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Nancy Grace

Pants of Missing CNet Editor Found/2-Month-Old Colorado Baby Nearly Dies of Alcohol Poisoning

Aired December 05, 2006 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: She was drunk, drunk on vodka, four times the legal limit. But here`s the kicker. She`s a 2-month-old baby girl in Colorado who nearly died of alcohol poisoning. Vodka in the baby bottle. And tonight, no one`s even been arrested. Do police think the baby drove to the liquor store and ordered a pint of Ketel One?
And tonight: An Alabama mom says she was carjacked at a local 7- Eleven, her 5-year-old son in the back seat. Tonight, we learn the boy died. We also learn police say the carjack story is not holding together.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a mistake. It was an honest mistake. I had no idea that there was alcohol in the water bottle. I love my daughter to death. I would never do anything to harm her in any kind of way. Water, formula (INAUDIBLE) I don`t know what I would have done. I would have lost her. She wouldn`t respond. (INAUDIBLE) Her eyes were kind of droopy. I don`t know, she just wasn`t right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: She wouldn`t respond? I guess she wouldn`t. The baby hardly weighs 10 pounds. She`s loaded!

But first, breaking news out of the Pacific Northwest, the Portland area, that California family gone missing over Thanksgiving holidays.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Apparently, they searched all through the night for him. So I expect it`s air, ground, all possible ways.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Searchers today, when they were going down, following the footsteps down towards the drainage area in the creek, did discover an article of clothing as a pair of pants. It matches the description of the pair of pants that James Kim was believed to be wearing when he left the car. It may be an indication that he`s trying to let people know which direction that he`s gone by, leaving something behind. And I think that that would be a smart thing to do, just as long as you`re not compromising your personal safety and wellbeing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Before we take to you Colorado and the drunken baby story, I want to get the latest on this missing dad. How can a whole family just vanish into thin air? That`s seemingly what happened over the Thanksgiving holiday. Then the mom and the two children found inside their car. They had survived by burning tires for warmth. But what happened to the dad? Today, breaking news.

Jane Velez-Mitchell, what happened?

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: The news conference ending just moments ago, very significant developments in the search for 35-year-old James Kim. And he, of course, disappeared in some very treacherous terrain in Oregon. Search teams, trying to track his footprints, found a pair of pants they believe belong to James Kim, the pants they think he was wearing over his bluejeans. They do not know for sure why he took them off, although there are several theories being bandied about.

Authorities said they also discovered a second significant item, which they did not identify, but they said it required dropping someone from a line in order to retrieve it, which just gives you an idea how rugged this terrain is. It is also very, very cold out there.

One final thing. Authorities also revealed they are now using helicopters with heat sensors to search for this CNet senior editor, and they vow not to give up.

GRACE: Out to Lieutenant Gregg Hastings with the Oregon State Police. Where in relation to the car, Lieutenant, were the pants found?

LT. GREGG HASTINGS, OREGON STATE POLICE: Well, in relation to the car, probably about two to three miles. It looks like on a map that he walked about two miles or so before he started to go down over the edge and walk down the steep embankment, heavily wooded. There was snow initially. It`s been dryer down closer to the creek. But those pants were found up along that route where the footsteps were leading down.

GRACE: Lieutenant, I`m confused. I understand his wife said he left the car wearing jeans, but these are a gray pair of slacks.

HASTINGS: Well, that`s right. And we`re learning more details, too, each time that we meet with his wife, further more details. And now, as I understand it, he may have actually had a couple pairs of pants on when he left. So I know the story seems to change a little bit, but we get more details as time goes on. And then when we come across something and we try to get answers, we need to ask her questions, and she starts recalling some more details. And I know this is a pretty traumatic thing that she`s been through. We understand that that`s going to change as time goes on, as she remembers more.

GRACE: Lieutenant, another question. Last night, we believed that he was walking back along the roadway from which he had come. But now, I believe I`m understanding correctly, he had gone down toward a creek bed?

HASTINGS: Yes. He turned, according to the footsteps, down off the - - down the steep embankment to the creek bed. Why that happened, we don`t know. As has been said here today during the recent media briefing, that`s a question that we hope to get to ask him. But why, we don`t know.

GRACE: Speaking of the briefing, here is what police had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did find an article of clothing that we`re trying to determine if it does belong to Mr. Kim. We do believe it is. Another piece of -- another item that we`re in the process of trying to recover, we don`t know yet if it is related to Mr. Kim or not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t know what the significance of the pair of pants that was left at the top. You know, it could be he was leaving markers that people were searching for him, something to follow. The way we`re treating it is it gives us an indication we are in the right area, we are searching the right area to find him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to Dr. William Morrone, toxicologist and the deputy medical examiner. Doctor, considering the weather, how long can he survive?

DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, TOXICOLOGIST, DEPUTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: If it stays around 30 or 40 degrees, maybe a couple of days. If it drops into the teens, not long.

GRACE: Here is more of what police had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we know is he had tennis shoes on, bluejeans. We did find out later he did have a second pair of pants he pulled over. We think that`s the gray pants that we`re trying to determine. He had a heavy jacket on. We don`t believe he had a hat or gloves.

We are operating on the assumption he is alive. We`re not going to stop until we find him.

Search efforts will continue tonight. We have determined that it is too dangerous for our technical rescue crews to go into that gorge in the evenings, when it`s dark. They had some problems there last night. We`re bringing in another technical rescue team that will be here first light in the morning to take them back up there.

This is frustrating. I mean, we are so close. You have people who are pouring their heart and soul in here, a lot of us 18, 20 hours. It`s frustrating. Long days. So we`re not going to quit until we find him. You know, we are treating this search like we`re looking for one of our own family members. We`re not going to give up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to Lieutenant Gregg Hastings. He`s joining us. He`s with the Oregon State Police. Why would he be taking his pants off?

HASTINGS: Well, we don`t know. We`re speculating that it possibly could be he`s trying to mark the way that he`s going, in case someone was trying to find him. We know that that was the reason why he left the car in the first place, was to try to go get help. And he brought certain things with him, and it looks like some extra clothing. And some of those things, such as we think he may have had some lighters that could have been used maybe to start a fire or to draw attention to himself at night. There could be some items maybe we that might find here as we continue tonight and possibly into tomorrow, there might be other items that are left.

But as Undersheriff Anderson said, we definitely think that the searchers are in the right area. We know the clock`s ticking and we`re very concerned about that. But as we also said, no one`s given up. And the searcher we talked to today, he`s a volunteer. He got here at 10:00 o`clock last night and was out there until noon today, and that`s exactly what he said, that he does this to try to find people who are alive. And that`s what we`re...

GRACE: Lieutenant Hastings, what`s the closest indoor shelter from where that car is located?

HASTINGS: Well, there apparently is a lodge a few miles away, but it`s closed during the winter. And the closest town is, you know, several miles away. I think he thought -- Mr. Kim may have thought it was about four or five miles away, but it actually is probably closer to around 18 miles away.

GRACE: Lieutenant Hastings, were you guys searching through the night?

HASTINGS: Well, the plan is to continue through the night. They`re going to have to be careful in the drainage area because of the dangers that are presented to the searchers. And the technical rescue personnel are coming in the morning.

GRACE: OK. Out to the lines. Heather in Ohio. Hi, Heather.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love your show. I watch it every night.

GRACE: Thank you, dear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just have a question. Is there any chance that they are suspecting the wife, this could be foul play?

GRACE: I haven`t heard a word about it. What about it, Lieutenant Hastings?

HASTINGS: No, that`s the farthest thing from our minds.

GRACE: Lieutenant, how did the children survive? How did they live this long in the car?

HASTINGS: Well, the children survived -- number one, the parents kept one another and the kids warm at night. They cuddled together. They had the extra clothing because they were on a trip for the holiday season. They used that clothing. They also burned some of the tires, we know that. All five tires, including the spare, were eventually burned.

GRACE: What did they eat?

HASTINGS: They ate -- they had some candy. They had some baby food. They had some other small food items. They used berries that they found on the ground. They had some jelly, a small amount of pop, a small amount of bottled water to go with the water that they would use from the snow. That`s what they used. I understand that there is information that the mother may have actually breast fed her children. I haven`t talked to someone for that information, but that was reported.

GRACE: So they were totally out of the cell phone range, as well?

HASTINGS: Yes, there`s very poor cell phone coverage there. But they apparently tried to call several times after they got lost, according to the interview that we did with the mother. And according to our people here, there`s a cellular phone expert that was able to determine a ping on a cell tower in that area before Mrs. Kim and the kids were found, and that`s why they were focusing a lot more in that area after they learned that information.

GRACE: Got it. Very quickly, to Dr. Morrone, deputy medical examiner. Let`s take a look at the symptoms of hypothermia. He`s not wearing a hat. How much body heat is lost if your head is uncovered, quickly, Dr. Morrone?

MORRONE: The majority of your heat is lost in your head in hypothermia.

GRACE: Temperature of body...

MORRONE: Without a hat, you lose a lot of heat.

GRACE: ... drops below level required for normal metabolism. Major organs fail, constant shivering, pulse and respiration rates can decrease. Have you heard of the phenomenon of disrobing?

MORRONE: That only happens in severe and moderately severe cases, hypothermia, because they reach a point of delirium and they`re not thinking well.

GRACE: It`s paradoxical, disrobing. Why do you do that?

MORRONE: Well, like I said, they`re not thinking well. In mild hypothermia, you`re a little confused. But the worse it gets, you misinterpret your surroundings, you misinterpret your senses. And you can take off your pants because you think you`re hot and you`re really just confused.

GRACE: Or he could be leaving a trail, a la Hansel and Gretel, for authorities to find him. He has now veered off the road, very clearly. Searchers working through the night. We will bring you all developments on this missing father. The rest of the family has been found. The 35-year- old not seen except for this breaking development, the discovery of some of his clothing.

Right now, we are switching gears. Stay with me. We`re going out to Colorado. Believe it or not, a little baby 8 weeks old, loaded on vodka. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a mistake. It was an honest mistake. I had no idea that there was alcohol in the water bottle. I love my daughter to death. I would never do anything to harm her in any kind of way.

She wouldn`t respond. She was using her arms and her legs, you know, and her eyes were, like, droopy. I don`t know, she just wasn`t right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: She was drunk, all right, drunk on vodka, four times the legal limit. But here`s the kicker. The "she" involved is only 2 months old. A Colorado baby nearly died of alcohol poisoning after being rushed to the hospital. And what I don`t understand tonight is why no one has been apprehended. Again, do police believe the baby went to the liquor store and ordered a pint of Ketel One all on her own?

Out to Kevin McGlue, assistant news director, KCOL. What`s going on, Kevin?

KEVIN MCGLUE, KCOL: I`ll tell you what. It is an interesting situation. You mentioned the fact...

GRACE: Interesting?

MCGLUE: ... no arrests have been made...

GRACE: I call it child abuse.

MCGLUE: ... as of yet. And I`ll tell you what. It`s a situation where you have Colorado Springs major police squad on this case. What it sounds like they want to do is make sure that they have all of their interviews in place, make sure all the I`s are dotted, the T`s are crossed before they present their case and their findings to the district attorney`s office. They`re expecting to do that coming up early next week. But again, this is a situation...

GRACE: OK.

MCGLUE: ... as you had heard, Nancy, where she relayed the story. They know how this happened, although they have said there have been some conflicting stories.

GRACE: OK, Kevin? Kevin, let`s just cut through it. I understand there being conflicting stories on the part of the mom. What are the conflicts?

MCGLUE: You know what? The conflicting story has not been divulged by police. All they will say is they have heard different stories from that mother, aside from what you heard, where the daughter -- excuse me, the mother did show up with her daughter. They went to what was a store. And the father, boyfriend, went in. The mother and daughter sat in the car, noticed the baby was getting finicky, decided to feed her some formula, reached down, picked up a water bottle that she said she believed contained water.

GRACE: A water bottle.

MCGLUE: It did contain...

GRACE: Vodka.

MCGLUE: ... three ounces of vodka. That was poured in, mixed with the formula. The baby ingested all of that formula. About 3:30 in the morning, the mother realized this baby was unresponsive, not doing well.

GRACE: Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Wait a minute! Wait a minute! At 3:30 in the morning? Let me think about this just a moment. You`re telling me they`re out driving around in the car with the baby at 3:30 in the morning?

MCGLUE: Well, now, that again is a spot where do you not know exactly the timeline, how this has progressed. This is a family that has lived with family in the Colorado Springs area. They have known to be somewhat transient in nature, meaning they have lived out of their car before.

GRACE: Hold on. Did the baby -- was the baby out and about at 3:30 AM? Yes, no.

MCGLUE: Do not know. Do not know.

GRACE: OK. I want to go out to Pat Brown, criminal profiler. Pat, an accident? Feeding the baby, what would it be, three ounces of vodka? The baby`s only 10 pounds.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, Nancy, I think it is possible it`s an accident, but the question is under what circumstances. It doesn`t look like she mixed a little bit of alcohol in with the regular formula and water in order to calm her baby down. Some mothers do that, you know, just give them a little bit, calm them down and accidentally overdose.

GRACE: A little bit?

BROWN: Well, this is obviously not that, Nancy, because she didn`t have any other water, so she was grabbing for something. Now, she either decided to give her child all alcohol because she knew it was alcohol or she really did accidentally grab a bottle she didn`t know had vodka in it. Now, here is what I think happened, Nancy. Like you say, they`re out in the middle of the night, maybe they`re a little bit, you know, drunk themselves.

GRACE: Let`s go out to Cindy in Florida. Hi, Cindy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I just want to say one thing. You are such an angel to all the victims and the victims` families out there. But I want to know, my question is, why isn`t DCF involved in this, or if they are, and why hasn`t somebody been arrested if the baby was in their custody?

GRACE: Cindy, I don`t know. That`s my question. I can`t get anybody on the panel to give me a clear answer tonight. But believe me, the baby didn`t grab a pint of vodka and down it herself!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Early Sunday morning, Christina (ph) showed up at the hospital with a blood alcohol level of .364.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a mistake. It was an honest mistake. I had no idea that there was alcohol in the water bottle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is never any amount of alcohol that is safe for any child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: An 8-week-old baby girl loaded on vodka. In fact, the child nearly died of alcohol poisoning.

Out to Dr. William Morrone, toxicologist and deputy medical examiner. What effect could this have on a child? I recall writing an article about fetal alcohol syndrome, when the mom drinks during pregnancy, and the long- term effects that has on a child, with learning -- a lot of different problems. But what will this do to a baby, getting it drunk?

MORRONE: The most important thing is the CNS depression. It`s acute alcohol poisoning. Muscular incoordination, and the baby itself could -- this is a range, but fatalities occur. There could be convulsions. There could be hypothermia. So a lot of metabolic consequences.

GRACE: Let`s unchain the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Doug Burns out of the New York jurisdiction, Steve Greenburg (ph) out of Chicago. Welcome to both of you. Doug Burns, look, you know the legal meaning of res ipsa loquitor, "The thing speaks for itself." You don`t even need any evidence, like when somebody wakes up from surgery and they have a sponge left in their stomach. Somebody did something. This baby didn`t go order a vodka tonic, all right? She`s in the car with the mom and dad.

DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We know that. But by the same token, there are only two possibilities. One is that the woman intentionally gave it to her, or two, in point of fact, the liquor was in a water bottle. We just do not know that. Generally, babies either get it from a bottle or rub it on their gums or you breast feed them...

GRACE: Rub it on their gums? Rub it on their gums? You`re not supposed to rub alcohol, vodka, on a baby`s gums! Who told you that?

BURNS: I`m not saying that you`re supposed to do it, I`m saying that`s one of the ways that it occurs. And the reality is...

GRACE: I said, what`s your best defense, and you said rubbing it on her gums.

BURNS: No, the -- Nancy...

GRACE: This child, three ounces of -- she was loaded!

BURNS: Right. The defense hears that the woman had no idea that the water bottle had vodka in it.

GRACE: OK. Out to Linda in Florida. Hi, Linda.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love you. I think you`re wonderful!

GRACE: Bless you. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nancy, first of all, I don`t understand how you can confuse a water bottle with a vodka bottle.

GRACE: I don`t, either.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And secondly, it troubles me that -- and we`ve seen this in many cases, the way that she does not look into the camera. She constantly has a -- she looks down. And we`ve seen this in many cases.

GRACE: You know what? That`s a really good point. What about it, Caryn Stark?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: That is a good point. And she doesn`t actually sound like she`s very sure of what she`s saying, Nancy. And the truth of the matter is, how does somebody confuse water and vodka? What was the vodka doing there? It makes no sense.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sarah (ph) found her boyfriend`s water bottle, which was actually filled with vodka. She says she mixed three ounces of it with formula, and little Christina drank it all.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Baby Christina is now in foster care, but her parents say they hope not for long.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I don`t buy it. Why would you have vodka in a water bottle, and then when the baby gets fussy, that`s what they told police, give it to the baby? Back to the control room. Liz, you`ve got a houseload of kids at home. Have you ever, ever, ever given your kid alcohol when it wouldn`t go to sleep?

ELIZABETH YUSKAITIS, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Never.

GRACE: You look like you`re lying. Yes, right. OK.

But bottom line, Doug Burns -- let`s take a look at Doug Burns for a moment. You said maybe it was teething. You know, I know that your kids are now in college. I`ve met them.

BURNS: Yes, thank you.

GRACE: They don`t teeth at 8 weeks, I don`t believe.

BURNS: OK. So I guess your theory is that if the woman wanted to kill her child, she would poison the kid with alcohol and then take the baby to a hospital.

GRACE: That`s not what I`m saying. Out to you, Steve Greenburg. What I`m saying is that feeding a child, for instance, benadryl or alcohol to make it go to sleep can be deadly.

STEVE GREENBURG, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It can be, but it can also be accidental. And let me say this, Nancy. You put whiskey on kids` gums...

GRACE: It can be what? I`m sorry?

GREENBURG: ... when they teeth.

GRACE: Well, hold on...

GREENBURG: It could be accidental.

GRACE: Three ounces of vodka?

GREENBURG: It could be accidental.

GRACE: Three ounces of vodka.

GREENBURG: Well, if she thought it was water, she thought it was water. Whether it was one ounce, three ounces or ten ounces, she thought it was water. There`s nothing to the contrary.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH DELAROCHE, GAVE BABY ALCOHOL: It was a mistake. It was an honest mistake. I had no idea that there was alcohol in the water bottle.

I love my daughter to death. I would never do anything to harm her in any kind of way. She wouldn`t respond. She was just moving her arms and her legs, you know, and her eyes were kind of droopy. I don`t know. She just wasn`t right.

Water formula, you know, I didn`t think to smell it. I never do. I don`t know what I would have done if I would have lost her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Speaking of eyes, why aren`t you looking into the camera when you speak, number one? And the baby was loaded! Of course, there`s something wrong with her. We`re talking about an 8-week-old baby girl who ingested about three ounces of vodka.

877-NANCY-01, can you smell vodka? I say you can smell vodka. Dean says you can smell vodka. Ellie, Ellie, you`re the expert. Can you smell it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It smells, but I wouldn`t say it smells as strong as, say, whiskey does.

GRACE: OK, we`ve been trying to figure out exactly how much is three ounces of booze. This is two ounces. This is four. This is only two. This is four. That`s a lot of vodka. Let`s go out to the expert, Trenny Stovall, child custody advocate joining us out of Atlanta. She`s such a good mom, she brought her baby with her tonight instead of leaving him/her with a nanny.

Trenny, thank you for being with us.

TRENNY STOVALL, CHILD CUSTODY ADVOCATE: You`re welcome.

GRACE: Three ounces of vodka. You know, this equals -- it could be alcohol poisoning with an adult.

STOVALL: Definitely, and it could have killed the baby. So I have like a million questions. First of all, were they in their own car? Who put the alcohol in the bottle of water, if it was in it, and what in the heck was she doing? That makes no sense to me. I really don`t care whether it was an accident or not. It`s depraved indifference, as far as I`m concerned.

GRACE: And under the law -- out to you, Doug Burns -- Trenny just hit on a very important legal concept. In many, many areas of the law, you can have depraved indifference and abandoned or malignant heart, where you are so negligence to the point it becomes criminal, like driving down Third Avenue at 90 miles an hour here in New York. That is depraved. You will hit somebody.

DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I totally agree. That was a brilliant point, because now you`re talking about something else. I`m saying it could have been accidental. What she just said -- and she`s absolutely right -- is merely keeping vodka in a water bottle in a car could easily amount to -- not to use legal terminology -- substituted mens rea, i.e. reckless indifference, which you could be criminally responsible for. That was an excellent point.

GRACE: Back out to Kevin McGlue with KCOL. Tell me about these parents. Number one, are they married?

KEVIN MCGLUE, ASSISTANT NEWS DIRECTOR, KCOL: They are not married. This is a group of folks who apparently are transient in nature. They do live with the woman`s grandmother. When they`re not living with her, they live in their car. So this is a group that doesn`t really have a rock solid relationship in terms of where they live.

GRACE: OK, I don`t care -- I`m not all hung up on the marriage thing. But does anybody in the bunch have a job?

MCGLUE: That is a great question. As far as we know, it`s up in the air as to whether or not they do. I will say this, and there has been a lot of frustration as to why there has not been an arrest made. I had spoke to an attorney in Colorado Springs earlier today who, in turn, had a conversation with the county attorney in El Paso County.

Apparently there had been several visits by the police to the residence where this family had been living in the past. So maybe that is the path they`re going down, trying to determine whether or not there might have been a pattern of abuse in the situation.

GRACE: Well, the baby`s only eight weeks old. I mean, how many -- that`s only 62 days of life. So how many times have police been to the home?

MCGLUE: It is only stated as "multiple visits" to this residence. And, again, this is a residence where they do not live full-time as they do sometimes live out of their vehicle.

GRACE: OK, let me get something straight, Kevin. With me is Kevin McGlue, and I`m hearing something very, very disturbing. So there`s a pattern of police going to the home on domestic calls?

MCGLUE: It is not stated whether or not it is a domestic call, only in the fact that, among the public record, it is stated that there have been multiple visits by police to the residence, which has been listed as one of their only residences outside of that vehicle.

GRACE: So we don`t know why police have gone there and we don`t know the time span? Has it been in the last two months?

MCGLUE: We do not know. There is not a time span listed. And, again, I think it leads you to believe is maybe the police taking so long to make this arrest are trying to be thorough in what might be a pattern.

GRACE: OK, you know, Trenny Stovall, child custody advocate joining me out of Atlanta, that doesn`t help at all. In fact, that makes we want to throw DFCS, Department of Family and Children Services, into the boiling pot, as well. You`ve got a child living sometimes in a home, sometimes in a car. I don`t want to penalize anybody for being broke. We`ve all been there. But bringing up a baby in a car, feeding it vodka when the baby`s fussy, having it in an environment where police are your regular visitors at suppertime?

STOVALL: None of it is acceptable behavior. The question becomes: How many times can the social service agencies go out to the home before they need to act? The reality is, people do have hardships. But minimally there should be a minimal basis of care for a child.

GRACE: Trenny, this baby is going to end up like all the other babies we read about on the front page in the morning on the "New York Post," that DFCS went, and they went, and they went, and now the baby`s dead, and nobody ever took the baby away. Now the baby`s stone-cold drunk.

STOVALL: Well, quite frankly, it kind of does my heart good to know that the department has been out there before, because now there is no excuse. There is no justification why that baby needs to go back to that home. They have a pattern of...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Trenny, there`s never an excuse. And we always read the next day, the baby`s dead and DFCS went 10 times and they never took the baby away.

STOVALL: Well, that`s why there are shows like yours, because now the public knows -- and hopefully the public outcry will make the department act and won`t allow these children to go back home.

GRACE: I want to go back to Kevin McGlue very quickly. So no arrest. I see the parents sitting there on the sofa, all kicked back. Where`s the baby?

MCGLUE: The baby right now is with El Paso County Human Services. It is in their custody. There is a hearing set for Thursday at 1:30, what is a preliminary protective proceeding, at which time the parents can contest whether or not they believe that this child should be with protective custody. Also, at that point, they can take on a court-appointed attorney, so we might learn a little bit more about the background of this couple come Thursday.

GRACE: And to you, Caryn Stark, clinical psychologist, what does the background have to do with anything?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: The background has to do with, what was the situation? Are they married? They`re not married. Did he drop them off at the hospital? He did. Did he disappear? We hear that he did. So it tells us a lot about what kind of couple this is.

When you live in your car, Nancy, for me that says that you`re homeless. So they have a baby in a homeless situation. And why was the vodka there to begin with?

GRACE: You know, that`s a really good point. Out to Luann in Florida, hi, Luann.

CALLER: Hi, I`m a really big fan of yours.

GRACE: Thank you, sweet lady.

CALLER: Yes, I was wondering -- vodka has a very strong alcoholic scent to it. How could she not know it was -- you know, it was not, you know, water.

GRACE: So you`re saying you can smell alcohol? For some reason, I had in my head that alcohol was odorless. Not true, correct?

CALLER: True, very true.

GRACE: It is not odorless. You can smell it?

CALLER: Yes.

GRACE: OK, you know what? Back out to the criminal defense lawyers. Steve Greenberg, that`s not helping. When you open up your Poland Springs water and you have to, you know, fan the car, and then you feed it to the baby? And when you feed a baby, you`re holding the baby. She had to be -- she, he -- had to be able to smell it.

STEVE GREENBERG, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, alcohol is odorless. Alcoholic beverages have an odor from whatever fragrance they may have. And Vodka has the lowest odor or the least odor of any of the alcoholic beverages traditionally.

Then she mixes it with formula, which has its own odor, puts it in the formula bottle, closes up the bottle, gives it to the child, who`s drinking then from a bottle. I don`t know how she could have smelled it. Look, we can`t criminalize every action or every mistake that people make.

GRACE: Oh, I didn`t say we could.

(CROSSTALK)

GREENBERG: DFCS or whoever it is has taken the child...

GRACE: But we already have a criminal statute. It`s called child neglect.

GREENBERG: Well, I don`t believe that`s a criminal issue. I believe that`s a parenting issue.

GRACE: When you get your child drunk and it has to go to the hospital, that`s not a criminal issue?

GREENBERG: Not if it`s an accident.

GRACE: OK. Back out to Dr. William Morrone, what do you do when a baby shows up at the E.R. drunk? Do you have to pump his stomach? What do you do?

DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER: If you can remove the alcohol, that`s one thing. That`s gastric lavage. But you`re stuck with the tincture of time. You just have to wait.

GRACE: So the baby basically has to sleep it off?

MORRONE: Yes. If you notice, there`s no second blood alcohol reported because the next couple of hours this baby`s still going to have a high blood alcohol. It`s not going to metabolize.

GRACE: And back out to you, Pat Brown, accident or no?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: It`s an accident, but I think the man probably put that liquor in that bottle, because that`s what people do when they want to carry liquor in the car and drink it, not be seen, in the Coke bottle or in the water bottle, either way. But did she know he did that? That`s the question.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An Amber Alert has been issued for the child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Amber Alert that was issued in the early morning hours on Monday, December 4th, has been determined to be a hoax. The body of Geontae Glass was found in the vehicle that was reported hijacked or stolen. A terrible tragedy has happened to a poor, defenseless child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A mom claimed that she was carjacked at the local 7-Eleven. In the backseat, her 5-year-old little boy, Geontae. Now we learn the baby boy is dead. We also learn that her story of a carjack at the local 7- Eleven isn`t quite holding together. Out to George Jones with the "Sand Mountain Reporter."

What happened, George?

GEORGE JONES, REPORTER, "SAND MOUNTAIN REPORTER": Good evening. What basically happened is apparently this young boy was deceased prior to this incident. And the parents -- or not the parents, but the mother and the boyfriend -- apparently cooked up a scheme to try and cover up the death of the boy by claiming that he had been stolen along with a car.

And they had stopped at a -- the mother and the daughter, a 7-year-old daughter, and supposedly the child, as the story was originally told, stopped at the local Conoco station, and they exited the car, the mother and the daughter. And then the gentleman -- and someone pulled up in a black pickup truck, and the passenger exited the truck, and jumped into the car, and took off with the car, which led to a series of law enforcement agencies trying to locate this individual.

And it turned out that, in the final analysis, while the event did occur, it was a hoax perpetrated by the mother and the boyfriend to cover up the death of the boy.

GRACE: So, to Sheriff James Hayes, a special guest joining us out of Etowah County -- he`s there in Gadsden, Alabama -- Sheriff, to top it all off, in addition to the dead boy in the trunk, they allegedly tried to stage a carjack?

JAMES HAYES, SHERIFF: Well, that`s what they did. And...

GRACE: Incredible.

HAYES: ... made it appear that.

GRACE: And who in this fictitious carjack scenario was the perpetrator? Did they give a description of the kidnapper?

HAYES: Well, they did. It was supposed to be a black male, 6`5", 250, with a baseball cap on sideways. And he gets out of a black pickup truck, jumps in the vehicle, and they both leave.

GRACE: I guess they never saw the Susan Smith coverage, where she basically said the same thing. And here, what if somebody else had been arrested? Would they just sit there and suck their thumb while somebody else went down on the carjack and murder of the little boy?

HAYES: Well, let me make this clear: There was a black male. There was a black pickup truck. It was all staged.

GRACE: Who was the male? And who was in the pickup?

HAYES: Well, we believe one of the black males to be...

GRACE: Him, the boyfriend.

HAYES: ... right. He was the boyfriend.

GRACE: What I`m saying is, what if the police had arrested somebody else in a similar black male and another black pickup truck? What would they do then, just sit there and let the guy go to jail?

HAYES: Well, they`ve got to have evidence to prove it. I mean, just because someone`s in a similar pickup, either black or white or whatever color it might be, doesn`t make them guilty.

GRACE: Hey, Sheriff, question: How did you guys figure out and when did you figure out this was all a hoax?

HAYES: Well, there`s two counties involved in this, the adjoining county of Marshall and Etowah. Etowah doesn`t come into play where I`m at until late in the day when it was discovered that the boyfriend had a residence in our county that no one knew about. The information gathered by the FBI and all the other law enforcement agencies that were investigating had come up with a lot of information, took statements from the mother and the boyfriend.

GRACE: Right.

HAYES: A lot of discrepancies. Things started happening. And he gave -- I`m talking about the boyfriend -- gave law enforcement, at that time in Marshall County, permission to search his home that he owns in Boaz.

GRACE: Got you. And so then, when you find the home in Boaz, you find the truck with the boy in the trunk?

HAYES: No, no, no, that`s not it. We found information that led us to the house in Etowah County, and that`s when we came in.

GRACE: And you found the pickup. You found the car with the boy in the trunk?

HAYES: Well, we had more to do than just go down there. We had to talk it over with everybody, look at it. Probable cause was developed to believe that the crime was committed in Etowah County.

GRACE: OK, got it.

To George Jones, question: Was the car parked at the boyfriend`s house with the boy in the trunk?

JONES: According to the investigators, the car was in the garage, which was attached to the house on the property there in Shady Grove community. And when the officers first appeared on the scene, they had to abide by the laws and acquire a search warrant.

And it took until approximately 1:00 in the morning before they were able to get that search warrant. And once they received the search warrant, then they began their search of the premises.

GRACE: OK, you know what? I`m not contesting that the cops had a warrant.

JONES: Pardon?

GRACE: OK, I`m not contesting the cops had a warrant, all right?

JONES: No, ma`am.

GRACE: I accept they had a warrant! But my question is: Was the boy in the trunk in the car at the place? That`s all I want to know! Where was the car? And was the boy in the trunk?

JONES: Well, I was just trying to explain to you that they had acquired their warrant. They went and they found the garage. They found the vehicle in the garage. And upon opening the trunk, they found the boy.

GRACE: How long had he been dead?

JONES: That has not been determined yet. They`re expecting the results on an autopsy tomorrow.

GRACE: George, do we know the cause of death?

JONES: According to the warrant, that was issued earlier this evening for Mr. Towles, the warrant stipulates that it was blunt force trauma to the head.

GRACE: And, Sheriff, what is the mom charged with tonight?

HAYES: Blunt force trauma to the head. It was to the lower parts of the body. She`s charged with hindering prosecution, which means she helped cover it up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the early morning hours of Tuesday, December the 5th, the body of the victim in this case, G. Glass, Geontae Glass, was found in the vehicle that was reported hijacked or stolen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A mom reports a carjacking at a local 7-Eleven, claiming her little 5-year-old little boy in the back seat. The boy turns up dead in the trunk. Was the whole scenario staged?

I`m taking a look at the rap sheet of the so-called boyfriend, Kevin Towles. It dates back to `92. It includes assault, robbery, drugs, harassment, resisting arrest, concealed weapon, assault. It goes on and on.

Let`s go out to the two lawyers. Joining me is Doug Burns. Also with him, Steve Greenberg, two veteran trial lawyers. You know, Alabama, Doug Burns, is a death penalty state, and I took the liberty to look at the statute. One of them is heinous, atrocious or cruel.

BURNS: Right. Oh, no, there`s no question that it could apply. I think what`s going to happen here strategically is they`re going to squeeze the girlfriend real hard, because she`s up for obstruction of justice while covering it up. That will provide the link to him. They`ll make a deal with her and go after him.

GRACE: And also to Steve Greenberg, Steve, I`m a little surprised the mom is charged with hindering a prosecution. What is that?

GREENBERG: That means that she complicated the investigation or tried to prevent the investigation. I agree with Doug: They`re going to work her, and she`s going to cut a deal against him.

GRACE: Why do you say it like it`s a dirty word? She should be happy she`s not charged with her child`s murder tonight.

GREENBERG: Happy for her, but deal or snitch is a dirty word to me.

GRACE: Spoken like a true defense attorney. Gentlemen, thank you.

BURNS: Thank you.

GRACE: Very quickly, let`s stop to remember Army Staff Sergeant Jack Jackson. He`s 29, Saginaw, Michigan, killed, Iraq. Before that, Jackson was a missionary all over the world, from India to North Africa. He wanted to become a pilot. He got the Bronze Star, a Purple Heart. A proud father who loved life, he leaves behind a grieving widow, Katie, four children, the youngest 7 months. William Jackson II, American hero.

Thank you to our guests and to you for being with us. NANCY GRACE signing off. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.

END