Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

U.S.-Iraq Summit; The Fight For Iraq; Weather Watch; Off And Running; Pope In Turkey

Aired November 30, 2006 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Visit this hour to Turkey's blue mosque. See it live in the NEWSROOM.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: The president and the prime minister pledging to get Iraq on the right track. Their summit and its undiplomatic moment.

HARRIS: Ice, snow and arctic cold. A powerful storm bringing a January preview to the heartland. The forecast calling for winter on this Thursday, November 30th. You are in the NEWSROOM.

Helping Iraq's leader reign in violence. President Bush says one way to do it, speed up training for Iraqi security forces. He held a summit with Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki in Jordan today. CNN's Ben Wedeman reports from Amman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No clear indication what was accomplished here in concrete terms, but Bush administration officials were at pains to dispel the impression that they do not have confidence in the leadership of Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki. President Bush told reporters at a press conference after their meeting that Prime Minister Maliki is, in his words, the right guy for the job. And he said the U.S. will try to expand the role of the Iraqi government in establishing and maintaining security.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My plan and his plan is to accelerate the Iraqis' responsibility. See, here's a man who's been elected by the people, the people expect him to respond and he doesn't have the capacity to respond. And so we want to accelerate that capacity. We want him to be in the lead in taking the fight against the enemies of his own country.

WEDEMAN: And in Baghdad these days, one of the main concerns, of course, is the number of sectarian militias now operating in the country and what appears to be either the unwillingness or the inability of the Iraqi government to bring them under control. Prime Minister al-Maliki did stress during the press conference that the militias will not be tolerated.

NURI AL-MALIKI, IRAQI PRIME MINISTER, (through translator): We want to emphasize that we will not allow anybody to exert their control over any part of Iraq. If there's any talk about intervention in Iraq, and all the discussion, all the talks about people or other nations exerting control over Iraq, this is not true. This is a political process in Iraq. We want good relationships with our neighbors.

WEDEMAN: That's what they said in Amman. It remains to be seen whether those words will be implemented in Baghdad.

I'm Ben Wedeman, CNN, reporting from Amman.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: More on this now, Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki speaking for the first time since meeting with President Bush. At a news conference he called on boycotting lawmakers to get back to work. The political block loyal to anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr suspended activities yesterday. The block is protesting al-Maliki's meeting with President Bush. The group says it will return to work after its demands are met, including a timetable for U.S. troop withdrawal. The Iraqi leader made no mention of a timetable today. He did say the government is working to speed up the transition of security control to Iraqi troops.

COLLINS: Anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr viewed as one of the most dangerous men in Iraq. His power stretches from the slums of Baghdad to the seats of the Iraqi parliament. CNN's Arwa Damon has a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): An army of followers. Radical Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's public speeches rally the masses. The anti-American's political block threw its clout behind Nuri al-Maliki, giving him the prime ministership by a single vote.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, (through translator): The Sadr block in the house of representatives and the Sadr movement and ministers are suspending their membership of parliament and the government.

DAMON: The Sadr block holds at least 30 seats in parliament, controls six ministries. And if there demands, number one being a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. troops, are not met, they threaten to fully withdraw from the government. In the struggle to control power, this is al-Sadr's biggest political move. A reminder to Nuri al-Maliki and the United States of the powers he wields. Power that is bolstered by the Mehdi militia, thousands of well-armed fighters believed to be behind much of the sectarian violence here.

As the strength of the government is publicly being tested, not much is changing in the streets of Iraq. In Baghdad, at least three car bombs exploded in a single afternoon. Iraqi police found 52 bodies in 24 hours. And many Iraqis question why they ever went to the polls to vote for this.

Few Iraqis think he's the man for the prime minister's job. Now, Nuri al-Maliki has to prove to the United States that he can pull it together, another ally whose confidence in him is shaky.

Arwa Damon, CNN, Baghdad. (END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Want to go ahead and take you quickly to these terrific shots come out of Turkey right now. This is day three of Pope Benedict XVI's four-day visit to Turkey. We believe that he is very near -- kind of hard to see in this shot -- but St. Sophia's basilica. Later on today, you see that on the side of the screen there, he will be going to the blue mosque. We'll be talking about that a little bit later. Right now he's at St. Sophia's. This is one of the world's largest churches. It's actually been built on top of an ancient pagan temple. Went through a couple of phases of reconstruction before its current state right now. You see quite a few people gathered and quite a bit of press there. So we'll be watching this and, again, bring it to you a little bit later on when he does go to another very famous location, the blue mosque, in Turkey.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching CNN, your severe weather headquarters.

HARRIS: Back-to-back storms battering the heartland. An upper cut today as a storm threatens to dump more than a foot of snow in some places. Other areas may get a wintry mix. The heartland already sideswiped by an ice storm. It coated roadways, trees and power lines. The storm a shock after unseasonably mild temperatures. CNN's Brianna Keilar has more from St. Louis.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): This morning, the National Weather Service has large parts of Missouri, including St. Louis, under a winter storm warning. Other parts of the state have been issued ice storm warnings and heavy snow warnings, even flood watches. This after temperatures earlier this week reached 70 degrees.

People in this area are stocking up and getting ready. Roads are already slick and coated in slush. Forecasters say the storm that's headed here is very rare because it's arriving so early in the season and it has two severe components. Late Wednesday, a heavy ice storm began. That's on its way. And coming behind it, for the one-two punch, a snow storm that's predicted to last through Friday.

The ice has already slowed travel in the region. The combination of ice and snow could leave much of Missouri covered in about a quarter inch of ice and perhaps a foot and a half of snow once it's all over. Parts of the state to the north and to the west of St. Louis will get the most snow. The National Weather Service predicting up to a foot of snow here.

The same system has already blown through Kansas, dropping up to a foot of snow and an inch of ice in some areas.

This winter weather is expected to hang around the Midwest until tomorrow morning. In St. Louis, I'm Brianna Keilar.

(END VIDEOTAPE) HARRIS: Let's get a check now of conditions right now on the ground, real-time. Reynolds Wolf -- sorry, I do that all the time, don't I -- in the CNN Weather Center.

Good morning, Reynolds.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COLLINS: Meanwhile, the balance of power in Iraq. Who is in charge? Who's making the charge to be the next leader? A closer look ahead in the NEWSROOM.

HARRIS: And you may not know his name or his face, but this man wants to be your president. The Vilsack campaign kicks off. Coming up in the NEWSROOM.

COLLINS: And the pope in Turkey, visiting one of Istanbul's most magnificent landmarks. A live shot now. We are looking at St. Sophia's basilica. The Christian architecture here is just supposed to be stunning. So we'll continue to watch that story. And later on today he will travel to the blue mosque. We'll have some information on that as well. The history and the symbolism, right here live in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Boy, we really want to get you back to these live pictures. Man, look at this sight from Turkey right now. The pope visiting the blue mosque. Maybe he's there now. But he certainly is in the same square where both of these historic sites are located.

Are we looking at the mosque now? OK. St. Sophia. OK, the St. Sophia museum which is where the pope right now.

For many observers, I have to tell you, this trip by the pope to St. Sophia museum one of the largest, as Heidi mentioned just a moment ago, a Christian basilica, is being watched as closely as will be the trip to the blue mosque, which is in the same square. This site, St. Sophia, a site of a lot of Christian and Muslim symbolism.

The museum was once one of the most sacred sites in Christianity. Then it was converted to an audoman (ph) mosque. Isn't that something? And now is a museum. But take a look at these pictures.

COLLINS: Interesting, too, because, as you mentioned before, they're right across the street from each other.

HARRIS: Yes, in the same square.

COLLINS: The Christian basilica and the mosque and the architect of the mosque, I mean this is back in like 1600s, early, early 1600s, he was commissioned to build the mosque bigger and better than the Christian basilica, but could not, just made it very different with all of these minorettes (ph) and beautiful domes and semi domes. So you can see the pope is standing, I believe, probably right in the middle of the street looking at both of them. HARRIS: Yes of the square. Sure. Sure.

And then later the pope, just, you know, a few feet away, will go over to the blue mosque. And this is interesting because it was sort of a last-minute addition to the schedule. And, you know, is being viewed as a major gesture of goodwill to Muslims. But let's just sort of watch this just a bit. The pope taking this walk between the museum and ultimately to the blue mosque. Wonderful.

COLLINS: I think he's one of the first popes to go inside the blue mosque, too, is that not right?

HARRIS: Yes. Yes.

COLLINS: The first or second.

HARRIS: Yes. So we'll continue to watch these pictures and we'll bring more of this historic moment right now for the pope and his trip to Turkey just a little bit later in the NEWSROOM.

A killer whale, have you heard this story, takes her trainer for an unexpected ride to say the least and stuns the audience at SeaWorld in San Diego. Moments after this video was taped, the whale grabbed the trainer's foot and dragged him underwater twice. Eventually the whale released her grip and the trainer managed to swim away. He is recovering. Said to be in good condition. Zoologists are saying that they don't know what made the whale break from her training.

COLLINS: Not exactly a household name, but you'll be hearing a lot about Tom Vilsack. The Iowa governor officially kicking off his 2008 presidential bid this hour. And senior political correspondent Candy Crowley joining us now from Mt. Pleasant, Iowa.

And, Candy, it's kind of a different name. So maybe this name recognition will be easier than he thinks.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, exactly. I mean, this is the advantage of getting out early because this is a race, the '08 presidential race, that is going to be a free-for-all and it's going to be star studded. You have names like Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama on the Democratic side, John McCain, Rudy Giuliani on the Republican side. But there are many others who are also intending to run, which brings us to the first Democrat to officially get in the race.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CROWLEY, (voice over): Tom Vilsack is running for president. I know what you're thinking. Who is Tom Vilsack?

GOV. TOM VILSACK, (D) IOWA: Well, I tell you, I'm an underdog and I I've always had to work my way up. I started out life as an orphan. Adopted into a family that was troubled. Learned some very valuable lessons about the necessity of believing in yourself and believing in others and also what the courage to create change can actually do.

CROWLEY: I know what else you're thinking. It's November of 2006, for heaven's sakes.

VILSACK: Once you've made the decision it's time to get started, it's time to engage people in the debate.

CROWLEY: A mayor, a state senator and, in 1998, Vilsack became the first Democrat in 30 years to be elected governor of Iowa. He boasts of an eight-year tenure that focused on and improved schools and healthcare for Iowa's children.

On the eve of his announcement, Vilsack reveled in americana at a potluck supper in Mount Pleasant, Iowa, where he used to be mayor. The kind of small town that is the heartland.

Vilsack does not have the name recognition of Hillary, or the buzz of Barack Obama, or the silver tongue of John Edwards. He'll have to raise a lot of money in a crowded field populated by headliners. But at this point in the 2004 election cycle, nobody had heard of Howard Dean and Jimmy Carter was Jimmy who until he won the Iowa caucuses.

VILSACK: We are going to win this thing.

CROWLEY: An orphan adopted into a family with an alcoholic abusive mother and a troubled father, Vilsack is a believer in himself, in the ability of a community to change lives, in the possibilities of a country.

VILSACK: The idea that in this country, that somebody can start out life in an orphanage and end up having an interview as he prepares to run for president of the United States is all you need to know about America.

CROWLEY: It is at least a good enough place to start.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CROWLEY: Look for Vilsack to make energy, security his signature issue. Everything from corn-fueled energy to nuclear energy. That will be what he pounds home. The feeling here is, even if he doesn't win the nomination, he certainly can change the agenda.

Heidi.

COLLINS: All right. So he's joining this pretty large pool, as you say, about two dozen other candidates. But he's joining it early, which will give him a chance to get a little bit more fund-raising, maybe. What are his main hurdles, though, throughout this candidacy as he looks ahead, Candy?

CROWLEY: Well, I think you hit it on. And the problem is, it's all connected. If you don't have a name out there, and some sense of viability, which comes with having your name recognized, you don't get the donors. So to get out there early is a bit of a place marker for candidates. Sort of a way to say, don't sign on yet. I know you've heard all those big names, but there are other choices in this race. And then you use that time to go out there, shake hands. Vilsack is going from here in Mount Pleasant, where he was mayor and where he and his wife raised their family, he's going from here to New Hampshire, to Pennsylvania, to South Carolina, to Nevada. All those early states to shake hands. And once you get that name recognition, once you get some sense of the viability, then the donors come. So it all gets connected into what, you know, every candidate hopes will be a winning race.

COLLINS: All right. So get out first and fast, as they say.

CROWLEY: Yes, and early. Yes, absolutely.

COLLINS: Candy Crowley live from Iowa.

Thanks so much, Candy.

HARRIS: A push for peace. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice leading the way. Shuttle diplomacy in the Middle East in the NEWSROOM.

COLLINS: And back to these interesting pictures, live from Turkey now. You see Pope Benedict XVI on his third day in the country. Have one more day there. He is visiting two incredible landmarks this country is so proud of, St. Sophia's basilica and the blue mosque. Walking to and from. He will shortly be going inside, I believe, the blue mosque. And we'll have that for you, more on it in just a few minutes, right here in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Pope Benedict making an historic visit. Live pictures now. He is touring Turkey. Right now the St. Sophia museum and shortly the blue mosque. CNN's Alessio Vinci is live in Istanbul.

And, boy, Alessio, these are just amazing pictures of the pope right now. Give us -- act as our guide, if you would for a moment, and tell us exactly where the pope is and where he's headed.

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Tony.

Well, the pope is in the Higha (ph) Sophia museum. And the reason why he is visiting this place may be why perhaps this stop here is -- makes it just one of or perhaps one of the most delicate moments of his visit here in Turkey. You must understand that this Higha Sophia, this beautiful complex of domed buildings, used to be a church during the Byzantine period, during the Christian period here. And then it was turned, it was transformed into a mosque once the Atoman (ph) church, the Muslim Atoman church won (ph) over this part of the world and ruled it all the way until World War I basically. And then, eventually, a man called Hamel Atapor (ph), who is considered the father of modern Turkey, made it into a museum.

So as far as the Turkish authorities are concerned, the pope right now is touring a -- basically a museum. He is doing sight- seeing tour of one of Istanbul's perhaps most famous places. However, you can also be sure that Turks and Turkish officials will be watching every gesture, anything that could suggest perhaps that the pope would make towards perhaps a prayer or a pirus (ph) act and the reason why is because some nationalists and Muslims in this country would like to reclaim this building and make it again a mosque. Right before the pope arrived here, a group of nationalists actually chanting "Allah is great" briefly occupied this building before they were removed and some of them were arrested, as a matter of fact.

So, there are, obviously, this is a place that if you want has been contested, if you want, between Muslims and the Christians. And so any kind of gesture of the pope suggesting that he is praying would, perhaps, be interpreted in this country as the head of Christianity, as he is believed to be here, trying to reclaim, trying to reclaim this building.

Now he is not the first pope to have come to this place. Two popes have done this in the past. And, as a matter of fact, the first pope who entered here was Paul VI at the end of the 1960s, and he actually embarrassed Turkish officials, creating a diplomatic problem because actually he kneeled and he began praying. And as you must understand that any kind of prayer, both Christian and Muslim, in this particular building, is currently forbidden.

John Paul II visited this place also in 1979. He did not make a fopaw (ph) that Paul VI did. And we, obviously, believe that Benedict XVI, knowing full well the sensitivity that currently exists between the Christianity and Islam and especially over the comments that he has made in September, quoting a Byzantine emperor, that he suggested that Islam is a religion based on violence, he will not, obviously, do anything that will hurt those sensitivities.

And then after visiting this place, the pope will make a bit of history here by becoming the second pope ever to enter a mosque. He will go across the square and visit Istanbul's famous blue mosque

Tony, back to you.

HARRIS: All right. CNN's Alessio Vinci for us. Great reporting there, Alessio. Great pictures as well. We appreciate it. Thank you.

And if you'd like to see more of these pictures as they unfold live here, we want to direct you to pipeline. CNN/pipeline.com.

COLLINS: The balance of power in Iraq. Who is in charge and who's making the charge to be the next leader? A closer look ahead in the NEWSROOM.

HARRIS: Missing. Presumed dead. A fighter pilot and father of five. The Pentagon now trying to confirm what happened to Major Troy Gilbert in Iraq. Details coming up next in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Let's get you to Carol Lin now in the CNN NEWSROOM. Carol is following a developing story of an accident, a very bad accident. It sounds like there was an entrapment and then a rescue operation. Carol? CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, you know a lot about it, Tony, but let's bring you the pictures that came in to the CNN center a short time ago. This was the scene, the 57 Freeway in Orange County. This is one of the sort of major routes off of one of the big freeways. The 91 Freeway.

And what you are watching right now is a rescue operation where fire crews have managed to -- well, extricate this person that looked like -- he or she was tucked literally under the steering wheel of that pickup truck.

It was a terrible accident. No details on exactly how the accident unfolded, but just watching these crews as they were trying to pull this person out. We didn't even know, Tony, whether there was somebody underneath there. We just saw four firefighters standing in the front seat of what used to be the cab of that truck and all of a sudden we saw like a little hand moving and then we saw a head.

So, that full grown adult was literally crunched underneath the steering wheel. We didn't even know if there was a person inside at first.

HARRIS: Man. I like what you said there, what used to be the cab of that truck. All right.

LIN: Yes, pretty messy.

HARRIS: Appreciate it. Thank you, Carol.

COLLINS; Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in the Middle East today conducting diplomacy of her own. She met with the Palestinian president in Jericho, then headed to Jerusalem for a meeting with Israel's prime minister. CNN's Paula Hancocks is live from Jerusalem now. Good morning to you, Paula.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Heidi. Well, it was certainly shuttle diplomacy by Condoleezza Rice today. She probably spent just a little over three hours in all in Israel and the Palestinian territories in the West Bank.

Now, meeting President Mahmoud Abbas, she said she wanted to focus on the humanitarian situation of the Palestinian people, saying she and the Bush Administration were working very hard to try and alleve the humanitarian crisis ongoing in Gaza. Of course, hundreds of millions of dollars have been withheld from the Palestinian led government because Hamas is leading that government for some months now and it has hurt the Palestinian people there.

Also she spoke to Abbas about the opportunity of a national unity government which would mean that this amount of money would be able to be given to the Palestinian authority. And finally this political and economic boycott of the Palestinian government would be lifted. But unfortunately, Abbas said that was not going to happen at this point. The talks with Hamas were deadlocked.

Now, she also then went on to see Ehud Olmert, the Israeli prime minister and she was saying that she was very heartened by the cease- fire that has been under way in Gaza between Israelis and Palestinians since Sunday morning. Now, only occasionally has that cease-fire been broken just by Palestinian militants firing rockets into Israel.

And she also said that she was very hopeful that it would be extended to the West Bank as well. And she also said, to Ehud Olmert when she was talking to him, that she was very heartened by many things he had said in the past week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The cease-fire now needs to be consolidated by action to make certain that it is enforced. I also appreciate the statement of restraint that the Israeli government has issued concerning the cease-fire because it is, of course, quite fragile but we would like to see it consolidated and then extended.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANCOCKS: And Condoleezza Rice has gone back to Jordan now, but she said it was very important for here to make these very quick stops with both the Palestinian and the Israeli leaders because she wanted to make sure that both leaders realized how important this opportunity for peace was and this opportunity during this cease-fire -- Heidi.

COLLINS: Paula, if Abbas has admitted, as you said, that talks with Hamas are sort of dead in the water, you hate to hear anybody throw their hands up, but what are his other options?

HANCOCKS: Well, there is one option he has which is, as president of the Palestinian authority, he could actually dissolve the Palestinian government and then form his own government because the problem at the moment is that Hamas ministers and Hamas leaders would like to have some of the top government jobs in the future government.

But, of course, the reason for creating this future government is so that there are less Hamas ministers there so that the international community feels like they can do business with this particular Palestinian government. So it is conceivable that Abbas will dissolve this government, but in that case, that could lead to a lot of infighting, violence, factional fighting in Gaza which we have seen earlier this year -- Heidi.

COLLINS; Boy, doesn't sound like a very easy task, that's for sure. Paula Hancocks live from Jerusalem today. Paula, thanks.

HARRIS: Staying in Iraq to get the job done. President Bush today pledged to help Iraq's prime minister stop the escalating violence in the country. The president says a strict timetable for pulling out U.S. troops is not the answer. He says one key is to speed up the training of Iraqi security forces.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My plan and his plan is to accelerate the Iraqis' responsibility. See, here's a man who's been elected by the people. The people expect him to respond and he doesn't have the capacity to respond. And so he want to accelerate that capacity. We want him to be in the lead in taking the fight against the enemies of his own country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: The president says withdrawal of U.S. troops will happen as soon as possible but he rejected the idea of a so-called graceful exit from Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: The Maliki government expects us and wants us to provide that vital part of security, so we'll be in Iraq until the job is complete.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: The president says the success of the Maliki government is critical to success in Iraq.

Is Iraq already in a civil war? One answer from a career politician well-known for his mastery of semantics. We heard from former president Bill Clinton on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING." He appears to reject White House denials that a civil war is underway. He cites the escalating violence and sectarian divisions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There are more and more people who think that they can get what they want by shooting or throwing up these roadside bombs rather than engaging in politics. And when that happens, others take up arms in defense and it just gets worse and worse and worse. That's the normal definition of a civil war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: You can see the entire interview, that's tomorrow morning, CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING," talking with the former president as part of tomorrow's coverage of World Aids Day.

COLLINS: The war in Iraq and the course being charted in Washington. There's word that the bipartisan Iraq Study Group has hammered a consensus on future U.S. policies there.

CNN has learned the group wants a gradual reduction of U.S. troops beginning after the first of the year. President Bush has repeatedly vowed that U.S. forces will remain in Iraq, quote, until the job is complete. The group will present its findings to the president next week.

It is a country in turmoil, Iraq. Is the leadership in question, too? The country may be at a crossroads. Joining us to discuss it all is Ken Pollack of the Bookings Institution. He is the director of research at the Saban Center for Middle East Policy. Ken nice to see you again.

Let's talk about that first and foremost. Is Maliki really the person for the job? We have heard President Bush say it time and time again, the right guy for the position. Your thoughts?

KEN POLLACK, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Well, I think the problem is that we don't know whether or not Maliki is the right person for the job, but he may very well be the only person for the job. The fact of the matter is that Nuri al-Maliki was no one's first choice to be prime minister of Iraq.

He was a man who all of the Shia militias, let's call them by their rightful name, the Shia militias decided was someone they could live with. As a result, he is a very weak prime minister. He does not have a lot of room for maneuver.

There are a lot of people around Maliki who think that he wants to do the right thing, who think that he understands the problems of his country and what it would take to actually right them, but he simply doesn't have the ability to make these militia leaders who put him in charge do what they don't want to do.

COLLINS: It's interesting you say that, too, because I wonder if that's exactly what the Shias want, someone who doesn't have more power than, say, they would as a collective pull or as Muqtada al- Sadr.

POLLACK: None of the militia leaders want a strong prime minister who can force them to do something that they don't want to do. And that's true not just of Muqtada al-Sadr. That seems to be true of all of the other major militia leaders. We should remember that while we tend to focus our fire on Muqtada al-Sadr because he is very anti-American and many of his loyalists have been responsible for a lot of the killings in Iraq, he's not the only one.

Abdul Hasim Alhakeem (ph) and Askiri (ph) who run the Badr brigades, there are a whole variety of other militias inside Iraq, all of whom are important elements of this coalition government, all of whom have similar interests to Muqtada al-Sadr's.

COLLINS: So, Ken, are you saying there really would be no one else for the job? Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. I'm not sure at all if the Bush Administration would be looking in another direction, again, given the comments that the president has made so frequently about him being the right guy. Understanding they have to get behind him and are looking for ways to do that, but isn't there -- there's no other option.

POLLACK: Well, right now, given the political structure that we have in Iraq and given the parties that we have in Iraq and given the fact that the Bush Administration doesn't seem to want to impose any kind of solution on the Iraqis, it's hard to think how we would get someone necessarily better than Nuri al-Maliki.

Even if you were to force the Iraqis to somehow dissolve this particular government, given the lineup of seats in parliament, it's just not clear how you get a different person in there. I can think of some very good Iraqis who would make wonderful prime ministers. They'd still be beholden to all of these Shia militias, given the setup in the parliament at the moment.

COLLINS: Ken, what happens if Muqtada al-Sadr is, shall we say, no longer in the picture?

POLLACK: You mean if he is killed?

COLLINS: Yes.

POLLACK: I think that the first thing you have to ask is what are the circumstances of his removal. If Muqtada al-Sadr is killed in some way, he becomes a martyr for his cause. There are actually a lot of factions who have divisions within his (INAUDIBLE), within his Mehdi army. His death could actually unite them and energize them in a way we haven't seen so far.

COLLINS: Would it be worse than the situation that the United States and the Iraqi people are in now.

POLLACK: What I'm suggesting is that It think it could be. Muqtada is a figurehead of a movement but there is a lot of decentralization of authority -- a lot of his junior commanders do their own thing. If he's dead it might energize them, it might get them to act in concert, it might also radicalize them more than they are right now.

COLLINS: Quickly Ken, last question, how badly do the Iraqi people want Democracy in your mind?

POLLACK; I think there's no question that the Iraqis desperately want peace and stability. I think that what we who would call Democracy, what they call Democracy, well they're definitely parts of it they would like. In fact, when you talk to Iraqis about what they want, they wall all the pieces of Democracy. They don't like to call it Democracy. Right now, Democracy and all those other pieces, they are very much secondary to just peace and security.

COLLINS: Ken Pollack, always appreciate your insights here in the CNN NEWSROOM. Director of research at the Saban Center at Brookings Institute. Thanks so much.

POLLACK: Thank you, Heidi.

HARRIS: Still to come, an ex-spy's death in London, now traces have radiation found on British Airways jets. Investigators trying to connect all the dots here. That's in the NEWSROOM.

And Sea World skirmish, a whale puts his foot down, letting a trainer know who's the bigger boss. Scary moments underwater in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Some live pictures now, back to Turkey. We have been telling you about this, really fascinating to watch. Pope Benedict making a historic visit. He is now inside the Blue Mosque. This is one of the most prominent landmarks of Istanbul, Turkey.

As you remember, the pope is on his third day of a four-day visit there. You can see inside, at least a little bit, some of these beautiful domes and semi-domes that are so interestingly constructed. Way back in 1609, finally completed in 1616. Just beautiful.

We have been trying to listen in as to what's happening there. He's getting quite a history lesson as to what the Blue Mosque is and how it was constructed. But it is really, really fantastic. Our Alessio Vinci is there and watching all of this take place. We spoke with him a little bit earlier, try to get him back later on.

But once again you see Pope Benedict XVI touring the Blue Mosque and I am being told that Alessio Vinci is with us now. Alessio, I am imagine you have the capability to watch what I am watching. Tell us what you see. Unfortunately ...

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Heidi, a historical moment here in Istanbul tonight. Pope Benedict XVI becoming only the second pope in history to have walked into a Muslim house of prayer. Pope Benedict is now in the Blue Mosque in Istanbul.

As you can see, and right before this moment you just missed it, as is customary in Islamic tradition, the pope took off his shoes and has been touring this mosque by the great Mufti (ph) of Istanbul. This is a powerful picture being broadcast throughout Turkey and throughout the Middle East.

As you know, the pope here is in Turkey, also on a mending fences mission with the Muslims, and Islam in general after he made those controversial remarks back in September, quoting a medieval emperor when he suggested that Islam is a religion based on violence. So this stopover at the Blue Mosque was hastily added to the schedule of the pope because the pope said he is on a mission of reconciliation, of opening a dialogue with Islam and therefore, he felt it was very important for him to make this gesture, a gesture that will most likely replace those pictures of burning effigies of the pope that were broadcast throughout the Middle East back in September.

The pope here is entertaining himself with the great Mufti (ph) who is probably explaining to him a little bit of the history of this building. Earlier today I told you about this great church that was transformed into a mosque, now into a museum. This mosque was built by the Sultan Ahmed who wanted to show that Islamic art was even better and greater than Christianity and, therefore, built this beautiful mosque which I believe is either the only one or one of the few which has six minimumerette. So, it is definitely one of Islam's most important places of worship.

And Pope Benedict this evening here in Istanbul, becoming only the second pope -- you may remember that his predecessor, John Paul II, made history basically by becoming the first pope to visit a mosque. It was in 2001, in Syria, in Damascus. The two men, Pope Benedict and the great Mufti (ph) of Istanbul will exchange gifts in a few moments. We understand the pope will offer a mosaic showing a dog, while the great Mufti (ph) will offer him a small statue looking like a dog. So basically the two men exchanging what is known around the world as a symbol of peace. Back to you, Heidi.

COLLINS: It is just fantastic, a wonderful pictures here in a moment of silence, as they stand right next to each other inside the blue mosque. Alessio, I'm not sure if you can still hear me, but curious to know, I think that the way that the Blue Mosque got its name is because of these fantastic 17th century tiles that I think we saw just a little bit of on the top of one of the domes.

VINCI: That is correct. You must understand that this -- this mosque was built by the Sultan Ahmed who basically wanted to compete in some terms, if you want, with the masons of Christianity who had built just across the street that (INAUDIBLE) then-church, then- mosque, and now a museum. And so therefore, he wanted to make sure that Islamic art and Islamic manufacturers were just as great or even greater than those who built the church that was then transformed into a mosque. So there was a bit of competition there after the Ottoman turks took over Istanbul and then created the Ottoman empire.

COLLINS: All right, Alessio Vinci coming to us from Turkey there, and looking at the same pictures we are of Pope Benedict XVI inside the blue mosque in Istanbul.

HARRIS: And this just in to CNN. Boy, a bizarre story just getting even more strange. The Associated Press is reporting that an aide to former Russian Prime Minister Igor Gaydar is saying that doctors treating the former Russian prime minister are reporting that he has been poisoned. And as you know, we have been following the story of the polonium-210 poisoning death of former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko. That investigation taking a strange new twist yesterday and continuing today, with the finding of very low traces of radioactivity were found on British Airways Jets. Now the trace amounts found on those jets not thought to pose a real threat to passengers who may have been traveling on those planes in question. But British Airways is now working to identify and inform all of those passengers.

But this news just adding to the mystery here, coming from the Associated Press, an aide to former Russian prime minister Yegor Gaidar are saying that doctors treating the former prime minister are reporting that he has been poisoned. We will continue to follow developments on this story and bring the latest as we get it.

COLLINS: Want to bring you back to the United States now. The weather getting wicked in Wichita and a lot of other cities across the Midwest as well. Cold blasts coming up in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com