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Nancy Grace
Jailed Ex-Teacher Sends Text Messages, Nude Pix to Victim
Aired January 11, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: Remember the 29-year-old Tennessee teacher convicted of sex assault on her own 13-year-old student? Now back to jail for sanding the child sexy videos of herself on a cell, and the lady won`t stop. She`s at it again, even after jail time. Former teacher Pam Rogers now sending nudie pix of herself to the same 13-year-old boy. This woman needs to be behind bars!
And tonight: The FBI and police chasing hundreds of leads in a desperate search for a 13-year-old Beaufort, Missouri, boy, a straight-A student and Boy Scout. The little boy gets off the school bus and disappears. Two witnesses now tell police they spotted a suspicious white Nissan truck in the area. Tonight, the clock ticking, the boy now missing over 70 hours.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our son, he`s a straight-A student, a Boy Scout, he -- kind of a computer nerd. He wants to go to college for programming already. He knows that. He`s 13, but he`s taking his first ACT test already. He`s just a perfect student and son.
I want to thank the community, our friends and family for all the support they`ve given us through this ordeal, and the media, too, for helping to get this story out about Ben so, hopefully, we can get him back soon and safe. And to whoever Ben is -- whoever has him, we just want to get him back safely, no questions asked. We just want to get our son back home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want people to know that we just want Ben back, that we miss him and love him, just to get him home to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. First to Tennessee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here`s 27-year-old Pamela Rogers Turner at her father`s home in Fentress County moments before being arrested. She`s charged with 15 counts of sexual battery with a 13-year-old male student.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was sexual contact of some type with this child at several locations, including the family home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This teacher is like the Energizer bunny. First she is arrested for sex assault on a 13-year-old little boy. Then she gets in trouble even after the arrest for sending sexy video messages to him, goes to jail. She gets out on a probation hearing. The minute she gets out of the courtroom, people, she`s back on the phone, text messaging this little boy, and now nudie pix. When will it end? What can the parents do to stop this stalking behavior, teacher on student?
Out to investigative reporter Jane Velez-Mitchell. Jane, what`s happening now?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: I got to tell you, Nancy, this case just gets more and more shocking. What`s happening now is she is finally going to do some hard time. Authorities say this all began in November of 2004, when Pamela Rogers embarked on a torrid sexual relationship with a 13-year-old boy...
GRACE: Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait!
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... that lasted three months...
GRACE: Wait! Wait! There is no such thing as a sex relationship with a 13-year-old. Please! That`s part of the problem, Jane Velez- Mitchell. No offense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I stand corrected.
GRACE: That is sex battery on a child.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are absolutely right. In fact, because of what she did, she was originally charged with 28 counts of statutory rape and sexual battery by a figure of authority. But she managed a fabulous plea deal. She could have gone to jail for 100 years. She ended up doing six months behind bars.
GRACE: Jane! Jane! Jane, can you see the monitor?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I can.
GRACE: Yes. I`m all for expressing yourself, but this video -- which, PS, is to the music "Hot for Teacher" -- is what this lady, and I`m using the word only loosely, sent to a 13-year-old child -- 13-year-old child! Now, what if a man, the PE teacher at the high school, wearing a thong, had come up dancing with a thong on and sent it to a 13-year-old little girl? How...
OK, you know what, Liz? We`ve seen it. You can stop now.
How much time did she do, Jane Velez?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, she got out after six months, and she was on probation, but there were very specific terms of that probation. And rule number one is, Do not contact the boy. Authorities say within a month, she did exactly that, not just with text messages but also by sending extremely graphic videos of herself engaged in sexual activity or simulating sex and also dancing in a thong. So she`s been caught. Now she`s going back. But once again, she has managed a plea deal. She could have done 16 years for this probation violation, but she is going back behind bars for much less than that.
GRACE: Hey, Liz, was that her in the back of the courtroom, popping her bubble gum a la Britney? OK, she`s just a class act all the way. But I`m not the moral arbiter here. What I care about is a felony going down under the noses of the school system and why nobody`s putting a stop to this. I heard Jane Velez-Mitchell say she did about six months behind bars.
Let`s go out to the lines. Kathy in Arkansas. Hi, Kathy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi there, Nancy. How`re you doing?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, first of all, I just love your show. You`re, like, one of my heroes.
GRACE: Bless you. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a son and he`s over 13 now, but I can`t understand how she is not doing time for this. It is such a double standard, it makes me sick. How is she getting away with this, Nancy?
GRACE: Well, you know, Kathy, having practiced law for so long, I`ve seen so many double standards. Sometimes it seems that if you`re rich, you get a lighter sentence, if you`re educated, if you`re white. In this case, if you`re a woman preying on a little boy, that seems to be the "get out of jail free" ticket. Kathy, I agree.
To Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst. You know, this isn`t just a matter of the law. She needs a shrink, OK? Look at her. She looks like the homecoming queen plus maybe three years. What the hey`s going on?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Yes, I`ve been looking at her, and it`s kind of distracting to even concentrate with some of those videos. She really does need treatment. You know, she has so many intertwining disorders. First of all, she`s anti-social. You think of anti-social as disregard for the rights of others, breaking the rules of society -- because she was very predatory. She was in a position of trust, and she broke that.
Also, like female sex offenders, she experiences herself as being an age mate with this guy -- I mean, the saucy little hat, the popping the gum. She herself acts as if she`s 13 years old. And then she is a stalker. Stalkers believe that they are loved by somebody who does not love in return. She said on her Myspace Web site that she was going to wait till he was 16 to fall in love and wait for him. And that`s really erotomania, which is having a delusional fixation on another person.
GRACE: You know, as you were speaking about her coming down to his level at age 13 -- Elizabeth, let`s take a look at some of the -- I guess they`re text messages. I don`t believe they`re e-mail messages. They are text messages. And Mike Brooks, in a moment I want to talk to you about how text messages are taken off the phone, and suddenly, they become evidence.
Here she is. She writes to his football Jersey, his soccer Jersey. "Do you still love me? Always still? Are you still waiting? Or do you want me to try to move on with my life? I miss you so much. I wish I could talk to you. Hey, did you know your number is the year I graduated high school and the year I was born? Authorities -- OK. Good morning. I love you always.
OK. Here we go. First thing in the morning. "Thank you for making me the happiest person in the world. I will have this phone tonight and tomorrow. I have to go see a counselor," a sex counselor! The woman is going for counseling because she`s a sex predator!
"Hey, baby. Save this num (ph) under a dude`s name. I thought you said you got over that girl this past summer." She was probably 12. Keep going, Liz. I`ve got one here that says, "My plans are your plans. Nothing`s changed. Say it. Say it. Always is the word."
And catch this. She says, Bethany, "I hate hearing something the opposite of what you`ve said. I hate lies."
Isn`t this woman -- yes, that`s not Bethany Marshall, Liz.
Isn`t this woman married during all this, Bethany? She`s talking about hating lies.
MARSHALL: OK. But this is how young people are. Thirteen-year-olds are highly moral. You lied to me. You told me one thing. You did another. That`s how 13-year-olds talk. You make my whole world happy. Hide it under another person`s name. This is how an adolescent talks...
GRACE: And that really tricked the police.
MARSHALL: Remember Debra LaFave. She said, Pinky pinky promise that you won`t tell your mother." It`s the same type of thing, where the sex predator experiences herself...
GRACE: There`s something else, Bethany.
MARSHALL: Yes?
GRACE: For instance, this lady, Pam Rogers, who`s finally in the slammer, thank God -- I don`t how long she`ll stay there. She`s saying, I hate people that lie. But she`s married and assaulting a child, a 13-year- old little boy.
MARSHALL: OK...
GRACE: And LaFave, Deb LaFave, was saying, Oh, let`s not lie to your mother. I hate to lie. All the time, she is having sex with a 13-year-old boy in the back of the car.
MARSHALL: People with anti-social personality disorder often take great pride on being highly moral and better than the rest, but really, it`s their own grandiosity. Remember, the BTK killer prided himself in court on the fact that he comforted his victims before he strangled them. So this false pride is really a part of the criminal mindset.
GRACE: Take a listen to what this little boy -- and a lot of you are thinking, Gee, this is any little boy`s dream, to have this beautiful teacher coming on to him. That`s not true. Take a listen to what his parents have to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My heart`s broken. You know, I mean -- you know, you want to help your children, and I just wish there was -- you know, I wish we knew what all we could do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of people have seen the video, and they`re just, like -- you know, they`re going to -- she`s going to be doing that in prison, too, you know?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that woman`s out of her dang mind. She`s hotter than crap. She can get any man she wants, and she`s messing with a little boy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In count 13, on November the 24th, the day before Thanksgiving, the defendant had intercourse with the victim at her home at Remington Point (ph) in Centertown (ph). She supplied the victim and another individual with alcohol. Later that night, an unusually high number of bottles of -- empty bottles of alcohol was observed in her trash can.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was the trust of a teacher -- you think you`re sending your children off to school, that they`re there to protect your children. And I think that`s the most appalling thing with this situation, is that you have a teacher that`s spotted, you know, what she wanted and went to the -- and did what she did. Just an incredible breach in trust.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That last sound that you heard is from the little boy`s mother.
Out to Owen LaFave, a face you know well. This is Deb LaFave, a well- known sex predator on students in her school -- former husband. He`s the author of "Gorgeous Disaster." Owen LaFave, any answers?
OWEN LAFAVE, DEBRA LAFAVE`S EX-HUSBAND: You know, what answers can we come up with? I mean, clearly, here`s someone who has some issues, apparently didn`t learn her lesson, wasn`t rehabilitated. She only served six months. Two weeks out of it, here she`s contacting the boy again. And I`m just very disappointed and I`m outraged. I mean, here she`s only getting two years. I think there needs to be a minimum sentence in terms of sexual offenders, take the subjectivity out of it, have a minimum sentence, just like there is with violent crimes.
GRACE: I think you`re right, Owen, because it seems that judges get blinded by a beautiful defendant. She is beautiful, just like your ex- wife, is just a beautiful person physically, and on the inside is just really evil to do this to a child.
Joining me right now, station manager at UCTV Nicole Partin. She`s joining us out of Nashville, Tennessee. Nicole, thank you for being with us. This is a pretty light sentence, when you take a look at what`s involved. She`s not going to even do 50 percent of her jail time.
NICOLE PARTIN, UCTV: You`re exactly right, Nancy. Good evening, and thanks for allowing me to be here. You know, we are in the Bible Belt, McMinnville, a very, very wonderful town. This is a city that, of course, has welcomed Mary Winkler, who has been accused of murdering her husband. But I`m hearing the same thing in the city of McMinnville that you`re saying tonight. People cannot believe that she`s received such a light sentence.
GRACE: You know, Nicole, I want to go through the timeline again because this is not only an attack on a child, all right? It`s not only an attack on a 13-year-old child, it`s with the parents begging for help and ongoing, thumbing the nose at the court. In fact, tell, me if I`m wrong, Nicole, that after one probation revocation hearing, she couldn`t even wait to get out on the courthouse steps to text message this little boy about sex.
PARTIN: Absolutely, Nancy. Within hours, she had text messaged him, and then within less than 48 hours, she had actually sent the video through to him. And so you know, here, just a few days before that, in the previous hearings, we had heard her sobbing, bringing letters from family members to the judge. People are just not buying it. They are loving their children, wanting to protect them. And her stories, they`re just not adding up.
GRACE: I want to impress on you guys what the timeline is. Can we take it from the top? First of all, January -- here we go. January `05, Pam Rogers has repeat sex contact, sex assaults on a 13-year-old student starting in October. In February, she`s charged with 15 counts of sex battery, 13 statutory rape. Feb `05, resigns from her job as the PE teacher. Next -- let`s move. August `05, convicted on sex battery. She gets nine months, with eight years probation. The judge gave her nine months behind bars, eight years on probation.
She gets out. She gets out in February. She doesn`t even do a full nine months. The very next month -- not even a month passes -- sending nasty text messages to a 13-year-old boy, begins sending the photos and videos via cell and Internet contact with the little boy, the one where you saw her dancing in the G-string to "Hot for Teacher," of all things. The very next month, charged with violating the terms of probation, leaves court, to resume text messaging the little boy. That is in April. Arrested again for nasty e-mails, cell phone videos to the boy. Now, January, pleads guilty to solicitation of a minor, gets two years behind bars. Nicole Partin.
PARTIN: Yes?
GRACE: I guarantee you, she`s calling this kid from the jail. There`s no doubt in my mind.
PARTIN: There`s no doubt, with a tie that strong. She`s done it before. I believe she`ll do it again. And I think everybody feels the same way. I can`t believe it. Her attorneys made a statement, saying that she is up for parole sometime next year. You know, it`s ridiculous.
GRACE: The parents need to be there at the parole hearing. They need to write letters. The community can get involved.
And Mike Brooks, hello! If you don`t know it, those phone calls at the jailhouse are recorded.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Absolutely, Nancy, as well as the text messages she sent that victim. People think, Oh, I`m sending a text message, they`re not going to be able to see what I said. Yes, they can. They can get a subpoena and subpoena the records from the cell phone carrier. And there`s your evidence right there, Nancy. This woman is a predator. She`s involved in abuse of power as a person of trust. This is unbelievable to me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here`s 27-year-old Pamela Rogers Turner at her father`s home in Fentress County moments before being arrested. She`s charged with 15 counts of sexual battery with a 13-year-old male student.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was sexual contact of some type with this child at several locations, including the family home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was a very popular teacher here in this county, and she enjoys a lot of support in this county.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was looking forward to playing sports. He says he`s not going to play now. He was looking forward to just being with his friends and being a kid again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I don`t really know if being a kid again is even an option for the victim in this sex attack. It`s a little boy this time, and the sex predator, believe it or not, has a face like a goddess. There she is, 29- year-old Pam Rogers, absolutely stalking a 13-year-old boy. There`s no two ways about it.
Let`s unchain the lawyers. Joining us tonight out of the California jurisdiction, Michael Cardoza, and Ray Giudice of the Atlanta jurisdiction. OK, Michael, give me your best shot. And don`t say, She`s pretty.
MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy?
GRACE: Yes?
CARDOZA: you know better than that. She is mentally infirm. We can put her in jail, as they`ve done. They tried that one time for that portion, what, six months? She gets out. She does it again. Now they`re going to put her in state prison. She will be there. Unless they treat her psychologically, in two years, she`s going to get out, she will pick another victim and she will do it again. And how are the authorities going to explain that to the parents of her next victim?
I will not disagree with you that she should be punished, but the first thing they should do...
GRACE: I`ve got an answer to that.
CARDOZA: ... is treat her.
GRACE: Don`t let her out in two years!
CARDOZA: Oh, come on, Nancy. I mean, we`ve got to put things in perspective.
GRACE: Yes, she`s a sex predator.
CARDOZA: Nancy, if you kill somebody in a manslaughter, you hardly get the time that she could have gotten.
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) with that. You`re giving me two bad alternatives. I don`t have to accept your interpretation of my only alternative.
CARDOZA: You don`t think she should be treated? You don`t think she should be treated?
GRACE: Yes, behind bars! She needs go...
CARDOZA: That`s fine. Nancy...
GRACE: ... to a little group...
CARDOZA: ... that`s what I`m saying.
GRACE: ... treatment behind bars.
CARDOZA: Treat her behind bars. That`s fine. Because she was given a break, and she didn`t get the treatment she needed while she was out on probation. All right. There`s the break that the government gave her. She didn`t take advantage of it. Now put her back in jail, leave her there for a period of time, but be sure to treat her while you`re in there.
And I`ve done some research, and now, I believe that the number one reason that people -- teachers get fired or lose their jobs in Tennessee -- sexual problems.
GRACE: Ray, weigh in.
CARDOZA: That`s amazing to me.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, look, you punish her for what she did to this victim. We`re all in agreement with that. But you need to treat her to protect the potential next victim.
CARDOZA: Hear, hear.
GIUDICE: That`s where I agree with Michael. Give her jail time...
GRACE: OK, well, for once...
GIUDICE: ... give her prison time...
GRACE: ... we`re all in agreement. And I think she`s to get...
GIUDICE: But I didn`t hear any treatment...
GRACE: ... all that therapy behind bars.
GIUDICE: ... in the sentence. Nobody talks about it, and there was no treatment in the first sentence.
GRACE: Quick break. Coming up, everyone: The clock is ticking in the search for a little boy, a 13-year-old Boy Scout. We go live to Missouri.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unfortunately, in our society -- our society probably precludes a lot of young men from reporting it because it`s been felt that it`s a conquest and not a victimization.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Children, whether they`re male or female, can be victims of predators in our community. And it shouldn`t make a difference if the victims are, in fact, young boys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, another teacher behind bars. After numerous warnings by the judge, Pam Rogers just will not leave a 13-year-old victim alone.
Out to the lines. Mary in Ohio. Hi, Mary.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, great. My question is, Nancy, I see -- I`ve been watching you for years, and I see where children in these types of cases are deemed as children. But say the same 13-year-old would commit, like, say, murder, and then the courts deem them as an adult. And I just wondered how does that work?
GRACE: Well, when you are dealing with a juvenile committing a crime, the justice system has to look at the sentence. And for instance, if it is a felony, life behind bars, it`s very difficult to just give the child 18 months and let them go on a major felony. But you`re absolutely right in the dichotomy in being a victim and a perpetrator.
Stay with us. We are headed to Missouri and the search for a 13-year- old little boy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he is just tired of hearing it on a daily basis. He was looking forward to peace and quiet and getting back to normal. He was looking forward to playing sports. He says he`s not going to play now. He was looking forward to just being with his friends and being a kid again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This is a 29-year-old teacher that just can`t leave a 13-year- old boy alone. And a lot of people are apparently attracted to this video. Elizabeth, Brett, if I could get a shot of Elizabeth, our senior producer, back in the -- why do you keep showing it, Liz? There she is. Can you answer?
OK. You know what? That`s the double standard we`re talking about. If a male sex predator had sent a similar video, we`d probably burn his house down. Out to the lines, Carol in -- Carol, are you calling from Massachusetts?
CALLER: Yes, I am, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: Hi, dear. Thank you for calling. What`s your question?
CALLER: I wanted to know if the plea deal that she keeps getting is given in front of the same judge.
GRACE: Good question. Out to Nicole Partin with UCTV, Nicole, is the same judge hearing this?
NICOLE PARTIN, STATION MANAGER, UCTV: Yes, Nancy, as a matter of fact, he has. And this is the same judge that has said that he just, you know, doesn`t buy the fact that she is battling some sort of sexual addiction. He was completely appalled by the letters that were sent by her family members, accusing her of being under psychological distress caused by her ex-husband.
Yes, it`s the same judge. And so it`s a very strange turn of events that, you know, people are very upset about what she`s doing, but yet she gets another break time and time again.
GRACE: Well, Nicole, let me go through this one more time. First of all, she starts these sex assaults on the little boy between October and January. I believe that was of `04. She`s sending these text messages and gets busted.
The judge gives her a break, and she basically does nine months out of eight or nine years, gets out early, and then starts the whole thing up again, sending nasty videos, sending explicit e-mails and sex messages. Her probation`s revoked, and then she does it again.
PARTIN: Exactly. Exactly. And she created a space on MySpace.com, where she talked to this young boy, she addressed him by his basketball number and would send him messages, pictures of herself there directed toward him, and him alone, and then text him things that an adult woman would absolutely know better than doing. There`s no excuse for this.
GRACE: Out to Kristy in Massachusetts. Hi, Kristy.
CALLER: Yes, hi, Nancy, thank you. I`m wondering, why has the family not removed the accessibility to this child from his predator by changing his phone number and e-mail address?
GRACE: You know, I was wondering the same thing, not that the burden is on the victim. But back to you, Nicole Partin, wasn`t she trying to get to him through other people`s cell phones and text messages, and they could somehow communicate on MySpace?
PARTIN: Absolutely, she has contacted him through family members, through friends. She was using a cell phone that actually belonged to the educational department. And when that wasn`t available, she bought prepaid cell phones. And when she couldn`t make contact with him via telephone, she would contact friends, family members, and get messages to him that way.
GRACE: You know what, Mike Brooks? This isn`t going to end. She`s going to get out of jail, and there`ll be another little boy or this little boy will be a victim again.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: You`re absolutely right, Nancy. I tell you, the dating scene in Tennessee must be awful bad when she`s got to troll the hallways of the school for a date. But this woman...
GRACE: Quit calling it a date!
BROOKS: Well, that`s what she`s trying to do.
GRACE: I`m not kidding. This is not a sex relationship. It`s not a dating relationship. Mike, just thinking about it.
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: ... She`s a predator.
GRACE: You`re a law man. If this was a man sending a video like this to a little 13-year-old girl on the cheerleading squad, what would you do to him?
BROOKS: They`d bury him under the jail, Nancy. They would have buried him under the jail the first time, when she took -- after all the counts in the first case.
GRACE: And I`ve got one last question for you.
BROOKS: It`s a double standard, Nancy.
GRACE: One last question, Brooks.
BROOKS: OK.
GRACE: Lady Justice is depicted wearing a blindfold. Why?
BROOKS: Because justice is supposed to be blind. And, Nancy, you ought to hold that judge in contempt.
GRACE: Hey, you know what? Out to our local reporter, Nicole Partin. What`s that judge`s name?
PARTIN: You know, Nancy, I don`t have it in front of me.
GRACE: Let`s ask Jane. Jane, do you have the judge`s name?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: I do, but I don`t have my glasses on, Nancy. I`ll get it for you in a second.
GRACE: I want to know this judge`s name. Let me know, Ellie, if you have it.
And the reality is, Nicole, what was the ultimate sentence? How many years did he give her behind bars?
PARTIN: The reality is 10 years now, and another two years tacked on to the original eight.
GRACE: And what was the max she could have gotten? Because we all know she`s only going to do 30 percent.
PARTIN: Yes, the maximum was over 100 years.
GRACE: Hold on. Thanks, Ellie. Bart Stanley. Judge Bart Stanley, there in Tennessee. What was the maximum, Nicole?
PARTIN: Over 100 years.
GRACE: So we all know in the Tennessee jurisdiction, you`re only going to do between 30 percent and 40 percent of your jail time, jail sentence. So giving her the nine years -- I believe you said nine years?
PARTIN: Right, right.
GRACE: He knew she was going to do three.
PARTIN: Sure.
GRACE: And she`s already done one, so she`s walking out of jail. OK. That`s the update on Pam Rogers and the state of the judiciary in Tennessee, OK?
Now, I`ve got to take you to a search for a little boy. And tonight I am personally asking for your help. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The only thing right now we can do is pray, and I know it`s the only comfort that we have as a family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just hope that they find him quickly. You know, you just -- as parents (INAUDIBLE) it`s hard enough, but you just try to imagine what the kid`s going through, what Ben`s going through, and that`s heartbreaking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I`m talking about a 13-year-old little Boy Scout. He`s 4`10". He only weighs 100 pounds, got off the school bus, and has never been seen again. Today, the last witness to see him passes a polygraph. Tell me the latest, Melanie Streeper with 550 KTRS.
MELANIE STREEPER, KTRS RADIO: Sure, Nancy, I can tell you that, at this point, more than 500 leads have come in, some of those from out of state, regarding the vehicle. Most of those leads are regarding the vehicle, and a little bit of information has changed with regard to that vehicle, that white pickup truck which we thought was a Nissan. Police are now telling us it could also be a Mazda. And what we thought was rust on the side of the car could actually be dirt.
GRACE: What else do we know tonight, Melanie?
STREEPER: Well, I tell you what, Nancy, the parents of this little boy, Ben Ownby, they did make a plea to whoever took their son to just please bring him back. They said they will never quit looking for their son.
GRACE: Speaking of the parents, this is what they had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DORIS OWNBY, MOTHER OF MISSING CHILD: We want people to know that we just want Ben back, that we miss him, and love him, and just to get him home to us.
DON OWNBY, FATHER OF MISSING CHILD: I want to thank the community, our friends and family for all the support they`ve given us through this ordeal, and the media, too, for helping get this story out about Ben, so hopefully we can get him back soon and safe.
And to wherever Ben is, or whoever has him, we just want to get him back safely, no questions asked. We just want to get our son back home.
It`s a shock to us. It doesn`t seem real. Any minute it seems like we`re going to see him walk out of his room or hear him playing his games, but it doesn`t happen. We just need anybody who thinks or maybe even suspects they know something just to come forward with it, even -- maybe it`s unfounded, but it could possibly be something. It could be something that would break this thing open for us so we can get our son home safely.
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GRACE: You`re hearing from the mom and dad of little Ben Ownby. And joining me tonight, two very special guests, his uncle, Lloyd Bailie, and Mitchell Hults. This is the last person that is known to have seen Ben alive.
Mitchell, thank you for being with us.
MITCHELL HULTS, FRIEND OF MISSING BOY: OK.
GRACE: Mitchell, I understand that you decided of your own free will to go take a polygraph and passed with flying colors.
HULTS: Yes.
GRACE: Mitchell, tell me what you saw when you last saw little Ben.
HULTS: The last time I seen Ben was when he got off the bus, he got off the bus first. Then the bus went about 50 feet. I got in my truck. I went down Booth Lane, I turned on Wild Rose Lane, and I seen a white Nissan truck sideways in the road.
Then it turned around and took off down Wild Rose Lane, and I followed it all the way down to my neighbor`s driveway, went in my neighbor`s driveway. I pulled up in the driveway, and the truck backed up, and that`s the last time I`ve seen the truck.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON OWNBY: He has his whole life ahead of him still, and we just want to get him back safe. Let him finish that. Let his family have him back. We love you, and we`re not going to quit looking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I could hear the father`s voice cracking there at the end. The father and mom speaking out today. Joining us, Ben`s uncle, Lloyd Bailie. How are the parents tonight?
LLOYD BAILIE, UNCLE OF BEN OWNBY: Nancy, this has been a very long, trying day, especially since they were -- and there`s really no way to prepare for this. But they were trying to prepare for this interview tonight. The plea -- I mean, the heartfelt plea is still there, and we`re just praying that someone out there heard that plea to bring Ben back to us.
GRACE: Everybody that can hear the show tonight, he is 4`10", 100 pounds. Look at him. He`s a little bit of a bookworm, loves to play videogames, a straight-A Boy Scout. Just a few yards, really, from his parents` front door, the school bus let`s him right off right there in a rural area, on a gravel dirt road, and he`s gone, that fast, gone.
Back to you, Lloyd, how did the car description change from a Nissan to possibly a Mazda? That changes a lot, for Pete`s sake!
BAILIE: Well, the Nissan and Mazda compact trucks are similar in shape and design. I don`t think that anyone said that it definitely is a Nissan or it is a Mazda. It`s just that possibility may be there.
GRACE: OK, to Mike Brooks, what about this? Mike, why can`t police do a search of vehicles in that general make -- you know, we could limit it to four or five years -- in the area, say, the five surrounding counties. Would that be that hard?
BROOKS: Well, if I was an investigator, Nancy, that`s one of the things I would be concentrating on right now. In fact, the sheriff today at the presser this afternoon said that most of the 500 leads that they`ve gotten in are about this truck.
And he, again, pleaded with anyone, even if you think you saw something, even if you say, "Well, I`m not sure if I really saw anything," he doesn`t care. Call in. Let the police take your name. Let them come out and interview you.
Again, most of the leads on that 500 truck. They`ve got 30 to 40 law enforcement officers every day working on this case. They want to find Ben. They want to find Ben as much as his parents do, and it`s just today at the press conference it was very, very sad, but the sheriff did say they now have two witnesses.
And the one witness initially said he thought what might have been rust may have been dirt. But that`s OK. The same general description is still out there. Apparently, they had Nissan on the left rear side of this truck, which would be the driver`s side.
But again, if -- even if it`s not a Nissan, if you see a white truck, let somebody know about it. The investigators are working with the Department of Motor Vehicles. The FBI have not come out -- the profilers have not come out with their report as of yet, Nancy, but still, there`s still hope of finding this young boy.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president of Beyond Missing, Marc, what can the parents do tonight?
MARC KLAAS, FOUNDER OF BEYOND MISSING: Well, the parents can do a lot of things. Obviously, they want to continue working with law enforcement and appearing in the media, showing new pictures of Ben, maybe showing some videotape of Ben, humanizing him so that people can become more invested, more emotionally invested in this.
But I think, beyond that, what they want to do is, now that they realize that this thing might go on for a while, is they want to start putting together a plan. They want to start thinking of ways to keep Ben`s face in the public media, or in the public venue, over the long extended period of time.
Because what`s going to happen is that ultimately, if law enforcement is unable to develop these leads, they`re going to day after day say, "We have nothing new to report," which is going to ultimately drive away the reporters and ultimately allow law enforcement to ease back on the case.
So they`re going to have to start developing strategies, either on a daily or a weekly basis to bring him back into the public view on a regular basis. And the sooner they start that series of initiatives, the more successful they`ll be with it.
GRACE: Marc Klaas is the president of Beyond Missing. He lost his own little girl, Polly Klaas, many years ago.
I want to go back out to Mitchell Hults, the last person to see Ben alive that we know of. Mitchell, again, thank you for being with us. Mitchell voluntarily submitted to a polygraph test. He passed it with flying colors.
Mitchell, tell me a little bit about this car. Do you feel confident you saw a Nissan? Could it have said "Mazda" on the back?
HULTS: I believe it said "Nissan" on it.
GRACE: OK. So I`m assuming in black letters?
HULTS: Do what now?
GRACE: I`m assuming it`s a white truck with black letters?
HULTS: Yes.
GRACE: And you noticed it did not have hubcaps?
HULTS: Yes.
GRACE: What else did you notice about it?
HULTS: I know it had a camper shell on it and a ladder rack on top.
GRACE: Ladder racks. What`s that, ladder racks?
HULTS: Where you mount like a ladder on there.
GRACE: On top of the camper?
HULTS: The camper shell, yes.
GRACE: Now, what is that? What is that, Mike Brooks? Why would you have ladder racks mounted? Does that mean -- is he a construction worker? What does that mean, painter? What does that mean?
BROOKS: It could mean all of the above, Nancy. It could mean he`s a painter, that he`s a private contractor, that he does some construction. But it`s very distinguishable that, with that rack on top that Mitchell was just talking about, especially with a camper shell with a window that runs the whole long side of the truck itself.
GRACE: Hey, hey, back to you, Mitchell. You didn`t see Ben in the truck, right? You just saw a u-turn and pulling out really fast, right?
HULTS: Yes.
GRACE: Now, you said you followed it to one of your neighbors. Could you tell if there was a passenger in the car?
HULTS: No, I couldn`t.
GRACE: Tell me about the little boy. Would he get into a car with somebody he didn`t know?
HULTS: No.
GRACE: Had he recently been away to one of these scout jamborees or to a camp or anything like that?
HULTS: Not that I know of.
GRACE: And you have known him since he was born, right?
HULTS: Yes.
GRACE: You feel that he would put up a fight with somebody he didn`t know, Mitchell?
HULTS: Yes. Oh, yes.
GRACE: So, Lloyd, this says to me that, in some way, this is someone he had met before, whether he knew them or not, but someone he had met somehow, Lloyd.
BAILIE: That has got to be a very real, explorable option, Nancy.
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DON OWNBY: Our son, he`s a straight-A student, a Boy Scout, kind of a computer nerd. He wants to go to college for programming already. He knows that. He`s 13, but he`s taking his first ACT test already. He`s just the perfect student and son.
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GRACE: You know, Google says they`re about to start mapping out the moon, but we can`t find this 13-year-old little boy. Out to Ray Giudice, Michael Cardoza. To you, Ray, what about cross-referencing the local known sex offenders with white Nissan vehicles?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Sure. Sure.
GRACE: Thought?
GIUDICE: I`m absolutely sure -- although you wouldn`t think you`re going to find a whole lot of convicted sex offenders out in a rural area, but that would be first. They`d look at the vehicle, cross-reference the convicted felons, sex offenders.
But one thing that this witness said that I want to emphasize, this young man who`s a witness is apparently 15, 16 years old. I put a lot of credence in a 16-year-old man when he describes a vehicle. Most kids, most boys in that age -- and I was one of them -- can tell you the make and model number of a vehicle. So I think he`s given them some pretty good information.
GRACE: Agree, disagree, Michael?
MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, I absolutely agree. And I`ll tell you what, if somebody`s out there that has this little boy, here`s what they should do. It`s not too late to save yourself. Go in and see a lawyer. You`ve got the best bargaining chip in the world. You`ve got that little boy. Let that attorney get a hold of law enforcement, turn the little boy over. They can work a deal for you right now.
GRACE: Michael, Ray, from your mouth to God`s ears.
Tonight, let`s stop to remember Army Private First Class Alan Blohm, 21, Kenai, Alaska. Enlisted straight from high school like his grandfathers. He loved football and salmon fishing and wanted to be a state trooper. Alan Blohm, American hero.
Thank you to our guests, and to you. NANCY GRACE signing off. Good night, friend.
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