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Nancy Grace
Weeping Judge Rules on Anna Nicole`s Body
Aired February 22, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, bombshell in a Florida courtroom. After days of brutal legal battles, the judge breaks down on the bench while ruling. Ruling on the judge`s final decision? No decision! That`s the ruling, people! He hands it all over to a court- appointed guardian to decide. As of this hour, the remains of the 39-year- old model, Anna Nicole Smith, released to that guardian. All the parties - - the mother, the boyfriend, the lawyer -- they all make nice in front of the cameras, and then they vow to appeal. But hey, what about the body? And what about Anna Nicole Smith`s 5-month-old little girl, waiting for somebody to take her home?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE LARRY SEIDLIN, BROWARD COUNTY DISTRICT COURT: The court and its participants in the matter before -- before it have taken a long journey in a very compressed period of time. Although a host of matters have been touched on and a multitude of issues have been raised, there is only one issue before this court to decide: Who is entitled to the custody of the remains of Anna Nicole Smith?
There could be only one proper and equitable answer to that question, Dannielynn, Anna Nicole`s only child and heir, next of kin. Therefore, based on the court`s review and analysis of arguments, testimony and materials presented to it, the court orders and adjudges as follows. Dannielynn`s motion is granted. Stern`s verified (ph) petition is denied. Arthur`s motion to deny -- to dismiss is denied as moot. Arthur`s cross- petition is denied.
Richard Milstein, esquire, as the guardian ad litem for Dannielynn Hope Marshall Stern, is awarded custody of the remains of Anna Nicole Smith. Oh! The Broward County medical examiner is ordered to release those remains to Milstein in accordance with Milstein`s directives.
But here`s where Milstein is directed to consult with Arthur, Birkhead and Stern with respect to the disposition of Anna Nicole Smith`s remains. However, the manner, means, and all aspects of handling of those remains, from their release from the Broward medical examiner to their final interment, are with Milstein`s sole and absolute discretion, as guided by the best interests of Dannielynn Stern.
You`ll read it, but I want her buried. I want her buried with her son. I want to -- there`s no -- there`s no shouting. This is not a -- this is not a happy moment. I want her buried with her son in the Bahamas. I want them to be together. Oh!
You know, she had to live all her years under this kind of exposure. I just get a week-and-a-half of it, and it`s ready to flatten me down. She`s going to be with her son. She`s going to have her son next to her.
I want to just make one comment. I appreciate the help I received from all the lawyers. I appreciate your help. I appreciate the direction you gave me. And I appreciate the respect you showed the court and the state of Florida.
I have no longer any jurisdiction. It`s in Milstein`s hands. He`s being charged with -- and Dr. Perper is going to help. Dr. Perper said he`d fly with him to the Bahamas, and the sheriff`s department`s indicated they`re going to help and they`re going to work out the logistics and the details with mother -- with mother and the two gentlemen here. And I hope to God you guys give the kid the right shot!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will she be buried in the Bahamas?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have a plan for an appeal?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe there`s going to be an appeal filed very shortly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. There you heard the judge breaking down in tears from the bench, making a ruling. Final decision? No decision. Long story short, after days of legal battle, 18 attorneys in all wrangling in court, we still don`t know what will happen with Anna Nicole Smith`s remains. And somewhere tonight, her 5-month-old baby girl still doesn`t know who is her father.
Now, to all of this legal wrangling, thousands and thousands spent in court, this may be the only indication of the true intent of the parties. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNA NICOLE SMITH: First of all, she`s not my mother, she`s my birth mother. Second of all, she doesn`t know me. She doesn`t know my son. I left home when I was 15 years old. And I mean, she hasn`t seen my son since he was probably about 5 years old. and she doesn`t know him. She doesn`t know him. She doesn`t know me. For her to go out there and make these ridiculous statements about me killing my son or Howard killing my son -- who does she think she is?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anna? Anna? Anna? Look at me. Riley thinks you`ve absolutely lost your mind.
SMITH: Huh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reilly thinks you`ve lost your mind.
SMITH: I didn`t lose my mind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She thinks you have.
SMITH: I didn`t.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this a mushroom trip?
SMITH: Huh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this a mushroom trip?
SMITH: Huh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this a mushroom trip?
SMITH: What do you mean?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m kidding!
SMITH: What does that mean?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m kidding.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This footage is worth money.
SMITH: Huh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said this footage is worth money.
SMITH: Why? What footage?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This thing you`re looking into.
SMITH: That`s a camera.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Those are clips of Anna Nicole Smith from "Entertainment Tonight" and Fox News Channel. They were played in the courtroom as evidence.
Let`s find out exactly what went down in the courtroom today. Out to Court TV`s Jean Casarez. What happened? Why did the judge break down crying?
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Well, Nancy, he cares so much. He has cared so much from day one, and everything he said is always going toward the unification and the decision that he has to make. And he only had one decision to make. Under Florida law, who legally has the right to the body? He found it was the next of kin, and he found the next of kin was Dannielynn. She`s a baby, so her guardian makes the decision.
GRACE: Joining us right now, a very special guest. This is the attorney for Virgie Arthur. This is Anna Nicole Smith`s mother. His name is Tom Pirtle. He told me this afternoon, as soon as the parties came out of the courthouse, he vowed to appeal. Welcome, Tom Pirtle. Why the appeal?
TOM PIRTLE, ATTORNEY FOR ANNA NICOLE`S MOTHER, VIRGIE ARTHUR: Good to talk to you, Nancy. We`re working on the appeal right now.
GRACE: Why?
PIRTLE: Well, Virgie feels, looking at the statutes in the state of Florida, that she should have been awarded custody of Anna Nicole`s body to bury her body back home in Texas.
GRACE: Now, you`ve taken a very careful look at the statute, of what the law -- not what happened in this courtroom, of what the law said should happen. Why are you so convinced you should file an appeal?
PIRTLE: Well, here`s the deal. There is really not any factual inquiry that should have went on as to what the intent is. Florida has a specific statute that prioritizes who can pick up a body. And the statute says that if the -- if there`s a sibling over 18 years of age, then the sibling`s entitled to the body. If there`s a parent, absent that, then the parent gets it. But what the judge did, he applied the unclaimed body statute that the county uses for burying indigent people when Broward County`s paying for the funeral. And under that statute, you go under the laws of intestate passage, which means that a minor can claim the body. And he appointed an ad litem from Florida to represent Dannielynn.
GRACE: Bottom line, Tom Pirtle has vowed to appeal. He represents Anna Nicole Smith`s biological mother. Tom, the reality is, the body needs to be buried.
PIRTLE: You`re absolutely right. And saying I "vowed to appeal" is somewhat of a misstatement. We`re going to appeal. We`re going to take a shot. It has to happen very, very quickly (INAUDIBLE) She needs to be buried. Virgie realizes that and recognizes that her body needs to be placed in the ground.
GRACE: Back out to Jean Casarez, Court TV news correspondent, in the courtroom today. Jean Casarez, what can you tell me about yet another hearing for tomorrow morning? Does it never end?
CASAREZ: That`s right. And this is family court now in Ft. Lauderdale. The attorneys for Larry Birkhead are trying to get a California order on paternity recognized by the Florida courts, and that order says that little baby Dannielynn has to be tested for DNA either in the Bahamas or here in Florida. And they want the Florida judge to work with Bahamian authorities to try to make that happen.
GRACE: Jean -- Jean not just reporter, Jean also a practicing lawyer. Jean, have you ever heard of a little thing called jurisdiction?
CASAREZ: Yes, I have. And I`ve also heard of the Hague convention. And they believe that under the Hague convention and they believe that the government of the Bahamas will want to work with us on this issue.
GRACE: OK, out to you. Joining us also, Randy Kessler. He is also an expert in family law. One question. Where`s the baby? And doesn`t that mean that location has jurisdiction?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY AND FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Sometimes. You know, spoken like a true lawyer, right? Generally, you want to go where the baby is, but paternity statutes vary. For instance, in Georgia and other states, you can sue for paternity where the child is or even where the child may have been conceived, which opens it up to a wide range of possibilities...
GRACE: Can I ask you something, what Florida has to do with that?
KESSLER: Well, Florida -- maybe the child was conceived there. Maybe the DNA`s there...
GRACE: It wasn`t. The child was not conceived there, according to all the parties involved. Nobody has said that. She just happened to be there when she died, Randy!
KESSLER: But what`s...
GRACE: Why are you doing a back flip to find jurisdiction in Florida?
KESSLER: I`m not defending, what I`m defending is cooperation between courts. The Hague convention is one statute. There are a lot of statutes that tell courts, Cooperate. When have you multi-jurisdictional issues, cooperate. Find out who the dad is, and everything else falls into place. You don`t need a guardian if you know who the father of the child is.
GRACE: Kathleen Mullin, also joining us, from the New York jurisdiction. Why is everybody afraid to say the simple truth? Florida does not have jurisdiction over the paternity test. The child`s in the Bahamas. The conception was in California, according to anybody that claims to be the father.
KATHLEEN MULLIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, you`re correct. They don`t have jurisdiction. But what they do have, and we have seen, is not only a judge who`s willing to cry, but a judge who is willing to handle these matters in a somewhat casual fashion and try his best to stretch the law out and accommodate all of these issues. He`s going to try to finesse this, and the lawyers have seen that from him.
And you know, frankly, they`re wise to get his cooperation on this issue, which is going to be so difficult for them if they actually have to follow the letter of the law.
GRACE: Take a listen to what the judge had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEIDLIN: Dannielynn`s motion is granted. Stern`s verified (ph) petition is denied. Arthur`s motion to deny -- to dismiss is denied as moot. Arthur`s cross-petition is denied. Richard Milstein, esquire, as the guardian ad litem for Dannielynn Hope Marshall Stern, is awarded custody of the remains of Anna Nicole Smith.
I want her buried. I want her buried with her son. I want her -- there`s no shouting. This is not -- this is not a happy moment. I want her buried with her son in the Bahamas. I want them to be together. Oh!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Art Harris, standing by, also in court today, along with Jean Casarez. I don`t get it. The judge says, I`m not ruling, I`m handing it over to a guardian ad litem. But by the way, I want her buried in the Bahamas, OK? Get to it. Skedaddle. What`s going on?
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Nancy, he`s ruled that the child is the next of kin, and she has the right to where -- to dictate where the mother is going to be buried.
GRACE: OK...
HARRIS: And the guardian speaks...
GRACE: Problem. She`s 5 months old. She can`t speak.
HARRIS: OK. That`s why you`ve got a guardian ad litem, Nancy.
(CROSSTALK)
HARRIS: ... next to her half-brother is what he believes is the best interests (INAUDIBLE)
HARRIS: So he is speaking for the child, as you know. And everyone - - he found that Howard K. Stern was credible. He found that Larry Birkhead was credible in describing that this was her wish, to be buried next to Daniel. So that is -- that is consistent with his belief that the mother should be buried there where the baby is and with her son.
GRACE: But then why are we going to a guardian? If he`s made the decision, why is the guardian -- back out to you, Kathleen Mullin? Why the guardian?
MULLIN: ... want to take the responsibility, Nancy. This is a judge who, as much as I am all for his style, he wants everybody to like him. He wants everybody to get along. And if he makes a decision, he`s definitely going to have people who don`t like him. So he dumps it in Milstein`s lap and he gives his nod to the Bahamas and says, I would like her buried in the Bahamas. Who cares, Judge? We don`t care what you would like. We would want you to make a decision. But I agree with you, he really hasn`t done that. He`s dumped it off on poor Milstein, who if he knows what`s good for him, will run as fast as he can.
GRACE: Joining us tonight, a man you`ve come to know very well, a renowned forensic pathologist, Dr. Joshua Perper. He is the chief medical examiner, along with the team that performed the autopsy, and throughout this proceeding has been one of the few people that have no self-interest in the case and has called from day one for embalming of the body for burial.
Dr. Perper, you took it upon yourself to volunteer to accompany the body. Why do you feel that may be necessary?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, BROWARD COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: I didn`t volunteer, just to be precise. The judge asked me on the bench, in an aside, to be -- he volunteered me.
GRACE: Ah.
PERPER: And yes, there`s a difference.
GRACE: It sure is.
PERPER: We try to cooperate always with the judicial decision. And if the judge feels that I can help him, I will.
GRACE: With us, Dr. Joshua Perper.
We are taking your calls. Very quickly, out to Denise in Alabama. Hi, Denise.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, friend.
GRACE: Hi.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is this -- the judge`s motive for just simply passing the buck and giving the guardian ad litem the chance to make the decision where this body is going to be buried.
GRACE: That`s exactly what he did. And what`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you think he did that? I`m kind of thinking that...
GRACE: You know what -- no, I want to hear your theory. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m kind of thinking -- I watched this afternoon, and he seemed to be very sympathetic to Anna Nicole`s mother. I don`t know that -- if he didn`t maybe do it to see if the guardian ad litem may take her body to Texas to appease Anna Nicole`s mother.
GRACE: Very interesting. I got the clear impression he wanted it to go out to the Bahamas. But you know what? We need a shrink on the thinking of the judge. When we get back, we`ll have psychoanalyst Dr. Bethany Marshall.
But as we go to break, something urgent. I want you to take you to tonight`s "Case Alert." A 34-year-old missing Michigan mother of two, Tara Grant, vanishing from her suburban home just hours after coming home from a business trip. Now, police do say she and her husband argued just before she allegedly left their home, got into a sedan and disappeared from Michigan suburbia. Grant, 5-5, 120 pounds, brown hair, brown eyes. Please take a look at Tara. If you have information, call the Macomb County sheriff 586-307-9358.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY BIRKHEAD, ANNA NICOLE`S FORMER BOYFRIEND: I just told her over and over, I said, Don`t. Something`s going to happen to you. Something`s going to happen to. And sometimes I didn`t even know if she was going to live, and they kept bringing more and more drugs in the house.
SEIDLIN: Let`s say you`re the father. You think you can develop a relationship with Mr. Stern?
(CROSSTALK)
BIRKHEAD: You know, I have -- there`s a lot of hurt and heartache. I missed the delivery of my child. I had to pay $4.99 for a magazine to see what my child looks like. And the more he fights me and the more it takes, the less likely (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, the final ruling? No ruling, as we wait to determine what will happen to the remains of Anna Nicole Smith and who is the father of her child.
On the lines. Tammy in Florida. Hi, Tammy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Yesterday, Larry Birkhead testified under oath that Howard Stern sneaked drugs into the hospital to a pregnant Anna Nicole while she was undergoing detox treatment. Couldn`t this alone be grounds for criminal charges against Howard Stern?
GRACE: Out to Don Clark. You all know Don Clark very well from being a regular here on the show, former head of the FBI Houston bureau. Don Clark, thanks for being with us. You were in court with Virgie Arthur. Could you take that call?
DON CLARK, WORKING WITH VIRGIE ARTHUR`S LEGAL TEAM: Well, you know, I heard exactly what she said, and yes, there`s a possibility that there could be criminal charges here. There are a lot of issues there that also could lead themselves to criminal charges.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She asked for the casket to be opened. I don`t know who opened the casket. But after that, she started screaming. I don`t remember a lot of the exact words, but I know that she literally jumped into the casket, her body on top of Daniel, and tried to hug him and pull him up, and started screaming, basically calling him Pumpkin (ph) and it just -- she was on top of the casket, hanging by the straps.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Today, the final decision in court, no real decision, decision pushed off on a so-called guardian ad litem appointed by the judge. Still no real answers as to the remains of Anna Nicole Smith or the paternity of her child.
Back out to Don Clark, formerly with the FBI. He accompanied Virgie Arthur in court. Don, welcome back to the show. What was it like being in the courtroom by Virgie`s side? Did she ever have the feeling that she was the underdog in these proceedings?
CLARK: Well, I think she did. You know, Nancy, I spent a lot of time with her during these proceedings, and I think right after the ad litem was picked, I know that Virgie sort of felt like that, you know, Why is this happening? Because in every situation that most of us have seen -- and you`ve been in court, too -- judges don`t want to abdicate their authority to anybody. They want to keep that authority. And all of a sudden now, the judge wasn`t going to make a decision. And throughout the trial, you could see a different case there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEBRA OPRI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You`re entitled to know that, your honor, under the statute of your state.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have an order from California that authorizes you to do that.
(CROSSTALK)
LARRY SEIDLIN, BROWARD COUNTY JUDGE: Sit down! Sit down! I don`t need echo. I love clarity.
OPRI: I am telling you, you have a responsibility to adhere to your own laws.
SEIDLIN: I`m not going to be blindsided.
OPRI: Your honor, this is not fair to me.
SEIDLIN: Don`t test me anymore. Don`t test me. I`ve been tested by the best. So don`t test me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good lord in Heaven. And finally, at the end of it all, still no decision. The decision handed off to a guardian ad litem, a Mr. Millstein appointed by the court. We still don`t know, a, what`s going to happen to the remains and, b, who is the father of this child.
I want to go out to Dr. Joshua Perper, the chief medical examiner. Dr. Perper, when do you believe the body will be handed over to the guardian?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, BROWARD COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: Absolutely.
GRACE: When?
PERPER: Unless an appeal is going to block this action.
GRACE: When do you think the body will be handed over?
PERPER: Well, we already started in our office preparation. There are documents which we already issued that the body can be transported. And we already spoke with the vital statistics office to expedite to sending of an official death certificate.
So things are moving. And once I receive -- I received already an order from the judge to give the body to the guardian ad litem. So if there`s no appeal, this is going to happen probably within one day or two.
GRACE: Well, I can guarantee you, Dr. Perper, there is going to be an appeal. Mr. Pirtle right here on the show, Virgie Arthur`s lawyer, has said there will be an appeal. I don`t know how long that`s going to take.
But I`ve got a question for you. Before you can issue a death certificate, don`t you need the cause of death? When will you get those toxicology reports back?
PERPER: No, well, I don`t need a cause or manner of death, because the issue -- what`s called a pending death certificate, which is valid until I fill in the cause and manner of death. And the pending death certificate is filed with the vital statistics office.
GRACE: You know, Dr. Perper, I don`t believe there`s been a single night you have been on our show that you haven`t taught me something I didn`t know about the law and about the way this whole affair will function. So you can issue a pending death certificate until you get back the toxicology report?
PERPER: Correct. That`s routine procedure.
GRACE: Interesting. Now, when do you think you`ll get that toxicology report? I still can`t get it out of you what was in the urinalysis, so I guess I`m going to have to wait like everybody else.
PERPER: Well, you know, I don`t like to have a product which is half baked. And I`ll have the results, and I`m confident, based on the information that we have so far, I am confident that I`m going to be able to come up with a very clear determination of the cause of death.
In other words, what exactly happened to cause the death, this unfortunate death, and also determination of the manner of death, whether it`s natural or unnatural, you know, suicide, accident, homicide, and so on. And I`m going to do this determination most likely within 10 to 14 days, so I`ll deal within the span of time which initially I estimated.
GRACE: Now, Dr. Perper, I was watching the proceedings today live as they happened, and I noticed you came into the courtroom later on in the day. Why were you summoned to the courtroom?
PERPER: Because the judge asked me to come.
GRACE: About what?
PERPER: Well, my understanding is that the judge was about to make his decision, and he called me because, while in his written decision there`s no provision to require me to do anything, except to give the body to the guardian ad litem, in his remarks on the bench, he said or he requested me to accompany the guardian to the Bahamas.
So why he didn`t make -- why he did not make a decision directly, I think that he achieved the same kind of result indirectly, because the guardian is going to receive the body from us, is going to take the body, and is going to fly to the Bahamas. And there the body is going to be buried, and that`s probably an additional reason why he wanted me to fly with the guardian.
GRACE: You know, Dr. Perper, I notice you did not mention when you believed you`ll get the toxicology report back.
PERPER: Well, look, the toxicology reports are a series of reports which are coming all the time in.
(CROSSTALK)
PERPER: We already received a significant number of toxicology reports, and we are still waiting for some which are done at outside laboratories.
GRACE: With us tonight, Dr. Joshua Perper.
Let`s go to the lines and find out your questions tonight. Out to Sandy in Delaware. Hi, Sandy.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you. What`s your question, dear?
CALLER: My question is, I can understand why Anna Nicole`s mother has played such a huge part in this court case, but could you explain why Larry Birkhead is there? Was he seeking guardianship of the body? Or why he is such a focal point of this trial?
GRACE: Jean Casarez, explain how Birkhead got into the mix. Just a few days ago, his attorney announced this is not our fight, so how did this happen?
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: It`s a tough issue, it really is, because he`s not a party, but it goes with the guardian ad litem, because the guardian ad litem shouldn`t have be there. It should be the natural father. And because Larry Birkhead has filed that paternity action, the judge allowed him to be in the room, because he could be the natural parent to step in the shoes of that guardian at some point.
GRACE: Also to you, Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, Bethany, it seems to me that the mother and the daughter, Virgie Arthur and Anna Nicole Smith, had very, very different views of their relationship.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Yes. Well, you know, when you try to understand these divergent points of view, you have to interpret everything through Anna Nicole Smith`s severe drug addiction. So the judge had the clips played of her saying that she didn`t like her mother, hated her mother, the mother hadn`t seen the grandson in a long, long time.
Was it that Anna Nicole Smith really hated her mother? Or had her mother tried to intervene in terms of drug abuse and, because of that, Anna Nicole Smith was vilifying the mother?
So it`s important to interpret everything, even the fact that Anna Nicole Smith bought the grave plots in the Bahamas. Did she really want to be buried there? Or was she trying to evade drug testing in the United States? Was she really married to Howard Stern, or was she just with him because he was her supplier? So you have to take all these divergent points of view and think of them in terms of how a drug addict thinks and what motivates the drug addict.
GRACE: Well-put. Bethany Marshall joining us, psychoanalyst out of L.A.
Let`s go down live to the Bahamas. Standing by in Nassau, you know him well, Mike Brooks. He`s been on the case from the very beginning, too. Mike Brooks, have you seen any movement there regarding preparations for a funeral?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: No preparations for a funeral as of yet, Nancy. A source here told me that, if the body came down here forthwith, that most likely there`s a possibility, not etched in stone yet, that this funeral could be Monday. But, again, that`s a possibility.
But we did see a small step forward, if you will, in the whole guardianship issue dealing with Dannielynn. Today, there was a hearing, started at 2:00. And there were some attorneys for the parties that we`ve all seen the last number of days. They were here in the Bahamas, Wayne Munroe, representing Howard Stern, Jamal Davis and Desmar Henfield representing Virgie Arthur. Emmerick Knowles (ph) was here representing Larry Birkhead. And Godfrey Propender (ph), who is representing G. Ben Thompson, and that`s a whole other story, Nancy.
GRACE: And we`ll be right back to Mike Brooks.
Very quickly, it`s Trial 101. With us tonight, lawyer Tom Pirtle, a veteran trial lawyer, says he`ll appeal, but it will be an expedited or rushed appeal. Even he agrees that is necessary for the burial of Anna Nicole Smith.
Once again, please help us in the search for a Michigan mother who vanished just hours after coming home from a business trip. She vanishes from suburban Detroit, 34-year-old Tara Grant, last seen Feb. 9. Take a look. She`s 5`6", 120 pounds, brown hair, brown eyes. If you have information on Tara Grant, please call 586-307-9358.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY BIRKHEAD, CLAIMS TO BE FATHER OF DANNIELYNN: She stressed to us the urgency of wanting to move and asked me to talk with my attorney in Myrtle Beach what the laws were to unwed mothers and what father`s rights were. She told us that she was pregnant later with his child and that she did not want him to have any rights to the child.
So Anna was (INAUDIBLE) still is, and we love her. And we, of course, called the attorney, but we found out she had no protection. So Howard was not there yet, but Howard came. And Howard had talked to my attorney, Tracy Fitcher (ph) with the Wilcox Law Firm (ph), and found out that South Carolina would not be beneficial. I suggested the Bahamas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Is that really the only reason they moved to the Bahamas, where Daniel happened to die? Much the same reason they`re in Florida now with this hearing, where Anna Nicole Smith gratuitously passed away. Out to an expert in his field of wills and probate, joining us tonight, special guest Jeff H. Skatoff.
Jeff, are you surprised at the judge`s ruling? You`re more familiar with Florida probate law than any of us.
JEFFREY SKATOFF, WILL AND PROBATE ATTORNEY: I`m not surprised at all, Nancy. The judge basically had to decide the issue of who is next of kin under Florida law, was that her daughter, represented by the guardian, or was it Virgie Arthur, and the judge decided that it would be the guardian.
The second issue that the judge did not decide was, where did she want to be buried? The judge did not make that decision as a matter of law, but he did make detailed, factual findings that Anna Nicole wanted to be buried in the Bahamas so that, if the appellate court, if this case gets appealed, decides that the judge should have made that decision, there are factual findings in the record that the appellate court can rely on and order that the body be buried in the Bahamas.
GRACE: Oh, so you`re saying the appellate court, when Mr. Pirtle appeals, who`s also with us tonight, Virgie Arthur`s lawyer, that the appellate court can rule based on the record that she`ll be buried in the Bahamas?
SKATOFF: Certainly. If the appellate court decides that Judge Seidlin should have made the decision as to where Anna Nicole wanted to be buried, which I think there is support for in Florida law, Judge Seidlin put detailed, factual findings in the record for the court to rely on that, so it`s a pretty clever ruling in that regard. It`s well-done.
GRACE: I see. Back out to you, Jean Casarez. Tomorrow morning, there`s another hearing. About?
CASAREZ: This is chapter two. Now we`re all segueing into chapter two now. And it is paternity. Now, you`re going to have in court Larry Birkhead, his lawyers, but guess what? Howard K. Stern I believe is on the way back to the Bahamas. He`s there now. And paternity law in the Bahamas is much different than the United States. He is presumed to be the father.
The court can order a DNA test of the baby, but as the physical custodian can say, no, I am not going to allow the child to have a DNA test. And the court and the judge then takes notice of that.
So here`s the question: Is the government going to work with the U.S. or are they not? And, if so, is Howard K. Stern going to work with the government? If not, it`s a big problem.
GRACE: You`re not kidding. Out to the lines. Patty in Kentucky, hi, Patty.
CALLER: Hi, I want you to know I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you.
CALLER: OK, my question is, if Howard K. Stern is evicted from the house in the Bahamas...
GRACE: Which he will be.
CALLER: ... what becomes of baby Dannielynn?
GRACE: Good question. Let`s go out to you, Kathleen Mullin. What do you think?
KATHLEEN MULLIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think, I mean, obviously, if Howard has the baby, the baby will go with Howard to the next place where he goes. I think he will be evicted from the house, and I don`t know whether or not the Bahaman authorities will require him to cooperate in any way with the paternity testing that seems to me should be done and may be ordered by the Florida court.
GRACE: Elaine in Arizona, hi, Elaine.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CALLER: OK. My question is that the guardian that was appointed for the baby, how long will that guardian be the guardian for the baby, number one?
GRACE: Good question.
CALLER: Number two, would that -- would the guardian be the one calling the shots for the funeral? As far as the movie -- the videos and the movies, and all the other stuff that...
GRACE: That`s a very good question. Out to you, Don Clark. What do you think?
DON CLARK, FORMER HEAD OF FBI HOUSTON BUREAU: Well, I can tell you, the one thing that the guardian has already done is he has already asked the parties in question, look, what would you like to see happen at the funeral? He`s broken it down into some categories, even to dress, and into location, and the type of activities that they would like to see, and who would be on the invitation list to come to this semi-private ceremony. So he has tried to ensure that that`s going to take place.
GRACE: Good to know. Out to you, Shannon in West Virginia. Hi, Shannon.
CALLER: Good evening. I have a question regarding this guardian ad litem.
GRACE: OK.
CALLER: He is appointed to represent the interests of this infant child. Why is he not taking steps to acquire the DNA to move this paternity along?
GRACE: You know, that is an excellent question. Tom Pirtle, what can you tell us about that?
TOM PIRTLE, ATTORNEY FOR VIRGIE ARTHUR: The problem is the baby, and this is driving Virgie crazy. It`s is in the Bahamas, so, really, the court doesn`t have jurisdiction over the person or the baby.
So the guardian ad litem can`t compel or obtain a sample of the baby`s DNA unless he can get the cooperation of the Bahaman government and also get the cooperation of Mr. Stern. And also, quite honestly, the judge, in order to get the two alleged fathers there, made a deal with him that he wouldn`t push on the interest of paternity during this case, which I was disappointed about, because we want to know who the father is. You know, the family wants to know who the father is. And we`re sitting there looking at two fathers, and everybody knows there can only be one father. And we would like to know who the real dad is.
GRACE: Does Virgie have a belief as to who the father is?
PIRTLE: We have developed a belief, and Virgie has developed a belief as to who the father is.
GRACE: Birkhead?
PIRTLE: You got it. We believe fairly strongly that Larry Birkhead is the father, and Larry Birkhead has reached out -- you might have noticed during the coverage -- to Virgie and has indicated to us that, if I was the father, we wouldn`t have a problem here. We could figure out how to bury the remains of Anna Nicole, too.
GRACE: And to you, Randy Kessler, what`s the likelihood the Bahaman government will go along with this court decision tomorrow on paternity?
RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, there`s a lot of full faith and credit arguments. And, of course, the Bahamas wants the United States to recognize and enforce its orders.
GRACE: So is that a yes or a no? Will they go along with it, do you think?
KESSLER: I think it`s in their interest to go along with it and to give full faith and credit to the orders of the United States. I think they will.
GRACE: Very quickly to Darlene in Florida. Hi, Darlene.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. You`re my idol. What I`d like to know is, who will cover all of the expenses for the funeral?
GRACE: That`s a really good question.
CALLER: The guardian ad litem, you know, is asking the family for what they would like to do and see and get, but who covers all these expenses if all the money`s tied up?
GRACE: Let`s go out to Art Harris. Any idea, Art?
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Well, these are not wealthy people. Larry Birkhead said he makes $70,000, $80,000 a year as a photographer. Virgie Arthur is a sheriff`s deputy well into retirement.
So that is going to be a factor. Maybe, you know, so it`s a very good question. But, Nancy, what happened today, beyond all the criticism, this judge brought these parties together. They`re talking for the first time. You`ve got two potential fathers who are talking, and they`ll come up with some plan.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD K. STERN, ANNA NICOLE SMITH CONFIDANTE: I just want to say that I`m very grateful that Anna Nicole`s wishes are going to be carried out. She`s going to be in the Bahamas with her son, and that`s all that matters.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s go to the Bahamas, standing by, Mike Brooks. Mike, was anything done regarding guardianship today in the Bahamas? What happened to the court hearing?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: Basically, Nancy, it was just all procedural. It lasted about two hours, all procedural, just on deciding how they`re going to go about deciding the guardianship. But there really wasn`t much done today.
In fact, one of the attorneys -- now, when I asked, you know, who`s going to be here on Monday? Because it`s been continued until 12:30 on Monday. And I think we`re going to see some of the same witnesses we`ve been seeing over the last week. He said, basically, if you`re not here, you`re not going to be heard, which said to me, you better be here.
GRACE: And to you, Dr. Bethany Marshall, final thoughts?
MARSHALL: Well, I was thinking about why they`ve all come together here at the end. You know, the saying power corrupts, absolutely power corrupts absolutely. As long as Howard Stern had all of the power, he really abused it, and now the power is where it belongs, with the baby. Babies should have power.
And hopefully that will be used in the service of a better situation, and that`s why everybody has come together, is the power is allocated correctly at this point.
GRACE: Well-put, Dr. Bethany Marshall.
Tonight let`s stop to remember Army Staff Sergeant Terrence Dunn, 38, Houston, Texas, killed, Iraq. Second tour of duty, he also served in Bosnia, Africa, and Korea, receiving the Purple Heart and the Army Commendation. Dunn loved wrestling, movies, road trips, especially with his sister. He leaves behind a grieving widow, Angela, two brothers and two sisters who say he was adventurous and honorable. Terrence Dunn, American hero.
Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. Tonight, a special trip to the New York control room. Happy birthday, Liz and Courtney, happy birthday to you.
Good night, everybody. Good night, friend.
END
