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Nancy Grace
Reports Anna Nicole had 105 Fever Before her Death
Aired February 13, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news, the Anna Nicole Smith emergency 911 tape just released, that call after covergirl Anna Nicole Smith found unresponsive in a Florida hotel room.
And tonight, the medical examiner who performed the covergirl`s autopsy takes extraordinary action to embalm. As we go to air, Smith`s body under tight security, still waiting at the morgue. There`s a dispute over who will claim the body and when. Listen, the morgue cannot hold a body unembalmed indefinitely.
And tonight, another clue as to the cause of death, reports that Smith running 105-degree fever, being iced down by a private nurse just before the 911 call. And who`s responsible for that break-in in her Bahama mansion? Exactly what was taken and why? Will there be legal consequences? Where is Lady Justice tonight?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, BROWARD COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: At this time, we do not make a determination for the cause and the manner of death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators pore over the remains of Anna Nicole Smith, trying to unravel the mystery of her death.
911 OPERATOR: Hollywood Fire Rescue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. This is Seminole Police. If you can please respond to the Hard Rock, room 607?
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s going to be in reference to a white female who is -- what is she, not responsive?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s not breathing and she`s not responsive. She`s actually Anna Nicole Smith. If you guys can please...
911 OPERATOR: Oh, OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK?
911 OPERATOR: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As attorneys, police and medical examiners -- and most of all, TV news channels -- swarm all over the place, poring over every detail of her death, many mysteries remain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. It ain`t over yet. In fact, the legal consequences go on after the death of Anna Nicole Smith, tonight the medical examiner there in Broward County taking an extraordinary action -- I`ve never heard of a medical examiner doing this before -- actually asking to embalm a body.
Joining us right now, that medical examiner. He is the chief medical examiner there in Broward County. He and a team of doctors performed the autopsy that lasted over six hours on the covergirl Anna Nicole Smith. Dr. Perper, thank you for being with us.
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, BROWARD COUNTY CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: You`re welcome.
GRACE: Doctor, I`ve handled a lot of homicide cases. I`ve never seen the medical examiner have to petition or ask to perform the embalming. Have you ever done that before?
PERPER: No, but I don`t think that I asked for this in this particular case. What I did in this particular case, that I sent an affidavit at the request of one of the attorney indicating that the death occurred five days ago and holding the body indefinitely would result in damage to the body. It would be difficult to embalm the body, and obviously, the esthetic result would be much worse.
So as a matter of fact, we received information that tomorrow, the California judge is going to call me and verify whether it`s necessary to hold the body for DNA testing and (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Dr. Perper, OK, let me get this straight. You wrote out an affidavit, a sworn affidavit, stating that if much more time passes, it`s going to be very difficult, if not impossible, to embalm the body of Anna Nicole Smith?
PERPER: Correct.
GRACE: OK. So what are you hoping to achieve from filing this affidavit?
PERPER: Well, this affidavit was filed at the request of the attorney for Mr. Stern, who asked for an expedited -- an emergency court order to release the body to him. And he asked me if I would write such an affidavit to document that, indeed, the body should be released promptly. And I did so. In the -- later on during the day, the attorney for the mother of Nicole claimed the body, as well. And I explained to both that they will need a court order directing me to who is the legal next of kin, and I must release the body.
GRACE: Dr. Perper, when did Virgie Arthur make the claim for the body?
PERPER: Sometimes in mid-morning.
GRACE: Today?
PERPER: Today.
GRACE: OK. So you`ve got Stern lawyers, who asked you to write up a truthful affidavit, which -- you know, let`s talk about that for a moment before we get into the legalities of it. As the days pass, why will it become almost impossible to adequately embalm this body?
PERPER: I didn`t say that. The body at this time is under refrigeration.
GRACE: Right.
PERPER: When you leave a body, even in a refrigeration condition, the more time elapses since the death, there are going to be destructed tissue in the body. The body just breaks out. The tissue are breaking up. So if you want to preserve the body in the best shape for showing, then you need to embalm it. The embalming preserves the body and permits viewing of the body, and sometimes family says that they would like to have that.
GRACE: Oh, I see. So this would allow the actual viewing of the body?
PERPER: Correct.
GRACE: OK. Thank you, Dr. Perper. I`m just a trial lawyer, so thank you for helping me through that. Dr. Perper -- with us tonight is Dr. Joshua Perper, who has become quite a legend over many years as the chief medical examiner there in Broward County. He performed, along with a team, the autopsy on Anna Nicole Smith.
Dr. Perper, how long is it possible to wait after death, post-mortem, to embalm a body and still embalm the body?
PERPER: Well, it`s difficult to say because human bodies are not machines. But probably within two weeks would be an optimal period to wait. And if the body starts to be more than two weeks under refrigeration, the decomposition changes are going to be more significant.
GRACE: Sir, would you actually -- would you perform the embalming, or would the body be sent to a funeral home for that?
PERPER: No, probably what I`m going to offer to the family, as a service, is to have the embalming done in our office by the funeral director of choice. And the reason is that this would minimize additional hype from the media and would permit the family, if they want to transport the body to an airport, to be transported under more quiet conditions.
GRACE: Dr. Perper, you`re absolutely correct. That`s an extraordinary move, and kind on your part, to have the body embalmed there because, frankly, Dr. Perper, I know you have arranged for tight security there on the remains of Anna Nicole Smith at the medical examiner`s office, which I`m sure the family is grateful for. But to take that body, take it to a funeral home, then -- that`s a lot of movement on a body under such tight media scrutiny.
When do you think you`ll have an answer to that, Dr. Perper?
PERPER: Well, at this time, we are waiting for a court order directing us to release the body. Once the body is going to be released, we`re going to approach the party who receives the approval of the court, and ask them if they want to take advantage of our offer.
GRACE: Dr. Perper, I wanted to ask you something about the fact that there was blood in her stomach and no pills in her stomach. I`m trying to figure out, if she had taken a quantity of pills, how long would that take to metabolize, so that there would be no sign of it in her stomach?
PERPER: Well, when the pills disappear from the stomach, they are not metabolized from the body, they are just absorbed into the body system. Usually, it depends on the amount of pills. It depends on the amount of fluid in which the pills are present.
But in this particular case, you look very carefully, there was a very small amount of blood in the stomach, which we relate to terminal shock, which occurred shortly before death. There were no pills in the intestine which are coming out of the stomach. But this doesn`t exclude the possibility that we are going to find some drugs or medication or toxic substances in the blood. The question is going to be, What`s the significance?
GRACE: Dr. Perper, also, we have learned in the last few hours that, apparently, Anna Nicole Smith had been running a fever around 105 degrees, which I think is pretty high for an adult, and that the private nurse had actually been icing her body down before she died. Was there any sign of that? And what could that mean, Dr. Perper?
PERPER: Well, if you remember, I said that she had high fever. And indeed, it reached 105. Well, what it means is that, most likely, it was an infection, though there are other possibilities. An infection usually leaves some marks or signs in the body, but not always. And sometimes there are signs of infection which we cannot see with the naked eye and we require microscopic examination. So we took bacterial culture, which are going to help us in determining whether there was such an infection, and we are going to look at the tissue to determine whether this occurred.
GRACE: With me is an esteemed medical examiner, Dr. Joshua Perper. He is the chief medical examiner in Florida, Broward County.
Doctor, how can you look at a body and tell that she had been running a high fever?
PERPER: I cannot tell that because the fever after death in the vast majority of cases goes down. But I don`t look at the fever, I look at the causes of the fever. The causes of the fever can be an infection or it can be other causes, and I have to substantiate them by examination and testing.
GRACE: Right. OK. And Dr. Perper, regarding the blood in the stomach, why do you get blood in your stomach when your body goes into terminal shock?
PERPER: Because when you get into terminal shock, there are changes in the permeability of the tissue, in the permeability of the lining of the stomach. There is a great deal of congestion in some places, so blood is just coming out through the lining of the stomach into the actual space.
GRACE: Dr. Perper, I know that we are waiting on a toxicology report, which could take some time. But what about a urinalysis? Is that done as part of the autopsy?
PERPER: Yes. And let me tell you that, you know, as we go along with our testing, we always find additional things, but we made a decision that we are not going to make a premature release of the findings. So at this time, I think there`s no way of distinguishing between the three possibilities, and there`s a strong possibility that the death might be due just to natural disease. We just have to be able to substantiate that and to show that there were no drugs or medication which contributed significantly to the death.
GRACE: So does that mean you`re not releasing what the urinalysis said?
PERPER: I`m not releasing anything until I have everything in place and we can put the puzzle together.
GRACE: OK. Understood, that you`re waiting for the full toxicology report.
Let`s go out to the lines. Felicia in California. Hi, Felicia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was wondering if there might have been any residual effects from Trimspa. I know she was starting a new, experimental Trimspa.
GRACE: OK. Let`s go out to Dr. Perper on that. Dr. Perper, I know a lot of diet pills have had problems, serious problems, such as the ephedra problem. I don`t think Trimspa had any ephedra in it. In fact, I don`t think it did. But is there any possibility her death was linked to her diet medication?
PERPER: There`s always such -- there are a variety of possibilities. The question, to what extent those possibilities are real. And we are going to check for various medications, including weight-reducing medications. But again, if there are other causes which are predominantly and dramatically caused the death, then the likelihood of a contribution by the weight-reducing medication are fairly low.
And if you remember, I was involved in a case in which ephedrine was given over the counter, and we believed that this contributed to the death. And as a result of that, the Senate passed a law which forbids selling over-the-counter ephedrine medications.
GRACE: Yes, I am very aware of that case in which you participated. Dr. Perper, when you perform an autopsy, I know that the body parts are actually weighed and you do an extensive search. And I`m just wondering what your search of her heart entailed.
PERPER: Well, the search of the heart entails the examination of the size of the heart and the weight of the heart, which were both normal in this case. Then the arteries of the heart are examined, and they were again completely normal. There was some minor discoloration in the muscle of the heart, which we`ll have to verify microscopically, whether it`s of significance or not. We`ll have also the heart examined by a cardiovascular pathologist, a pathologist who specialize in that.
So I do not believe that the cause of death, we are going to find it in the heart. And Again, as I said before, it was very important for us to interview the doctor who took care of her, and she provided us with very significant information which permitted us to focus on some very important findings, which we`ll disclose at the proper time.
GRACE: You know, I found that very interesting Dr. Perper, that a California doctor, which I don`t believe was her regular doctor but -- a California doctor flew all the way from California to Florida to take a look at flu-like symptoms. Is that the doctor you`re referring to?
PERPER: Yes. But you have to understand that this was not her regular treating physician. My understanding was that it was a very close friend who was also a physician and came in order to help as much as she could.
GRACE: Today, the 911 call was released. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Hollywood Fire Rescue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. This is Seminole Police. If you can please respond to the Hard Rock, room 607?
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s going to be in reference to a white female who is -- what is she, not responsive?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s not breathing and she`s not responsive. She`s actually Anna Nicole Smith. If you guys can please...
911 OPERATOR: Oh, OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK?
911 OPERATOR: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Hollywood Fire Rescue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. This is Seminole Police. If you can please respond to the Hard Rock, room 607?
911 OPERATOR: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s going to be in reference to a white female who is -- what is she, not responsive?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s not breathing and she`s not responsive. She`s actually Anna Nicole Smith. If you guys can please...
911 OPERATOR: Oh, OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK?
911 OPERATOR: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: I want to know tonight, where`s the rest of that 911 call? Why hasn`t it been released? Why was CPR stopped? Who decided to stop CPR? And would it have made any difference?
Joining us tonight on another matter is the former bodyguard of Anna Nicole Smith, Alex Denk. Along with him is his lawyer. Let me find -- do I have them hooked up? Hi, guys.
CYRUS NOWNEJAD, DENK`S ATTORNEY: How are you?
ALEXANDER DENK, SMITH`S FORMER BODYGUARD: Hello.
GRACE: Thank you for being with us. Do I have Cyrus Nownejad with us, as well?
NOWNEJAD: Nownejad. Yes. How are you?
GRACE: Welcome, gentlemen. Thank you for being with us. First to you, Alex. Question. I know you worked for Anna Nicole Smith for quite a while, correct?
DENK: Yes. Correct. Thank you for having me on the show.
GRACE: You`re welcome. When did you first learn she had passed away?
DENK: I found out on Thursday morning, when one of my friends called me and told me the sad news.
GRACE: Now, when did you first meet Anna Nicole Smith?
DENK: We met first time when I was auditioning for her show as a chef on "The Anna Nicole Smith Show." That`s how we met first time in 2002.
GRACE: So you`re kind of a chef-slash-bodyguard.
DENK: Slash trainer.
GRACE: Slash trainer? Double slash.
DENK: Triple slash.
GRACE: Alex, you have stated that you could be the father of 5-month- old Dannielynn, is that true?
NOWNEJAD: You know, I think what my client has stated in a previous interview is that he thought it was possible, and I think the tabloids have misinterpreted that and twisted it a bit.
GRACE: OK, let me rephrase my question. Thank you, counsel.
NOWNEJAD: Sure.
GRACE: Mr. Denk, is it true that you have stated you think you might be the father of Dannielynn?
DENK: I said everything is possible.
GRACE: OK. Question. Why are you just stating that now, after her death? I mean, we`re five months into the child`s life. Wouldn`t you want to raise the child, pay child support, that kind of thing?
NOWNEJAD: I think it`s the first time anybody`s really asked him.
DENK: I was -- the first five years, I never spoke to any media. I never spoke to anybody about Anna and I because we had a very private, intimate relationship. And I`m very loyal to all my clients in my business I`m doing in my field. So when people ask me why you come out forward right now, because I feel like it`s private and everybody deserves his privacy, especially when you`re a celebrity.
GRACE: Well, my question is, the baby has been -- was born in September. Did you not want to help raise the baby or have time with the baby or help support the baby?
DENK: That`s a very good question. Thank you for asking that. You know, Anna and I, we talked a lot, and we always talked about the name she`s going to give the baby. And she asked me questions, Could you help me to raise the baby? And I said -- I looked at her, which I smiled and then I hugged her. So we left it at that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PERPER: We are going to release the body to whoever has the legal right, whoever is the legal next of kin. And we`ll require a court order because there might be a conflict. At this time, the only person who requested the body for purposes of burial was Mr. Stern and no one else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. That`s the medical examiner speaking out. Right now, two people lined up trying to claim the remains of Anna Nicole Smith, still sitting at the morgue -- her mother, Vergie Arthur, and her lawyer-slash-boyfriend, Howard K. Stern.
Also with us tonight, the former bodyguard and chef for Anna Nicole Smith, Alex Denk. Also with him, Cyrus Nownejad. Both of you, thank you for being with us. To you, Alex. Were there photos that you had that you discussed with the show tonight, before the show?
DENK: Yes, there was photos of Anna and myself when we had good times and we laughed together, and Christmas and so many more great moments, as you can see. It was her birthday, for example, and I bought her a nice birthday cake, a "Hello Kitty" birthday cake. And she was so excited and happy. And I wrote down "Happy Birthday"...
GRACE: I can see that you two are very happy. To your lawyer. Sir, were you trying to charge for the photos? Did you want money for photos of Anna Nicole Smith?
NOWNEJAD: We didn`t charge for these photos. We sent them out on the press. There`s no charge for those photos.
GRACE: So tonight, you did not bring up that you wanted money for each photo?
NOWNEJAD: We didn`t charge for those photos.
GRACE: Right. I know you didn`t charge for them, but you did ask for money, correct?
NOWNEJAD: We put in writing that we limit it to news purposes only. We made that clear.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that there are some people that are getting together that are trying to create a kind of conspiracy that basically is portraying Howard to be the bad guy or the controller of the situation. And that`s not the case. Anna Nicole controlled what Anna Nicole did. He did not feed her pills; he did not get her medication. Anna Nicole got her own medication, and she did what she wanted to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. Legal battle brewing at the medical examiner`s office there in Florida. Now the mother of Anna Nicole Smith insists she has the right to the body. Her lawyer/boyfriend, Howard K. Stern, says the same thing.
In the limbo, Dr. Joshua Perper, who has now filled out a sworn affidavit stating that the body will disintegrate and could disallow the embalming of Anna Nicole Smith. It`s amazing. You think a legal battle over an embalming? But that is what is happening down in Florida.
Let`s go down to Florida. Standing by from "Extra," correspondent Carlos Diaz. Carlos, explain.
CARLOS DIAZ, "EXTRA" CORRESPONDENT: Well, you praised Dr. Perper earlier about him wanting to get rid of the body, but I think the main point that he made was the media frenzy. I admire Dr. Perper. I`ve talked to him several times, but I honestly believe the reason he wants to get rid of the body is because he`s sick of us. You know, he`s tired of this media frenzy. He wants that body out of there.
GRACE: Carlos Diaz, I believe he can speak for himself.
DIAZ: Go ahead.
GRACE: And the reality is, he clearly explained that a body will begin to disintegrate. That`s the law of nature.
DIAZ: I understand this, but a big factor is the fact that there is a media frenzy going on around this body. And he stated today, earlier today in an interview with us, that basically, if someone comes with a court order, he`ll release the body before February 20th, before the courts in California said so. He sounded very eager to do that.
Now, I respect Dr. Perper, but let`s be realistic here. He`s not used to this media frenzy surrounding this. His life becomes a heck of a lot easier.
GRACE: Can I ask you something?
DIAZ: Yes, please.
GRACE: Can I ask you something? What does that have to do with anything?
DIAZ: What I`m saying is, you`re saying that he`s an amazing person for wanting to care for this body, but there is ulterior motives there.
GRACE: What? That he`s tired of the media? Do you think he gives a flying fig about what you or I have to say about medicine? No, he doesn`t care about us.
DIAZ: Exactly. Exactly. So that`s why he wants the body out of there as soon as possible.
GRACE: OK. You know what? I was asking you about the facts, not your interpretation of what a renowned pathologist may think. But you know what? He doesn`t need me to speak for him.
Dr. Perper, let me go back to you. Joshua Perper with us. Why is it exactly that you filled out the affidavit?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, BROWARD COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: I felt that the family was justified, in this case, Mr. Stern`s attorney was justified in asking for an emergency release, because obviously he or the person who is going to be declared to be the legal relative would like perhaps to show the body. And, therefore, if you leave the body for a long period of time, the body`s going to deteriorate.
Let me just answer, I suppose, the accusations. Medical examiner, I used to deal with the media. We are not afraid of the media. We are not intimidated by the media. We cooperate with the media, because you represent millions of viewers or millions of readers. And we believe that the public has a right to know the truth and not to be exposed to unnecessary rumors.
So my only intention in this particular case is to make sure that we serve best the public and the family. And, therefore, it doesn`t bother us if the trucks of the TV are going to stay in front of my office for six months. That`s not going to bother us. We`re going to do our job anyway.
So this is the first time, by the way -- I`m for a very long time in my field, and I never heard those kind of statements. What I want to assure everyone, that the purpose of my activity and the goal of my office is not to do anything but to serve the public. And that`s what we do.
GRACE: Now, let me rephrase my question to you, Mr. Diaz. With us tonight from "Extra," correspondent Carlos Diaz. The question is about, who is now claiming the remains?
DIAZ: OK. The persons that are claiming the remains are both Howard K. Stern and Vergie, which is Anna Nicole`s mother. They`re both claiming the remains. And as I stated, of course, the doctor has said that he will release to whoever has a court order the remains as soon as possible.
GRACE: What can you tell me about an alleged hearing there in Florida tomorrow morning with Birkhead?
DIAZ: Well, now, Larry Birkhead has just filed two counts. His lawyer has talked to the Associated Press and said that Larry Birkhead has filed two counts in the court system here in Florida to make sure that the DNA testing is not a sham. Now, the...
GRACE: Wait, wait.
DIAZ: OK.
GRACE: The DNA testing a sham? You mean now people are suggesting that an esteemed, a renowned forensic pathologist is somehow baiting and switching Anna Nicole`s dead body`s tissue? Is that what I`m hearing?
DIAZ: That is basically what Larry Birkhead`s lawyer is saying, by...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: That`s a very creative use of one`s law degree. Very creative. So tell me again, let me try to get my arms around this legal concept. They`re claiming what?
DIAZ: She`s filed two motions -- Larry Birkhead`s lawyer has filed two motions in Florida. And one of them was saying that she wants to make sure that the DNA testing is not a sham, that everything`s on the up and up. Basically, they want to get their meat hooks into the legal actions and the legal proceedings going on down here in Miami in Hollywood and Florida.
GRACE: OK. Let`s bring in the lawyers. First of all, to you, Jean Casarez, explain.
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: All right. These issues are based in law, because a judge in California last week said, I don`t know if I have jurisdiction over a corpse, to allow an order to extract DNA from Anna Nicole Smith.
It appears as though Mr. Birkhead`s attorney is now going to the Florida courts. Obviously, there would be jurisdiction there, because that is where her body is. But we`ve also heard there is an emergency hearing tomorrow in Los Angeles where Stern`s lawyers are asking that the judge that wants to hold the body until February 20th goes back on that and allows the body to be released.
GRACE: Also with us tonight, Anna Nicole Smith`s best friend. Her name is Jackie Hatten. She is the godmother of Anna Nicole`s children. Ms. Hatten, thank you for being with us.
JACKIE HATTEN, BEST FRIEND OF ANNA NICOLE: Thank you for having me.
GRACE: And, first of all, before we ask you any questions, our sorrow to you about losing a friend. You guys have been friends for a very, very long time.
HATTEN: Yes, we have.
GRACE: And instead of having a chance to mourn, you`re out taking to the airwaves, trying to defend her and a lot of other decisions she made in her life. So thank you for being with us.
HATTEN: Thank you.
GRACE: What is the relationship -- what was the relationship between her and Stern? What`s that all about?
HATTEN: He was basically our gofer and her legal adviser.
GRACE: What do you mean?
HATTEN: You know, he would go and hold her bags, walk behind us, run errands for us, stuff like that.
GRACE: But she thought enough of him to have the commitment ceremony and jump off the side of the boat?
HATTEN: She was basically sedated, from what I understand, the entirety of the stay. And after Daniel`s passing -- and that was eight days later -- if she loved him so much, why didn`t she marry him for real? Obviously, if he could have married her, she would have.
GRACE: Jackie, why didn`t Anna Nicole Smith get along with her mom, Vergie?
HATTEN: It`s kind of a private situation. She confided in me, and I don`t think it`s really necessary to talk about. I`m sorry. But I do know she did reach out to her mother in her last days after Daniel passed. She called her mother and said, "Danny`s dead. Help." And then the phone was slammed down.
GRACE: I notice that Howard Stern has been around at the time of two people passing away, by use, allegedly, of drugs. I also know that some of the drugs in Anna Nicole`s room were prescribed to Stern. But there is no evidence whatsoever that there is any homicide that has gone down in either one of these cases.
HATTEN: Well, like the FBI told me, it`s called aggravated death, after accumulated effect of someone feeding or shoveling drugs to someone else, capitalizing on, you know, their problem or their addiction. At the end of the day, if you didn`t see them do it, that`s what it`s considered. And a lot of money`s at stake. Like Geraldo said, a lot of people have been killed for a lot less money.
GRACE: To you, James Neavitt -- this is Howard K. Stern`s lawyer joining us tonight -- response? And where is Mr. Stern and the baby?
JAMES NEAVITT, HOWARD K. STERN`S ATTORNEY: They`re in the Bahamas, Nancy.
GRACE: We`re taking a quick break. When we come back, along with us, Anna Nicole Smith`s best friend, and more regarding the break-in at her Bahamas mansion.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VERGIE ARTHUR, MOTHER OF ANNA NICOLE SMITH: ... you know I love you, always have. And be very careful about who you hang around with, because you may be next.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No matter what our differences may have been, you still have the tragic death of somebody very young, very attractive, off and on very successful. But more importantly, you have the death of a mother. And there is a baby that is left without their mother, and that`s always a tragedy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Every day since the death of Anna Nicole Smith, the legal problems and issues have only compounded, in death, as in life, Anna Nicole Smith. Out to Matt Meagher with "Inside Edition." He`s standing by tonight in Nassau at the Bahamas.
What`s happening there? Have we seen any sign of the baby, of Howard K. Stern? Has Vergie Arthur appeared again at the Bahamas mansion trying to see her granddaughter?
MATT MEAGHER, "INSIDE EDITION": We`ve not heard of her being back at the mansion. Supposedly this afternoon, she was in downtown Nassau shopping for a lawyer. She`s going to need representation here in the Bahamas, as well as in Florida and California, if she`s going to remain a factor in all of these lawsuits.
At the mansion, Mr. Stern`s own lawyer just said that both he and the baby are in the Bahamas. We presume they still mean at the Horizon mansion, but we have not spotted them.
GRACE: Do we know anymore about the Bahaman police interviewing Howard Stern?
MEAGHER: No, we don`t. There was an interesting development today. We tried to get a police report that documents the alleged theft and break- in at the Horizon house, where so many of Anna Nicole`s items and memorabilia things were stolen, pictures of the baby. That`s been sealed. We haven`t been allowed to get that.
Mr. Stern did issue a release, though, today, saying, condemning whoever did it, implying that Ben Thompson`s family or Ben Thompson himself was behind it. Ben Thompson is the man who`s fighting Anna Nicole`s estate and Mr. Stern for the ownership of that mansion out on the beach. So the bickering and fighting continues.
Stern did issue a stern warning, though, that any media outlet that uses any of the images that he says were stolen from that house will be, you know, sued vigorously.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Gloria Allred, veteran trial lawyer, and Daniel Horowitz, also a veteran trial lawyer. To you, Gloria Allred. I understand Larry Birkhead is headed for the Bahamas. What will that do for his paternity case?
GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY: Well, I think it`s not so much whether he`s headed for the Bahamas as to whether or not his lawyer is able to successfully argue that, in fact, Bahamian court has jurisdiction or whether California court has jurisdiction.
Apparently, in the Bahamas, that`s where the custody issue is going to be resolved once the paternity issue is resolved. The question is, is the court in California going to continue to have jurisdiction when, in fact, Anna Nicole`s body is in Florida? You know, it may be that the test gets completed. Then the custody battle occurs in the Bahamas. I think that`s what`s likely to happen.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Becky in Missouri. Hi, Becky.
CALLER: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CALLER: I was wondering if Anna Nicole had a will and, if she did, if it was in effect before Daniel died or after, and if Howard Stern was the lawyer that drew the will?
GRACE: Good question. James Neavitt?
NEAVITT: Nancy, there is a will. Howard is the executor. He did not prepare the will, and the will was prepared before Daniel died.
GRACE: And, Mr. Neavitt, while I`ve got you -- this is Howard K. Stern`s lawyer -- has there been an inventory made of what all was stolen from her Bahaman mansion?
NEAVITT: You know, I don`t know that.
GRACE: OK, I`m sure we`ll find out. Out to you, Janet...
NEAVITT: I`ve been told what`s been taken. But in a general sense, not specifically.
GRACE: Right, photographs, artwork, and a video allegedly of her giving birth to Dannielynn.
NEAVITT: Exactly.
GRACE: You know, somebody had to know where to find that video. I mean, I`m sure it wasn`t lying out on a coffee table or in plain view. Very interesting. And I`m waiting for a police report in that.
Out to Janet in New York. Hi, Janet.
CALLER: Hi, how you doing?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CALLER: I wanted to know if they could tell if she suffered before she died. And if she wasn`t really married to Howard K. Stern, can her mother have her body because she`s next of kin?
GRACE: Good legal question. Daniel Horowitz, to you.
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Unfortunately, Howard seems not to have been married to her. The mother will get the body. And, you know, it`s unfortunate. She suffered before she died because she died of a broken heart, because she lost her son Daniel. The actual cause of death will not involve at all foul play. She died because her heart was broken and disease took her. It`s a tragedy.
GRACE: Disease?
HOROWITZ: That`s right.
GRACE: I`m sorry, I thought you had your J.D., not your M.D. Did I miss something?
HOROWITZ: Yes, they`re all trying to go after Howard Stern...
GRACE: Disease? What disease?
HOROWITZ: People like that so-called friend is basically saying an FBI agent implied that Howard Stern killed her. There`s a lot of these unethical people trying to blame Howard Stern...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: There`s no evidence of that whatsoever. I don`t think anyone`s implying that at all.
HOROWITZ: Well, she said, "I should talked to an FBI agent and drug feeding," and it`s cumulative. No FBI agent would talk to a witness and give a theory of a case. So these are people who are self-serving. This woman on your show, Howard Stern, is suffering and she should keep her mouth closed. And that`s why I made that point.
GRACE: Out to you, Jackie Hatten. Response?
HATTEN: My friend, I have witnessed that man, Howard K. Stern, give my friend multiple drugs, at one time and multiple times over the course of the years. And this gentleman, sir, you do not know what you`re talking about in my book, because I`ve witnessed it and you have not.
And how dare you try to tell me that my friend did not suffer when she has, over the years, of accumulative effect. Yes, she did die. Whether or not he gave it to her at the last minute or not, it doesn`t matter. My friend, which I do believe he did, and I do believe it was premeditated, because I have been around for a very long time, dear sir.
And my friend is no longer gone. And I have warned way too many people, including government officials, and FBI, and friends, and family, so, dear sir, my friends are not returning. And everyone is calling me back telling me, "Oh, I`m so sorry."
HOROWITZ: You`re no friend of hers. She loved him, and you`re no friend of hers.
GRACE: OK, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. Actually, Daniel, they`ve been friends for many, many years. If you disagree with her allegations, that`s a completely different thing.
And out to you, Mike Brooks. There has been no allegation or suggestion of homicide.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: None whatsoever, Nancy. But, you know, we talk about a lot on your show, about a lot of other cases. Would Howard K. Stern be willing to take a polygraph, just to totally clear the air of all the allegations? That would be my question, number one, in the death of Daniel, and, number two, in the death of Anna Nicole.
Take a polygraph. Clear the air.
GRACE: Where should we start with the Anna Nicole investigation, Mike?
BROOKS: I`ll tell you what there`s a lot of people that they`re interviewing right now. And we`ve seen what the medical examiner, Dr. Perper, he has been doing his own interviews right now, Nancy. There`s a lot that we don`t know. The toxicology report is going to give us a lot more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PERPER: We are going to release the body to whoever has the legal right, whoever is the legal next of kin. And we`ll require a court order, because there might be a conflict. At this time, the only person who requested the body for purposes of burial was Mr. Stern, and no one else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. Out to the lines. Renee in California, hi, Renee.
CALLER: Hi. How are you doing, Nancy?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CALLER: With all of the gentlemen coming forward and proclaiming to be Dannielynn`s father, where was Howard K. Stern when these relationships were taking place?
GRACE: You know what? I`m not necessarily sure that all of these relationships happened. From what we have been able to ascertain, Stern was with her all the time for the last couple of years. So that would have to be the phantom lover, I guess, Renee. I don`t see it.
To Dr. Patricia Saunders, Dr. Saunders, I think Jackie Hatten had a very good point about the use of drugs over time. I`d like you to address that, as well as Daniel Horowitz`s claim, as the new medical examiner on the case, that she died of a broken heart.
DR. PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Nobody dies literally of a broken heart, Nancy. But people, when they have depression, or as I think happened with Anna Nicole, traumatic grief at the sudden death of her son Daniel, will not take good care of themselves, and they may use medications or drugs or alcohol to try and suppress their feelings.
GRACE: Dr. Saunders, you know, just because someone enables you to use drugs or stands by and lets it happen, that doesn`t mean they committed murder. I mean, it`s bad. It`s enabling, but it`s not murder.
SAUNDERS: No, it`s not. And it`s pretty hard to stop someone from using drugs and medication. Even if you take it away from them, they`re going to find it or they`ll go out and get it from somebody else.
GRACE: I want to thank all of our guests tonight, especially to you, Dr. Joshua Perper, and to you, Mike Brooks, for being with us. NANCY GRACE signing off for tonight. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
