Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Larry King Live
The Latest On Anna Nicole Smith
Aired February 20, 2007 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD K. STERN: Anna had always wanted to be buried near Marilyn Monroe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, riveting testimony in the battle for Anna Nicole Smith's body, as her companion, Howard K. Stern, finally takes the stand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STERN: She talked about death and really, from the time that I met her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: And takes some heat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTA BARTH, ATTORNEY FOR HOWARD STERN: Miss. Opri did just make a statement to my client that he actually killed Miss. Smith.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: And in a bizarre and chilling moment, Anna Nicole herself heard in court today on video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNA NICOLE SMITH: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Meanwhile, clear across the country in Los Angeles, the question of who fathered the baby girl Anna Nicole left behind is debated in another courtroom.
We've got all the latest on both hearings, from Anna Nicole's friends and attorneys and reporters who were inside court.
It's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Wow!
What a day.
Good evening.
It gets curiouser and curiouser.
Joining us in Plantation, Florida is Carlos Diaz. Carlos is a correspondent with "Extra." He was in the courtroom for today's hearings.
As was Jean Casarez. Jean is with Court TV News, a correspondent for day time trial coverage. She was also in the courtroom in Florida.
Carlos, what -- what was it all about today?
CARLOS DIAZ, "EXTRA" CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was supposed to be about who was going to get the body of Anna Nicole Smith.
Was it going to be Virgie Arthur, Anna Nicole's mother? Was it going to be Howard K. Stern?
It kind of turned into a sideshow, at times, with lawyers yelling at one another in court and also the paternity battle came into play.
We expected fireworks and we were not disappointed.
KING: Jean, what's your read?
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was an amazing day in that courtroom. There are so many legal issues that are interlocked with each other. This is a probate proceeding, but paternity, I think, will come into this courtroom because of the guardian that is stepping in the shoes to represent the little baby. And ultimately the natural birth father may have to do that.
KING: Howard K. Stern provided many of today's compelling moments.
Let's take a look, briefly, at what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STERN: Anna, in a lot of ways, always thought she was going to die young. And she said that. And she thought that she was going to be like Marilyn Monroe. So she thought she was going to die when -- I forget if the age is 36 or 37. So we discussed it prior to that. And then Anna also thought she was going to die when she was giving birth to Dannielynn.
So, Anna did talk about death. She talked about death, really, from the time that I met her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Carlos, why was that germane? DIAZ: Well, the thing is, it's about where she wanted to be buried. She wanted to be buried next to her son Daniel and that, you know, the fact that she talked about death so much means she made plans for her death and that's what -- what the lawyers for Howard K. Stern are trying to prove here, that she did have wishes after she died, and those wishes were to be buried in the Bahamas next to Daniel. And those conversations went on and on while she was alive.
KING: Jean, was Howard Stern an effective witnesses, in your opinion?
CASAREZ: I think he was. But his testimony said that after Daniel died, they actually talked about burying Daniel in Los Angeles, near Marilyn Monroe or near some others in Hollywood. But the cost was an issue. So finally, Anna Nicole said since I'm going to live in the Bahamas and I'm going to raise my daughter in the Bahamas, that's where I will bury Daniel.
I think there could be cross-examination on that, because she is no longer living and the daughter may not be raised in the Bahamas.
KING: To try to demonstrate Anna Nicole's profound estrangement from her mother, the court was allowed to -- the court permitted Virgie Arthur, her attorney, to present a portion of a videotape.
Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you ever talk to her again?
ANNA NICOLE SMITH: I will never speak to her again. Never. If I do, it will be a child attorney.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She'll never know Dannielynn?
SMITH: She'll never. Are you kidding me? She won't touch my child. She may have touched me, but she won't touch my child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: What was that like, Carlos?
DIAZ: Well, you know, you're trying to establish the fact that she doesn't have a relationship with her mother. It was a very emotional day for Virgie Arthur, Anna Nicole's mother, in the courtroom today. She went from holding her husband's hand over her shoulder to putting her head in her hands to being moved to tears at times.
She was definitely the person who got the most emotional of the three people in the courtroom today, the three people fighting over this body.
KING: Jean, was there any interaction between the mother, Virgie, and with Jack? CASAREZ: No. I saw none whatsoever, except for Virgie Arthur to say in open court that she had never before laid eyes on Howard K. Stern, after all these years, until today in that courtroom.
KING: And the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) action...
DIAZ: There was interaction...
KING: Go ahead, Carlos.
DIAZ: There was interaction, by the way, between Virgie Arthur and Larry Birkhead. They had a hug before court started. So a kind of, you know, a coming together of those two.
KING: We have one other piece of testimony we're going to show you from Howard Stern.
Listen to some of what he asserted were Anna Nicole's wishes about where she wanted to be buried.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STERN: Anna was very firm, very firm on the Bahamas was her home. That's where she wanted to raise Dannielynn and she wanted Daniel to be near her. And she -- she was pretty firm on that decision. So she picked out the two double plots side by side that Daniel is currently resting in and where she wants to be, as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Carlos, is Judge Larry looking to become Judge Judy?
DIAZ: Oh, definitely. Sideshow Seidlin, if you will. I mean there was -- there were times today in court where he contradicted himself several times. And far be it for me to judge an honorable judge in the state of Florida. But he said this is all about Dannielynn.
And then when Howard K. Stern said that he wanted to get back to Dannielynn, the judge said well, you're going to stay here as long as this takes. He contradicted himself several times and he really seemed to be hamming it up, at times, for the camera.
KING: Jean, what's your read on Virgie, the mother? How is she doing?
She testifies more tomorrow, right?
CASAREZ: Yes, she does, at 9:30 in the morning. Well, she's quite a lady in court because she had to have tough skin today. She never showed an emotion when that videotape was running. She would write notes. She would confer with her attorney and she took the stand very calmly to testify.
KING: Do you get any read, Carlos, where the judge is heading?
DIAZ: I honestly believe that this is heading in Howard K. Stern's favor because of the fact that the independent counsel that he has signed to Dannielynn said today, in essence, that Howard K. Stern would be the frontrunner on this because he has custody of Dannielynn and she is -- she is the next of kin in this case.
I think with that video testimony that we saw today, it's an uphill battle for Virgie Arthur to say hey, I'm her mom, she loves me. It didn't look like we saw too much love there from her from Anna Nicole on that videotaped testimony.
KING: If there is an appeal, Jean, no matter what the decision, does that keep the body above ground?
CASAREZ: Boy, is that a great point, because whatever order the judge makes, that is appealable to the 4th Circuit in Florida. And I think that there would be a stay. That means the body cannot be removed for burial until that appeal is heard.
KING: Is there a circus, Carlos, around the courthouse?
DIAZ: There is a circus. Well, first off, there was a fire alarm tripped before all this started, so you had that circus going on.
And then going into court today, it was a complete circus with dozens of media outlets there trying to get interviews on the way in. There was a lot more organization coming out for lunch, where they had barricades up. But it is definitely a media circs at the courthouse.
KING: Jean, what do you expect tomorrow?
CASAREZ: I think tomorrow, Virgie Arthur will testify and then other witnesses will take the stand. And remember, the issue at hand is, number one, what was the intent of Anna Nicole as to be buried? And, number two, who, legally, can take the body under Florida law for that proper burial?
KING: Thank you both very much.
Outstanding work.
Carlos Diaz, Jean Casarez.
Up next, observances of Anna and Howard's relationship.
Plus, Anna's daughter Dannielynn -- are we a step closer to testing her DNA?
We'll ask Howard's attorney, when "LARRY KING LIVE" continues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:
BARTH: How would you describe Anna's state of mind after Daniel died?
STERN: From the day that -- that Daniel died, Anna, honestly, was never the same. I mean I would say that physically, she -- she died last week. But in a lot of ways, emotionally, she died when Daniel died.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARTH: You could describe...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
BARTH: ... the nature of your relationship with Miss. Smith.
STERN: She was my best friend, my lover, the mother of my daughter. She was everything to me, I mean, literally everything, my whole world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: There were other proceedings in L.A. today and we'll talk about them with James Neavitt, the attorney for Howard K. Stern, in a couple of minutes.
We'll go back to south of Florida, in fact, we'll go further south and go to Nassau in the Bahamas with Alex Coen, the CEO of TrimSpa.
What do you make of all this legal wrangling?
ALEX COEN, TRIMSPA CEO: You know, the way I look at it, I kind of use my common sense. Clearly, Anna wanted to be buried next to Daniel. I can't imagine why this is taking the amount of time it's taking. I certainly have a lot of respect for the judicial system. However, my common sense tells me that eventually they're going to come to the realization that Anna should be buried next to Daniel.
And unfortunately right now, her body is decomposing and that's just making it so much more difficult when there's so many other legal challenges that, unfortunately, Dannielynn Hope faces and Howard faces.
Why make this such a major issue? It seems rather simple to me. And it's also incredibly stressful and I feel horrible for what Howard is going through. My -- through my heart really, you know, goes out to him.
KING: But on the other side of that, why doesn't he say I'll take a DNA, let the others take a DNA and we'll know tomorrow?
COEN: Well, you know, Larry, I think Anna's wish right now, he wants to fulfill, and that is to get Anna buried next to Daniel. I believe after that's over, I think that you're going to see Howard now start talking about his own personal wishes. Right now it's just a matter of getting Anna buried next to Daniel.
KING: All right, why are you in the Bahamas, by the way? Are you going through with that makeover challenge?
COEN: Yes, we've got our TrimSpa makeover challenge and it certainly is not the week that we expected. Anna was really looking forward to meeting all our contestants and sharing the stage with some of the other success stories that we're going to be sharing with the world. And, unfortunately, we're here alone without Anna.
KING: Sad.
COEN: And everyone's praying and sad, I'm sure.
KING: Thanks, Alex Coen, CEO of TrimSpa.
Good guy.
COEN: Thank you, Larry.
KING: Here in Los Angeles is James Neavitt, attorney for Howard K. Stern.
Most people were focused on what was going on in Florida.
What was going on here today?
JAMES NEAVITT, STERN'S CALIFORNIA ATTORNEY IN PATERNITY CASE: Well, today the court was dealing with the hearing that -- Larry Birkhead had asked the court to allow Anna's body to be given to them so they could take DNA testing. The court originally ordered, a couple of weeks ago, that, no, we're not going to hold up the body, that there's enough DNA that the coroner has and anything you need to -- need the DNA for, they have it. So there's no need for that.
The court today said that's a moot issue today. The court in Florida is going to deal with what happens with Anna's body. And there was another matter that was before the court was they were trying to hold Howard in contempt of court, dismiss that case and the other issue was the court wanted -- or Larry Birkhead wanted the court to assert jurisdiction over the custody of Dannielynn. And the court refused to do that for like the third or fourth time.
KING: So there's nothing left in L.A.?
NEAVITT: Well, right now there's no motions pending, but as I think you've heard on the news, I got served and I guess Howard got served -- when I talked to him, he said he got served -- I talked to him probably about an hour ago -- and he got served with a motion that Larry Birkhead has brought...
KING: Which is?
NEAVITT: To bring him into the case in L.A. because right now he is not in that case.
KING: Why doesn't your client subject himself and any other who wants it to a DNA and we know?
NEAVITT: My client...
KING: It seems simple.
NEAVITT: My client is the natural father of this child. Anna Nicole said so. He acknowledged it. He's on the birth certificate. And how many people have you talked to or been involved with who are saying they're the father? I mean where does the list -- where does Howard draw the line?
So we drew the line here...
KING: So if someone is challenging it who obviously had an affair with her during that period. No one is denying that Larry Birkhead didn't have an affair with her during that period?
NEAVITT: No.
KING: All right.
Because she's...
NEAVITT: Well, during what period?
KING: During the period of time she could have given...
NEAVITT: I mean...
KING: ... she could have been pregnant.
NEAVITT: Again, those are facts that nobody knows about. Those are in the family law proceedings here. I can't discuss them.
KING: Would you agree that your client is hurt from a P.R. standpoint?
NEAVITT: Absolutely. That's not the issue. The issue is we're trying to deal with this legally. We're waiting for the proper court to make the proper orders so that this thing can be done in the right way to make sure that there is no question about whether this -- Tom, Dick or...
KING: Dick or whoever.
NEAVITT: ... or Harry are the father of this child. My client is the natural. He is the father of the child. He is the presumed father of the child. Somebody has to come into the proper court. And Howard, I mean, the attorney in -- representing Larry Birkhead has been told since October, you know, go to the Bahamas and -- and deal with it there.
KING: And she's there now, I think. NEAVITT: And she has not done that.
KING: How long is this going to go on?
NEAVITT: You know, right now they're just trying to deal with the body. That should happen quickly. It needs to happen quickly. You've heard that, obviously, that if they don't do something quickly, her body is getting worse off. And that's what Howard is dealing with right now.
As far as the paternity case that's moving along, but it could happen a lot faster if somebody would deal with it in the proper way.
KING: But that can be appealed, the body burial, right?
NEAVITT: I -- again, I don't know Florida law. I mean I'm a family law attorney in California and I wish I could be able to...
KING: Could it be (UNINTELLIGIBLE) here?
NEAVITT: Yes.
KING: So it could still linger?
NEAVITT: The issue of what happens with the body?
KING: Yes.
NEAVITT: I think if that became an issue and the court of appeals got involved, they would do like an emergency type of a hearing because, you know, obviously we don't want to leave the body laying much longer.
KING: Yes.
Thanks, James.
NEAVITT: You're welcome.
KING: Thanks for coming in.
NEAVITT: Right.
KING: James Neavitt, the attorney here in L.A. for Howard K. Stern.
When we come back, Larry Birkhead's outspoken lawyer shares her thoughts on this issue, the paternity issue, and about having her client in the same room with the other guy who claims to be Dannielynn's daddy.
As we go to break, Anna Nicole's mother in court today, talking about their relationship, mom and daughter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you and she keep in contact with each other?
VIRGIE ARTHUR: OK. I didn't hear you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you and Anna Nicole keep in contact with each other?
ARTHUR: Yes, off and on. Not very often, though, after she started drugs. Once every three or four months I would hear from her. She'd call me in the middle of the night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what kind of condition was she in when that...
ARTHUR: Drugged. She called me one night specifically and said mom, don't go to work tomorrow. I said why? She said because I think you're going to get killed. Promise me you won't go to work tomorrow. 4:00 in the morning. I go to work at 6:00.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARTH: I just can't sit here because Miss. Opri did just make a statement to my client that he actually killed Miss. Smith. And that was stated to him...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's not going to be any of this.
BARTH: ... and I just can't -- I -- it needs to stop because I have to -- I have to protect him. I can't stand here. And I'm just asking...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one is going to say anything negative about one another. I need positive vibrations in here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Debra Opri joins us now from Plantation, the attorney for Larry Birkhead, who claims to be the father of the baby, Dannielynn. Both she and her client were present in court today.
Did you say that? did you say that Howard killed -- killed Danny?
DEBRA OPRI, ATTORNEY FOR LARRY BIRKHEAD: I'm not going to dignify that with a response. I'll tell you what I told Krista Barth in chambers. Kristy, this is not the Kristy Barth show. And her decorum in court is out of control and I think the picture is worth a thousand words and that's all I'll say.
I want to move on to the court rulings. We are very happy with them today.
We have a... KING: All right, but first let's discuss the ones in Los Angeles.
OPRI: Sure.
KING: James Neavitt was just here. He says you lost everything in L.A. today.
OPRI: No, actually, we won. The whole point of the hearing today was that Ron Rale, on behalf of Anna Nicole, argued that California no longer had jurisdiction over this paternity action...
KING: Right.
OPRI: ... because Anna was dead. The judge disagreed. Even though they're spinning the other way, the truth is California court ordered that the medical examiner in Florida will turn over Anna's DNA to us. And that was the sole purpose of why we went to Florida.
However, Larry, since we've been in Florida, we have developed new leads and what we're going to do is take the standing paternity order for the completion of DNA and hopefully we'll finish our two thirds of the pie this week in Florida.
We're going to go to the Bahamas, seek custody and seek to have the California order enforced in the Bahamas and in Florida, hoping that the judge will order DNA.
Something the public doesn't know -- and I want to spell this out as carefully as I can. There are two competing code sections. There is the burial statute, which Virgie is fighting for, and there is a medical examiner's statute, which is the guardian's fight.
And it differs because the child has to be 18 to have any rights for burial and the child doesn't have to be any age to have rights with the guardian.
We're fighting on behalf of the guardian ad litem for Dannielynn, saying that we need a DNA test so the natural father can have a say in the burial of Anna Nicole.
KING: All right.
OPRI: And that -- and so it's a big win for us today in Florida and in Los Angeles. So we're happy.
KING: What -- what were the papers you served Howard with?
OPRI: We served Howard with, in layman's terms, a motion and a notice that he is now stepping into the shoes of Anna Nicole in the California jurisdiction and he will satisfy the requirements of completing the paternity test by submitting Dannielynn to the test, much like Anna Nicole was threatened to be dragged into Los Angeles court if she didn't complete it by February 21st, we now have Howard stepping into her shoes. And we intend fully, in all three jurisdictions, to enforce the California court order. KING: When and where will your client take the stand?
OPRI: Larry is coming on the stand tomorrow and as soon as I'm done with this interview, I'll be preparing him for testimony tomorrow.
KING: And that's in connection with?
OPRI: That's in connection with the intent of Anna Nicole in terms of how she wanted to be buried and where?
KING: Larry has knowledge of that?
OPRI: Yes, absolutely. We have to know the questions and we have to know the answers. That's what good attorneys do.
KING: How, in your opinion, did Howard Stern do today on the stand?
OPRI: He was pathetic. He -- the body language was not impressive. He was sullen, sunken and he was so concerned with getting that video up that "E.T." provided, he forgot, first and foremost, to be prepared for testimony.
As an attorney, I was not impressed and the judge was thoroughly not impressed with the way that video disparaged Virgie. We have to understand in the long-term of things, Larry, that that judge has been hearing testimony and seeing things for 30 years in the family law and juvvie courts.
And this judge was not impressed with an "Entertainment" interview of a woman attacking her mother, when, in fact, Virgie, who took the stand, was plain-spoken, and she basically said my daughter was my daughter until around the time Howard K. Stern entered her life.
KING: Was it hard for your client to be around Howard K. Stern today?
OPRI: My client knows who he is and my client knows he's the father. And Howard K. Stern, I think, had more difficulty being in Larry's presence.
KING: When Howard Stern referred to the baby as his daughter, why didn't you object?
OPRI: You know, you're -- I would -- could have said, "Your Honor, I object."
And why?
Because the judge was getting very ticked off with all the objections. Our strategy was to remain quiet and let the testimony get out.
There is something else, and you brought this to my mind. When Howard K. Stern states that I am the father under Bahamian law, what he's saying and what no one knows is that under Bahamian law, a presumed father -- not a biological father -- can take legal entitlement to the custody of a child.
He will not ever say on a witnesses stand under oath, under penalty of perjury, that he is the biological father of that child, because he knows he is not. And if he wants me to hit him with a contempt action in Florida for perjury, I'll do that.
As far as that contempt action in Los Angeles, we let it go because we got what we want. We got the paternity order, we got it enforced in other jurisdictions and we're heading there. And we're off to the Bahamas as soon as we're done with Florida.
KING: Debra, finally, what's your assessment of this judge?
A lot of people are having fun with him.
OPRI: Well, I'm a New Yorker so I understand Judge Seidlin. I like Judge Seidlin. I think he has a complete grasp of the issues and if push comes to shove and he's got to make a decision, Judge Seidlin is not afraid of the hard decisions.
KING: Thanks.
Debra Opri, the attorney for Larry Birkhead.
We'll be seeing lots of her.
Up next, what Anna Nicole's mom wants and whether she's likely to get it. Virgie Arthur's attorney joins us with his view of today's court proceedings.
As we go to break, more of Mr. Stern's testimony.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STERN: She had real problems accepting Daniel was gone. She wanted to see him in the casket. So at the beginning, before the ceremony started, she had the people open the casket. And she was just inconsolable in hugging Daniel and holding onto him. And she wanted to go down with Daniel right then. She said if Daniel has to be buried, I want to be buried with him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you had one regret with your daughter, what would it be? One regret?
VIRGIE ARTHUR, SMITH'S MOTHER: One regret?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. ARTHUR: That I was not able to get her away from drugs. One regret.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Joining us now from Plantation, Florida is John O'Quinn. He's the attorney for Virgie Arthur, Anna Nicole's mother.
From your perspective, John, how are the proceedings going in court today?
JOHN O'QUINN, ATTY. FOR ANNA NICOLE'S ESTRANGED MOTHER, VIRGIE ARTHUR: Larry, the proceedings are going very well for the mother of Anna Nicole, who I represent. I thought Mr. Stern was a pathetic witness and totally unbelievable. And I'm not concerned about his testimony at all.
KING: How did you feel about the judge calling you Texas?
O'QUINN: Calling me Testy?
KING: Texas.
O'QUINN: Oh, Texas. I'm proud to be a Texan. You know Nicole was a Texan, just like Howard Hughes was a Texan and like just like Mike Hyde's (ph) is Texan. Howard Hughes is buried in Houston, Texas.
KING: How -- John, what's the mother's main claim in this, since she was estranged from the daughter? And don't the daughter's wishes seem paramount?
O'QUINN: No. The law is the paramount thing, Larry. That's the tragedy of this whole thing. The law is paramount. Anybody can claim anybody said anything, doped up or not doped up. The law plainly says that the mother is the one to take custody of the body. She's the only blood kin left.
KING: What about Howard Stern's assertions that the mother wanted to be buried in the Bahamas, that was her wish?
O'QUINN: He said she wanted to be buried with her son. Her son would ultimately be buried in Texas, also.
KING: You're going to win both of these?
O'QUINN: Yes, sir. That's the law.
KING: Let's take another look at the TV interview with Anna Nicole that was played today in court. Let's watch a little portion of it.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ANNA NICOLE SMITH, DECEASED: Who does she think she is?
She's just out there making money for herself. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was the last time you spoke with her?
SMITH: The last time I spoke with her, or the last time she beat me?
The last time I got a beating from my mother, I think I was twenty-one years old.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
KING: Now, what's your client's reaction to hearing that in court, accusations by her daughter against her?
O'QUINN: Of course, any mother would be horrified and extremely unhappy to have those accusations. Remember, this lady has raised -- my client has raised five children out to adulthood, marriage, grandchildren, et cetera, and none of the other five have ever said this.
Anna Nicole never said these things until she got on dope, God bless her soul, and got under the control of this Rasputin-type guy, Stern, who made money. He has no job. He has no way to make money except off of the publicity.
This was not a show on "60 Minutes" or even your show, Larry King. This was a show put together by "ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT". They love to sensationalize. They paid for the show. And certainly, he had deliver something very sensational. The sensationalism was to condemn the mother.
KING: You know, "ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT" denies paying them.
O'QUINN: Well, that's not true. There's paperwork that I have been told about that shows that there's a contract between "ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT" and Stern.
KING: How does your client...
O'QUINN: And something...
KING: How does your client feel about her daughter now?
O'QUINN: My client loves Anna Nicole. You know how mothers are. They love their kids all the way to the end. And she just wishes she could hug and hold Anna Nicole and bring peace to her. She's passed and she's suffered a very horrible life the last five years of her life with this guy Stern, strung out on drugs. It's a really pitiful situation.
KING: John, has your client viewed her daughter's body yet?
O'QUINN: My client knows her that daughter's views -- her daughter's views was to be with the family. She's a family person. All of the family is in Texas, Larry. Every bit...
KING: No, but I asked -- I asked if your client has viewed her daughter's body. Has she seen it?
O'QUINN: Oh, I think -- I don't think that's occurred, no. She's been denied any right to see her by Stern. Stern's living in Anna Nicole's house, allegedly taking care of Anna Nicole's daughter. The guy mooches and he's -- he's got no other way to survive except to continue to live on the name of Anna Nicole or this daughter.
KING: Your client testifies again tomorrow, right?
O'QUINN: Yes. She will finish her testimony tomorrow.
KING: Thanks. John O'Quinn, attorney for Virgie Arthur...
O'QUINN: I also want to say...
KING: Yes, go ahead.
O'QUINN: Sir, let me say, I think the mother presented herself very well. She's a 28 year veteran police officer, retired with honors. All of her children have very responsible jobs. And I think this attack on the mother is just horrible and uncalled for. She's a wonderful woman.
KING: John O'Quinn, the attorney for Virgie Arthur. Thank you so much.
In our next segment I'll speak with one of Anna's ex's and find out what he has to say about the former playmate's relationship with drugs. That's next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SMITH: Peter is wonderful. His designs are brilliant, creative, great. What can you say? You have to love them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We now welcome to LARRY KING LIVE Peter Nygard. Peter was -- Anna Nicole Smith modeled for his clothing company, Nygard International. He and Anna dated in 1998 or '99. Peter annually hosted, along with Norby Walters, the famed Night of 100 Stars. That event takes place every -- I'm showing it now if we put it on camera -- quick. This takes place every year on Academy Award Night.
And that's where you met Anna Nicole, right?
PETER NYGARD, CHAIRMAN, NYGARD INTERNATIONAL: Yes, that's right. Back in 1997.
KING: And what it like attraction at first sight?
NYGARD: It was. It's very easy to get attracted to Anna Nicole Smith, you know. And we did get attracted right away, and subsequently fell into a romantic relationship. I was one of many. And she started modeling for me. We did a magazine. The covers of my magazine was in all of the stores, and actually found a new lease on life at that time. She wrote a lot about it and talked a lot about it, you know, I sort of rekindled...
KING: Why did your relationship end?
NYGARD: It ended over drugs. I'm so anti-drug, and I was so committed to try to get her off drugs and couldn't.
KING: Why not? What was the...
NYGARD: She was addicted. It was just her flaw. She was addicted.
KING: Did she go for help?
NYGARD: She didn't. And after that, she had gone earlier already to Betty Ford, and she felt renewed again. And I had to constantly have her on 7/24. She was always, always had to be cared for every minute.
KING: Did you know Howard Stern?
NYGARD: I did not know Howard. I was only involved with him a couple of times after in the Bahamas, you know, over the phone.
KING: You have property in the Bahamas, right?
NYGARD: I do. That's actually how Anna got there in the first place. Anna came to the Bahamas. She said twice before -- she came twice with me to my place called Nygard Key. She loved Bahamas. She felt safe in Bahamas. Loved my place. In fact, many times since then, since we broke up, she called me a number of times and said, let's go to the Bahamas again. Let's go to the Bahamas again.
KING: Did you know Danny, too?
NYGARD: No.
KING: What is your take on her supposed relationship with the former Bahamian minister of immigration?
NYGARD: Shane Gibson, fine, fine gentleman. No relationship the way it's been portrayed. I know him very well. Shane Gibson, King Eric, the whole Gibson family is a phenomenally fine family, and welcomed her with open arms.
If he went a little above and beyond the call of duty in accommodating her, that's all it was. But Shane is happily married...
KING: Nothing nefarious?
NYGARD: No. Absolutely not.
KING: When did you last have contact with Anna Nicole? NYGARD: When she arrived at the Bahamas, she phoned me. Peter, I'm your neighbor. You know? I got a call from her. I got a call from her after Daniel had passed away. I got a call from her after Jackie Hutten was there, and she was looking for Jackie Hutten. I got a call from her, what are you doing for New Year's? Maybe four calls. Let's have dinner.
KING: So how soon before she died?
NYGARD: Last time was before New Year's.
KING: Do you think you know who the father is?
NYGARD: Absolutely.
KING: You do?
NYGARD: Yes. They both are.
KING: What do you mean?
NYGARD: They both are.
KING: Two people can't be fathers?
NYGARD: Well, here's why...
KING: You mean Larry and Howard?
NYGARD: Yes. Because Howard is relying on Bahama law. Howard is not the biological father.
KING: That's what I mean. The biological father is who?
NYGARD: Howard -- that's Birkhead. But Howard is talking about being the father under Bahama law. And if you ever ask him if he's the biological father, if it's his sperm that made it, he will not be able to say yes.
KING: So how does Bahamas make him the -- the father, if it's not biological?
NYGARD: Because Bahama law, in Bahama law, all you have to do is, the mother can just say who the father is, and that's the law. She just writes it down who it is, and that's the end of it. And Howard was advised in the Bahamas that that's all he had to do, and that's what he's relying on.
KING: But he's going to have to keep her in the Bahamas, then, right? Because someone will challenge it in the United States.
NYGARD: If Howard ever would have to really go under oath, he could not -- he could not say under oath that he's the biological father.
KING: How do you know? NYGARD: I know Anna Nicole Smith so very well. I know the Gibsons so very well. I know Jackie so very well. I'm very, very close to this situation. I know of their relationship. You know, Jackie -- or rather Anna Nicole Smith's and Howard's.
KING: You don't know Larry, though?
NYGARD: I don't know Larry. No.
KING: Thanks, Peter. Good seeing you. Peter Nygard. Anna Nicole Smith story just gets on and on.
Still to come, Dr. Joshua Perper, the medical examiner, who really did phone it in at today's court hearing. What he had to say about Anna Nicole's body during that call really shook things up. Details next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD K. STERN: We started spending a lot of time together probably in '97.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: '97?
STERN: '98.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: '98?
STERN: We were really good friends. It was after that, it was probably maybe 2000.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In 2000, you started to have a more personal, intimate relationship with her?
STERN: Yes. And it was not exclusive because of my relationship as her attorney, and something that we did not disclose to too many people. But -- and she had other boyfriends in between. I wanted her to be happy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Anderson Cooper is still in the wilds of Brazil. Hosting "AC 360" tonight at the top of the hour is Kiran Chetry. Kiran, a personal welcome aboard. What's up tonight?
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Larry. Thanks so much.
Well, coming up at the top of the hour, we have much more on the Anna Nicole Smith feud.
Also, fueling terrorism. We are going to find out what impact the war in Iraq is really having on the war on terror.
Plus, it's a special -- "The Edge of Disaster" -- is America really prepared for the worst case scenario? It's a stunning special report. We are going to have that and much more. John King also joins me tonight coming up at the top of the hour, Larry.
KING: Thanks, Kiran. You are going to like her a lot. Kiran Chetry.
We go now to West Palm Beach, Florida. Dr. Joshua Perper is the Broward County medical examiner. He performed the autopsy on Anna Nicole Smith. He made a dramatic call to Judge Seidlin today. What was that about?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, BROWARD COUNTY, FL: Well, the embalmer who did the embalming on Saturday came today to check the condition of Nicole's body and found some worrisome discoloration, which spread on the face. And they were concerned that if we are going to do the viewing next week, then there's going to be most impossible to restore the face to normal appearance. So they said that it would be very worthwhile to do the viewing perhaps in Broward before Saturday.
KING: Or why not just no viewing?
PERPER: Well, apparently, the parties wanted to have a viewing. And I think they still want to do so. So I think that's a very good probability that indeed there's going to be such viewing in Broward.
KING: This condition, doctor, is not repairable?
PERPER: Well, no, because it's a normal process of deterioration of tissue and occurs in most anybody after three or four days.
KING: I see.
PERPER: And in this particular case, such deterioration would make the cosmetic application much more difficult.
KING: Where are her remains being kept?
PERPER: The remains are kept in a plastic bag, which is sealed inside a cage of steel, which is sealed and locked inside a refrigerator, which is also locked. In our office.
KING: Is there a lot of security, Dr. Perper?
PERPER: Yes, there's security both in the front and in the back, and we have an internal security system. The body is extremely well kept, under security conditions.
KING: When do we get the final autopsy report?
PERPER: The final autopsy report is going to be released, as I said initially, some time between three and five weeks, and I hope it is going to be as soon as possible.
KING: And then would you expect the decision to be carried out soon on the burial? PERPER: Well, I think that the decision is going to be made well before.
KING: Yes, but it can be appealed.
PERPER: Well, then that's -- that's true. Any legal process can be appealed. But I don't think that this is going to affect the burial as such.
KING: Thank you, Doctor. You're always so cooperative. Dr. Joshua Perper, Broward County medical examiner.
Ahead in our final segment -- my pleasure -- the journalist with interview everybody wanted. You will hear what Larry Birkhead had to say to Tony Potts about the court case. As we go to break, a couple of the quirky comments from Probate Judge Seidlin. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEIDLIN: You take (inaudible) just look at this wall. Don't look at the other paintings.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think...
SEIDLIN: Just keep your eye on this one painting here. When a fish has a little smell, you get rid of the whole fish.
I need positive vibration in here. I ask you to sit now, Texas. I'm moving on. That's the bone I'm going to throw you.
You're a stranger. You're a good stranger.
And he has got no dog in the race other than the best interests...
(CROSSTALK)
You're not in a New England town meeting. There's no echoes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Joining us now in Miami is Tony Potts, correspondent and weekend co-host of "Access Hollywood." Tony got an exclusive today with Larry Birkhead, to air -- it aired tonight on "Access Hollywood." Let's watch a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY POTTS, ACCESS HOLLYWOOD: How will you feel when you sit there and you will be across from Howard K. Stern, looking him in the eyes, and he's the fellow who is actually keeping you from your daughter?
LARRY BIRKHEAD: It doesn't make me happy, but I'm here to make sure that hopefully that doesn't happen for too much longer.
POTTS: And inside, Birkhead just a few feet away from his paternity nemesis Stern. Before the hearing started, he greeted his ally Virgie with a hug and a pat on the back before taking his seat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Tony Potts, thanks for joining us. What was his mood, Mr. Birkhead?
POTTS: I think it was upbeat. I think he was a little bit nervous when he first looked out. He was looking around to see where the mob was. We had planned to have him meet a half block from where everybody goes in. So if you look, I'm kind of looking once in a while to see if the mob is going to catch on that we have him, exclusively, walking him into the courthouse. They never did.
He seemed upbeat. He seemed a little nervous because he just wanted to get things going. He hasn't been out. This was his first -- his first words publicly since Anna Nicole had died. And I think he wanted to get in there.
He felt that he was doing it not only for Anna Nicole, but he told me he is also doing it for Dannielynn.
I did ask him, you know, what it would mean for him if he actually gets to hold Dannielynn, and he said it would mean the world to him. I said, how have you been able to in the last couple of days, last week or so, keep the strength to come fighting here? And he says, I have a picture of Dannielynn, and I keep looking at that and that gives me strength.
KING: Did he say anything about Nicole's sudden demise?
POTTS: He said it was really hard on him, and he told me that he also had to stay in bed. He's been in bed quite a bit. It's been tough to get up and get out and what have you. Also, I imagine people are searching for him in the past couple of days.
I do think that Mr. Birkhead believes that he will at some point, firmly believes that he will be labelled as the father and found out as the father, and I think he is a little bit flummoxed, to use the word, that Howard K. Stern has not submitted his DNA as of yet, but it sounds like that is going to happen shortly.
KING: What did he tell you about the prospects of being in the same courtroom with Mr. Stern?
POTTS: He wasn't too happy about it in one sense, but I think he's also very competitive. He's a fighter, and I think he kind of relished the fact that he was going to be in there. He feels like he has good counsel with Debra Opri, and he also feels that he wants to get this done, he wants to get it out there.
He truly believes he's the father. And like any father, if you feel that's your daughter, and you have had not a chance to wrap your arms around her for six months, you're dying to get out there, not so much for yourself but if you truly believe it's your daughter, you want to do it for her.
KING: Peter Nygard, a former boyfriend and still friend, or was right until her demise, a friend of Anna Nicole Smith, says there are two fathers. He says Larry Birkhead is the biological father, but Howard Stern is the legal father by virtue of Bahamas law. What do you make of that?
POTTS: That's true. I have been to Peter's house. He's a nice man. He's very philanthropic. He helps a lot of people. He obviously helped out Anna Nicole as well.
I think that's true to an extent. But we're going to see what happens now with California and Florida putting the pressure on the Bahamas. But just because you say you're the father, especially the way we work things in the United States, does not mean you are the father. Paternity tests will likely prove out that Larry Birkhead is indeed the father.
I think it's very interesting that also, you ran some clips about Judge Seidlin, and I heard today from good sources that higher-ups in the judicial system there are saying -- and putting some pressure on him to maybe ratchet it down a bit.
I don't know. I kind of like it. Once in a while, it's a bit frustrating because it goes a bit slow, but I do think he's taking a wide scope. It's almost like a tree. He's building a tree and seeing what branches that he wants to look at, which ones, where does he want to go, what branch do we want to go out on. And it makes I think for good TV, but also kind of helps maybe to bring the layman, the public, all those of us who are not lawyers, in on what's actually happening. I kind of like it, Larry.
KING: That's true, Tony, in family court and probate court. There are a lot of judges -- Judge Judy is a classic example. Very bright, very intelligent, but flamboyant.
POTTS: Absolutely. One of the things I want to tell you that Larry Birkhead said to me, and I thought it was interesting the way he worded it, because we were talking about how the way Mr. Stern worded that he believes he is the father. Larry said to me, I want to go in and I want to have the court hear Anna's wishes as she said them to me, which made me think that he has something maybe a little bit up his sleeve. Maybe she told him something different of where she wanted to be buried and what she wanted to have happened to her than what Howard K. Stern is saying has happened. So I would look for that tomorrow, because Larry is going to be on the stand tomorrow.
KING: Tony, we only have a little amount of time left. How long does this play out, this story?
POTTS: Oh, boy. I was surprised today when Perper called on the phone and he said the body is deteriorating, and judge said he had -- thought he had three or four weeks, or two or three weeks for this. I think it plays out for quite a long time. I think we're not going to hear the end of this. There are so many lawyers involved, as you saw today. It's taken us just this long just to figure out when the body and where it can be buried and who's going to have it, Larry.
KING: Thanks very much, Tony. As always, a great job. Tony Potts, correspondent, weekend co-host, "Access Hollywood."
That's it for this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Let's turn it over to our co-hosts in New York, while we still have the -- Anderson Cooper somewhere in the wilds of Brazil, Kiran Chetry and John King. What a pair! Look at that! They fit! It works! John -- who wants to take it, Kiran or John?
CHETRY: I'll start, Larry. Ladies first, right?
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com
