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CNN LARRY KING LIVE
The Battle Over Anna Nicole Smith's Body
Aired February 15, 2007 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your Honor, I object. There aren't any of those (ph).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, courtroom fireworks in the battle over Anna Nicole Smith's body and her baby.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have people that loved her, that stood by her, that were actually there that actually knew her. And the woman sitting across from me has not laid eyes on that young lady since 1995. She's never laid eyes on her granddaughter and she sits here today to take her to Texas and put her in the ground all alone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Attorneys for Anna Nicole's partner, Howard K. Stern; her former boyfriend, Larry Birkhead; and her estranged mom, go at it in a heated hearing. And we'll talk with lawyers who were there in the middle of it all.
Plus, the medical examiner who's got the body right now.
And, meet another paternity contender, Anna Nicole's one time bodyguard, who says he could be Dannielynn's daddy.
It's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Before we get to Court TV's Beth Karas with the latest from Miami, an interesting look inside the probate proceedings today in Broward County, Florida.
As you're about to see, the judge was direct and to the point.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are times when they exhume bodies because certain tests weren't done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we bury her, I want it to be forever. I don't want to put myself, this court or any other court in a position where, 20 years from now, we're exhuming a body. It's ridiculous. So we're going to get it right the first time. (END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Beth Karas, Court TV news correspondent, has been with this story since the get go.
Did they come to a conclusion today?
BETH KARAS, COURT TV CORRESPONDENT: Oh, far from it, Larry. But some progress was made today.
For example, it looks as though the attorneys who were there on behalf of Larry Birkhead are satisfied that enough DNA has been extracted, samples, so that they can do the testing that they want to do, and anyone else who may have some interest in this and claim paternity.
With that, then the judge will, in all likelihood, tomorrow morning, order that she be embalmed so that she will not decompose any further, that her body will be fit for viewing whenever the time comes that she is going to be buried.
He will move on Tuesday to who gets control of the body.
KING: And why this battle over the body?
KARAS: Well, a will hasn't -- a probate proceeding hasn't been established technically yet. So, without the will yet -- and we know there is a will -- the attorney for Anna Nicole's mother claims that this cemetery statute, a state statute, is what should be enforced now, that that trumps anything until a will is out there being battled and an executor is appointed by a court.
And the cemetery statute seems to indicate that Virgie Arthur, Anna Nicole's mother, has rights to that body for burial purposes.
But, I don't think that that's necessarily what's going to happen, because the will is going to start coming into play, probably early next week.
KING: Thanks, Beth, as always.
We'll probably talk to you again tomorrow night.
Beth Karas, Court TV news correspondent.
Let's go to Plantation, Florida.
Standing by, Kirsta Barth, the attorney for Howard K. Stern, and Ron Rale, who was Anna Nicole Smith's attorney. He says he's the successor executor for Anna Nicole's estate.
Krista, were you satisfied with the proceedings?
KRISTA BARTH, ATTORNEY FOR SMITH'S PARTNER, HOWARD K. STERN: I was satisfied that we moved forward today. I think that the judge made some progress and that things are moving forward, really. I'm satisfied, you know, we haven't reached a resolution, but some things have been taken care of. Some very important issues have been settled. And so I'm happy with that.
KING: What do you want?
BARTH: What do I want?
BARTH: It doesn't matter -- it doesn't matter what I want. But...
KING: Well, what does your client want?
BARTH: What my client wants is simply that the wishes of the decedent, Vickie Lynn Hogan -- Anna Nicole Smith -- be respected under Florida law despite all of the arguments that you're hearing. Really, you don't look to the statute if you have testamentary intent. And Florida law says that testamentary intent can be established by conversations outside of the parameters of a written will, that if you speak to people and you tell them where you want to be buried, that can be...
BARTH: ... the decision.
KING: Ron, I don't mean to appear gross, but Anna Nicole is gone.
Why does this matter a great deal?
RON RALE, ATTORNEY FOR ANNA NICOLE SMITH ESTATE: Well, it depends on what you're talking about. If you're talking about the paternity action in L.A. it really doesn't matter...
KING: No. No, I'm talking about the body.
RALE: The body, in terms of -- well, that's what this whole proceeding is about, is where will her remains be buried. It's a huge difference in potential outcomes either with Daniel in the Bahamas or in Texas, I believe, where Virgie -- Virgie -- wants to bring her.
So that is important even though Anna is not with us, her remains are. And we've got to dispose of those properly.
KING: When do you expect a decision, Ron?
RALE: You know, I leave that to Kirsta. But we're, you know, it appears that we're going to have some live testimony on Tuesday and we have -- the judge implemented a procedure with somebody to report and make recommendations.
So I don't know how long after that, but there is a procedure in place where we're going to get a resolution. KING: Krista, we have an e-mail question from Joslyn (ph), in Dallas, Texas: "Did Anna Nicole leave written instructions for her funeral arrangements or burial plans?"
BARTH: Not that I know of, at this point, Larry.
We have a will. The will is silent on the issue of burial. So there's nothing written there. But there -- there may be something written, not that I have at this point.
One thing I would say is a fairly significant representation of her intent, and I think it's sort of a written document, is her check hopefully will be admitted into evidence, that was used and drawn with her authority, to purchase these burial plots.
So, you know, that, to me, is a written testamentary intent.
KING: Ron, since we don't know who the father is -- in fact, no one knows until we have a DNA -- no one can say I'm the father. They can guess they're the father. Since we have to wait on all of that, why shouldn't the mother get the remains?
RALE: Well, I mean the mother -- that's, like, Larry, we're talking about two different things here.
You know, the paternity is one thing and we're looking about the DNA to determine who has the paternity of Dannielynn.
But in terms of Anna Nicole's remains, the rule is you want to go by the -- by her intent. So, that's what were looking for her. So it doesn't really have anything to do with the DNA.
KING: But if she left...
RALE: There's two separate issues.
KING: ... if she left no written statement about her intent, then you -- then you have to deal with what people say was her intent, right?
RALE: That's correct. That's how -- that's how I understand it works in Florida. And they allow oral evidence of the intent of the decedent.
KING: So the judge -- by the way, is the judge's decision appealable in a probate matter?
BARTH: Yes, but -- the answer is yes, that the judge's order would be appealable if we felt the need to do that. We're hopeful that that will not be the case. But, of course it is appealable and, you know, that would be certainly up to my client.
I know that this issue is extremely important to him and I know that my client will not be able to rest peacefully himself until Anna is resting peacefully next to her son.
When you say why does this need to be done?...
Anna's gone. That might be your opinion and all due respect, you know, there is a certain spiritual point here and a certain part of, you know, letting people rest. That's why the law recognizes the decedent's intent.
It's important where Anna wanted to be. The -- it's not just oh, there's no written document here. That's why the court says -- the case law says that first you look to the decedent's intent.
It's important where Anna wanted to go. This doesn't have anything to do with Mr. Stern. This doesn't have anything to do with Miss. Arthur.
KING: All right...
BARTH: I guess the question, Larry, is why does Miss. Arthur want her daughter to lay in Texas?
KING: We'll -- we'll explore that, as well, with other things. We'll talk about the actual value of Anna Nicole Smith's estate.
As we go to break, some harsh words from an attorney representing Anna's mother.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Stern is simply trying to throw a bunch of papers at the judge and get him to do something. And under the law, you can't do that. You know, the Florida Supreme Court has been very clear. The Florida statute is very clear, that Mr. Stern was, at best, Anna Nicole Smith's boyfriend. That's it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, let's cut to the chase.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I -- I understand (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not going to deal in a vacuum. I've got to know who the father is, don't I?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Krista Barth, how is this judge handling it, in your opinion?
BARTH: Larry, I don't know that it's ethically appropriate for me to talk about a judge and that he's actively in the middle of deciding a case. But one thing I can say is I think he's got a difficult matter on this plate, a lot of emotions, a lot of press. It's very difficult. I think he's professional. I think he's doing the very best job he can do. And I have great faith in the judicial system. I've been -- you know, I come from a family of lawyers. I've been doing this a long time. And I think he'll make the right decision.
KING: Ron, where is the baby?
RALE: The baby is in the Bahamas with Howard.
KING: They're both in the Bahamas?
KING: Will Howard have to come here to testify, do you think, Ron?
RALE: Well, you know, that's an interesting question also, because I believe Virgie went to the Bahamas and got an order that Dannielynn wasn't to be removed from the Bahamas. But that effectively precluded Howard from coming here to testify, because he's not going to leave Dannielynn, hopefully, ever again because, you know, with the break-in and a fear of, you know, my god, they could have taken Dannielynn.
So, you know, I think the court ordered today that -- over objections of counsel, the other counsel -- that testimony by phone would be appropriate.
KING: Bahamanian police were at the Horizon estate earlier today.
Was Howard there, do you know, Ron?
RALE: I don't -- I mean he was in the Bahamas and he was around the house. I'm not exactly sure about the timing end. Also, I saw some footage -- maybe it was on your show -- with him standing there talking to someone.
But I -- we talked to him a lot today. I don't recall talking to him when the police were there, though.
KING: Krista, was he questioned?
BARTH: I have no idea.
KING: We have a question from Maureen in Arlington, Virginia: "For a celebrity who didn't really do that much work, Anna Nicole seemed to have an awful lot of money to spend on luxury suites, limos, staff and even a yacht. Where did she get all the money? What's the value of her estate?"
RALE: You know, I'm not really at liberty to talk about the value nor do I really know right now. I mean obviously everybody knows that Anna Nicole has an interest -- or she has a judgment in the Marshall litigation. And in terms of all of her assets, I -- I just -- we haven't even really started to inventory that at this time. So I can't tell you.
KING: But as you revealed here, she does have a will, right?
RALE: She does have a will and, you know, Larry, I'd like to reveal it on your show -- another little tidbit, I think that everybody will see that Howard Stern is not a beneficiary of that will.
KING: He -- oh, so we can say that without a doubt?
RALE: Without a doubt.
KING: Howard K. Stern -- Howard Stern is not a beneficiary in Anna Nicole Smith's will.
RALE: That's correct.
KING: How long do you think...
KING: ... these proceedings are going to -- how are they going to -- how long are they going to go, Krista?
BARTH: Well, Larry, it's really hard to say. I don't know what this judge's plan is going forward. You know, we've kind of muddied the waters a little here with Mr. Birkhead's lawyers. I'm not sure how they got here, but they got here and they're here and we're dealing with them and that is really slowing things down.
Mr. Toenstil (ph) and I are there on one really narrow issue. We've got through the issue that's going to get the first thing done, and that's the embalming. That's the most important thing for the preservation of Anna's body. And then, you know, the decision as to where she'll be laid to rest.
That's really the sole reason that the Florida court has any jurisdiction at all. If the judge chooses to go beyond that, that's really not my purview. People are, you know, getting lots of e-mails and everybody seems very upset that, you know, I'm somehow involved in this baby issue.
But I'm not involved. I care very much what happens to this little girl. I wish the best for her welfare, whatever that is determined to be down the road. But that's not my job.
KING: I got you.
BARTH: My job is simply to put Anna where she wants to be.
KING: Thank you both very much.
We'll be calling on you again. Kirsta Barth and Ron Rale.
A lot of people have been...
BARTH: Thank you.
RALE: Thanks, Larry.
KING: Thank you -- have been approaching Larry Birkhead and his lawyer, Debra Opri, about an interview. Opri responded to those requests today with this statement: "I believe this is a time for lawyers to do their work. This is not a time for photo-ops. I believe when the rulings come down, we'll have more than enough to say. Everyone please pray for Dannielynn. We are in the fight of our lives."
When we come back, we'll talk to the medical examiner and an attorney for Anna's mother.
Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our position is that as the national mother, that my client has the right and ability to bury her daughter in Texas with the rest of her family. That's all we're here on. It's mostly a legal issue. Whether or not the judge is going to allow testimony and by whom, well, that remains to be seen.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The reason I haven't disclosed this will is because we've got enough of a media circus around here. And everyone on national television and everyone sitting in this room is calling this baby some sort of golden ticket. And that is offensive and -- and ridiculous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Joining us from Nassau in the Bahamas is Jamal Davis.
He's the Bahamian attorney for Virgie Arthur, Anna Nicole Smith's mother.
Just so we understand something, you're representing her with regard to the custody of Dannielynn, not with regard to the burial, is that right, Jamal?
JAMAL DAVIS, BAHAMAS ATTORNEY FOR ANNA NICOLE'S ESTRANGED MOM, VIRGIE ARTHUR: That's right, Larry.
It's just pertaining to the guardianship and the custody.
KING: And when does that come up... DAVIS: I (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
KING: When does that come up in court?
DAVIS: This is going to be heard on the 22nd. That's next week, Thursday.
KING: If there is a DNA test and the DNA shows who is the father, wouldn't that supersede your client as to the rights to the baby?
DAVIS: Well, absolutely not, Larry. That would certainly have a substantial bearing on the case. But obviously, Larry, that's not the paramount consideration.
The paramount consideration in these types of cases is certainly the welfare of the child.
KING: Is anyone, to your knowledge, Jamal, representing the child?
DAVIS: At this point, Larry, I do have some information, but that has not been confirmed to met yet. What I mean to say is that it has -- I have not personally seen this representation, though I have been told that there is likely to be some sort of application on the child's -- on the father's behalf -- or the -- the other father's behalf.
KING: If there is a determination as to who is the father, Mr. X, do you expect the battle to come down between Mr. X and your client?
DAVIS: I -- yes, that's natural, Larry. That's the likely result.
KING: What is the -- well, what's the actual basis of your client's case?
In other words, she should have the baby because?
DAVIS: Larry, it's -- it's -- it's just as simple as that, that Miss. Arthur is the maternal grandmother of the child. I can say to you why Howard Stern should not be given or remain in custody of the child and it's simply that -- that have a regard to the lifestyle that himself, along with the deceased, respectively said, have lived.
When one looks at that, one can note for themself that this is not in an environment for any child, whether it be an infant or a child of 10 years, to be exposed to.
So there's any number of reasons, Larry, why I can say that the child should not be in the hands of Howard Stern.
As far as Miss. Arthur, I can safely say to you that having met with Miss. Arthur, I am confident that she is genuinely concerned about the welfare of the infant. She wishes to bridge the gap that has not existed with her and the infant from the five months of the existence of the infant.
KING: Thank you, Jamal Davis...
DAVIS: That (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
KING: OK. We're going to pick up more.
We'll have you back.
Bahamian attorney for Virgie Arthur.
Joining us now in West Palm Beach, Florida, is Dr. Joshua Perper.
Dr. Perper, the chief medical examiner for Broward County. He performed the autopsy.
And he's in charge of resolving what's called the medical puzzle of the cause of her death.
How close are we to that -- resolving that puzzle, doctor?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, BROWARD COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, we approach it at a fairly rapid pace because we received all the time additional information from various tests which we performed. And some of the tests, primary tests, from secondary tests.
So I think we are advancing at a very reasonable, fast speed.
KING: Had she undergone any weight loss surgery?
PERPER: Not that we could determine from the examination. And I -- I said that I'm not going to make any additional statements about her (AUDIO GAP).
KING: What are the swab...
KING: What are the swabs?
The judge ordered you to perform a buccal swab on Anna Nicole.
What is that?
PERPER: The judge agreed that we have enough testing material for DNA, but at the request of the party which requested an ordered swab. In other words, somebody to take a swab, an applicator, and swab the interior of the mouth for the presence of DNA. That's a normal, regular procedure.
KING: And how...
PERPER: And this way that we don't...
KING: Go ahead.
PERPER: It takes about...
KING: I'm sorry.
PERPER: It takes about five seconds to do. And we did it and we took several samples. And, also, we had a DNA consultant which was allowed by the judge and we permitted him to examine just all the samples which we collected. And he concluded that we have a satisfactory number of samples, that the chain of custody is adequate and that the samples are well protected and preserved.
KING: How long do those samples last?
PERPER: How long they can last?
PERPER: Some of them can last indefinitely.
KING: Why the order to embalm?
PERPER: Well, the order to embalm is because the judge didn't make a decision yet and it's unclear how long it's going to take time to make a decision who is the legal next of kin. And in the meantime, the body is going to be embalmed and basically can be buried with no problem once he makes his decision.
PERPER: We are going to have the embalming in our place because the judge agreed to our suggestion to have it in our place, because it's going to be less media hype and the body is going to be under our supervision.
KING: Where is the body now?
PERPER: The body now is in a locked refrigerator in the office of the medical examiner.
KING: Once a body is embalmed, does that mean it's forensically useless in terms of getting more information?
PERPER: No. That's not the case.
PERPER: But in this particular case, we believe that there is no need for more information from the body, because we have absolutely everything necessary. And we did a very vast array of testing and we preserved a great deal of material which we are going to use.
KING: Thank you.
Dr. Joshua Perper, chief medical examiner, Broward County, Florida.
When we come back, the bodyguard and trainer who says he could be Dannielynn's dad. He'll be here to talk about his and Anna's relationship.
Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PERPER: And once the samples are taken and the chain of custody is documented, those samples are put in a locked refrigerator under key. Nobody has this lock. The off -- the refrigerator is in a room. The room is in the medical examiner's office. The medical examiner's office was watched and kept under protection by the deputy sheriffs.
So this, in my opinion, is more than adequate safekeeping of evidence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: You were married young, right?
SMITH: I was married when I was 17.
KING: And divorced?
SMITH: Married when I was 17, had a baby when I was 18 and divorced when I was 19.
KING: Whatever happened to him?
SMITH: He's in his room somewhere in Texas.
KING: You ever hear from him? Do you see your son?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Joining us now here in Los Angeles, Alexander Denk. He's Anna Nicole Smith's former bodyguard and personal trainer. He said he could be the father of the baby.
And Cyrus Nownejad. He is the attorney for Alexander Denk.
How long, Alex, did you know Anna Nicole Smith?
ALEXANDER DENK, ANNA NICOLE'S FMR. BODYGUARD: Hi, Larry. I knew Anna Nicole Smith for approximately 5 1/2 years. I was first her chef on the show. Then I became her bodyguard and then later became her trainer, personal trainer because she wanted to get really in shape and healthy.
KING: Did you have a romantic relation throughout all that period?
DENK: We had a relationship -- intimate relationship off and on for the last 5 1/2 years.
KING: And you knew that she was seeing others?
DENK: Yes. I was not there 24 hours.
KING: So you think you might -- you could be the father?
CYRUS NOWNEJAD, ATTY. FOR ALEXANDER DENK: He thinks it is possible. We're not sure exactly on the...
KING: I mean, he had relations in the time period that he could be?
KING: No one knows who is the father until...
KING: ... you take the DNA.
What do you make of this whole thing?
DENK: You know, Larry, my opinion is this is a whole circus going on here. I wish Anna would watch -- wherever she is -- first of all, I wish she would be still alive. She's been dearly missed.
And I think whoever is going to get the child, the judge will rule what's in her best interest. I think what's best for the baby, that's what I think.
You know, I see all this allegations about the little kid is going to be on a diet. Anna just wanted to have a healthy baby. She was obese once, you know. That's why she got healthy and she lost all this weight. She trained.
KING: You liked her as a person, right?
DENK: She was of the nicest, kindest wonderful person. You know, nobody talks about the good stuff. I mean, she did so much for charity, for Make a Wish Foundation, for children, you know, who had one month to live, she took them to Disneyland. She did so much for the gay rights, for AIDS Foundation, for animal rights. I mean, nobody even mentioned anything. Just to mention a few.
KING: Cyrus, you were saying before we went on, that he can challenge the will, no matter what it says, right? Because he wants to raise the baby?
NOWNEJAD: Well, something to that effect.
KING: No matter who...
NOWNEJAD: It was her intent that whether he's the father or not, that he have a hand in raising the -- and caring for the child. That's what she... KING: She said that to you?
DENK: A lot of times we laid on the bed together, like when she was five months pregnant, and talked about it. I would say, Anna, the little kid needs a father, right?
No, I can raise her by myself.
I said, Anna, he needs a strong hand in the house here.
And she said -- she looked at me and said, what about you? I want you to make sure you're here for...
KING: And you would be willing to do that?
DENK: Definitely. This is half of Anna, really. You know, what you see. And this say beautiful kid.
NOWNEJAD: The reason Mr. Denk was around was because of -- obviously, she valued the personal training, his health, his attitude towards health. He trained her consistently. He was a symbol of protection. And she wanted a father figure of that nature, at least his influence at the very least to raise her child.
KING: What part in all of this do you play legally?
Does he go into court? Do you wait to see the DNA? Or does he submit a DNA, what?
NOWNEJAD: Well, we're going to wait and see what happens with the DNA testing. It is what it is.
KING: Supposing it tests and it's not Howard and it's not Larry and not the prince and not anyone we know. Then what? He comes forward?
NOWNEJAD: That's actually possible.
KING: Of course.
NOWNEJAD: It's actually possible. He's going to come forward and he wants to care for the baby one way or the other because those were her wishes upon death.
KING: What is this magazine? This is...
DENK: Anna gave me this.
KING: A fitness magazine?
DENK: Yes, it's a magazine where Anna -- she wrote me down here, can you read this?
Dear -- to my baby Alexander, I can't wait to have your baby. Love, Anna Nicole.
KING: That's what it says. Turn it around.
KING: To my baby, Alexander, I want to have your baby.
DENK: She wrote, actually, always Alexandria.
I would say, Anna, my name is Alexander. This is something between you and me, you know.
KING: And on the back, it says, "To Alexander, I love you, you are...
NOWNEJAD: My hero.
KING: ... my hero.
NOWNEJAD: He has lots of e-mails just before her death and throughout the relationship.
KING: This is an e-mail from her to you?
KING: What date?
This is in May of 2006.
"Hey, baby, miss you like crazy. Why don't you come and see me when you can e-mail or call? Call Howard for my numbers. I also have hot smoochy kisses and and e-mail love. Big kiss."
Do you know Howard well?
DENK: Yes, I know Howard very well. And to be honest, people making these allegations about him. And Howard is one of the nicest guys I've ever met. He was there for her for 15 years. And, you know, when Anna -- if she wouldn't like to have Howard there, she could have said, "No, I don't like him" and got somebody else. But no, she was there and Howard was there for Daniel. He did so much for Daniel. You know, he treated him like a son.
KING: Could he be the father?
DENK: Of course. Everything is possible, you know. Anna was a free spirit. Everybody loved her. She was just a simple Texas girl.
KING: We'll take in touch with you, Alex.
DENK: Thank you.
NOWNEJAD: It's been a pleasure.
KING: Thank you so much.
NOWNEJAD: Thank you.
KING: Alexander Denk and Cyrus Nownejad. Did I pronounce that right?
KING: Nownejad, the attorney. Alexander, the former bodyguard and personal trainer.
Still ahead, Anna Nicole Smith's friend of many of many years, Jackie Hatten. She's got a lot to say about the recent headlines this case has made. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: You're glad you're voluptuous?
SMITH: I'm very glad now. I'm very glad now I'm voluptuous.
KING: There were times you weren't.
SMITH: There was times when I was -- wanted to diet and was really depressed about my weight. But since the "Playboy" and all of the things that happened, I just love my weight now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: A return visit now from Jackie Hatten, a close friend of Anna Nicole Smith's. She says Anna Nicole wanted her to be godmother to both Daniel and Dannielynn.
And you want custody of her remains. Why?
JACKIE HATTEN, ANNA NICOLE'S FRIEND: I want custody of her remains?
KING: That's what it says.
HATTEN: No, I want...
KING: Who do you think...
HATTEN: I want Virgie to have custody. It's her daughter. She should have the right to bury her daughter with dignity.
KING: You want her to have...
HATTEN: Yes, Virgie is her mother. She came out of her belly. I think she should have the right to...
KING: What about if the real father is found?
HATTEN: If the real father is found, that still doesn't give them the right to bury Anna. Anna was not married to anyone when she died. She was married her late husband and she wanted to be buried next to her late husband and Daniel. Bahamas was not the place she planned on burying Daniel. She did not know Daniel was going to die at 20 years old in the middle of a hospital room.
KING: Do you agree, Jackie, you have to agree no one knows who the father is?
KING: We'll never know until the DNA test.
HATTEN: Until the DNA. That's what's going to tell the truth.
KING: So all this speculation is all that, just speculation.
KING: Why then are you so down on Howard Stern?
HATTEN: Because I've seen him...
KING: I mean, we heard the bodyguard say that he's been nothing but good to her for 15 years.
HATTEN: Please. Are you kidding me?
KING: You think the bodyguard would lie? Why would he lie?
HATTEN: If they're on the take, if they're being paid. End of story.
KING: You think Howard Stern is paying the bodyguard, who also says he might be the father?
HATTEN: I'm saying he pays his check at the end of the day, doesn't he?
KING: Well, there's nobody to bodyguard anymore, right?
HATTEN: Well, not anymore, unfortunately. And that's the whole thing. People that are paid -- if you make money off of my friend, then you are a worker and you see her as your paycheck.
KING: Last time when you were on, the guest who followed you said that you were not the friend you said you were. You weren't friends that long, and people who knew her early on said they never knew you.
HATTEN: How funny that I never knew her. I never even knew she had -- he had a sister, that Howard Stern had a sister. And shame on her for saying that she spent two years of her life on that show or watching her become, like, dry-humped by Howard K. Stern and making -- while she's out of her gourd on drugs that he shoveled her, and making her drink out of a bottle, a wine bottle like a wino.
And I have to -- I was the one that had to hear Danny come home and cry, because now this whole world was exposed to the kids at school. And he had to deal with what they said. You know, it's bad enough that he kept them at school and nobody knew, but then they had to view it on TV? Danny was the type of child, he got straight A's and he never brought anyone home for that fact that he didn't want them to expose this. And then his mother became a cash cow on television because of Howard.
KING: You blame Howard and not Anna?
HATTEN: Yes, I blame Howard, because Anna had voiced to me numerous occasions and to my brother and other people that she wanted to get clean. And also to Peter Nygard, a friend of ours for 15 years, the person that I stayed on the compound in Bahamas with. He knows she was trying to get clean.
She reached out to him in her dying -- before her dying day, saying that she was looking for me and I wasn't around. And I had already gone home. And he wanted -- she wanted to go to the compound. He said yes. And when he called back, Howard intercepted the phone call and then he never heard from her again.
KING: She's gone now. Why are you so wrapped up emotionally?
HATTEN: Because that's my friend for so long. If you lose someone that's like a sister to you, and you know that someone had premeditated something because you were able to -- I'm not psychic. I watched. I watched things happen, and I was able to tell people what I had seen. And hoping someone would do something. I'm not a psychic. Do you know? I just paid attention. I just cared.
KING: Jackie Hatten will remain with us. We'll be joined by Harvey Levin, the managing editor of tmz.com. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SMITH: Am I dating someone?
SMITH: Not yet. But I'm looking forward to it.
KING: Do you want to settle down? Would you want to get married again?
SMITH: I do want to get married again, but I want to carry on with my career for a few years before I think of marriage. But I do want to get married again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: He's in the rainforest in Brazil. He's Anderson Cooper. He'll host "AC 360" at the top of the hour. How is it going?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: It's going well, Larry. Tonight, we're going to take you deep inside the rainforest. A remote tribe where we have spent the last 24 hours or so. It is a tribe few outsiders ever visit. They're called the Craho (ph), and they're fighting tooth and nail to protect their part of the Amazon rainforest. They say illegal loggers are coming in, farmers are coming in trying to use their land. Every day they go out on patrol. And on "360" tonight, we'll take you out on patrol, them with bows and arrows, trying to keep people off their land and protect their part of this virgin rainforest. All that and more and the day's top stories, Larry, at 10:00.
KING: Thanks, Anderson. Doing a great job. Anderson Cooper. He is in the Amazon, at the Amazon in Brazil. And that's at the top of the hour, 10:00 Eastern, 7:00 Pacific.
Jackie Hatten, the close friend of Anna Nicole, remains. We're joined by our friend Harvey Levin, the managing editor of tmz.com.
Tmz.com has posted a letter you received from Jackie's imprisoned brother, Mark, "Hollywood" Hatten, as they call him, in connection with Anna Nicole and Dannielynn. What does it say?
HARVEY LEVIN, TMZ.COM: Well, just when you think it couldn't get weirder. I open a letter today from a prison in California, and Mark Hatten says he could be the father of this baby. And he did have a relationship, for sure, with Anna Nicole. That's documented. And he was prosecuted after they broke up for making terrorist threats against her. And he said in the letter, Anna Nicole once asked for a sperm sample from him. Very romantic. And said that -- she said, look, I may want to be artificially inseminated. And he said he believes he could be the father. He's asking for a DNA sample.
What is interesting about it, Larry, is an article is going to come out in a magazine next week in which the author says he has an audiotape of Anna Nicole actually talking about being artificially inseminated. So it is crazy.
KING: Can you back that up, Jackie?
KING: All that he just said is true?
HATTEN: Yes. Everything is true. It is probably highly unlikely that it is my brother's, because of the years and the time that had passed and she was in a relationship with Larry Birkhead, but it is not impossible. Anything is possible.
KING: How long is he in jail for?
HATTEN: He has served six years. He has one more to go.
KING: He committed a terrorist act?
HATTEN: He did not commit it. That's what he's basically convicted for, but Howard K. Stern -- my brother broke up with her because Howard kept walking in on them in the bedroom while they were having intercourse. My brother said, respect me, respect my girl, or I'm out of here, basically. It's him or me. And he made a stand to go ahead and leave and come back to get a few of his things. KING: And what was...
HATTEN: When he came back, Howard -- he said I'm coming to pack my things. Howard called 911 and said he's packing a gun, it's a terrorist -- it's a stalker.
KING: He got seven years?
HATTEN: Seven years, yes.
LEVIN: Well, it was that and he was convicted also...
HATTEN: Of assault.
LEVIN: ... of beating up a neighbor.
HATTEN: Howard called the neighbor and said there is a stalker in the backyard, knowing good and well my brother lived there for two years, and the guy brought mace. My brother fought his way out of it, and that's what happened.
KING: Harvey, could it get any weirder?
LEVIN: You know, I'm guessing yes.
LEVIN: Because it's just -- you know, every single day something else happens. I mean, now there is a doctor involved in the middle of this mess. I mean, it is just getting twisted.
KING: You also posted, Harvey, documents indicating that at eight months pregnant, Anna Nicole used two doctors to obtain methadone and Demerol, and you should note that you can't prove that, right?
LEVIN: Well, I can't prove that she took it, for sure. But what I can tell you is we obtained prescriptions and air bill numbers -- and I can tell you that there is a Dr. Kapur (ph) in Los Angeles -- when she was eight months pregnant, 13 days from giving birth, Dr. Kapur prescribed methadone for her under an alias. She used the name Michelle Chase. And he prescribed it under the alias. A pharmacy sent it over to the Bahamas. And the medical board is now investigating that as of today.
KING: Jackie, were you in touch with her throughout her pregnancy?
HATTEN: Yes. Yes. And she told me it was Larry's.
KING: I know that, but what do you make of all this methadone and Demerol?
LEVIN: If I may... HATTEN: She said she wanted to get clean. She did say she expressed to me she wanted to get clean, but it was very hard with Howard around. That's why she was supposedly going -- that's why she was supposedly going to the Bahamas, partially. Howard wanted her to get away from Larry Birkhead, and she was like, OK, well, if I do that, I will be in the Bahamas, maybe I can detox and have someone...
LEVIN: And Birkhead is the one who ended his relationship with her because he said that she kept using methadone and wouldn't stop it.
KING: OK. We'll be right back with Jackie Hatten and Harvey Levin. Don't go away.
KING: We're back with Jackie Hatten and Harvey Levin. It should be understand that Jackie has said some things tonight about Howard Stern that we of course can't qualify, but it's based on her own experiences and hers alone. So the statements are hers alone.
Before we get back with Jackie and Harvey, we sent out our King Cam to go out on the streets and ask the public why they think this case has such appeal. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anna Nicole who?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not necessarily interested in Anna Nicole Smith's story, but I'm curious as to what caused her death.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think Anna Nicole is a bit of an oddity to begin with.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because she was always in the news. Maybe for the wrong reasons, but she was always there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is typical of everything that is American, as far as it's big, it's bold, it is in your face.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm concerned about that poor child. Who is going to look after it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're going to drag it out as much as possible. That's exactly what you're going to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Harvey, tmz has posted an affidavit from a woman who was employed as a nanny for Anna Nicole's baby. And tell us about that document and its contents. LEVIN: Well, it was written in December, Larry, and it was written by this woman, who was on board shortly before the baby was born and after.
Among other things, she is saying that Anna Nicole ordered her to underfeed the baby so the baby could be -- and I'll give you the quote -- "sexy." She also said that Anna Nicole tried committing suicide twice. Once by taking sleeping medication, another time in a swimming pool. And I think you had Mark Steines on when he talked about the swimming pool, which is interesting, because she talked about this two months ago.
She also says that Howard Stern said to her, said to Anna Nicole after pulling her out of the pool, "if you die, I'm going to jail." Now, I don't know what that means, but it is an odd statement.
HATTEN: It means he's guilty. Because he knows it and he says it.
KING: You think that. It could mean a million things.
HATTEN: This is true, but if he's saying it...
KING: He means he might be accused.
HATTEN: Right. If he's saying it, he's worried about it for some reason.
KING: But why did she have such -- why -- if this was so terrible, why did she stay with him so long?
HATTEN: He drugs her up. I've seen him drug her up.
KING: You mean she was kept like a prisoner...
HATTEN: Right. If you're sedated, you're a lot less willing to stand up for yourself and fight for your rights.
KING: What do you get out of keeping someone drugged up 24 hours? What do you get out of it?
HATTEN: Money. Because as soon as she's got a show, let's get up, Anna, show time, let's go. And then all of a sudden, it's after the show, right back into the...
KING: Has he become the villain in this?
LEVIN: Well, certainly in..
KING: In denying the DNA.
LEVIN: Well, yes, I think that's the beginning and the end of it. I mean, there is this overlay, Larry, of methadone, where Daniel died of methadone -- and we talked about this before, one witness is going to testify that Howard K. Stern gave this kid methadone. And that will be -- he's going to testify to that at the coroner's hearing next month. So that's one thing. And now you have methadone in Anna Nicole's house.
So it's methadone, and I think the fact, like you said, he is not allowing this DNA test to conclusively show who is the father.
KING: The circumstances of the boy's death, as someone said, you know anyone 21 years old who died of natural causes? I don't know anyone.
LEVIN: Well, this was not natural causes. I mean, the boy died because...
LEVIN: It was a combination of anti-depressants and methadone in his system. So methadone was a factor in his death.
KING: That will kill you if you have methadone and anti- depressants.
LEVIN: Well, there are certain combinations of drugs and certain combinations can be lethal. And -- at least according to the coroner's office in the Bahamas, that was a lethal combination.
HATTEN: Exactly. And there is 20 times the lethal dosage of those drugs in his system, 20.
KING: This little girl could become a poor little rich girl, right? She could be dragged into court. She could have no life.
LEVIN: I don't think, you know -- I have a hunch on how this is going to end in terms of the DNA.
KING: Yeah, what's the hunch?
LEVIN: The hunch is that Larry Birkhead is the father. But I don't think it will be as easy as a DNA test coming in and everybody packing up and going home. I think it is going to be a long, protracted, bitter battle.
HATTEN: And she can...
KING: But the DNA, that is final, though, isn't it?
LEVIN: You know, it's final, but in the world of Anna Nicole Smith, you know, who is going to give up easily?
HATTEN: Exactly. And you say she can grow up to be a poor little rich girl, that is if she gets the right to grow up. If Howard K. Stern is going crazy because he thinks he's going to go down for this crime, these heinous crimes that in my opinion, I believe he committed, then what stops him from turning the, you know, the gun on himself or her? For that matter, most people when they know they're going down for something, they'll take anybody out with them so that nobody can have them. Do you know what I'm saying? And that's the scariest part to me, that my god daughter is with some man that has not proven that he's the DNA father, and basically taken her away from everybody in the world that cares about her, like her grandmother, like myself, like anyone else in the family.
KING: Normally, wouldn't a court in this case place the baby in some sort of baby center, a foster care?
HATTEN: Right. Child social services.
KING: Until all things are determined?
LEVIN: Well, remember, Howard K. Stern is listed as the father on the birth certificate. And that's...
KING: Then he has the right...
LEVIN: It has got to account for something. And it does, legally.
HATTEN: Legally, because he's a lawyer and he knew how to get around everything. He didn't have any DNA proof. He just said he was the dad, and in the Bahamas, that's the law. OK, you're the dad, sure.
KING: Anything you like about him, Jackie?
HATTEN: He's an evil, evil man. He's an evil, evil man. And I pray to God that he goes to jail for these horrific crimes.
KING: By the way, Howard K. Stern has been on this show before. Has an open invitation to return anytime. He can contact us, and we'll give him the full length of time as he might request. That is only fair, because we're a fair show.
Harvey, you think it is going to take a long time before this is resolved?
LEVIN: Yes. I mean, I just think there are so many battles brewing here that I just don't see one judgment making everything right. I mean, I think there will be judgments, but I think there will be fights.
KING: Do you keep in touch with your brother?
HATTEN: I do. He's been calling quite regularly. I just haven't been home to speak with him. But he does voice concern for Anna Nicole's body, that he hopes -- and I hope as well -- that Virgie does get to bury her daughter, you know, with dignity, and that Howard does not sell any more pictures of her, especially after she's dead, or sell the body after that, you know. He will stop at nothing, in my opinion, from what I have witnessed.
KING: When does your brother get out?
HATTEN: He has one more year left to serve. And he obviously feels like he's in there for, you know...
KING: Wrong reasons.
HATTEN: Rail -- he was railroaded.
KING: Thank you all very much. Thank you, Jackie.
HATTEN: And I hope that he gets out safely.
KING: Thank you. Jackie Hatten and Harvey Levin, the managing editor of tmz.com. What is he going to come up with tomorrow? You never know with tmz.com.
That's it for tonight. We'll have lots more on this tomorrow night. Right now, let's head to Brazil, the rainforest, Anderson Cooper and "AC 360." Anderson.
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