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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Sources Close To Bipartisan Iraq Study Group Confirm Recommendations Are Expected To Call For Gradual U.S. Troop Pullback; Radical Islamists In Iraq Refusing To Rejoin Iraqi Government; Congress Divided Over Iraq; Some Groups Argue That Raising Minimum Wage Is Job Killer; Bennie Thompson Interview; Andrew Young Interview
Aired November 30, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, the White House says President Bush could change his Iraq policy within weeks, but the president says our troops in Iraq must complete their job.
We'll have coverage from around the world.
And the federal government has lost files on more than 100,000 people applying for American citizenship. But those officials, nonetheless, gave citizenship to as many as 30,000 of those people, including a suspected radical Islamist terrorist.
We'll have that special report and a great deal more, straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Thursday, November 30th.
Live from CNN Center in Atlanta, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
President Bush today declared there can be no such thing as a "graceful exit" from Iraq. President Bush again insisted the United States must remain in Iraq until the job is done, as he put it. And he rejected any timetable for a withdrawal.
The president's remarks come just days before the Iraq Study Group is to publish proposals on U.S. strategy. That group is likely to recommend that U.S. troops be shifted from combat operations to a support role for Iraqi forces.
Elaine Quijano tonight reports from the White House on the president's determination to accept nothing less than victory in Iraq.
Nic Robertson reports tonight from Baghdad on the increasing weakness of Prime Minister al-Maliki's government.
And Andrea Koppel reports from Capitol Hill tonight on congressional reaction to these latest developments.
We turn to Elaine Quijano at the White House -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, three sources close to the bipartisan Iraq Study Group have confirmed to CNN that the recommendations next week are expected to include a call for a gradual U.S. troop pullback from Iraq but no specific timetable.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO (voice-over): After a summit in Jordan with Iraqi's prime minister, President Bush returned to Washington, preparing to hear next week from the bipartisan Iraq Study Group on its recommendations for improving the situation in Iraq. The group, led by former Democratic congressman Lee Hamilton and former secretary of state James Baker, a Republican began its work nearly nine months ago. Sources close to the group say that 10 members sidestepped the thorny issue of setting a definite timetable for U.S. troop withdrawals.
Instead, a source close to the deliberations says the consensus view is to recommend a U.S. troop reduction described as gradual but meaningful, with the reduction to begin relatively early next year. The group is also expected to advise the president to urge Maliki to meet certain goals to reduce the violence so U.S. forces can eventually come home. And the panel wants the U.S. to focus more on training Iraqi troops and less on combat.
Ahead of the report, President Bush, in Jordan, sought to dispel the notion U.S. troops would be pulled out prematurely.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know there's a lot of speculation that these reports in Washington mean there's going to be some kind of graceful exit out of Iraq. We're going to stay in Iraq to get the job done, so long as the government wants us there.
QUIJANO: The Bush administration has downplayed any findings by the Baker-Hamilton commission, noting that the White House is conducting its own reviews. And analysts say any expectations that the panel will produce an Iraq panacea are mistaken.
KENNETH POLLACK, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: It was never likely that the Iraq Study Group was going to come up with novel solutions to the problems of Iraq. Quite frankly, we know what the different alternatives are in Iraq, and really there aren't any solutions. There are just choices.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO: As for when President Bush might make decisions on his Iraq policy, his national security adviser today, Stephen Hadley, said aboard Air Force One that it would likely be weeks, not months. Also adding that it would happen when the president was "comfortable" -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much.
Elaine Quijano at the White House.
The Iraqi prime minister today said Iraq will be ready to take command of its security forces by the middle of next year. That could allow our troops to begin withdrawal from combat operations, a major proposal of the Iraq Study Group.
Jamie McIntyre reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: So far, the few details that have leaked out of the Iraq Study Group would seem to suggest no drastic change in strategy is coming.
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Well, I think the truth is we're all talking about withdrawal. The question is whether that withdrawal will be based upon security considerations or based upon domestic politics here in the United States.
MCINTYRE: A gradual pullout or pullback of U.S. troops with no set timeline and emphasizing training Iraqis over conducting combat operations sounds very similar to what U.S. commanders advocate.
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, U.S. CENTRAL COMMANDER: I think it's very, very clear that we've got to do more to speed the transition, to get the Iraqis in the front because the Iraqis, being in the front, is the key to victory.
MCINTYRE: But the panel does seem to favor a subtle but important shift, according to sources, essentially putting the Iraqis on notice the U.S. commitment is not open-ended by recommending gradual but meaningful troop reductions beginning relatively early next year and moving U.S. troops off the front lines, out of the bull's eye, as one official put it. In another page from the Pentagon's current plan, it will also call for setting clear benchmarks for Iraq to meet.
GEN. PETER PACE, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: How much of the Iraqi armed forces are under the command and control of the Iraqi leadership? How much of the country has been turned over to provincial leadership? These are all things that we can -- we can judge and measure.
MCINTYRE: Although many of the recommendations may mirror current policy, some analysts argue they also reflect a more sober reality, that Iraq's problems can't be solved by military force.
JOE CIRINCIONE, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: Iraq is a failure on so many levels it's hard to count. Clearly it's a military failure. There is no military victory possible. The consensus is clear on that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: The Pentagon has yet to get any inside briefings on what the full report will say when it's released next week. But Lou, U.S. military commanders are already drawing up their own options so they'll be ready to counter any suggestions that they think are unwise -- Lou.
DOBBS: Is there -- give us some sense of what the expectation there in the Pentagon might be amongst those with whom you've spoken about the Iraq Study Group.
MCINTYRE: Well, you know, the expectations have always been fairly low. As everyone's pointed out, the options are pretty obvious, and none of them look that good. But -- and the White House has said that it is not going to automatically implement this. It will be a plan, but not necessarily a blueprint for the future.
So I'd have to say there's still a wait-and-see attitude here. But as I said, the U.S. commanders are sort of preparing their own options, so they'll be ready to get in there and mix it up as the president has to decide which recommendations to accept and which ones not to.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you.
Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon.
Insurgents in Iraq have killed three more of our soldiers. Two soldiers were killed in separate attacks in Baghdad. A third was killed northwest of the Iraqi capital.
Sixty-seven of our troops have been killed so far this month in Iraq, 2,887 of our troops have been killed since the war began -- 21,921 of our troops wounded, 9,847 of them so seriously they could not return to duty.
Police in Baghdad have found the bodies of 25 more Iraqis, all apparent victims of sectarian murders. Dozens of bodies found dumped in the Iraqi capital city each and every day.
Radical Islamists in Iraq tonight are refusing to rejoin the Iraqi government after they walked out of Prime Minister al-Maliki's administration. Their walkout in protest of Maliki's meeting with President Bush.
The radical Islamists are loyal to Muqtada al-Sadr, a strongly anti-American cleric. Al Sadr is now trying to expand his revolt against the Iraqi government.
Nic Robertson reports from Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Arriving back in Baghdad from his meeting with President Bush, Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki is walking into trouble. His government is faltering. His parliament divided. The situation is worse than when he left two days ago.
His meeting with President Bush and neighboring Jordan was supposed to bolster his power. It appears to have had the reverse effect.
In Maliki's absence, a parliamentary revolt led by firebrand Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who demands a date for U.S. troop withdrawal, is gathering momentum. Sunnis and others are joining what appears to be the first big Sunni-Shia political alliance, a striking development in Iraq's sectarian politics.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be quite a thing if parties inside the parliament, in order to make a bloc, to stand against many things, not only the withdrawal.
ROBERTSON: Motlak (ph) has often been the voice of dissent in the parliament. He says the deal has been in the works for months and includes parties inside and outside the government.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This role, we believe, is going to be the alternative for what is going on now.
ROBERTSON: Iraqis did watch Maliki's meeting with Bush. Expectations it could halt what many here fear is a civil war were low. It didn't stop people hoping. Sunnis and Shias were united in their disappointment.
"We don't see any solution from the Bush-Maliki meeting," Sunni Ali says. "Iraqis will reap nothing from such meetings."
"These are words without deeds," says Shiite Mohammed. "We want deeds. Bush and America have done nothing for us."
Maliki's first stop when he got back, a news conference. His first topic, America is changing tactics but still supports us. When questioned about the revolt, he called for Sadr to back down.
AL-MALIKI (through translator): They should be committed. We hope they reconsider.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON: In the six months since he's been prime minister, Nuri al-Maliki has never been so embattled. His leadership has been questioned in a White House memo, despite President Bush's assurances. And now his ability to run the country seems to be faltering because he's losing his grip over the very people he needs to help him run it -- Lou.
DOBBS: Nic, thank you.
Nic Robertson from Baghdad.
The head of military intelligence for Central Command, Brigadier General John Custer, today said the sectarian violence in Iraq could last for generations. But General Custer tells CNN he believes Muqtada al-Sadr's decision to boycott the Iraqi government could well backfire on his movement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. JOHN CUSTER, U.S. ARMY: He faces quite a strain there because the network of patronage that he acquires from that is a great deal of his power. So we question how long he can do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP) DOBBS: General Custer said Iran plays a significant role in Iraq, saying Iran now controls part of al-Sadr's terrorist organization.
As the Iraq Study Group prepares to publish its report, members of Congress are as divided as ever on the issue of Iraq. Lawmakers are offering their own competing proposals on what the United States should do next.
Andrea Koppel reports from Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Members of the bipartisan Iraq Study Group may have reached consensus on their recommendations, but on Capitol Hill, the early word from lawmakers is decidedly mixed and not falling along party lines.
SEN. CHRISTOPHER DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: Well, they deserve a great deal of credit.
KOPPEL: Connecticut's Chris Dodd is a top Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee and says he likes what he's hearing.
DODD: The idea that we should begin withdrawals or a redeployment of forces, as well as calling upon the United States government to start dealing with elements in the region such as Syria and Iran, so that we can talk about some regional context to come out of this situation with a success in Iraq and also get our troops home, it sounds to me like they're heading in the right direction.
KOPPEL: But Texas Republican John Cornyn says instead of looking to withdraw U.S. forces early next year, the U.S. should send in an additional 20,000 to 50,000 troops.
CORNYN: I think it's going to take a temporary, not an open- ended commitment, but a temporary commitment to surge and show that we're serious about securing Baghdad and let the political institutions work out their differences.
KOPPEL: While another Democrat, Wisconsin's Russ Feingold, says the group's decision not to recommend a time line to redeploy U.S. troops is troubling. In a statement, Feingold explained: "We must redeploy from Iraq so that we can refocus on what must be our top national security priority -- the threat posed by terrorist networks operating around the world."
Democrat Joe Biden of Delaware, the incoming chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, supports partitioning Iraq and says he's concerned the Iraq Study Group may miss the most important point -- the need for a strategy to build a sustainable political settlement in Iraq, bringing the neighbors in and starting to get our troops out are necessary, but not sufficient.
(END VIDEOTAPE) KOPPEL: One clearly disappointed Republican Senate aide summed it up like this to CNN. He said, "This isn't the kind of original thinking that one would have expected after such a long period of deliberation from a group like this."
Lou.
DOBBS: Andrea, thank you very much.
Andrea Koppel reporting from Capitol Hill.
The Bush administration tonight making new efforts to end the conflict between Israel and Palestinians. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice today met with Israeli and Palestinian leaders. The secretary met first with the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, in the West Bank. Afterwards, she held talks with Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert in Jerusalem.
Rice praised both leaders for agreeing to a cease-fire in Gaza.
Coming up next, bungling officials. Federal officials lose files of more than 100,000 people applying for American citizenship. What did they do? Well, they give citizenship to tens of thousands of those people, even though they have absolutely no background information on them.
We'll have that special report.
And the federal government highlighting the dangers of methamphetamine, but it does absolutely nothing to stop the flow of drugs across our border with Mexico, the source of most of the meth in this country.
Methamphetamine day, broken borders day. Stay with us on that.
And members of Congress allow the minimum wage to fall to its lowest real value in half a century as they award themselves, of course, generous pay raises. What is going on?
We'll have a special report next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A stunning new threat to our national security tonight. As many as 30,000 people have been granted American citizenship even though their background files were lost by the federal government. And while our borders remain wide open, the U.S. Justice Department today put its focus on methamphetamine use.
Nearly all of the meth sold in this country is now produced in Mexico and smuggled across our wide open border with Mexico. No mention of that by the U.S. Justice Department.
Lisa Sylvester tonight reports on the tens of thousands of those lost immigration files.
And Casey Wian reports on the chronic drug smuggling at our border with Mexico.
We turn first to Lisa Sylvester in Washington -- Lisa.
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services has been citizen applications even without having all background information available. Thousands of applicants' primary files have simply been lost.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER (voice-over): In 2002, U.S. immigration officials granted citizenship to a man even though they could not find his background file. His application was stamped "approved." It was discovered later he had ties to the radical Islamist terrorist group Hezbollah.
Now a new GAO report says U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services may have given American citizenship to as many as 30,000 people whose background files were also missing.
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: It really alarms me that the agency did not have the background information on these individuals. That means that individuals who may have connections to terrorist groups were awarded citizenship without a thorough review of the information in their files.
SYLVESTER: Terrorists, criminals or people who simply were not eligible could have made their way through this gaping hole. The problem is U.S. CIS still relies on a paper system. The GAO found the immigration agency has lost track of more than 111,000 files.
Technology is not the only issue. Critics charge the agency pressures its employees to reduce backlogs and meet quotas instead of focusing on the quality of the screening.
ROSEMARY JENKS, NUBERSUSA: All the adjudicators at USCIS were given $500 cash bonuses if they met their quotas, and each office was given money from headquarters to have a party because they had allegedly succeeded with backlog elimination by meeting their quotas.
A USCIS spokesman responded, saying the agency has made changes. "We don't cut corners," they say. "Every case has national background checks done for that case. We never grant a benefit to anyone until all the national security background checks have come back."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: USCIS still has a lot of problems with its national file tracking system. In the San Diego district office, for example, one in five files was not in the proper place. There have even been reports of staffers taking these files home -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, that's a wonderful, warm statement from them. I have just one question. How could they possibly give citizenship to 30,000 people without their background information?
SYLVESTER: You know, Lou, that's a very good question. They say that they have processed these applications and they've gone through with all the requisite background checks. What they're doing is essentially a partial background check, but not the full background check in using those primary files, at least in the case with those 30,000 individuals -- Lou.
DOBBS: Inventive, even by government standards.
Thank you very much.
Lisa Sylvester.
Most of the methamphetamine used in this country comes across our unprotected border with Mexico. Meth production labs moved to Mexico. It is far easier to import the raw ingredients, mostly from communist China, to produce the drug and then smuggle it across that border into the United States. But today the U.S. Justice Department chose to focus on making the American public aware of the dangers of meth.
Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From a California school...
JAVIER PENA, U.S. DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMIN.: It's one of the most deadliest drugs that there is out there, methamphetamine.
WIAN: ... to Iowa's state capital...
While we can't declare victory...
WIAN: ... to Washington, D.C., hundreds of federal officials fanned out across the country to highlight the dangers of meth.
ROBERT MCDONNELL, VIRGINIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: This says, "Not even once." It's a black armband to kind of remind kids, don't ever start.
WIAN: Rural southern California used to be the meth production capital of the United States. But local and federal authorities cracked down by busting so-called super labs and restricting the sale of the cold medicine pseudoephedrine, a key ingredient in meth.
Nationwide, busts of so-called super labs have dropped from 245 in 2001 to just 37 last year. But Mexico has more than picked up the slack. Now producing at least 80 percent of the methamphetamine used in the United States.
ALBERTO GONZALES, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: We've had numerous discussions with the Mexican officials about -- about the importation of meth through our southern border. But you also have to remember, there's a reason why that's happening. It's because we have a huge demand problem in this country.
WIAN: While meth use nationally is down slightly compared to last year, it's still up nearly 70 percent since 2000, and there's barely been a dent in Mexican meth trafficking organizations thanks to abundant raw materials coming from China and elsewhere in Asia. Last year, Mexican authorities found five million pseudoephedrine tablets hidden in a shipment of ceiling fans from China, according to the "Los Angeles Times."
It would have been enough to make three tons of meth. That's equal all the meth seized last year at the U.S.-Mexican border in a single shipment from China.
Drug trafficking organizations remain in control of many Mexican border regions. The U.S. border remains porous, and there's little evidence that either situation is about to change.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Attorney General Gonzales will travel to Mexico for tomorrow's inauguration of new president Felipe Calderon. He says he will discuss the issue of meth trafficking with the new Mexican president if the opportunity arises -- Lou.
DOBBS: If the opportunity arises. They just had the federal government spend all day across the country trying to raise awareness of methamphetamines, and the federal government does not note that that it is brought in across our wide open border with Mexico?
WIAN: Well, to be fair, they did note at several of these events that most of the meth does come from Mexico. But your point is well taken, that no one has done this kind of an effort to raise awareness for how insecure our borders are.
They talk about the demand side of the equation. There's very little being done to address the supply side of the equation, which it seems would be easy to do by just simply securing the border -- Lou.
DOBBS: You almost expect to hear a federal official from somewhere -- and he is quite right, there is a demand for meth. And that, of course, is, if you will, the root of the problem, as it is with all drugs.
But is he now suggesting, I guess any one of these federal officials, that there's a demand for terrorists as well? Is that how we'll explain the wide open border on the next iteration?
I hope not.
Casey, thanks.
WIAN: Well, fortunately we didn't hear him say that -- Lou.
DOBBS: Exactly. Although one -- I better not say it.
WIAN: Yes. DOBBS: Thanks very much.
WIAN: OK.
DOBBS: Casey Wian.
Appreciate it.
That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. Do you think it's possible to stop narcotics traffic in the United States without controlling our border with Mexico? Yes or no?
Please cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have those results coming up here later.
A former homeland security official pleading guilty to bribery charges today in an immigration fraud scheme, of all things. Robert Scowfield (ph), who supervised Immigration and Custom Enforcement's visa and citizenship program was charged with helping more than 100 unqualified immigrants obtain naturalization certificates. Investigators said that Scowfield took more than $8 million in bribes over 10 years. He will be sentenced in February.
Coming up next, Congress has given itself nine pay raises since 1997, but it hasn't raised the federal minimum wage once during that period. Has the political climate changed enough for Congress to give someone else a raise? We'll find out.
Stay with us.
And the incoming chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee telling a company (ph) not to weed out illegal alien workers? Congressman Bennie Thompson, he will chair that committee, and he's our guest here tonight.
And the intrigue surrounding the poisoning death of a former Russian spy, it is growing by the day and it's getting worse. We'll have the latest for you.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Congress has raised its pay nine times since 1997. In that same period, the federal minimum wage hasn't risen one cent. And at $5.15 an hour, its real purchasing value has fallen to the lowest level in a half century.
America's working families badly suffering from wage erosion at the lowest wage scale. Some businesses, some economists, some business organizations and lobbying groups argue that raising the minimum wage is a job killer.
They're full of it.
Christine Romans reports. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A year working this job keeps a family of three below the poverty line. The minimum wage has now fallen to the lowest value in real terms in 50 years.
There is overwhelming popular support for raising workers' pay. Pew Research Center found 83 percent in favor. A majority of states have already done so themselves. And Democrats are promising federal action quickly.
SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: ... that anyone that works 40 hours a week, 52 weeks of the year, in the richest country in the world should not live in poverty.
ROMANS: But raising the federal minimum wage is unpopular with restaurant and retail trade groups.
ROB GREEN, NATIONAL RETAIL FEDERATION: What they're proposing up in Congress is a $2.10 increase, which is a 40 percent increase in the entry level wage. And that can have a dramatic impact on a small business.
ROMANS: He's calling higher wages a job killer that could mean higher prices for consumers.
GREEN: Restaurants might raise menu prices, impacting the bottom line for consumers. Retailers might employ fewer salespeople.
ROMANS: But a growing number of economists have rejected the job killer theory. A study by the Fiscal Policy Institute found small businesses actually added jobs in states that raised the minimum wage.
JAMES PARROTT, FISCAL POLICY INST.: Turnover goes down. If you increase a worker's wage, their morale improves. They've become more productive, more likely to stay on the job that has productivity advantages and cost savings for employers.
ROMANS: Separate studies in Oregon and New Mexico found similar results.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Here in Georgia, the minimum wage is still $5.15 an hour. Raising that federal minimum would immediately lift the pay of more than 200,000 people here and likely mean higher wages for another 600,000 low-wage workers, Lou.
DOBBS: So why in the world aren't they doing it?
ROMANS: They're not doing it yet but Congress is looking like they're going to do it soon.
DOBBS: Well, I get a kick out of it. You have to find some humor in these things. There is no question, whatsoever, certainly in my mind, nor do I think there's any disputation in the fact surrounding the fact that minimum wage actually helps economies in the states that have done it.
But this sort of rah-rah stuff that the Democrats are talking about with this raising the minimum wage. In point of fact, the American people so disgusted with the fact that the minimum wage hadn't been raised for 10 years -- states have done it on their own. There are now 29 states and the District of Columbia that have raised the minimum wage. Applying the federal wage would be even higher.
ROMANS: And the six states just did it in November and in September, the indexed it to inflation. So they even went further. They said, you know, we're so sort of fed up with Washington, we're going to make sure that we're not even having this debate down the road. We're going to start indexing with inflation so that the minimum wage keeps rising.
DOBBS: Why would anyone be fed up with Washington, D.C.? That's just utterly beyond me. Christine, thank you very much.
ROMANS: You're welcome.
DOBBS: Time now for some of your thoughts.
Jim in Illinois: "Dear Lou, unfortunately it seems the Iraqis." I'm sorry, this is a wonderful thought that we're sharing with you here tonight. "Unfortunately it appears the Iraqis picked up American democracy too well. They elected a do-nothing government on their very first try."
And Glenn in California: "If the world's greatest superpower can't control its own borders, why should that superpower, us, demand that Syria control its borders?"
And from Michael in California: "Al-Maliki is the right guy for Iraq sounds a lot like Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."
Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. We'll have more of them here later. Each of you whose e-mail is read on this broadcast receives a copy of my new book "War on the Middle Class."
Up next, another snub to workers in this country. The incoming chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee siding with illegal aliens over the issue of mismatched Social Security numbers.
Also, the latest on the Iraq Study Group's recommendations. Will it include an exit for our troops in Iraq? And the mystery surrounding the death of a former KGB colonel and Russian spy deepens. The investigation widens, the prospects darken. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The top news tonight, President Bush returned to Washington after a summit meeting with Iraqi Prime Minister al-Maliki in Jordan. President Bush said talk of a graceful exit from Iraq is simply unrealistic and he said our troops must complete the job.
The Iraq Study Group will deliver its report next week. It's likely to recommend that American troops be withdrawn gradually from combat operations. The group is likely to suggest those troops should be used to help train Iraqi forces instead.
And the federal government lost files of more than 100,000 people applying for American citizenship, but federal officials still gave their citizenship to as many as 30,000 of those people, including a suspected radical Islamist terrorist.
In other important news, the mystery is deepening following the poisoning assassination of a former Russian spy. A former Russian prime minister fell ill the day after Alexander Litvinenko died. Doctors in Moscow think now he was also poisoned. Traces of radiation have been confirmed on two British Airways jetliners and signs of radiation have now turned up at 12 sites in the city of London.
Two Russian aircraft are also being examined. British officials won't say what role those aircraft may have played in all of this. But Russian contacts who met with Litvinenko the day before he fell ill had traveled from Moscow to London.
Snowstorms that blasted the Northwest and the Rockies now bringing the first significant ice and snow to the Southern Plains and Midwest. It's been tough going in New Mexico, where the winter weather forced the closure of interstate 40. That blizzard shut down many schools and businesses. Driving conditions also hazardous in west Texas, where numerous accidents were reported. Winter storm warnings are in effect tonight from Texas to Illinois, through tomorrow.
Cintas, the nation's largest uniform supplier decided to proactively check mismatched Social Security numbers. The company told its employees that if their Social Security numbers were not valid, those employees would be given time to clear up any discrepancy or be terminated. Congressman Bennie Thompson is the incoming chairman of the Homeland Security Committee. He took issue with Cintas's actions and he joins us tonight from Jackson, Mississippi.
Good to have you with us, Congressman.
REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D), MISSISSIPPI: Thank you for having me, Lou.
DOBBS: And congratulations on moving to the chair of one of the country's most important committees. The idea that you were complaining about these -- the company taking action on this and writing a very strong letter -- what was the point of that, if I may ask?
THOMPSON: Well, I think the point is the Department of Homeland Security has put out a proposed rule addressing that very issue. They have been soliciting thousands of responses all over the country so that we can come up with one plan to address that particular issue. The department has not come forward with that particular rule.
So what we could conceivably have is every company interpreting its own rule, rather than the department putting forth a rule. That's why we more or less put this company on notice that DHS is about to do this and it's not in your best interest to put these employees on notice on a rule that may or may not exist.
DOBBS: Well, let me ask you something, congressman. The fact is that if every employer in this country followed the mismatched policy used by Cintas and lots of other corporations and employers in this country, we wouldn't have nearly the problem we've got with illegal immigration, do you think?
THOMPSON: There's no question about it. The problem we've found is that we don't have a specific rule. The mismatch rule does not give a time limit in terms of when an employer has to get this information back.
So what we want to do with this DH rule, Lou, is to have one rule that all employers abide by. One of the problems we found out is that sometimes it's a name change, sometimes it's a marriage license document that's invalid. Sometimes the employer makes a mistake on a Social Security number.
DOBBS: Sure.
THOMPSON: So we need to give some time for that to happen. Right now, we don't have rules that set specifics on that. Once we get DHS to come forward with the specific rule now that they've put out, received comments from businesses all over the country, I'm prepared to go forward with whatever they come with.
It was just premature on Cintas's part to move in this direction. And that's why, as a ranking Democrat, incoming chairman on homeland security, I wanted to let them know that I had been contacted. It's an issue and they shouldn't move forward.
DOBBS: Congressman, why, then, did you say in your letter to them on November 2nd, you were concerned about discrimination rather than homeland security and rather than any reference to any of those rule changes that you mentioned or interpretation. You say very clearly that you're extremely concerned about any potential discriminatory actions targeting this community, referring to...
THOMPSON: That's right.
DOBBS: I'm sorry?
THOMPSON: Well, my letter speaks to the employees of the company that were being -- received these notices. And clearly, if you check with the company, they'll verify that many of these employees who received these notices were immigrants.
DOBBS: Yes. They're immigrants -- you said immigrants, not illegal immigrants?
THOMPSON: That's right.
DOBBS: Right. And the fact is that they gave over 60 days for anyone to take care of this problem. As you yourself acknowledge, that if every employer in the country was following the same diligent, rigorous policy in terms of those it employed, we wouldn't have a problem. So why in terms of solving a problem, should we get hung up on what the Department of Homeland Security, which, as you know, is basically just a joke anyway, is doing with a rule?
THOMPSON: Well, after January, you'll see a big difference. What you'll see is a department that gives timetables for employers to come forth with the employees. It would be fair to the employees who get this information. If they don't get the information back, Lou, then obviously they're in violation, and they should suffer the consequences. I have no problems with it. But right now, we don't have any rules that address this. Hopefully, we'll have them.
DOBBS: Congressman, you know, we look forward to you taking over the Homeland Security Committee and delivering on that statement, that it's going to be a lot better.
Will you recommend that all employers follow a rational policy and make certain that they are matching those Social Security numbers? Will you also tell this government, this executive branch, this Bush administration that they're to remove the executive order prohibiting a comparison of Internal Revenue Service numbers with Social Security numbers and end this absurd ignorance of our laws?
THOMPSON: Well, you have my word, Lou, that we will have a rule that addresses the no mismatch requirement that all employers will be able to follow. Employees will know how long they have to get the information. And if they don't provide the information to the employer, then they will not retain their employment, and the proper agencies will be notified of such.
DOBBS: Congressman, we thank you for being here. Appreciate it.
THOMPSON: Thank you.
DOBBS: Still ahead, more of our troops are going to Baghdad to try to stop what is escalating violence. General David Grange joins us. President Bush facing tough policy choices in Iraq. Former U.N. Ambassador Andrew Young will be here. We'll be discussing Iraq and a whole lot more. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: U.S. strategy in Iraq to some appears to be on the verge of major change. The Iraq Study Group is likely to recommend our troops be shifted from combat operations to a support role for Iraqi forces. But this week, the United States is sending more troops to Baghdad, in order to fight insurgents and terrorists.
Joining me now, General David Grange. General Grange, what do you think of this idea to move troops within Iraq and reposition them in Baghdad?
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, two critical areas in Iraq. One is the Baghdad metropolitan area, and the other is the Anbar province. And in Baghdad, you have a very tough situation where someone has to provide security. The people are going to support whoever provides that security. The Iraqi army and police are not doing it, so they're sending American GIs in there.
DOBBS: You know, you and I have -- and indeed the nation -- have been talking about, wrestling with the issue of Iraq. We've talked about a general staff, the entire U.S. military, the command structure sitting primarily in the Pentagon, not delivering victory, calling for patience. We have the Pentagon right now, apparently, scrambling to come up with some sort of riposte to whatever the Iraq Study Group comes up with.
What are we dealing with here as we approach the fourth anniversary of this war's beginning?
GRANGE: Well, I think the biggest problem, Lou, is that the nation is not at war. You have the United States Army at war, you have the Marine Corps at war and the rest of the government agencies, and everyone else is not at war. And you can't win a war unless you have unity of effort. And that's the problem.
DOBBS: You know, General Grange, I think that is about as eloquently and accurately as anybody has put that. So what do we do? And how can a nation of conscience, a democratic nation of conscience, ask, as we do and as we have institutionalized, a military to go to war in which there is not a shared burden, a shared sacrifice? And in the instance of Iraq, in my judgment, as we have discussed before, certainly no clear strategy for victory?
GRANGE: Well, as history proves, without that unified effort, we have not won in the past. We have either had a tie or we've lost. And so, that has to be done. And I just -- it bothers me considerably that we're not going to put forth the effort, besides a new strategy -- I mean, the strategy's got to be to take down bad guys, like al- Sadr and others that are keeping the Iraqi government from being successful, and get on with the mission and accomplish it. Without a timeline; otherwise, if you use a time, time becomes the mission instead of the effects you're trying to achieve becoming the mission, and you won't win that way.
And so, now is the time not to rob Peter to pay Paul through other places in Iraq, to reinforce Baghdad but to reinforce the entire country so you don't leave a void, you take down the important objectives and win this thing.
DOBBS: General David Grange, thanks for being here.
GRANGE: My pleasure.
DOBBS: Up next, THE SITUATION ROOM with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Lou. We're following a developing story. A new al Qaeda threat to try to cripple the computers of American stock markets and backing Web sites. We're going to have the latest from federal security officials.
Plus, blowing off Tony Blair. State Department official gets candid. We'll find out why that official says he's now ashamed of the way President Bush treats the British.
And religious politics. The evangelical leader Rick Warren takes heat over his alliance with Senator Barack Obama.
And Danny DeVito now admits to being drunk on national TV. He lets rip against President Bush as well. Jeanne Moos is on that story. All that, Lou, coming up right at the top of the hour.
DOBBS: Thank you, Wolf. A reminder now to vote in our poll. Do you believe it's possible to stop narcotics traffic in the United States without controlling our border with Mexico? Yes or no? Please cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. The results coming up here shortly.
Still ahead, outspoken civil rights leader, former U.N. Ambassador Andrew Young says the middle class has some share of the blame for the problems facing our middle class. I disagree, of course. We'll be talking about Iraq and a host of other issues when we continue. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: I'm joined now by civil rights leader, the former mayor of the city of Atlanta and ambassador to the United Nations, Andrew Young.
Good to have you with us.
ANDREW YOUNG, FMR. MAJOR OF ATLANTA: Good to see you back.
DOBBS: It's -- let me ask you first, this Iraq Study Group, people are putting great hopes in it. U.N. Secretary Kofi Annan saying we're on the verge of civil war, we've got -- the United States in particular has got to start engaging Syria and Iran.
Your thoughts?
YOUNG: Well, you've got to talk to your enemies. You either talk to them or kill them. And right now our enemies are sitting on piles of oil, and so you blow them up and you blow up your own economy. So you talk.
DOBBS: And do you believe that it could possibly be productive?
YOUNG: Well, look how long we talked to the Russians. Look how long we talked to the Chinese. We have talked our way out of a lot of wars. I'm mean, I'm -- all my lifetime, we've been talking.
DOBBS: And talking...
YOUNG: And we haven't had a major war with anybody we talked to.
DOBBS: Let me ask you this, why do you think it is that we have moved from diplomacy, active diplomacy, to preemptive military action in some cases, but in other cases, simply the idea that isolation as an art -- embargoes somehow work? YOUNG: Well, I don't know because they have never worked. And we didn't have an embargo against South Africa. We talked to South Africa. We never stopped trade with Russia. It was increases in trade. It was increases in exchange. The only places where we've failed are places like Cuba, where we didn't talk.
DOBBS: And the idea that Iraq has a solution, the president saying there will be no graceful exit, your interpretation?
YOUNG: Well, I don't -- I think he's in a mess which he created, but it's all our mess. And I don't think we can walk away. And since we're running out of time, let me just say, Kurdistan would like to have an American base. And why don't we put on there and station some troops there where they'll be welcome. Then when can at least keep some surveillance of the rest of the area.
DOBBS: Let's turn to the domestic economy. We're hearing a lot of talk about this economy being strong. We're hearing some very good evidence that it is not strong for everyone. What is your sense of the policies that are being followed in this country right now, in terms of the economy, in terms of working men and women and their families?
YOUNG: Well, I heard you say that I think the middle class deserves some of the blame. And I say that simply because they forgot that they were America's poor when I was a child. And it was Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal, it was Lyndon Johnson's Great Society, it was the G.I. Bill, it was assistance to state education. My wife got a master's degree 50 years ago for $30 a semester. You can't do that anymore.
DOBBS: No, you can't. And the fact is that...
YOUNG: We don't want to pay taxes, the taxes that we paid to support the middle class. Now they don't want to pay taxes to support the poor. And it's hurting them. Those who have moved up out of the middle class are doing very, very well because they don't have to pay -- they don't have pay to bring along other generations.
DOBBS: That's an interesting perspective. And I'm not even going to challenge you. It's yours and I'll keep mine.
YOUNG: All right.
DOBBS: The idea -- this week...
YOUNG: They voted Republican, too. And that's...
DOBBS: I'm sorry?
YOUNG: I said, they voted Republican. And that's...
DOBBS: Well, obviously a lot of folks voted Democrat in this last election.
Let's turn to the situation with Michael Richards. I talked with Jesse Jackson this week and he is very serious about entertainers, particularly black entertainers and so forth, musicians, banning this -- the n-word. What's your position?
YOUNG: You know, I think that's a symbol of the frustration of the black middle class and the black poor. Things are not getting better for us, but we use that word all the time, and use it affectionately. And that's not the problem.
The problem is the economy. And the problem is educational opportunity. And the problem is the upward mobility that I enjoyed and that you enjoyed, we can't take for granted for our grandchildren.
DOBBS: Exactly.
YOUNG: And that we agree on.
DOBBS: Absolutely.
Appreciate it. Andrew Young, good to have you here.
Still ahead, we'll have the results of our poll and a few more of your thoughts.
Stay with us.
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DOBBS: The results of our poll. Ninety-seven percent of you say you do not think it is possible to stop narcotics traffic in the United States without controlling our border with Mexico.
Let's take a look at some of your thoughts.
From Sandy in Ohio: "Lou, Senator Harry Reid had very nice things to say about people who have entered our country illegally. I didn't hear him say one nice thing about the American middle class. You know, those of us who make it possible for illegal immigrants to get food stamps and free medical care."
Eugene in California: "It's obvious, by all the foot dragging of the administration and Congress on the issues illegal immigration and border security, that our government has already decided the answer: a North American Union. Why else would our government allow the gutting of the American working class and the outsourcing of all our precious jobs?"
And Dan in Ohio: "Lou, how is it that both Democrats and Republicans care more for their parties than they do for their country? It seems to me that if our country mattered it wouldn't be so difficult for them to find ways to check illegal immigration, find a workable solution to the Iraq War, and last but not least, balance our trade."
We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. Each of you whose e-mail is read here receives a copy of my book, "War on the Middle Class." We thank you for being with us. Please join us here tomorrow.
For all of us, thanks for watching. Good night from Atlanta.
The SITUATION ROOM begins now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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