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Hussein Execution: Watching the Clock

Aired December 29, 2006 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Fredricka Whitfield, in today for Kyra Phillips.

Iraqi law forbids executions during religious holidays, but a significant Islamic feast day begins in just a few hours. What role could the clock and the calendar play in the last hours of Saddam Hussein?

It's the top story today in the NEWSROOM.

LEMON: Saddam Hussein, is this the end of the line for the dictator? We're using the reach of all of our resources on this story.

This hour, reports from CNN's Aneesh Raman and Arwa Damon, both live in Baghdad. Our Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon, and Elaine Quijano is in Crawford, Texas, with the president.

Well, let's start in Baghdad, where Saddam Hussein will very likely die this weekend. We begin right now with Aneesh Raman in Baghdad, where it's late Friday evening -- Aneesh.

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, good afternoon.

At least two lawyers for Saddam Hussein are confirming to CNN that he has been handed over from U.S. custody to Iraqi authorities. This is one of the final steps that will take place before Saddam Hussein is executed.

That said, U.S. State Department officials are denying those reports, saying Saddam Hussein is still in U.S. custody. There are, though, security reasons why the U.S. would wait until the last possible minute to acknowledge Saddam's hand-over.

The reason, because it suggests his location. Saddam Hussein has been held at Camp Cropper for the past few years. He will be likely be transported at some point to where the execution will take place.

So the mere admittance that this hand-over has happened suggests on a security level where Saddam Hussein might be. But again, from Saddam Hussein's defense lawyers, that hand-over has taken place.

What comes next? All indications on the ground are that the execution of Saddam Hussein is imminent. We have heard from a Shia member of parliament who said inside the highly fortified Green Zone, he has himself seen the gallows where this execution might take place. He says there a cleric, a judge and a doctor are standing by, waiting for word from the government.

The government itself, we understand, has been in an emergency session. The prime minister and members of his cabinet discussing how and when this execution could take place.

Of course, there are immense security concerns to be dealt with by this government in terms of expected reaction that could come on the streets of Iraq. It is likely they will extend a curfew that kicks in regular time shortly here in Baghdad.

But again, suggestions from within the government that this execution is now all but imminent -- Don.

LEMON: Yes, Aneesh. And Saddam Hussein's defense attorney joined us early -- one of his defense attorneys -- and spoke about the significance of Saturday.

Talk to us about that, please.

RAMAN: We are embarking on a very holy period for Muslims worldwide. Eid, the festival of Eid, for Sunni Muslims that begins on Saturday.

In Iraqi penal code, it is forbidden for a defendant to be executed during a Muslim holiday. Saddam is a Sunni. Tomorrow is a Muslim holiday.

We do understand, though, again, from that same parliament member, that the government is seeking a fatwa from clerics within Iraq that would give them religious cover, if you will, of extraordinary circumstances to perhaps carry out this execution tomorrow despite the fact that the Sunni Eid begins. Again, though, we are still hours away from midnight. There are suggestions within Iraq that this execution could take place today, before Friday ends. That would escape any controversy that could take place if Saddam is executed during that Eid holiday -- Don.

LEMON: All right. Aneesh Raman in Baghdad.

Thank you.

WHITFIELD: So news about Saddam Hussein spreading like wildfire, not just in Iraq, but around the world. Let's find out, though, how Iraqis there in Baghdad might be reacting to all of this news.

That's where we find our Arwa Damon -- Arwa.

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, really the capital in the streets of Baghdad, in fact, across the entire country, Iraqis are bracing themselves for the execution of their former dictator. There are grave concerns that his death will spark more retaliatory violence. There are concerns that if his execution does take place -- as Aneesh was just mentioning, we are entering a religious period, a religious Muslim holiday -- if his execution does take place before that holiday or as that holiday commences, that that will only further inflame the situation. There are grave concerns amongst the Iraqi people that his death will deepen sectarian divides.

By that same token, though, there are many here that are looking forward to seeing their former dictator brought to justice. They say for them, this will be closure to the end of what was a brutal era in Iraqi history.

But, again, in the streets of Baghdad tonight, the rumors are swirling as to when and where this will take place and what sort of images Iraqis will be seeing on their TV screens -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And so for those, Arwa, who are not able to be right in front of the television screen, how are they relying on getting information about what is taking place?

DAMON: Well, Fredricka, it is rather surprising how fast information does swirl around Baghdad. The rumor mill here churns very fast.

Everyone pretty much does have a cell phone. And that is probably how most people will be receiving their information, if they do not see it on television. Word of mouth here also travels very, very fast.

And again, a lot of people, though, will be following this on Al- Iraqiya. That is the state-owned TV station here that is expected to be breaking the news.

It is also interesting to point out, though, that, for example, Shia TV has been broadcasting news saying that Iraq's former dictator, Saddam Hussein, is in Iraqi custody. They have been saying that this is going to be the end of an era, the end of a former tyrant. Sunni television, though, for those Iraqis that are following Sunni TV, very little coverage of the impending execution of Saddam Hussein -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Arwa Damon, thanks so much.

LEMON: With Hussein's execution all but certain, one big unknown remains. Apart from timing, how will the toppled dictator's death be met around the world? How will Iraqis react? American troops in Iraq are bracing.

Let's go to the Pentagon and our correspondent, Barbara Starr -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, hello to you.

There are 134,000 U.S. troops on the front lines in Iraq. Security is always high for the U.S. military, but even more stepped up security now with this impending execution of Saddam Hussein.

But for the U.S. military, commanders tell us they are ready. They expect, they do anticipate possibly some demonstrations, some violence in the hours following any public announcement of the execution of Saddam Hussein. But overall, will it change the course of the war? Nobody in the U.S. military's really counting on that.

The feeling is that in recent months, this war has moved far beyond any -- any attribution or involvement of Saddam Hussein's regime, that that's really been discounted. It has now largely become a sectarian war, Shia-on-Sunni violence, sectarian violence between the two sects, and that's really what the U.S. feels it's dealing with.

So their anticipation, they tell us, is that the recent uptick in violence, which has now been going on for some weeks and months, they don't really see any letting up of it at this point. And that, of course, is why President Bush is considering a number of strategies, a number of changes in his Iraq policy.

That is what many U.S. military commanders are now focusing on, looking ahead in the next several days to the president's expected speech, what he may announce about a surge in troops for Iraq, a renewed commitment to economic and political progress in the country, and what marks -- benchmarks the U.S. may try and get the new Iraqi government to meet. Because the feeling here is that there really must be some progress on the Iraqi side in order to really get a handle on the violence in that country -- Don.

LEMON: All right. Barbara Starr at the Pentagon.

Thank you very much for that.

Few people have been as involved with the former dictator's trials as Greg Kehoe. He's an American lawyer enlisted to advise judges and prosecutors in the case. He joins us now live.

We've heard from one of Saddam Hussein's defense attorneys. He is saying that, indeed, that he has been turned over to the Iraqis.

Tell us about the significance in all of this that's just unfolding.

GREG KEHOE, ATTORNEY, TRIAL ADVISER: I think it's very significant. Obviously, the Americans -- he was being held in American custody, although with the -- under the legal authority of the Iraqis. But in a very, very dangerous situation for everyone involved, they want to hand this over in a safe situation.

I do not think that the United States would be handing him over to the Iraqis at this point if the execution were not imminent. They would not allow Saddam to stay there for, say, a week in their custody before the execution was meted out.

So I think just looking at this particular event, I think it's highly significant. I think the clock is ticking for Saddam Hussein.

LEMON: Yes. What do you mean by that when you say the clock is ticking? You mean soon?

KEHOE: I think it's going to be very seen. I don't think that we're talking about days and days I think it's going to be very soon.

They probably want to do it at a time after the curfew. Obviously, there are some sensitivities about Eid. They may, in fact, get some dispensation from a fatwa.

All those things in play. But putting all those things together, I still don't think that the United States would be handing Saddam over to the Iraqis if this -- at this juncture if the execution were not imminent.

LEMON: Yes. And you talked to us earlier about Saddam Hussein and secret trials, and what have you, and there's something that's quoted from you here.

You said, "For decades, there have been secret courts where people were spirited out in the middle of the night, without counsel, without due process, and executed, tortured and sent to prisons throughout this country, and no one knew whatever happened to them."

Now, all of a sudden, you have Saddam Hussein in this very public trial, state television now reporting that he has been turned over. But then you heard our reporter on the ground there saying Sunni television really not reporting in all of this.

Explain the significance and give us some context about what may be happening in the country and what people may be thinking over there.

KEHOE: Well, there's no question that there are many Hussein loyalists that are still living in Baghdad and elsewhere and going up to places in his hometown in Tikrit. Many people are still loyal to Saddam Hussein, and I do expect the uptick in violence to take place there.

That being said, national -- the national station, Al-Arabiya, is going to distribute this information. The world is going to know about it.

Your correspondent just made a note about how quickly the word travels throughout Baghdad. I can guarantee you that that is absolutely true.

People are going to find out about this. People know what's going on. They watch this on television. And it's not going to be a surprise to anybody when, in fact, it does take place.

LEMON: All right. Greg Kehoe.

Thank you so much, sir.

KEHOE: You're welcome.

WHITFIELD: Well, Gerald Ford took potshots from comics, real shots from wood-be assassins, and managed to survive them all and built quite the diverse legacy. Well, today and over the next four days, many people are honoring him. You're now looking at live pictures of his family's church in California, where services will begin in the next hour.

Stay with CNN for continuing coverage on the passing of a president.

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LEMON: Bonnie Schneider, this wicked weather just won't quit, will it?

(WEATHER REPORT)

WHITFIELD: And now there's been a lot of conflicting information about Saddam Hussein and whether, indeed, his execution is imminent. Let's go to Ed Henry, who is in Washington, who apparently has just spoken to one of the attorneys.

What are you learning, Ed?

ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Good afternoon, Fred.

There are those conflicting reports about exactly where Saddam Hussein is. But I just got off the telephone with one of Hussein's defense attorneys, Giovanni Di Stefano.

He is in Rome. And by telephone, he told me that, in fact, Saddam Hussein was -- that he was officially informed by the U.S. military just in the last couple of hours that the former Iraqi dictator has, in fact, been transferred to Iraqi authorities for his execution.

Di Stefano also added that a credible source has informed him that Saddam Hussein will be executed "very shortly." He added, "In the next couple of hours." The attorney refused to identify the source that gave him this information but said he considers the information so authoritative that he has now granted a power of attorney for someone to officially receive Saddam Hussein's body after the execution.

The attorney added to me, "We hope and pray he is wrong and the power of attorney has to be destroyed." But he said he has to operate under the assumption that this information is correct, that Saddam Hussein will be executed within the next couple of hours. And he has to make arrangements for Saddam Hussein's body to be transferred to his family in Jordan.

The attorney told me that he received this official notification of Hussein's transfer to Iraqi authorities at 4:47 p.m. Rome time. He says he got it in the form of an e-mail from a U.S. military official telling him that Saddam Hussein has, in fact, been transferred to Iraqi authorities for his execution and that, secondly, this attorney, Giovanni Di Stefano, is saying that, in fact, he has another source who he deems credible who is telling him that Saddam Hussein will be executed within "the next couple of hours." Obviously, we will be in constant contact with Giovanni Di Stefano. Suzanne Malveaux and I will be anchoring "THE SITUATION ROOM" at 4:00, when we will have the very latest -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And Ed, this attorney in Italy, as you mentioned -- are any of Saddam Hussein's attorneys in Iraq -- is he able to get any kind of personal instruction or guidance, or this whole issue of power of attorney taking place there in Baghdad?

HENRY: I am not aware of Saddam Hussein being able to have access to his attorneys now. The impression I got from my telephone interview with Giovanni Di Stefano -- and again, obviously, as you stress, it is important to note that he is just one of several attorneys that Saddam Hussein has.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

HENRY: But I got the impression from Giovanni Di Stefano that he is no longer having any contact with Saddam Hussein at this point because he is now out of U.S. hands. And as a result, he has now granted this power of attorney to someone else. He would not identify this third party in Baghdad to be prepared to receive Saddam Hussein's body.

So -- and also important to stress, as you did at the very top, that there are conflicting reports about whether Saddam Hussein really is still in U.S. hands and not in Iraqi hands. But what we have now is that one of Saddam Hussein's defense attorneys is saying that he has been told by the U.S. military that, in fact, Saddam Hussein has been turned over to the Iraqi authorities for his execution -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right.

Ed Henry, thanks so much for that update from Washington.

Well, let's get a little bit more insight about how all of this works. Because all of this is taking place without a lot of our expertise about how this execution might be carried out there in Iraq or anywhere else, we are instead now joined by Mark Ellis, who is the executive director of the International Bar Association.

So perhaps you could help make some sense of what appear to be a lot of conflicting reports.

So, if the attorneys are saying that, indeed, these instructions have taken place, the hand-over to Iraqi authorities have taken place, in about how many hours or days are we talking before this execution might actually be carried out?

MARK ELLIS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL BAR ASSOCIATION: Well, the final stage for the execution to be carried out is the transfer, the transfer from the U.S. military, who have been -- at the behest of the Iraqi government -- been in control of the security of Saddam Hussein and the other defendants. It is up to the Iraqi government to make the decision when that transfer occurs. If the report is true and the transfer has occurred, then the clock really is beginning to tick now, because now it's just a matter of time. The Iraqi code is very straightforward as to the next steps as to what will occur in the execution of Saddam Hussein.

WHITFIELD: If this code is so straightforward, then why is there also a conflict of interpretation of this Iraqi penal code when it comes down to instructions saying no execution's taking place on a holiday? And here is a holiday about to begin tomorrow, and now we're hearing rumblings of an execution taking place as early as tomorrow Iraqi time?

ELLIS: Yes, it's an excellent point. And I hope that the Iraqi government stands firm as to the law, because it's very important that this tribunal and the Iraqi government shows consistency and transparency interpreting the law.

But we've not always seen that. In the Dujail and Anfal trial, we've seen some inconsistencies in how the court and the government have interpreted these rules. So I suspect that's what they're trying to figure out right now, is, is it consistent with the law to move forward with this -- with the sentencing immediately, or do they have to wait?

WHITFIELD: Well, it's interesting, too, that one of the -- or the justice minister is also being quoted as saying that January 26th would actually be the more ideal time for an execution to take place because it would be after the 30-day period. That was instructed by the appellate court. And at the same time, January 7th, we're hearing from others, might be more appropriate because that would be the end of the holiday.

So, you know, when you talk about the integrity of this new government, you're also seeing a lot of infighting when it comes down to interpreting what is right, what is fair, what is just.

ELLIS: Absolutely. And I think it's important, though, for the government and for the tribunal to not be seen as rushing to judgment on this. They shouldn't be seen as being vindictive towards any defendant, nor should this be based on retribution.

This has to be based on the rule of law, consistency in interpreting the law, and following the code. And so it's very important that they don't view this as simply a political maneuvering, that they stick by the law. And they've not always done that, which is why, I think, people have perceived this whole process as being tainted and not meeting the international standards of fairness.

WHITFIELD: Is another indicator of not following the rule of law that if Saddam Hussein is going to be executed, it would be by hanging, which is reserved more for common criminals, and an execution by firing squad would be more appropriate for a head of state, a commander in chief, a dictator?

ELLIS: Yes. And this, too, is one of the interpretations that's occurring. It ultimately would be the government's decision on whether or not he will be hung or face a firing squad. The government has been very clear, though, on this. He will be hung.

WHITFIELD: You see real problems -- do you see real problems resulting from all of this, all these conflicting reports, this confusion over the right way to do things?

ELLIS: I do, only because it suggests that the Iraqi government is keen on, again, pushing this whole process in a way that is probably not consistent with what we'd like to see. And they don't need to do this.

They need to take a step back and make sure that they're following the rules and the law. Because remember, this is important for Iraq as it -- as it regains its position in the international community. These trials are exceedingly important. They have to do it right.

WHITFIELD: Mark Ellis, executive director of the International Bar Association.

Thanks for your time.

ELLIS: You're welcome.

LEMON: As a nation prepares to honor a man we knew as president, a personal glimpse of Gerald R. Ford from the family that shares decades of togetherness.

And the "if" has been decided, it's the when we still don't know. We're watching every development as Saddam Hussein approaches his execution.

Right now as we go to break, you're looking at the streets of Baghdad tonight.

Stay with CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Hello, everyone, I'm Don Lemon at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.

WHITFIELD: And I'm Fredricka Whitfield in today for Kyra Phillips.

The gallows are up, the witnesses are standing by. Now, it's up to the Iraqi government to determine exactly when Saddam Hussein will go to his death.

We're watching this developing story in the NEWSROOM.

LEMON: We've got eyes and ears all over Baghdad, waiting for news on what appears to be the imminent execution of the former Iraqi president.

Here's what we know up to now. Saddam Hussein, in American custody for more than two years, has reportedly been transferred to Iraqi control. That's seen as a sign that the wheels are turning on the final stage of the death sentence. Tomorrow begins a week-long religious holiday in Iraq, a time when, by law, executions are barred.

Now, what happens after Hussein hangs? Well, that's hard to say, but military and security forces are bracing for an intense public reaction and a flare-up in sectarian violence. News about Saddam Hussein and the developments that presumably mark the final hours of his life, spreading throughout Baghdad and across Iraq.

Let's go to the capital now and CNN's Arwa Damon -- Arwa.

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, that's right. In the streets of Baghdad, in fact, across all of Iraq, the entire nation is bracing itself for the execution of their former leader, Saddam Hussein.

A lot of anticipation amongst some Iraqis, Iraqis that suffered the most under his regime, especially the Sunni and Kurdish population -- the Shia and Kurdish population here, rather. They are looking forward to seeing their former dictator brought to justice. The Sunni population here, for the most part, viewing this trial, its entire proceeding, as being fundamentally unfair.

But a lot of apprehension across the board about any sort of violence that may follow his death. Here in the streets of Baghdad, we are hearing rumors fly as to when this execution may take place. A lot of Iraqis right now at home are following state-owned al Iraqiya television. It has been broadcasting a message that is saying that Saddam HUNT: is right now in Iraqi custody. That has not been confirmed to us by the Iraqi government just yet as far as we're aware.

According to an aide to Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, the top tier, all of Iraq's ministers are currently in high-level meetings.

But on the streets of Baghdad, in the streets of the capitol, a lot of apprehension as to what happen after Saddam Hussein is executed, Don.

LEMON: Arwa Damon, thank you.

Arwa Damon and a wealth of CNN reporters, following this story for you all day right here on CNN.

WHITFIELD: Some pretty frightening weather out here. Let's check in with Bonnie Schneider in the Severe Weather Center -- Bonnie.

(WEATHER REPORT)

WHITFIELD: All right. Bonnie, thanks so much for that warning. Over the next several days, Gerald Ford will be honored by presidents, prime ministers and princes in monumental settings. But official mourning for the man who once described himself as a Ford, not a Lincoln, begins with a small service at the family church.

CNN's Dan Simon is outside that church in Palm Desert, California -- Dan.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Fredricka.

Well, I hear the band practicing behind me, the stage, if you will, is set to mark this solemn occasion. In about an hour from now, Mr. Ford's body will arrive here at St. Margaret's Episcopal Church. There will be an arrival ceremony.

We are told during a briefing just a short while ago that they are calling for absolute silence during that ceremony. The Marine Corps Band will be playing. Mrs. Ford and her children will emerge from the motorcade. Of course, the entire family will be here. Then there's going to be a brief -- a brief service for family and close friends inside the church.

You can see that they're setting up inside right now. You see the wreath and the band setting up inside the church.

And then at about 4:00, Mr. Ford will lie in repose inside the church. They're going to allow the public the opportunity to -- for folks to pay their respects to the former president.

At the Indian Wells Tennis Center about ten miles away from here, they're asking folks to go over there because they simply don't have enough folks -- or enough parking spots for people to show up here at the church.

And the church is going to remain open all night long. They want to allow everyone in the community to have the opportunity to come to the church and say good-bye to the former president.

In terms of what's going to happen over the next few days, Mr. Ford will be flown to Washington, D.C., where he will lie in state on Sunday and Monday. On Tuesday, there will be a service at the National Cathedral. And then on Wednesday, Fredricka, Mr. Ford's body will be flown to Michigan, where he will ultimately be laid to rest.

Again, here at the church, at 12:20 local time, the motorcade is expected to arrive and the arrival ceremony will begin. And plans will officially be under way or things will be under way to lay Mr. Ford to rest.

Back to you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Dan Simon, thanks so much from Palm Desert, California.

LEMON: Well, tomorrow the former president's body will be flown to Washington for much more elaborate services and rituals. CNN's Brianna Keiler is standing by with details for us -- Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, President Ford's body is expected to arrive at Andrews Air Force Base tomorrow night at about 5:20 p.m. And then, as that motorcade makes its way to the U.S. Capitol, it's going to pause at the World War II Memorial to pay tribute to President Ford's service in the Navy during World War II. Then his body is expected to arrive here at the U.S. Capitol at about 6:30 p.m.

Between tomorrow night and Tuesday morning, when the casket will be moved to the National Cathedral for a service, people will be coming here to pay tribute. In fact, they'll be congregating about a block away at Maryland and 3rd Street.

And the National Park Service is out here now, going through preparations to accommodate all of these people. They're going to be funneled into some of these overflow areas behind this fence here. This is the entrance to the -- it says on this reader board, the Ford Viewing Entrance. And there's really a serpentine arrangement of ropes here. So people will be funneled through this, as well as other similar arrangements.

And then taking a look here down the National Mall, these are two temporary fences that the National Park Service installed earlier today. These will just be large crowds of people, if they are so inundated with people that they need to utilize these, as well as on the next block. These are contingency plans that were in place for the President -- or pardon me, the funerals of President Ronald Reagan as well as Rosa Parks. They're just trying to make things move as smoothly as possible with so many thousands of people expected -- Don.

LEMON: Brianna, loved by a lot of folks and I'm sure people are wondering if they want to participate or get involved, what should they do? Do you have any advice on that?

KEILAR: Well, if people do want to come and pay their respects here, they have about two and a half days to do that, starting tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. until midnight. And then on Sunday and Monday, they can come by between 9:00 and 6:00 p.m.

They must keep in mind they could be here for hours, expected wait times of between one and six hours. And really, judging by the funeral of President Ronald Reagan, they'll just have a brief moment to pay their respects.

And of course, so many thousands of people are expected. Some of these people very high-level leaders. President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, so this is a national security event. A lot of precautions are being taken.

And for those people who will be coming to pay their respects, some of the don'ts -- bags, cannot be any larger than 14x13x4 inches. So, only bring small bags. Also no audio or video recording devices as well as no guns, knives, weapons, no razor blades, that sort of thing. And no mace, no aerosols like that. And no food or beverages. No cans -- Don.

LEMON: All right. Brianna Keilar, thank you so much.

WHITFIELD: Well, as the nation prepares to honor a man we knew as president, a personal glimpse of Gerald R. Ford from a family that shares decades of togetherness.

LEMON: And more on our top story this hour. The if has been decided. It's the when we still don't know. We're watching every development as Saddam Hussein approaches his execution. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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WHITFIELD: Very few current members of Congress knew and worked with former President Ford as well as Representative John Dingell. Despite their political party differences, Congressman Dingell, a Democrat and his wife, Debra, have been friends with the Fords for years.

They join us today from Washington. Good to see both of you and our deepest condolences.

REP. JOHN DINGELL (D-MICH): Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Well, Congressman, let me ask you, how do you suppose Mrs. Ford and the family are holding up right now?

DINGELL: Well, it's obviously a very trying time for them. And equally, it is a time when there's great business, pressure in terms of seeing to it that the president is properly laid to rest, and that they address the matter with proper courtesy and dignity for all concerned. But Betty Ford and the family are wonderful people. And I'm sure that they will do it well.

WHITFIELD: And Mrs. Dingell, how concerned had you been over the past year and a half when all of us in the public had been learning about President Ford in and out of the hospital and his various brushes with health issues?

DEBORAH DINGELL, FORD FAMILY FRIEND: Well, I think we've all been deeply concerned about him. We just saw him in Ann Arbor probably about 18 months, two years ago, and he's been in our prayers.

I think people were not surprised at this point, but the two of them had a great love affair. They loved each other very much. And it's just a very sad time for she and their family. And the country.

WHITFIELD: Yes. It really is. I mean, it's been so refreshing and beautiful to hear so many people talk about them as a family, them as a couple, and not only their devotion to each other and their devotion to family life, but a devotion to their lifestyle of just trying to be as normal as possible, as low key as possible, and perhaps Congressman, we're seeing that underscored by learning more and more about the president's plans on keeping his funeral very simple by presidential standards. Something he's been working on for decades.

J. DINGELL: Well, my friends who know the president and talked to him quite frequently have indicated to me that he indicated that he wanted it simple and that, in fact, he had done a great deal of work to see to it that it took the proper form in which he could be comfortable, and I believe that the family was also involved in these judgments very closely.

WHITFIELD: And even details like he didn't want the kind of horse-drawn cason that most folks typically associate with a presidential funeral, but instead a motorcade, and he wanted the music of his alma mater, the University of Michigan, to be played as well.

How representative of the former president is this? Are these touches, the man that you knew?

J. DINGELL: Well, he was really very simple, uncomplicated man. And during his time on the -- rather at the White House and also during his time in the Congress, was a man who was very friendly, very simple, very friendly, but who sought no particular errors to be shown for him or to him.

WHITFIELD: And maybe, Congressman, you can tell us about the secret to your friendship, you being a Democrat, he a Republican. You all were friends when he was in the House of Representatives and that carried on into his presidency.

We have some tape of how it was described that he maintained the kind of friendship he did with Tip O'Neil. Let's listen to that, and then perhaps you can describe the secrets behind your friendship after that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GERALD FORD, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Tip O'Neil and I were strong adversaries, and we used to debate on the floor of the House many times because of his job and my job. But when we were through, we'd go out and have a beer together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Was it like that between you and the president?

J. DINGELL: Well, happily, it was true not only with me, but with most of Gerry's colleagues. We knew how in those days, and it was part of the system, to get along in our private times and to fight very hard for what we believed, but also to come to the necessary compromises and conciliations and concessions so that the system worked a and the Congress was able to function as it should in the broad public interest.

WHITFIELD: And Mrs. Dingell, how will you as a couple, as a family, try to help honor and pay homage to the former president?

D. DINGELL: Well, tomorrow the family will arrive here. We'll participate in the ceremonies over the next few days and go to Michigan. But actually, I think in all sad times like this you try to be there for the family afterwards and certainly the University of Michigan is very much part of his legacy.

You heard about the music earlier. We'll be celebrating his life there, and we'll continue to have (INAUDIBLE) Gerald Ford Public Policy School, and they've changed, I think -- I think one of the things you have to say about the Fords is that they were real.

And the realness that they brought to public life and the bipartisanship that they brought let us, I hope, Washington recapture some of that as we begin this new session and live and remember his legacy.

WHITFIELD: Debbie Dingell, Congressman John Dingell, thanks so much for your time.

J. DINGELL: Thank you very much.

WHITFIELD: A military honor guard will be part of today's memorial services for the former President Ford. The armed services will play a prominent role throughout the six-day mourning period.

CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has more on that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Whether it is at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, a funeral for a young service member killed in Iraq, or the state funeral for a former commander in chief, the military renders honors with precision, discipline and tradition. The family and the casket are never left unattended.

Major General Galen Jackman escorted Mrs. Reagan throughout the president's funeral in 2004. He also directed hundreds of troops through their somber duties.

MAJ. GEN. GALEN JACKMAN, FRM. CMDR. DC MILITARY DIST: America saw them on television as they will see the men and women today and this week performing this. Many of these soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and coast guardsmen are veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan.

STARR: They are moments often etched in history.

JACKMAN: The transfer of the casket at 16th and Constitution, the procession of the casket to the Capitol, at the Reagan Library, when the United States Army Chorus sang "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" as the sun was setting, very memorable experience for me.

STARR: At President Ford's funeral, as with President Reagan's, the military will make sure the former first lady is watched over and cared for.

JACKMAN: There were times where, you know, she needed a little bit of support. These things tend to be a bit tiring. And so she needed some support and someone to kind of lean on during the funeral. STARR (on camera): Here at Arlington Cemetery, there are some 30 funerals every day. Veterans of World War II and Vietnam and, of course, those who have fallen on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan.

So for the U.S. military, sadly, they practice the funeral honors that they will render to President Ford almost every day.

Barbara Starr, CNN, Arlington National Cemetery.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: More on our other top story, hear from the former dictator of Iraq, his own words about facing death. We dug this one out of the archives. You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

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LEMON: What does Saddam Hussein think about his pending death? Well, in a farewell message posted this week on the Internet, Hussein said he faces, quote, martyrdom with a content and peaceful soul. He also reflected publicly back in October 1990, three months after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. CNN's Bernard Shaw interviewed the then Iraqi dictator about his legacy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BERNARD SHAW, CNN ANCHOR: President Saddam, we are all mortal beings. When you die, how do you want to be remembered?

SADDAM HUSSEIN, IRAQ PRESIDENT (through translator): My overriding preoccupation is how I'm going to face god and the true believer is always dreaming that god almighty is satisfied with him.

And it is important to me that good people on this land will have understood me in the right way and as sufficiently (INAUDIBLE) as possible).

And I am confident, indeed, I believe that the people -- the great people of Iraq and the people of the glorious Arab nations will remember us with -- favorably, will remember us favorably with good memories.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: That was an interview with CNN's Bernard Shaw back in 1990.

The clock is ticking on his death sentence, but will Saddam Hussein really go to the gallows on holiest day of the Hajj? We'll take you back to Baghdad live for the latest.

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