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Nancy Grace

Climbers Rescued on Mt. Hood; Legal Showdown Looms Over Anna Nicole`s Burial

Aired February 19, 2007 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Live to treacherous Mt. Hood, Oregon, three climbers stranded at nearly 10,000 feet after plummeting over a ledge, found tonight alive. Two women, one man survive huddled inside a cave carved out of hardened snow, huddled onto their Labrador retriever dog. Rescuers spite (ph) Mt. Hood`s whiteout conditions, gale force winds up to 100 MPH, temperatures freezing, the very same mountain where just two months ago, the lives of three American men were claimed, one stranded and found dead, two never recovered.
What are the legal implications of today`s dangerous rescue effort?

And tonight, the clock is ticking, ticking down to another legal battle over the death of covergirl Anna Nicole Smith, the superstar model`s mother, boyfriend/lawyer, and lover in a legal triangle and forced into the same room together for the first time ever. Whoa! Did I say a room? It`s a courtroom, people, 0930 tomorrow morning. Family, legal executors claiming Smith`s body and custody of her 5-month-old baby girl. And we learn for the first time Anna Nicole Smith may have already been dead before leaving for the hospital.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re finally going to get a chance to see Howard K. Stern in person for the very first time since Anna Nicole died. In a dramatic decision, a Ft. Lauderdale judge ordered Stern to leave the Bahamas and Anna Nicole`s baby and be there in person when court reconvenes Tuesday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As I indicated to Your Honor yesterday, it`s just not possible. He cannot leave this baby right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m making the decision. He`s going to come here Tuesday morning. The court rules that he be here physically present.

VIRGIE ARTHUR, ANNA NICOLE`S MOTHER: Vickie Lynn, you know I love you. Always have. And be very careful about who you hang around with because you may be next.

HOWARD K. STERN, ANNA NICOLE`S LAWYER/LOVER: Anna and I have been in a relationship and we love each other, and it`s been going on for a very long time. And because of my relationship as her lawyer, we felt that it was best to keep everything hidden, and we`ve actually done a pretty good job of that. LARRY BIRKHEAD, ANNA NICOLE`S FORMER BOYFRIEND: He`s mixed up in his own lies, but I am going to defend myself. And they can say that I`m out for 15 minutes of fame, but I`m really out for a lifetime of fatherhood. And I`m going to keep talking until they give me my daughter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. First, search and rescue on Oregon`s Mt. Hood.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They set out to summit. They`d stayed in a snow cave on Illumination Rock. And their plan was to summit. And once the weather turned bad, they decided to turn back around. And that`s when they got into trouble. When they got split up from their group, one of the members in the group had an altimeter, and it wasn`t with the three people that were on their way down, so -- and if I believe correctly, I don`t think they had a GPS with them, either. So they had traveled down the mountain, I would say in the best hopes of trying to find their way back down.

The mountain`s very tricky when you go down. You start walking downhill and you think you`re going in the right direction, and you actually end up in either Zigzag (ph) Canyon or White River Canyon. So most of our search and rescues do end up kind of in the same areas just because of the shape of the mountain and the way it feels like you`re going down in a whiteout, and you`re actually not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The way the conditions are, we still have whiteout conditions up there. We have 40-mile-an-hour winds. And there`s still an avalanche danger. The way they got in is not the way they`re going to come out because of the avalanche danger. They`re going to be coming down the east side of the White River Canyon.

So it has been a group effort on everybody`s part. We have not got them down yet, obviously. It will probably take anywhere from five to seven hours to get them off the mountain. And during that time, we`re going to try and get a Snowcat up as far as we possibly can. They will be coming down at the White River Canyon Snow Park.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Right now, we go live to Mt. Hood. Standing by, CNN`s Chris Lawrence. Chris, what`s happening right now?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nancy, good news, the best news possible. Rescue teams have brought down the last three climbers from the mountain and their Labrador retriever. The three climbers and the lab are all safe. They`re being evaluated right now. One may be taken to the hospital for further treatment, but nothing life-threatening. The best news possible, considering all that they`ve been through.

GRACE: Back to Chris Lawrence. Chris, how did they get in this dilemma to start with?

LAWRENCE: Nancy, they were climbing the mountain, a team of eight. They got up to a little over 8,000 feet. Bad weather really set in quickly, the kind of weather you can see right here, whiteout conditions, wind blowing, bitter cold. They started to turn around, and three got cut off. And we`re told now that the dog, the black lab, was actually attached to a rope at the time with the three. So when they slid off that ledge and it slipped down about 100 to 150 feet below the rest of the team, the Labrador retriever went with them.

Overnight, they huddled together, tried to stay warm and made those cell phone calls periodically to let people know they were OK. But the rescue teams say the thing that saved their life was the fact that they had these mountain rescue locators, these electronic signals that sent out a ping, and at least get rescue teams in the specific area where they are.

GRACE: Chris, what I don`t understand is, two months ago, we lost American lives on Mt. Hood, and it got to a point where you couldn`t pick up their cell phone signal. Why is it different this time?

LAWRENCE: Well, because -- a funny thing -- good -- very good question because what they`re telling us is that if they were just going by cell phone signal, those cell phone signals were placing them at around 5,400 feet up the mountain. They were well above that. So if they were just going by cell phone signal, they would have been looking in the wrong place. But they had these specific almost GPS locators that allowed them to get very specifically where they are.

Now, no state requires climbers to carry them. But right now, some of the Oregon legislators are saying, with everything that`s been going on, they`re proposing legislation that would make it mandatory for climbers to carry them above 10,000 feet. Some of the climbers we spoke with say you can`t legislate out the thrill and the adrenaline rush of the sport. They say it is a good idea to carry them. They say they don`t want to be forced to carry them.

GRACE: Chris Lawrence, I`ve been trying since 1984 to make people not drink and drive. You really think we can make mountain climbers wear a mountain rescue locator? I wish you a lot of luck on that.

But tell me about the conditions where you are right now and how did they affect this really miraculous rescue?

LAWRENCE: Well, I can tell, you know, we`re at about 6,000 feet elevation, and it is bitter, bitter cold. And these wind gusts -- you know, when there`s so much snow and so much ice blowing around out here, it`s like metal when it hits your skin. It`s like little daggers that just jab into you. And if you`re out and exposed, you just cannot survive very long like that.

They were fortunate to find a rock. They were not able to even dig out a snow cave, but they were able to get some sort of shelter behind a rock. And having the three of them together with the proper equipment, with the lab, huddling together, using their body heat to stay warm, and the fact that the weather wasn`t quite as bad -- as bad as it looks, it wasn`t quite as bad as it was a couple of months ago with those three climbers back in December -- and the fact that they had these GPS locators, that meant that they never stayed out in this weather nearly as long as those climbers did back in December.

GRACE: We`re about to take your calls. We are being joined by a CNN correspondent live on Mt. Hood. Chris Lawrence is with us. Chris, did I understand this correctly, that they were all tied together with ropes, so when one went over the edge, they all went?

LAWRENCE: That`s how I understand it, that the three somehow became separated from the other five and that they slipped over this ledge, basically, all three tied together. And one of the five said earlier today that he thought at that time that the lab, who had been running freely -- they said as they were going up the mountain, they would let the lab just kind of run freely and he`d look back every now and then, make sure they were OK, and he was going up under his own power.

But at some point, when the weather got really bad, they tied the lab in with the rest of them so he wouldn`t get lost. But he was tied in with that group of three. So when they went over the ledge, the lab went over, as well. But again, the best news possible, the lab`s OK, the three are OK.

But boy, when you stand out here for more than five, ten minutes and feel this weather, it`s hard to believe what they went through huddled up together overnight.

GRACE: Joining us live there on Mt. Hood, CNN`s Chris Lawrence.

Out to the lines, Mike in California. Hi, Mike.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call. And I just love your work.

GRACE: Sure, dear. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there something extra dangerous about this mountain? Why is someone getting kidnapped -- or missing, rather, all the time?

GRACE: You know what? That`s a fantastic question because you`d think, Mike in California, after all the coverage of Mt. Hood back in December, where three Americans lost their lives, people wouldn`t be rushing up to the top of Mt. Hood under these gale conditions.

Out to you. Tim Hohl is with us. He`s a reporter with 860 KPAM. Tell me about Mt. Hood, Tim.

TIM HOHL, AM 860 KPAM: Well, let me tell you, these eight headed up the mountain on Saturday, which was a beautiful, gorgeous day here. And the weather came in suddenly and I think surprised them. But for all intents and purposes, when they headed up the mountain, like thousands of people do every year, the weather was beautiful. They planned to spend the night up, and then they got caught by the weather coming down.

But Mt. Hood is, according to a lot of the mountain climbers, the second most climbed mountain in the world, next to Mt. Fuji in Japan. And this is something -- it`s not something people climb a lot in the wintertime, although they do. But you get a lot of folks coming here to Mt. Hood to try to go to the top. And even the rescuers said they -- on their own personal time, climb in the wintertime. They say winter climbing is dangerous, but so is winter driving. And there is a calculated risk, but if you go with a mountain locator unit, like these folks did, it makes the job that much easier for the rescuers.

GRACE: Joining us, Ken Reeves, senior meteorologist with Accuweather.com. Explain, Ken, the conditions.

KEN REEVES, SENIOR METEOROLOGIST, ACCUWEATHER.COM: ... as we heard, it definitely was a tranquil start to the weekend. In fact, you can see on the satellite picture, which goes all the way back to Saturday, that it certainly is showing up that a lot of the area was fairly clear. And it was about 38 degrees, partly sunny. There was a bit of a wind up on the mountain, about 15, 25 miles an hour, but that`s not unusual at that kind of elevation. But you can see there really wasn`t much until later on in the weekend here.

And the moisture that was moving through as well, a lot of rain and snow, rain at lower elevations, snow at higher elevations, but not nearly the amount of snow as we saw earlier in the season, when we had the other deaths on the mountain, as well. So they were kind of lucky in that there was only about six to ten inches of snow.

But the winds were ferocious. In fact, if you look at where Mt. Hood is actually located, the elevation at the top is about 11,000. That`s what they were heading for. The accident was a couple thousand feet below that, as well. And they get 133 inches of snow a year.

But essentially, the timeline -- this is a picture of it. It was a tranquil Saturday. The snow began on Sunday. The wind picked up to about 70 miles an hour on Monday morning, and that really caused a lot of problems. So thank goodness they found some shelter.

GRACE: Let`s go back out to the lines. Nancy in North Carolina. Hi, Nancy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello?

GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to tell you, I really love you. You`re a great person. You find all the information. I need to know that if -- these climbers that just were found, if they were more well equipped than the other ones that were lost?

GRACE: Excellent question. And thank you for the compliment. Out to you, Greg Davenport, survivalist expert. Thank you for being with us again, Greg. How were these people prepared, as opposed to those who lost their lives in December, three people dead, Mt. Hood, three Americans?

GREG DAVENPORT, SURVIVALIST: Yes, I remember that story. And you know, I don`t know if there`s any difference in the preparation or not because there were sleeping bags with the three back in December, just like there are with this group here.

I think the key here was, is that rescue was able to get to them relatively soon and that they took care of their needs. Number one, they avoided exposure injuries by using their sleeping bags, cuddling together getting out of the wind. And number two, they probably stayed hydrated by drinking the water they had. And then they were able to signal for help using that personal locator beacon and also their cell phone.

So I think the key difference was probably the fact that the rescuers were able to get into them in a decent amount of time.

GRACE: And speaking of the rescuers, joining us now, Russell Gubele, command officer at the Mt. Wave search and rescue. It`s a miracle, a far cry from what happened back in December with the three Americans losing their lives. Agreed, Russell?

RUSSELL GUBELE, COMMAND OFFICER, MT. WAVE SEARCH AND RESCUE: Agreed, Nancy.

GRACE: And what do you attribute the difference to?

GUBELE: Well, just like the other gentleman said, we were able to get in there and get to them quickly.

GRACE: And to you, Mike Brooks. I see two differences. Number one, the mountain rescue locator that they happened to have, the others did not have. And number two, Miss Velvet (ph), the dog.

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Absolutely. And the dog was there to help keep them warm. But I`ll tell you, the mountain road (ph) locator unit, it -- as someone said before, it helps take the search out of search and rescue. They were able to find out exactly where they were, Able to have communication with them because their cell phones did work well on the mountain. And I think that was the difference this time, compared to what happened in the disaster in December.

GRACE: Out to Jamie in Nebraska. Hi, Jamie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you doing?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, this is the second time this has happened, and I`m curious, who foots the bill for all this extra search and rescue?

GRACE: Owie! Lot of people got to have the same question, Jamie. Out to you, Tim Hohl. He`s a reporter with AM 860 KPAM. He joined us for our last Mt. Hood story, this one with a miraculous ending, as opposed to last time. Tim, who is paying the bill?

HOHL: Well, the Clackamas County sheriff`s office, which is the primary search and rescue agency, handles the bills for the search and rescue coordinator. But you have to keep in mind that for most of these rescue operations, like the one in December and like the one today, most of the folks that are up there would be -- Portland Mountain Rescue and such - - are volunteers. They are volunteering their time. But the administrative costs do fall to the sheriff`s office, for the most part.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had underestimated the distance we`d covered. We had started -- our plan was to head from (INAUDIBLE) lift and hang a right and go down to the lodge. We overestimated -- or underestimated how far we`d traveled and actually passed it somewhere along the way and (INAUDIBLE) see it in the conditions. Visibility was maybe -- I mean, I could make out -- I could make out the lead climber (INAUDIBLE) I was at the end of the rope. So it was pretty -- you had no visual references around you to determine if you were going up or down, if there was a bump in front of you or a ledge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When someone wants to leave their entire state to one person, like Anna did to her son Daniel, usually there`s a follow-up paragraph that says, In the event he predeceases me, then all of my assets will go to somebody else. This will does not say that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So where does that leave Dannielynn and companion Howard K. Stern, one of four men still playing the game of "Who`s your daddy?"

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: All of a sudden, all the litigants are being forced into a room together. That`s a courtroom, as a matter of fact. I`m talking about Anna Nicole Smith, mother Virgie Arthur, her lawyer/husband Howard K. Stern and the alleged biological father of her 5-month-old baby, Larry Birkhead. It`s all set to go down 0930 tomorrow morning.

Out to Robert Santiago with "The Miami Herald." What`s the latest, Robert? Do I have Robert with me, Elizabeth?

ROBERT SANTIAGO, "MIAMI HERALD": I`m sorry?

GRACE: There you go. Hey, Robert, what`s the latest?

SANTIAGO: OK. Well, the latest is tomorrow morning, it`s high noon in the court`s custody showdown for Anna Nicole Smith`s body. It`s -- Howard K. Stern is going to be appearing for the first time, along with his team of lawyers. And Virgie Arthur and Larry Birkhead will have their team of lawyers. One side wants Anna Nicole buried in the Bahamas and other wants Anna Nicole buried in Texas.

GRACE: Well, put. Jean Casarez, what can you add?

JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Well, the legal issue tomorrow in the hearing -- and this is in probate court here in Florida. But the legal issue is, who has the right, under Florida law, to legally take the body of Anna Nicole Smith for proper burial?

GRACE: Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You have claimed that you are, in fact, the father of 5-month- old Dannielynn, is that true?

PRINCE FREDERICK VON ANHALT, ZSA ZSA GABOR`S HUSBAND: Well, I didn`t claim. I only said, you know, there`s a court ruling now, and two guys claim they are the father. And I don`t think it`s true.

GRACE: Mr. Denk, is it true that you have stated you think you might be the father of Dannielynn?

ALEXANDER DENK, SMITH`S FORMER BODYGUARD: I said everything is possible.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My client is the father of Dannielynn Marshall Stern. There is a proceeding to overturn a legal presumption. My client`s on the birth certificate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have one person to represent, and that`s Larry Birkhead. I have one life to save, and that`s Dannielynn. And that`s my mission. So it`s a battle and we are waging it, and Howard K. Stern, he`d better duck because I`m coming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Back out to you, Jean Casarez. Why are all the parties -- not just their lawyers, but why are the parties themselves ordered to the courtroom? Is there going to be testamentary evidence?

CASAREZ: Yes, there is, on both sides. First of all, Howard K. Stern was ordered by the judge to be in person in the Florida court tomorrow morning. Larry Birkhead is set to testify for Virgie Arthur. Now, we don`t know exactly if it`s going to be in person or if it`s going to be via telephone from California. But Virgie Arthur, of course, has been in the courtroom -- that`s Anna Nicole`s mother -- from the beginning.

GRACE: And also, we learned that the embalming has finally taken place. Out to Dr. Joshua Perper, the chief medical examiner there in Broward County. Dr. Perper, it`s an honor to have you on the show tonight. Explain to us the security precautions taken by you and your office -- you are the chief medical examiner in charge of that office -- to ensure her privacy.

DR. JOSHUA PERPER, BROWARD COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, the security measure includes the station of deputy sheriff both in the front and in the back of the office. In addition to that, the body is inside a plastic bag which is sealed inside a cage of wire, which is sealed, and locked. And it`s inside a refrigerator which is also locked. So virtually, there`s no access to the body.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to put to rest this body. And that`s why we`re moving so quickly. I want her to have the peace and tranquility that she deserves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. Showdown in court tomorrow morning 0930. All the parties have to be there in person. Not just their lawyers, but them, Larry Birkhead, Howard K. Stern and Virgie Arthur, all battling not only over Anna Nicole Smith`s corpse but her baby, as well.

I want to go back out to Dr. Joshua Perper, the chief medical examiner there in Florida. Dr. Perper, you were telling us about the precautions you had taken during the embalming process. That happened on Saturday, correct?

PERPER: No, those precautions are permanent as long as we have the body in our office.

GRACE: Oh, I mean the embalming. Was that on Saturday?

PERPER: Yes. What happened is the funeral home which was initially approved by the judge, the embalmer refused to sign the confidentiality agreement. And therefore, the guardian ad litem for the child had found another funeral home. This was the Acorn (ph) Funeral Home in Jupiter, Florida. And those embalmers came with a document signed. They signed it again and had their signature notarized. And they proceeded on Saturday morning with the embalming, which was, by the way, excellent.

GRACE: Dr. Perper, I understand that a degree of deterioration of the body has already taken place. What is that?

PERPER: Well, at that time, when they started the embalming, the deterioration process was very mild. We had been concerned if it had been taken another week. But the way it was, the embalming came out to be very successful. So there`s really no concern, and the body is going to be viewed with no problem.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The will referred to only Daniel and also carried a strange clause saying, quote, "I have intentionally omitted to provide for my spouse and other heirs, including future spouses and children." While that language appears to exclude Anna Nicole`s 5-month-old daughter Dannielynn from any inheritance, that`s not a given.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just because that baby isn`t named in the will, the law isn`t going to cut that child out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And just because Howard K. Stern was named in the will, doesn`t mean he should expect a windfall.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She doesn`t provide for him as a beneficiary in the will, only as the executor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. Tomorrow morning, all parties arrive in a courtroom, actually, in a room together for the first time. And, of course, it`s by court order.

Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us, John Burris out of the California jurisdiction, Stacy Schneider out of the New York jurisdiction. Welcome, friends.

To you first, John Burris. When we`re deciding DNA, a lot of people are speculating, legal eagles speculating that Anna Nicole Smith, Howard Stern moved to the Bahamas to avoid a DNA test. But think about it, John. Think about it. They moved down there shortly after the U.S. Supreme Court told them that they could battle for her former husband`s millions, $475 million. What about a tax refuge, John?

JOHN BURRIS, FMR. PROSECUTOR, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, I think there`s probably more than one reason they moved there, certainly. And it may not have been just because of the baby, because of that, but that doesn`t quite go to the question here now as to what right, if any, does the court have in order to direct sort of the issue around the legitimacy of the child? That is to say, who is going to be the father?

And I think that the Bahamas law itself is going to control what happens to who that father`s going to be and what rights there are to it. So I think that the judge may be overstepping his bounds, to the extent that he has tried to give orders that direct what happens to that child.

Of course, he has the body of Anna Nicole Smith, and he can make a decision based upon that. But I also think that the...

GRACE: Whoa, make a decision for paternity based on...

BURRIS: I don`t...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: ... holding the mom`s body as some kind of a bargaining chip?

BURRIS: I don`t think he can make a decision on paternity at all.

GRACE: Right.

BURRIS: I don`t think that`s his jurisdiction. He can only decide where that body is going to go.

GRACE: OK. What about it, Stacy Schneider?

STACY SCHNEIDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, I can`t really say why they moved down to the Bahamas. Maybe it was to avoid the paternity issue. That was definitely going to come up, because Larry Birkhead announced that very quickly that he was going to go after that.

And then especially after her son, Daniel`s, death, that certainly stepped up all the way to the top-notch, because his attorney was claiming that now this child could be in some kind of danger. But whether there`s legitimacy to that or not, but there are so many legal issues that are existing in this case and are going to keep opening up. It`s almost a legal can of worms with what exactly is her residency?

GRACE: Right. Out to you, Jean Casarez. First of all, I want you to see something that Virgie Arthur allegedly left at a makeshift memorial. Elizabeth, do we have that?

A handwritten note, "To my beautiful, loving daughter. Mama loves you with all my heart. Mama will look over your baby daughter. She looks so much like you. I just came here today to lay these flowers. Vickie," which is her given name, "as close as mom can get to you, I left you a little note. I want you to know I love you very much, and I know that you loved me. Mama`s here. She`s coming to get you, to bring you home."

Jean Casarez, do they have any security guards in front of the courtroom tomorrow? That`s all I want to know. You`re going to have Birkhead, Howard K. Stern, and Virgie Arthur, and their fleet of lawyers and hangers-on in the courtroom tomorrow.

CASAREZ: That`s right. And I think Virgie Arthur is going to have a thick skin, because Howard K. Stern is going to try to show just the opposite of everything that is in that note. But I think that note gives us a window into what Virgie Arthur`s testimony`s going to be tomorrow.

GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines. Christy in Alabama, hi, Christy.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. Can the Florida judge order Larry and Howard to take a paternity test tomorrow?

GRACE: I don`t believe they can. Jean Casarez, can he?

CASAREZ: Very interesting, Nancy. This is a sub-issue, because right now the California superior court has jurisdiction over any paternity issue. And they`re going to ask the court, I think, in California for paternity tests of Dannielynn in Florida.

The jurisdiction over Larry Birkhead -- well, Larry Birkhead wants to have a paternity test. Howard K. Stern, really, it doesn`t matter if he has a paternity test.

GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I`m not so sure I agree with you, Jean. I do, but yet I don`t. You know, talk is cheap, Jean. And Birkhead can file all the motions he wants. His lawyer can give all the press conferences she wants.

But the reality is, the baby`s in the Bahamas. If they want a paternity test, go to the Bahamas? It`s a one-hour flight from Florida. He`ll already be in Florida. File the motion. Hey, Jean, he doesn`t even have to go there. He can call a lawyer.

We have a Bahamas lawyer on with us tonight, Jamal Davis. He`s a great trial lawyer. Call him, get him to file a motion in the Bahamas. What`s the holdup?

CASAREZ: But, Nancy, there was a specific California order that said that there was a paternity test that had to be done of the baby and that Anna Nicole Smith could determine where that paternity test would happen, either the Bahamas or the United States, via Florida, by February 9th.

She died February 8th. She didn`t make a decision in that. And the ruling said that, after February 9th, it would then be Larry Birkhead that could determine where the paternity test would occur in Florida.

GRACE: Well, Jean, that piece of paper is not worth the ink that it`s written on. In the Bahamas, you think a Bahaman judge -- listen, Jean, think about it. You know, let`s unleash the lawyers again. To John Burris and Stacy Schneider. Come on, people.

What if a French judge sent you -- your judge, that you tried cases in front of, Burris -- a French order to tell the judge what to do? What would they use it for, maybe to clean the bathroom with? There`s no way a Bahamas` judge is going to bow down and scrape to a California ruling. Forget it. Not happening.

BURRIS: Well, you know, that`s not totally true. I mean, I don`t know...

GRACE: It hasn`t happened yet, has it?

BURRIS: It hasn`t happened yet, but I don`t know that the proper papers have been filed. I mean, you do have these compacts between countries and states about various kind of orders and child custody-type issues. So I don`t know that they cannot do it. I do think they`re on very shaky grounds, because the child is not here. And you`ve really got to go to the Bahamas to get this thing fought out.

GRACE: To you, Jean Casarez, what exactly is -- it is called comity, c-o-m-i-t-y, between nations. What is the comity between the U.S. and Bahamas on this issue?

CASAREZ: Well, I think we -- the UCC can determine it, all right? Now, the California order, Birkhead`s lawyers are going to try to get it enforced in Florida, with the probate court, actually. Now, I don`t know if they`re standing there.

But you would have the Florida courts then working with Bahamian courts. So can that happen? I don`t know. We don`t know it can`t.

GRACE: I`m just telling you, this order has been in effect for a while now.

CASAREZ: Yes, it has. And I know you`re...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: The UCC, which is the Uniform Commercial Code, that Bahamas judge is laughing his head off right now. They are not going to do what a Florida or California judge tells them to do.

Out to you, Jamal Davis. He`s joining us from Nassau, Bahamas. The order for the paternity test has been in place for some time now. Why hasn`t a judge in the Bahamas forced a DNA test on the baby?

JAMAL DAVIS, BAHAMIAN ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, first of all, good night, and thank you for always your usual kind comments.

Nancy, regrettably, I (INAUDIBLE) myself as a conflicts of law attorneys, but I would presume that, if application was made here for the enforcement of the paternity order, then there would be some sort of jurisdiction to consider it, Nancy.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... respect and dignity to the body of Ms. Smith. And then we have competing interests on the other side, these issues on the other side. We have to know whose body this -- who belongs -- who has the right to decide where this body goes? Then we have other issues, whether or not there`s a death investigation concerning this body.

We have a little child. And the overriding issue in this court`s mind is the welfare of this child. That`s where we don`t want to lose sight. When you look at this -- and I was thinking about it last night -- we`re in a French lambria. We`re in a maze. But when you look at the center of the maze, it all points to one issue: What`s in the best interest of the child, this little baby, this little girl that was born?

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GRACE: Courtroom showdown tomorrow morning, 9:30 a.m. in a Florida courtroom. I want to go back to Dr. Joshua Perper. He is the chief medical examiner there in Broward County.

Dr. Perper, again, thank you for being with us. Did anyone come to view the body yet?

PERPER: EXAMINER: Today, I had the father. The father visited the medical examiner`s office, and he was together with her fiance. And the fiance asked to see the body of Nicole. And I declined that, because we do not have viewing in a medical examiner`s office. We prefer to have that in the funeral home, and there was no disagreement. The father agreed.

GRACE: So the father, Anna Nicole Smith`s biological father, and Howard K. Stern showed up?

PERPER: The request which we received for the body was from the attorney for the mother. The attorney for the mother requested us to remit the body to him, and obviously we are not going to remit the body to anyone unless we have a court order.

GRACE: OK, hold on. Dr. Perper is with us, and he has been carefully protecting these remains from publicity. So you`re telling me Virgie Arthur asked you to remit the body to who?

PERPER: To remit the body to her, to her representatives.

GRACE: To her? OK, I thought you said the father, the biological father of Anna Nicole Smith and her fiance asked to see the body.

PERPER: They asked to see the body, but they specifically said to me that they don`t have any claim to the body for purposes of burial.

GRACE: Oh, I see. I see. And, Dr. Perper, again, I`m getting so many calls and e-mails regarding how her body is being protected from, for instance, the paparazzi getting photos of it and so forth. How was that done during the embalming process on Saturday? And how long did that process take?

PERPER: The process took slightly less than three hours. And the body is extremely well-protected. There are guards in the front and in the back. The office is locked. There`s a security system in place. The body`s in a sealed and locked cage inside the refrigerated area, which is also locked. It`s virtually inaccessible. And it would take an army to break through.

GRACE: And, Dr. Perper, did you -- were you there when the embalming took place?

PERPER: Yes, I was there during the embalming, at the beginning and the end of the embalming, periodically during the embalming. And I had my chief investigator present through the entire procedure to make sure that nothing improper takes place.

GRACE: OK, I`m glad to hear it.

Let`s go out to the lines. Lucy in Canada, hi, Lucy.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I love you. And I appreciate all of Dr. Perper`s insight.

GRACE: Me, too.

CALLER: My question is, Dannielynn being born in the Bahamas obviously makes her a Bahamian citizen. Therefore, does the U.S. courts have the right to force the DNA sample from her?

GRACE: Here`s the kicker, Lucy. I`ve learned that just because you`re born in the Bahamas does not mean you`re necessarily a citizen. Apparently, to get citizenship, you have to own property there. And a lot is going to hinge on whether or not they owned property and had citizenship.

It gets more and more complicated every day. So we can`t even say for sure the girl is a Bahaman resident.

Back out to you, Anthony in Indiana. Hi, Anthony. Oh, no Anthony.

How about -- who is my caller in Florida? OK. When you get that next caller, Elizabeth, let me know.

Back out to you, Mike Brooks, regarding the criminal investigation, I want you to take a listen to this.

Jean Casarez, tell us what we have learned about the last hour or so of Anna Nicole`s life.

CASAREZ: Well, we`ve heard that her bodyguard was married to a nurse. They were both there in Florida with Anna Nicole Smith, not presently with her. But his wife, the bodyguard`s wife, the nurse, was with her physically in the room. There seemed to appear to be a problem. She herself gave CPR and then called her husband, the bodyguard.

GRACE: And what happened when he got there, Jean?

CASAREZ: He began to give CPR. And then he says Howard Stern arrived while Anna Nicole was still in the room. He was on a boat, so that seemed to be a long time.

GRACE: And to you, Roberto Santiago with "The Miami Herald," it appears that she was dead when the bodyguard, Big Mo, actually got there.

SANTIAGO: Yes, she was. And we reported that last Sunday, a few days after her death. I had spoken to a number of people, a number of people who I trusted, who said, yes, she was dead in her room that day.

Let`s go back. On Monday, February the 5th, she arrived at the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino, apparently suffering from stomach flu. She was vomiting. She had a high fever. She spent most of her time in the room.

And then, on Thursday morning, something happened. Something happened. You know, she -- you know, sometime in the late morning, early afternoon, she was not responding. Big Mo eventually showed up there. He said in an interview that she was not breathing, that there was no heart rate.

GRACE: OK. So, bottom line, she was dead at the time the security guard got there.

Mike Brooks, where do we go from here on the investigation?

BROOKS: Well, one of my questions would be, you know, what was the time of death? You know, approximately what time did she expire? And, you know, that`s going to be one of the things that could be answered.

But, you know, the other thing, too, Nancy, you`ve got a nurse, a bodyguard, and now we hear possibly Stern that was in the room. What was the condition of the room? Was the room tampered with at all before law enforcement got there?

These are all questions that I would have as an investigator to these first people who were on the scene and also to the first responders who arrived there in the very early stages. But there was still a long delay. Now, Big Mo apparently is an EMT, so he was giving her CPR. But there`s still the delay. That bothers me.

GRACE: And to you, Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist. Last week, photos came out -- Elizabeth, I think we can pull those up -- of Anna Nicole Smith in the Bahamas with an officer of immigration there. And at first, it looked as if they`re both fully dressed. They are playfully hugging for a photo. It didn`t appear that anything was inappropriate about that.

He resigned. It`s over for him. But yet he says he did nothing wrong. Explain.

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, you know, this entire Anna Nicole case shows that appearance is everything and facts comes second. We don`t know if they had an improper relationship or not whether it was improper at all. It looks bad, and it looks like he may have helped her get residency. And maybe she did deserve it or maybe she didn`t. We don`t know. We won`t know for a while.

GRACE: No, we don`t know. Jean Casarez, what do we know?

CASAREZ: Well, we know that she lived in the Bahamas in that white mansion called Horizons. And the issue continues as to legal residency. I think it`s going to be a big issue.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: ... minister of information resigning today.

CASAREZ: Shane Gibson resigned. You`re exactly right. It`s been in the Bahaman newspapers for a long time. He is the one that gave Anna Nicole Smith that legal residency, saying, yes, she had purchased that home.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This happened, and it`s terrible, but I guess it really hadn`t hit me that it`s real. It`s hard, you know, to lose a grandson and a daughter, no matter if you haven`t been around them in a while or not. Like I say, it`s still your daughter.

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GRACE: Well, it may be the final showdown tomorrow in court, 0930. Right now, joining us, an expert in probates and wills, to possibly give us some answers in the Anna Nicole Smith case. Jeffrey Skatoff is joining us from West Palm Beach. He`s an expert in wills, probates, executorships.

Welcome, Jeff. Thank you for being with us.

JEFFREY SKATOFF, WILL AND PROBATE ATTORNEY: Thank you.

GRACE: Since Anna Nicole Smith`s will did not clearly state what was to be done with her body, how will the will help us tomorrow?

SKATOFF: Well, as far as where she`s to be buried, under Florida law, it`s pretty clear: It`s the intent of the deceased that controls where the burial is to take place. I assume that a big part of the hearing tomorrow is going to be to determine, what was her intent?

GRACE: Well, Jeff, is it typical in a hearing like this to have testamentary evidence?

SKATOFF: It would be typical to have, if the will said where the burial is to take place, that would probably be the best evidence. Since the will does not provide for that, I assume that the best evidence could be that she bought a burial plot in the Bahamas. If that can be proven, I would assume that that is where the burial will take place.

GRACE: Jeffrey Skatoff, we may have to draft you tomorrow night. A little problem with that: Howard Stern is the one who actually bought those plots, I`ve just learned. Thank you, Jeffrey, and thank you to you, Dr. Perper.

Tonight we stop to remember Army Major Michael Mundell, 47, Brandenburg, Kentucky. A history buff, he loved reading and had an encyclopedic knowledge of the Civil War. He attended Washington Jefferson College, even taught Roxy (ph). His hobbies: painting miniature soldiers, golf. And he leaves behind a widow, Audrey, four children and a sister. Michael Mundell, American hero.

Thank you to our guests, but especially to you. And a big good night from friends here in the studio, Vince and Mark. NANCY GRACE signing off. See you tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend.

END