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Nancy Grace

Still No Charges in Lana Clarkson Gunshot Death

Aired December 19, 2006 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: Just how much justice can money buy? Will justice delayed be justice denied? Multi-millionaire music genius Phil Spector facing murder charges in the brutal shooting death of a beautiful actress, Lana Clarkson. It all occurred inside his California mansion over three years ago -- repeat, three years ago -- and still tonight, no trial.
And tonight: Did a well-respected California preacher who manned the pulpit to thousands hatch a murder plot and stage it to look like a car accident, all to get his own holy mitts on the guy`s multi-million dollar trust fund?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHIL SPECTOR, MUSIC MOGUL: The actions of the Hitler-like district attorney and his storm-trooping henchmen to seek an indictment against me and censor all means of me getting my evidence and the truth out are reprehensible, unconscionable and despicable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. And yes, apparently, that Spector`s real hair, no Photoshop going on. Ouch! Way to make a first impression in the courtroom! I would laugh if it weren`t for the little matter of Lana Clarkson, a beautiful young actress that he says suddenly decided to commit suicide in his house on their first date. Yes!

Out to Mark Ribowsky, author of "He`s a Rebel." It`s a Spector biography. Mark, what does he claim happened the night Lana Clarkson was killed in his mansion?

MARK RIBOWSKY, AUTHOR OF BOOK ON PHIL SPECTOR, "HE`S A REBEL": Well, first of all, I want to point out that that was, indeed, a wig. He does not have hair and hasn`t had hair for many years.

GRACE: Well, now that we`ve got that cleared up...

RIBOWSKY: Yes. Well, his case rests on, I think, four points. And actually, he`s -- they`re not weak points, when compared with O.J.`s case, for example. The first being that Lana Clarkson was drunk in his house...

GRACE: Well, OK.

RIBOWSKY: ... and far drunker tan...

GRACE: Case closed.

RIBOWSKY: And far drunker...

GRACE: She was drunk. She deserved the death penalty.

RIBOWSKY: That`s just the beginning. The fact that the autopsy report showed that there was blood on the inside of the gun and on outside of the gun barrel, meaning that it had to be in her mouth, which makes the murder rap seem a little less strong because, logically, if a gun is inside somebody`s mouth, well, the odds are they put it there. At least, that`s what he`s going to say.

The third is that there was gunshot residue on her hands, both hands, more than on his hands, which defeats the state`s point, which was that it was a three-foot cloud of gunshot residue that wound up on both of them. And the fourth is that she somehow waylaid him at the House of Blues and convinced him to take her home. So all of these crazy little things are going to be knit into a tapestry of his defense.

GRACE: I see where they`re coming from.

Out to Michelle Caruso. She is the L.A. correspondent with "The New York Daily News." Welcome, Michelle.

MICHELLE CARUSO, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: Thank you for being with us. I`ve heard so many different facts reported from police reporters regarding the shooting that night, but it was also my understanding that he allegedly came out of the mansion and stated to a limo driver that he`d just shot her.

CARUSO: Absolutely, Nancy. I think it`s all in how you look at the facts and who`s doing the talking at the time. His chauffeur says that he heard a shot, and as he approached the house to investigate, he saw Phil Spector coming out of the house with the gun in his hand, a blood smear on his hand, and that he was somehow either looking at or -- I`ve heard another account that said that Phil was actually standing over the body. But his chauffeur has testified that Phil said, I think I shot her, or, I think I killed her. And later to police, in his initial questioning after his arrest, he told them he believed he accidentally shot her.

GRACE: OK. Out to Art Harris, investigative reporter. He has certainly covered the goings-on in L.A. many a time. Art Harris, why is this guy so famous? Apparently, a music genius.

ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Nancy, he has been in the music scene and created the wall of sound, has helped produce everybody from the Beatles to Ike and Tina Turner, has written, you know, amazing songs over the years, and you know, is compared to a modern-day Beethoven.

Here you have someone, though, who is deeply troubled, deeply disturbed, who by his own account is bipolar, taking medicine for schizophrenia. All the while, this great music is being created, and he`s rocketing to the top.

And the crazier he gets, Nancy, the more guns come into play between him and especially women. The question is going to be -- and a good defense lawyer will try to portray this as Hollywood Babylon and maybe some terrible thing instead of guns and roses, guns and foreplay.

GRACE: You know, long story short, Mike Brooks, we`re playing some of his music, music that he engineered. He is the pioneer of the wall of sound. He engineered the careers of the Ronettes, the Beatles, Lennon, incredibly talented, incredibly rich. Mike Brooks, justice delayed, justice denied over this, his songs?

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: I tell you what, Nancy, there`s been so much evidence in this case, though, I`m going to be anxious to also hear what the evidence technicians say. And I`d like to see the pictures of the blood splatter that took place when the shooting happened. I`ve heard of cases before where there has been some sexual play with guns, and it looked like...

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, wait! Why are all the guys on the show talking about sex play with guns?

BROOKS: Because I`ve had the experience of seeing it, Nancy.

GRACE: Wasn`t she fully clothed?

BROOKS: I don`t know. That`s what I`d like to see.

GRACE: Wa-wa-wa! Ellie, was she fully clothed?

BROOKS: You know what...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: So where are we going with the whole sexual gunplay? That has nothing to do with this!

BROOKS: Yes, it does. You know, I don`t want to be too explicit on your air, but I have seen instances where there has been gunplay like this, where there had been some things that were simulated using a handgun. You can figure that one out, what I`m saying, Nancy. So can our viewers. But you know, are we dealing with a suicide? Are we dealing with a murder?

GRACE: Hold on, Mike.

BROOKS: Hold on. Hold on. Hold one. Mike...

BROOKS: I`m just telling you from my experience what I`ve seen, Nancy, that`s all.

GRACE: Right. Right. Yes. OK. This was their very first meeting.

BROOKS: OK.

GRACE: They were both fully clothed. She had just gotten to his place. And what I hear from you is going to be some fantastic defense that they`re going to come up with that she was part of some weird sex game and ended up, she`s dead, he`s not.

BROOKS: I`m not talking about a defense. I`m just talking about, if he did -- he may have shot her., but I`d like to see all the reports on the blood splatter, all the DNA, what kind of DNA was also -- was there any of his DNA on the gun? A lot of different things could come into play here, Nancy, and that`s why I`d like to see the reports, all of the crime scene reports, to see exactly what the blood splatter looked like, where it was, was, the position of her body, all these kind of things...

GRACE: What do you think about the blood being inside the gun barrel?

BROOKS: It could be some blowback, that kind of thing, but...

GRACE: Why does that necessarily mean the gun was in her mouth?

BROOKS: It doesn`t necessarily mean it was in her mouth.

GRACE: I agree. I agree.

BROOKS: It doesn`t necessarily mean, but...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Let`s get this straight. Mark Ribowsky, the author of "He`s a Rebel," was stating that that will be part of the defense. He`s not saying that it`s necessarily true. It`s just a defense theory, right, Mark?

RIBOWSKY: I just wanted to add one thing to what was just said. There`s a lot of ignorance about this case because it takes a careful reading of the grand jury and the police reports. She was not fully clothed when she was found. And again, I`m not making the defense for him, I`m just saying he`s very smart. He has smart lawyers. People like him always seem to win these cases in L.A., for some reason.

GRACE: They sure do.

RIBOWSKY: They`re smarter than the DA. Her skirt had been removed, and it was found in her handbag. And as far as the DNA is concerned, the only DNA of Spector that was found on her was semen on one of her breasts. So there obviously had been some sexual play going on in the house. Again, I don`t know if this is the defense for him or not, this is just the -- he has more to work with than O.J. ever did, although...

GRACE: So you`re saying she was...

RIBOWSKY: ... I personally think he`s guilty.

GRACE: ... not totally clothed?

RIBOWSKY: No.

GRACE: Unlike other reports, you`re saying she was not totally clothed.

RIBOWSKY: No, her -- her -- she was in a slip on the chair, obviously placed in an awkward attempt to make it look like she shot herself with the gun, placed under her left hand, even though she`s right-handed. So it really was a sloppy job. But her skirt...

GRACE: She -- you know, I`m looking at...

RIBOWSKY: ... was in her bag.

GRACE: I`m looking at photos of her right now, Lana Clarkson, absolutely just a beautiful lady. So -- wait a minute. Wait a minute. You know, you just reminded me of a case I had where a woman allegedly committed suicide, but there were blood spatter, there was blood spatter, which is from the impact of the gun, under her pillow. And as soon as we saw that at the crime lab, we realized the scene had been posed. The pillow had been placed on top of the gun spatter after the shooting. You`re telling me the gun was under her left hand?

RIBOWSKY: The gun that Spector was seen with by the limo driver, Mr. DeSouza (ph), was later found by the cops under the chair, where she was in a death pose in the foyer, under her left hand, which was dangling down from the chair, even though she`s right-handed. So it was obviously an attempt by him, I would assume, since there was nobody else in the house, to stage a suicide scene.

He had also -- there was also a cloth, actually a sanitary napkin, found in an upstairs sink with the blood which apparently had been wiped off the gun in a very quick attempt to wipe it off. He didn`t wipe off all of it. As I said, there were still traces on the inside and the outside. There was blood on him. And there was blood all over the kitchen, teeth strewn throughout the foyer. So there`s a lot of evidence, but...

GRACE: Her teeth? Her teeth?

RIBOWSKY: ... he has -- he has a lot to work with.

GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wait! Mark Ribowsky with us, author of "He`s a Rebel," Spector biography. You said her teeth were strewn around the foyer?

RIBOWSKY: Yes. And this is, again -- the Spector team will try to make the case that this only happens when a gun is put into a mouth and clenched and then a trigger pulled in an obvious suicide. Now, I don`t know if this is right. You`re the lawyer. I don`t know if this is true. This is what they`re going to say. They have a lot to work with. Even though I personally think he`s guilty, they have a lot to work with.

GRACE: Let`s go out to the lawyers. Joining us tonight from the California jurisdiction, defense attorney Michael Cardoza, from the Atlanta jurisdiction, veteran trial lawyer Renee Rockwell. Let me suggest to the two of you that the first thing you need to send to the defense team is one of these. It`s a replacement wig for that monstrosity he`s got on his scalp right now.

(LAUGHTER)

GRACE: I mean, No offense, but the jury will run shrieking into the jury room as if they had seen a monster. Help him out, Renee.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, you know, those first impressions are really important. But you know what? Everybody knows him already.

GRACE: That`s your legal advice, make a good first impression?

ROCKWELL: Nancy, everybody knows this guy. He`s freaky like this. So...

(CROSSTALK)

ROCKWELL: ... they know what they`re getting into, Nancy. The bigger problem they`re going to have is dealing with that tiny little statement.

GRACE: The statement, I think I did it. What about it, Cardoza? What`s your best bet at getting that thrown out?

MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I`ll tell you what. Number one, I`d certainly get him to change, unless, Nancy, you`re trying to prove to the jury that he is a whack job and that somehow helps your defense, whatever their defense theory in this case is going to be. So maybe they can use that to their advantage. If it`s going to be a straight, I didn`t do it, I had nothing to do with it, yes, I agree, first impressions to a jury and the impression throughout the entire trial because, you know, people judge other people on looks. Like it or not, get him changed, if it`s going to be a straight defense, I didn`t do it.

GRACE: And remember, everybody, Michael Cardoza was helping along with the Scott Peterson defense. And I tell you, Michael, after the trial, of course, not during it, we discussed Peterson`s demeanor in court, the way he would walk into the courtroom. It just put people`s teeth on edge.

CARDOZA: Right. Well, remember what I did. I cross-examined him for the defense. They asked me to come in and cross-examine him. I had nothing else to do with the defense. I didn`t advise them what they should do. I simply, because of my prosecutorial background, cross-examined him.

But I`ll tell you what. I absolutely agree with you. When he walked into that courtroom, he had that smirk on his face, Geragos and Pat Harris should have wiped it off his face and made him change.

And you and I will argue about this to our death. There was enough evidence, according to the jury, to convict him of the crime. But I`ll be darned how they got to a death penalty in this case, other than they simply didn`t like him. In fact, they hated him enough, they gave him the death penalty because to this day, nobody knows how he did it. So how does a jury put a guy to death when you don`t know exactly how that homicide went down? That one...

GRACE: Well, probably with the theory...

CARDOZA: ... I have a simple answer for. They hated Scott Peterson.

GRACE: ... that there was a dead mother and dead baby that washed up on the beach.

CARDOZA: There is...

GRACE: That probably had a little something to do with it!

CARDOZA: Of course, Nancy. But we still...

GRACE: Before we do the appeal...

CARDOZA: ... don`t know how he did it.

GRACE: ... of the Scott Peterson case...

CARDOZA: We don`t know!

GRACE: ... let me go to Edward Lozzi. This is Lana Clarkson`s former publicist and friend. Mr. Lozzi, thank you for being with us. Question regarding the way that she was found. Is Mr. Ribowsky correct that she was wearing her slip and -- what is your understanding of how she was found?

EDWARD LOZZI, LANA CLARKSON`S EX-BOYFRIEND: OK. I had access to the autopsy report, and it`s a lot different than what I just heard, OK? First of all, I don`t know if you read the same one, but I didn`t see anything about any semen on any breast, OK? That`s number one. Number two, it`s been proven that he moved the body. It`s also proven that he was walking, running around the room. He had to be tasered. He was running through the blood. He moved the body. There was blood on doorknobs upstairs. All of this going on after he had made his statement to Mr. DeSouza.

So the real hero here is "The Los Angeles Times," believe it or not, who had to sue the court to allow the grand jury minutes to be released to the public. And "The L.A. Times" ran that story every single day to get out to the fact that the judge is allowing other women who have had loaded guns put into their face, pressed up against their face, OK, and he`s allowing that -- he`s allowing them to testify.

So I know I answered a longer question. But this is a woman that was our Charlize Theron. She was very spiritual. She had a thousand people showed up at her funeral. In all the years that I`ve been doing legal PR, I`ve never seen anything like this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A female had been shot inside the location. The victim was pronounced dead at the scene. Mr. Philip Spector from Motown Records has been taken into custody and is being contained at (INAUDIBLE) police department.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... until I found myself being literally a prisoner in his home. There were barbed-wire fences. There were security towers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That was Roni Bennett (ph) speaking. That is the former wife of Phil Spector. As you know by now, Phil Spector facing murder charges in the shooting death of a beautiful young actress, Lana Clarkson. Does money buy justice in this country? Because it has been three years and a jury has not been struck in the case of Lana Clarkson`s murder.

I want to go back to her former publicist and a dear friend of Lana Clarkson`s, Edward Lozzi. You know, earlier, when we were talking to Mark Ribowsky, he mentioned that she had semen on her body and was wearing a slip, that her skirt was folded up in her purse. All the stories and wires that I found in research, other than one, stated she was wearing a black slip dress. That is a dress, all right, not a slip. And I haven`t found any reports of semen.

LOZZI: Yes. The autopsy report that I read, and had I access to it, and Sandy Gibbons (ph), the spokesman for the L.A. County prosecutor, for Alan Jackson (ph) now, who`s taken over the case, as well as the incredible research from the L.A. County sheriff`s homicide division, who worked almost a year...

GRACE: Right.

LOZZI: ... so they would never ever have an O.J. Simpson situation -- they worked on it, and it is solid...

GRACE: Just give me the facts. Give me the facts.

LOZZI: The facts are, is that she was fully clothed, that they both had the same amount of residue on their bodies, OK?

GRACE: Where was the residue on her and him?

LOZZI: On her hair, on her hands, the chest. Sandy Gibbons even had a press conference to counter the phony press conference that Leslie Abramson ran when she put up the papers, held them up in her hand and said...

GRACE: Where was the residue on him?

LOZZI: All over his hair, whatever hair he had, and all over his face and hands. They both had the same amount of residue on their hands and on their faces.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a great man in the studio. He did some work in there that I didn`t see how he could do it. He went beyond. That`s why it was a wall of sound. It was great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Why has it been three years since music genius was first charged -- Phil Spector was first charged in the death of Lana Clarkson, a beautiful young actress there in L.A.? Still no jury struck in the case, the case lingering.

Out to Dr. Daniel Spitz, forensic pathologist. Dr. Spitz, you have studied the case. There`s a lot of suggestion that Clarkson`s body had been posed, placed in the chair after she was shot. What can you determine?

DR. DANIEL SPITZ, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, I`ll tell you what. Based on what I`ve looked at, I would not want to be Phil Spector going forward with a trial. There`s a lot of evidence that he`s going to have a hard time explaining. One of them is the movement of the body after the death. The other one is his statement, where he states that this is an accidental shooting. That the type of defense is not going to fly.

Certainly, saying you put a gun in somebody`s mouth and pulled the trigger doesn`t really sit well with the jury as being an accident. Clearly, then he changes his mind to, that she killed herself. But again, there`s a lot of evidence which doesn`t add up with that scenario, the movement of the body, the statements that he`s made, so again, the gunpowder residue both on her body and on his body. Clearly, he`s going to have difficult questions to answer.

GRACE: You know, to you, Mike Brooks. Let`s talk about gunshot residue. We keep hearing a lot about it. The reality is that when a gun is fired, Mike, the gunshot residue, which is often invisible to the naked eye, goes about three feet at the most in all directions. The fact that she is shot in the head, it means absolutely nothing to me that she could have gunshot residue on herself. What`s interesting, he has residue all over him, as well. What do you think?

BROOKS: Well, also, Nancy, depends if it`s a semiautomatic or a revolver, on the amount that could come out. A revolver, you`re going to have much more residue than you would on a semiautomatic, where most of the residue usually comes directly out of the barrel, where on a revolver, it will come out of the barrel and also out of the cylinder, out of the sides of the cylinder.

But no, it -- you know, they -- he could have been holding the gun. She could have been holding the gun. They could have been fighting over the gun when the gun went off. So there`s a lot of...

GRACE: It was a .38 resolver.

BROOKS: OK, that`s the reason it sounds -- that`s to me why it sounded like there was so much residue, revolver. So they could have been fighting over the gun. A lot of questions still remain unanswered, Nancy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The actions of the Hitler-like district attorney and his storm-trooping henchmen to seek an indictment against me and censure all means of me getting my evidence and the truth out are reprehensible, unconscionable and despicable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Not nearly as despicable as a shooting death of a young actress, Lana Clarkson, her teeth found strewn all over Phil Spector`s entrance hall, her body apparently moved in some attempt to pose it as if there had been a suicide. At least that`s what cops allege.

And why, may I ask, has it been three years since Lana Clarkson was killed in Spector`s mansion? Why is justice moving so slowly? Is it because of money and fame?

As you all know by now, Phil Spector is a music genius, responsible for engineering the careers of people like John Lennon, the Beatles, the Ronettes, Ike and Tina Turner, then later just Tina Turner. The list goes on and on and on.

Take a look at this mansion this guy lives in. He`s loaded with money. That`s the one thing I really don`t understand, Michelle Caruso. Michelle is the L.A. correspondent with the "New York Daily News." It`s why people aren`t literally protesting on the front of the courthouse steps, the delay in justice.

MICHELLE CARUSO, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well, Nancy, I think part of it is because one of the delays at least was the result of Bruce Cutler, one of his attorneys, having a long trial in New York City. Another time, a delay was caused when the judge had a long cause case in front of him. So it hasn`t been...

GRACE: Three years?

CARUSO: Well, and the first year, it took that long before they took the case for the grand jury. So he wasn`t actually indicted until almost a year after the crime. So some of the delays have been -- you could blame Phil Spector, but some have just been circumstances.

GRACE: Take a listen to what Phil Spector`s ex-wife has to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONNIE BENNETT, EX-WIFE OF PHIL SPECTOR: I view him as being very self-centered. And I also viewed him -- he was a great man in the studio. He did some work in there that I didn`t see how he could do it. He went beyond. That`s why it was the wall of sound, and it was great.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I read somewhere in the press that she killed herself. Uh-uh. This was not someone who is going to kill herself. No way. She was at a very happy time in her life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That first one, first speaker was Ronnie Bennett, Ronnie and the Ronettes, incredibly famous, talented and gifted, also formerly married to Phil Spector. I want to go back out to the lawyers, Renee Rockwell and, joining us also from California, Michael Cardoza.

The delay, Renee, it`s a defense lawyer`s best friend. Why?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. Rule number one, Nancy: Get them out. Get them a bond. And he`s on a $1 million bond, something you and me couldn`t make. But you don`t care how long it takes for this trial to go. You don`t care if it gets delayed four more years, because every day is another day on the street for him, Nancy.

GRACE: Long story short, Michael Cardoza, every day on bond is another day of innocence. And that is true, delay is a defense lawyer`s best friend.

MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, come on, Nance. Step up to the plate on this one.

Number one, sure, a defense attorney can age a case like you age fine wine. But in this case, you know as a prosecutor, and I was an ex- prosecutor, you start leaning on the courts if you want it to get to trial. Judge, quit giving him continuances. You say it enough, the judge will finally put a stop to it.

In this case, remember, one of the D.A.s, in fact, the lead D.A., was appointed to the L.A. county bench. So that threw a delay into this trial. So it`s not only the defense`s trial calendar; it was also the district attorney`s trial calendar.

GRACE: Hold on just a moment. Hold on, no, no, no.

(CROSSTALK)

CARDOZA: Yes, yes, yes.

GRACE: You`re wrong. No, you`re actually wrong, Michael.

CARDOZA: Where am I wrong, Nance?

GRACE: When one of the prosecutors left the case to take the bench, they did not ask for a delay based on those grounds. The rest of the prosecution trial team agreed to go forward with the case; they did not ask for a delay.

And when you say, "Step up to the plate," know your facts. The state -- I`d like to finish.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: The state has not ask asked for the delay. The delays in this case has been asked for by the defense.

CARDOZA: No, there have been...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: And just once by the judge.

CARDOZA: Oh, and once by the judge, all right.

GRACE: Yes.

CARDOZA: And the D.A. -- you know, being a D.A., I know from being a D.A., you wanted to get the trial, start leaning on it. You will get it to trial soon.

(CROSSTALK)

CARDOZA: So you can`t put this on the defendant in this case.

GRACE: They didn`t ask for a delay, Cardoza. Know your facts, all right? And you step up to the plate.

CARDOZA: Nancy, I will. I always step up to the plate with you. I`m very happy to do it.

GRACE: Know your facts.

CARDOZA: Nance, they did delay this, the prosecution.

GRACE: Not the state. Name one way.

CARDOZA: Pardon me?

GRACE: Name one way.

CARDOZA: Name one what?

GRACE: Yes, one way.

CARDOZA: Delay?

GRACE: The delay in the prosecution.

CARDOZA: OK, I`ll name one way that was implied, without going into it because I wasn`t in every hearing. Stand up in that court and tell the judge, "Judge, we object to this continuance. We are ready to go."

GRACE: They did object.

CARDOZA: "The people are ready to go."

GRACE: They did object.

CARDOZA: If they had done that time and again, this case would have been to trial by now.

GRACE: Repeat, I don`t want the facts to get in your way, but...

(CROSSTALK)

CARDOZA: They never do, Nancy, just like with you. They never do.

GRACE: But the state did oppose the delay, other than when Bruce Cutler, who was the main trial lawyer at that time, was in the middle of another trial.

And, Renee Rockwell, you have answered multiple calendars, Renee, at the same time...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: And when the trial lawyer`s in another jurisdiction, you can`t make them appear at the same time.

ROCKWELL: That`s right. And it`s called a conflict, and you know that, Mr. Cardoza. It`s a conflict. And a lawyer cannot be at two places at one time. But sometimes that happens.

CARDOZA: I`m not saying the defense didn`t ask for it. I never said that. I`m saying the prosecution should have leaned heavier. And there was a time when they were trying another case.

GRACE: All right. You know what? Michael, I appreciate your attempt to blame the state for the defense asking for delays.

But back out to Art Harris, when is this ever going to trial?

ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Nancy, that`s a great question, possibly in the spring. Right now, it`s, I think, scheduled tentatively for April. But the other question is: Who`s gun was it, Nancy? Lana Clarkson had a gun, and we haven`t established whose gun this was. Spector had a lot of guns around the house, and that is going to be one of the issues.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The information came to our detectives after the family brought it to our attention that this was more than just a fatal vehicle accident. This was something more going on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are a very close-knit community.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are people talking about it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, yes. They have been for a long time, ever since, you know, the accident. I think it`s pretty bizarre and seems very circumstantial that more than likely he`s guilty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Did a well-respected California preacher who manned the pulpit over the years to thousands hatch a murder plot and stage it to look like a car accident, all in an attempt to get his unholy mitts on the guy`s multimillion-dollar trust fund?

Out to Art Harris, investigative reporter. What happened?

HARRIS: Nancy, in 2002, they had an accident. The preacher, Doug Porter, was driving Frank Craig, a wealthy 85-year-old man, who had $4 million in stocks, and they ran off the road. He was injured, not hurt that time. Police investigated it as an accident. Two years later, he hits a tree and is killed.

The relatives complained, and they look into this. Too coincidental? He is now under suspicion. He`s in jail, charged with three counts, two, one of felony murder, one of the attempted murder, and one of attempted embezzlement.

GRACE: How much is in the trust fund?

HARRIS: Four million dollars, Nancy.

GRACE: Out to Mike Brooks, former D.C. cop and former fed with the FBI, what do you think about this prior alleged attempt of murder?

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: I`ll tell you what, Nancy. You know, it took the cops awhile to go ahead and kind of put all the pieces together, but they were delayed a little bit because of the Scott Peterson trial. They were focused on that.

But, you know, they went back. They took a look at all the circumstances. And I think even the families, you know, were saying, "Wait a minute. Let`s take a look at this again." You know, he runs into an oak tree one time. Then he drives into a ditch, and the guy drowns. And then he gives the eulogy at the guy`s funeral. Come on. I mean, you talk about a guy -- talk about a breach of trust, Nancy. It`s unbelievable.

GRACE: OK, let`s go through the facts as they jump out at you, Mike Brooks.

BROOKS: The facts. OK. You know, he befriends this guy. He really doesn`t -- he`s really not a religious guy.

GRACE: You`re talking about Doug Porter, the suspect -- excuse me, Pastor Porter, age 55, befriends 85-year-old Frank Craig.

BROOKS: Right. Now Mr. Craig, they say he was not a religious guy, but he put all of his trust in this preacher. You know, he looked at him as a man of God that he could trust. And he wanted to build a museum for all of his -- for all of his farm equipment. And he thought that this preacher was going to help him do this.

Now, Mr. Craig apparently was fairly frugal. They said if he wanted to buy a pack of batteries that you had to buy four, he would just go without it. You know, he was a fairly frugal guy, and he put all of his trust...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Well, that`s why he`s a multimillionaire.

BROOKS: Yes, I guess so. I guess that`s why I`m poor. But anyway...

GRACE: That`s what you get for buying those four-pack batteries, Brooks.

BROOKS: I buy a 30, Nancy, when I go to Cosco, but what can I say? But, you know, he put all of his trust in this guy, Nancy. And it`s just - - to me, it`s incredible.

But, you know, everybody was saying he`s not a religious guy. He really wasn`t, you know, a churchgoer. But he was just apparently enamored by this preacher, and the preacher took full advantage of him.

"Hey, want to go for a ride?" Take him for a ride, this old guy, slam into an oak tree. Oh, didn`t kill him that time. So he waits a couple years later, and then he drives into an irrigation ditch and the guy drowns. You know, and then he has the audacity, Nancy, to give this guy`s eulogy at the funeral. To me, that is just disgusting.

GRACE: Oh, man, Art Harris, I can only hope the prosecution has the video of this eulogy. How many times do you think they`ll play that over and over in front of the jury?

HARRIS: Nancy, it`s a case, as we`ve seen before, of full-blooded hypocrisy, at least alleged -- I mean, the guy`s pleading innocent. He`s got one more arraignment coming up on the 11th. But he is in jail without bail, and it`s the man`s relatives who finally got police attention.

GRACE: He`s in jail without bail. Interesting. He`s in jail without bail, Renee Rockwell. But Phil Spector is wandering around free as a kite.

ROCKWELL: Yes, well, I would think that Phil Spector would be spotted if he was trying to maybe leave the country. But here`s a guy -- don`t forget, they didn`t give Scott Peterson bail either. Here`s a little county that`s a little bit tighter on their reins.

But here`s a guy that maybe has the wherewithal, with the $4 million trust, to get out. Don`t forget he was going to Mexico -- it`s my understanding at some point -- so maybe not a good flight risk, no bail.

GRACE: And I want to go out to Andrea Macari, clinical psychologist. Andrea, in this case, the family probably would never have been suspicious. But just let`s think about the boldness of this.

Backing in 3/02, March `02, this guy, the preacher, is driving the car, slams the car into an oak tree. The old man lives, sustains injuries, but lives, all right? At that time, he`s what, 82, 83 years old. The guy lives.

Four `04, January, February, March, April `04, all of a sudden he`s back in the car with the old guy. They go down an irrigation ditch, and the poor old man drowns to death, and this guy lives. And he gets -- and tries to get the money, millions.

ANDREA MACARI, INSTRUCTOR OF PSYCHOLOGY: Well, talk been arrogance, right, on the part of this guy. I have to say, there`s one diagnosis that`s screaming at me, and that is anti-social personality disorder. This guy has no remorse for what he did.

I guarantee you that he`s done horrible things in the past, cons people. If you look back in history, I don`t know if there`s any evidence of it, but I guarantee you, you don`t just have two attempts at murder out of nowhere.

GRACE: You know, interesting, Michael Cardoza, when you get somebody charged with murder, it`s hard for me to believe that they just suddenly graduated to murder. What happened to pre-K, you know, a the little shoplifting, you know, then you go onto high school, a couple of larcenies. Suddenly, a murder.

And what do you think, Cardoza? Keep the camera on Cardoza for just one moment while he`s not talking. What do you make of the pastor...

CARDOZA: I`m not talking, because I can`t believe this.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: ... leaving California to start a mission in Mexico, where you know they will not bring you back home if the death penalty is being sought, a mission.

CARDOZA: Nancy...

GRACE: In Mexico.

CARDOZA: I cannot believe this.

GRACE: Believe what?

CARDOZA: Nancy, I cannot believe this. I cannot believe we`re talking like this guy`s guilty right now.

GRACE: That he killed a guy?

CARDOZA: Yes, I`ll tell you what. The people that are listening now, I`d love to hear from them. Would you convict this guy because they got in two automobile accidents?

GRACE: Yes.

CARDOZA: God forbid, I`ve been in more than that. And because he`s the head of this guy`s trust or the trustee, no, there`s not enough evidence to convict this guy.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Have you literally...

CARDOZA: Have at me. Please, have at me.

GRACE: Yes, OK. I have to be able to give you the Q -- that`s the question -- before you give me the A. Bring it down. Use your inside voice. First of all, you said you`ve had plenty of wrecks, OK, fine. How many wrecks have you had with the same single individual in your car?

CARDOZA: Gee, you know, I can`t remember exactly how many. I think two.

GRACE: OK, no further questions.

CARDOZA: Two times, because I was commuting to and from work. To and from work, I was rear-ended, and we went and slid off the road one time.

GRACE: Who was the person?

CARDOZA: It was icy, and I slid off the road. It was someone that I worked with.

GRACE: Both times?

CARDOZA: Both times.

GRACE: Who?

CARDOZA: Fortunately, neither one of us were hurt.

GRACE: Who?

CARDOZA: Who? You want a name?

GRACE: Yes.

CARDOZA: Jim.

GRACE: OK, you know what? I`m going to check that out.

CARDOZA: OK, does that help you?

GRACE: Because I don`t believe. I don`t believe you`ve had two crashes...

CARDOZA: OK, have at that, Nancy.

GRACE: ... with the same person in the car. When were the crashes?

CARDOZA: Say that again?

GRACE: When were the crashes?

CARDOZA: We worked together. It was when I was in San Francisco working in the D.A.`s office. I was a district attorney at the time.

GRACE: Year? Year?

CARDOZA: Gosh, it`s going to give up my age, but it was in the `80s.

GRACE: You said "it." I thought you said there were two accidents?

CARDOZA: There were two accidents.

GRACE: OK, when was the other one?

CARDOZA: The other one was `83, and I think about `84, `85, somewhere in there.

GRACE: And both times, same person in the car with you on a road?

CARDOZA: Same person in the car on the way to work.

GRACE: Both times rear-ended?

CARDOZA: No, I said we slid off the road one time.

GRACE: You said you were rear-ended.

CARDOZA: It`s ice or something. One time we were rear-ended.

GRACE: Ice or something one time? OK, the story`s getting a little fuzzy.

CARDOZA: No, no, it`s not getting fuzzy at all. So am I going to get convicted if he were hurt...

(CROSSTALK)

CARDOZA: ... and I were the head of -- the head of his trust? There`s not enough evidence here yet, Nancy. I really hope the district attorney has more evidence.

GRACE: Get your story straight!

CARDOZA: God, my stories are very straight, Nancy.

GRACE: Right, ice freezing, rear-ended, `80-ish.

(CROSSTALK)

CARDOZA: There`s not enough evidence.

GRACE: You know what? Let`s go to Bud Whitney, the voice of the victim. He is married to Frank Craig`s niece.

Bud, thank you for being with us. When did the family first become suspicious?

BUD WHITNEY, MARRIED TO ALLEGED VICTIM`S NIECE: Well, after the first accident, we visited Frank in the hospital. And, you know, Frank was in the hospital for six months, because of broken legs, broken sternum, broken pelvis, arm paralyzed. And he told us at that point that the accident was not an accident. He told us that Doug Porter had turned off the air bags in the front seat of the car and told him the safety belt was broken.

GRACE: How did he end up back in the car after that accident?

WHITNEY: Well, Frank really wanted to build a museum, and he really wanted to trust Doug Porter. He had some friends...

GRACE: OK, hold on. We`ll be right back for the rest of that story. Thank you, Bud.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a total accident. He was a great guy, and I just don`t believe it was an accident. He was trying to save him, and he just couldn`t. He was an old guy, and it was really hard for him to get him out of the seat belt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A pastor who administered to thousands over the years charged with murder. Is it an attempt to get his hands on a million-dollar trust? With us, the victim`s nephew, Bud Whitney.

But very quickly, Dr. Daniel Spitz, the first accident with the elderly gentleman caused a crushed pelvis. How painful is that?

DANIEL SPITZ, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Oh, that`s very painful. Any broken bones are very painful, and certainly that caused him to have serious difficulties after that, left him unable to walk, I think, since that accident.

GRACE: Back to Bud Whitney, Mr. Whitney, again, being the voice of the victim tonight. After this first crash into an oak tree, I believe it was, he told you guys this was no accident. So how did your wife`s uncle end up back in the car with this guy, a preacher, no less?

WHITNEY: Well, he was paralyzed, and Doug had power of attorney. And Doug took over the care, and took Frank out of the rehab hospital ahead of time, and put Frank in his own house. And Frank had very inadequate care.

We asked Frank to come and live with us, but Frank`s an independent sort and he would not do that. But he really trusted Doug Porter. He wanted the museum built. He didn`t know that Doug Porter had already been spending his money. Doug started spending his money...

GRACE: Spending it on what?

WHITNEY: ... on his house. He built a compound above the city of Hickman, and he built it on his house. He paid his kids` salaries. He paid his wife. He bought a phone system for the church. He took a trip to Monterey with all of the staff of the church...

GRACE: On your uncle`s money, the uncle, 85 years old, now dead. We will be watching the trial, Mr. Whitney. Thank you for being with us.

Tonight, we stop to remember Army Chief Warrant Officer Miles Henderson, 24, Ft. Myers, Florida. An aviator, he was in Iraq three weeks after marrying his new wife, Artis, before he was killed. Miles Henderson, American hero.

Thank you to our guests and to you. NANCY GRACE signing off. Until tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, good night, friend.

END