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Nancy Grace
Court Battle Over Anna Nicole Smith`s Remains Continues
Aired February 14, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, emergency hearings following the death of covergirl Anna Nicole Smith. Not only are family and legal executors claiming her body, now dueling courts from California to Florida weigh in. A Florida judge orders her body to remain refrigerated at a Florida morgue, while California orders it released. At this hour, it appears embalming will take place but under such tight security, the body won`t even be moved to a funeral home. Instead, embalmers coming there to the medical examiner`s.
And who will claim Anna Nicole for burial? Even the courts don`t know that yet. And while all the parties slug it out in court, who`s taking care of the little girl at the heart of the controversy, the 5-month-old daughter of Anna Nicole set to inherit $475 million?
And tonight, a mystery surrounding an 8-year-old boy punished to death for not praying hard enough during an on-line church service?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joseph and Sonya Smith (ph) are accused of beating their son to death. The couple admitted to detectives that they used glue sticks and belts to discipline their children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were just some unusual marks on his chest, and we rolled him over (INAUDIBLE) we noticed some -- almost, like scars, some serious marks on his back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when we took his pants off, we noticed a substantial amount of injury and what appeared to be burns on the back of his legs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are eight candles on that cake. But you know what`s not on there? One more candle for his 9th birthday because he didn`t get to see that. You may think that`s harsh, but it`s true. And it was at the hands of those people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Why did that little boy have to die at just 8 years old? Prosecutors allege the family, the parents, had put closed-circuit TVs in a closet, with a cross, and made the boy go in there and pray as punishment, and then watched him through that closed-circuit camera, his body covered in bruises at the time of his death.
Good evening, everybody, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. But first, to Florida, an order to embalm and a legal battle over who will claim Anna Nicole Smith`s body.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I assume that we are going to have a battle over who`s going to obtain the remains of Anna Nicole.
JUDGE LARRY SEIDLIN, FLORIDA CIRCUIT COURT: I`m not releasing it. This body belongs to me now. I`m not releasing the body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is Howard Stern who is to receive the remains of Anna Nicole to provide for her burial or whatever the disposition is going to be, in accordance with her wishes.
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: We are going to release the body to whoever has the legal right, whoever is the legal next of kin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Birkhead doesn`t have any standing to obtain the body, so I don`t think you`re going to hear anything from him. We all know that Anna Nicole would not want Virgie (ph) to have control of her body.
SEIDLIN: This body`s staying right here. We`ll decide what condition and what place we put the body. But the body belongs to me now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am imploring Virgie to back off on this issue to the extent that she thinks that she`s going to obtain the body of Anna Nicole.
PERPER: Holding the body indefinitely would result in damage to the body.
SEIDLIN: It`s cold, but it won`t decompose so fast. That baby is on a cold, cold storage room. It`s not decaying so fast.
PERPER: When you leave a body, even in the refrigeration condition, the more time elapses since the death, there are going to be destructed tissue in the body.
SEIDLIN: I am not rushing. We`re crossing every T and dotting every I. This body belongs to me now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight down to Miami. Standing by, investigative reporter Art Harris. Art, what`s happening there?
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Nancy, (INAUDIBLE) and you saw Judge Larry Seidlin. He will have a hearing tomorrow morning at 9:30 to determine who gets the body and what happens to it. There was Virgie Arthur`s lawyer in court, in his -- his courtroom today, as well as Larry Birkhead`s, and of course, Howard Stern`s. And everyone is vying for a piece of this action, Nancy.
GRACE: Take a listen to what the Florida judge had to say, Art.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEIDLIN: I`m not releasing the body. This body belongs to me now. I`m not releasing the body. From what I read, this body`s staying right here. We`ll decide how we -- what condition and what place we put the body. But the body belongs to me now.
It`s cold. But it won`t decompose so fast. That baby is on a cold, cold storage room. It`s not decaying so fast. I can go over there now and look at it. And I can go back in a month and still look at it. So there`s no rush. We`re not rushing. I am not rushing. We`re crossing every T and dotting every I. We`re going to spend a lot of time together. It`s a nice group.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I don`t know if that`s exactly how I would refer to the dead body of a lady waiting over at the morgue to be buried.
Very quickly, I want to go out to Dr. Joshua Perper, chief medical examiner there in Broward County. Is that true, as he referred to "that baby" -- I assume he`s referring to the dead body of covergirl Anna Nicole Smith -- you could just leave it there indefinitely, refrigerated?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: That`s not correct. And obviously, this kind of reference to a person who is deceased is disrespectful. But Judge Seidlin asked me to be there tomorrow during the hearing because he wants to resolve also the question of the DNA and find out whether we took sufficient DNA samples, which we did.
GRACE: And you know, another thing that`s disturbing is to say, I can go look at the dead, naked body anytime I want to. I don`t like that. Dr. Perper, who can go and view this body at will?
PERPER: First of all, the medical examiner`s office is not a viewing facility. In certain cases, we permit viewing of the body to close relatives. And we are not going to permit, and we usually don`t permit, the viewing for anyone else.
GRACE: Dr. Perper, has the body been embalmed as of tonight?
PERPER: No, it hasn`t been because my understanding is Judge Seidlin forbade that. In other words, there was a previous order from the family court which directed us to embalm the body, and now we have a new order from Judge Seidlin, who is the probate judge, and apparently, his decision is the final one.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Let`s go straight out to Renee Rockwell, joining us tonight. Renee, sounds like there`s too many cooks in the kitchen, all the judges weighing in, all these litigants trying to literally get the corpse of Anna Nicole Smith.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And Nancy, I would think that Howard Stern`s got the best position because, don`t forget, he is the presumed father, and not because he`s a lawyer or the executor of any will that she may or may not have, but standing in as the guardian of Dannielynn, who is the person right now next in line. She`s the closest of kin.
GRACE: Also with us tonight, another lawyer who is Anna Nicole Smith`s mom`s lawyer. This is the lawyer for Virgie Arthur. He is joining us from Nassau, Bahamas. Jamal Davis, thank you for being with us.
JAMAL DAVIS, BAHAMIAN ATTORNEY FOR ANNA NICOLE`S MOTHER: My pleasure, Nancy. It`s a real pleasure to be on your show.
GRACE: Thank you. Mr. Davis, what is your client, Virgie Arthur`s, intentions regarding the body of Anna Nicole Smith?
DAVIS: Well, Nancy, regrettably, I`m not able to -- I haven`t spoken to Ms. Arthur for the last, I suppose, five hours or so. But it`s quite obvious that Ms. Arthur seeks to have closure on this aspect of the -- of the matter. And she just simply wants to give her daughter a decent burial. Now, I`m just going based on my own intuition, but I`m sure that that is what she`s motivated by, and only that, Nancy.
GRACE: Out to Matt Meagher, joining us. He is with "Inside Edition." He`s also joining us there from Nassau, Bahamas. Matt, thanks for being with us again tonight. Is it true that Virgie Arthur wants to take the body home to Texas, the place where Anna Nicole Smith tried desperately to leave -- Mexia, Texas?
MATT MEAGHER, "INSIDE EDITION": She has said that many times. Again, you can believe what Anna Nicole said by as many people who heard her say anything. You know, for every time you can hear that Anna Nicole never wanted to go back to Texas, you hear that she was trying to make amends with her mother. So you know, the dead can`t speak, no matter what you think. And you`ve got everybody speaking for her.
GRACE: Of course, a Florida judge did just that today. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The order says that the body stays at the medical examiner`s office pending further order of this court or the California court (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes, Your Honor. In other words, all we want you to do is to honor what the California court has said in its order, which is to maintain the remains of Ms. Marshall in the state of Florida in Broward County.
SEIDLIN: So this order directed to who, to Dr. Perper?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly, and to any...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, and to any appropriate Broward County agencies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am imploring Virgie to back off on this issue to the extent that she thinks that she`s going to obtain the body of Anna Nicole. We all know that Anna Nicole would not want Virgie to have control of her body, and I am hoping and praying that justice follows what the intent of Anna Nicole was and that Howard Stern will be able to follow up on what the wishes were of Anna Nicole for her -- the disposition of her remains.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: As all of this is going on, Anna Nicole Smith`s body waiting to be embalmed there at the medical examiner`s office.
Out to you, James Neavitt. This is Howard Stern`s attorney. A lot happening in various courts today. What is your legal opinion on what went down today?
JAMES NEAVITT, HOWARD K. STERN`S ATTORNEY: Well, what went down is the court in Florida had the order from Friday and relied on that order in ordering that the body be continue to be held until the hearing on the 20th. We didn`t know about that hearing. We weren`t notified about it. We did notify a hearing this morning to get the body released in California, and we were successful in that motion.
Dr. Perper and all the attorneys were on that phone call, and to the satisfaction of the court, he believed there`s enough DNA being collected by the doctor in Florida that any issue of DNA is protected, so he rescinded his order, allowing the Florida court to do whatever it needs to do.
GRACE: Out to Mike Brooks. Mike, from the criminal angle, if there even is one in this case, what should be happening now?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Well, I tell you what, Nancy. We still don`t know if a crime has been committed. We don`t know if there was any foul play. You know, just because -- just because there was no trauma to the body doesn`t mean that there was -- there could have not have been foul play. We have to wait for the toxicology report to come back. That is going to take the investigation down the road. Right now, they`re not at a standstill, but they`re still making -- doing interviews right now (INAUDIBLE) but they`re kind of stopped, waiting to see where this is going to take them.
If it comes back that there was all kinds of different things in her system, then they`re going to go back and they`re going to talk to some more people to find out the who, what, when, where, why and how these substances, poisons, whatever, were in her system. But right now, there`s a lot of questions remain unanswered.
GRACE: To you, Art Harris. I know that the various hearings were held today, but where do they all leave us?
HARRIS: ... judge (INAUDIBLE) courtroom tomorrow morning at 9:30, Probate Judge Larry Seidlin, you heard from him, he will decide who is the legal next of kin. Is it going to be Howard K. Stern, who came in with a pile of papers documenting why Anna Nicole wants him to bury the body back in the Bahamas, next to her son, Daniel? Will it be Virgie Arthur, whose lawyer came to town saying Howard Stern is a stranger and has no right to the body, and wants to bury it in a lonely Texas plain? And then you have Larry Birkhead`s people who were there, as well, Nancy, making sure that they`ve got plenty of DNA to stand in line to be the bio dad.
GRACE: OK, so here are our choices. We`ve got Anna Nicole buried in Texas. Her son is buried in the Bahamas. She could be buried there.
Is it true -- out to you Matt Meagher -- that she bought two plots, each plot can hold two people?
MEAGHER: I`ve seen the plot that Daniel is supposedly buried in. It`s a crowded (ph) plot. His grave is not marked. The lawyers for Anna Nicole here in the Bahamas say that it was definitely her wish to be buried here. We may learn more if the will is opened. It may be included in the will. We`ve asked her lawyer that, and he won`t tell us if it is in the will specifically, but he says that several times, she told him that she wanted to be buried there.
GRACE: OK, so bottom line, there are two plots and each plot contains room for two people. Yes, no.
MEAGHER: I can`t tell you. There`s no marker on Daniel`s grave. Can I say that there`s no body next to -- or there`s three empty spaces around him? I can`t say that.
GRACE: Very interesting. Back out to Howard Stern`s lawyer, James Neavitt. Does the will state where she wants to be buried?
NEAVITT: I can`t discuss what`s in the will, except that Howard`s the executor, Ron is the alternate, and that`s all I know about the will. I`m not a probate attorney. I`m dealing with the family law matter in California.
GRACE: Have you seen the will?
NEAVITT: No, I haven`t seen it myself.
GRACE: But you do know it exists?
NEAVITT: I do know it exists. I`ve been told -- well, I didn`t see it. I was told by the various people involved.
GRACE: Hey, Mr. Neavitt -- with us is James Neavitt, Howard K. Stern`s lawyer -- if there is no will, what happens to her estate?
NEAVITT: My understanding, under California law, it would go intestate. In terms of Florida law or Bahamian law, that would be based on their jurisdiction.
GRACE: So intestate, simply without a will, means what, for our viewers?
NEAVITT: Well, it would mean that it would go to Dannielynn as far as the estate is concerned, and then Dannielynn`s father would be the administrator of the estate.
GRACE: Very quickly, out to the lines. Tina in Alabama. Hi, Tina.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, Did Anna Nicole Smith have a life insurance policy? And if so, who is the beneficiary?
GRACE: Good question. Mr. Neavitt, did she have an insurance policy?
NEAVITT: I have no idea. Sorry.
GRACE: Now, you`re representing Howard K. Stern. If there had been one and he was the beneficiary, you`d probably know that, correct?
NEAVITT: No, I`m only dealing with the family law action in California, so I don`t know what`s going on in the probate or other matters, other than what I`m told, and I haven`t been told that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEIDLIN: It`s cold. But it won`t decompose so fast. That baby is on a cold, cold storage room. It`s not decaying so fast. I can go over there now and look at it. And I can go back in a month and still look at it. So there`s no rush. We`re not rushing. I am not rushing. We`re crossing every T and dotting every I. We`re going to spend a lot of time together. It`s a nice group.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I don`t like the way he`s talking about her dead body. Judge Larry Seidlin, you are in contempt!
Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Renee Rockwell and Jamal Davis. Renee, that`s very disturbing that he would refer to this lady`s dead body in that way.
ROCKWELL: But you know what, Nancy? You know what that is?
GRACE: No, I don`t, except inappropriate, highly inappropriate!
ROCKWELL: But you know what a body is at this point? A dead body is really a piece of property, and that`s what everybody`s fighting over.
GRACE: You know what, Renee?
ROCKWELL: It`s harsh, but that`s true.
GRACE: Renee, was it -- this is cross-exam. Yes, no. Was that inappropriate?
ROCKWELL: I`m sure if he had the chance to do it again, he would say something different.
GRACE: Yes, if he thought nobody was looking!
Back out to you, Jamal Davis, Virgie Arthur`s Bahamian attorney. Where is Virgie Arthur tonight, Mr. Davis?
DAVIS: As I said earlier, Nancy, I haven`t spoken to her for several hours now, but she ought to be in Florida or en route to the Bahamas.
GRACE: OK. You said five hours, and I don`t think she can transport herself that quickly. So Florida -- I`m getting the word Florida.
Back to you, Art Harris, investigative reporter in Miami. Is that true, and will she be making court appearances? Has she gone to the morgue?
HARRIS: The medical examiner, when I spoke to him and asked him, he said he has not gotten a call from her, Nancy. Very, very rarely, if ever, does he let people come to view bodies there. It`s not a viewing facility.
GRACE: No, he told me that. I mean, do you know where Virgie Arthur is?
HARRIS: I do not. But everyone was thinking she might come by to see her daughter but has not yet.
GRACE: Yes. Art, a lot of court rulings today. Where do we stand on paternity right now?
HARRIS: Well, they have enough DNA. They got a shovelful, you know, to test as many daddies as they want, Nancy. And they`re waiting for this California hearing on the 20th, as well as for Judge Seidlin to get his arms around this case. He is going to really dig into this. He`s going to...
GRACE: Oh, he is really going to some manners classes, I hope, before he gets back on the bench. Very quickly...
HARRIS: Nancy, this guy -- he`s a former juvenile judge. He just took over the probate court, and he is really a terrific guy. I think you`ll see him be very fair. But it`s -- he`s got a bedside manner that definitely melts ice.
GRACE: Yes. I don`t know about that bedside manner. Maybe his ruling is correct, but the way he phrased it -- you know, Mike Brooks, I`m not hearing anything about the preservation of evidence.
BROOKS: No, nothing at all. I mean, you know, we`re talking about chain of custody here. I mean, that`s the whole thing. That`s why that Dr. Perper I thought was a good move, has gotten the Broward County sheriff`s office to provide security there at the morgue. And I think it`s another good move, Nancy, for him to go ahead -- once everything is settled, to go ahead and embalm the body there and keep the circus atmosphere down to a minimum.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Diane in California. Hi, Diane.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nancy, how can they release her body when they don`t know how she died yet?
GRACE: You know, that`s an excellent question. To you, Dr. Perper. How can you release a body when you don`t have cause of death yet?
PERPER: Because we took sufficient sampling from various tissue for a variety and a wide array of tests, and we feel that our examination is totally complete.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEIDLIN: I`m not releasing the body. This body belongs to me now. I`m not releasing the body. From what I read, this body`s staying right here. We`ll decide how we -- what condition and what place we put the body. But the body belongs to me now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Creepy comments by the judge, although his ruling, I believe, was totally correct under the law.
Let`s go out to the lines. Teresa in California. Hi, Teresa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I just want to say I just love you. I never miss your show.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But my question for the medical examiner -- we didn`t hear either in Daniel`s case or in Anna Nicole`s what the contents of the stomach was. I was just wondering if she could have been given orange juice with methadone in it, if they`d be able to tell.
GRACE: Dr. Joshua Perper is with us. He is the chief medical examiner there in Broward County. He and a team of doctors took six hours to perform the autopsy on Anna Nicole Smith. Dr. Perper, can you take that question?
PERPER: Yes. Basically, we found in the stomach a small amount of blood, or bloody fluid. I cannot tell you if it was in some orange juice mix because you cannot distinguish that. But we are going to test the stomach contents, and if there`s any drug inside, we`ll be able to tell.
GRACE: I guess, Dr. Perper, you`re still not going to tell me what`s in the urinalysis, are you.
PERPER: That`s correct. And the reason is that we don`t want to release information...
GRACE: But that only makes me think something was in there.
PERPER: No. You cannot read it one way or another.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am imploring Virgie to back off on this issue, to the extent that she thinks that she`s going to obtain the body of Anna Nicole. We all know that Anna Nicole would not want Virgie to have control of her body, and I am hoping and praying that justice follows what the intent of Anna Nicole was, and that Howard Stern will be able to follow up on what the wishes were of Anna Nicole for the disposition of her remains.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. As we do legal battle over all the legal issues, right now, Anna Nicole Smith`s body is still on a slab there in the morgue, awaiting to be released to be embalmed, to being buried.
Straight out to the lines. Lauren in Massachusetts. Hi, Lauren.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. First of all, I have to say, that judge in Florida, he`s just showing an abhorrent lack of class.
GRACE: Agree.
CALLER: I`m horrified. As far as Virgie Arthur, I think as a mom, as a mom of a 20-something daughter, she needs to step back and do what the daughter would have wanted, which clearly I think nobody is going to dispute she should be buried with her son. You know, if they have to do a proviso that they do not cremate the body between her and Stern for DNA reasons down the line, but the girl certainly needs to be buried, and certainly not in Texas, where she hasn`t been in, what, 15 years?
GRACE: Lauren, I`ve got to agree with you. And the reality is, regardless of what anybody thinks of Mr. Stern, that is who she chose to be with him in the last years of her life. Whether that marriage was legal or valid or not in the Bahamas, that was her decision. She made that decision. I agree with you wholeheartedly.
And, you know, I don`t know this judge`s background, although I will find out about it tonight. I hope that nobody refers to me and my cold, dead body in that manner, because I find it very, very offensive, although his ruling was legally correct.
Speaking of the Bahamas, out to Jamal Davis. This is Miss Arthur`s, the grandmother`s, Bahaman attorney. Jamal Davis, question. It`s my understanding you got an order that the baby could not be removed from the Bahamas. Is that true?
JAMAL DAVIS, BAHAMIAN ATTORNEY FOR ANNA NICOLE`S MOTHER, VIRGIE: That is true, Nancy. Yesterday, we filed what is called an originating summons. Myself, along with my associates, Debra Hanfield (ph) and Maria McCartney (ph), we (INAUDIBLE) inside that summons for, one, that Miss Arthur be given guardianship of the infant and, secondly, that, prior to the issue as to guardian issue being heard, that an injunction be granted to prevent the child from being removed from the Bahamas.
So there was a concern that the child may very well be removed from the Bahamas in light of the application made yesterday.
GRACE: You mean, were you afraid the child would be removed and hidden?
DAVIS: Well, Nancy, I can`t say hidden, but at least out of the jurisdiction of the country. And as the application was made for guardianship, if the child was not here, then whatever order was made regarding the guardianship could possibly have been frustrated.
GRACE: To Dr. Joshua Perper, the chief medical examiner there in Broward County who conducted the autopsy, what do you personally make of all this legal wrangling, number one? Number two, when do you expect the embalmers to come to the medical examiner`s office to embalm the body?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, BROWARD COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: OK. Let me start with the second question. I cannot have any expectation of any timing, because I`m going to do whatever the court is going to direct me to do.
As to the legal complication, my understanding is that there are a lot of emotional issue here. And in addition to that, there are substantial financial interests at risk. So when this happens, legal eagles always are involved.
GRACE: Dr. Perper, I was just thinking back on what I heard the judge say, Judge Larry Seidlin there in Florida, that, "The body`s mine now. I could go over to the morgue and look at it." Is it just that easy? Could this judge just go over there and look? I assume her cold, naked body is lying there on a slab in one of those drawers in the M.E.`s office.
PERPER: I didn`t realize that the judge made the comment that he can come. I don`t remember, since I was 30 years in the medical examiner`s office, a judge coming and viewing a body. But I would say that...
GRACE: You know what? I think you`re right. I think he said, "It`s my body." Who has the authority to come in and view the body?
PERPER: Well, only the very close family. But a judge obviously has a great deal of latitude. And if a judge would like to see the body for judicial purposes, I certainly wouldn`t shut the door in front of him.
GRACE: You know, I think you`re right, Dr. Perper. I think what he said was, "The body is mine now." You`re correct about that.
PERPER: Well, I understand that there`s no such -- from a legal point of view, a body doesn`t belong to anybody except for purposes of funeral disposition and burial. There are no other rights, so far as I know. But, you know, I might be wrong.
So when he says, "The body`s mine," basically what he wants to say, from (INAUDIBLE) happier expression to say, "The body`s under my control or under my jurisdiction," which is correct.
GRACE: Yes, yes, absolutely correct.
Art Harris, we`ve heard a lot from the Bahaman babysitter. What have you learned?
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Well, Nancy, there`s an affidavit that she made out, TMZ reported today, that she said Anna Nicole deliberately wanted the baby underfed so the baby could be, quote, "sexy," three ounces of formula...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I don`t know that I believe that, underfeed a baby so the baby can be sexy?
HARRIS: There`s a nanny that was also fired, she says, because Anna became enraged that she had misplaced the instructions to the washing machine. But she also said that she tried to commit suicide twice, and one time that Howard Stern fished her out of a pool with the help of a bodyguard and told her, "You know, if you die, I`m going to be in trouble. They`re going to come and arrest me," or something to that effect. And so this doesn`t sound like someone who wanted Anna Nicole Smith to die.
GRACE: I think you`re right. We`re showing you right now a copy, or we were showing you -- let me try to get that back up -- a copy of an air bill, Dr. Perper, an air bill showing that a degree of drugs, quite a quantity, actually, was FedExed to the name Vickie Marshall, a name that Anna Nicole Smith used. And in that was methadone -- let me see what else I have on my list -- Demerol, and injectable B-12.
Dr. Perper, would you have been able to determine if any of those interacted in her body?
PERPER: We are checking for that, and the toxicological analysis is not yet completed. We are going to be able to say exactly what kind of drugs she has in the system, and we also have a list of all the medications which she was on.
GRACE: OK.
PERPER: So we are not going to miss on this.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Jamie in Tennessee. Hi, Jamie.
CALLER: Hi, Miss Nancy. I have a question about the will.
GRACE: OK.
CALLER: If there is, in fact, a will, how come it cannot be read to see if her wishes were expressed in the will?
GRACE: You know, that`s a great question. Out to you, Mr. James Neavitt. This is Howard K. Stern`s attorney. All this legal wrangling, her wishes may be made very clear in the will. When will the will be read?
JAMES NEAVITT, HOWARD K. STERN`S ATTORNEY: Well, I believe there`s a statutory time for all this, and I believe that the attorneys in Florida right now are dealing with that.
GRACE: Right.
NEAVITT: I`m not involved in that part of the case. But, yes, there is a will. It will be presented at the proper time through the courts. And I think that`s going to be fairly soon.
GRACE: Good. Good.
And out to you, Matt Meagher with "Inside Edition." He`s joining us from Nassau, Bahamas. Did the Ben Thompson count admit to taking those items from the home? What has become of that, her Bahaman mansion?
MATT MEAGHER, "INSIDE EDITION": He did. He said he had every right to go in there. He was doing it for -- it`s actually his son-in-law who has spoken up on this and said that he did go in. He said that the refrigerator door was open. He had just happened to take a picture of it, and that, yes, he is responsible for that picture.
But, you know, Nancy, where did these court documents come from that surfaced today? Where did all of the prescriptions and the receipts of the air bill come from? This stuff is still being leaked by people who stand to win from this case somehow.
And despite the lawyers` threats of filing suits, you have to believe that most of that stuff that surfaced today, you know, came from whoever took it from the house.
GRACE: And very quickly, to Rose in Pennsylvania. Hi, Rose.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CALLER: My question is, does anyone know where Anna Nicole`s father is? And could he step in and go into court to claim the body, to possibly make sure that this woman is buried with her son?
GRACE: OK. Art Harris, what has become of her father?
HARRIS: You know, that`s a good question, Nancy.
GRACE: I haven`t heard a peep from him throughout.
HARRIS: Yes, but I was going to tell you about the stolen merchandise and where it turned up, yesterday, in South Carolina, Nancy. Ford Shelley, who is the son-in-law, turned it into the sheriff.
GRACE: Ah. Thank you, Art Harris. That cleared up a lot.
And very quickly, Caryn Stark, do you believe all these parties involved are acting out of love for Anna Nicole Smith?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: That makes no sense, Nancy. Love would be the last thing that I would think of. Money would be the thing that would come to mind, also publicity. There`s nothing about this that shows grief or love.
GRACE: Caryn Stark, psychotherapist, joining us.
I want to remind you, when we come back, the mystery revolving around an 8-year-old boy. Was he punished to death for not praying hard enough during an online church service?
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(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: It wouldn`t take long for an 8-year-old boy in this small space to quit breathing. This isn`t involuntary manslaughter; this is malice murder.
There are eight candles on that cake. But you know what`s not on there? One more candle, for his ninth birthday, because he didn`t get to see that. This is not what we do to children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Oh, yes, they`re crying in court now during closing arguments, but it was their son, their 8-year-old son, locked in a closet, with a closed circuit TV watching him as he was in there, where he was supposed to be praying. He was crying then.
That little boy lost his life, allegedly punished to death because he didn`t pray hard enough during some online church service. Incredible! And the woman you saw giving that closing argument, a frequent guest here on our show, prosecutor Eleanor Dixon, trying that case in front of a jury.
Out to you, Nicole Partin, joining us. She`s a station manager at UCTV. Tell me about the case, and the connection to this church.
NICOLE PARTIN, STATION MANAGER, UCTV: Good evening, Nancy. After hearing testimony from witnesses, including a former babysitter, young Joseph`s older brother, doctors and even a dermatologist, they jury began their deliberation about 4:30 this afternoon. Thirty minutes later, they were sent home for the evening.
GRACE: Hold on, hold on, Nicole. We`re just showing -- I wish you could see this -- Eleanor Dixon is just showing the actual box. This child was often punished by putting him in the box and then shut it with electrical cord. Incredible. Go ahead, Nicole. I just wanted the viewers to know what they were seeing.
PARTIN: Sure, Nancy. The jury began deliberation about this afternoon. Thirty minutes later, they were told to go home for the evening and return in the morning.
GRACE: What?
PARTIN: And so the case continues. And all of this apparently linked to the religious beliefs of this family. And, yes, it has been reported that the family was watching the church service via a video webcast, when unfortunately young Joseph lost his life.
GRACE: Question, what church is it?
PARTIN: It`s Remnant Fellowship, and this church is founded by the lady they call their leader, Gwen Shamblin. And, Nancy, I wanted to get an eyewitness account, so I drove out to the church and was in service with them last Wednesday evening.
GRACE: How were you treated?
PARTIN: I was not welcome at all, to say the least. It`s my understanding that this church is basically by invitation only. I found a multimillion-dollar facility with approximately 600 people there.
But everyone very quiet, not willing to talk. And I was actually met in the parking lot and questioned by two gentlemen. I did, in fact, get to attend the service, but I was told to stand in the back. And then I was escorted to my car at the end of the service, very non-traditional, very unconventional, to say the least.
GRACE: Yes, well, that`s a nice way of putting it. Now, let me ask you something, about this closed circuit TV they allegedly had in the closet where the little boy had to go. What was that?
PARTIN: Yes, they had cameras set up in a closet, and they would monitor this young boy. And apparently this particular evening in question, the parents say that the boy wasn`t praying enough or wasn`t praying loud enough. But they would actually lock him in the closet, it`s believed, and then monitor his praying by these closed circuit TVs.
GRACE: Good lord in Heaven. What you`ve seen me swinging around here is apparently what goes into a glue gun. It`s flexible. You can`t break it. Mike Brooks, what role did this play in the boy`s death?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: Well, you know, Nancy, some people are saying, can this glue stick be a deadly weapon? Absolutely. And Eleanor Dixon was also talking today about an extension cord, a belt, clothes hangers, high-heeled shoes. Any of these can be used as a deadly weapon.
When I was a cop, you know, they used to say shod foot (ph), ADW, assault with a dangerous weapon or a deadly weapon, shod foot (ph). This could be ADW glue stick, Nancy. You know, the dermatologist was saying this was eczema.
GRACE: Eczema? Eczema`s a rash.
BROOKS: I`m not buying that. Exactly. Thank you. I`m not buying this.
GRACE: You don`t die from eczema.
BROOKS: And this Remnant Fellowship Church in Brentwood, Tennessee, their leader, they endorse corporal punishment, Nancy.
GRACE: Isn`t it that the church that has the diet, some kind of way to get thin?
BROOKS: Yes, they sure do. But here`s what she said. You know, when she was interviewed about their endorsing corporal punishment, she said, "We don`t leave marks," and called spanking "loving, time-tested, ancient teaching from the Bible." What a crock. It`s a cult, not a church.
GRACE: Yes, I never read anything about beating a child in the Bible.
BROOKS: No.
GRACE: Of course, I haven`t read the whole thing yet, as was pointed out to me last week.
To you, Dr. Daniel Spitz joining us, Dr. Spitz, you`re a forensic pathologist. Look at those marks. Horrific. That is not eczema. That child did not die of an infection from eczema, doctor.
DANIEL SPITZ, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: No, Nancy, you`re exactly right. Eczema is a skin condition that has the appearance of a red, crusted skin rash. What you`re seeing on this child`s body is clearly different from eczema. These are patterned, impact-type bruises which are caused from multiple, repeated periods of abuse, chronic abuse.
GRACE: To Caryn Stark, psychotherapist, one child testifying against his parents in this case. What will be the impact of that?
STARK: Well, I think that it`s so hard to testify against your parents, Nancy, that he won`t really be able to get over something like this. And your heart goes out to him, because he must have witnessed it and, in fact, experienced it himself.
GRACE: How do people get so brainwashed from a church that they will, for instance, use a glue stick on their child? The little boy`s body covered in bruises. He died from blunt trauma.
STARK: You`re not talking about rational behavior. When you`re brainwashed, you`re not thinking for yourself. There`s groupthink. And so that`s how it happens.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had extensive bruising, marks, injuries from head to toe on his body. He was covered extensively in injuries. I`ve worked in that unit for four years; it was the worst I`ve ever seen.
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GRACE: An 8-year-old boy dies. The mystery is, was he punished to death because he didn`t pray hard enough during an online church service? Out to you, Nicole Partin, station manager, UCTV, is it true the church actually advised them to use these glue sticks, these flexible glue sticks to beat children?
PARTIN: Yes, apparently so, Nancy. There is a Remnant Fellowship Handbook -- and I`ve learned this is only given to members. This is a members-only kind of handbook. But in the handbook, they are actually instructed to spank their children. And there are quotes, even on the Web page, such as, "Correction is the greatest love." And there are former members who do admit that they were told to use these glue guns as a form of punishment, these sticks of glue.
GRACE: Out to Renee Rockwell, defense attorney. Renee, is there any way the church can be named in some type of a civil suit?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you can file a civil suit against anyone, Nancy, maybe not a criminal case. But the person that`s representing the estate of this child could certainly sue the church for these damages.
GRACE: And back to you, Nicole Partin, what are the charges the parents are facing? Clearly murder one, I would hope.
PARTIN: Sure. Yes, absolutely. They are faced with murder one, felony murder, first-degree child cruelty, aggravated assault, and then false imprisonment, due to being -- you know, young Joseph being put in the box that you saw earlier.
GRACE: With us, Nicole Partin, station manager, UCTV. We`ll give you the verdict watch tomorrow on that case. The jury only out 30 minutes. It sounds like banker`s hours to us. Work it, Judge.
Let`s stop for a moment. Tonight, we want to remember Army Sergeant William Sigua, just 21, Los Altos Hills, California, killed, Iraq. Enlisting straight from high school, Sigua, a fantastic athlete and paratrooper, also served Afghanistan. He loved working out, reading and movies. His last e-mail to Mom, "If I don`t make it back, you can tell people you are proud of me and I of myself."
The youngest of three sons, he leaves behind grieving mom, Jackie. William Sigua, American hero.
Thank you to our guests and to you. I`ll see you tomorrow night. Good night, friend.
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