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Nancy Grace
Orlando Mother Puts Baby in Oven, Charged With Child Abuse
Aired January 10, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, a stunning case out of Florida, a 29-year- old mom charged with retaliating after a romantic break-up by leaving their baby to bake in the couple`s gas oven. I say, throw the book at her, and I don`t mean the cookbook!
And tonight: A 13-year-old little boy, straight-A student, Boy Scout, scrubbed in sunshine, gets off the school bus stop after school and disappears. Tonight, the desperate search for a white Nissan truck, camper on top, FBI and police chasing hundreds of leads as the clock continues to tick, the boy now missing nearly 50 hours.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators believe 13-year-old Ben Ownsby may have been abducted just steps from his home. His friend, James Holt (ph), was the last one to see him on his way home from school.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ben`s dad called down here, asked if I`d seen Ben. And I said I`d seen him when he got off the bus. I`d seen him run down the hill. And that`s the last time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If anybody has an answer for us, we would really like a phone call.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. First, to Florida, an 11-month-old baby girl found baking in a gas oven.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trust me, we`re just as surprised as anybody else to think that somebody would put a baby in the oven.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Next thing you know, the police are back because she`s put the baby in the oven and turned the oven on and said she doesn`t care if the baby`s dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s just crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Too much, too crazy. This world is known for too much hate already.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The woman showed us her oven, similar to Singh`s. Police say the child was placed directly on the oven grate, leaving marks on the baby`s clothes. The child`s uncle heard crying but couldn`t find the child. He followed the sound of the little girl`s cries right to the oven.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Residents of the apartment complex where the arrest happened reacted in disbelief to the arrest of 29-year-old Sharlyn Singh for putting her baby in an oven. A neighbor who called police twice yesterday says Singh was intoxicated when the incident happened. She says the baby`s parents were fighting all morning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Right off the bat, let me tell you, the little girl is alive. She`s in the custody of the state, the mom in the slammer, right where she belongs, according to police.
Out to Newsradio 970 reporter Eben Brown. Eben, welcome back to the show. What happened?
EBEN BROWN, WFLA NEWSRADIO 970: Good evening, Nancy. This began on Monday. This couple, Sharlyn Singh and her boyfriend, had been known to have had some quarrels. They were breaking up. The boyfriend`s brother was over. He was helping him pack. And all of a sudden, he couldn`t find the baby, but he heard the baby crying. He asked Sharlyn Singh, Hey, where`s the child, where`s this 11-month-old girl? She wouldn`t respond. She then left the place. He went searching for the baby, found her in the oven.
GRACE: Well, the baby had oven grease all over it. The baby apparently was placed right on top of the baking rack, and also had marks on it, and a scrape on her head, the oven turned on, a gas oven.
I want to go out to Dr. Jennifer Shu, pediatrician and author of "Baby and Child Health." I read in the wires the baby could have suffocated. Is that because of the gas?
DR. JENNIFER SHU, PEDIATRICIAN, AUTHOR, "BABY AND CHILD HEALTH": Well, if the oven is airtight, it`s possible that the baby couldn`t be getting enough oxygen, in which case, the baby could have permanent brain damage, or even die after a few minutes of not getting enough oxygen.
GRACE: What would the inhalation of gas do to a baby this age?
SHU: Well, it`s possible that it could poison the baby`s brain, basically, or damage the baby`s lungs.
GRACE: I mean, Dr. Shu, this is how people commit suicide, sticking a head in an oven.
SHU: Absolutely. Fortunately, the baby wasn`t in there very long and they were able to find the baby from his crying.
GRACE: Joining us also, Susan Lipkins, psychologist and author. Dr. Lipkins, a break-up was going down. How does that explain, if it does, this mom`s action?
SUSAN LIPKINS, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR, "PREVENTING HAZING": Well, we don`t know that it explains it. I assume that it was a pattern, that she probably was abused herself and that she continues to abuse...
GRACE: There`s no evidence of abuse.
LIPKINS: Well, and that she was impulsive and out of control. She was drunk and psychotic for the moment, and maybe at other times.
GRACE: Why would you think she`s psychotic? Are you just looking for excuses because you can`t imagine a normal mom doing this?
LIPKINS: No, no normal mother would do that. I mean, it is homicide. You could kill the baby. I cannot imagine, other than it happening to her or thinking some cultural thing is to do that, which in itself is psychotic. So I don`t think that there`s anything other than a mental illness that would account for such behavior.
GRACE: What do you mean by cultural thing? I don`t know anywhere in the world you bake your baby when you`re mad.
LIPKINS: Right. I agree. You`d never bake your baby, and I hope nobody ever thinks of doing that. But there are ways of punishing children that people put them on rice (ph) of they enclose them in small places, or they themselves have been abused like this. That`s what I`m saying. But it doesn`t account for it. It`s still a mental problem and it`s still abuse. And she still has a tremendous amount of problems.
GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines. Robin in New Jersey. Hi, Robin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Welcome. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wanted to know, how come they`re going to charge her with child abuse and not attempted murder?
GRACE: Well, I`ve got a big question about that, too, why this is not attempted murder. Let`s go out to the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Alex Sanchez out of the New York jurisdiction, Renee Rockwell joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction.
To you, Renee. Number one, clearly, this should be an attempted murder charge. And number two, Robin in New Jersey, I hate to burst your bubble about the justice system, but Mommy`s getting bond. There was a $15,000 bond put up. Typically, you have to meet 10 percent of that. That`s $1,500. Renee?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And Nancy, there`s nothing that says that the district attorney can`t upgrade the charges later. But here what they`ve done is they made an initial arrest. It is amazing that she does have only a $15,000 bond. Nancy, with the swipe of a credit card, she`s out of there, $1,500 and she`s out.
GRACE: And explain, Renee, the bond is $15,000, but typically, she`s only got to put up $1,500.
ROCKWELL: That`s 10 percent, Nancy. That`s what`s typical around the nation. Or somebody that`s got a home can just sign their name and get her out.
GRACE: Take a listen to what police had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trust me, we`re just as surprised as anybody else to think that somebody would put a baby in the oven.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The next thing you know, the police are back because she`s put the baby in the oven and turned the oven on and said she doesn`t care if the baby`s dead. It`s just crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s too much. It`s too crazy. This world is nothing but too much hate already.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining us right now, a very special guest, Sergeant Barbara Jones. She`s the Orlando police public information officer. Sergeant, it`s a real honor to have you on tonight. I was stunned when I heard yet a new way of abusing a child. Now I can truly say I think I`ve seen it all - - microwave baby, dry cycle baby, now baby in a gas oven.
SGT. BARBARA JONES, ORLANDO POLICE DEPARTMENT: Yes. I mean, you know, police respond to all sorts of things. This was a 911 call. We got there, the uncle of the baby said the baby was put in an oven. You know, it`s shocking, but it is the reality sometimes.
This -- this address we`ve responded since 2005 about seven times to that particular day. And they seem to have a very tumultuous relationship. And unfortunately, this child`s in the middle of it, and lucky that they -- lucky that the uncle found the baby, and luckily, we have DCF to take the custody of the baby and let them determine where the proper placement for that baby should be.
GRACE: Sergeant, why is it that the dad, the biological father didn`t take the baby?
JONES: I don`t know. We don`t turn over custody at times. We contact DCF. They`ve had a tumultuous relationship, as I said, where he`s been involved in some things and she`s been involved in some things. Some of the incidences were co-combatants. So it was -- we notified the Department of Children and Families, and they decided that they were going to take custody not only of that 11-month-old baby but other children that are part of the household.
GRACE: Question.
JONES: Sure.
GRACE: You`re telling me that police have been called to this location seven times in the past. Have the children been involved in any of those calls? Has there been prior abuse on the children?
JONES: I don`t know. I just looked in the computer real quick before I came on, and I didn`t look at the details of the report. I do know that we did respond under her name to that address, and a lot of it seems to be sort of domestically related, involving in their relationship.
GRACE: And can you tell me this, Sergeant? Where is the defendant, Sharlyn Singh, tonight?
JONES: I believe that she is posting a bond, according to the jail, they told me, and that there`s some stipulations for home confinement that have to be met before she can be released. That`s what...
GRACE: Well, you know what? It`s my understanding, Sergeant, the bond has been posted. She`s about to walk out free, after leaving the baby baking in the gas oven. But before she leaves -- she`ll probably get out in the morning, bond being posted overnight -- she`s going to have turkey and beef sausage, gravy and rice, bread and juice, while the baby is thrown into child custody.
Take a listen to what a reporter had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The woman showed us her oven, similar to Singh`s. Police say the child was placed directly on the oven grate, leaving marks on the baby`s clothes. The child`s uncle heard crying but couldn`t find the child. He followed the sound of the little girl`s cries right to the oven.
Residents of the apartment complex where the arrest happened reacted in disbelief to the arrest of 29-year-old Sharlyn Singh for putting her baby in an oven. A neighbor who called police twice yesterday says Singh was intoxicated when the incident happened. She says the baby`s parents were fighting all morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, she had a few drinks, and you know, usually when she drinks, she gets a little, you know, drunk, and acting crazy. I mean, if I wasn`t here, then it would have been dangerous. It`s just that I was here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I want to go through a few of the cases that have been covered just recently: a baby placed in a freezer, a baby placed in a microwave, a baby drunk off gin, off vodka, a baby placed in the dry cycle.
It seems to me -- to Dr. Susan Lipkins -- that people take out their frustrations in life on the child. And it`s very difficult for me to believe police have been called out there seven times already, the child`s only 11 months old, and nobody thought, Gee, maybe we should take care of the child.
LIPKINS: Yes. You wonder where was the police, and why didn`t they refer this case a lot earlier? And we see that the neighbor called twice yesterday, and I`m wondering why nobody checked in on the child at all. In general, people do take out their frustration on somebody who is defenseless. And clearly, an 11-month-old is defenseless.
GRACE: Back to Eben Brown, reporter with Newsradio 970. Eben, what can you tell me about this couple?
BROWN: We`ve known that they`ve had some problems in their relationship. The police say they`ve been there quite a few times since 2005, and that in the past couple of days leading up to this event on Monday, they had been arguing a lot. I think the -- you know, some neighbors had noticed that there had been some loud noises. They had made some calls to authorities, as well.
And something happened on Monday, where they were officially breaking up. The father, the boyfriend, was outside the apartment when this happened. His brother was inside the apartment, packing up his things.
GRACE: So they were literally packing up and moving out of the apartment.
BROWN: Oh, they were getting ready to leave, yes.
GRACE: To Joanie in Texas. Hi, Joanie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was calling to find out, where was the uncle when the baby was being put in the oven? And did he not see her do it?
GRACE: Out to Jane Velez-Mitchell joining us, investigative reporter. Jane, it`s my understanding the uncle, which is the father`s brother, is over at the home, helping him clear out. They`re breaking up. It`s over. It`s done.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Absolutely. And then he turns around to Miss Singh and says, Where`s the baby? And she doesn`t answer him, according to him, and walks out of the apartment. It`s shortly after that that he begins hearing the baby`s cries. He follows the cries to the kitchen, and oh, my God, he realizes this child is in the oven and this oven is hot.
And this is such a miracle that this baby is OK. This could have been a fatality. To me, it comes down to a couple of very dangerous factors -- alcohol, alcohol, alcohol, and the fact that this was an escalating confrontation of a long-running nature going on between this couple, and the factor of revenge always has to be considered as a motive.
GRACE: How are we going to prove this case? There`s no eyewitness to what happened. Let`s go out to the G-men, all respected former feds. First to you, Mike Brooks, former D.C. cop and fed with the FBI. What about circumstantial evidence? The 11-month-old didn`t crawl into the oven, turn it on 450 bake and take a nap.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Absolutely not, Nancy. And with the amount of time that law enforcement has been called to this apartment, the boyfriend, the father of the baby, had told police and it was in the report that she had threatened the baby before. So why didn`t he take some kind of action prior to this and call the DCF and have the baby taken away from him?
GRACE: Wait one minute!
BROOKS: I tell you, both of them are culpable.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Out to you, Alex Sanchez. Did you hear that? I`m starting to smell a similar transaction. In other words, prior bad conduct. She had threatened the baby before, according to sources.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Except before we get to that, Nancy, to tell you the truth, I`m absolutely astonished that everybody on this show and everybody in the media seems to be concluding that this person is guilty, that she actually did put this child in the oven. And I`m not so certain about that.
I`m interested if someone is going to be charged with a serious offense, what is the information and what is the evidence linking that person to the crime? We know that the person that made the allegation against this woman is the brother of the boyfriend that`s helping move them out. And I`m not suggesting he falsified these charges, but I`m saying that I have a question in my mind whether or not this incident occurred...
GRACE: Falsified the charges?
SANCHEZ: ... at all.
GRACE: Oh! Hold on. We`ll clear this up pretty quickly. To Sergeant Barbara Jones. When the police got there, where was the baby?
JONES: The baby was in the arms of the uncle. And as I say, it`s probable cause. The baby had grease marks on its baby clothing and its arm that were consistent with the grate in the oven. I mean, it is a "He said, she said," but then you have to look at baby, and then those grease marks certainly substantiate the claim that the baby was in the oven. Certainly...
GRACE: What did the mom have to say, Barbara?
JONES: She indicated she didn`t put the baby in the oven, but she couldn`t explain how the baby had the grease marks on its little sleeve and its arm. So you know, we have probable cause. That`s our burden. And of course, the state will have the burden of proving the case beyond a reasonable doubt.
GRACE: Sergeant Jones is with us from the Orlando police. And already, you see where the defense will go if this ever makes it to trial, Sergeant. So why the mom? Why do police believe the mom was responsible?
JONES: Well, because the sworn statement from the uncle indicating that where -- when he asked about the baby when it was crying, she didn`t respond. She was in the area where the baby was found in the oven.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I remember, this is the oven (ph) section she (INAUDIBLE) for this one on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a gas stove. It`ll blow up a flame right away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think she intended to harm the baby?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I think she had too much to drink. She need help. I suggest she goes to rehab and get help. She`s a good mother.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This is not the first time we have heard of a mom retaliating against a little child after a break-up or during a romantic dispute. First of all, there`s Susan Smith, maybe the poster mom for such cases, Susan Smith convicted of strapping her kids into a car and driving it, pushing it into a lake. Then we learn of turmoil with her boyfriend.
No one can forget the Melinda Duckett case, Josh (SIC) Duckett still missing. That was all during a bitter custody dispute and in the middle of a divorce. Of course, Paula Mendez, when her husband announced he wanted a divorce, immediately thereafter, her three children died of poison.
Out to Susan Lipkins, psychologist. Why, when you see a break-up coming, do moms retaliate against the children? And dads, too, sometimes.
LIPKINS: Well, I don`t think that this is just a planned, rational kind of thing. I think the people are already in a heightened state. They`re impulsive, they`re irrational, they`re violent. They`re dealing -- you know, we heard from the cops in this that they`ve been called many times. So this is, you know, something that`s leading up to a dangerous event.
And the issue is, Who was supposed to do something? You know, the people involved, both the father and the mother, as far as I`m concerned, both of them should be charged with abuse in this case because the father knew that the mother was drunk and was impaired and not able to take care of her kids, at least at this point. So he was walking away just the same way. They`re both responsible.
GRACE: Out to Lisa in Texas. Hi, Lisa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just -- I mean, I don`t know if it`s a question or not, but I`m just very upset that they`ve been called so many times and nothing has been done, no investigation into each time the police have been called to their house because I understand because I`m dealing with a situation like that now, where we -- me and my husband took custody of our niece because his sister has been dealing with CPS (ph), which is down here in Texas, for over six years, and they just recently took all her kids away for over six years of neglect. And it`s the kids that are suffering with this.
It just makes me so mad. Why, if the police are being called to the house for domestic abuse, violence, whatever you want to call it, they should investigate the children also, see if anything`s going on with them also. Who`s going to -- when are they going to do that? What are they -- it doesn`t make no sense for these children to be going through situations like this. It`s very stunning to me.
GRACE: Lisa in Texas, you are preaching to the choir. You know how many times DFACS, department of family and children services, have been called out to Trenton Duckett`s house over alleged neglect, not bathing the baby, and finally, the baby`s gone? We see it over and over.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They told me that it looked like somebody had cooked her. I don`t know why! I don`t know why anybody would do that to her!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, I don`t know why you would do that to her, because that is China Arnold, who is behind bars awaiting trial for putting her child, killing her child in a microwave. This 11-month-old baby tonight lived. Her uncle apparently found her inside a cooking gas oven and saved her life. The mom behind bars tonight.
Out to the lines. Kim in Illinois. Hi, Kim.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I was curious. They said that the parents had been in some trouble before. And with the bill being $15,000 and paying 10 percent, do they not go back and see what they`ve done before? Or who sets the bail, or does the judge set it or...
GRACE: The judge sets the bail, Kim. A judge sets the bail. Typically, when you`re arrested, you have to go before a court within 72 hours. And a judge, if bail is appropriate, sets it. I find this a very low bail.
Let`s go out to the lawyers, and take a look at the definition, Liz, of aggravated child abuse. Do we have that? Aggravated child abuse -- intentional infliction of physical or mental injury upon a child, could result in physical and mental injury.
Let`s go out to lawyers Renee Rockwell, Alex Sanchez. The reality here is this is a very good attempted murder case, if we`ve got the facts as they exist, Renee.
ROCKWELL: That`s right, Nancy. But I`m looking at the definition. In that state, that charge carries up to 30 years to life. So it sounds just equal to an attempted murder. But Nancy, I`m looking at the police report. This girl`s born in Guyana. Guyana. She`s not even a citizen.
GRACE: You know what? Does that mean she`s not subject to the laws in this country?
ROCKWELL: Not saying that. But what kind of a bond risk is that, Nancy?
GRACE: Yes. You`re right, a flight risk and a low bond, bad recipe.
Quick break. When we come back, the clock`s ticking in the search for a 13-year-old straight-A student.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every hour that goes by, it`s getting a little bit harder. Everybody inside the family still has not given up. Everyone`s still got that big ray of hope hanging out there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s our worst nightmare, you know? I don`t even know how to explain how we feel. You know, it`s rough. It`s really rough. We just want Ben back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A 13-year-old little boy -- he`s only 4`10", 100 pounds, straight-A student, a Boy Scout -- gets off the school bus, at the school stop, just yards from his parents` home, and disappears in rural Missouri.
Tonight, the search is still on with the FBI and police for a white Nissan truck, saying Nissan across the back. It`s pretty dinged up, rusted, no hubcaps, got a camper on the back. Look at this. Can you help? The tip line: 636-583-2560.
A press conference went down this afternoon. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These cases in general are extremely difficult to solve nationwide, you know, and that`s usually because of lack of witnesses and lack of evidence. And that`s kind of what we`re facing here.
We`ve got one witness, you know, that has given us a very good description of the truck. But we need the public`s help.
He liked to play on the computer, play games on the computer, but there was no indication that he was really getting on the Internet or making contact with anybody on the Internet. So that doesn`t look like it`s going to reveal anything to us.
Now, I know it`s very frustrating for the family. We know what they`re going through. And, you know, we would really like to bring this thing to a close, obviously. And it wears on us, but it doesn`t wear near as much on us as it does them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This is in Beaufort, Missouri. It`s a very rural area, about 60 miles from St. Louis. But does this indicate someone was stalking the child or following the school bus? Was this a random act? How could the assailant, the kidnapper, find this home, out on a gravel road in a rural area? How did he know to go there?
Out to 550 KTRS Radio reporter, Melanie Streeper, Melanie, how has the evidence developed today?
MELANIE STREEPER, KTRS RADIO: Well, what I can tell you, Nancy -- and so far, about 30 leads have come in since Ben went missing Monday afternoon. So police continue to work those leads. They say that the investigation is progressing, and they have talked to some people of interest.
GRACE: Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Apparently we have about 20 officers assigned, and additionally today we also had our SWAT team that came out to assist in the grid search and the different searches that were being conducted.
We have criminal investigators from our division of drug and crime control from the St. Louis area and the Jefferson City troop. And they have been here since, you know, the beginning of the investigation, and they`ll continue to stay until we resolve this.
We`re going to do whatever we can to get a resolution to this. We`ve had our helicopter that came to assist in some of the aerial photography. And our major crash investigation unit came to assist in the grid and the mapping of the areas, just to give us a better aerial view.
We just have a couple more resources that we can provide, and anything that we can offer for assistance is what we`re going to get them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I also understand, Jane Velez-Mitchell -- Jane reporting on the case, as well -- that an I.D. has been made of a white male driving a car with a baseball cap on?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Absolutely. Hours before Ben disappeared, another neighbor said he saw a car that absolutely matched that description, this beat-up, white pickup truck with the camper shell driving around the area. And it looked suspicious, almost as if he was trolling around the neighborhood with a sinister motive.
Now, he described the driver of that vehicle as a white male with a baseball cap. And FBI profilers have been brought in to try to do a sketch and come up with some kind of profile. But, unfortunately, the problem with the case is that there are so many white pickup trucks in that area and so many white males with baseball caps driving them.
GRACE: And out to our G-men joining us tonight, Mike Brooks, Don Clark, Stephen Romano, out to you, Don Clark, also, there`s a possibility of changing the vehicle, either taking the cab off, or simply switching, Don, to a new vehicle.
DON CLARK, FORMER HEAD OF FBI HOUSTON BUREAU: Well, that`s right, Nancy. Clearly, you know, these people can do anything to change their character, change their vehicles, so that you can`t -- it makes it more difficult for the law enforcement, because they know, too, that with every tick of the clock, it doesn`t bode well for this victim.
So the key is to try to get as many resources as you can. And I heard the police officer said they had about 20 police officers and so forth. But they need to try and get as many as they possibly can, with the FBI, so that they can try and stop some of this.
They really do have a big area, and it`s rural territory. And I think that makes it even more difficult, because you have less eyes watching than you do in a real complex area where you have a lot of people gathered.
GRACE: And to Stephen Romano, former FBI chief negotiator and current security consultant, Stephen, now the FBI profilers have been brought in, all three of you former feds know about that. Explain.
STEPHEN ROMANO, FORMER FBI NEGOTIATOR: Yes, Nancy. These are agents that have an incredible amount of investigative experience. You know, the term is profilers, but really they`re criminal investigative analysis.
And they do very well at this, because they`ve seen hundreds and hundreds of cases, so they`re able to bring all that experience to bear and assist the local sheriff`s department in trying to locate young Ben.
GRACE: Mike Brooks, what can a profiler really do?
BROOKS: Well, keep in mind, Nancy, a profiling is an investigative tool. It`s not an exact science. But with their experience of these trained investigators, these analyses, as Steve was saying, they will take a time line, they`ll put together a time line, they`ll take everything from that area, and try to find out exactly -- draw a profile of everyone who lives in that area.
And in this kind of case, Nancy, we`re probably looking at someone that has had some contact with this young man before. In a rural area like this, it probably was not just a random act. It could have been, yes, but most likely the profiles were, say, that someone who had some contact with him in the past.
GRACE: Joining us now, a very special guest, Lloyd Bailie. This is little Ben`s uncle. Lloyd, thank you for being with us. What is the family`s theory about what happened to little Ben?
Do I have Lloyd, Liz? Is he on the line with us?
LLOYD BAILIE, MISSING BOY`S UNCLE: Yes. Nancy?
GRACE: Hi, Lloyd. Good, I`m glad I`ve got you. Lloyd, what`s the family`s theory on what`s happened to little Ben?
BAILIE: Well, Nancy, I`m hearing all of the theories and everything. And right now, the family, we`re sitting back, you know, extremely hopeful. No one has given up any hope on finding Ben or having him returned.
And the theories will come and go. And we`re going to go with whatever the Franklin County Sheriff`s Department and the FBI and the highway patrol are able to put together here.
GRACE: Well, do they have a theory?
BAILIE: I`m sorry?
GRACE: Is there a theory? What do they think happened?
BAILIE: They are telling us that they`re confident that Ben was kidnapped, abducted.
GRACE: Right. What else do they think?
BAILIE: At this point, really, we don`t have any other information. You know, we`re just sitting back...
GRACE: Do they think it`s somebody in the area? Do the think it`s someone that has been targeting him or met him at school somehow?
BAILIE: No, they`re not sharing any of that information with us at this point.
GRACE: OK. OK. Mr. Bailie, question. I know he`s a Boy Scout. Had he been to any Boy Scout jamborees or traveled outside the area for any purpose recently?
BAILIE: Not since the weather started turning cold. And the other thing there is, his father is also a scout leader. And so, when Ben goes on the jamborees or goes to campouts and things like that, Don also is there with him.
GRACE: When was the last time he went on such a jamboree? I mean, I`m just grasping, trying to think where he`s been outside the community.
BAILIE: The last time -- I really don`t have a date or know when that was. That`s a question I`ve never posed to Don of what -- when the date was that they last went on one.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Apparently we have about 20 officers assigned, and additionally today we also had our SWAT team that came out to assist in the grid search and the different searches that were being conducted.
We have criminal investigators from our division of drug and crime control from the St. Louis area and the Jefferson City troop. And they have been here since, you know, the beginning of the investigation, and they`ll continue to stay until we resolve this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The search goes on tonight as the clock is ticking. A 13- year-old little boy in rural Missouri still gone. Out to 550 KTRS Radio reporter Melanie Streeper, how far away was the bus stop from the little boy`s home?
STREEPER: Well, Nancy, we`re told it was really about 500 feet; literally just a couple of minutes is all he had to walk. So, yes, just a very short walk, and it`s unfortunate that this had to happen during that very short walk home on Monday.
GRACE: Back out to Lloyd Bailie. This is Ben Ownby`s uncle. Have we heard any more from the witness?
BAILIE: No. Actually, I talked to Sheriff Tulky (ph) earlier this afternoon, and he said that they had talked to the young man again and just to firm up some more information that they had questions on. But there had not been any other information from him.
GRACE: Take a listen to what the witness had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ben`s dad called down here and asked if I`d seen Ben. And I said, "I seen him when he got off the bus. I seen him running down the hill, and that`s the last I seen him. I seen a truck sideways in the road, and it turned around real fast."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Driving around on the back roads, and we`re looking for this truck, distributing fliers, making phone calls, you know, basically just doing a lot of praying on top of all that. If somebody has an answer for us, we would really like a phone call.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To see him on TV and to realize that he is a missing child, to say the least, was overwhelming and hard. And I think it really sunk in for my whole family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This white Nissan truck, with the cab, seen speeding away exactly at the time the little boy went missing on this rural gravel road. Out to the lines. Deana in Arizona, hi, Deana.
Deana there, Liz?
Let`s try Mike in Pennsylvania. Hi, Mike.
CALLER: Hi. I was just wondering, I know his father`s a troop leader. But how many other troop leaders are in that area? Because I know we had a problem here with one that was a troop leader, and he was molesting kids, and he was wasn`t on the list for pedophiles.
And it doesn`t really take a whole lot to grab a kid that size. And, to me, for him to disappear that fast and that easy, he had to have known the person who picked him up. So I was thinking it`s probably somebody from the Boy Scouts.
And I`m just wondering if they checked out to see what the Boy Scout leaders and everything around there, because they`ve got their Boy Scout leaders and the aides, so, too, you know, there`s a big flock of people they could be checking out and find out which kind of vehicles they`re driving around in. And...
GRACE: You know, Mike in Pennsylvania, my little nephew, Eagle Scout. The other one`s almost an Eagle Scout. Long story short, we don`t have a Boy Scout connection, but I thought of the very same thing you`re thinking.
This boy came home after school every day, straight home from school, straight-A student. His only outside activity, that we know of anyway, is through the Boy Scouts.
So let`s go to our G-men tonight, Mike Brooks, Don Clark, Stephen Romano. Mike Brooks, that is a place to start, because the boy immediately got into this truck.
BROOKS: Absolutely, Nancy. And one of the places they could start -- keep in mind, there are 93,000 people in Franklin County, 162 people on the Missouri state sex offender registry.
Now, I`m sure investigators, the FBI, Missouri Highway Patrol, and Franklin County sheriffs, have already gone through to see, make sure that none of the scout leaders or any of their aides are on this list that we`re seeing right now. But they`re also going to go back and find out if any of these leaders have any kind of criminal background whatsoever.
GRACE: Hey, you know what else, though? Let`s throw this to Don Clark. It`s not just scout leaders. Think of all the kids that show up, for instance, at a Boy Scout jamboree. All the kids, all their parents, and it`s open to the public. Anybody can come in, Don. Other adult males can come in.
CLARK: That`s right, Nancy. There are a lot of opportunities there for this kid to have been kidnapped. But you mentioned the Boy Scout list. And, yes, not only do they have to identify whether or not those people were -- any of those people are on the pedophile list, but I also think they need to talk to those people. It`s a hundred and something. At least go out and talk to them, and at least go out and talk to other people that this kid may have had contact with while he was at some of these jamborees.
GRACE: And to Stephen Romano, former FBI chief negotiator, Stephen, does this fit the M.O. of a child predator?
ROMANO: Well, absolutely, Nancy. Many of the child predators are preferential molesters. In other words, they have in mind the profile of the child they would like to abduct, whether they`re of the age that Ben is.
Now, Ben looked fairly young for his age. Apparently, he was 4`10" and 100 pounds. So he probably looked even younger than 13 years of age. However, because Ben was a savvy young man, by all accounts, there`s a real good chance that he had prior contact with the person who abducted him.
GRACE: Well, it`s interesting you say that. It doesn`t necessarily mean it`s a close family friend or a relative.
Out to Lloyd Bailie, Ben`s uncle, it could be someone he is just familiar with, not necessarily a relationship with. Can you give us Ben`s exact description again, Lloyd?
BAILIE: Yes. Ben is 4`10" tall, weighs 100 pounds. He has brown hair and blue eyes. He is wearing glasses, or he was wearing glasses at the time he got off the bus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All last night, we went through Gastinade County (ph), basically. And then all day today, we made our way up to St. Louis and Chesterfield and just been traveling all the roads we possibly can.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re doing everything we can to find out who you are. You know, it`s going to benefit you and benefit them if you turn Ben loose or bring him to a house, church, or something. And let`s get this thing resolved before it gets worse.
The traffic road block that we had yesterday, I think it revealed a few individuals that we were interested in or became interested in. But the primary focus has been on the truck. But we have been looking at some individuals, too. Nobody is really what we consider a prime suspect right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Tonight, alert. Last night`s story on Baby Hope Rose, the baby girl abandoned on the Portland, Oregon, doorstep, just hours old. Safe haven laws are offering a safe place for babies dropped off. No questions. Safe havens are hospitals, police departments, fire stations. Almost all states have them.
But many moms fear arrest or they don`t know where safe havens are. Tonight, we are calling for a national safe haven law and federal funding, Washington, so abandoned babies have a safe, secure haven. Please, we must eliminate confusion. Safe havens needed. They need obvious marking; they need symbols or logos to I.D. them.
Call your local and federal government. Demand action. Remember, people, they are working for us.
Let`s go back to the search for a 13-year-old boy in Missouri. Take a listen to what the sheriff had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All indications are, from his teachers, he was an outstanding young man. Everybody thought highly of him. A-student, you know, the family doesn`t indicate there`s any problems there. And he kept to himself. After he got home from school, he would go and read books, play games, you know, on his computer.
So, I mean, it`s definitely a strange situation. We do feel that, you know, there is foul play. You know, obviously things can change, but that`s what we`re looking at right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Jane Velez-Mitchell, how is the search progressing?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They are doing so much on so many levels, Nancy. First of all, they`ve issued an Amber alert, and that means everybody in the world in that area is looking for this kidnapper, so they should know that. And the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children says a lot of times that means that these suspects will give the child away.
GRACE: Let`s stop to remember tonight Army Private First Class Paul Balint, Jr., 22, Willow Park, Texas, killed, Iraq, first tour of duty. From a long line of military, he loved skateboarding, rollerblading, jet skiing, huge Yankees and Giants fan, leaving behind parents and a brother. Paul Balint, Jr., American hero.
Thank you to our guests and to you. NANCY GRACE signing off. Good night, friend.
END
