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CNN Larry King Live
More On The Battle Over Anna Nicole Smith
Aired February 21, 2007 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE LARRY SEIDLIN: There's no circus here, my friend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, an emotional day for Anna Nicole's mother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTA BARTH, ATTORNEY FOR HOWARD K. STERN: Have you in any fashion profited at all from the death?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: It got intense for Anna Nicole's companion, Howard Stern, too.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEBRA OPRI, ATTORNEY FOR LARRY BIRKHEAD: Mr. Stern, you can laugh at me all you want.
Are you or are you not the biological father of Dannielynn?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Then, Anna Nicole's ex-boyfriend, Larry Birkhead, took the stand. And in the middle of battling over her body, they all went to view Anna Nicole's decomposing remains.
With the judge pushing to rule by week's end, we've got the latest with Anna Nicole's friends and attorneys and reporters who were in court today.
Plus, the prince and the bodyguard -- each thinks he could be the biological daddy of the baby Anna Nicole left behind.
It's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
It was quite a day in Broward County, Florida today. And lots of guests tonight to back it up.
We begin in Fort Lauderdale with Jean Casarez of Court TV News, correspondent for daytime trial coverage. She's been covering the legal battle over the body and was in the courtroom, as was Carlos Diaz. He's in Plantation, correspondent for "Extra." He was also in that courtroom today.
Carlos, the very people fighting over the body all went to see the body.
Was that a little macabre?
CARLOS DIAZ, "EXTRA" CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was a situation where it wasn't all the people. It was Anna Nicole Smith's mother, Virgie Arthur, and it was also Howard K. Stern who went. And we learned that it wasn't a showing that -- basically it was a showing that was drummed up as nice as could be in the medical examiner's room.
They actually made it look as much like a funeral home as possible. A local funeral home came in, did up Anna Nicole Smith in makeup, put her in a dress, put her in an open casket. And the people that we talked to said that it was about 90 percent like a funeral home, as much as possible, so you'd have a favorable showing for Virgie Arthur and Howard K. Stern.
KING: Jean, we're getting so many different variations of what was the big story today, because so many different things happened.
From your viewpoint, what was number one today?
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV CORRESPONDENT: Oh, boy. I think it would have to be in relation (AUDIO GAP) because (AUDIO GAP) in this court, in this probate court, Howard K. Stern did not want to talk about it.
But the judge said look, I've got to see if she was able to form an intent -- an intent to buy the plot, an intent on the video of where she says that she has disowned her mother.
And so finally Howard K. Stern had to admit that she had used methadone, but she hadn't used it for five months.
So what does that mean?
It means that she was using it when she was pregnant.
KING: Carlos, was this a bad day for Howard Stern?
DIAZ: I think it was a bad day for Howard K. Stern because it's quite evident that the judge in this case does not really like Howard K. Stern that much, if you listen to what he said. Every time that Howard K. Stern spoke in court, the judge said, "Answer the question yes or no and stick to the question. Don't elaborate."
Now, when Virgie Arthur was on the stand, he let her talk forever. And when she didn't know the answer to a few questions, she actually said, "I don't know how to answer that."
Well, it's either yes or no.
But the judge did not go there. And then, at the end of the day, the judge said that he loved Larry Birkhead. He said basically when Larry Birkhead was on the stand, you know, I really think you're a good witness. You're doing a great job.
It's quite evident that this judge is looking unfavorably at Howard K. Stern right now.
KING: All right, Jean, we're going to ask you about the mother.
Anna Nicole's mother, Virgie Arthur, was back on the stand today. Emotional testimony. Let's watch a little.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VIRGIE ARTHUR, ANNA NICOLE SMITH'S MOTHER: Please, Vickie, baby, Danny is gone. And then you're going to be next. Please pay attention to what's around you and who's around you. Please be careful. I said that on national TV because I knew she was going to be next. My grandson did not overdose. Howard was there when he died. And Howard was there when he died. And Howard was there when my daughter died.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to move to strike this as being non-responsive...
ARTHUR: And he has my granddaughter now. It's not even his child. And I'm afraid for her life, as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Jeannie, what kind of day was it for Virgie?
CASAREZ: It was a tough day for Virgie Arthur. On cross- examination, Krista Barth, who is the attorney for Howard K. Stern, absolutely went like gangbusters to her because of all the passion that's inside this attorney, and she just started to cry.
And what that crying was right there was in relation to the video that we saw, Anna Nicole Smith, an interview she gave for "Entertainment Tonight," saying she had basically disowned her mother because of her mother coming out on CNN. And her mother was just trying to explain that we had a good relationship but when you started on the pathway of drugs and with Howard K. Stern, our relationship disintegrated and you need to see the truth.
KING: We'll ask Carlos about Howard Stern.
Let's watch him a little today, when the issue of drug use came up.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD K. STERN, ANNA NICOLE SMITH'S ATTORNEY: She kept her medications in two drawers in the bathroom.
SEIDLIN: Could you have stopped her from taking these drugs...
STERN: Your Honor...
SEIDLIN: ... taking these prescription drugs?
Could you have stopped it?
STERN: Your Honor, after her son passed away...
SEIDLIN: Prior.
STERN: I talked to her about it. I mean I talked to her about it. And she did cut down a lot on medication that she took.
Can you -- can anybody stop someone else entirely?
I mean we're jumping the gun here...
SEIDLIN: Well, I'm jumping...
STERN: ... because...
SEIDLIN: I'm jumping the gun. I've got a gun to my head. I've got to decide by Friday at noon.
STERN: Anna, when she made her decisions, was pretty clear on her decisions and I don't think that medication influenced her decisions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Are they saying, Carlos, that the drug use affected where she said she wanted to be buried?
DIAZ: Exactly.
Well, you're -- it's also the influence of Howard K. Stern.
You know, was he a positive or negative influence on her while she was taking the drugs?
I think the more important thing there is you're listening to the judge keep Howard K. Stern on point. Several times today, Howard K. Stern would turn to his attorney and say object to that, object to that, object to this, object to that. And he even said, at one point, "That's hearsay."
To which the judge said, "Are you representing yourself now, Mr. Stern? You've got a lawyer here. Let your lawyer do her job."
So it's obvious that this -- that this judge is keeping Howard Stern on point throughout the proceedings.
KING: A guy who had a good day was Larry Birkheart and -- Mr. Birkhead, rather. I said Larry Birkheart. Larry Birkhead, the judge praised him at the end.
Let's watch the judge and Larry go at it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEIDLIN: December 31, '05 to...
LARRY BIRKHEAD: To the first part of January. Actually, the first part of February/end of January.
SEIDLIN: February '06.
BIRKHEAD: '06.
SEIDLIN: And you're mostly in this new home you took?
BIRKHEAD: No, no. We're in her home at that point.
SEIDLIN: You're back to her home?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Did he do that well, Jean?
CASAREZ: You know, Larry Birkhead was a very interesting witness at the very end of the day. And I think everyone believes he had a lot of credibility on that stand.
KING: Do you think they tended to believe him so much that they think he might be the biological father?
CASAREZ: Well, you know, it's so interesting that he's even testifying in that this trial. And a lot of people are having a problem with that. But I think the reason he's in that courtroom, the reason he testified is because there is a baby, a little girl. And it's the best interests of the baby that's at the heart of this.
She has a guardian right now, but that guardian actually should be the natural birth father.
KING: Carlos, how was Howard reacting when Larry was testifying?
DIAZ: Oh, that's the thing. I mean Howard today was most -- it was his most expressionistic day because when Virgie Arthur first took the stand, he was shaking his head, laughing at her. When Larry Birkhead was on the stand, he was shaking his head, as well.
The first day in court that he was there he kept his head down, his head in his hands. Today he was -- he was all expressions. And as you saw in the heated argument, the heated exchange that he had with Larry Birkhead's attorney, she said, you know, you can laugh all you want at me, you know?
And she tried to get him, as I said earlier, back on point, as well.
So, I mean it was a very emotional day for Howard K. Stern in a negative way.
KING: Jean Casarez and Carlos Diaz will be returning later in the program.
Coming up, a member of Virgie Arthur's legal team on how Anna Nicole's mom dealt with viewing her dead daughter's body today.
As we go to break, more of Virgie's testimony.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARTHUR: I'm not giving up. I'm not going to quit.
SEIDLIN: No.
ARTHUR: The drugs took her over and that -- that picture you saw on TV yesterday, that was not my daughter.
SEIDLIN: You do not...
ARTHUR: It looked like my daughter.
SEIDLIN: You're going to have...
ARTHUR: But it was not my Vickie.
SEIDLIN: You're going to have a ruling on it by Friday. And I'm going to try to fashion a remedy that -- that satisfies all parties.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARTH: You have no idea what your daughter's intentions are as to where she wants to be laid to rest, do you?
ARTHUR: Not except when she was at home. She said she wanted to be buried in Texas.
BARTH: When she was home?
ARTHUR: Yes. When she lived in Texas. That's where she came from, that's where she was born, that's where she wanted to be buried, with the family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We now welcome from Miami Don Clark, investigative strategist for the law firm representing Anna Nicole's mother, Virgie Arthur.
He was the former head of the FBI office in Houston.
What does an investigate strategist do in a case like this, Don? Good seeing you again, by the way.
DON CLARK, FORMER FBI HOUSTON BUREAU CHIEF: Well, it's good to see you, Larry.
You know, it's working with these lawyers, with all of the information and evidence that you've got to look at. And if you're a good investigator, there's a very clear correlation between a good investigator and a good attorney. The only difference is, in my opinion, is that the attorney really knows, perhaps, more statutes than the investigator does.
But it's a person who works to try to help to put it all together.
KING: How did Virgie handle looking at her daughter's remains?
CLARK: Well, I talked to her after she had had an opportunity to do that. And it's very touching and very difficult for her. I mean, you know, this woman really did and does love her daughter. And things happened during the course of life, but this was a very painful situation for her, but I think she's handling it pretty well.
KING: Don, here she is testifying -- we'll show this clip -- about visiting her grandson's gravesite.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARTHUR: When I walked over there, there were flowers on that grave and they were from Larry Birkhead. He had put flowers on there where he had a little note on the flowers saying Danny -- how much he loved Danny. And -- so that's how I found where his grave was. And...
SEIDLIN: Is that why you have a little bond with Larry when you see him?
ARTHUR: Yes, because (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
SEIDLIN: I feel there's a little bond when you two are looking at one another.
ARTHUR: Yes. Because he had been over there, you know, and he -- I didn't know him. I had never met him before. But he had left flowers on that baby's grave. And that's how I found out where his grave was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Don, what do you think was most significant about her testimony today?
CLARK: Well, I think she was sincere. You know, she was emotional at times. You could tell when the conversation went about and talked about Anna and the way that she really touched her. She was very emotional about that. And, in my opinion, Larry, there wasn't any phoniness about this. She was really sincere.
And then, on the other hand, when the opposing attorneys would say something that sort of ired her for some point, she sort of spurred up a little bit, because she really wants people to know that, you know, she really did love her daughter. And she doesn't want to have the reputation that she just gave up on her and didn't try to do anything with her.
So I think the ability of her to sort of ebb and flow and really show the emotions and not put on an act.
KING: Don, what's your assessment of this whole thing, of Larry -- of Birkhead, of Howard Stern, of the whole proceeding?
CLARK: Well, certainly the proceeding is necessary because someone has to -- should be given this body so that they can put it to rest in a place that is desirable.
The other aspects of this -- the truth of the matter is, Larry, that this is a one point case. And the whole point of this case is about who gets Anna Nicole's body.
Some of the other things will be decided in other venues. But -- and for some reason in this situation, it all seemed to come together in a particular area.
But I think the significant thing is when you look at the three people who have really testified so far that have a real stake in this between Virgie, between Larry and between Howard, I think you look at Virgie and you say she's pretty sincere about it. And you look at Larry and you say he's pretty sincere, but he's not asking, at this point, certainly, for the body.
I really do have some concerns about the things that I -- and the manner in which Howard conducted himself.
KING: Don, do you think the introduction of the drug use is germane?
CLARK: Well, I think it is germane, Larry, because I think it's all going to have to go to intent. And I don't want to get on that slippery slope of trying to interpret the law here. But I do know that it's come out in the court that there has to be some intent shown. And it's going to have to be some state of mind that's shown as to why she did certain things.
And if she was induced -- if her actions were induced by drugs and drug usage, then I think that's going to have to play a role in it.
So, clearly, if somebody aided in that situation, then that's going to have to come out, as well.
KING: Don, you ran the FBI office in Houston. Do you miss the Bureau?
CLARK: Well, I miss the people around, but I've moved on to another aspect of life, such as these types of cases. And it's a really good correlation, but it gives me a little twist, Larry, so I'm pretty happy with it.
KING: Don Clark, good seeing you again.
Thanks.
CLARK: Good seeing you, Larry.
Thank you.
KING: Up next, Anna Nicole's long time friend Jackie Hatten on today's testimony.
We'll also hear from Anna's former bodyguard and trainer.
As we go to break, a contentious moment between Howard Stern and the judge today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEIDLIN: That video we saw the other day, is that her normal state of addressing someone?
STERN: The -- what you saw on the video?
Yes, that's how Anna Nicole talks. That's how she's talked since I've known her. I mean there are times when she's more impaired than that...
SEIDLIN: More impaired than that?
STERN: There are times...
SEIDLIN: Was she impaired in that?
STERN: No. I don't think she was there.
SEIDLIN: You just said more impaired than that.
STERN: Right. More impaired than that. Exactly. Her...
SEIDLIN: Was she impaired? Was she under the influence then?
STERN: No, I don't think so.
SEIDLIN: But you just said to me she was more impaired than that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIRKHEAD: She maintained a baby book in the hospital where she wrote my name in as the daddy. And I put my thumbprint. And she put her thumbprint as the mom. And I felt sorry for Mr. Stern, because he had no role and I knew he -- but I knew his interest in her and I knew his level of interest and I didn't want to offend him.
So at that time, I asked her, I said, you know, Howard is over here. I feel kind of bad for him.
And she said, "Come here, Howard."
And she said, "You put your thumbprint here." And she wrote 'Uncle Howard' in the baby book.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Joining us now, a return visit with Alexander Denk, Anna Nicole Smith's former bodyguard, personal trainer. He said he could be the father of Anna Nicole's daughter. And Cyrus Nownejad, who is the attorney for Alexander Denk.
What's your reaction to what's going on in court, Alex?
ALEXANDER DENK, ANNA NICOLE'S FORMER BODYGUARD: It's very interesting to see what's happening, what's unfolding here. But I think the truth will come out.
KING: Do you know what Anna Nicole's wishes were with regard to burial? Did that ever come up in your relationship?
DENK: We talked about it a lot.
KING: Really?
DENK: Yes. And she always told me she wanted to be buried where her son is. If ever something should happen to her son. But she always told me she's going to die the same age as Marilyn Monroe, which was about 37 years.
I'd say why are you so selfish? Why are you saying this? I'd say what do you mean?
I'd say, well, listen, you have a son to raise.
I said what about that?
And she said well, then you and Howard take care of him.
KING: With all you see, you still think you could be the father?
DENK: There's a possibility.
KING: If you are, would you raise the child?
DENK: Yes, definitely.
KING: You would.
What, Cyrus, Alex -- why does Alex need a lawyer?
CYRUS NOWNEJAD, ATTORNEY FOR ANNA'S FORMER BODYGUARD, ALEXANDER DENK: He needs a lawyer to protect him from all the media hurrah, number one. And, secondly, also, he may potentially make a claim here.
KING: For?
NOWNEJAD: For -- well, we're debating. It depends on the circumstances here. And as I mentioned on your last show, the last time I was here, his interest was to protect her as a bodyguard and act as her personal trainer and chef. And she -- that was her wishes, too, as well, for the child.
So...
KING: If Larry Birkhead, Alex, turns out to be the father, the biological father, would it be OK for you if he raised the child?
Do you know Larry?
DENK: Yes, I know Larry. I met him a few times when I was over there and I was training Anna. And, you know, I said hello to him. He never said hello to me. I guess he was jealous, too, like some others.
KING: Jealous because you were also romantically involved?
DENK: Yes, correct.
KING: How many men do you think she was involved with during the period -- how many men could be the father?
DENK: That's a good -- I don't know...
KING: Do you think?
DENK: I don't know. All of what I see on TV, it's like -- it seems like a circus. But, you know, she was a free spirit. She was not married and, you know, she had -- she always wanted good people around her. And she decided who she wants to be with and who she doesn't.
KING: Would you say she was very sexually active?
DENK: I don't want to comment on this.
KING: OK.
Were you in love with her?
DENK: Yes, I am. KING: Would you have been with her permanently if she wanted that?
DENK: You mean...
KING: Arrange a marriage, together?
DENK: We talked about it.
KING: Do you count it funny that she apparently also talked about it with Larry Birkhead? She also talked about it with Howard Stern.
DENK: Right. And I know all those people were around, too. So maybe she tricked us all.
KING: We're going to have the prince on in a little while.
What do you make of the prince? Do you think he could be the father?
DENK: Everything is possible, right?
That's what I say, if she -- you know, she was a free spirit.
KING: Cyrus, what do you make of the whole legal mishmash here?
NOWNEJAD: Well, I think...
KING: Los Angeles, Florida, the Bahamas?
NOWNEJAD: Well, I think ultimately custody may become an issue here. Let's assume, as you just asked, let's assume Larry Birkhead is the father. I think in that case there may be a custody issue and that may come up later.
KING: Custody even if he is the father?
NOWNEJAD: Even if he is the father, potentially.
KING: Good luck, Alex.
Keep close.
DENK: Thank you very much, Larry.
KING: Thanks, Cyrus.
DENK: Thank you.
NOWNEJAD: Thanks, Larry.
KING: Joining us now, a return visit with Jackie Hatten.
Jackie is here in our studios on the other side of the room.
What's your reaction?
She's Anna Nicole's longstanding friend, a good friend for many years.
What do you make of the proceedings today in court?
JACKIE HATTEN, FRIEND OF ANNA NICOLE: Well, I just -- I think that Howard is catching himself in a little tangled web. As he did say on your show that in 2004, they had not date and that he did wish he could be her boyfriend.
And he mentioned in court, what, that he said they started dating in 2000?
I mean another lie from Howard K. Stern. Nothing surprises me anymore from this man.
KING: You're on a list of possible witnesses for proceedings in Florida. Given the judge is pushing to make a decision by Friday...
HATTEN: Correct.
KING: ... that doesn't look likely, does it?
HATTEN: You know, I -- I really hope I do get called to be a witness. I have actually called three times after speaking with Debra Opri. And she's told me that Virgie was really distraught and she really wanted me there. And so did Larry. And I really want to help my friends.
I do believe that Virgie should have the right to have her daughter's body buried in peace and with dignity. And I really hope that Larry gets his child, since the child has pretty much been abducted or kidnapped, shall we say?
And someone else has put their name on the birth certificate.
KING: Do you...
HATTEN: You know, Howard's saying that he is the father...
KING: But if...
HATTEN: ... it does not mean...
KING: Jackie...
HATTEN: ... he's the biological father.
KING: Jackie, if you're going to testify, you're going to have to get there tomorrow.
HATTEN: Exactly. Red eye is all good with me.
KING: Have you heard anything tonight? HATTEN: As of yet, no. Debra Opri is supposed to give me a call back. I did call the person three times that is scheduling witnesses and as of yet, no call back.
KING: Where do you...
HATTEN: And it's very disturbing.
KING: Where do you think Anna should be buried?
HATTEN: She did wish to be in, you know, Westwood with Marilyn Monroe. But, however, there's one plot. Everyone keeps saying that she wants to be buried next to Daniel. Of course. But nobody's mentioning her actual husband, Howard Marshall III, who she considered her husband no matter who she was dating or doing at the time.
So if Virgie has the right to take her child and bury her in Houston, that is where Anna is from, that is where J. Howard Marshall III is from and that is actually where Daniel is from, as well.
So I think that the family should have a right to have their daughter close by. And both families, actually, should have their children close by.
KING: If -- would you be shocked if paternity tests show that Howard Stern is the father?
HATTEN: I think I will fall over myself. I'll fall over and it will be over.
I just do not believe that she would ever do him. She told me that if he was the last man on Earth, it would not happen. So I will trust my friend. She has never lied to me and we've had never one ill word betwixt us over the entire 15 years of us knowing each other.
KING: Have you had...
HATTEN: So I (UNINTELLIGIBLE) my friend.
KING: They talked about compensation today.
Have you been compensated at all by anybody in the media or anywhere for coming forward?
HATTEN: No. No, sir. No, sir. I've denied -- people have asked to buy pictures for $5,000 apiece, of Anna, or of Daniel or of whatnot. I would not do it.
The only time that I did come forward was before Anna passed away when I was reaching out to her via media, because phone lines were cut, e-mails were changed and Howard was playing gatekeeper.
The only way I was able to get in contact with my friend was via the television. And that was on "E.T." before Anna passed away. So that was my only...
KING: But you weren't paid?
HATTEN: ... my only intervention.
Pardon me?
KING: Thank you -- and you weren't paid?
HATTEN: No, I was paid for that one interview...
KING: You were?
HATTEN: ... way back in the day. That was one interview.
KING: Hold on...
HATTEN: After that --
KING: So "E.T." did pay...
HATTEN: ... I was promised I wouldn't take a thing.
KING: "E.T."...
HATTEN: "E.T." did pay me, yes.
KING: OK.
HATTEN: A very substantial for one hour of...
KING: Because the other day...
HATTEN: ... a one hour interview about...
KING: All right.
The other day on the...
HATTEN: ... Daniel's memorial and eulogy.
KING: All right, let me finish.
HATTEN: Sorry, sweetie.
KING: The other day on this show, the producers of "E.T." said they do not pay guests.
HATTEN: Correct.
KING: So I'm happy you cleared that up.
HATTEN: Correct.
KING: Coming up in our second half, the Hollywood prince who says he could be Dannielynn's daddy even though he's married to Zsa Zsa Gabor.
Is this weird?
That's next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEIDLIN: When was the last time you -- you earned your own income?
STERN: I had a law practice.
SEIDLIN: What year?
STERN: Oh, until 2002.
Anna paid for most things. She paid for everything, basically.
SEIDLIN: When you bought a pair of shoes, who paid for that?
STERN: I didn't buy too many pairs of shoes, but she did.
SEIDLIN: Did she give you a credit card?
STERN: No.
SEIDLIN: She would give you cash?
STERN: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How old are you?
HOWARD K. STERN, SAYS HE COULD BE FATHER OF ANNA NICOLE SMITH'S DAUGHTER: Thirty-four.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any marriages?
STERN: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any children?
STERN: One.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How old?
STERN: Five months, sic months.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, OK. That's that little girl we always talk about, Dannielynn. All right.
STERN: So, what happened...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm glad you're keeping you sense of humor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: A lighter moment in Broward Court of Broward County today.
Joining us now in Los Angeles from his home is Prince Frederick Von Anhalt. He claims he could be the father of Anna Nicole Smith's baby. He and Zsa Zsa Gabor reside together because he is Zsa Zsa Gabor's husband.
Prince Frederick, what you make of the legal battle today?
PRINCE FREDERICK VON ANHALT, SAYS HE COULD BE FATHER OF ANNA NICOLE'S BABY: Well, I think it's a disaster, you know, what they're doing in Florida. I really do. I'm glad the judge is really a tough judge.
I mean, let's face it. You know, there is mother, you know, a mother suffering so much because she lost her daughter. You know, why is that -- why is that Howard Stern so tough on that woman? Give her the body and let the mother bury her daughter and get over it.
Why doesn't Howard Stern for Christ's sake go out, get a DNA test and get the whole circus over? He doesn't want a DNA test because he's not the father. That is -- the whole fight is all about he is not the father.
KING: Are you involved, Prince, in the fight? Are you have having a legal challenge to say you're the father?
KING: Well, I filed the papers here in Los Angeles court, and I think I could be the father. I think I'm one of the guys, you know who could claim, you know, to be the father. That is why I filled the papers. And let's see how it goes. You know, I'm ready to take the DNA test. I was even scheduled today to take to take a lie detector. I would love to do it but I was so -- in such a bad shape today, I didn't do it. I will do it tomorrow or the day after. I will do anything to prove that there is no lie, that I am telling the truth. I will prove that Howard Stern is lying his head off.
KING: But you can't prove you're the father...
VON ANHALT: I don't know what they teach in (INAUDIBLE)
KING: Prince, you can't prove you're the father?
I know the other day on Nancy Grace's show, you said that Howard and Larry both lie when they say they're the father.
How do you know they're not?
VON ANHALT: Well, it's very simple. If I tell somebody, look, you're a liar and he could prove he is not a liar, why can't he prove it? Howard Stern could fast go and have a DNA test and the whole thing is over. Why doesn't he go? KING: But, the truth is, Prince, you don't know, he doesn't know. Until you take a DNA, nobody knows who the father is, right? You can't know you're the father.
VON ANHALT: ... Larry, Larry, lets put it that way. He has the baby. He's close to the baby down there. He's in the papers as the father. You know, he's on the birth certificate. So everything is already done for Howard Stern. Let's do the -- go the last thing. Go and have the DNA test done. And if the DNA is positive, everything is over, finished.
But he doesn't do it. He wants the circus go on and on and on. And on the end he says, "Well, they make mistakes." He's going to win.
He's not going to win because we all fight until he is out.
KING: If you're the father, will you raise the baby?
VON ANHALT: I will. I mean, if it is my child, why shouldn't I raise the baby? If the court rules in my favor, I will go down to the Bahamas, pick up the girl and bring it up here to Berlin and raise it. We are going to that. I mean, listen to me, if it is my child, should I kick away my child? I have to take care of my child.
KING: What does Zsa Zsa think of that?
VON ANHALT: Well, she's very upset, of course. You know, I made a mistake. You know, I mean, I did it behind her back. She knew I knew Nicole, but she didn't know I have an affair with her. I had an affair, she is very upset.
But, look, know my wife very well. She went through so many scandals in the last 20 years, while I was mad. Now I'm also in a scandal. Now she has taupe me a little bit. And she's going to help.
KING: You claim this long relationship that you had. Did you see Anna Nicole use drugs?
VON ANHALT: Never. I never -- and if she would have -- if she would have used drugs when I was there, I would have kicked her ass. And this is why I'm so upset. If that Howard Stern always says, "I was so close to Anna Nicole Smith, I loved her so much, I took care of her," why didn't he stop her from taking drugs? Why didn't he stop her doing all the bad things? Bullshit, I'm telling you. Bullshit. This man is lying his head off. What do they in law school?
KING: Are you being compensated at all by any media? Are you being paid?
VON ANHALT: I'm not. I'm not. I have never been, never will. I don't do things like that.
In this case, I'm very upset and I want to fight it through because there is there is a suffering mother. She wants to bury her daughter. There is a suffering mother who is attacked by a lawyer, attacked by Howard Stern, her son-in-law.
Do me a favor. For Christ's sake, what do they learn in law school, to attack suffering woman? This woman is a lady. You don't after a lady. You don't do that. If he wants to fight, have a man to man fight, but don't do it with a woman. What kind of a guy is he?
KING: Thank you, Prince.
As always, you are never dull.
Prince Frederick Van Anhalt, the husband of Zsa Zsa Gabor, who could be, he says, the father of Anna Nicole Smith's baby.
Thanks, Prince.
Coming up, the king of dotcom celebrity data, including info on the Anna Nicole Smith case.
Plus, our journalists from "Court TV" and "Extra" return.
And we'll hear from the forensic expert, our friend, Dr. Cyril Wecht.
All next. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VIRGIE ARTHUR, MOTHER OF ANNA NICOLE SMITH: When I knew that she really was deep into drugs, I would have went and kidnapped her. I would have done anything I could possibly do to try and -- I mean, I went with her to the Betty Ford Clinic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Welcome back.
Our panel assembles for the rest of the show.
By the way, Barbara Walters tomorrow night.
Back with us from Ft. Lauderdale, Jean Casarez of "Court TV News"; in Plantation, Florida, Carlos Diaz, correspondent with "Extra". Joining us from Los Angeles, Harvey Levin, the managing editor of TMZ.com and in San Antonio, Texas, Dr. Cyril Wecht, forensic psychologist, attorney, former corner of Allegheny County.
We got the thoughts of Jean and Carlos earlier.
Harvey, what's your read on what happened today?
HARVEY LEVIN, TMZ.COM: Well, I think this was like a gigantic deposition for all of these cases. The judge has opened this up so much that we are getting a look into all elements of this case. And I think, Larry, drug use is a big, big deal in this case, and I think the judge opened that door. I do.
KING: Dr. Wecht, how well, in your opinion, has the medical examiner equated himself in Broward County?
DR. CYRIL WECHT, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: I think that he handled the case quite professionally. I believe that from the beginning, he tried to make it clear that he had ample material for DNA. There was no reason to have withheld the body at that time, based on the California courts ruling, subsequently into the jurisdiction of the Florida court.
I think that all the tests are being done. I'm sure they are being done thoroughly. And I think he has made it clear that the body is undergoing changes of decomposition, despite refrigeration and even despite embalming, which came eight days too late. And I have no criticism at all of the way in which it has been handled by the medical examiner's office in Broward County.
KING: Jean Casarez, what do you make of our friend, the prince?
CASAREZ: Our friend the prince. Well, he filed papers in Los Angeles. That shows an intent of seriousness right there. He's obviously not in Florida and he's not testifying, but Larry Birkhead is.
KING: And Carlos Diaz, what do you make of -- we asked Harvey off the air -- of Jackie Hatten saying that she was compensated by "ET?"
DIAZ: Well, that's the thing -- first of all, I want to make it clear that I'm being compensated by "Extra" for covering this story, so I want to make that clear right now.
KING: You work for them.
DIAZ: Yes, I do. Yes. So that's just part of the deal.
But this is kind of a slippery slope, because really, it's, you know, journalism to the highest bidder if you will, and you know, we run into that a lot, where you know, now people have heard that "ET" allegedly paid Howard K. Stern money for this. And I have been researching this story down here, talking to sources. And the first thing out of their mouth is, how much are you going to pay me? You know, I mean, it's kind of alarming.
KING: Were you surprised at what she said, Harvey?
LEVIN: I wasn't surprised. Look, I am going to tell you a dirty little secret. A lot of people pay for all sorts of things. The networks do it...
KING: "ET" denies it.
LEVIN: Well, I heard them deny it. But I've got to tell you something, we buy video from people. I'm not ashamed of that. I mean, we buy video. We are publishing a video tomorrow, Larry, that we bought. It is just part of commerce.
KING: What is it?
LEVIN: It's unbelievable. It is Anna Nicole Smith with the doctor who prescribed her the methadone, Dr. Kapoor. And wait until you see the position they are in and the state Anna Nicole looks like she is in at a social event. It is, I think, quite revealing.
KING: Do you have to outbid others?
LEVIN: That's the way this game works. And you know, we can't. We are an Internet site. But anybody who starts saying, look, we never pay for video, it's just not true.
KING: But she said she was paid directly for appearing on the show.
LEVIN: Well, and that's certainly -- I can't vouch for what she's saying. That's different. We don't pay for interviews. Because what happens is, if you pay for interviews, you're basically asking people, embellish it so you get the money.
KING: Larry Birkhead made serious allegations against Howard Stern in testimony today. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIRKHEAD: We had a couple of clashes in the hospital room, because she and Mr. Stern brought in a duffel bag, and when there wasn't enough administered through the drips that she was on, they were taken out of the bag and taken on top of the drugs that they were giving at the hospital, and thwarting the efforts by the hospital to get her off the medications.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Dr. Wecht, what do you make of these -- of the drug allegations as part of this?
WECHT: Well, there seems to be no question, Larry, based upon the testimony from a variety of people, based upon the autopsy findings of Daniel Smith and based upon the sudden, unexpected death of Anna Nicole, that drugs have been a common denominator throughout. There can be no denial of this.
We must wait and see exactly what role the drugs may have played in Anna Nicole's death. I think that we're going to find some drugs. But I have a suspicion that there may some natural disease processes also.
But it comes back, Larry, who prescribed the drugs? For whom were they prescribed? To whom were they given? What were the intentions and motives of the individual giving the drugs? And these are all questions, many of which will definitely be gone into with great probity and depth at the inquest scheduled to commence next month in Nassau, with regard to Daniel's death. So it's going to play out. And when we'll hear -- and I predict it probably will be next week, that you will have results from the medical examiner's office in Broward County about Anna Nicole's death.
KING: We have an email question from Kathy in Lincoln, Illinois -- "How did the judge in Florida come to be the person to hear this case?" Was he appointed? Did he volunteer? How did it work, Jean?
CASAREZ: It was by chance. He is a probate judge. This is a probate proceeding, and he was the next one up, so that's how he got it.
KING: We will take a break and be back with more. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STERN: In terms of medication that she took after Daniel passed, they were either in two drawers in the bathroom, or they were -- it would have been on the cabinet in the bathroom.
SEIDLIN: Did Daniel try to stop her from taking drugs?
STERN: Did Daniel try to?
SEIDLIN: Yes.
STERN: Daniel talked to his mom about that, yes.
SEIDLIN: Did he ever have success for any days?
STERN: That's what I'm saying, is it's not like Anna losing parents...
SEIDLIN: Well, can you answer my question? Did Danny have any success when he spoke to her about taking drugs?
STERN: She would go back and forth, depending on what was going on in her life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Kiran Chetry, our newest member of the CNN group, will be co-anchoring "AC 360" at the top of the hour. What's up, Kiran?
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Larry. Well, we have much more on the Anna Nicole case coming up at the top of the hour. Also, breaking through the walls of autism. We're going to find out how computer technology is opening the world of the human brain.
Plus, Hillary Clinton versus Barack Obama -- it's the fight for Hollywood and it's turning a little personal tonight. We have all that and much more coming up in just a few minutes. Larry, back to you. KING: Thanks, guys.
We have an e-mail question from Martha in Little Rock: "Do you if Dannielynne has been tested for drugs or there were any drugs in her system when she was born?"
Carlos?
DIAZ: We do not know if she's been tested for drugs, because she's down in the Bahamas and she has to stay down there. So no word on whether she's been tested for drugs, but that's actually a great question because of the drug use that came out today in court that Anna Nicole Smith used drugs during her pregnancy.
KING: Harvey, you learned something, that there was a will?
LEVIN: Yes. I mean, Larry, we got a copy of a fax that Howard K. Stern's lawyer sent, a fax with the will attached. And it looks like he may have sent it to Howard K. Stern five days before Anna Nicole Smith died.
The question -- why would his lawyer be sending that will to him when she's apparently just out of it, allegedly suicidal, not of competent, sound mind? Why is he getting the will?
Howard K. Stern was asked about this today...
KING: And?
LEVIN: And he said, well, you know, he said, I have a feeling the date on the fax is wrong. But we have that fax, and it is dated five days before she died.
KING: Dr. Wecht, isn't it strange, in the same family, a 21- year-old and a 37-year-old die?
WECHT: Well, Larry, I have had many cases over the years in which two people of a family die from drugs. If you think about it, where you have drug abuse, which is long-standing and out of control, then it really is not at all unexpected that a second person in the family, whatever the relationship may be, will also be abusing drugs. Though I don't recall exactly this kind of mother/son relationship, but two people who are in a drug-oriented family dying is not at all rare. One would not write an article and submit it to the medical literature for publication.
KING: I see. Now let's turn to Judge Seidlin, who has become one of the interesting sidebars in this case. Let's take a look at some of what he had to do today in court, and then we'll check on what kind of job he's doing and what kind of future he may have as a TV star. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEIDLIN: I'm glad that I still have a shot at (inaudible). I have got to write a will one day. Stay loose as a goose.
I'm not letting anything slip between the cup and the lip here.
But I don't want to be throwing any lawyer under the bus.
It's not who talks louder. It's who signs the report card at the end.
I want to build -- later on, you can have me with a box of tissues.
There's no circus here, my friend.
I am able to rock and roll and get through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Is he floating a TV show, Harvey?
LEVIN: He's not floating a TV show. He's auditioning for one. Larry, I can tell you that I know, that for months, his dream has been to be the judge on a courtroom television show. He's put together a reel -- before this -- put together a reel of his greatest hits inside the courtroom recorded on tape. And I even got pitched this by a buddy of his about two months ago. But who knew it was...
KING: Are you thinking he has the potential to be a female Judge Judy -- a male Judge Judy?
LEVIN: He is -- well, the name is pretty similar for starters, and he's entertaining. We did a thing on the Web site where we asked the question, we put a doily around his neck.
KING: You think it could work, in other words?
LEVIN: He's entertaining. It's having a big personality, that's what it's about
KING: We will be back with more of our panel. Hey -- nothing would surprise us. Don't go away. We will be back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIRKHEAD: And then there were other times when she would send me to the store to get something that she was craving, and I would come back and like 30 minutes later she couldn't talk. I said, what are you doing? And at one particular point, she slipped into what I call a seizure-like state, and I had to help her to the bathroom and pick her up and take her and put her -- put her...
SEIDLIN: Let's get a break for a second.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KING: We are back. OK, guys, what do we expect tomorrow, Harvey?
LEVIN: Two things. Larry Birkhead is just hitting it out of the park. And he's turning out to be the knight in shining armor, No. 1.
No. 2, you know, Nancy Grace talked today about this whole thing about this alleged break-in at the house with Ford Shelly, who is the son-in-law of G. Ben Thompson, who really owns the house in the Bahamas. You're going to see a big surprise on the stand. I think Ford Shelly is testifying tomorrow, and some documents are going to surface that are going to really cast a new light on this.
KING: But Larry Birkhead has really very little to do with burial site, doesn't he? He's going to be involved for parenthood?
LEVIN: Only intent. Only intent. And he's coming off so earnest. I mean, saying, you know, she, on the one hand, she wanted to be in L.A., but clearly, she wanted to be next to her son.
And that's, you know, you've got to give him credit, because that's what Howard Stern wants, and he's saying, look, right is right.
KING: Jean Casarez, it's very hard to dislike him, isn't it, Larry Birkhead?
CASAREZ: Yes, it is. It's very difficult. But remember, Howard K. Stern is the petitioner in this action. He is the one that brought this action, saying I want her body for burial.
KING: Yeah. Good point. What do you expect tomorrow, Carlos?
DIAZ: I would expect the judge is going to be doing a lot of talking tomorrow. He feels that he's under the gun. He has got to make a decision by tomorrow night, going into Friday. So I would expect him, as he's been doing all day today and the day before, doing a lot of questioning on his own. So expect to hear a lot from the judge tomorrow.
KING: Prediction on the decision, Jean?
CASAREZ: Whoa, that's a tough one. You know, remember, the judge can award the body to the baby. He can say that it is the baby, Dannielynn, that has the legal right to take this body. Then her guardian would obviously act in her interests, and that would work itself into her natural father being the real guardian.
KING: What do you expect, Carlos?
DIAZ: How about we award the body to Virgie Arthur, and you mandate her to bury the body in the Bahamas? Everybody wins.
KING: Not bad.
Harvey, I want to switch subjects for a minute while we have about over a minute left. What's the latest with Britney? LEVIN: Well, it's a desperate situation for her. I mean, she is a woman in crisis right now, and the latest is that Kevin Federline has actually petitioned for an emergency hearing, a custody hearing tomorrow morning in Los Angeles County Superior Court. Right now, Britney has primary physical custody, but with all that's going on, I'm guessing he's going to challenge that. And this could be a real interesting case.
KING: Does he have a shot?
LEVIN: Well, if there's proof that she's a substance abuser, and she has been in and out of rehab twice in a week, there might be some problems.
KING: What was the rap against him?
LEVIN: Well, the rap against him is basically he was a user, but he's turning out to look -- looking like the stable guy in this relationship. So he's kind of turned it around because she's self- destructing.
KING: Is that a story, Carlos, that "Extra" has left, or what does it do when you have this going on?
DIAZ: We are not afraid to break in to our Anna Nicole coverage with Britney coverage. You know, so we are with both of those, OK?
KING: And, Jean, what about Court TV? Britney is not in court, but she could be a court subject tomorrow, couldn't she?
CASAREZ: Well, she sure could. But I think our cameras right now are in Florida.
KING: Do you have a prediction on tomorrow, Jean?
CASAREZ: Well, you know, the judge said at the end of the day today he wanted the parties to fashion a remedy. Remember, this is a court of equity, and so he's going to try to get the parties to see if they can work together at all to together find a solution here.
KING: Do you, Harvey? A prediction?
LEVIN: You know, the judge is going to let this -- let Anna Nicole's body go to the Bahamas and get buried next to her son. I mean, there's a plot there, her son is there. That is what is going to happen.
KING: You think that's it?
LEVIN: I think it's done. A done deal.
KING: A fait accompli.
LEVIN: I mean, Mark Geragos said it. It does not take a rocket scientist when you look -- it's side by side. Why would you separate a mother from her son in this situation? Just nothing else is going to happen.
KING: And the focus might shift back now to Florida, L.A., and who is the father?
LEVIN: And then it shifts to that issue, and I think that is going to be a dog fight.
KING: Thank you all, very, very much.
Tomorrow night, our old friend Barbara Walters returns to LARRY KING LIVE. It will be great to have her with us again. And we invite you to stay tuned now for "AC 360," co-hosted tonight by Kiran Chetry and John King. And I believe they are both standing by. There they are! They have a new name now, the dynamic duo. John King and Kiran Chetry. It sounds sort of like a food. No, Chetry, sounds like a jelly. I like the name! OK, whatever. John, Kiran, go.
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