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America Ready For Mormon President?; Scooter Libby Not to Testify in CIA Leak Trial

Aired February 13, 2007 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips, live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Don Lemon.

PHILLIPS: A new man in charge of an old problem, the war in Iraq. How will Admiral William Fallon lead American forces? You will hear from him.

LEMON: Deadly shooting at a Utah mall. What was the motive behind the mayhem? Investigators look for answers there.

PHILLIPS: And will a Latter Day Saint go marching into the White House? A new candidate raises the question, is America ready for a Mormon president?

Straight to Washington -- developments at the Scooter Libby trial.

Brian Todd has more for us -- Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, for a few days now, we have been reporting that this development may come to pass. Still, a pretty bold announcement just a few moments ago took some by surprise -- the defense of Lewis Scooter Libby announcing that the defendant, Libby, will not testify on his own behalf, the defense also saying that Vice President Cheney will not be testifying on Scooter Libby's behalf, fairly dramatic development.

In the courtroom, when this announcement was made by defense attorney Ted Wells,. Judge Reggie Walton asked Mr. Libby to stand up. He did. The judge questioned him as to why -- you know, basically saying, do you understand that you're waiving your right to defend yourself?

Libby said he did understand that. The judge asked him again, is it your wish to waive your own defense, essentially taking the stand in your own defense?

And Libby said, yes, sir.

So, it is set now. Neither Scooter Libby, nor Vice President Cheney will testify for Scooter Libby's defense in this case -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Brian Todd, with all things from Washington there in front of the courthouse, we will stay in touch. Thanks. LEMON: Blizzard warnings in Indiana, as conditions there worsen by the hour.

But senior correspondent Allan Chernoff is seeing a bit of relief in Indianapolis, after being pelted with sleet all morning.

Were you really pelted? Are you OK now? What is next for you?

(LAUGHTER)

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, I will tell you, we're still being pelted. I'm wondering what that relief is.

(LAUGHTER)

CHERNOFF: They're saying that we're going to be getting more of the sleet and then snow. And they are kind of dividing the city, and the state, really, in half just along I-70 right behind me.

To the north, they're saying much more snow. And, to the south, well, they're saying sleet. And they have been getting lots of freezing rain also to the south of Indianapolis.

This city itself, boy, the traffic has been a complete mess. Behind me, you see the interstate covered, and not all that much traffic, but there have been lots of accidents here, more than one 150 traffic accidents since this morning in Indianapolis alone. You can just imagine the entire state. I don't have data for that.

But, certainly, this is a great day for the kids to get outside and enjoy the snow, or the ice pellets, whatever they have got. And at least they can be outside and enjoy themselves.

In terms of power, well, that is where the real problem is, not so much here in Indianapolis, but to the south, Bloomington, about an hour-and-a-half south, they have had some major power outages, more than 8,000 customers right now without any power, partly because they have been getting not only this sleet, but also lots of freezing rain, which tends to pull down those power lines. And, so, that is a major issue for the state right now -- Don.

LEMON: Allan -- Allan, just stand there and be quiet, because I want people to listen. Open his mike up. Can you hear that? Is that ice hitting your microphone?

CHERNOFF: That's right.

LEMON: Wow. Well...

CHERNOFF: You can hear it coming down. And it's been like that pretty much since 10:00 this morning...

LEMON: Yes.

CHERNOFF: ... not that silent sound that you get from snowflakes, but, rather, little pieces of ice just coming down. That is what the sleet is...

LEMON: Yes. So, the word is to be careful. And get back in the satellite truck, so you can stay warm. Thank you very much, Allan.

PHILLIPS: Well, tornadoes to blizzards, believe it or not, it's all part of one storm system.

Jacqui Jeras following it all for us from the Severe Weather Center.

It sounds like Allan's mike was just slowly freezing up...

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: ... Jacqui.

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, you know -- you know, that doesn't feel real good either, by the way.

(LAUGHTER)

JERAS: If you ever been out in sleet, it kind of stings when it hits, so, hopefully, he will get back in the live truck and take a break before we see him again.

And, yes, that is where all that pink is here. And it's just north of the Ohio River now. That sleet and freezing rain line has lifted tens of miles north of where it was earlier. Before, it was down here in the Ohio River, and it's now taken that jog on up to north.

And some of you that were seeing that ice earlier are now seeing some of the rain. And talk about real estate, guys. Look at how many hundreds of miles that this thing covers,. you know, from South Florida, extending all the way up into the Great Lakes. It's starting to push into the Northeast now, and spreads all the way back here from the Midwest, and a very vigorous, very potent storm system.

We are still dealing with the severe threat across the Southeast, with two severe thunderstorm watches. We have got our tornado watch still in effect across the I-10 Corridor, into the Panhandle of Florida. And then we're looking at our winter storm warnings on the northern tier of this system.

The snowfall totals are going to be quite impressive, the biggest storm for many of you across the Northeastern Corridor, unless you live in Redfield, New York, right, where they had more than 100 inches of snow in the last week. Unfortunately, adding insult to injury here, the dark purple areas could see as much as two feet of snowfall.

Over where Allan was, you can see, the north side of Indianapolis, that is where you're going to see some of the heavier accumulations. Could see a good six to 12 inches of snowfall there. In fact, some of the preliminary snowfall totals are coming in. Northeast of Indianapolis, Muncie had 11 inches so far -- Springfield, nearly 10 -- Urbana, just over eight -- Indianapolis, about five inches -- Chicago, Illinois, coming in at about 3.5 inches of snowfall.

I do want to show you a live picture right now. Let's check on some of the conditions, of how things are going out there. This is a live shot from Cincinnati, Ohio. And you can see the overcast conditions. They have been receiving some rain, but look in the bottom part of that picture, just on the sides of the roadway. You can see just a little bit of snow there, reporting freezing rain right now in Cincinnati. And we think that will likely maybe change over to some snow late tonight and into tomorrow -- two to four inches, at best, in Cincinnati.

And our biggest concern for you right now is how long this freezing rain is going to be lasting, because we heard Allan mention in Bloomington all the power outages there as a result of that. Same thing could happen in Cincinnati across the metro area, due to this freezing rain. We get about a quarter-of-an-inch-plus accumulating on those power lines and tree limbs, and you know they start snapping off and coming down.

Our I-Reporters are doing an incredible job of helping to tell the story at this hour. They are just coming on in. We have got some great video to show you. Check this one out. This is from Bob Dolbee from Danville, Illinois. Danville right now is under a blizzard warning. This is a picture, actually, of his father, Roy (ph). They said seven inches on the ground this morning, and winds have been gusting around 30, 35 miles per hour. Wow. Danville, Illinois, that's in north central parts of the state.

Now on to Bloomington, Illinois. Our I-Reporter there, Rod Merckley (ph), sent us this picture. He was traveling. You can hardly even tell here, but this is I-74. He was traveling between Peoria and Bloomington, also under blizzard warnings at this hour. And you can see near zero visibility. Rod (ph), I hope you're not traveling any longer.

(LAUGHTER)

JERAS: Not a good idea to get out in weather like this. Really, stay at home, if you can at all.

Also from Bloomington, Illinois, Stephanie McCallick (ph) sent us a picture of her cat. Take a look at this one, guys. Everybody say, aww. The cat is inside, looking out her window, she says, out at the snow, maybe wishing that it could get out and play with it.

And one last I-Reporter. This is from Kim Hall (ph) from South Vienna, Ohio, another animal picture. This is her little Pomeranian pup named Boo (ph). And, apparently, he is a big fan of the snow and the sleet.

We will try and get you some more I-Reporters later.

And, guys, one other note that I really have to mention, the airports are a absolute mess, from the Midwest to the Northeast -- Philadelphia, right now, six-hour delays. If we have got the time, I will bring a bunch of them to you coming up in the last half-hour. PHILLIPS: All right, Jacqui, appreciate it.

JERAS: Mm-hmm.

PHILLIPS: Great pictures from our I-reporters.

Let's get straight to the NEWSROOM.

Betty Nguyen is working details on some more weather for us out of Ohio, I believe -- Betty.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you know, that weather is moving eastward.

And, in fact, the governor of Ohio, Ted Strickland, is going to be announcing, in a news conference -- you see a live picture of the room right now -- the weather that is headed to his area, and pretty much getting people prepared for what they are about to experience.

We saw a little bit earlier, as you know, Kyra, that New Orleans, at least near New Orleans, they were hit with some of this weather in the form of a possible tornado. One person was killed, an elderly woman, some 16 people injured. And this is headed to the -- to the east, I should say, and more people are preparing for a storm that could be hitting them very soon.

As we know, Oswego, New York, 114 inches of snow so far just in the past 10 days, so, that is a lot to be coming eastward. And everyone is just staying prepared -- and, again, the governor of Ohio, Ted Strickland, about to make an announcement on what he suggests for his city and his state.

So, stay with us for that. And we will bring you the latest as soon as we get more.

LEMON: All right, Betty, thank you so much for that.

Armed to the teeth with nerves of steel, police and eyewitnesses descriptions of an 18-year-old who opened fire with a shotgun last night at a shopping mall in Salt Lake. Now, the teen killed five and wounded four, before an off-duty officer shot and killed him. Besides the shotgun, police say the attacker had a hand -- handgun and a backpack full of ammo.

At a news conference you may have seen live right here on CNN, Salt Lake City's mayor tried to reassure his citizens.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROCKY ANDERSON, MAYOR OF SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH: This city, this region is a very safe place. This was a an incident, a very rare incident, kind of thing that we're, obviously, not used to in this community. It was an isolated incident.

And people, especially our young people, need to understand that, notwithstanding what happened last night, this is a safe place. In fact, we have experienced, in terms of the -- the most serious kinds of crimes, the lowest crime rate, serious crime rate, that we have had in 14 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And police say that gunman was a resident of Salt Lake City.

PHILLIPS: The list of presidential candidates grows again, but this guy's religion is getting as much attention as his politics. We are going to tell you why and find out if it will affect voters straight ahead.

LEMON: Defending the deal -- the U.S. envoy at the center of North Korea nuclear talks on why the agreement is a good first step.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Nukes for oil, and lots of it, a pretty simple basis for a hard-won breakthrough in the outside world's attempts to persuade North Korea to drop its nuclear ambitions. The Bush administration calls it the best opportunity for a peaceful resolution, but one big question remains.

CNN's John Vause has our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Finally, they did it. More than three years since these on-again/off-again talks began, a deal which should see North Korea's Kim Jong Il give up his nuclear program, much to the relief of America's top negotiators.

CHRISTOPHER HILL, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: It's not an easy process, no question about it. But I think this is a good first step. And our hope -- in fact, we insist that this step be followed up by other steps.

VAUSE: Under the plan, North Korea has 60 days to shut down its main plutonium production facility, in return for desperately needed energy, initially, 50,000 tons of heavy fuel oil. Another 950,000 tons will be delivered when the reactor is completely disabled. The North has also agreed to allow the return of international inspectors.

GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D), NEW MEXICO: The reality is that North Korea will not be able to harvest any nuclear plutonium. The next step has to be get them to dismantle all of their nuclear weapons. But this is an important step.

VAUSE: There is also a commitment to work towards improving relations between Washington and Pyongyang, and removing North Korea from the U.S. list of state sponsors of terrorism.

The North Koreans announced a successful test of a nuclear device last October. Since then, some reports put their stockpile of nuclear weapons as high as 12 -- and, in this deal, no word when Kim Jong Il will be forced to give up the nuclear weapons he already has.

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER UNITED STATES AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATIONS: It sends exactly the wrong signal to would-be proliferators around the world: If you hold out long enough and wear down the State Department negotiators, eventually you get rewarded.

VAUSE (on camera): But save the celebrations for now. These six- party talks have been down this road before, almost a year-and-a- half ago, when another landmark deal was reached, only to have it all break down just days later.

John Vause, CNN, Beijing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: And now to politics.

Mitt Romney makes it official. As you know, if you have been here with us right here in the NEWSROOM, the former Massachusetts governor says he, too, is running for president. If he makes it, he will be the country's first Mormon commander in chief. Will his faith be a burden or a godsend?

Well, joining me now CNN contributor Bay Buchanan.

And, Bay, we have always said you know everything about everything.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: And you're also Mormon. So, you're an expert on this as well, we hope.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: So, Bay, you know, I want to ask you right out of the gate, he announced today in Dearborn, Michigan, instead of Massachusetts. Maybe -- I want to know if he's complain -- if he's playing to a conservative audience by doing this.

But let's listen to what he said, because, obviously, he knows his religion is going to come up on the campaign trail.

BAY BUCHANAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Sure.

LEMON: Then we will talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe in God, and I believe that every person in this great country, and every person on this great planet is a child of God. I believe that we're all sisters and brothers. I believe that the family is the foundation of America and that it needs to be protected and strengthened. I believe in the sanctity of human life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: It sounds like he is trying to clear everything up here. And I want to ask you again, why Dearborn, Michigan, and not Massachusetts? And, two, is -- does he know that his religion is going to play into this?

BUCHANAN: On the first point, clearly, it was wise to go to Michigan. That is his family roots. His father was, of course, governor there.

And Michigan is a -- is a major, key state, very likely, in our primary -- we're not certain about that, but, during the primary, it may be moved up and be a key state -- but, even more importantly, in the general election. So, he brings something to the table, as -- as a Republican nominee, that he could possibly carry a key state like Michigan.

Massachusetts, the Republican nominee will never carry. So, it doesn't offer us anything. And to tie yourself around Massachusetts is a suggestion that you're a probably a little too liberal for most Republicans. And, so, it was a wise choice to go to Michigan.

LEMON: All right. And the religion part, because, obviously, he is saying: You know...

BUCHANAN: Yes.

LEMON: ... I believe in the sanctity of life. And that is a -- that is very pointed and I think calculated, because, at first, he was -- he was not against abortion, but he agreed with abortion. And, then, now he is saying that he is against it, recently changing that.

And there are some people who are saying that he is sort of flip- flopping on that issue. So, is this part of his speech pointed to those who may be...

BUCHANAN: It was...

LEMON: ... thinking he has -- he flip-flopped on abortion?

BUCHANAN: Don, there was two parts to that, what -- what we just heard. The first part was where he -- he did acknowledge he believes in God and what it means to him in his own life.

The purpose for that is, there is some people who do not believe that being Mormon is Christian. And, so, he was establishing, once again, that his beliefs are very much founded in those beliefs that our founding fathers had, the values and principles. So, that was to put that at rest.

And, then, the second point he made was the sanctity of life. That's to -- that's a message right to the pro-life community, the Christian community...

LEMON: Mm-hmm.

BUCHANAN: ... which is very dominant in the Republican primary process.

And he has flipped. There is no question he has -- he has had this conversion. And, because that conversion occurred on the road to Des Moines, Iowa...

(LAUGHTER)

BUCHANAN: ... we have some suspicion about the sincerity of it.

LEMON: Yes.

BUCHANAN: The words he uses in that speech were very firm. However, in other times, he has used language that shows that he is a very firmly committed pro-choicer.

We need to know if, indeed, that conversion is a sincere one.

LEMON: Yes. And reports say that he made this change, he changed his mind about abortion during a luncheon. This is what he said a short while ago at a luncheon last fall, I believe.

He said he changed his mind about the debate over embryonic stem cell research when he recounted a discussion about stem cells experts from Harvard in which he was offended by the casual, clinical way in which they spoke about the destruction of the fetuses.

So, that is when he says he changed about how he felt about abortion.

BUCHANAN: Exactly.

And, Don, the words he uses there, to a pro-lifer, raises more questions than give us answers.

LEMON: Right.

BUCHANAN: He is talking in the language of a pro-choicer when he tells us why he is now pro-life. That makes us somewhat unsettled.

LEMON: All right, really quickly, let's talk about his chances.

In a recent poll among Republicans, 32 percent of people said -- supported Giuliani, 26 percent McCain. And then he came in, you know, fourth, behind Gingrich, who, as we know now, may not even be running.

So -- and then there's a "Newsweek" poll from December of 2006, said: What if your party nominated a Mormon for president? Would you vote for that person if he or she were qualified for the job? Sixty- six percent of people said yes. Twenty-five said no. Nine percent said they don't know. In that same poll: Do you think America is ready to elect a Mormon president or not? Thirty-four percent said yes. Forty-eight percent said no. Don't know, 18 percent.

This question of Mormon and religion is going to be as big in this race as it is for Obama and race.

BUCHANAN: It could well be.

The -- the key here is how -- how he presents it, how he presents himself, when he gets to know people a little bit better. I don't -- you know, I -- when you ask somebody a Mormon, half the people don't even know what you're talking about. They have this kind of a -- a confused idea of what maybe Mormons really believe, and maybe distorted view.

Once he establishes who he is, what he believes, his commitment to his family, the strength of those religious beliefs, and -- and the role it's played, the standards he has lived his life by, these are things that will send a message to Americans that Mormons are very much mainstream Christians, and that they are extremely high standards that they have imposed on themselves that would do great credit to an individual who were president.

LEMON: Yes. And you know what? He actually makes light of it. You know, he does...

BUCHANAN: Oh, sure.

LEMON: ... have a sense of humor. And he said: You know, I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, and a woman, and a woman, and a woman. And I'm quoting him.

BUCHANAN: Yes.

LEMON: So, he sort of jokes about it, just to show that he has a sense of humor.

BUCHANAN: There's no question. His key is that he is going to have to deal with born-again Christians, some of whom -- not all, but some of whom do have an anti-Mormon bias and -- and are very, very skeptical -- skeptical about Mormons themselves.

LEMON: Right.

BUCHANAN: They are in Iowa, but not as strongly in Iowa as they are in South Carolina. That will be his biggest burden.

LEMON: Bay Buchanan, expert on everything, including being a Mormon...

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: ... thank you so much joining us today.

BUCHANAN: Glad to be with you, Don. LEMON: All right.

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead: a change of heart over a terrible incident in Iraq. One U.S. Marine changes his plea in the death of an Iraqi civilian. It's a CNN exclusive, straight ahead from the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, a new program by one of the nation's largest banks has no ad campaign, but it has plenty of word of mouth. Proponents say the program meets the need of an untapped group of potential customers. Critics say it caters to illegal immigrants.

Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange with all the details.

Hey, Suz (ph).

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.

Well, Bank of America is offering credit cards to current customers in the Los Angeles area, even if they don't have a Social Security card. All that is needed some something called an ITIN card. This government-issued card is intended for legal immigrants who don't have Social Security numbers.

But many illegal immigrants use these I.D. cards as well. The program is being rolled out in L.A., which is home to a huge concentration of illegal immigrants. And it could go national later this year -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Tell me a little bit more about what the critics are saying.

LISOVICZ: Well, you're going to hear a lot more. And you're going to hear a lot more on our air, undoubtedly.

One critic quoted in today's "Wall Street Journal" says bank of America is actually aiding and abetting people who broke the law. BofA has a different take. The bank says it is following all U.S. Patriot Act procedures, and adds that this is not an immigration issue. It's about helping people learn and establish a good credit history.

Keep in mind that, in recent years, several banks have been offering checking accounts and even mortgages to undocumented immigrants. But these immigrants have had a tough time in getting major credit cards, making it difficult for them to develop a credit history and expand their purchasing power.

As we said, this story is just beginning to unfold. Shares of Bank of America are up more than 1 percent. And the Dow is getting a nice boost today from reports that Alcoa may be the subject of a takeover. Right now, the blue chips are off their highs, but still up quite nicely, up 95 points, I will say, or three-quarters-of-a- percent. The Nasdaq composite is up five points, or a fifth-of-1- percent.

And that is the latest from Wall Street. I will be back in 30 minutes for the closing bell.

You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We have Betty Nguyen in our satellite center monitoring some feeds for us.

You have got some breaking details on weather news, Betty.

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Here's a weather question of utmost concern to people under 18: how much snow does it take to get a snow day? Depends on where you live, of course. Here in Atlanta half an inch could do it. In Redfield, New York, where 141 inches have fallen this month, schools are open and buses are rolling, though they were closed most of last week.

CNN's Gary Tuchman reports life goes on, even under 12 feet of snow.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): No town in the U.S. has gotten more snow this month than Redfield, New York. The town looks like it's been gobbled up; 141 inches have fallen since February 3, one of the largest snowfalls from one system in New York state's recorded weather history.

CAROL YERDON, RESIDENT OF REDFIELD, NEW YORK: I will tell where you I used to get my mail. And this would be my mailbox under here.

TUCHMAN: Carol Yerdon lives in Redfield with her husband and son.

YERDON: This is our only entrance at the moment.

TUCHMAN: The front entrance and the top floor of the house have disappeared under feet of snow. There was concern the roof could collapse.

YERDON: Absolutely, we measured exactly 60 inches of snow on the roof. So, it was time to shovel.

TUCHMAN: Incredible amounts of snow have been measured throughout New York State's upper tier, east of Lake Ontario, in towns like Mexico, New York.

TERRY GRIMSHAW, MAYOR OF MEXICO, NEW YORK: We had a storm in '66, but that was a three-day storm. This has gone on for a week.

TUCHMAN: But Redfield gets the prize for the most snow. Despite that, school was open today. You would not see that if another town in this state, New York City, got 146 inches of snow. Even though they are used to huge amounts here, this one is inspiring wonder.

YERDON: Usually, we don't go too far from home, I can say that, because, once you do get cleared out, if there's another bout coming, you are liable to not be able to get back in.

TUCHMAN: Inside the Yerdons' home, it is very dark, because snow blocks the windows. But the heat is plentiful. And so are the good spirits, as the family counts down the days to spring.

YERDON: You know, we'll all be anxious for spring. There's no doubt there. But it might be about May before we see green grass.

TUCHMAN (on camera): It is five below zero Fahrenheit, but the wind and the walls of snow make it feel colder. I want to thank the Yerdon family for letting me up to their roof to do this demonstration, something you shouldn't try at home unless you too have 141 inches of snow. But you can see, I can walk from the roof 17 feet down safely all the way to the ground. And this gives you an idea of just how much snow is here.

No big problems in this area. They're used to having a lot of snow. What they have to be careful about is making sure the snow doesn't block vents into the house, so you don't have gas problems inside the house or you don't lose your heat.

And also, they don't know what to do with all this snow. There's not enough places to put it, so it just piles up. The fact is, in addition to this record, they may set a yearly record. Ten years ago, they had 420 inches of snow in this town. Now they're up to 287 and there's a lot more snow on the way this week. This is Gary Tuchman, CNN in Redfield, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Just unbelievable.

Guilty one minute, just following orders the next. A U.S. Marine accused of murdering an unarmed Iraqi civilian turned his own court- martial upside down by changing his plea.

Jason Carroll joins us now with details on this developing case from New York -- Jason.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And it is an interesting one, Don. Trent Thomas changed his initial guilty plea to not guilty because after more thought, he decided he wanted to fight the charges. Because of that, he now goes back to square one and again faces charges of premeditated murder, kidnapping and making false statements in the killing of an Iraqi civilian.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL (voice-over): It's still hard to say what happened that one terrible moment in Iraq. Hard to understand why a devout Christian is now forced to make this distinction.

(on camera) Which one are you?

TRENT THOMAS, CHARGED WITH MURDERING IRAQI: I'm a Marine. I'm not a hero. I'm not a murder. I'm a Marine. I will leave it at that. I'm a Marine.

CARROLL (voice-over): Trent Thomas had long dreamed of being a Marine. He grew up in East Saint Louis amid drugs and desperation. Here, violent crime is seven times the national average. But Thomas went his own way, attended church, won these awards at Christian camp. Bible college was his way out of East Saint Louis.

THOMAS: I was either at school or at work or at church. So there was really no time in between.

CARROLL: Soon Thomas joined the Marines. He would serve three tours in Iraq. During his second was shot in a firefight as he recovered a fellow Marine's body. He received a Purple Heart for his heroism.

But last April during his final tour, Thomas came face-to-face with that terrible moment. His squad was searching for an insurgent in Hamdaniya, northwest of Baghdad.

Details of what happened next come from Thomas and other Marines during the court-martial testimony that would follow. They couldn't find the insurgent at his house, and furious that yet another insurgent seemed to be getting away, they went next door.

There they found Hashim Ibrahim Awad, who was not an insurgent but a 52-year-old father of 11. Thomas and other Marines testified that they bound the Iraqi man's hands and feet. Then Thomas says, he shot Awad.

(on camera) How many times did you fire at him?

THOMAS: Maybe five or six. Seven, eight, somewhere in there. I think maybe about eight altogether.

CARROLL (voice-over): The question of Thomas' defense ultimately would come down to this: what could have driven him to abandon his judgment and his faith and to commit such a heinous crime? Thomas says he hoped killing Awad would send a message.

THOMAS: I look at the situation as, maybe we just set an example. Maybe these people are putting IEDs on the road...

CARROLL (on camera): A good example or a bad example?

THOMAS: Maybe we set an example for any future terrorist that are going to put an IED on this road.

CARROLL (voice-over): Eventually Thomas' eight-member squad was charged with offenses ranging from kidnapping to murder. At first, Thomas pleaded guilty to second degree murder, kidnapping and making false statements.

Thomas told us relentless battle turned him into a different person, not the Christian his family knows, but rather a frustrated soldier who saw violence and blood every day, one who saw his best friend die in battle.

THOMAS: You heard of the battered wives syndrome. The wife comes home. Her husband beats her every day. Beats her every day. And one day she says, "I can't take it anymore," and she shoots him. Now is that justified?

Put Marines in the same situation. They're getting shot at. They're getting blown up every day. And they get mad, and they go out and do something. Is it justified?

CARROLL: And yet even as he provides that explanation, he says it's not enough for him.

THOMAS: At the time I felt that I was doing what I had to do, and now that I'm back here, I know that it was wrong what we did. And for that, I'm truly sorry.

CARROLL (on camera): Were you ordered to do what you did?

THOMAS: I really can't say.

CARROLL (voice-over): Thomas' commanding officer is also charged with murder. His attorney didn't return our calls.

Thomas' family says they believe the truth is he was following orders.

LINDA THOMAS, MOTHER OF ACCUSED MARINE: My son is not a murderer. My son was ordered to do whatever he did.

CARROLL: The day after these interviews, Thomas changed his guilty plea to not guilty, his attorney saying he killed an innocent man that day because he was ordered to do it.

THOMAS: I think your leadership plays a huge factor in what you do. That's all I can say.

CARROLL (on camera): But you understand, I think, some would argue, if you're going after someone who is identified as a bad guy, then it's justified. But if it's somebody who's just a bystander, then it's not justified.

THOMAS: A lot of people would argue that. But until you're put in the situation where everyone -- you take a face off everyone through so many bad circumstances...

CARROLL: And when you say take a face off, that means what?

THOMAS: You start -- you stop looking at people as people.

CARROLL (voice-over): What Thomas may ultimately do is take a closer look at the person he is behind the Marine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Very interesting story, Jason. Do you think Corporal Thomas has come to terms with what he had to do or what he did?

CARROLL: You know, after talking to him for such a long time, Don, I'm not so quite sure. I know that he definitely feels sorry for what he has done. But in terms of whether or not emotionally he has come to terms with everything that he has seen over in Iraq, including, obviously, his best friend being killed, I'm not quite so sure he has come to terms with that just yet. That could be years before he's able to come to terms with that.

LEMON: Yes, and when people join the armed forces, especially the Marines, they're very passionate about it. How do you think he feels now about going through this court-martial?

CARROLL: It's something that he definitely wants to do. It's something that he wants to fight at this point. In terms of how he feels about the Marines, it's something he's always dreamed of doing. In fact, he told me it was one of the proudest moments in his life, joining the Marines. It's something that he loved being, something that if given the chance, he would like to return to. He also said, though, that if he was given the chance, he would not return to Iraq.

LEMON: Jason Carroll, great report. Thank you so much for that.

CARROLL: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: It's one of the biggest jobs in the U.S. military and there's no time for on-the-job training. Coming up, my interview with Admiral William Fallon, the new man in charge at U.S. Central Command.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: It's a high stakes, high pressure job that only begins with the war in Iraq. Commanding CentCom, the U.S. Central Command, is the new responsibility of Admiral William Fallen, who is moving over from U.S. Pacific Command in Hawaii.

CentCom encompasses Iraq and 26 other countries in Asia, the Middle East and Africa. Admiral Fallon joined us in the NEWSROOM earlier today. Here's part of our exclusive interview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: It doesn't start with just the fact that you were the former head of Pacific Command, you had to engage in diplomatic relations with China, Indonesia, to a certain extent North Korea. Not a walk in the park by any means. Now you're faced with Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran. How are you going to deal with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad? ADM. WILLIAM FALLON, HEAD, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: Well, Kyra, lots of challenges, but lots of opportunities. There's certainly many challenges, many conflicts, and lots of things to do, but fundamentally, this is a region of vital importance to the United States and the world. There are many things that we're working on, and lots of things that we have to get cracking on to move this place in a positive direction. But I'm very, very confident, given the caliber of folk we have working for us, both in uniform and in diplomatic circles, and looking forward to taking on this challenge.

It seems that there's a lot of evidence that there are certainly elements in Iran that have been supporting the unrest and instability in Iraq, and that's not been helpful. As I approach this task, it seems that I not only need to help support our commanders in the field, particularly General Petraeus, who has just taken over in Iraq, and General McNeill in Afghanistan, but to work the region. Because it seems that the instability, insecurity, the chaos, is not in anybody's best interest. And so I want to take this on in a comprehensive approach. I want to look across the region and beyond the region actually to see who can play a role in helping us to get a better condition in Iraq and Afghanistan, and to move this area forward.

PHILLIPS: I'm listening to the diplomatic talk, and I know you have been very progressive and have established incredible relations, specifically with China and other parts of the region. But we're talking about a very volatile region now, Iraq, Afghanistan, soldiers, men and women dying every day, and Iran being a tremendous factor in contributing to the violence. We're seeing the weapons now. It's on the front burner. And I have to ask you, in any way, shape or form, are you thinking about Iran and attacking Iran?

FALLON: I'm not thinking about attacking Iran at all. What I'm thinking about is working in this region to take care of business. We have some very significant priorities.

Iraq, clearly, the No. 1 priority. We have an ongoing challenge here. We have men and women that are in combat. And fighting these insurgents and other people every day, this is the top priority.

We have another action ongoing in Afghanistan. Been there for several years. It's a different situation. Got a lot of help from NATO and others to work this problem.

Iran is certainly in the middle of this. And we've got to deal with Iran. But what we would really like to do is have Iran be contributing to the outcome in a positive manner in this region. And that's the -- that's the focal point of Iran.

PHILLIPS: Admiral, what are you going to do about these helicopters that are getting shot down and the loss of life of U.S. soldiers? How are you going to try and prevent that?

FALLON: Well, Kyra, General Petraeus -- Dave Petraeus has just taken over command of the multi-national forces in Iraq this past Saturday. And he's got the primary responsibility for operations inside that country. I look forward to working with Dave. He's a very, very smart guy. He's got tremendous experience, two years on the ground already in Iraq. He has spent the last year and a half running the Army Staff College and think tanks out of Leavenworth. And so I expect that he is going to bring lots of -- lots of brain power and lots of experience to this challenge.

It seems to me that -- and I haven't seen the detail of what -- exactly what's gone on with each of these incidents. But I suspect that what's happening here is that this enemy, very agile, very astute, has been watching us and looking to try to exploit any weaknesses or any -- any way in which they can try to gain leverage. And so I'm sure that General Petraeus and General Ordierno and the rest of the forces over there in Iraq are going to be paying very close attention to how they operate -- how we operate day to day to try to minimize our exposure, at the same time, of course, trying to get this new mission under way to try and provide security and stability inside of Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Fallon was confirmed just last week, the first admiral to get that job.

LEMON: The closing bell and a wrap of all of the action on Wall Street straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Let's say we check in with CNN's Wolf Blitzer.

PHILLIPS: He's standing by in "THE SIT ROOM" to tell us what's coming up at the top of the hour.

Hey, Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, guys.

Thanks very much.

An historic and divisive debate, it's happening right now in the House of Representatives over a resolution opposing more U.S. troops for Iraq. We'll talk about it with it with Indiana Republican Congressman Mike Pence. He's backing President Bush.

Also, the White House denies it's laying the groundwork for a war with Iran. But critics don't buy it. We'll be joined by one of them, Democratic Senator and presidential candidate Chris Dodd of Connecticut.

Plus, a major announcement at the trial of Lewis "Scooter" Libby. Will the defendant or his old boss Vice President Dick Cheney actually take the stand? We now know the answer.

All that coming up, guys, right here in the "SITUATION ROOM".

LEMON: All right. Can't wait for that. Thanks, Wolf.

PHILLIPS: Closing bell about to ring on Wall Street.

LEMON: Let's check in with Susan Lisovicz for our final check of Wall Street.

(MARKET REPORT)

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Now it's time for the "SITUATION ROOM" and Wolf.

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