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Nancy Grace
Missing Boys Found Alive
Aired January 12, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have some good news for you this evening and probably some unbelievable news. Some of you may already speculate on what we have, but we did locate Ben this afternoon in the city of Kirkwood. And we`ve also located Shawn Hornbeck, who was at the same residence with him when he was located.
This all started last evening, based on information that was received from two Kirkwood police officers. They went to a residence in an apartment complex to serve a warrant. While they were at that location, they found a vehicle which fit the description of the truck that we were looking for, took photographs of it. As things developed, we made contact at the residence and based on that, resulted in the recovery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST: Wow! Breaking news tonight. A 13-year-old straight-A student disappears after school on Monday after he gets off the school bus in Missouri. Tonight, a major break in the case, Ben Ownby found alive. And a surprise twist in the investigation tonight, another Missouri boy missing since 2002, Shawn Hornbeck, found alive along with little Ben Ownby.
Good evening, everybody. I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace tonight. For the latest on this astonishing story, breaking developments, let`s go straight out to Melanie Streeper with 550 KTRS radio. Melanie, we don`t usually get to report this kind of good news. Give it all to us.
MELANIE STREEPER, 550 KTRS: Yes, I can tell you what, this is truly an amazing story, happy ending for both of these families, two families, two communities, the entire St. Louis area just elated after the discovery of these two little boys in a Kirkwood apartment late this afternoon.
What I can tell you is that, yes, 11-year-old -- well, he was 11 at the time, but he is now 15 years old -- Shawn Hornbeck, he had been missing since 2002. He`s now 15 years old. He was discovered along with Ben Ownby, who went missing late on Monday after getting off the school bus. They were both found inside the apartment of a 41-year-old man who is a convicted sex offender.
LALAMA: All right, we know -- oh, there`s so many questions to ask, I hardly know where to begin. But let`s start with this. Michael Devlin is the suspect`s name. We know he has a long rap sheet. We`ll get into that later. But you know, I assume -- as you said, the arrest warrant, they go into the house, was he there at the time? I know the two boys were there. Did he resist arrest? How did it all come down?
STREEPER: Well, from what we are understanding -- and everything really still unfolding. We understand that last night, acting on a tip from a concerned neighbor, who actually saw that vehicle -- we had been talking about it all week long -- they saw that vehicle, the white truck in question. They actually called police. Police came out last night and attempted to enter the residence of Mr. Devlin, but Mr. Devlin was not going to let police in there.
LALAMA: Aha!
STREEPER: So of course, police had to go back, get the search warrant and actually serve it today. And that is when they made the discovery of these two little boys.
LALAMA: Unbelievable. Let`s go out to our favorite law enforcement expert, Mike Brooks. All kinds of credentials behind you, terrorism task force, everything else. This is astonishing police work, and good citizenry, as well, wouldn`t you say?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: I tell you what, Pat, it`s just an unbelievable working relationship between state, local, federal law enforcement, and it`s just good old- fashioned police work.
LALAMA: Yes.
BROOKS: A law enforcement source close to the investigation who I was speaking to just a short time ago, Pat, told me that as this case developed, they went out and actually interviewed Devlin, and there was a 15-year-old boy in the apartment. They went back, they watched the apartment for a while, went back a second time, interviewed him. He did admit that, yes, this was Shawn Hornbeck, and then also said, Yes, I also have Ben Ownby.
And it`s just good old-fashioned police work at its best. And you know, my hat`s off to the Franklin County, to Kirkwood, the Missouri Highway Patrol and the FBI, as well.
LALAMA: Absolutely. And our understanding is he is being held on a million dollars bond, and so far, only charged with one count of abduction. My guess is that`s probably going to expand as time goes on.
I want to talk to our good friend, Marc Klaas, who has dedicated his whole life to helping children like this in the wake of your own child`s tragic ending. And we`re so thrilled to have you with us. Boy, what -- I mean, we don`t ever get to tell these kinds of stories, at least not enough, Marc. What do you have to say about it?
MARC KLAAS, BEYONDMISSING.COM: Well, I mean, that`s absolutely right, Pat. Today is sort of the World Series of missing kids here for St. Louis, and they should be celebrating at the same level they were just a few months ago.
You know, there`s two very important components of this recovery that Mike forgot to mention, and that would be the media and the public`s -- the public because, you know, they were both integral in the recovery of this child. And it just shows, you know, the importance of these kinds of partnerships, where everybody is working together towards a common goal.
LALAMA: You got it.
KLAAS: I could count the number of missing kids that have been recovered like this on one hand. So this is just -- you know, this is a wonderful thing for everybody.
LALAMA: Absolutely. And let`s hear more from local law enforcement. Let`s hear that tape right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have some good news for you this evening and probably some unbelievable news. Some of you may already speculate on what we have, but we did locate Ben this afternoon in the city of Kirkwood. And we`ve also located Shawn Hornbeck, who was at the same residence with him when he was located.
This all started last evening, based on information that was received from two Kirkwood police officers. They went to a residence in an apartment complex to serve a warrant. While they were at that location, they found a vehicle which fit the description of the truck that we were looking for, took photographs of it. As things developed, we made contact at the residence and based on that, resulted in the recovery.
There`s a lot of things that we can`t really tell you right now, for a couple reasons. There`s a lot we don`t know. We`ve got a lot of work to do on this yet, a lot of interviews. But obviously, as things progress, we`ll be having press conferences to kind of pass on the information to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: OK. Now, we are fortunate enough to be joined by Shavonne Perkins. I believe I said your name properly. Shavonne, you are Mr. Devlin`s next-door neighbor, and you actually had some words, not bad words, but said hello to Shawn at one point, is that true?
SHAVONNE PERKINS, NEXT-DOOR NEIGHBOR: Yes.
LALAMA: Tell us what happened. Tell us what you`ve been observing.
SHAVONNE PERKINS: Well, he`s just like a normal kid. You know, he had friends and everything, so I never thought anything about it. When I see him, I just say hi. And he says hi back.
LALAMA: Did you assume that he was Mr. Devlin`s son? I mean, what did you know about their relationship?
SHAVONNE PERKINS: I just assumed it was his son because one time he accidentally broke our bedroom window, and we said, Go get your daddy, he came back with the next-door neighbor.
LALAMA: He broke out of a window?
SHAVONNE PERKINS: No, he, like, broke our window with a...
LALAMA: Oh! Oh, OK. Like kids do. OK. I got what you`re saying.
SHAVONNE PERKINS: Yes.
LALAMA: Now, did you notice Mr. -- or the little guy, Ownby, Ben Ownby -- have you noticed him over the last week there?
SHAVONNE PERKINS: No, I haven`t seen him.
LALAMA: What about Mr. Devlin? How well do you know him?
SHAVONNE PERKINS: Not that well. I don`t talk to him that much.
LALAMA: So you really don`t have any feelings one way or the other about him?
SHAVONNE PERKINS: No.
LALAMA: Did Shawn, in particular, since he`s the one you saw and had contact with -- did he seem healthy? Did he seem happy? Did he ever look depressed? Did he look like he had been physically harmed in any way?
SHAVONNE PERKINS: No. He was real quiet. So I`ll say hi and he`ll say hi. But he looked healthy.
LALAMA: Well, that`s good to know. And hopefully, there hasn`t been too much damage to these poor little guys. Shavonne, thanks a whole lot. I appreciate that.
I want to go back to Mike just for a second, Mike Brooks. Couldn`t this possibly open the door, I mean, a can of worms to other missing kids in this particular area? I mean, this guy, my understanding, has sex offenses from Oregon, but wasn`t registered. That`s a whole other issue we need to talk about. What might this open up for us?
BROOKS: Well, they`re going to have to go back right now, Pat, and they`re going to have an extensive interview with this guy and try to find out exactly, over the last four years, I mean, even going back further than that, what he`s been doing.
And you know, my question also is with Shawn Hornbeck. You know, did he go to school? Was he home schooled? How long did the neighbors see him at this residence? There are a lot of questions. This is early on. There`s a lot of work for law enforcement to be done right now.
And the FBI -- you know, they have a new entity that not many people have heard about called the CARD team. It`s the Child Abduction Rapid Deployment team that brings a lot of resources in, and they have also brought in the Critical Incident Response Group to set up the command posts that have been assisting local law enforcement.
And they also have a data base, and I`m sure they`re going to use this data base in the investigation, Pat. And it brings in Choicepoint, Lexis- Nexis, and it can go back and check everything that this guy has been doing financially...
LALAMA: Right.
BROOKS: ... and everything else over the number of years to find out what kind of path he has had from Oregon to Missouri.
LALAMA: Right. And you know what? Let me just interrupt one second. I want to Paul Henderson to address this, our prosecutor. You know, if you have sex offenses in Oregon -- or excuse me, in Utah, I understand -- now, my understanding, across the nation, is that you have to keep signing up every year. Here I am, here I am. I haven`t left. And then if you move, you`ve got to do that. He clearly -- if we`re looking at the rap sheet properly, he didn`t do that. Now, what`s wrong with the system that we didn`t know this?
PAUL HENDERSON, DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, generally, what happens is, there`s a big case that`s made when people don`t register, and you can face more criminal charges. So it`s a big deal that we found these children. And it`s a break for their community. It`s a break for their family. But it`s also a big break for law enforcement, who is really going to be focused on this convicted sex offender.
And keep in mind, these are going to be federal charges because they involve interstate travel and interstate kidnapping, where he`s moved the kids or transported the kids. So I know law enforcement is going to want to talk to them, speak with them, find out how many charges this guy`s going to be facing. While he`s only facing one charge right now that he`s being held on, we can expect to have a lot more charges facing this guy very, very soon. And I don`t think he`s going to see the light of day for a long time.
LALAMA: Well, if he is, in fact, guilty, let`s hope that`s true.
Renee Rockwell, defense attorney, I`m sure that you would wonder, as a defense attorney, well, you know, Shawn Hornbeck has been with him for four years. He hasn`t made an attempt to leave that we know of -- that we know of -- and there probably have been opportunities. I think this sounds a lot like Elizabeth Smart, when people wondered, why didn`t she just run? You know, what happened to her? Is it Stockholm syndrome? Would you argue that maybe the kid was perfectly happy there? What do you do with something like this?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s hard to imagine what he may have been told to where he didn`t want to leave or -- he obviously had a number of opportunities. But I was talking with Mike Brooks, and it sounds exactly like Stockholm syndrome. Do you remember Patty Hearst when she...
LALAMA: Absolutely.
ROCKWELL: What was she involved in, robbing banks, you know, with these other people? It`s just interesting. And it`s a situation where -- I don`t see them interviewing this guy, though. This guy`s been too much involved with the system, where he`s actually going to start confessing.
LALAMA: Well, let me just interrupt, though. Allegedly, or shall I say, reportedly, he has confessed. Now, that`s -- a prosecutor has reportedly said this. I don`t know. I mean, what do you make of that?
ROCKWELL: Well, any attorney is going to try to, of course, throw that out. But you`ve got him, you`ve got these two boys. These are not only kidnapping charges, but in this state, they have a charge called child kidnapping, which is 10 to 30 to life, Pat. So here`s just two, and this might just be the tip of the iceberg.
LALAMA: OK. Mike Brooks, back to you. You have details on the prosecutor reportedly saying that Devlin confessed?
BROOKS: Yes, that`s what we`re hearing right now, Pat, but we haven`t been able to independently confirm that as of yet. But that`s what we`re hearing. And just to kind of dovetail on what Renee was talking about a little bit about the Stockholm syndrome -- I was a hostage negotiator for 22 years, and this is, you know, something we talk about now and then and just kick it around.
But you don`t know how -- that -- you know, how Devlin got into this boy`s head over four years. Four years is a long time. You know, what was he telling them? You know, his parents didn`t love him. There`s all kinds of things. And we heard from the neighbor that he was a very, very quiet boy, you know? But how long has he been living there? You know, had Devlin taken him across other state lines, other places?
These are questions that are going to be answered by the local law enforcement and the FBI. And there are a number of federal charges that he could also face, especially on this crossing state lines, for whatever he was doing with this young man, and also with the failure to register as a sex offender. There are federal charges and he could be brought up on those also, Pat.
LALAMA: Yes. It`s incredible. Melanie Streeper, back to you, from radio station 550. You know, what are you hearing about this man, and you know, the situation specifically regarding him?
STREEPER: Well, I can tell you what, Pat. We, too, are hearing that he did confess to that count of kidnapping. Of course, he`s charged with one count of kidnapping in the first degree with regard to 13-year-old Ben Ownby. So we, too, are hearing that he has confessed to this crime.
We can tell you that he is a pizza delivery driver at one of the local chains here in St. Louis, notably the Kirkwood area. So he had been in the Kirkwood area for some time. We believe he worked for that pizza chain for about 15 years. And we are hearing that he had exposed himself -- those are some of the charges in another state, I believe it was Utah, and possibly...
(CROSSTALK)
STREEPER: Yes, possibly, we are hearing, the state of Texas, as well.
LALAMA: Unbelievable. Now, my understanding is little Ben -- I hate to call him little, but -- 13 years old, he`s a young kid -- have one myself -- he gets off his school bus. This is a Boy Scout, a straight-A student -- gets off the school bus. His house is 500 feet away. How in the heck -- I mean, does anyone have any details besides it was just a guy in a white truck? Was it at gunpoint? Did he know the kid? I know his father is referred to as a computer geek, but they didn`t have any reason to believe he was on line meeting this guy. What do you know about their connection, or lack thereof?
STREEPER: Well, still no word on the particular connection. And you`re right, it was just a two-minute walk from the bus stop to his house. So we don`t really know the connection, at this point. But certainly, this evening, police were praising his 15-year-old friend -- I believe his name is Mitchell Hults. They were praising him for his accurate description of that white vehicle.
LALAMA: Wow.
STREEPER: They said it matched it to a T.
LALAMA: It`s just extraordinary. What`s it like in your town? I mean, what`s everyone -- is it just, like, the buzz?
STREEPER: Yes.
LALAMA: I know that sounds rhetorical.
STREEPER: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I can tell you that, you know, we`ve been following this story all week long with regard to...
LALAMA: Oh, by the way. One second. We`re looking at a new video of Mr. Devlin. So go ahead.
STREEPER: OK.
LALAMA: Finish your thought, but very quickly because we`re running out of time here.
STREEPER: We`ve been talking about Ben Ownby all week. And you know, I`ve been in this area for a while, and I covered the Shawn Hornbeck case back in 2002. So we`re all truly very happy for these families.
LALAMA: I can`t even imagine what his parents and Shawn Hornbeck`s parents, too -- and hopefully, we`ll be able to hear from them. So I`m happy about that. Again, this is Mr. Devlin, 41 years old -- well, that`s not him, but that`s -- is that -- I`m not seeing (INAUDIBLE) was Mr. Ownby or Mr. Hornbeck. But now this is Michael J. Devlin, 41 years old, rap sheet including two sex offenses in Utah. He was not registered in Missouri. That`s a big problem. We`ll talk about that. I want to talk about that with Marc Klaas, about the problems with the system when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did locate Ben this afternoon in the city of Kirkwood. And we`ve also located Shawn Hornbeck, who was at the same residence with him when he was located. This all started last evening, based on information that was received from two Kirkwood police officers. They went to a residence in an apartment complex to serve a warrant. While they were at that location, they found a vehicle which fit the description of the truck that we were looking for, took photographs of it. As things developed, we made contact at the residence, and based on that, resulted in the recovery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama, sitting in for Nancy Grace tonight. Just a little fact checking. This is all happening as we`re speaking, so bear with us while we tell you that the mug shot you originally saw of a Michael J. Devlin -- forget that. That`s not the guy. The video of Michael Devlin is, in fact, the 41-year-old man who has been charged with one count of abduction regarding the Ben Ownby and Shawn Hornbeck matters. Probably more charges are pending, we can only assume. So again, this is the guy right here, the one you need to remember.
A couple of other things, just to give you a perspective. I had asked the question earlier, you know, two kids -- could there be more? Has this blown the lid off? We`re going to take a look at a map that we`ve created for you that shows that Ben and Shawn are really not that far from each other, Ben Ownby and Shawn Hornbeck, not that far from each other, south and southwest of St. Louis. But now, look, there are three other cases just north of St. Louis. I`ll bet you families, friends, law enforcement, everyone who cares is quickly checking to see what they can find out about their young ones` cases.
And also, here`s some other things to look at, some -- I think some pretty interesting similarities in the cases. All are Caucasian, all are between the ages of 9 and I think that says 13 -- OK, good, it`s hard for me to see this -- on foot or bicycle on a public street, missing in the afternoon and last seen near their own homes.
So that`s quite a lot, when you consider -- I mean, those are pretty relevant, wouldn`t you say, Marc Klaas?
KLAAS: You know, that`s not really that uncommon. It turns out that 57.2 percent of the children kidnapped by predators are taken within a quarter mile of their home. And in fact, 35 percent are taken within 100 feet of their home. And it also turns out the bus stop, the school bus stop, is very much a -- it`s very much of a hunting ground for these kinds of predators. And I think that being known, if people would work within their communities to ensure that there`s an adult at the bus stop when the -- the school stop when the bus leaves in the morning and there when the bus arrives home in the afternoon, we would never, ever have another case of a child kidnapped at a bus stop.
LALAMA: You know, Marc, it`s so just disconcerting to think, your own child, it`s daylight, getting off the school bus, there`s his or her home, and oh, my gosh, they`re not even safe in that regard.
Mike Brooks, you`ve got some information on convictions. What`s up with this guy? And how bad can it get for him if he is, in fact, convicted in this case.
BROOKS: Yes, Pat, we`re hearing that, apparently, he did have two convictions, two sex offense convictions in the state of Texas, was registered there, then apparently moved to Utah. Officials in Utah, according to the Associated Press are saying that, yes, he was a registered sex offender in Utah at one time. But then he moved to -- when he went to Missouri, he did not register that he was a sex offender or that he had moved from Utah to Missouri at all.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have some good news for you this evening and probably some unbelievable news. Some of you may already speculate on what we have, but we did locate Ben this afternoon in the city of Kirkwood. And we`ve also located Shawn Hornbeck, who was at the same residence with him when he was located.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. Still astonishing. I can`t get over it. I want to talk to Bill Perkins, who`s on our phone. And you are, let me get this straight, in Kirkwood, Missouri, and the next- door neighbor of suspect Michael Devlin. We don`t have too much time in this segment, so quickly, tell me about your observations about this guy over the last couple of years, or however long you`ve lived next door to him?
BILL PERKINS, NEXT-DOOR NEIGHBOR: Oh, he was a pretty quiet guy, kid played around like everybody else. They didn`t do nothing out of the ordinary, really.
LALAMA: Did you ever ask, I mean, Is this your son? Is this -- I mean, did you know the relationship between the two?
BILL PERKINS: Well, there was one incident where they -- a bunch of kids were out there playing and they threw a rock through my window, and I told them all to go get their parents, and he brought the suspect back. So I figured it was his dad.
LALAMA: Wow. And then you never had any reason to believe that there was anything harmful going on.
BILL PERKINS: Nothing at all.
LALAMA: Did you see Ben over the last few days?
BILL PERKINS: I have not.
LALAMA: So what`s it been like over there the last few days?
BILL PERKINS: Last night, there`s been cops and feds everywhere. And then now today, they`ve got everything taped off and plastic over everything. Got to have police escorts to walk to and from my apartment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did locate Ben this afternoon in the city of Kirkwood. We`ve also located Shawn Hornbeck who was at the same residence with him when he was located.
This all started last evening, based on information that was received from two Kirkwood police officers. They went to a residence in an apartment complex to serve a warrant. While they were at that location, they found a vehicle that fit the description of the truck that we were looking for. They took photographs of it.
As things developed, we made contact with the residence. And based on that, resulted in the recovery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Franklin County prosecutor`s office has charged one Michael J. Devlin, date of birth 11/19/65, of Kirkwood, Missouri, at this time with one count of kidnapping in the first degree.
PAT LALAMA, CNN GUEST HOST: I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. Tonight, we`re following the amazing latest-breaking developments in the case of not one, but two Missouri boys who vanished into thin air. Astounding.
Back to, I believe its Bill Perkins, in Kirkwood, Missouri.
We were talking to you, because you are the neighbor of Michael Devlin. How long have you been a neighbor of his?
BILL PERKINS, NEIGHBOR OF MICHAEL DEVLIN: Since 2002.
LALAMA: How many children do you have, or do you have any children, Bill?
PERKINS: I have five.
LALAMA: Whoa. Do you worry now that he may have had some sort of impact on your children or any of your friends` children in the area?
PERKINS: Not personally. Because I keep my kids under control, keep them inside and whatnot.
LALAMA: Did your kids ever say, Dad, that guy`s a weirdo? Did you have any clue? Or did he ever try to contact them?
PERKINS: Not really. He just kept to himself.
LALAMA: Wow. It seems like maybe he knew what he was doing. I wanted to ask you, did Shawn ever look distressed? Did you ever see a look of, oh, I wish somebody would come and help me on his face?
PERKINS: No, not really. He was just a normal teenager it seemed like to me.
LALAMA: OK. Stay with us if you can. We`ve got other questions.
But right now I want to go to Rachel, a caller from Missouri.
CALLER: Hi, how are you?
LALAMA: I`m fine. What can we do for you?
CALLER: Actually, I wanted to know if Mr. Devlin was a sex offender, how or why did his job and/or his previous job not do background checks?
LALAMA: Paul Henderson, prosecutor, why do we not keep better track of these people? This is about the 500th story I have covered, you know, especially during my time at "America`s Most Wanted." I mean, there`s got to be a better way to keep track of these people.
PAUL HENDERSON, PROSECUTOR: Here`s what happens. These are private businesses. And maybe they did do a background check. I don`t know if they did or not. They may not have cared and hired him anyway for the job.
I know we`re hearing a lot of talk about it, but he definitely will be facing charges for not registering in that state. I just think those are going to be a small part of what he`s likely to be facing in court, given the scope and the nature of his activities involving these two boys.
LALAMA: OK. Listen, we`ve got to talk to Lillian Glass, because clearly there are psychological ramifications.
Whether this man, you know, did anything to them physically or not, just the sheer -- the abduction in and itself, from the moment you`re told, get in the truck. Lillian, what`s likely to happen to these poor kids?
LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely, especially Shawn. He was kidnapped during his puberty years. And this is going to have a major, major impact on him.
But the thing that`s very appealing and the thing that`s going to be the saving grace is when he realizes how much his parents did for him, how many things they did to try to locate him throughout the years, and how much they care. And I think that will weigh very heavily on his recovery.
And with Ben, he may be suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome as the years go by, as the months go by. And you can really have to watch him. It`s going to be very important to look at him and to have him in therapy, as Shawn as well. But both boys need to be in therapy for a very, very long time.
LALAMA: Are there any statistics that show that young people who have been abducted, you know, what kind of psychological ramifications might happen down the road? You know a problem with trust, a problem with marriage? I`m just guessing. I don`t know.
GLASS: Sure. There is going to be trust issues, definitely. And there`s going to be a lot of other issues. Not just trust, but just in general, their self-esteem, their self-worth, thinking they did something wrong. So unless there`s a team in place, professionals working with them, working with the parents, this is very important. And if there is this team, then the child can have a normal, healthy life as they get older.
LALAMA: Back to Bill Perkins, the neighbor of suspect Michael Devlin.
You know, you`ve got five kids who obviously went to school. Did you notice that Shawn went to school and did he go to school with your kids?
PERKINS: My kids are a little younger, so they didn`t go with him.
LALAMA: But did you notice him going to school, coming back from school?
PERKINS: My wife took them to the bus stop, so I don`t know.
LALAMA: So you have no knowledge of whether Shawn was in school in the area, which is something we should check up on?
PERKINS: No. I just assumed so.
LALAMA: I just wanted to know if you noticed. There was never any question? I mean, in other words, in the mornings, you didn`t notice him walking out the door with a backpack, or some books or anything like that?
PERKINS: No, I go to work before the kids go to school.
LALAMA: Have you asked your wife, you know, have you had a chance to ask her if she noticed whether he went to school with them?
PERKINS: She`s been on the phone all night.
LALAMA: OK. Well, I guess we`ll hear more from you down the road. Keep checking for us. We really need to know these answers.
In the meantime, back to Mike Brooks. More information on the convictions?
MIKE BROOKS: Yes, pat, we`re getting information in from the CNN Newsroom downstairs here in Atlanta. And what we`re hearing and reporting from the Associated Press, apparently delving has two felony convictions in Texas. We don`t know the exact charges. Which require him to register as a sex offender for ten years no matter where he lives?
He first made contact -- let me point out, he was living in Utah. That`s what they were saying. He has no contact, no criminal record in Utah whatsoever, where he was registered as a sex offender.
But apparently, he first made contact with Utah authorities in April of 2006 -- that`s what the Associated Press is reporting -- when he was living and working in Ogden, Utah, where his father allegedly lives. So I find that very, very interesting that we have a date of April 2006 of him in Utah.
Was he living between Utah and Missouri at that time? Did he have Shawn with him at that time? Those are questions that remain to be asked.
LALAMA: Right. It sure sounds like he knew how to behave like a jigsaw puzzle. In essence, just kind of keep everybody confused. And there are so many like him, we know.
I want to go now to Dee, our caller from Illinois.
Do you have any questions for us, Dee?
CALLER: Yes, I do, thank you very much. I want to know, why was there was a $1 million bond, I heard, reported. Why was that offered? I mean, obviously the guy is...
LALAMA: Well, I`m going to let Rene Rockwell answer that one. My guess is whether he was a flight risk. I mean, there`s a lot of factors that the judges take into consideration.
Rene, correct?
RENE ROCKWELL: There is. He may have been bondable. But what I understand from my sources, what I heard was, that law enforcement asked for the $1 million bond, and that`s what they got. So with 15 percent, $150,000, if he had the kind of resources, he`s out of there.
Now, the question becomes, if they thought that he maybe has any chance of making that bond, they can slap another kidnapping charge on him for Shawn Hornbeck. So there you have it.
HENDERSON: Yes.
LALAMA: Rene, if you were his attorney, just to give us an example of how these things work, what`s the first thing you`d be concerned with?
ROCKWELL: Pat, I didn`t really hear the question because somebody was talking in my ear.
LALAMA: OK. I was asking, if you were just -- hypothetically, so we can give viewers what goes on in these cases. Let`s say you`re his attorney. What would be the first matter of concern for you at this point? Just shut him up?
ROCKWELL: Just as a defense attorney, you don`t want him to make any more statements. The first order of business is to get them bond and try to get them out. And you don`t want them near any other children, so there are no more allegations of any future crimes. But I just don`t see this guy getting out because of the potential of the charges.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KATHLEEN KENNEDY, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hello, everybody, I`m Kathleen Kennedy. Here`s your Headline Prime newsbreak.
An amazing end to the search for a missing Franklin County, Missouri boy. Ben Owenby was found alive Friday in a suburban St. Louis apartment. With him, a teen who had been missing since 2002. Forty-one-year-old Michael Devlin is charged with first-degree kidnapping. He`s being held on $1 million bail.
Durham, North Carolina, District Attorney Michael Nifong wants off the Duke Lacrosse rape case. He`s asking for the state to take over. Nifong recently dropped rape charges against the three players. Kidnapping and sexual assault charges still stand.
No reason yet why a school bus ran down high schoolers in suburban Philadelphia. The bus then crashed into a retaking wall outside the school. At least 16 students were hurt.
Two people were killed Friday when a business jet crashed and caught fire in Van Nuys, California. The plane went down just after takeoff as the pilot was reporting difficulties.
That`s the news from here. I`m Kathleen Kennedy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
__: We did locate Ben this afternoon in the city of Kirkwood. We`ve also located Shawn Hornbeck who was at the same residence with him when he was located. You have one of these in your career. That`s quite an experience. And luckily that one had a positive ending. And then to have another one come up, you know, that was devastating. But to have two endings like this is just unbelievable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ben`s dad called down here, and asked if I`d seen Ben. And I said I seen him when he got off the bus. I seen him running down the hill and that`s the last I seen him. I seen a truck sideways in the road, and it turned around real fast.
LALAMA: I`m Pat LALAMA, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Mike Klaas, answer this for me. I have sons, teenagers. You know, you get off the bus, its broad daylight. The house is not to far away. What in the world does it take for them not to say, get out of my face or I`ll scream for help?
MIKE KLAAS: I can`t answer that at all. We give the best information we can to children on a regular basis. Yet, an anomaly like this comes up. His parents have said he would never get into a car with a stranger. That he`s well educated on these kinds of issues.
Yet, lo and behold, this guy comes up with his lure. And he`s obviously a very sophisticated individual who was able to gain the trust of these young men very quickly, and very easily. And whatever it is he said or did, he was able to get this young boy into his car. And in the case of Shawn Hornbeck, apparently keep him under his control for a number of years.
LALAMA: Unbelievable. Unbelievable.
KLAAS: Get into this punk`s mind and find out what`s going on
LALAMA: Exactly.
Melanie Streeper, from 5.50 Radio, could you tell us -- I understand his father said he was a computer geek. I made reference to that a minute ago. But there`s no reason to believe he had gone online and met any weirdoes online, correct?
MELANIE STREEPER: Yes, that is correct. I can tell you that profilers actually went on his computer and all they found was that, really, he just liked to play video games.
So, yes, his dad described him as a computer nerd, said he wanted to go to college for programming, already it taken his A.C.T.`s. So, yes, he loved computers. But certainly there was no evidence that he had been online with an internet stalker or predator.
LALAMA: Right. Apparently he just didn`t really care that much about the Internet. I want to tell you something I read about Shawn Hornbeck. My understanding is the only father he ever knew was his stepfather -- is his stepfather, who, through a lot of horrendous illness, including amputation of a leg, quit his job and devoted his life to finding his stepson. If that`s not love, I don`t know what is. His mother as well.
Lillian, what I`m wondering is, when he goes back to his parents, is it going to be odd? You had mentioned that love will, you know, save all, we hope. But is it going to be problematic for him to say, you`re my parents but I`ve been with this guy for four years. And here I am back at home at the dinner table again?
GLASS: He was there for so long, for about four years. So there was a bond that was established. And he may have some type of separation anxiety. He may not hate this alleged kidnapper. So there may be some feelings there.
But, yet, when he is with his parents, he`s going to develop another relationship with them, a stronger relationship. He`s going to see what they did for him. And that`s all going to weigh very heavily in his positive healing.
LALAMA: You know, I`d like to hear answers from both Paul and Rene on this.
Paul Henderson, what if the kid said, you know, I really didn`t want to be with my parents, I like the guy and I want to live with him and I don`t want anything to happen to him.
Paul, first; then, Rene. I want to hear your responses to that.
HENDERSON: That`s a really good question because I think it comes up a lot when we`re dealing with children as victims.
One of the things we need to keep in mind is, the children cannot consent to activities and behavior like this. When they`re involved in kidnapping, when they`re involved in assaults, or sexual contact, especially children under the age of 14, there is no consent. It`s not OK. Even if the children say, I want to leave home, I want to leave my community, I want to go with you. It`s not OK. It`s still a crime.
LALAMA: But Rene, could you use that as a defense attorney?
ROCKWELL: Certainly, Pat, to mitigate anything -- well, the guy treated me well, maybe he didn`t sexually abuse me or whatever. But one thing Paul will agree with me on is the state, while they only hurt the victim`s feelings, the state makes its own mind up on what they`re going to do with the people that they prosecute.
LALAMA: Mike Brooks -- good answer from both of you. I appreciate that.
Mike Brooks, I`m wondering, would he take the stand in a case -- or either of these kids, would they be forced to undergo that? Let`s say there`s no evidence that the kids were ever sexually assaulted, am I too naive in believing that maybe, maybe they were never sexually assaulted?
BROOKS: There`s that possibility. They said tonight that both of them appear to be in good health. They will be given an extensive medical examination, Pat.
But there`s always the possibility. It depends on how the case develops, how investigators go about this case. We`re early on in the investigation.
Now, we have the two boys back. That was the key thing law enforcement wanted to do.
There`s a lot of legwork still to be done. They will be at that apartment for quite some time doing an extensive crime scene examination. There, on his truck, try to find out if there`s any evidence whatsoever. And again, try to find out if there are any other victims in this area that he could be linked to.
LALAMA: Absolutely.
BROOKS: Anywhere across the country, I can guarantee you right now the FBI and everybody else, the Missouri Highway Patrol, they`re sending out teletypes to every law enforcement agency across the country with the description of this guy, after they get his fingerprints, with his fingerprint classifications, just in case they have a case that they can link to him. And this is early on.
But there`s a lot of just good old-fashioned police work still to be done.
LALAMA: And if you can imagine all the parents out there whose children have been abducted. And they`re just wondering, could mine have been a part of this. I can`t imagine the heartbreak and torture for them.
Lillian, is it possible that there`s some sort of MO on the part of abductors where they don`t sexually offend, they just want a kid around? They`re in some sort of arrested development and want to play with a teenager? Is it possible?
GLASS: It is possible, but it`s unlikely. And it`s unfortunate that there oftentimes this is sexual relationships that takes place. And it`s interesting to note that he did take the boy, Shawn, when he was 11 years old, and now this young Ben is also 11.
LALAMA: Yes. I want to go back to Bill Perkins very quickly, the neighbor of Michael Devlin.
Did you notice that he had driven a white truck?
PERKINS: Yes, he`s had that truck for a long time.
LALAMA: And any reason why you didn`t call the cops to say, this might be the truck?
PERKINS: I never even saw the story.
LALAMA: You didn`t know anything about this until today?
PERKINS: Until last night.
LALAMA: Until the cops showed up and you said what the heck`s going on?
PERKINS: Yes.
LALAMA: What are you thinking about all this now?
PERKINS: It`s pretty crazy. You never think it will happen this close to home.
LALAMA: Have you ever, like, besides the rock in the window incident, have you ever had a conversation with Michael Devlin?
PERKINS: No. Besides saying hi to him walking past him coming from work or going to work or something like that.
LALAMA: Did you know he was a pizza delivery guy?
PERKINS: No.
LALAMA: Did he have any friends that came over?
PERKINS: No. Just the boy did.
LALAMA: So it seems like most of his life was just spent with Shawn, that you -- did you see them together a lot? Did they come and go together quite a lot?
PERKINS: Yes.
LALAMA: Like give me an idea.
PERKINS: It would be like a father and son, you know. That`s how they acted.
LALAMA: And you had never any reason to believe anything bad was going on?
PERKINS: Huh-uh. There was no sign.
LALAMA: Did he seem likable?
PERKINS: I didn`t really know him.
LALAMA: Yes. Oh, wow. I can`t even imagine, now that you`re putting it all together. Maybe something will spark in your head. We`ll have to hear from you later on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have one of these in your career, that`s quite an experience. Luckily that one had a positive ending, and then to have another one come up, you know, that was devastating. But to have two endings like this is just unbelievable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat LALAMA, in for Nancy Grace. Wow. Goose bumps the whole hour. I can`t believe it. I want to go to Anita on our phones.
Anita, where are you from? Kentucky. What`s up, Anita? Anita, are you with us?
CALLER: Yes.
LALAMA: OK. Anita, what would you like to know?
CALLER: I would like to know if Shawn Hornbeck has seen his parents? And if he has, how he reacted?
LALAMA: I don`t think -- Melanie Streeper, are you with us? Has Shawn been able to reunite with his parents? I think he has, correct?
STREEPER: Yes, that is correct, Pat. I can tell you that Ben reunited with his parents and 5:00. Around an hour later, within the hour, Shawn Hornbeck was, too, reunited with his parents.
LALAMA: Wow. Any word on -- tell us what it was supposed to be like? I`m dying to know.
STREEPER: No, I really have no word on what the reunited process went with the two. But certainly, you can imagine it was truly emotional. I mean, his parents were just in the news within the past couple of days talking about the Ben Ownby case. And so they are still, you know, in -- you know, getting the word out about their own son. And then, here he is and back at home tonight.
LALAMA: I cannot wait. God love them all.
Mike brooks, we don`t have a whole lot of time, but real quickly, white truck? I know there are a lot of white trucks. I live in L.A. There are a zillion white trucks. You can`t blame everybody for not calling in to the cops to see something. But at an apartment complex, wouldn`t somebody go, wow, that looks a little suspicious?
BROOKS: You would. But my hat goes off to Mitchell. He gave the description to everybody, that we were able to put this out there, they had 50 leads, the sheriff from Franklin County said, and the majority of them were about the white truck.
But it was two officers from Kirkwood serving warrants that were observant enough to see this truck and called the Franklin County authorities, who then went out and found out exactly where this truck was registered to, and went up, did the interview, went back, did the second interview. And that was the case.
LALAMA: Hats off to all law enforcement and everyone who works hard for children. It`s lovely. And I can`t believe it.
Thank you to all our guests. And thank you at home for being with us tonight. I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace.
Nancy, thanks for letting me have the opportunity to relay a great story.
See you tomorrow night, 8:00 p.m. sharp eastern. Have a great evening.
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