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Nancy Grace
Iowa Woman Charged With Attempted Poisoning of Her Own Infant
Aired January 02, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, mystery in the heartland, all surrounding a 19-month-old baby girl at Children`s Hospital, Omaha. Will secretly- obtained video reveal the baby`s own mother poisoning her child, injecting poison straight into the baby`s feeding tube, and all under the noses of hospital doctors and staff?
And tonight, the death of a president. U.S. president Gerald R. Ford dead, age 93. Ford volunteered to serve, ending up on the USS Monterey. The only president to survive two assassination attempts put himself through Yale law school after being a college star on the football field. His passing a landmark in American history.
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GEORGE WALKER BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Gerald Ford assumed the presidency when the nation needed a leader of character and humility, and we found it in the man from Grand Rapids. President Ford`s time in office was brief, but history will long remember the courage and common sense that helped restore trust in the workings of our democracy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, making false claims of illness happen, but this dramatic, someone injecting the child or smothering them, is very uncommon.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say that`s what Valeria Shakhov did. She was videotaped at Children`s Hospital injecting an unknown substance into her 19-month-old daughter`s feeding tube. Police say Shakhov suffers from a rare psychological disorder called Munchausen by Proxy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The common denominator is they`re doing this to draw attention to themselves, to meet their own needs, not the needs of the child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight, this first business night in 2007. Straight to the heartland. Is a young mom responsible for trying to poison her own baby girl? It`s called Munchausen by Proxy. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People have to understand that it doesn`t happen very frequently, but it`s very interesting to people because people think, How can someone put on the fact that their child`s ill? The common denominator is they`re doing this to draw attention to themselves, to meet their own needs, not the need of the child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a disorder, potentially dangerous to the child, where a parent either produces symptoms or replicates symptoms, generally of serious illness, in the child. This is a subtle form of child abuse. These children often go from one hospital to another and endure various investigations, many of which could be invasive, some of them potentially hazardous. And this disease carries a significant mortality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s go straight out to KPTM-TV reporter Julie Hong. Welcome, Julie. What happened?
JULIE HONG, KPTM: I`m not getting any audio.
GRACE: OK, we`ll go right back to Julie. Let`s start off with Art Harris, investigative reporter. Art, what can you tell us?
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Nancy, what happened -- the baby was admitted December 8 to Children`s Hospital with symptoms of abdominal pain, vomiting. Two weeks later, the doctors are very suspicious the baby`s not getting better and they call the police. It`s a medical mystery. They call in a detective who has happened to have had child abuse training, knows something about Munchausen syndrome, and they get a judge to...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, hold on. We`re already at the judge? Tell me what happened? What happened in the hospital.
HARRIS: What happened in the hospital, Nancy, the nurses reported that they had observed this mother constantly weighing the baby, disconnecting feeding tubes, ignoring their medical advice, touching the equipment. They got very concerned, told the doctor, the doctor then conferred, and that`s when they called police.
GRACE: Elizabeth, let`s take a look at how many times this 19-month- old infant had already been in the hospital -- and we think that there are other hospitalizations in other cities -- a total of I think 10 times. Weight loss, vomiting, gastric problems.
Out to Dr. Jon D. Mason. He is an associate professor of emergency medicine and pediatrics. He has treated and written extensively about Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy. Welcome, Doctor. What is it?
JON D. MASON, M.D., ASSOC. PROF. OF EMERGENCY MEDICINE: The diagnosis is a difficult diagnosis. It`s a form of child abuse, and it basically relates to the fact that there are children being inflicted with an illness by either parents or a guardian who cause an illness to occur in their child or their child that`s under their care. And oftentimes, it`s unfortunately the mother, but it oftentimes is someone who`s directly responsible for that child.
GRACE: Joining us by phone line now, Andrew Wilson. He`s joining us out of Omaha. He`s the attorney for this young mom, Valeria Shakhov. Welcome, Andrew. Thank you for being with us.
ANDREW WILSON, ATTORNEY FOR VALERIA SHAKHOV: Thank you for having me, Nancy.
GRACE: Have you devised a defense in this case? I mean, isn`t your client on video?
WILSON: It`s real early right now in this stage in the proceedings to discuss too many specifics on this, but my understanding, yes, they did do a search warrant and they did have surveillance for about 17 hours in the hospital room. I haven`t had access to that. I don`t get access to any of the reports or the video at this stage in the proceeding here in Nebraska.
GRACE: Will you get that a certain period of time before trial? Is this going to trial?
WILSON: Absolutely. Right now, it`s pending preliminary hearing. And if it gets bound over to district court, then I get access through discovery.
GRACE: Where is your client, Valeria Shakhov, tonight?
WILSON: She`s residing in Iowa...
GRACE: And where is the baby?
WILSON: ... where she was living before this happened.
GRACE: OK, where`s the baby?
WILSON: Pardon me?
GRACE: Where`s the baby?
WILSON: The baby is in the care of the state.
GRACE: What are police alleging, Andrew?
WILSON: My understanding is that they believe my client injected some foreign substance in -- there was a port surgically put in my client`s daughter, and I believe the state`s theory is that she was putting some substance in there.
GRACE: Now, it`s my understanding that she told police she was putting a feeding formula into the intravenous feed that went directly into the baby`s stomach?
WILSON: Again, I don`t know what the police are saying my client said. Again, I don`t have any access to what those reports say, so I`m kind of in the dark at this stage as far as what the police are claiming my client told them. So I don`t know.
GRACE: Joining us now -- I think we`ll be able to hear from Julie Hong, KPTM-TV reporter. Julie, what allegedly went down at the hospital?
HARRIS: Well, police say that an officer saw mom injecting something into a feeding tube. Now, toxicology reports are not back yet as to what that substance was, however, police are saying that in an interview, Valeria said that she was injecting formula into the feeding tube.
GRACE: Now, it`s my understanding they had to go get a warrant for this, Julie. What made them decide to go get a warrant?
HARRIS: Based on the -- doctors said based on the mom`s behavior. She was acting a little strange, so they had requested for a police search warrant for video surveillance in Rachel`s hospital room. They were looking for physical evidence to show unexplained vomiting of the child and maybe why Rachel was not gaining any weight.
GRACE: Now, Julie, how many times had this baby girl been admitted into the hospital? She`s only 19 months old.
HARRIS: Right. Based on the search warrant that we have -- there is a little bit of medical history that is in this court document. According to it, it says from August of 2005 all the way up until last month, Rachel was hospitalized a number of times in children`s hospitals in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, in Des Moines, Iowa, as well as here in Omaha, Nebraska.
GRACE: So all together, do we have a grand total about how many times this child was in the hospital?
HARRIS: I have 10 documented cases based out of this search warrant.
GRACE: And Julie, from what you can tell -- Julie Hong joining us from KPTM-TV -- what were the ailments on all of these hospitalizations?
HARRIS: It looks like there was some -- the initial one was weight loss, and then it looks like some sort of internal, like, gastric issues. There were a number of tests that were done, and it says tests came up negative, tests were normal. There was no obstruction, no obstruction, and normal results. So it seems like the unexplained illnesses were kind of what flagged doctors that maybe there was a problem.
GRACE: Julie, with all of these illnesses that the child continued to be hospitalized for, was the mom the only be witness to them?
HARRIS: Now, that is unclear, although in this police report, they did say that the mother was continually touching medical equipment, such as feeding tubes, when they asked her not to. And the doctor that we spoke with here over at Children`s Hospital says that is a symptom of the Munchausen by Proxy. Oftentimes, these symptoms will occur only when, say, the mother is around. However, it does not specify here, so I cannot say.
GRACE: Take a listen to this.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody sees these people as the best mothers, the best caretakers in the world. We have come to see them as not caring at all about the infants, but the primary goal here is to be in this perverse, controlling relationship with doctors.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some individuals will say that -- say symptoms are there, but there won`t be evidence of them, whereas other individuals will actually create the symptoms. And some of the symptoms that they create can be very severe, as there are kids that die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s unchain the lawyers. Joining us tonight, first-time guest, Sandra Ruth Schiff, defense attorney joining us out of the New York jurisdiction. Also with us, Daniel Horowitz, also a veteran defense attorney. First to you, Sandy. Sandy Schiff has tried a lot of cases, no stranger to a courtroom. The mom reportedly stated to cops -- reportedly - - that she was putting the baby`s formula into the feeding tube, the intravenous feeding tube that went directly into the baby`s stomach. OK, obviously, it would have behooved her to just be quiet. But now she`s committed to that, Sandy.
SANDRA RUTH SCHIFF, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The truth of the matter is we have due process, and when you get a subpoena and a search warrant, you are already telling the judicial process that you suspect someone of a crime. If you`ve gotten to that point and you`ve already executed a warrant and you have these tapes and you`ve videotaped her, then why is she being questioned? She`s already a target. A defense lawyer...
GRACE: Well, you`re very artfully dodging my question. My question is, isn`t it true that if she told cops this -- and we`ve got her defense attorney with us, he`s unaware of this statement. If she told cops, Oh, that was baby formula, she`s stuck with that. Now, if something else turns up in that tube, she`s in trouble.
SCHIFF: She`s not stuck with it if it`s suppressible and if she actually said it. And I don`t know for sure what she said. Neither does her defense counsel. And since you don`t have the videotape of what she said, it`s not recorded, then you can`t really say with any certainty that they`re stuck with it.
GRACE: Ellie, could you hand me a copy of the affidavit, please? Daniel Horowitz, just let`s assume, OK -- I don`t have a problem with it, I`m sure you two will. Let`s just assume that the cops aren`t bald-faced liars in this affidavit. This is the affidavit for the search warrant, for the issuance of the search warrant that Sandy Schiff was just describing. It states a series of hospitalizations, 10 hospitalizations for various stomach ailments.
And then it goes through what exactly the mom was doing, Daniel Horowitz. And this is what I was getting from Julie and Art Harris. (INAUDIBLE) the nurses continually being contacted by the mother regarding the patient vomiting. They couldn`t see that. The patient`s mom weighing the baby multiple times a day. Multiple times a day, putting the baby up on scales. The vomiting observed by the baby`s mother, continuously playing with the feeding tubes and the medical tubes, shutting down the feeding tubes -- very unusual -- and then forcing something on video into one of the intravenous feeding tubes.
Now, at the time, they state the mom said she was putting formula in the tube. Daniel, she`s stuck with that now. I`m sure her lawyer would have said, Don`t say anything, but she did.
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think her lawyer would say, Nancy, that the law is unfair in -- with respect to women like this, who are so severely mentally ill that they might hurt their own child in an effort to get some sort of attention. It`s unfortunate that it`s either, I didn`t do it at all, or she`s totally guilty, and there`s no middle ground that says she needs help, she needs treatment, and then maybe she can be a good mother to this child. That`s so sad.
GRACE: Let`s go out to Trenny Stovall, child advocate, joining us. Trenny, you`ve handled a lot of abuse cases.
TRENNY STOVALL, CHILD ADVOCATE ATTORNEY: I have.
GRACE: Have you ever seen this Munchausen by Proxy?
STOVALL: I`ve not personally handled a case, but I`ve had a number of cases associated with other attorneys I`ve worked with or courts, in my court. So I`m very familiar with Munchausen`s, yes, and...
GRACE: You know what`s interesting, Trenny, is both Sandy Schiff and Daniel Horowitz, both of them, first line of attack, It didn`t happen. Second line of attack, They shouldn`t have asked her the question. Third line of attack, Well, she probably didn`t say that even if they did ask the question. Let`s just deal with the fact that she said she`s putting formula in the intravenous feeding system. Why? Even if it is formula...
STOVALL: There`s no justifiable reason as to why she would need to put formula inside a feeding tube. The child`s in the hospital. And by nature of what it is, the feeding tube is providing that child with sustenance. There`s no reason she should be touching it. And it seems that women who -- or parents who suffer -- people who suffer from this disorder are unable to stop themselves. It`s impulse disorder. So it doesn`t matter that there are caretakers around, there are hospital persons around. They are looking for that level of attention, and there`s nothing that`s going to stop that behavior.
GRACE: Back out to our two lawyers, Sandy Schiff and Daniel Horowitz. Dan, I was specifically asking you about suspects being stuck with statements that they make to police following their Miranda rights. And instead of answering that, you brought up the possibility that in the future, she could get the baby back. Why would you even...
HOROWITZ: Well...
GRACE: Why would you even bring that up? I mean, at some point...
HOROWITZ: Because, Nancy...
GRACE: ... a defense attorney has got to think about the impact on the victim, at some point deep, deep, deep...
HOROWITZ: I do.
GRACE: ... in your subconscious.
HOROWITZ: Well, Nancy, I`m thinking about not only this victim but all of the victims out there. If women who have this impulse disorder can`t come forward and say...
GRACE: We`re talking about the baby, not the mom.
HOROWITZ: I know, but if she can`t come forward with the truth about her problem, other women will hide it and more children will be hurt. It`s great to be punitive and go after her now, go for her jugular. There`s a hurt baby. It`s so easy to attack her. But the bigger picture is what I`m bringing out, Nancy. As a society, we have to be less punitive and more treatment-oriented to prevent there being child victims like this one. That`s my point.
GRACE: Daniel, all you are talking about is how to help the mom and get the baby back with the mom.
HOROWITZ: That`s right. That`s my goal. You`re right. Helping the mom...
GRACE: Out to Dr. Lisa Weinstock...
HOROWITZ: ... take care of the children.
GRACE: ... psychiatrist. Dr. Weinstock, what is it?
DR. LISA WEINSTOCK, PSYCHIATRIST: What is this syndrome?
GRACE: Yes.
WEINSTOCK: Well, it`s a severe psychological problem that a very small number of parents, generally mothers, have in which they create illnesses or feign illnesses in their children in an attempt to get attention for themselves. It`s a very serious problem. It`s very hard to treat.
And I think Dan makes a good point that, clearly, we want to be able to help these people, but it`s a very serious problem and not always as treatable as one might think.
GRACE: To what lengths will a mom go that has this illness?
WEINSTOCK: To all sorts of lengths. I mean typically, these -- typically, it`s a mother, not a father. And oftentimes, it`s somebody who`s very familiar with the medical system. Either they`ve worked in the system or know a lot of terms. And so they`ll do things like injecting chemicals or things that shouldn`t be going into IV lines or feeding tubes, causing infection, things like that, all kinds of things.
GRACE: Quick break, everybody. Let`s go to tonight`s "Case Alert." U.S. officials reportedly try a two-week stall on the execution of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein. Hussein executed by hanging early Saturday for war crimes against humanity. Iraq`s prime minister reportedly disagreed, saying a delayed execution would only trigger even more Iraqi violence.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Court documents show Shakhov`s young daughter has a long history of hospital visits for unexplained illnesses. That and her behavior is what tipped off doctors and police something was wrong. She now faces felony child abuse charges.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The common denominator is they`re doing this to draw attention to themselves to, meet their own needs, not the need of the child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They will go from pharmacist to pharmacist, doctor to doctor. And often, it`s a long, drawn-out process before the individual`s actually identified of having these actions against their children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: How long did it take to get that search warrant? What was it that was being observed that led police to believe they only had one choice, to install secret video surveillance in a little baby`s hospital room, only to allegedly catch her own mother injecting her feeding tube?
Out to Julie Hong with KPTM-TV. Julie, thank you for being with us. When will we get those toxicology reports back?
HARRIS: It`s unclear when those toxicology reports are going to come back, Nancy. We don`t know yet. But we do know that the mother is saying that she was injecting formula into that feeding tube.
GRACE: I want to go back out to our doctor, Dr. Jon D. Mason. Dr. Mason, what would it do to a child under non-sterile conditions to inject formula into an intravenous feeding tube?
MASON: Well, I don`t have exact details in this case, but it sounds like this tube is actually in the stomach and it was probably a feeding tube. If it is an intravenous line...
GRACE: That is actually -- you`re correct, Doctor. It was a Terri Schiavo-like feeding tube.
MASON: Right. So the stomach`s pretty resistant to organisms and bacteria. If it were an intravenous line, on the other hand, it would be very serious.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most physicians kind of say, No, it can`t be this wonderful mother who seems so caring and loving. She can`t be doing anything to hurt her child. And it`s very easy to be taken in by this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Valeria Shakhov hid her face as she left her first court appearance Wednesday, where she was formally charged with felony child abuse. Shakhov`s 19-month-old daughter was at Children`s Hospital last week when Shakhov allegedly tampered with her treatment. A court affidavit says Shakhov continually weighed her daughter, shut down feeding tubes and touched medical equipment against the orders of hospital staff. Doctors told police they believe Valeria Shakhov may suffer from Munchausen`s Syndrome by Proxy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A 29-year-old mom facing charges of possibly poisoning her little child in the hospital. But it`s not the first time we`ve heard of Munchausen by Proxy. That was a shot -- if I could go back to that -- of Kathy Bush, Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Prosecutors accused her of insisting they perform unnecessary surgeries on her little girl. There was Michelle Butler of Wooster, Ohio, 2004, tried to kill her son, also caught on video. Yvonne Eldridge, Walnut Creek, California, convicted of abusing children in the same manner. And last but not least, Cynthia Lyda, San Antonio, Texas.
So this is not at all uncommon, Dr. Weinstock.
WEINSTOCK: It happens. It`s not that common, but I think when it happens, it`s so shocking that it gets a lot of publicity because it`s so against what we expect the role of a mother to be. It`s exactly the opposite.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): The state says the woman once honored by Nancy Reagan at the White House for her work with children suffers from a bizarre mental disorder called Munchausen-by-proxy syndrome.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The electrolyte imbalance is associated with an extremely high potassium level that, in my opinion, represents poisoning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Parents either lie about children`s illnesses or deliberately make the children sick to seek attention for themselves.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Despite the fact that everybody sees these people as the best mothers, the best caretakers in the world, we have come to see them as not caring at all about the infants, but the primary goal here is to be in this perverse, controlling relationship with doctors, in this case, pediatricians.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A 29-year-old mom in America`s heartland facing charges she intentionally tried to poison her own baby girl. Why? It`s called Munchausen-by-proxy, when typically moms try to get attention on themselves through their children.
Take a look at some of the headlines from all around the country. Elizabeth, do we have those? This is certainly not the first time we have heard of this rare and unusual behavior. Well, there`s a shot of the current case.
Let me go back out to Julie Hong, KPTM-TV reporter. What else do we know of that Shakhov has had to say about this?
JULIE HONG, KPTM REPORTER: We don`t have a ton. When she was coming out of the courtroom, she declined to comment. But what we do have is pretty much just what`s on this court document and based on what doctors are saying that they observed by this mother`s behavior.
GRACE: And back out to Art Harris, investigative reporter. Art, I can only wonder -- you know, apparently on this video, it wasn`t once, not twice, but three times the mom allegedly was injecting some type of a fluid into the feeding tube.
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Right, Nancy.
GRACE: Three times before they could stop it.
HARRIS: Well, the nurses were also very observant, and they asked the mother about a diaper change. She said, "Oh, the baby`s dry." Well, they found a diaper in the trash that she`d apparently changed trying to give apparently the impression the baby needed to be fed, said that she hadn`t been fed, and the nurses found a feeding, you know, tube in the trash that was marked lower than they had thought.
So the idea here, you could infer, the prosecutor may infer, that this mother wanted the baby overfed to throw up again and continue to stay sick so she could feel needed.
GRACE: Let`s take a look at a made-for-TV movie, this commonly called problem, Munchausen-by-proxy, came to the forefront of the American legal system. Take a look.
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(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one`s accusing you of anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you talking about? Accusing me of what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have reports that your wife has been abusing these children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry, who the hell are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Social services.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And who told you that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We can`t give out that information.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it`s the wrong information. Wait a second here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Certain things have come to light. Very often the husband is the last to know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you folks have any firearms?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Calm down, darling. That`s not going to do it. Billy, Billy, what are we talking about here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve got a foster home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve got a foster home?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mommy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have a...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Daddy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want to go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bill, these are our kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Munchausen-by-proxy being the focus of that movie. That was from ABC`s "Seduction in a Small Town." Now, in that case, the mom was falsely accused of abusing her own children.
Back to Julie Hong. Julie, do we know why the baby was in the hospital to start with? Why was she on that feeding tube to begin with?
HONG: Well, based on the search warrant, it seems like they were looking for evidence as to why the child was not gaining weight and for unexplained vomiting, so that may have something to do with it. However, we do not know exactly why she was admitted.
She was admitted prior, on December 8th, for vomiting, and then again on December 8th of last year for some sort of test regarding the stomach, the gastric system. And those results came back normal, according to the documents we have.
GRACE: Back to Dr. Mason, Dr. Mason, this baby is only 19 months old. She`s already had an upper GI series, small bowel series. What does a patient, a child have to go through for an upper and lower GI series test?
JON MASON, MD, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF EMER. MEDICINE: They`re both radiologic procedures. The x-ray doctors will put barium or contrast material both down the esophagus...
GRACE: Radiologic, that means x-ray?
MASON: X-rays. They`re done by the radiology doctors, the x-ray doctors. They put fluid down the stomach by oral route, as well as some by rectal.
GRACE: Oral route? Do they have to put a tube down the child`s mouth?
MASON: They might very well have to do that, if the child can`t drink.
GRACE: And then, for the lower GI series, the baby has to have a tube put up her behind?
MASON: That`s correct, and then given like a barium enema.
GRACE: So all of this at age 19 months?
MASON: Yes, and that`s part of this whole syndrome. Not only is -- the child is suffering at the hands of the medical system, and that`s part of this whole process. And it`s a sad state of affairs.
GRACE: You know, Dr. Mason, you`ve studied this so much. And I know the mom is presumed innocent until proven guilty. I also know what I`m reading in this affidavit, that police observed her three times injecting some liquid into a feeding tube.
And I`m just imagining what frame of mind you must be in to allegedly hurt a 19-month-old baby girl -- this big -- forcing it to have a tube up its behind, a tube down its mouth, for all of these tests, the needles in the stomach, a Terri Schiavo-type feeding tube that this child had been going through.
We know of 10 hospitalizations, Doctor. We know of 10; that`s more than most of us have had in a lifetime.
MASON: Yes. And, again, this is one of the tragedies of this syndrome, that the child suffers a great deal. And it`s very frustrating for the medical department teams, the doctors and nurses caring for these patients, trying to figure out what these symptoms are due to, trying to get to the bottom of it, and yet being unable to do so because we`re being fooled by a caretaker, or lied to, or basically being duped.
GRACE: Back out to the attorney, and he is a veteran trial lawyer, representing the mom, Valerie Shakhov, Andrew Wilson is with us. Andrew, where is the father? Where`s the dad in this scenario?
ANDREW WILSON, ATTORNEY FOR VALERIE SHAKHOV: He`s back east.
GRACE: You mean they`re divorced?
WILSON: No, they`re not married.
GRACE: So does he have -- what is he doing about the daughter? Why isn`t she going to live with him?
WILSON: Well, right now, the daughter`s in the custody of the state. And that very well may be an option, when it`s addressed through the juvenile court.
GRACE: Andrew, when you say "in the custody of the state," you mean she`s in foster care?
WILSON: Correct, being placed through the state Department of Health and Human Services.
GRACE: To Trenny Stovall, child advocate, Trenny, when I think about what the baby`s already been through, it`s just amazing.
TRENNY STOVALL, CHILD CUSTODY ADVOCATE: It`s horrible. It`s absolutely horrible. And the saddest thing is that, if this mother does have this disorder, she will continue to harm this child and future children, if she has them. This child needs to be in a safe environment with someone who`s going to protect it, and that may not be this mother.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Amid all the turmoil, Gerald Ford was a rock of stability. And when he put his hand on his family Bible to take the presidential oath of office, he brought grace to a moment of great doubt. In a short time, the gentleman from Grand Rapids proved that behind the affability was firm resolve.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) Welcome back, everybody. As you know, Gerald Ford, U.S. president, dead age 93. So many facts people don`t know about Gerald Ford. He volunteered to serve our country, ending up on the USS Monterey. The only president to survive two assassination attempts put himself through Yale Law School after being a college star on the football field.
Let`s go straight out to Charlie Hurt, capital bureau chief with the "Washington Times." Welcome, Charlie. I consider this to be a landmark in American history. After the country was totally torn apart following Watergate, who could have possibly been better than Gerald Ford?
CHARLIE HURT, "WASHINGTON TIMES": Well, you know, you had those nice images from the National Cathedral today, earlier today. The elder President Bush referred to Gerald Ford as a Norman Rockwell painting come to life, which I think goes along with what you said.
You know, a lot of people credit him with bringing an end to what he called the long, national nightmare, which was Watergate and the whole Nixon White House. And, you know, obviously, there are people who fondly remember him and always will for that.
GRACE: Take a listen to President Ford.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GERALD FORD, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... grant a full, free and absolute pardon onto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States, which he, Richard Nixon, has committed.
... was the right decision then, and I`m even more convinced that, some 20 years later, it was the right decision today.
I don`t think, if I had been president, on the basis of the facts as I saw them publicly, I don`t think I would have ordered the Iraqi war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: President Gerald Ford speaking to Woodward regarding, not only Iraq, but the pardon for President Nixon. Let`s go out to Richard Shenkman, presidential historian. Tell us about Ford`s time in office.
RICHARD SHENKMAN, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, let`s talk about some of the difficulties that he faced. He was winding down the Vietnam War. We had to evacuate South Vietnamese. We had a war in Cyprus that he had to handle.
And we had Scoop Jackson -- here`s one that I haven`t heard anybody talking about at all. Scoop Jackson, if you remember, was a United States senator from my state, state of Washington. And he wanted Jews to be allowed to emigrate from Russia. And he went to the Congress and he proposed an amendment requiring, basically, the Soviets to allow 50,000 Jews to emigrate every year.
And Gerald Ford said, "Wait. You`re infringing on presidential power." And the Congress was doing all kinds of things to infringe on what had been perceived to be presidential power in foreign policy. Well, he was pushed back and forth by all of these forces, and he stood there like a rock. So I think we should remember that about his presidency.
GRACE: Back to Charlie Hurt, capital bureau chief with the "Washington Times," Charlie, everyone is familiar with the "SNL" parody, "Saturday Night Live" parody of him. But the reality was that Ford was a fantastic athlete.
HURT: Yes, he was a phenomenal athlete at the University of Michigan and football player, and apparently played sports well into his older, golden years. But I don`t think anyone will ever get out of there -- what people will always remember is Chevy Chase`s performances, depicting him as a bumbler and as -- and, of course, there are these famous true examples, such as when he clocked a spectator during a golfing tournament with an errant ball.
In fact, the elder President Bush at today`s funeral actually made a reference to that and joked that President Ford`s game was getting better because he was hitting fewer spectators. But that certainly will never...
GRACE: You know what, Charlie? That`s not what I remember. I remember -- this was long before I had ever even considered being a lawyer and fighting for Lady Justice in court. But I remember as a child suddenly realizing that politicians were bad, after Nixon.
And that was an indelible imprint on me. And I often wonder if that`s not part of what framed my opinion about what goes on in Washington to this very day.
But what I remember about Ford is that he knew how much America would judge him if he gave Nixon a pardon, but he thought that that was the best thing to do for the country. So, regardless of what was popular at the time, he did what he believed was the right thing to do for this country. And, in retrospect, I think he was right.
HURT: He certainly took one for the team there. I mean, by...
GRACE: And he didn`t have to, Charlie. That sealed his fate.
HURT: And as you point out, everyone remembers that about him, and probably doesn`t remember it too fondly or too admirably, but many historians have come around to your view of the matter, and believe now that, actually, it was a very important step to sort of prevent, especially during those dark days that the country was going through, to prevent one of our presidents from showing up in stripes and going to prison.
GRACE: Absolutely, Charlie. And in retrospect, I understand. I don`t know if I`ll ever agree with it, but I understand Ford`s wisdom, and that he sealed his own fate, his own political fate, by that decision.
Back to Richard Shenkman, the presidential historian. Richard, again, it`s great to have you and Charlie with us tonight. I want to talk more about Ford outside the White House. The fact that -- you know how alcoholism and drug dependency tears families apart? There are a lot of victims to that.
He stuck by Betty Ford through all these years -- I think it was 58 years of marriage -- helped her through all of her problems. And her name has now become synonymous with treatment and cure, partially because he stuck by her. He didn`t have to; he could have kicked her to the curb. He didn`t do that.
What about it, Richard?
SHENKMAN: He wouldn`t have done that. You know, he was the product of a broken home, and he was insistent that he was going to have a good, successful family, a good, successful marriage, and he really worked at it. He worked at it hard.
Now, Betty complained because he was away on the road all the time. Sometimes 200 days a year, he was out traveling. She didn`t like that, and she was fragile. And she broke at times from the pressure of being a public official`s wife. He stood by her.
And after the presidency, they became very, very close. And it was a remarkable testament to the way they were able to renew their love for each other.
GRACE: And even today, still the president`s wife holding back her tears at the funeral.
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GRACE: Welcome back. Tonight, we stop and bow our heads to remember our nation`s 38th president, Gerald Rudolph Ford.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... to everything there is a season and a time, to every purpose under the heaven, a time to be born, a time to die.
TOM BROKAW, FORMER HOST, "NBC NIGHTLY NEWS": Gerald Ford brought to the political arena no demons, no hidden agenda, no hit list or acts of vengeance. He knew who he was, and he didn`t require consultants or gurus to change him.
FORD: I am acutely aware that you have not elected me as your president by your ballots.
My fellow Americans, our long, national nightmare is over.
... grant a full, free, and absolute pardon on to Richard Nixon.
It was the right decision then, and I`m even more convinced, some 20 years later, it was the right decision today.
GEORGE H.W. BUSH: ... a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance.
BROKAW: And he left the Oval Office a much better place. The personal rewards of his citizenship and his presidency were far richer than he had anticipated in every sense of the phrase. But the greatest rewards of Jerry Ford`s time were reserved for his fellow Americans and the nation he loved.
Farewell, Mr. President. Thank you, Citizen Ford.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Mrs. Ford, our love to you. And to you, President Ford, good night, friend.
END
