Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Appeals Court Affirms Anna Nicole Bahamas Burial
Aired February 28, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. A bombshell ruling goes down just hours ago, covergirl Anna Nicole Smith countdown to be buried with her young son, Daniel, in the Bahamas, an appeals court rejecting arguments from Smith`s mother, who wanted her girl buried in Texas, siding with the court-appointed guardian of her 6-month-old baby girl, Dannielynn. Tonight, Nicole Smith`s body still under tight security in a Florida morgue, heading to the Bahamas for burial services reportedly on Friday.
And tonight, a legal doubleheader. A separate judge hands down another decision: Florida has no jurisdiction to force a DNA sample paternity test for the little baby. The paternity fight tonight heads to the Bahamas with the body.
And tonight, outrage in Colorado. A 5-month-old boy sold for a car? The suspect, the baby`s own mother. People, since when is a baby a deposit on a Dodge Intrepid!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say this woman, Irene Lerma, and her husband, Jose, purchased the baby from Nicole Uribe. Uribe gave birth five months ago. In court documents, Uribe claims she was adopting her child out to the Lermas. She accepted $1,500 from the couple, $500 of which was supposed to be a down payment for this Dodge Intrepid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight.
Tonight, first to the battle over the battle over covergirl Anna Nicole Smith`s 6-month-old baby girl and the $475 million she`s set to inherit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the case of Virgie Arthur versus Richard Milstein and Howard Stern, 4D07-715, the court has entered an order lifting the stay and is issuing an opinion the effect of which will allow the remains of Anna Nicole Smith to be delivered to the guardian ad litem for burial in the Bahamas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s conceivable under Florida law for a child to have two fathers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have an inclination to prefer a finding of parentage, particularly in the case where this little girl has -- her mom is deceased and there`s no certainty with regard to the father, and that`s probably a better reason why it needs to be established.
DEBRA OPRI, ATTORNEY FOR LARRY BIRKHEAD: I believe there`s only one father. I believe there can only be one father, and I believe that father is Larry Birkhead. And I believe once that paternity issue is resolved, Dannielynn is going home to California.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, as of right now, the body of Anna Nicole Smith is set to head to the Bahamas. Sources say as early as 10:30 AM on Friday, a burial, finally putting an end to a legal saga that got way out of control.
Let`s go to Court TV`s Jean Casarez. She`s been on the case from the very beginning. Jean, what happened? A legal doubleheader.
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: That`s right. Well, first of all, Nancy, the appeals court late this afternoon affirmed the lower court`s ruling, which means, just as you said, that body now is going back to the Bahamas. They affirmed the decision by basically saying, We`re going to look at the intent of Anna Nicole Smith. We`re not going to look at statutes because we don`t think any statutes fit here. But it was her oral intent. She told people where she wanted to be buried, and that was right next to her son, Daniel, in the Bahamas.
GRACE: I think it`s very clear once the court heard this. Take a listen, Jean.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNA NICOLE SMITH: You want to hear my child life? You want to hear all the things she did to me? You want to hear all the things she let my father do to me, or my brother do to me or my sister, all the beatings, the whippings and the rape? That`s my mother. That`s my mom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you want to say to her?
SMITH: I want to say to her, How dare you, bitch! How dare you! That`s what I want to say. Come after me. Come on, get yours. You know what? I used to cry after you. I used to cry after you from the day -- even when I`m a baby girl, I cried for you. And you ask Howard. I cry for my mom. I cry for my mom when I saw her on CNN and I saw how evil she was and evil she looked. All of that is gone now. All of it`s going away. So bring it on, Momma, Mommy dearest!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The intent clear with Anna Nicole Smith`s own words. That was the interview actually played in open court last week, an interview Anna Nicole Smith gave to "Entertainment Tonight" back in October, where Smith is talking about the estrangement she had with her mother, Virgie Arthur, who turned into a courtroom litigant battling for the body of her daughter.
Let`s unleash the lawyers tonight. Joining us, James Neavitt -- this is Howard K. Stern`s lawyer, that is the legal executor, according to the will, of Anna Nicole Smith`s estate -- Courtney Anderson out of Texas, Daniel Horowitz out of San Francisco, and probate expert Jeff H. Skatoff joining us there at the courthouse in West Palm Beach, Florida.
To you, Jeff Skatoff. Once you hear that sound, that interview from Anna Nicole Smith, it makes it very clear one thing she didn`t want, her mother controlling her or anything to do with her. But how did the court reconcile the mom being the next of kin with Anna Nicole Smith`s wishes?
JEFFREY H. SKATOFF, WILL AND PROBATE ATTORNEY: Well, the appellate court said that who the next of kin is is really not what`s important for figuring out where she needed to be buried. What was important -- what is important is where did Anna Nicole want to be buried. And the court -- the appellate court, relying on the factual findings of the lower court, decided that that was in the Bahamas, next to her son, Daniel. I think it was an easy decision for the court to reach and certainly the right decision, in my opinion.
GRACE: Also with us tonight is a very special guest, Roberta Mandel. This is Virgie Arthur`s appellate attorney. She took the case all the way, all the way up the chain to this appellate court, arguing -- welcome, Roberta Mandel. You know what? You had more than a leg to stand on with Virgie Arthur really being the next of kin, along with Dannielynn. Did you suspect this would be the outcome?
ROBERTA MANDEL, APPELLATE ATTORNEY FOR VIRGIE ARTHUR: I really didn`t. I didn`t. I had high hopes because first having the petition accepted, when the court ordered the respondents to respond, it gave us hope. And then when oral argument was set, which is totally unprecedented, it gave us enormous hope. So this was really a surprise to us, unpleasant surprise.
GRACE: Very unpleasant. And of course, Roberta, I can tell by your demeanor that you personally are very disappointed in the outcome. Why?
MANDEL: I`m very disappointed because I am a mother. I know many families that are estranged from other family members. And I`ll tell you, everybody should go out and write a will and make sure that that intent is very well known. What has happened to the sanctity of the family today in this ruling is very sad.
GRACE: With us tonight, special guest, this is Anna Nicole`s mom`s appellate lawyer. She`s an appellate expert. If you look up Roberta Mandel, you`ll find out she`s handled many, many, countless appeals. They`re a whole different animal than trying a case in front of a jury. Typically, in an appellate court, you don`t have witnesses, you don`t have exhibits, you don`t have moving, closing and opening statements. You have to, look, know the law like the back of your hand, and that is Mandel`s expertise.
Back to you, Roberta Mandel. A lot of legal eagles watching. Clearly, you can see that Anna Nicole Smith does not like her mother. But a lot of the thinking was that in the last years of her life, she was no longer in control of her own destiny. Was that Virgie`s thinking, that she had become so out of it, she didn`t understand what was happening?
MANDEL: Absolutely, especially when you look at the tape, when she`s talking about her mother. It`s sad. You know, there are many families that have been separated because of drug abuse, and she was clearly under the influence of something, some substance there. So it`s very troubling.
GRACE: Also joining us tonight, a special guest you have come to know over the airwaves -- I came to know him many years ago -- renowned pathologist Dr. Joshua Perper. He`s the chief medical examiner there in Broward County, who along with a team, performed over six hours of autopsy on the 39-year-old covergirl after her sudden and unexpected death.
Dr. Perper, question regarding cause of death. Reports are out that Anna Nicole Smith actually died of pneumonia, which would largely explain her 105-degree fever just before her death. Is that true?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, BROWARD COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: Nancy, there are a lot of supposition and wild assertions which don`t rely on anything but imagination. No one has provided any substance to what they are saying, and I made the decision not to address every one of those wild suppositions.
GRACE: So are you telling me, Dr. Perper, that that, at this juncture, is not officially the cause of death, pneumonia is not the official cause of death?
PERPER: I am not going to discuss them at all...
GRACE: OK.
PERPER: ... because if I start to discuss them, I start to refute them, and I give grounds for additional rumors, which I don`t want to do.
GRACE: You know what...
PERPER: All I can say is...
GRACE: Go ahead.
PERPER: All those rumors are really unfounded. They don`t have any leg to stand on.
GRACE: You know -- to Jean Casarez with Court TV -- Dr. Perper`s absolutely right. Now there are rumors floating that the official and final cause of death has been issued. We`ve got Perper right here tonight with us on our program saying that has not happened. Where is all the supposition that she died of pneumonia coming from, Jean?
CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, I think it`s tabloid publications, is what I think. Where they`re getting it, who knows, because you`ve got the expert right there. And it is the toxicology report that he is awaiting, and he has told everyone that as soon as everything is compiled, he will make it public.
GRACE: You know, Jean Casarez, there`s also been reports of settlement talk between Howard Stern and Larry Birkhead, both claiming to be the biological father of this little girl set to inherit about a half a billion -- that`s B as in brother, half a billion -- dollars. Do you know anything about that, Jean?
CASAREZ: Well, we know that they are not refusing -- they are not saying that that is not happening, so it`s up to anybody`s guess right now. Debra Opri has made a public statement that she hoped that Howard K. Stern would allow the baby to be tested before the next legal proceeding takes place in the Bahamas, which is set for March 16. I think we`re just going to have to wait there to see if there is any type of agreement privately between the two parties.
GRACE: With us tonight, along with our other legal expert, James Neavitt. He is Howard K. Stern`s attorney. Mr. Neavitt, thank you again for being with us tonight. Is it true that there are settlement talks between the photographer/boyfriend Birkhead and the legal executor, at least in the will, anyway, your client, Howard K. Stern?
JAMES NEAVITT, ATTORNEY FOR HOWARD K. STERN: Good evening, Nancy. As you probably can imagine, I can`t discuss what`s going on in terms of settlement discussions one way or the other. But I know that Howard from the beginning of this case has always wanted this thing to get resolved. And we`ve told -- made many statements to Ms. Opri and to others involved that we need to get this thing resolved. And you know, whether it`s happening or not, I can`t comment on it.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez. What are the alleged terms of the settlement? Who is going to be named by the settlement as the baby`s father, and hence, in effect, the guardian of $475 million, possibly?
CASAREZ: Well, once again, we can only rely on what we`ve publicly heard. Attorney Debra Opri has said that there would have to be a paternity test. There would have to be the declaration of Larry Birkhead as the natural birth father for any type of settlement to occur.
GRACE: Today, stunning legal bombshells, a real doubleheader. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the case of Virgie Arthur versus Richard Milstein and Howard Stern, 4D07-715, the court has entered an order lifting the stay and is issuing an opinion the effect of which will allow the remains of Anna Nicole Smith to be delivered to the guardian ad litem for burial in the Bahamas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, Liz, let me know when you get that sound. The first legal ruling, Anna Nicole Smith`s body is headed to the Bahamas for burial.
To you, Dr. Joshua Perper. At one juncture, the judge had actually asked you to go along for safekeeping to the Bahamas with the body. Is that going to happen?
PERPER: Yes, it`s going to happen. The judge asked me that while on the bench, and I`m going to honor his request.
GRACE: When are you headed to the Bahamas, Dr. Perper?
PERPER: I was not informed yet, but considering that the guardian ad litem said that the funeral is going to take place on Monday -- on Friday, obviously, it has to be beforehand, so it should be either tomorrow or very early Friday morning.
GRACE: Dr. Perper, in all the time that you have been there at the medical examiner`s office -- and I have researched that you have conducted literally thousands of autopsies -- have you ever seen this wrangling over the remains of one of your patients?
PERPER: I saw minor wrangling, but nothing of this kind of dimension.
GRACE: And as of right now, Dr. Perper, do you still have the same security controls in place there at the morgue?
PERPER: The security is going to stay in place until the body is going to be shipped to Bahamas.
GRACE: Dr. Perper, how do you advise the body be transported? I mean, how will it be safeguarded in transport?
PERPER: Well, first of all, the body cannot be directly shipped. It has to be prepared by embalmers, who are going to apply cosmetics, who are going to dress the body in nice clothing, and they are going to put the body in the coffin. And the coffin is going to be placed in a vehicle, and my assumption is that there is going to be most likely police protection of -- during the travel.
GRACE: You know, we`re seeing photos of Anna Nicole Smith in life -- absolutely stunning.
Down to the Bahamas. Standing by, former D.C. cop, former FBI fed, Mike Brooks. Mike, what can you tell us on your end about funeral preparations?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Well, Nancy, I was at Lakeview Memorial Gardens today myself and spoke with a source there. And I asked her, I said, Have you heard anything from anyone about any plans? And she said, No, I have not heard anything whatsoever. In fact, after the decision came down, I called this source back and said, Have you heard anything? And the source again said, No, I have not heard anything at all. But they were expecting to hear something either late today or early tomorrow.
Right before the show, I called Lakeview Memorial Gardens again, and it`s closed. But there is a funeral home in Nassau, here in town, that handled the funeral of Daniel. Now, my source expects that same funeral home, Butler Funeral Home here in Nassau, to handle also the funeral of Anna Nicole Smith. But right now, there are no plans and nothing in the works as of right yet. Tomorrow that may change.
GRACE: Well, you know, Mike Brooks, one thing I think they better plan down there in the Bahamas -- they still even haven`t had the inquest on Daniel, who died months and months ago, her 20-year-old son. Big (ph) advice, since they didn`t ask, keep security there at the funeral home there in the Bahamas, or these photos of her body is going -- they`re going to be all over the Web, all over the tabloids, unless Perper is there.
Very quickly, everyone, to tonight`s "Case Alert." There`s a manhunt for two bank robbers in the Atlanta area -- and PS, they could be girls as young as 16 -- the two caught on surveillance video robbing a bank, one of those banks inside of a grocery store in Cobb County. The pair, blond and brunette, dressed in casual clothes, only wearing sunglasses as a disguise. The young perps produced a note demanding cash, all with a big smile. Take a look. If you have info, call Cobb County police, 770-499-3945.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s conceivable under Florida law for a child to have two fathers.
OPRI: I believe there can only be one father, and I believe that father is Larry Birkhead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I asked Anna personally, I said, Anna, baby girl, who is the father? And she looked at me in my face and said, Momo (ph), Howard`s the father.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Today a legal doubleheader. Number one, the body of covergirl Anna Nicole Smith, dead at 39, headed to the Bahamas for burial, along with her 20-year-old son, Daniel. And number two, a Florida court says it does not have jurisdiction to force a paternity test. We`ve been saying that for a long time.
Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Right now, the California superior court has jurisdiction over any paternity issue, but -- and they`re going to ask the court, I think, in California for a paternity test of Dannielynn in Florida.
GRACE: The baby`s in the Bahamas. If they want a paternity test, go to the Bahamas. It`s a one-hour flight from Florida. He`ll already be in Florida. File the motion. Hey, Jean, he doesn`t even have to go there. He can call a lawyer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Finally, it took this long to figure out where the baby is. It`s where jurisdiction over the baby is. Incredible!
Out to the lines. Darlene in Canada. Hi, Darlene.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has the option of cremation been brought to the attention of the parties involved, so that they can bury or spread Anna`s ashes at their own discretion?
GRACE: You know what? To you, Dr. Perper. Was cremation even ever suggested?
PERPER: Never.
GRACE: OK, that`s the answer. To you, Kathy in West Virginia. Hi, Kathy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, a few nights ago, you stated that you had to be -- Bahamian law was, in order to be a citizen, you had to own property. My question is, by her owning the grave plots, isn`t that considered property?
GRACE: To you, Daniel Horowitz. Isn`t it property over $500,000 in the Bahamas?
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think so, Nancy. But that`s a very clever comment by your viewer. That`s the kind of work that lawyers do to kind of shave the law. That`s a great comment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Bahamas has exclusive jurisdiction with regard to the child, having to do with custody, as well as whatever they wish to do in terms of DNA.
OPRI: I fully anticipate the DNA will be completed within no later than a month. I`m hoping Mr. Stern cooperates and does it voluntarily without any strings attached. The big discussion today is let`s put Anna Nicole to rest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: DNA, a month? Dr. Perper, DNA does not take a month to get back. You can get DNA back in about three days. Dr. Perper?
PERPER: Yes, that`s correct. As a matter of fact, we receive an order from the judge of the family court to remit a DNA sample or samples to the expert for the California claimant.
GRACE: Out to you, Jean Casarez. A caller just asked about owning property in the Bahamas. Would the funeral plot count, qualify as property?
CASAREZ: That`s a very good point because when you own a plot, you own property. It is considered property. Now, under Bahamian law, it`s anybody`s guess.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are here in Nassau at Lakeview Memorial Gardens. It is so beautiful here and so peaceful. As you can see over my shoulder, there are many graves. They all have flowers, almost.
But this is a small cemetery. I think normally cemeteries are much larger, at least in the United States. But this is very small and very peaceful. This is actually the Garden of the Eternal Peace.
And virtually all of the graves are marked, except this one right here. It`s unmarked. Now, we`ve been told that Daniel Smith is buried right here. As you can see, there are beautiful flowers, but the grass here is brown. It`s not green as it is all over the cemetery. You can also see that the earth recently has been moved.
Now, Anna Nicole Smith purchased two plots here, one here, we believe the other to my right. And Judge Larry Seidlin strongly recommended in his order that Anna Nicole Smith be buried here in Nassau, with her son, Daniel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, Howard Stern had long fought for Anna Nicole Smith to be buried there in the Bahamas. Today, he got his wish, after a bitter appellate fight.
With us, all the lawyers involved in that. Let`s go straight out to Mike Brooks, standing by in the Bahamas. Mike, there is additional reports that Virgie Arthur has finally got to spend time with her granddaughter, for the first time. Is that true? What can you tell us?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: That`s absolutely correct, Nancy. Apparently last night, Virgie Arthur left her hotel, drove over to Horizons Mansion, where Daniel Stern lives with Dannielynn, and was there for about 30 minutes.
And we heard it was a very, very emotional time for her, seeing her granddaughter for the very, very first time. She came back to her hotel after that and then left the Bahamas, en route to Florida for the hearing early this morning.
GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines. Betty in North Carolina. Hi, Betty.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CALLER: Nancy, obviously there was tension between Anna Nicole and her mother, Virgie. And she referred to Virgie, saying nasty things about her. What did Virgie ever say about Anna Nicole publicly that could make her say such horrible things about her mother? I`ve never heard her publicly say anything negative about Anna.
GRACE: I never did either, ever.
Elizabeth, if you could pull that sound where Virgie appeared on our show regarding the death of Daniel.
Let`s go out to her lawyer. Virgie Arthur`s lawyer is with us tonight, who led this argument at the appellate court, all hugely disappointed today, at least in that camp. Roberta Mandel is with us. She`s a veteran appellate reporter.
Roberta, I never heard Virgie publicly lash out at Anna Nicole ever.
ROBERTA MANDEL, ATTORNEY FOR SMITH`S MOTHER: That`s correct, Nancy. She never has. She was devastated at the separation that she had with her daughter. Anna Nicole left home when she was 15. You know, people that have teenagers -- I have two teenage daughters. You know, life is very strange, but this is a mother. She never had anything negative to say. You know, a mother doesn`t do that.
GRACE: Let`s go out to psychologist and author, Susan Lipkins. Susan, it`s very clear that Virgie Arthur`s perception of her relationship very different than Anna Nicole Smith`s. And I think that really governed this court`s decision today.
SUSAN LIPKINS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, I agree. However, I agree with Anna Nicole, that there was a reason that she really felt the way she did towards her mother. And I do believe that piece of tape that said she was very abusive to her.
You don`t leave your home at the age of 15 and never look back unless something really terrible has happened. So I`m saying that there was something there, and there was a reason that she didn`t want that little baby to know her grandma.
GRACE: Now, back to you, Roberta Mandel. Didn`t Anna Nicole allow Daniel to be taken care of by Virgie until he was, you know, between 6 and 9 years old?
MANDEL: Yes. Actually, I think it was a little longer than that, Nancy. You`re absolutely correct, which begs the question, just how abusive could she have been if she left her son, who she obviously loved tremendously, with a woman who -- you know, it begs the question what type of abuse really was there.
GRACE: Roberta, do you plan to appeal this decision on behalf of Virgie Arthur?
MANDEL: Unfortunately, there really -- in Florida law, there really is no avenue for us to appeal. I spent right after the opinion came out researching it. In Florida, you have to have something called direct and expressed conflict in the four corners of the court`s opinion, conflict with another DCA or the Florida Supreme Court.
GRACE: Right.
MANDEL: And there really isn`t anything here that in good conscience that...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: That you can appeal. Let`s go out to the lines, Bernie in Florida. Hi, Bernie.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CALLER: My question would be, since there has been a guardian assigned to Dannielynn, and he is acting in the child`s behalf, would not the child want to know who its father is so he could make the decision to do the DNA?
GRACE: Excellent point. And we did hear Judge Seidlin kind of make that point in court. Out to you, Jean Casarez, response?
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: You better believe that is a point that Judge Seidlin made. And that`s why he allowed Larry Birkhead to be in that courtroom, because the guardian shouldn`t be there. It should be the natural birth father as the guardian, but we don`t know who he is at this point.
GRACE: And, Jean, we talked to Mike Brooks about this, but what can you tell us about a possible meeting, finally, between grandmother and granddaughter?
CASAREZ: Well, we saw the video this morning on national news networks that she was coming out of the home. And I`ve been to that home, so I know that`s what she was coming out of.
We also heard through the attorneys, when I was in the Bahamas day before yesterday, that in the court proceeding, in Nassau, Virgie`s lawyers said to his lordship, the judge, "Your honor, this is the natural birth grandmother, and she is not even being allowed to see her granddaughter." And what came from that from the judge we are not privy to, but we know that they had the meeting after that.
GRACE: To James Neavitt. This is Howard K. Stern`s lawyer. Your client, Stern, has possession of the baby. Why would he not let the mom, the grandmom, see the baby until the court made him?
JAMES NEAVITT, HOWARD K. STERN`S ATTORNEY: Well, as you know, there`s been a lot of, I would say, bad blood. If you watch the actual shots you have with Anna Nicole and that -- I think my understanding of that, that came from some comments the mother had made right after Daniel died. And so there were some negative comments made by the mother that really affected...
GRACE: Oh, you mean suggesting a murder had happened?
NEAVITT: Something to that effect. You know, I don`t know the exact words, and I don`t want to say what they were. But the bottom line, she was upset. And I know Howard was, to some extent, carrying out her wishes. And what`s happened in regards to what`s taken place after the hearing in Florida, I don`t know. And if I really did know, I really couldn`t say anything.
GRACE: Out to you, Courtney Anderson, Courtney Anderson, veteran trial lawyer. What about the theory of grandparents` rights? We hear that crop up in the law. I don`t know any jurisdictions that really enforce that against the parents` wishes, though, Courtney.
COURTNEY ANDERSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, absolutely not. I know there have been some appellate cases, and I believe there was a Supreme Court case not long ago. And it tugs at our heart strings, because we think, you know, who better to step in when families are torn apart than a grandmother or grandfather who`s there and kind of has the wisdom of age and can kind of be a calming influence?
So even though, in real life -- we don`t want to let people forget, you always have the right in your own family to set aside rights for a grandmother or a grandfather. But it`s just when these things are not handled by us individually, and the courts have to step in, then sometimes we sit there and we look at the decisions, and we think, "How could they do that?"
But they`re not acting like we would as a family; they`re just looking at the law and following the rules.
GRACE: In the end, it looks like the appellate court veered away from the funeral director statute there in Florida and went with case law, Cohen v. Cohen, that said the court should try to determine if the deceased, the dead person`s, intent was manifested. By Anna Nicole buying that burial plot, it suggests that`s where she wanted to be buried.
Out to Jody in New York. Hi, Jody.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. You`re my favorite.
GRACE: Thank you.
CALLER: I`d like to know seriously why nobody has asked why Larry Birkhead, if he`s such a golden boy -- he never said anything when he was in the hospital visiting her about the drug activity that they`re saying was going on.
GRACE: Good question. What about it, Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: A very good question. He never said he went to authorities, you`re exactly right.
GRACE: I thought he got her in rehab?
(CROSSTALK)
CASAREZ: He did take her to rehab and got her in there and did that, but he didn`t, obviously, go to other authorities, the fact that drugs were being allegedly smuggled into that hospital for her to take.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Even though you`re concerned about the death of Daniel, I can see that you -- what would you say to her tonight, if you could speak to her?
VIRGIE ARTHUR, ANNA NICOLE SMITH`S MOTHER: Vickie Lynn, you know I love you. Always have. And be very careful about who you hang around with, because you may be next.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That was a statement made by Anna Nicole Smith`s mother, Virgie Arthur, following the sudden and unexpected death of Nicole Smith`s son, 20-year-old Daniel, clearly alluding to a fear for Anna Nicole Smith`s life, in no way suggesting homicide, but that premonition actually did come true. Anna Nicole Smith dying unexpectedly herself shortly after, at age 39. Today, is the legal battle over?
Recap, Jean. Doubleheader in court.
CASAREZ: Doubleheader in court. The trial court with Judge Larry Seidlin, his order was affirmed today. So what that means is that the body of Anna Nicole Smith...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa...
CASAREZ: ... is bound to the Bahamas for a funeral and burial.
GRACE: What about the appellate court talking about the tipsy coachman?
CASAREZ: Oh, the tipsy coachman. Well, what that doctrine is -- and it was cited in the opinion -- was that we, as the appellate court, may affirm a lower court`s ruling even if we don`t agree with the court`s reasoning. And they didn`t agree with the court`s reasoning, because they said the statutes in Florida that you believe applied, they don`t apply at all. They`re for funeral directors and their liability and their protection. It is common law that we`re going to go by. So we`re going to agree with you.
GRACE: So, bottom line, the appellate court compared Seidlin`s decision to a drunk driver, tipsy coachman. Somehow, even though the coachman was drunk, the horse managed to bring the carriage home anyway to the right place.
OK, Anna Nicole Smith headed to the Bahamas and paternity rests in the Bahamas, correct?
CASAREZ: That is right.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, been on the case from the beginning. I`ve got a feeling, Jean, it ain`t over yet.
And to you, Mike Brooks in the Bahamas, I guess you`re steeling yourself for what`s to come.
BROOKS: I tell you what, Nancy, it`s going to be a busy month here. You`ve got the guardianship, now paternity action on March 16th. You`ve got the ownership of the Horizons, figuring that out, on March 14th. And we`ve got the coroner`s inquest, with over 30 witnesses coming up on March 26th. It`s going to be a busy, busy month here in the Bahamas.
GRACE: In death, Anna Nicole still keeping the legal system busy.
And to you, Dr. Joshua Perper, Dr. Perper, don`t you believe, if the funeral was to be set at 10:30 a.m. on Friday, they would have told you by now since they want you to accompany the remains?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, BROWARD COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: No, I think that they have time tomorrow. We have sufficient time to do this tomorrow. I don`t think we do it on Friday morning; it would be too late.
GRACE: I think you`re right, Dr. Perper. And knowing that you are safeguarding those remains is very comforting to many, many people.
Everyone, I want to tell you about an outrage in Colorado, a justice outrage. A mother accused of using her 5-month-old baby son as a down payment on a Dodge Intrepid. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On Monday of this week, February 26th, we received a call to our dispatch center, about 8:00 in the morning, and we sent officers out in response to a third party at our south side hospital at St. Mary Corwin (ph), who had information in regards to someone selling their baby.
And so uniformed officers were on scene and talked to this third party. And, indeed, it did happen, so we immediately called out detectives out of my unit, out of the special victims unit, and things unfolded from there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You know, it never ends. And when you think of how many thousands of people would want to cherish and love a little baby like this one, we find out some mom is accused of giving the baby away for a Dodge Intrepid, P.S., a used Dodge Intrepid.
Out to Kevin McGlue, the assistant news director at Clear Channel, Northern Colorado. Kevin, what allegedly happened?
KEVIN MCGLUE, ASSISTANT NEWS DIRECTOR, KCOL: Well, this is a very interesting story in the fact that this is a mother...
GRACE: Well, that`s one way to put it.
MCGLUE: It is one way to put it. This 23-year-old mother, Nicole Uribe, who is currently being held on $50,000 bond, apparently had moved in, she and her boyfriend, with a married couple who they had met through a mutual friend, that being Jose-Juan Lerma and his wife, Irene.
Apparently, the mother, Nicole, said she wanted to get rid of this child. Apparently that couple offered her $1,500 in cash for the 5-month- old boy. The mother then turned around and used $500 of it to put the down payment down on that used 2000 Dodge Intrepid.
Well, a third party apparently made a call to Pueblo police, as you had heard earlier, about this sale having taken place. Police went down and made the arrest. Now, the mother arrested, as was the couple who paid the $1,500. They`re all being charged with trafficking a child, which is a felony.
The young boy in question, he`s been placed in a foster home, where he is currently staying at this time. And as of today, Jose-Juan Lima -- excuse me, Jose-Juan Lerma, one of the members of that couple who allegedly tried to buy this child, out on bond, and he is in full denial mode, saying he was simply trying to give this child a better life and was not trying to buy the child.
GRACE: Which may very well be true. I mean, when you see a mom willing to sell the baby to get a down payment on a Dodge Intrepid, you want to try and save the baby.
Out to Sergeant Brett A. Wilson with the Pueblo Police Department Special Victims Unit. Sergeant, thank you for being with us. You know, I always think, at the end of the night when I head home, I`ve heard it all. Clearly, I have not heard it all. What are the alleged details of the case, Sergeant?
SGT. BRETT A. WILSON, PUEBLO POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, at this point, it is still currently under investigation, so I can`t disclose too much other than what you`ve already heard prior to this. But up to this point...
GRACE: Why were the Lermas charged?
WILSON: I`m sorry?
GRACE: Why were the Lermas charged for taking the baby?
WILSON: Part of the state statute with why they were charged is Nicole was selling the baby, and Irene and Jose-Juan Lerma were the purchasers. So that`s why they were charged, as well, with the trafficking and the children`s charge.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us, Courtney Anderson, Texas, Daniel Horowitz, San Francisco.
To you, Daniel, trafficking a baby. I`ve never prosecuted one of those. Have you defended one?
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, Nancy. And this is not, in my opinion, trafficking a baby. I think you`ll find out that there`s information out there -- and I haven`t confirmed this -- that this mother didn`t feel that she was a good mother and wanted this baby to have a better upbringing.
GRACE: And she wanted herself to have a better car, Courtney?
HOROWITZ: So she took a little money, Nancy. So what?
GRACE: Yes, yes. Courtney?
ANDERSON: Yes, absolutely. I mean, this is just sad. The only, I think, bright spot in this is we can all kind of rest assured tonight that this baby is safe and in the custody of a foster home, where hopefully we know that he`s being watched after and the government`s involved.
You know, obviously something has gone horrifically wrong in this young woman`s life, at 23 years old, that she felt that the best thing she could do as a mother was to give this child up. And I also want to look at the other side. I mean, what was this married couple thinking?
I mean, I can understand them reaching out to help this young woman and her boyfriend or baby. And then, if she does come to them in kind of a state and says something about, "I want to give you the baby or sell you the baby," what are they thinking to agree and to give her the $1,500? So there`s a lot of blame to go around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The motivation is different from opposite ends of the spectrum, but, you know, they were trying to come to a conclusion that they wanted the baby. Nicole didn`t want the baby any longer, obviously.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s right. You heard it. A Colorado mom allegedly sells her baby for a down payment on a used Dodge Intrepid.
Very quickly, to Susan Lipkins, it`s so hard for so many of us to understand that alleged behavior.
LIPKINS: I don`t really agree with your analysis, Nancy. I think that, if you look at a more sophisticated couple, they would be with their private lawyers, and they do pay birth mothers $10,000, $20,000, $30,000 for adopting a child.
I think, in this case, the mother was very young. We don`t know how bright she is. We don`t know anything about the circumstances, and I`m sure she did not understand what she was doing, or trafficking a baby. I don`t think it`s the same.
GRACE: Bottom line, Susan, as much as I`d like to believe you, she gave away the baby for money. Now, I don`t care what language you speak, everybody knows that`s wrong. Tonight, that baby in foster care.
Very quickly, let`s stop our legal discussion and remember Army Sergeant Major Michael Mettille, 44, West St. Paul, Minnesota. National guardsman over 26 years, second tour of duty, Iraq, also served Bosnia. He was the organizer of Operation Uplink, giving overseas soldiers phone cards to call home. He loved writing the battalion newsletter, "The Wolverine Times Gazette." He told the troops, "I will always place the mission first, never accept defeat, never quit." Leaves behind widow, Pam, and four children. Michael Mettille, tonight`s American hero.
Thank you to our guests, but our biggest thank you is to you, for inviting all of us into your homes. NANCY GRACE signing off for tonight. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
