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Hussein Transferred From U.S. to Iraqi Custody; Somali Prime Minister to Talk to Clans, Warlords for Peace
Aired December 29, 2006 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
COLLEEN MCEDWARDS, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: His final days could now be final hours. There's plenty of speculation, but no confirmation yet on when Saddam Hussein will face the gallows.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Retracing sacred steps. Millions of Muslims gather at the site of Mohammed's final sermon, the first major rite of an annual holy pilgrimage.
MCEDWARDS: And animals that begin life in a lab could one day wind up as your dinner. A preliminary U.S. government ruling paves the way for cloned cuisine.
It is 8:00 p.m. in Baghdad, and in Mecca, Saudi Arabia.
Hello and welcome to our report broadcast around the globe.
I'm Colleen McEdwards.
HOLMES: And I'm Michael Holmes.
Wherever you're watching, this is YOUR WORLD TODAY.
All right. Let's begin with several major developments in Iraq, as the country awaits the execution of Saddam Hussein.
CNN has confirmed now that the former president has been transferred from U.S. to Iraqi custody. And an Iraqi judge has told The Associated Press news agency that Hussein will be taken to the gallows by Saturday at the latest.
Let's go right now to Aneesh Raman, standing by in Baghdad.
Aneesh, as you and I know, Baghdad is rife with rumors at the best of times. And this is certainly going to be no exception. What do we actually know? Just being transferred into Iraqi custody is significant, but it doesn't necessarily mean imminent, does it?
ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It does not, but it is, Michael, a dramatic step forward. No one here has really voiced any assumption Saddam Hussein will linger in Iraqi custody for sometime before the execution takes place.
As you mentioned, CNN can now confirm, having spoken to one of Saddam's defense lawyers, that they've been told in an e-mail by U.S. military officials there is no need for them to come into the capital, that, in fact, Saddam has been handed over from U.S. to Iraqi custody. As you mentioned, this does not mean that the execution is imminent, but now time even becomes even more critical.
The hand-over to Iraqi authorities is one of the final steps that takes place before Saddam is executed. We don't know the time period, but now you enter another realm of rampant speculation on the ground.
There has been an emerging cultural hurdle as to whether the Iraqi government would execute Saddam Hussein during the Muslim holy period of Eid. For Sunni Muslims, of which Saddam is one, that period begins tomorrow.
It is now 8:00 p.m. local time. If you go by that argument, Saddam has just mere hours to live. Potentially, this execution taking place before midnight, local time, here.
The other end is that perhaps this could take place tomorrow. We have seen statements from Saddam Hussein's lawyers suggesting their understanding of the situation is that this execution will happen Saturday.
As you mentioned, The Associated Press reporting that a judge has now essentially confirmed that Saddam could be killed as early as tomorrow. All of this suggests a very swift execution that could come from here on in.
But we have been holding back, if you will, during the day, amid this speculation, that as you mentioned has reached near obsession on the ground since Saddam's death sentence was upheld, was because that hand-over had not happened yet. Officials throughout the day said his status is still the same, he is still in U.S. custody.
But again, we can now confirm, just in the past few minutes, that Saddam -- we don't know when it took place -- we can confirm it, though, in the past few minutes, Saddam has been handed over from U.S. to Iraqi officials. That really means, as we've seen prior to this moment, this execution could now happen at any moment -- Michael.
HOLMES: It does seem that many people have opinions on the timing. Saturday or not Saturday. Some in the cabinet want to put off for a couple of weeks.
It's interesting that the Iraqi criminal code seems to stipulate that the death penalty can't be carried out on religious holidays, or holidays of -- connected with the religion of the condemned person, is my reading of it. And also that relatives need to be notified.
How does all of that play into this?
RAMAN: Well, it murks (ph) in to what we've seen before, sort of legal loopholes that the political establishment has found in order in what we've gotten the sense towards a swift execution. As you mentioned, Iraqi criminal code prohibits the execution of prisoners during Muslim holidays. For a Sunni like Saddam, that holiday of Eid would begin tomorrow.
As far as I understand it, the Iraqi high tribunal statute, thought, which at times, officials have said, supersedes Iraqi criminal code, at times not, doesn't specify exactly when the executions can and cannot take place.
Now, as to your other point, relatives, we understand that Saddam's lawyers have been contacted by one of Saddam's daughters who, by the way, is on one of the most wanted lists in Iraq for corruption. As to whether or not that could be worked out for her to come here, it seems highly unlikely that will happen.
It seems that the request or the possibility is all that has to be offered. There is no guarantee that that has to take place.
We understand at least one of Saddam's defense lawyers who is already present in the capital will be present at this execution. His chief lawyer right now is in Amman. And another lawyer we've heard from today is in Qatar. So you can imagine they, as well as everyone on the ground, are still trying to figure out when this will happen and adjust accordingly -- Michael.
HOLMES: And meanwhile, Iraqis are obviously trying to just get through each day as they can. But one imagines that there is heightened tension there at the moment.
RAMAN: This has been a country on edge since the appellate court upheld Saddam's death sentence just days ago. As I mentioned, everyone on the streets has been speculating, not only as to when this will happen, but whether it should happen. Even those Iraqis who feel that they will have a sense of vindication to see Saddam face justice, to see Saddam executed, do wonder whether the time is right, whether the country is simply in too much civil and sectarian strife for this execution to be carried out, whether it will further deepen divides, further increase violence.
But keep in mind, at this stage, the execution of Saddam is purely a political stage. The legal processes have now run out.
The trial ended. The sentence came. The appellate court upheld the death sentence.
In the political phase -- and I've met with a number of these Iraqi politicians in the government over the past few months -- you get the sense that they are as viscerally emotional about seeing Saddam face justice as the average Iraqi is. I recall a number of times covering the trial and having senior members of Iraq's government come up to us in the press corps afterwards and chastise us, they said, for allowing Saddam to essentially hijack the trial, to make speeches of his own.
You got the sense that even those moments were scarring to them because they had as much emotion as the Iraqis and they are the ones dictating when this execution will take place. And by all indications, they are looking for a swift and speedy execution -- Michael.
HOLMES: All right, Aneesh. Do stand by there at our bureau in Baghdad -- Colleen.
MCEDWARDS: We're mobilized there. We want to go now to Arwa Damon, who's in the streets of Baghdad, for more on this.
Arwa, what kinds of things have people been saying about this?
ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Colleen, everyone really here is gearing up for that big moment. They have been hearing all sorts of rumors throughout the day as to the specific timing of when this execution is going to take place.
The people that I've spoken to that are here around me all saying that they have heard that it is going to take place today. Perhaps tomorrow.
There are mixed emotions regarding the specific timing of this execution. Some people here feel that the Iraqi government should wait until after the religious period has passed. They believe that carrying out this death penalty at this point in time will only further inflame the situation on the ground here, that it will only further divide this nation along sectarian lines.
Others feel that carrying out this execution should happen today or early tomorrow, that it will actually be a gift as we enter this very religious holiday. But tensions are incredibly high on the ground here. Really, everyone just gearing up and waiting to hear that announcement, hoping, some of them that want to see Saddam Hussein hung, hoping to be able to see those images broadcast on television -- Colleen.
MCEDWARDS: Arwa, what -- what is the security situation? I mean, what extra things are in place, curfews, that kind of thing? What's the plan?
DAMON: Well, Colleen, right now, the Iraqi government has not yet announced a specific plan. Remember, today is Friday, so there was the regular Friday curfew that took place during prayer time. That takes place between 11:00 a.m. and 3:00 p.m. local time.
It is safe to assume, though, that once the announcement is made, the Iraqi government will probably put a curfew into place. This is the trend that we have seen in the past when there have been major announcements, major dates that are set to have taken place. We've seen 24-hour curfews banning both pedestrian and vehicle movement.
Now, the regular Baghdad curfew does go into place very shortly, at about 9:00 p.m. local time. Perhaps in the next 45 minutes. That might be when we can expect the Iraqi government to make an announcement.
That's the rumors that we are hearing on the streets right now. People really expecting to hear this, that the execution of their former dictator has happened at any point in time. But it's interesting.
When you speak to people, their initial reaction, at first they're hesitant to voice either their joy or their sorrow at seeing this. There is still some hesitancy until the event actually takes place in terms of expressing their emotions and how they're going to feel.
This is a very tense time. Everyone is expecting some sort of a reaction. People are fearing violence. They're fearing the worst. And right now, just waiting to see what the outcome is going to be -- Colleen.
MCEDWARDS: All right, Arwa. Stand by for us, if you would, please, with more on that.
But I want to bring in Mark Ellis right now, the executive director of the International Bar Association, just for some more analysis here.
This transfer of Saddam Hussein from the U.S. authorities to Iraqi authorities, I mean, characterize it for us. Final step? Initial step?
What are we talking about here?
MARK ELLIS, INTERNATIONAL BAR ASSOCIATION: Final step in the execution. There's no question about that. The fact that the U.S. military had the security and held Saddam Hussein was always at the behest of the Iraqi government. The Iraqi government always controlled when that transfer would take place.
It has now made that decision. The transfer has made -- has been made. The clock begins to tick. And as they say under the Iraqi law, it's a very straightforward process now as to what's going to happen.
MCEDWARDS: And just describe the details of that process.
ELLIS: Well, the government representatives will be in attendance. There will be someone from the Ministry of Interior, somebody from the Ministry of Health, a representative from -- other government representatives.
The lawyers from -- Saddam Hussein's lawyers could also be there if they want to be there. A doctor will be in attendance.
The death penalty will -- the execution will take place. The doctor will certify the death certificate. And then the process begins where the body is removed. The possibility of given back to the family. If not, the government will take care of the funeral arrangements.
HOLMES: If I can just jump in there, too, something we talked about with Aneesh earlier -- and you tell me what you know about this, with the Iraqi criminal code provisions that he was talking about, paragraph 290, that it cannot be carried out, an execution, on a religious holiday of significance to the accused.
Now, Saddam's a Sunni. Eid begins Saturday for Sunnis, Sunday for Shia. Is that something that could prevent it happening?
ELLIS: Well, clearly...
HOLMES: It's the law.
ELLIS: ... the criminal -- it is the law. The criminal code is quite clear on that. But we've seen time and time again in the Dujail case and in the Anfal case that the government and the court itself doesn't always -- they do not always follow verbatim the law.
They interpret it in a different -- in different ways. There's inconsistencies in the criminal code of the -- the Iraqi criminal code, in the statute of the tribunal. So there oftentimes is confusion.
But you're correct, it is clear that it should not take place on a religious holiday of the accused.
MCEDWARDS: Is there any legal reason that they want to move this forward and move it quickly? I mean, when they have this 30-day window? I mean, is there any sort of legal justification for what appears to be a stepping up of the process here?
ELLIS: No. I would say this now has shifted to the political decision. The legal aspects ended when the appeals court made its final ruling.
But the government, the Iraqi government, has made it very clear from the beginning that it expects Saddam Hussein to be executed. And they have also stated that they want him executed before the year end. And so this is consistent with what's happening right now.
There does seem to be a sense of a rush to judgment, a rush to execution. I don't know whether in the end that will taint the court's dealings. I'm not certain. But there's -- clearly, the government has said time and time again that it wants this execution to take place.
And, of course, this is one of the problems, is the perception that government has been behind the scenes interfering with the process. I don't think this helps.
HOLMES: Right. And there's already been criticism that the appeals process was very rapid in comparison to other countries.
ELLIS: Absolutely. And what's interesting, in the code, in the criminal code and the statute, the appeals court should provide a written decision stating why it affirmed and upheld the trial chamber's decisions. And so it will be interesting to see that.
We saw that with the trial chamber itself. People were criticizing the trial chamber for it being very chaotic and not following the procedural laws. But actually, when you read the decision itself, it was a legally sound decision, I think. And that, I think, helped the credibility of the court.
The appeals court will need to do the exact same thing.
HOLMES: Yes. Mark Ellis, International Bar Association.
Stick around, if you will, as we continue our coverage -- Colleen.
MCEDWARDS: Yes, we'll keep talking to Mark.
We do want to get back to Baghdad, though, and bring you more from there. We've got Aneesh Raman in the bureau, we've got Arwa Damon down at street level there for us.
Aneesh, let me start with you.
Just remind us, if you will, sort of the stage that they're at in the process right now as we understand it.
RAMAN: As we understand it, Colleen, Saddam Hussein has now been handed over from U.S. custody to Iraqi authorities. That confirming to CNN was a defense lawyer for Saddam Hussein, saying he got an e- mail from U.S. officials telling him he doesn't need to come into the country, that this hand-over is complete.
Why is that such a big deal? The hand-over essentially, as Mark just said, begins the clock, really, in earnest, for Saddam Hussein, leading up to the execution.
No one on the ground assumes Saddam Hussein will linger in Iraqi custody for sometime. This hand-over matches earlier comments we heard today from lawyers for Saddam Hussein saying that indications they had were that this execution could take place as early as tomorrow.
Now, the Iraqi government has been remarkably and perhaps uncharacteristically tight-lipped about this process. We've seen the Justice Ministry really play the line that this could happen later rather than sooner. But they are the only ones that have done so.
Instead, the public statements we have heard from Iraq's government officials, all the way up to Iraq's prime minister earlier this year, were that they anticipated Saddam Hussein to be executed by the end of the year. So all of that is playing into what is now very palpable speculation on the ground that within hours Saddam Hussein could be executed -- Colleen.
MCEDWARDS: Aneesh, stand by.
I want to bring Arwa in here.
Arwa, Mark Ellis just made an interesting point, you know, about the whole public perception for some that the government interfered many, many times throughout the process of Saddam Hussein's trial, and that there may be a risk here that there seems to be interfering, again, if there is a rush to move this along without regard for religious issues, and that kind of thing.
I mean, what -- what's the perception on the street about that issue of government interference or not? DAMON: Well, again, that perception that returns to the whole issue of the legitimacy of the trial, that, also, along with the entire proceedings itself, as well as the outcome, the verdict, the sentence, again, it is along sectarian lines that we see the perception of the trial. A lot of the Shia and the Kurdish population, they view the trial as being a fairly fair process, that this was Saddam Hussein, their former dictator, finally, once and for all, being brought to justice.
That's the perception that we are getting from those who suffered the most under his regime.
The other perception that we are getting is that this was a flawed trial, that it took place under an occupation, that it is illegitimate, that those members the court, the prosecution, as well as the judges, are merely pawns of the Iraqi government. The Iraqi government being perceived as merely being a pawn of the United States. That is the perception that we get mainly from the Sunni population here or those that were fairly supportive of Saddam Hussein when he was in power.
So really, again, mixed emotions.
There has been so much turmoil surrounding this trial, so many different perceptions from all sorts of people who you speak to, even when it comes to, for example, the execution itself. There are those who believe that Saddam Hussein should die, that he should be put to death. But, for example, they don't believe that this should be happening as the religious holidays, as the country's gearing up for this holy period.
They believe that executing him at this point in time is only going to inflame the situation and mar what -- further mar, actually, what should be a time of celebration. But there are others who believe that he should be killed, that that should be happening immediately -- Colleen.
MCEDWARDS: All right. Arwa Damon on the street. Aneesh Raman in the bureau.
Thank you both very much.
Mark Ellis here on the set.
We'll have much more on the story after we take a short break here on CNN.
HOLMES: Yes. We'll also go live to Somalia. Plenty happening there. But, of course, Saddam Hussein the story of the moment.
We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MCEDWARDS: Welcome back to CNN International. HOLMES: You're watching YOUR WORLD TODAY, where we bring CNN's viewers around the globe up to speed on the stories of the day. And there are several.
Perhaps the top one has to be the former Iraqi president, Saddam Hussein, who has been transferred now from U.S. custody into Iraqi hands. His execution perhaps hours away. It could be days away. We just don't know at the moment. But a significant step that he's been put into Iraqi hands.
Somalia's interim government enters Mogadishu amid protest.
And the Hajj reaches its spiritual climax.
Let's continue our coverage of the handing over of Saddam Hussein to Iraqi officials.
Let's go back to Aneesh Raman, standing by at our bureau in Baghdad.
Aneesh, before the break, we were talking about what this means. And a lot of that's guesswork, but certainly it's significant that he's now in Iraqi hands.
We also talked about whether it would be problematic were he to be executed on Saturday, as many are speculating, because it is the start of Eid, the religious holiday, and Saturday it begins for Sunnis. Saddam Hussein is a Sunni.
Let me ask you this, what is the time there now before this day ends?
RAMAN: It's 20 past 8:00 p.m. here now, Michael. So you have three hours, 40 minutes left today. That is fueling further speculation that Saddam's execution could happen within hours.
As you mentioned, Iraqi penal code bars anyone that is a defendant, someone being put to death, from being executed during a Muslim holiday of their faith. Saddam a Sunni Muslim. Sunnis have Eid that begins tomorrow.
We can also tell you, aides to ministers are telling CNN that Iraq's ministers are now in an emergency meeting. It is unclear what that meeting is about, but given the latest news, one can perhaps surmise that this is related to these developments.
The movement of Saddam Hussein from U.S. to Iraqi control is a significant step. It means the clock in earnest really starting ticking for Saddam Hussein before his execution. No one on the ground feels that Saddam Hussein could linger beyond hours, if not a day, in Iraqi custody, before being executed -- Michael.
HOLMES: And so after -- I know we've talked about this in the past, too. The fear is what sort of reaction there's going to be once this does take place. Many Shiites will celebrate. Many Sunnis, the opposite, perhaps. What sort of security is being put into place above and beyond the incredible security that exists day to day?
RAMAN: We've heard no detailed plan from the Iraqi government. They have been remarkably quiet about this entire process, given the sensitivity of Saddam's execution on the ground.
We do know that regular curfew in Iraq kicks in, in Baghdad, at least, in a few hours. And as we head into the weekend, it is likely if this event occurs in the coming hours, that curfew will be extended.
They have extended curfews before around elections, as well as around the sentencing of Saddam Hussein. These are very tense times here. Just today, a suicide bomber killed at least 10 north of the capital.
There are huge expectations either way as to how this will play out, whether Iraqis can, after years of dictatorial rule, find some overarching identity in their emotional closure with the execution of Saddam Hussein. Or, as we've heard from Ba'ath Party officials on the ground, as well as some of the Sunni insurgent groups, this will only fuel the fire of sectarian violence that is now feeding on itself on the street level -- Michael.
HOLMES: All right. Aneesh Raman there for us in Baghdad.
Arwa Damon is there also.
We'll check back in with you a short period of time. And keep following the story for us -- Colleen.
MCEDWARDS: Yes. We'll bring you up to date just as soon as we get more.
We do want to tell you about what's going on in Somalia, though. So we'll turn to that for just a moment.
"Today is the beginning of a new life, new stabilization and a new future for Somalia." Those words were spoken by Somali prime minister Ali Mohamed Gedi after he swept into Mogadishu in an armored convoy. A day earlier, his government forces, backed by Ethiopian troops, took control of the capital from Islamic fighters.
For the latest, let's go to Frederik Pleitgen, who is standing by in Ethiopia's capital for us.
Frederik, just bring us up to date.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Colleen, the first thing that the prime minister did is he called in a meeting and met with clan leaders and with the police chief of the city. Many were speculating that it might come to larger protests. There were some protests, but all in all, everything went surprisingly smoothly.
Let's take a look. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN (voice over): It was an easier transition than many expected.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Today is the first time that I'm in Mogadishu in 16 years. I'm very excited that I'm with the people of Somalia, and residents welcomed us without a problem.
PLEITGEN: The interim government, backed by the United Nations, wrested control of the capital from the Islamist group that had held it for the past several months. The situation remains tense.
Looting and gunfire greeted Somali forces as they entered the city on Thursday. Much of that fighting has died down, but security remains a major concern.
At Bakara market in Mogadishu, clan members are organizing security on their own.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I'm here to defend the property of the Bakara market from the looters because I am in charge of security. I also want to defend myself against the Ethiopian forces if they try to harm me.
PLEITGEN: The town of Kismayu in southern Somalia is now the last stronghold for Islamist fighters, though some Islamists are threatening a counteroffensive using guerrilla tactics against Somali government and Ethiopian forces. But the Ethiopian information minister says he believes the Islamists don't have the means to fight a guerrilla war.
BERHAN HAILU, ETHIOPIA INFORMATION MINISTER: Their forces are (INAUDIBLE) and the backbone of the Islamic Courts (INAUDIBLE) broken. We believe (ph) that. But it's not the task of Ethiopian forces to eradicate the whole element in Somalia. It should be the task of the Somali people.
PLEITGEN: Ethiopia says it will keep its forces in Somalia for several days, maybe several weeks, to continue tracking down leaders of the Islamic Courts movement.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN: Well, Colleen, and one of the major issues is these Ethiopian forces still in Somalia. Basically, today, what we saw is there were demonstrations against these Ethiopian forces, and one convoy of Ethiopian troops was, in fact, attacked. And stones were thrown at Ethiopian soldiers that were moving into Mogadishu.
Now, what the government is telling us is that its forces are still conducting operations in southern Somalia, where they're trying to track down the leaders of this Islamist movement. And they say that their troops are going to be there for a little while longer.
MCEDWARDS: All right. Frederik Pleitgen in the Ethiopian capital.
Thanks so much for bringing us up to date.
HOLMES: All right. Time for a break now. But we have much more in just a moment. We're still covering many stories around the world.
MCEDWARDS: And we're also going to be looking at a pilgrim who takes his camera along the journey to Mecca.
We'll have that and much more in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MCEDWARDS: Welcome back to YOUR WORLD TODAY. I'm Colleen McEdwards.
HOLMES: And I'm Michael Holmes. Let's update you now on the breaking news that we have been following. Signs growing that Saddam Hussein's execution could be imminent. The former Iraqi president has been transferred from U.S. to Iraqi custody, one of the final required steps before he is taken to the gallows. And an Iraqi judge has told the associated press that Hussein will be hung no later than Saturday.
Let's go to Baghdad and our Aneesh Raman is standing by there.
Aneesh, I doubt anything has been updated since we last spoke, but tell us this, what could happen in the hours ahead, and the significance of Saturday in this whole debate.
ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, first, Michael, just to throw some caution into what we've been reporting, U.S. military officials, now, are questioning to CNN whether, in fact, Saddam Hussein has been handed over. That doesn't undercut what we've heard from Saddam's own defense lawyer, saying he's been told the handover is complete, reports in other agencies as well. That handover is all but the final step toward the execution of Saddam Hussein. We don't know what length of period Saddam could remain in Iraqi custody. All indications on the ground were that would not be a lengthy time.
Saddam would then be taken at some point to the gallows where representatives of the government, his own defense lawyers, relatives, that we understand haven't been able to make it into town, but would have had the option to sit there to be witnesses, to bear witness to Saddam Hussein's execution. You mentioned the significance of Saturday.
In Iraqi penal law, it is forbidden for defendants to be executed during Muslim holidays that they celebrate. Saddam Hussein is a Sunni Muslim. That's important, because Sunni Eid, which is a very religious, begins on Saturday. Saturday in Iraq begins in just over three hours.
So all of that is sparking speculation that this execution could be imminent. Again, we've heard from Saddam's defense lawyers they understand the handover has taken place. Some U.S. military officials are now questioning that, not outright denying it. As you can imagine, it is a very tense situation on the ground, and this handover is really seen as one of the final steps, and that is we are here hearing a number things at the moment surrounding it -- Michael.
HOLMES: Yes, indeed. And so we should be cautious because Baghdad is a place that is, at the best of times, awash with rumor. We do have people saying to us the handover's taken place. Some others are now saying that might not have happened. We'll have to go with what people are telling us, including his own lawyers.
What I was also going to also raise with you, Aneesh, is the level of security there and the fears of what could happen once this takes place.
RAMAN: The Iraqi government hasn't, Michael, specified a security plan. Part of their -- the manner in which they've been dealing with Saddam's execution, with utter sensitivity. They've been uncharacteristically silent. One can only imagine, though, that they have exhaustive plans in place. We have seen curfews of an extensive measure put in place in Baghdad and other provinces surrounding not just elections, but as well Saddam's sentencing, which took place on November 5th. Regular curfews in Baghdad kick in, in a few hours. They might want until that to announce an extension of those curfews.
But this has been an undeniable variable, in what has become an increasingly tense and volatile situation on the ground, the death sentence of Saddam Hussein. It began with the sentencing itself on November 5th, forcing questions as to how this would impact the situation on the ground.
And now as we head ever closer to his actual execution, those answers will come. The Sunni areas, we've seen before, have protested in favor of Saddam. The Shia areas, quite the opposite. How that plays out, we'll have to wait and see -- Michael.
HOLMES: All right, Aneesh, standby if you will -- Colleen.
MCEDWARDS: All right, we want to bring Barbara Starr in now, our Pentagon correspondent.
Barbara, I understand we don't have any firm confirmation, nothing new coming from officials, certainly at this point? Is that correct, or has that changed in the last few minutes?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: No, Colleen, that is correct. The Bush administration is really leaving it, at this point, to the government of Iraq to make any announcements. Bush administration officials tell us they want the new Iraqi government of Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki to be the face of this entire process. They want the people in Iraq to hear it from their government, as well as the world.
And you know, for U.S. military commanders, they are pretty much, they tell us, simply watching events unfold. For them, the war goes on. The feeling, by top commanders, is they're continuing to work the problem of looking for that new Iraqi strategy that President Bush wants. They are talking amongst themselves and to the president, getting ready for the announcement expected from Washington in the next many days about what the White House calls the way forward in Iraq. And what that way forward, in the terms of the White House, may be is highly problematic at this point, because commanders tell us the execution of Saddam Hussein, they do not believe, will fundamentally change the situation of the violence on the ground in Iraq, that, you know, the war has fundamentally changed to a sectarian war now, Shia on Sunni violence. And that is what they're dealing with -- Colleen.
MCEDWARDS: It's interesting they say that, though. I mean, are they concerned, though, that the sectarian conflict is going to spike after this execution takes place, whenever it takes place, within the next 30 days?
STARR: Indeed. I think it's fair to say that commanders are very concerned in the hours following any public announcement by the Iraqi government of the execution of Saddam Hussein, quite concerned that there will be demonstrations on the streets, that there will be violence, Iraqi security forces, fully expected to be on the streets in full force. That is the face the U.S. military wants Iraqis to see. U.S. security forces clearly will be available in a backup role. There is an expectation that there may be some street demonstrations in the hours following.
But what commanders are also looking at is, you know, significantly the long-term picture. And when I say that, I mean the weeks to follow, the months to follow. Violence has already been at significantly increased levels in recent weeks, especially in Baghdad and especially in Al-Anbar province in the west. And commanders say they have no reason to think that that will let up. Saddam's execution aside, they are fully prepared for the increased levels of violence to continue.
All right, Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thank you, Barbara. Appreciate that -- Michael.
HOLMES: All right. Want to bring in Octavia Nasr now to discuss with us this whole issue of Eid, which begins on Saturday for Sunnis. It begins on Sunday for Shias. As we talked about with Aneesh, Saddam Hussein is a Sunni, and the law says he shouldn't be executed on a religious holiday. How important is all of that when it comes to Eid? Eid is a significant festival.
OCTAVIA NASR, CNN SR. EDITOR FOR ARAB AFFAIRS: Very important, indeed. People are e-mailing us constantly. You go on forums, this is a big discussion going on, basically saying that Iraqis and the U.S. will be making a big mistake if they execute Saddam Hussein on the first day of Eid Al Adha (ph). It is the feast of sacrifice, really the largest feast for Muslims. It is celebrated during this month, the 10th day of the Hajj, the month where Muslims go to perform their pilgrimage, one of the pillars of Islam in Mecca, in Saudi Arabia. On the 10th day, they're supposed to celebrate this feast, basically a commemoration of the Prophet Abraham willing to sacrifice his son, Ismail, to God.
So very, very important religious holiday for Muslims. And especially that Sunnis are starting to celebrate it on Saturday people are saying the symbolism is inappropriate and sort of unacceptable.
HOLMES: You know, and as we were discussing, I just checked now what the time is there in Baghdad. It is right now 8:40 p.m., so there is still some of Friday left in Baghdad. But if they were to execute him in the final hours before Eid, would that be acceptable? Or is that also a bit of bad form?
NASR: No, no, no, it sounds like this would be more acceptable than really starting the sunrise of the first day of Eid Al Adha, executing him now. We're watching very closely Iraqi TV, Al Iraqiya, and basically they're having judges and experts saying that there is a possibility he will be executed during those final hours of Friday.
So of course, as you said, Friday is not over yet, so there is that chance. So very important to tell our viewers, that if they execute him, say now, they don't have to announce it now. So it is possible that the execution takes place at a certain hour, and we won't know about it until the day after or two days later, or maybe after the holiday is over. This is not a one-day holiday, this is about a three to four-days holiday. And as you said, there is a difference between Shiites and Sunnis celebrating the holiday, so this, we could not hear about this until next week. But they could very well execute him, yes, before the end of Friday.
HOLMES: Would it -- is there a sense in the Iraqi media that there is a lot of haste at the moment? I know there are some -- some in the cabinet who want this put off for a couple weeks.
NASR: Right. It's very interesting. Because this question depends on who you ask. You have of course Saddam Hussein, still enjoys some support in Iraq. His supporters basically are saying this is done in a very personal way. The Iraqi authorities did not follow. They say the Iraqi authorities did not follow what the tribunal that was set up for trying Saddam Hussein dictates.
They said that the Iraqi authorities have been bending the rules a lot. One of those rules, for example, Michael, also an interesting tidbit for our audience, Saddam Hussein has been wanting to be shot to death.
He said that -- you know, he's a former head of state. He believes he still is the head of state. And also the commander in chief of the Army. And the -- according to him and his lawyers, the Iraqi law dictates that a head of state be allowed to be shot in the head instead of be hanged like a common criminal.
And of course those who support Saddam Hussein are saying, see, the Iraqis are making sure that Saddam Hussein is treated like a common criminal, hanged just like a common criminal. His requests were not respected or accommodated.
Also, you have a portion of the Iraqi population that says Saddam Hussein should have been tried for the other crimes, not just the crime that involved Shiites. You know, he committed crimes against Sunnis, against Kurds. And basically they feel that yes this was done a bit -- in a rushed way and they are not too happy with that. Now, those who are for the execution of Saddam Hussein in a quick way are all for it. They're celebrating in the streets already. You go to the forums and you're going to hear them basically cheering the execution on, saying do it now, don't wait, not one more minute, because they just want to see him go.
HOLMES: Octavia Nasr, "Arab Affairs" editor, thanks so much for that. We should also make it clear that although he's been handed over -- and that is, in itself, a very significant thing -- we don't know what's happening. And already there are some conflicting stories coming out.
MCEDWARDS: There's a bit of a discrepancy.
HOLMES: Has he been handed over? So this is still obviously a fluid situation.
MCEDWARDS: We need to be cautious and we will bring you more as soon as we have it. Also coming up next, we'll go live to the Hajj.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Zain Verjee on the Plain of Arafat. I'll bring you a live report on the Hajj pilgrimage. Today was the peak day. We'll do that here on YOUR WORLD TODAY.
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HOLMES: Welcome back to CNN International.
MCEDWARDS: Seen live in more than 200 countries and territories across the globe. This is YOUR WORLD TODAY.
HOLMES: Want to update you now on the main story. That is of course the situation with Saddam Hussein, the former Iraqi leader. Reports coming from his lawyers in Jordan saying they had been advised by the U.S. that Saddam Hussein was no longer in their custody.
One, then, assumes he is in Iraqi custody, which would be one of the final steps before his execution by hanging. When that will take place, quite frankly, no one knows.
A lot of people have got an opinion. We have had judges quoted saying no later than Saturday. We've had the discussion about Saturday being a religious holiday in the Muslim world for Sunnis and Saddam Hussein is a Sunni. So, a lot of people feel it will be unlikely for him to be executed on a Saturday. However there are still another 3 and a quarter hours of Friday remaining. So the speculation continues -- Colleen.
MCEDWARDS: We talked a lot about the religious significance of the timing of all this. We want to talk a little bit more about the religious significance of this time period for all Muslims around the world.
Nearly 3 million Muslims from around the world are on a rocky hill outside the holy city of Mecca, Saudi Arabia, on the site where the prophet Muhammad delivered his final sermon. The faithful spend the day in prayer and meditation. This is a key ritual of the annual Hajj pilgrimage. And Zain Verjee joins us now from Mt. Arafat, near Mecca, with more. Hi, Zain.
VERJEE: Hi there Colleen. All day we've been hearing this chant -- "labbeik, allahum, labbeik, God, I am here, answering your call." As you said, about 3 million pilgrims were just here on the Plain of Arafat, praying, contemplating, meditating, and asking God for forgiveness.
This was the most important day of the Hajj. And it was a really auspicious Hajj, particularly for all Muslims here because it fell on a Friday. We spent a lot of time over the past few days meeting pilgrims from different countries and different continents, including Africa.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE (voice-over): On Saudi soil at last. They come from all corners of the African continent. All bound for the holy city of Mecca. A rare opportunity for most. The Saudi government gives the green light each year to only one in every thousand Muslims from sub- Saharan Africa to perform the Hajj.
(on camera): Islam is the fastest growing religion in Africa. There's a huge African presence here in Mecca. This year about 150,000, both old and young.
(voice-over): One of the youngest pilgrims we met here is 23- year-old Mufida Bashir from Nigeria. She's a primary school teacher who left her three children with her mother. Traditionally, most Muslims perform Hajj later in life. But Mufida says she's wanted to make the pilgrimage for years.
MUFIDA BASHIR, NIGERIAN PILGRIM: I'm not too young to come here. It's an opportunity. It comes but once.
VERJEE: She says youth is not an obstacle when it comes to the Hajj but a big challenge facing Muslim women in Nigeria is being forced to marry too young.
BASHIR: It's really -- it ruins their lives. I mean it frustrates them. It's just terrible for young girl, 16-year-old girl, to get married.
VERJEE (on camera): How old were you when you got married?
BASHIR: I was 15.
VERJEE (voice-over): After fixing my ever sliding head scarf, Mufida talked about her most moving moment in Mecca.
BASHIR: Just seeing the Khaba has made me -- has changed my life forever.
VERJEE: Faith, for these young women, is not only about ritual and prayer, but also about reaching out in a search for a deeper understanding of the Muslim concept of the umar, universal brotherhood. Or sisterhood.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: Joining us now is Islamic scholar professor Ahmad Seif el Din Turkistani. Thanks you for joining us.
One key question I want to ask you, how would you explain to our audience the religious origin and significance of this day, where it comes from?
AHMAD SEIF EL DIN TURKISTANI, RELIGIOUS SCHOLAR: This Plain of Arafat is very significant, an ancient place. And Arafat in Arabic means a place where people introduce themselves to each other.
So probably Adam and Eve, after being put here on Earth, met each other. That's an ancient story. But also in the meantime, people get introduced to each other, but they must be physically here on the Plain of Arafat on this particular day. It's the peak of the Hajj, and that's where they reflect upon their caste and look for the future.
It's a time and place to contemplate, to ponder, to ask forgiveness from the Almighty on this great day.
VERJEE: Both a scholar and a pilgrim today, professor The professor Ahmad Seif el Din Turkistani giving us some of his perspective on this day. The pilgrims spend tonight in Muzdalifa (ph) Colleen.
MCEDWARDS: Zain Verjee, thanks very much.
HOLMES: All right, we'll take a short break now. Plenty more on the Saddam Hussein execution watch when we come back.
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HOLMES: All right, Let's update you now on what's happening with Saddam Hussein. Obviously, a lot of information out there. Some of it, we can't confirm, to be honest.
Let's go to Aneesh Raman. He has some new information from Baghdad.
Aneesh, what can you tell us?
Arwa Damon is also standing by, I should say, in the street. We'll get to you in a minute.
But first Aneesh.
RAMAN: Michael, we understand that Iraq's minister has been -- and we don't know if this meeting is over -- in an emergency session with other ministers of his cabinet. One can assume, and we have some suggestions, that it is the case, that they are discussing how and when this execution will take place. We have heard earlier that Saddam Hussein, according to one of his lawyers, has been handed over from U.S. custody to Iraqi custody. That is one of the final steps before Saddam Hussein would be executed. It really, in earnest, starts the clock, because no one here assumes Saddam will linger in Iraqi custody for sometime.
Senior sources within the government are suggesting that this officials in the government are suggesting that this execution is going to happen sooner rather than later, a specific timeframe unclear. But as we've been talking about this hour, tomorrow, Saturday, a holy day, the beginning of Eid for Sunni Muslims. Saddam is a Sunni. That would suggest that if this execution is going to take place, without having the execution taking place during Eid, it will happen within the next few hours -- Michael.
HOLMES: All right, Aneesh, thanks for that update. And we'll check in with you a little later as well.
MCEDWARDS: All right, we want to bring in Arwa Damon as well, who is standing by on the street in Baghdad.
Arwa, what is the biggest fear of people in Iraq once this execution does, in fact, take place? What are people most afraid of happening?
ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Colleen, what they are afraid of is any sort of retaliatory attack, any sort of increase in violence that could -- and according to most Iraqis we have spoken to -- will take place once their former leader is executed. That is their No. 1 concern. That has actually been their concern for the last three years, trying to cope with, deal with, living with the day- to-day cycle of violence.
And what everyone is really afraid of is that the death of Saddam Hussein will only increase that violence. And that is pretty much across the board, be it Sunni, Shia or Kurd, those that want to see their former leader killed and those that do not. We are hearing from some in the Sunni and Kurdish population, those that suffered most under Saddam Hussein, they do want to see him killed, they do want see this chapter of Iraq's history finally brought to an end, but they are fearing retaliatory attacks after his death -- Colleen.
MCEDWARDS: Very quickly, Arwa, what kind of extra security is in place?
DAMON: Well, at this point, nothing really, at least nothing that we can see. Now the Iraqi government, presumably, once this announcement has been made, could potentially put a curfew in place. That has been in the past, when we have seen major announcements, major events taking place. You see 24-hour bans on vehicles and pedestrian movements, but as you can see behind me right now, Iraqis are still out and about, trying to do some last-minute shopping. But at the same time, once that announcement is made, we can be quite certain that Iraqi security forces and coalition forces will be out there -- Colleen. MCEDWARDS: All right, Arwa Damon on the streets, just about 9:00 p.m. there in Baghdad. And Aneesh Raman in the bureau. Thank you, both, appreciate it.
That is YOUR WORLD TODAY. Stay with CNN. The news continues.
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