threw a rock at a car. But, you know, I had a terrible past until 21 years old. I was actually in Texas prison when I was in my early twenties. So...
KING: For what?
D. CHAPMAN: I was an accessory to a murder. I was in a motorcycle gang and one of my brothers in the gang went in the house and there was a shooting, came back out. And in the early '70 in Texas, there was no accessory before, during or after. There wasn't back then. So all of us there went to prison for the same thing.
KING: What straightened you out?
D. CHAPMAN: The Texas Department of Corrections, making big rocks little rocks.
KING: That worked?
D. CHAPMAN: Yes, that worked.
KING: That punishment worked?
D. CHAPMAN: Yes. Hard -- not just sitting in the cell, but hard work while I was being punished worked.
KING: How did you get this reality show?
D. CHAPMAN: Well, I had always -- I worked with Anthony Robbins in the early '80s and I met a lot of actors. And there was always something I had in common with actors, judges and cops. And I thought I'd like to be around these people because they've got money, they're generous, they're really -- they say these things that come true.
And I thought, you know, as a young kid I just wanted to be on television and wanted to make something of my life like that. So...
B. CHAPMAN: Well, people, they were -- CBS was interested in doing a dramatic series on him. And they just couldn't find a writer who could capture him. And so we had agreed that we would probably have to do reality television for a while, so that America could really get a glimpse of what he does.
KING: How long has it been on?
B. CHAPMAN: We're in our fourth season.
D. CHAPMAN: Fourth season.
KING: And a major hit.
B. CHAPMAN: Major.
D. CHAPMAN: Thank God, yes. Major hit. The more than we ever expected.
KING: That's great.
We have an e-mail question from Liz in Toronto, Canada.
"Since they're all shown on the show, do you ever worry about your family's safety?"
B. CHAPMAN: All the time.
D. CHAPMAN: Well, we worry -- I worry. But it's better as a father to have your kids and your wife right next to you than somewhere else. So, I'm there to supervise and watch. I'd rather have the kids knowing where they're at at all times. And being with dad is fine.
KING: Frankly, by the way, how many people have you caught?
D. CHAPMAN: Over 6,000 fugitives to date.
B. CHAPMAN: We quit counting.
D. CHAPMAN: Yes.
KING: Is there a kick to it? Like that moment when you come upon John Jones.
D. CHAPMAN: There is a absolute adrenaline rush because you study the person, his habits, his everything, his mom, what's he like, what's he love. You know the guy. People come to me and say, Dog, I'm your fan, I love, I know you, I watch your show, you don't know what that feels like.
I said, yes, I do because I know my fugitive. I know what he wants. I know what he likes.
KING: And what power do you have? Let's say you've got a fugitive in Montana. Can you arrest him?
D. CHAPMAN: We have...
KING: Citizen's arrest?
D. CHAPMAN: Yes. We have -- exactly, the power of citizen's arrest. What we can do police officers cannot do is dress like we want to. Other than that, police officers and us have basically the same authority.
KING: Do you cuff them?
D. CHAPMAN: Absolutely. We cuff them to protect us and ourselves. But we do not use any lethal weapon.
B. CHAPMAN: Ever.
D. CHAPMAN: Ever.
KING: Have you had anybody shoot at you?
D. CHAPMAN: Many.
B. CHAPMAN: Yes.
D. CHAPMAN: I've had many shoot at me. I usually say on my cell phone, officer down and get a location and the police Big Brother come and take over from there.
But we've never carried a gun and don't need to carry a gun to arrest them. KING: Why do you like doing it?
D. CHAPMAN: You know -- I've just been in the last couple years asking myself that. And I...
KING: And wondering why.
D. CHAPMAN: ... and wondering why. And the other day I went into the dentist's office and the secretary said, you know, Lisa that you arrested on the show, Dog, is doing very good. And if it wasn't for you, Dog, Beth and your family, she'd would still be doing heroin. But I want you to know she's back at the choir and back in church.
And I thought the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat, you know, I thought the thrill was catching the guy. But then after you hear that they make it or they do something right and we give them the "Dog speech", you know, I've been there, I know how to change. And I try to plant a seed of hope.
But when that guy makes it or that girl makes it, believe it or not, that's a better feeling than the actual, you know, "got you" on the ground and the scuffle.
B. CHAPMAN: That they're productive, they've don't have to, you know, that they have learned the skills to be able to get out of jail, stay out of jail and now be productive. And that's really what they had in mind when they said put them in jail and fix them.
KING: How did you get the name Dog?
D. CHAPMAN: I was -- my mother was a missionary and I, of course, was in the motorcycle gang. And they would, like, you know, let's rob a church, I'd would say no way, God's watching. We already had a guy named Preacher and John the Baptist, so they said, you know what? You always show up, you're a very loyal guy and you always talk about God so we're going to name you God spelled backwards. Come here, Dog.
KING: Simple as that?
D. CHAPMAN: Simple as that.
KING: Just ahead, Duane and Beth Chapman's love story and the tragic event that nearly caused them to call off their long awaited wedding. It's just ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How can I possibly begin to outline all the ways in which Andrew Luster has damaged my life?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tanya Doe, which is not her real name, bravely testifies about Luster at his trial. But before the trial ends, Luster suddenly goes on the run, jumping his $1 million bail. Authorities can't find him.
For Dog, this case becomes personal. He starts to eat, breathe and live just to catch Luster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Dog and his team race from the scene, Mexican authorities spot the commotion and give chase. Mexican authorities arrest everyone and put them into the back of a pickup truck. Luster speaks fluent Spanish and tells police his name is David Carrera. Within a week Dog and his posse post bail and head back to the States, where his legend as the world's greatest bounty hunter continues to grow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We're with Duane "Dog" Chapman and Beth Chapman. Don't forget that big special, December 12th at A&E at 10:00 Eastern. It's called "Dog, the Fight for Freedom". It's a special on A&E. Their regular show appears, of course, on A&E in its fourth year.
What almost happened to prevent the wedding?
D. CHAPMAN: We -- I've got many children and I had all these sons and finally I had a little girl. And she was 23 years old and the only one that didn't come to the wedding. And they called me and said, your daughter has been in an accident in Alaska and was killed.
KING: Right before the wedding?
B. CHAPMAN: We found out about 6:00 a.m. the morning of the wedding.
KING: The morning of the wedding?
B. CHAPMAN: The morning of the wedding. I remember I rolled over, happy wedding day. I had waited 16 years. And it was finally -- all the busts were finished, all of the busyness. And it had come to the moment. And this -- I walked downstairs and all the children were crying in the hallway. And I was like, what's the matter? You know, and...
KING: Called off the wedding?
B. CHAPMAN: I...
D. CHAPMAN: No, I didn't because that was not the right thing to do. And I -- I've always been -- told my sons that this blood doesn't run. And when I went to my sons, nine of them, and said, you know what, I've decided to do this. I've been with her for many, many years. And this blood doesn't run. All my sons, my family, the preacher, almost everyone I loved was at that wedding. And, you know, I went to all them, and I said, you know, in my daughter's memory the best thing to do is to go through with it.
KING: She was killed how?
D. CHAPMAN: She was in a serious accident on the highway in Alaska.
KING: Did you go up to Alaska?
D. CHAPMAN: No, we brought her -- we buried her in Denver, my hometown. And we brought her from Alaska to Denver and buried her there in Denver.
KING: True, you never get over the loss of a child?
D. CHAPMAN: Oh, no, you never get over it. You hoped at this point for sure there's a God. That's when you really wonder about -- and you hope there's a God because you want to see them again. I mean, that's -- the only healing thing about it is that you will be able to see them again.
KING: Speaking of that, we have an e-mail from Natty in Miami, Florida.
"With you being Christian and all why is there so much cursing on "Dog, the Bounty Hunter"?"
D. CHAPMAN: Well, it -- "Freeze in the name of Jesus!" doesn't work too often.
B. CHAPMAN: and you know, Larry, we're not at the church. We're actually in the streets where crime is going on, where -- you know, the term "When in Rome" -- you know, they don't necessarily respond to the normal, "Hey, stop," you know. "Let me search you, kid." That doesn't really work.
D. CHAPMAN: Well, the Bible says "Be all things to all men." So I don't think God is punishing -- would punish me for using curse words.
KING: Are you bounty hunting still?
D. CHAPMAN: We, as a matter of fact, in -- we bounty hunted until last night. We captured a girl last night, yes, absolutely.
B. CHAPMAN: Moments before the flight.
KING: In -- where, in Denver?
B. CHAPMAN: In Honolulu.
D. CHAPMAN: In Honolulu.
KING: Since you're so well-known now, doesn't that hamper you?
D. CHAPMAN: The only thing that hampers me is I cannot infiltrate as much as I could.
KING: Obviously. D. CHAPMAN: But I'm getting more information. And a bounty hunter's success is due to his reputation. And you know, people realize this Dog can hunt. And if you'll tell me where they're at, I'll catch them and I'll fix them and I'll bring them home alive.
KING: The attorney Bill Bollard -- Bill Bollard is the attorney for the Chapmans. He's going to join us momentarily.
Right now, let's check in with Anderson Cooper, our man who hopscotches everywhere. He's in Amman, Jordan, tonight, for "AC 360".
Anderson, are they going to meet tomorrow?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, supposedly. But they were supposed to meet tonight. So we'll see. President Bush was supposed to meet, of course, with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki for dinner. That did not happen. And the prime minister didn't even call the president to tell him he was skipping out. Was it a snub? We'll have the latest on that.
And another setback for President Bush, a bold statement from a former member of his cabinet. Colin Powell, saying today that Iraq is in a civil war. We'll have that.
Plus, a close look at all the options on the table. How to get out of Iraq and what to do next, from staying the course to taking the troops out.
We're still following, also, the pope in his visit to Turkey. "When Faiths Collide".
A lot to talk about tonight, Larry, at the top of the hour.
KING: If it's happening, Anderson's there. Anderson Cooper with "AC 360" at 10:00 Eastern, 7:00 Pacific.
So what's the worst case scenario for Dog in Mexico?
We're going to get the answer when LARRY KING LIVE continues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chaos, commotion and cuffs, a familiar scene for dog and his crew. Only this time the surprise raid is on them. All three bounty hunters are arrested for the alleged illegal capture of fugitive and convicted rapist Andrew Luster.
Back then, Dog and his men posted bail, left Mexico, and thought their long nightmare was over. But now, three years later, as Dog is driven away in cuffs, he thinks maybe this is all a bizarre set-up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back with Duane "Dog" Chapman, bounty haunter, Beth Chapman, bounty hunter and his life partner.
And we're now joined by Bill Bollard, the attorney for Dog Chapman.
All right, at this point, where does he stand legally?
BILL BOLLARD, ATTNY. FOR DUANE "DOG" CHAPMAN: Well, legally, we have taken an appeal from Judge P. David's (ph) original charge, which is a single crime under the Honeyskill (ph) Penal Code as Deprivation of Liberty. It's a minor charge.
KING: That he be extradited?
BOLLARD: And then they brought that to the United States and in Honolulu, they arrested him. And there's a charge pending there, a case that I'm working on with Attorney Brook Hart (ph) on the extradition.
But in Mexico we've got a hearing starting on Monday with the federal court, where, for the first time, the federal court will take a look at all of these charges. And it's our hope that if we're successful, of course, that these charges will be dismissed. But we have a fight on our hands.
KING: Tough?
BOLLARD: Yes, it's tough. And you know...
KING: Because are they in a right, in a sense?
BOLLARD: Well, you know what? I fully believe in the innocence of these people. The Chapmans did everything they were supposed to do. And, in fact, had this been resolved back then -- and they hadn't received the information they had from the attorney then -- this could have been resolved in moments.
But because it was let go based on bad advice -- and we think, actually, bad advice with a motive now, the attorney -- he also, as Dog said, he later called looking for money. And he said, if you don't pay me, thing are going to get worse.
And sure enough, they've gotten worse.
KING: Will you attend to hearing, Dog?
D. CHAPMAN: So far, right now Bill Bollard has set it where I don't have to attend the hearing. But I'm, you know, in very close contact with Mexico.
KING: Best and worst case scenario? Best, they dismiss?
BOLLARD: Best case, they dismiss, the extradition case goes away.
KING: Worst? BOLLARD: Worst case scenario is that they have to stand trial in Puerto Vallarta on the single charge of deprivation of liberty. It carries with it a sentence range of six months to four years.
KING: So Dog could, if it all carried out the worst, go to prison in Mexico?
BOLLARD: Yes, it could.
KING: How do you feel about that, Dog?
D. CHAPMAN: Oh, well, I'm voting no, absolutely.
B. CHAPMAN: Me, too.
D. CHAPMAN: And I wouldn't, you know, I don't think -- prison is prison, no matter where you're at. And a bounty hunter is not well- received in any prison ever. So I wouldn't -- I vote no.
KING: You said, Bill, that people connected with Andrew Luster have tried to influence this case.
BOLLARD: Yes.
KING: One, why?
BOLLARD: Well...
KING: He's back in prison for 124 years. What does it matter?
BOLLARD: Yes. But listen, there are people that are motivated by vengeance. We have come across them repeatedly. I've been in Mexico almost nonstop for the past eight weeks, Larry. And we have come upon them. The court officials have told us they've been there, they check out everything we file. They shadow our every movement. They are people motivated by vengeance, which is a strong motive, and also jealousy that want to see him in jail. Frankly, in my opinion, his physical safety couldn't be guaranteed in Mexico right now.
KING: We have an e-mail from Kim, in Fairborn, Ohio.
"Has this situation changed your feelings about our justice system?"
B. CHAPMAN: Not our justice system. We're not being judged by our justice system.
KING: Mexican justice system?
D. CHAPMAN: No, I was in Mexico jail and I know the Mexico justice system. And if you prove to the Mexico justice system that you had a reason and you dealt with it right, they're human beings. I mean, and I'm not just saying that. I was there. I saw it in work. I have confidence and faith in it.
KING: Can you argue in a Mexican court? BOLLARD: I can be there as a consultant and they accept argument from me frequently.
But let me say this. We have every faith and confidence that we're going to get a fair shake, a fair trial. We put our faith and confidence now in the federal Mexican judicial system. I've worked with it many years under the Federal Judicial Council. And we expect a fair shake.
KING: So you're expecting to be extradited, though?
BOLLARD: No, actually not. We expect to resolve the problem in Mexico so that extradition never has to take place.
KING: Some people complain about Congress doing nothing. But Dog Chapman's definitely not one of them. Find out why when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dog, Leland and Tim say they are separated and placed in cells near the worst of the worst offenders.
D. CHAPMAN: I was put in a cell where, you know, if you could imagine what Hannibal Lecter went through, except for the collar, just like that, where you've got to put your hands outside this little mail thing and get cuffed. Everywhere you walked, you're cuffed, you're stripped down. It's, like, unbelievable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back with Dog Chapman and Beth Chapman and their attorney Bill Bollard.
We're joined now in Denver, Colorado with Representative Tom Tancredo, Republican of Colorado. He and 28 other members of Congress have sent a letter to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, asking her to deny Dog's extradition to Mexico.
Why, Congressman?
REP. TOM TANCREDO, (R) COLORADO: Because I believe that we should never have responded to it. I mean, it was amazing to me, when I first saw this whole thing and first read about it, that we were responding to Mexico's request so aggressively, so willingly, so quickly. I mean, especially it was a request to bring back somebody, to extradite somebody from the United States for a crime that was really a misdemeanor, which is not something we would usually do.
We are asking, why are you doing it in this case? I mean, look at all the facts that have just been laid out, I think very clearly by both Mr. Chapman and Mrs. Chapman and their attorney, and you have to say to yourself, why would the United States, the Department of State, spend the time, energy and effort getting involved with this thing? And...
KING: Have you heard from the Department of State?
TANCREDO: Interestingly, today we got a call from the Department of State, saying that the letter is on the secretary's desk. It's being prepared. That's all I know. It's been a while. But it takes them a while to get back us to on these things.
KING: We have an e-mail question from David in Pasadena, California.
"I wrote a bunch of letters to help support Mr. Chapman and his family. Do you think the fan effort can help in this situation?"
Let's go around.
Do you think so, Dog?
D. CHAPMAN: Absolutely. Absolutely.
KING: Beth?
B. CHAPMAN: Absolutely. We have a 225,000 name on an online petition already, Larry. Absolutely.
KING: Bill?
B. CHAPMAN: The fans are the key.
BOLLARD: Absolutely. I mean, your show, actually, is watched. I lived in Mexico for three years and we watched you there. So this and any other effort by the fan base reaches ears in Mexico.
KING: You say in your letter to Secretary Rice, Congressman, "It seems that Mexican authorities are pressing this case only because they're so stunned by the embarrassment of failing where Mr. Chapman succeeded."
You agree?
TANCREDO: Of course, that is still a possibility. But I must say that I agree with the attorney there that elevating this to the federal level, judiciary in Mexico is a very good thing. And I want to congratulate Mexico in this regard, because I am putting more faith in the system there than I have in the past. And certainly, I've been critical of Mexico in many ways.
But I am glad to see what they are doing and I'm glad they're seemingly handling this in an unbiased and fair fashion. That's what I want to see continue.
There may have been -- there are so many convoluted reasons why this may have all come together and why, in fact, Mr. Chapman finds himself in this situation. I'm not sure what has caused it. But I'm telling you this, that the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of people around this country who are concerned about his welfare and concerned about how the State Department handles this can do nothing but help.
But I want to make sure that Mexico understands that I am not being critical of them at this particular juncture. I think what they're doing is good. I'm hoping for the best for them.
KING: Do you think, capturing it now, Dog, was worth it? Was it worth it to get Luster with all you've gone through?
D. CHAPMAN: Well, if it turns out -- I've got to be honest, absolutely.
KING: No matter how it comes out?
D. CHAPMAN: You know what, if -- what may be may be. I believe that there is a God and, just like my Congressman just said, there's some reason for this. And if I have to be the poster child to get both these countries together and get it where these criminals can't run from here or run from there, I'll be the guy.
KING: If everything come out OK, will you bounty hunt in Mexico again?
D. CHAPMAN: I'd let my lawyer answer that question.
KING: Can he say no?
BOLLARD: Well, you know something...
KING: We've got 30 seconds.
BOLLARD: Well, 30 seconds -- it can be done the right way. We're working with a lawyer in Mexico city, Enrique Gandara (ph), with Brook Hart in Honolulu. We have a team together. I think we're going to solve these problems. I've got a client who's innocent. And we plan to prove it.
KING: And Congressman, the letter's on her desk.
TANCREDO: Yes it is.
KING: That's a step forward, isn't it?
TANCREDO: I'll be interested to see exactly what she say to it.
KING: You keep us posted.
Thank you so much, Congressman Tom Tancredo.
Thank you, Bill Bollard.
Thank you, Dog and Beth Chapman.
D. CHAPMAN: Thank you.
B. CHAPMAN: Thank you, Larry, very much.
KING: And don't forget the big special on A&E December 12th, "Dog, the Fight for Freedom." It airs at 10:00 p.m. Eastern on his channel, A&E.
Tomorrow night, an interesting guest. Golan Cipel will be with us. The former New Jersey governor James McGreevey says that he and Golan were lovers. Golan says that he's strictly a victim of sexual harassment. Golan will be here tomorrow night with his side of the story.
Right now, on to Amman, Jordan, Anderson Cooper standing by to host "AC 360" -- Anderson.
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