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Scooter Libby Found Guilty of Obstruction of Justice; Massive Casualties in Iraqi Pilgrimage Bombing
Aired March 06, 2007 - 12:58 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DENIS COLLINS, JUROR: -- speak about this at the moment, maybe they never will, I don't know. But I just feel like it's kind of -- I'm happy to talk to you all for a little bit about just what -- what evidence seemed to convince us and --
QUESTION: What was your juror number?
QUESTION: -- conclusion that it was a deliberate lie --
COLLINS: The primary thing that convinced us on most of the accounts was the conversation, alleged conversation with Russert. It was either false, which some of us believe it never happened. Or if it did happen, Mr. Libby saying that he was surprised to hear about Mrs. Wilson. We had about 34 Post-it pages. By Post-it, I don't mean the little ones you stick on. They were like 2 1/2 feet by 2 feet. And they were filled with all the information that we distilled from the testimony. We took a long time to do that. We took about a week just to get all these little building blocks there. And what we came up with was that Mr. Libby either was told by or told to people about Mrs. Wilson at least nine times. And in a period of time that it would be extremely -- I mean, we were told he had a bad memory and we actually believed he did.
But Mr. Hanna's testimony that he would forget from morning to evening who told him something was contradicted by Mr. Hanna's testimony that said he had an incredible grasp of details and arguments so that even if he forgot that someone had told him about Mrs. Wilson -- who had told him, it seemed very unlikely that he would have not remembered that about Mrs. Wilson. So we had all these conversations, the dates of, you know, when Grossman contacted him about, you know, he had gone to Grossman, said, would you find out about Mr. Wilson and Grossman came back and I think those of you were at the trial verdict, said, I thought it was an interesting tidbit that his wife worked at the CIA as well.
We have the Joe Wilson article with notation from the vice president on the page saying, was this just a -- you know, did the wife just send him on junket or something. There was just so many of those things that -- it was just very hard not to believe -- how he could remember it on a Tuesday and then forget it on a Thursday and then remember it two days later. Having said that, I will say that there was a tremendous amount of sympathy for Mr. Libby on the jury. It was said a number of times, what are we doing with this guy here? Where's Rove, where's -- you know, where are these other guys? We're not saying we didn't think Mr. Libby was guilty of the things we found him guilty of, but that it seemed like he was, to put it Mr. Wells -- he was the fall guy. He was -- now, he made bad judgments --
QUESTION: Was he the fall guy for Vice President Cheney (INAUDIBLE)
COLLINS: The belief of the jury was that he was -- he was tasked by the vice president to go and talk to reporters. We never made any, you know, came to any conclusion or never even discussed whether Cheney would have told him what exactly to say.
QUESTION: What about the (INAUDIBLE) the jury's feelings about the motive for "Scooter" Libby to lie to the FBI and lie to the grand jury? The vice president, Cheney come under your discussions about --
QUESTION: Was he covering up?
COLLINS: We actually never discussed that because that was not what we were assigned to do.
QUESTION: What do you think?
COLLINS: I, I have -- really don't know. One thing about being on this jury, the people who were on this jury, there were some incredibly good managerial-type people who just took everything apart in the smallest piece, put it in the right places and it got to the point where it was, you just couldn't -- opinion had very little to do with it. You just came to this conclusion that wow, OK. Here it is right before us.
QUESTION: Why did it take 10 days then? What was it about the process that took the time?
COLLINS: Because we did, we took every count and went back over all the testimony, and as we went back, we have all these different sheets, you know. Motivation to tell the truth. Motivation to lie. Believability. State of mind.
So we never got to the point of doing, like -- we didn't start to do a straw vote right away. "What do you think?" Well, it was too big. It was too much. It was too important. We just didn't do that.
So that's why it took so long.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the result of that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there somebody, a number of jurors were digging in their heels?
COLLINS: No. It was confusion. You mean the one about the conversation with Cooper?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
COLLINS: There was confusion by someone about whether the truth of a statement was at the point -- or wasn't just that he had said that statement. So -- then we sort of...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) whether it was brought to...
COLLINS: We were told that that information wasn't relevant. That information wasn't relevant. So we -- so we never talked about that. The only -- the only thing anything like that came up was when somebody would say this -- what we're in court deciding seems to be a level or two down from what -- before we went into the jury we supposed the trial was about or had been initially about, which was who leaked Valerie Plame or Mrs. Wilson's name.
And you know, it just seemed, again like I said, some jurors commented at some point, "I wish we weren't judging Libby. You know? This sucks." This is -- you know, we don't like being here doing this. But that's the -- that isn't our choice so...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the reaction of being...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell us about the not guilty count? Why you found not guilty on which count?
COLLINS: I don't really like to say this. But the Cooper count -- it was the -- on the conversation with Mr. Cooper. And his version of what was said and Mr. Libby's version of what was said, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it the perjury or the obstruction of justice?
COLLINS: It -- false statement, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: False statements to the FBI?
COLLINS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So what was your reaction to...
COLLINS: Let me just finish this, OK. And the -- the evidence that -- that he had said, "Oh, yes, I heard that too," came from Mr. Cooper. And in -- in some part Cathie Martin, because she had said she was listening to the phone call from one end.
But she also said she went away to make another phone call. So that diminished her importance.
But, Mr. Cooper -- so it was basically his word against Mr. Libby's word. Now, so what's the evidence that we saw that maybe favored one or the other? If Mr. Cooper had gotten a -- an affirmation of that information, it seemed unusual that he wouldn't have put that -- he would have put it from Rove.
So it would have been the second confirmation. He would have put nit the story that he wrote that day. That's one thing.
Secondly, he had nothing in the notes about it. So there was no evidence there. There was that kind of trick thing about the sentence -- I don't know if you're not familiar with it. You have to look it up. But, you know, if he had said, yes, the Libby -- the Wilson thing, but I'm not ever sure -- blank.
Now, Wells did that -- took a lot of time to say that this letter was this and this letter was that. And you know, it was not convincing but it weighed about six ounces and when you looked at that line and you looked at what could it be? The fact that Cooper didn't know what it was, you know, it just -- reasonable doubt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about Tim Russert? How credible a witness was he?
COLLINS: I thought he was very credible. I think most people thought he was very credible. But it's a funny thing when, you know, there were a few people who thought, no, he probably had that conversation.
So for purposes of arguing that point, we spent, I don't know, a day and a half, assuming it was true. At one point, I raised an objection or something about, you know, I can't go with that because of x and somebody in the jury said, "Wait a minute -- you said you don't believe they had the conversation."
So you do get caught up in making arguments for or against something just to help the process along.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are the...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Libby or...
COLLINS: Say it again?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did it mean that you didn't hear from Libby or Vice President Cheney?
COLLINS: We had eight hours of grand jury testimony from Libby. So I felt like we -- we -- that was good. That was -- hearing from Cheney -- I think it would have been interesting. I'm not sure what it would have done. I don't have any idea what he would have said.
But it was sort of like -- I don't remember ever discussing that. Like wow, are we going to get to see -- I thought when Wells made his opening and he said, suddenly he hit us with that -- it's the White House -- the people in the White House who are setting him up, I was thinking, "Wow, maybe we'll get to see President Bush here," but...
DON LEMON, CO-HOST: You're listening to a juror in the Lewis "Scooter" Libby trial, talking about the verdict today, lying, perjury, obstructing justice, guilty, guilty, guilty.
The jury speaks finally, and it's not what Scooter Libby wanted to hear. As you know if you've been with us here in the newsroom, the top aide to Vice President Cheney has just been convicted of most if not all of the charges against him.
Charges arriving from what he said to the feds about what he said or didn't say to journalists about former CIA operative Valerie Plame. Now if you tried to follow all of that, well, you know why it took ten days to get to these verdicts.
The defense maintains the verdicts won't be the final word.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED WELLS, LIBBY'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We believe, as we said at the time of his indictment, that he is totally innocent, totally innocent. And he did not do anything wrong, and we intend to keep fighting to establish his innocence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And CNN's Brian Todd is at his post at the D.C. federal courthouse. Very complicated case. And the juror speaking there, Brian, said it just didn't add up.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. This is Denis Collins. He's actually a former "Washington Post" reporter, although he has not worked at the "Post" for more than 20 years. He is still speaking for -- in front of the cameras as we speak.
A couple of things that he said struck out at me, at least. He said that they believe that Mr. Libby was told by or told to about Mrs. Wilson about nine times. They said even if he forgot who told him about Mrs. Wilson, it was unlikely in their minds that he would have forgotten that he was told about her.
Mr. Libby, of course, the central claim was that he forgot that he was told by the vice president initially about the identity of Valerie Plame Wilson. And that he, when he heard about it later from ABC News' Tim Russert, that he claimed that he was hearing it for the first time.
This juror and the verdict that was issued today clearly repudiates that. They believe that Mr. Libby was told, that he remembers that -- that he remembered that Mrs. Wilson worked for the CIA. He may have forgotten who told him, but he certainly would not have forgotten being told.
This juror was somewhat descriptive in a graphic way about having to even be there and judge Mr. Libby. He said that they had some sympathy for Mr. Libby, and was -- and they were even debating why they were here. Even asking themselves, "Why aren't we talking about Karl Rove in this case?"
Rove, of course, it's important to point out, was not charged in this case but was acknowledged by sources as being one of the original leakers in this case.
LEMON: And Brian...
TODD: So Mr. Collins is being very kind of open about their deliberative process.
LEMON: And Brian, he did say that the jurors believe that Scooter Libby was the fall guy.
TODD: That's right. And that's a very key thing. Because that was really the first thing that Ted Wells said in his opening arguments, that Mr. Libby was set up by this Bush White House in order to protect Karl Rove, that he was hung out to dry, that Mr. Cheney even wrote a note that we're not going to, you know, let this guy who stuck his neck out in the meat grinder take the fall for others in this -- in this case.
So apparently, the jurors actually sympathized with that argument but simply did not believe that Mr. Libby was credible when he said that he did not know the identity of Valerie Plame Wilson until he was told that by Tim Russert.
Tim Russert really turned out to be in this case the star prosecution witness as he was portrayed. He was a very devastating witness against Mr. Libby. Patrick Fitzgerald, the prosecutor, even said that in his closing arguments, that Tim Russert was a devastating witness against Mr. Libby. It turns out that in the minds of this juror and the others that that was the case.
LEMON: All right. CNN's Brian Todd. Breaking story. We will check back with you. Don't go anywhere. Thank you.
PHILLIPS: And our Brianna Keilar was in the courtroom. We're going to talk to her in just a moment. But first of all, White House press -- or deputy press secretary, Dana Perino, had this to say with regard to the president's reaction to the verdict just moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA PERINO, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: Obviously, we have a verdict from the jury in the Scooter Libby trial. We start off by saying that the president was informed by -- he was in the Oval Office. He saw the verdict read on television. Chief of staff Josh Bolten and counselor Dan Bartlett were with him.
He said that he respected the jury's verdict, that he was saddened for Scooter Libby and his family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Just yesterday, the jury sent three more questions to the judge, and we all started fearing the "d" word, deadlock. Instead, the defendant now faces the possibility of years in prison.
We turn once again to CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin for insight.
No doubt, he's certain to go to prison if that conviction is upheld, right?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, now there are -- the case will be evaluated under the federal sentencing guidelines. The federal sentencing guidelines for a case like this one will probably suggest something like 18 to 24 months in prison, about two years. Under the -- the Supreme Court ruled just two years ago that those federal guidelines are now no longer mandatory, that they're advisory. Almost all federal judges honor them anyway.
But there is a possibility that, because those guidelines are not mandatory, that Judge Walton could give him no prison time at all, probation, or he could give him a longer sentence. Under the laws for which he was convicted, he could get 25 years.
There's no way in the world he's going to get 25 years. But he could get somewhat more than the 18 to 24 months that the guidelines might suggest.
So before two years ago, we could say almost certainly what prison term he was -- he was going to get. But now the judge has a little more discretion.
PHILLIPS: So to determine the sentences, the judge ordered a pre-sentencing report. So is that what helps determine all of that? And how long could that take? And what goes into that?
TOOBIN: Right. Well, what happens in a pre-sentence report is that the United States Department of Probation interviews the defendant about his background, about his history. The -- the probation officer also takes into consideration the evidence that was put forth in the trial.
And then there's a chart, literally a number -- numerical chart where each crime is assigned a number depending on the severity of the crime. And sometimes that number is adjusted up based on certain factors or down, based on other factors.
When there's a guilty plea, you always get two points less for what's called acceptance of responsibility. You acknowledge what you did. That's considered to your advantage.
Here, there was no acceptance of responsibility, because Scooter Libby maintained his innocence throughout.
So you know, the lawyers often argue about what's the correct number to be assigned, but once you get a number -- it's called an offense level -- there's then a number of months that are equal to that offense level.
By my calculations, this one should be in the -- about 18 to 24 months. And the judge then has the discretion to pick within the 18- to 24-month range or, now based on Supreme Court precedent fairly recently, he could go lower or even higher. Although they usually stay within the guidelines.
PHILLIPS: Jeffrey, will we ever know what the true intentions were here? If the vice president did tell him, Scooter Libby, what to do. If Scooter Libby was trying to protect the vice president. If he really thought he said something, forgot, came back, remembered.
I mean, there's still so many questions, and there's a lot of mystery here to really was he given instruction or not and what were his motives?
TOOBIN: Yes, I thought it was very interesting to listen to Denis Collins, the juror, who was just speaking, who said that the jurors were somewhat frustrated that they had to evaluate only Scooter Libby's conduct when there seemed to be so much rotten going on there. I'm paraphrasing.
But he did seem concerned that, you know, where was Karl Rove, where was Dick Cheney? Not necessarily that they committed crimes, but what -- what was their involvement in -- in this whole story.
You know, there are often mysteries left open. Obviously Scooter Libby at some point may want to tell his story.
PHILLIPS: I can see the book.
TOOBIN: Well -- well...
PHILLIPS: Isn't that usually the next step, Jeffrey?
TOOBIN: That's often the -- in Washington scandals, there are usually lots of books. And this one, there have already been some, and Joseph Wilson has written one. His wife is in the process of writing one. Perhaps Scooter Libby will write one.
So I don't think we'll ever know the full story, because we don't know the full story about much of anything. I mean, there's always historical debates.
But this one -- there are a lot of loose ends. We've never heard Dick Cheney answer questions about the details here. We obviously have Scooter Libby's grand jury testimony. That was what was found to be false by this jury. Whether he tells another story, you've got me.
PHILLIPS: Jeffrey Toobin, we'll be talking some more. Thanks so much.
TOOBIN: OK.
PHILLIPS: You can get more on the CIA leak investigation verdict online at CNN.com. Just watch reaction to today's verdict, see the key players, and view a timeline of the major events in the case. You can get more at CNN.com.
Much more on this story ahead, including CNN's Brianna Keilar, who was in the courtroom watching Libby and his team of attorneys while that verdict was read. And we'll hear from the attorney for Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame, the ex-CIA agent at the center of this case. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Because we did -- we took every count and went back over all of the testimony, and as we went back, we have all these different sheets, you know, motivations to tell the truth, motivation to lie, believability, state of mind.
So we -- we never got to the point of doing -- like we didn't start to do a straw vote right away. "What do you think?" Well, it was too big. It was too much. It was too important. We just didn't do that. So that's why it took so long.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Denis Collins is a juror in the Libby case. And inside the courtroom today, our Brianna Keilar was there. She joins us now with some insight on that -- Brianna.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Don. And that was Don (sic) Collins, not -- he was not the jury foreperson. The jury foreperson was actually sort of a young woman.
And as she read the counts one by one, all five counts, I was looking at Mr. Libby to see his reaction. On the first count, which was guilty, he blinked, but there was really no response. And then it was the second count where she read that it was guilty, where he sort of blinked emphatically. And it was clear that he was a little surprised, certainly a little affected.
And then the third count, which was not guilty. And the fourth count, which was guilty, he was very much composed. And then again when the fifth count was read and it was guilty. So four out of five guilty counts, that emphatic blink. Certainly, he was a little surprised and a little shaken by that, as well.
And this stands very much in contrast, Don, to how he's been throughout the entire trial. If you watched him walk into the courtroom today before the jury came in to read that verdict, he walked in calm. He was very laid back and collected. And he had a smile on his face from the time he walked into the courtroom to the time that he sat down at the defense table.
So certainly not what we've seen throughout the trial, where he's also been somewhat smiley or just somewhat sort of flat. He hasn't necessarily shaken his head or done anything like that.
What we were watching was his wife, Harriet Grant. We've seen her at times throughout the trial, where she's maybe been a little concerned about something.
Mr. Libby at one point, when one of the jurors was excused, before the members of the press knew what was going on, he actually came over to explain it to her. She seemed a little concerned about it.
So definitely, we were watching Harriet Grant. And this is where the emotion really came in. After that verdict was read, after the date was sent for sentencing, she went over. She hugged everyone there at the prosecution table, and she was teary eyed. All eyes were on her. She hugged Ted Wells, the head defender, and she gave him a kiss on the cheek. He held onto her. She kissed him on the shoulder, actually. And she said, "I love you" to him twice. She was very shaken by these four out of five counts of -- guilty counts, Don.
LEMON: Yes, and Brianna, you know, we watched as Scooter Libby came out with his attorney. And we all thought he was going to speak, which was surprising, actually, too, that his attorney spoke, saying you know, that they're going to ask for a new trial and that they're going to appeal this.
What about the prosecutor? Surprising that he spoke, as well. Patrick Fitzgerald, known sort of as a tight-lipped prosecutor, very stern. His reaction in the courtroom once this was read? Did you see that?
KEILAR: Well, it was pretty much the same. He remained very stoic throughout much of the trial, throughout -- when ever we would come into court, the jury had a note. There was some sort of something where he was addressing the judge with the defense. And that was really the case today, even before and after the verdict.
What was interesting, though, is if you were watching the defense and you were watching the prosecution, because the prosecution, obviously concerned, waiting for the verdict. But somewhat laid back, somewhat relaxed.
And then it was the prosecution -- special counsel Fitzgerald, not so much. But the other prosecutors, there seemed to be a little bit of anxiety. I watched one exchange where two of the prosecutors were trying to figure out who was sitting in which chair. And you could just see they were a little shaken.
And also Peter Zeidenberg, the prosecutor who delivered much -- the main body of the closing argument, actually before the verdict was read was looking down at some papers. And he had his hands on -- both hands on his head, and he was -- actually appeared to be massaging the temples of his head with his thumbs.
So certainly you got the sense that there was a lot of anticipation from the prosecution, Don.
LEMON: Brianna Keilar inside the courtroom. Very interesting stuff. Thank you, Brianna.
PHILLIPS: A holy pilgrimage turns into a hell on earth. Today, two suicide members attacked a crowd of Shiite pilgrims in the city of Hilla just south of Baghdad. The casualty count is massive and rising.
Let's get straight to Baghdad and CNN's Jennifer Eccleston -- Jennifer.
JENNIFER ECCLESTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kyra. Two suicide bombers detonated their explosive belts amongst a large crowd of Shia pilgrims in that southern city of -- south of Baghdad city of Hilla, as they were making their way to the holy city of Karbala to mark the end of the Ashura. Now initial police reports put the number of dead at 93, and 147 pilgrims having been wounded. This follows a wave of attacks in and around Baghdad this day, where some 28 pilgrims were killed in various bombings and shootings.
Now, the Ashura remembers the death of an imam who is revered by Shia Muslims. It is an event that is observed every year. And given the large crowd that usually attend these commemorations, it has been a popular target for insurgent attacks in the past -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Now what about President Bush's comments today, about encouraging signs from the security situation in Iraq and the massive police crackdown?
ECCLESTON: Yes, I think it was a more pointed reference to the latest security drive, the push to make Baghdad more secure, which saw a greater involvement of Iraqi police and U.S. military, part of -- of that much anticipated surge where part of the troops -- U.S. troops are here.
Now, indeed, there are many more police checkpoints. There is a much higher visibility of Iraqi security forces, U.S. security forces on the street, despite an intense bomb yesterday, which killed numerous people and the attack in Hilla, which is outside of Baghdad and some of those attacks here today, overall in the last couple of weeks since the security crackdown, it has appeared on the surface to be slightly calmer, to be not as frenetic in terms of the death and destruction and mayhem that we usually see on a day-to-day basis from Baghdad alone.
So positive signs, initially. These are early days. Of course, those positive signs clouded today by the explosions and the death we saw south of Baghdad -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Jennifer Eccleston live from Baghdad.
Nine American soldiers kill in Iraq this day alone. That makes it the deadliest day for U.S. forces in a month. Six of them were killed in a roadside bombing attack in Salah ad Din province just north of Baghdad. The others three died in another roadside bombing in Diyala province.
That brings the U.S. military death toll in Iraq to 3,184. Nearly 23,800 troops have been wounded.
LEMON: A new commission for a wounded vet from World War II and a cabinet secretary turned university president. President Bush names names in the Walter Reed repair campaign. That's straight ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.
PHILLIPS: Vice President Cheney has a case of what some call economy class syndrome. A serious condition. Are you at risk? Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta steps into the NEWSROOM with a closer look coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PHILLIPS: Lying, perjury, obstructing justice, guilty, guilty, guilty. The jury speaks, finally and it's not what Scooter Libby wanted to hear. As you know, if you've been with us in the NEWSROOM, the former top aide to Vice President Cheney has just been convicted of most, but not all, of the charges against him.
The charges arising from what he said to the feds about what he said, or didn't say to journalists, about former CIA operative Valerie Plame. If you tried to follow all that, you know why it took 10 days to get these verdicts.
The defense maintains the verdicts won't be the final word.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED WELLS, LIBBY'S LEAD ATTORNEY: We believe, as we said, at the time of his indictment, that he is totally innocent, totally innocent and that he did not do anything wrong. And we intend to keep fighting to establish his innocence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And you can best believe the white house had a close eye on this trial and probably a lot of crossed fingers as well. CNN's Kathleen Koch just came out of the White House briefing.
Kathleen, what was the response?
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well certainly, Don, you are correct in that the White House has been watching these proceedings very, very carefully. Everyone, including the president, had their eyes glued to the television today as the verdict came down, a Deputy Press Dana Perino described exactly how the president got the news.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA PERINO, SPOKESWOMAN, WHITE HOUSE: The president was informed by -- he was in the Oval Office, he saw the verdict read on television. Chief of Staff Josh Bolton and Dan Bartlett were with him.
He -- he said that he respected the jury's verdict, that he was saddened for Scooter Libby, and his family. And that the White House direction from here on out -- I know there is going to be a lot of disappointment in this -- there's an ongoing criminal proceeding. Scooter Libby's attorneys just announced that they are going to ask for a new trial. And that they are going to -- failing that, they would appeal the verdict. So, our principled stand of not commenting on an ongoing legal investigations is going to continue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOCH: Obviously, we reporters tried to draw Perino out. One of the first questions that sprung to everyone's mind was would the president indeed, if Scooter Libby's appeal fails, he's unsuccessful, would the president pardon Libby? And to that, Perino replied that well, she was aware of no such request. There's obviously, a process that would have to be followed if a request was filed for a pardon. But she said, right now, it's just too early to speculate. She says she's not commenting on a hypothetical situation like that.
And also reporters we tried to draw her out, by getting responses, that Democrats themselves, they have been eager to speak out immediately on this verdict. A statement from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, was e-mailed immediately afterwards.
It reads, quote, "I welcome the jury's verdict. It's about time someone in the Bush administration has been held accountable for the campaign to manipulate intelligence and discredit war critics. Lewis Libby has been convicted of perjury, but his trial revealed deeper truths about Vice President Cheney's role in the sordid affair. Now President Bush must pledge not to pardon Libby for his criminal conduct."
Now, to that Perino said the president -- first of all. she said that she certainly disagreed with the characterization. And she said that the Bush administration, the president, has gone to great lengths to repair any problems in pre-war intel. Make sure that sort of thing happens again. But she says that she's not surprised that the Democrats will try to benefit politically from all of this, Don?
LEMON: Kathleen Koch, thank you so much.
KOCH: You bet.
PHILLIPS: Valerie Plame and her husband, former Ambassador Joe Wilson, they have been at the center of this investigation and trial from day one. They're not done in the courts yet. Attorney Melanie Sloan is representing them in a lawsuit against top Bush administration officials. She's on the phone with us right now.
Melanie, first of all, your reaction to what happen today?
MELANIE SLOAN, ATTORNEY FOR WILSON & PLAME: The entire Wilson team is very pleased by the verdict. We think that justice was served in this case.
PHILLIPS: Is it enough?
SLOAN: Well, it's a start. It's not enough. Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson have a civil case they intend to pursue against Cheney, Libby, Rove, and Armitage. That case hinges on slightly different facts than the criminal case. It is about whether or not these four -- this group of people retaliated against Joe Wilson and Valerie Wilson for Joe Wilson speaking out, about the prewar intelligence, and not just about whether Scooter Libby lied.
PHILLIPS: Are you still considering further action against the vice president of the United States? Against Karl Rove?
SLOAN: Well, they're all named in the suit. So, vice president and Karl Rove are named in the suit. And it's our hope that we'll have the chance to take their depositions and learn a great deal more about their involvement in this conspiracy to retaliate to Joe Wilson for talking about the prewar intelligence.
PHILLIPS: How are you going to prove that conspiracy?
SLOAN: Well, that's something -- we'll bring up through the courts, but we're looking forward to taking their depositions. That would be the only opportunity that the American public would have to hear the full story, straight from Vice President Cheney and Karl Rove, about what they were doing back in the White House in those pre- Iraq war days.
PHILLIPS: And in those depositions, what do you plan on asking? What are some of the pointed questions that you are eager to know, how they will respond?
Well, you -- we're eager to learn a great deal more about what they knew about Joe Wilson and what they were willing to do to discredit him. And how far they were willing to go to expose Valerie Wilson's covert status and endanger both Valerie, her family and other people that she'd come in contact with.
But even more importantly, for the American people. I think there's a real question here about how the White House chose to manipulate information running up to the war, intelligence information, and we'd like the chance to ask some questions about that as well.
PHILLIPS: What would you say the underlying heart of this suit is for you? Is it what you say, was a conspiracy theory regarding outing Valerie Plame, in order to retaliate against Joseph Wilson. Or do you think it is even bigger than that? Do you think this is about bringing down members of the Bush administration?
SLOAN: Oh, no. This case isn't about a goal of bringing down the Bush administration. It's about informing the American public about how the highest echelons of government -- how people at the highest echelons of government, were willing to misuse and abuse their positions of power in order to retaliate against a critic. And they brought the full weight of the government against a critic.
PHILLIPS: What is your next move, Melanie Sloan?
SLOAN: Well, the case has motions -- the defendants all filed motions to dismiss in this case. We'll have an oral argument on that matter on May 17.
PHILLIPS: Will we hear from your clients, Joe or Valerie Wilson?
SLOAN: Yes, you'll hear from Joe Wilson. In fact, he'll be on CNN later today. He'll be on "Larry King Live" tonight.
PHILLIPS: Perfect plug. Melanie Sloan, executive director of Citizen for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. Also representing Valerie Wilson and her husband, Joe Wilson. Appreciate your reaction today.
SLOAN: Thanks. LEMON: "Larry King Live" airs at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.
Let's get to some business news. After a week of big declines, the financial markets are finally staging a comeback. Does that mean the weeklong sell off is over? Susan Lisovicz joins us from the New York Stock Exchange with the answers on that.
Hi, Susan.
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Don. There's been drama in Washington, and there has certainly been drama on Wall Street. And it was just one week ago today that the Dow industrials plunged 550 points to close lower by 416 point.
Happy to tell you, one week later, we have a very nice rebound. After five days of selling, Asian markets turned higher; Wall Street following along. Check out the numbers -- triple digit gains for the Dow industrials. Up 118 points or 1 percent. The Nasdaq is doing even better, up 37 points, 1.5% A lot of power behind the rally today, big volume. There are four stocks going up for every one that is going down.
The tech-heavy Nasdaq benefiting from a 1.5 percent gain in it's shares of Apple and 2 percent gain in shares of Google. The two companies teaming up to work on new projects. Trading has been volatile. A lot of folks say we're not out of the woods just yet. Some analysts saying investor confidence is still down, the market needs to see another three days or so of stable to improving markets for investors to be convinced of that.
Stay tuned, Don, I know you will.
LEMON: And, Susan, if I'm not at work tomorrow, and you're not at work and Kyra is not here, you'll know what?
LISOVICZ: Guess I will.
LEMON: We won that big mega -- what is it? Megabucks or $370 million --
LISOVICZ: The lottery. Yeah, I would suggest putting your money in blue chips because the odds on that are so remote, Don. It will be a while before we retire. I think this market will turn around.
LEMON: Yeah.
LISOVICZ: But no one has won the multi-state lottery for 15 straight weeks, so the jackpot keeps mounting. It could go even higher making it one of the biggest lottery pay outs in U.S. history. The hype is so big that the drawing tonight has been moved from -- your hometown in Atlanta -- to Times Square.
Lottery machines in the 12 participating states are cranking out tickets like crazy, especially $1 tickets, which are being sold at a rate of $1 million each hour.
We all dream about winning, but it's a real long shot, about one in 176 million, but if you do hold the winning ticket, you stand to win $277 million, after federal taxes are withheld, if you take the lump sum payment. That doesn't count state taxes, though, which vary.
An final ironic note, this is Problem Gambling Awareness Week. I just wanted to pass that along. That's the latest from Wall Street.
Coming up, pain at the pump. It's that time again. I'll have detail next hour. You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.
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LEMON: Let's head over to the breaking news desk. Betty Nguyen working on a developing story.
What do you have, Betty?
BETTY NGUYENL, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Well, it is actually two stories that were sparked by a situation at LAX. Let's start there. A man was detained earlier today because it was believed that he had a suspicious package. That person's bags actually got on a U.S. Airways flight.
You know how you check in your bag and sometimes it makes it to the plane before you do. He was detained and never made it to that plane. But his bags did and that plane took off. It was Flight 1422. It was headed from LAX to Philadelphia, but it was forced to land at McHeron (ph) Airport in Las Vegas, around 11:16 Eastern today, because of those bags and the fact that the suspicious package was found on a man who owned those bag.
So, essentially, the passengers had to be removed from that plane. The bag was removed as well. Those passengers had to go through some more screenings, just in case, and that flight will begin shortly.
As for the man detained at LAX, we don't know a lot about that situation except for that -- the airport is up and running at this hour. But he was detained and they won't elaborate exactly on what this suspicious package was, except that it may have been some wires or something in it. And we don't know where that man is at this hour.
But none of the terminals have been shut down at this point or anything like that. So as soon as we get more information on the details of that suspicious package and why they stopped him, if he was acting suspiciously, along with what he had with him, we're trying to get more information on that and as soon as we do, we'll bring it straight to you.
LEMON: All right, we'll check back. Thank you, Betty.
PHILLIPS: Vice President Cheney has a case of what some call economy class syndrome; a serious condition. Are you at risk? Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta steps into the NEWSROOM with a closer look straight ahead.
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LEMON: It is 1:48. Here are some of the stories we're working for you here in the NEWSROOM today. Starting with this story, it's a developing one, Lewis Libby, guilty. The jury convicts the former White House aide of obstructing the probe into the leak of the CIA operative's identity.
Libby lawyers plan to ask for a new trial. Also in the NEWSROOM, more eyes on the Walter Reed hospital where wounded U.S. soldiers say they were poorly treated. A Senate panel has opened hearings following House's Lead. Also President Bush has appointed former Senate Bob Dole and former Health Secretary Donna Shalala to lead an investigation into that problem.
And it's not quite a record, but it's big. Really big. Look at that, the Mega-Millions multi-state lottery drawing is tonight. At stake, Kyra Phillips, $355 million. That's the jackpot.
PHILLIPS: Let's talking about the odds. That's part, too.
LEMON: Yeah.
PHILLIPS: Vice President Dick Cheney will be taking extra medication for the next few months after a health scare. Doctors found a blood clot in his left leg yesterday, a condition that could be deadly if left untreated. CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes a look at the dangers of deep vein thrombosis.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (On camera): One of the things that struck me the most is that DVT is probably a lot more common than you think, about one in 1,000 Americans actually have DVT.
The good news is that most people won't know they have it and certainly won't lead to any problems later on down the line.
Now, in Vice President Cheney's case, what we're hearing is he had some leg pain, some leg cramping, that prompted a visit to his doctor where he subsequently had an ultra sound that found the DVT. He's now on blood thinning medications as well.
One of the things that can happen, it's rare, but can happen with DVT is it can turn actually turn into something known as a pulmonary embolism. In other words what you're looking at here is a clot, actually, from the leg that has broken off, traveled through the blood vessel system and ended up in the lungs.
That is pulmonary embolism. It can cause shortness of breath and sometimes cause death. It's estimated between 100,000 and 200,000 people a year die from pulmonary embolism. In rare cases it might also cause a heart attack or a stroke if there is an abnormality of heart.
People may remember that Vice President Gore, as well, did develop a DVT while he was campaigning for president in 2000. David Bloom, an NBC journalist developed a DVT that subsequently led to an pulmonary embolism, which ended up leading to his death. That was in 2003.
Melanie Bloom, his wife, has actually become the spokesperson for the national coalition to prevent DVT. She talks about some of the risk factors that he had, and some of the ideas that he had a coagulation disorder, where it actually causes blood to clot too much. That can be a risk factor. Also, low blood flow due to injury, due to surgery, or just being immobile. Or if you are age 60 or older, just being overweight as well.
Again, as we mentioned, the vice president -- vice president Cheney is on blood thinners, that's a typical treatment for DVT. He's being allowed to walk after being diagnosed with DVT and being on these blood thinner medications.
He had been traveling a lot, 65 hours, we heard, on an airplane. That is one of the risk factors as well, just keeping yourself immobile. If you're worried because you have leg cramping, because you have discoloration of you skin, because it's hurting a little bit. You may want to get it checked out. Again, it just involves a simple ultra sound, a good thing to know ahead of time. Back to you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: And there are a number of other ways to prevent a deep vein clot, The government advises you to exercise your lower leg muscles if you have to sit still for a very long time, during a flight, for example. And if you have been bedridden for long periods, try to get out of bed and move around as soon as you are able. And take any drugs prescribed by your doctor to prevent or treat blood clots after surgery.
LEMON: There are new details in the case of a jilted astronaut. That's straight ahead, right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
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LEMON: The details of this case are captivating, a gruesome murder, a cover up, a man hunt, and a confession. Today we get our first look at Steven Grant, in court, pushed in a wheelchair due to frostbite damage. The accused wife killer was arraigned on charges of first degree, premeditated murder, and mutilation.
The torso of his wife, Tara, was found in the couple's suburban Detroit garage Friday, with other body parts scattered around a nearby park. Grant had reported Tara missing, but police say he's has now admitted to killing her, while their two children slept. Later today child protective services are expected to be given legal jurisdiction over the two children.
PHILLIPS: Investigation in Georgia, and mourning in Ohio. Funerals begin tomorrow for the victims of last week's horrific bush crash in Atlanta. The bus was carrying member of the Bluffton University baseball team, when it plunged over an overpass. Four players were killed, as were the bus driver and his wife. Another 29 people were onboard, where hurt. Bluffton University's president says the school has been overwhelmed with the support.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES HARDER, PRES., BLUFFTON UNIVERSITY: Bluffton University and its baseball team will move forward. We will move past this tragedy, never forgetting the human toll that it has taken here. On behalf of the entire Bluffton community, all I can say, from the bottom of my heart, to so many of you, is thank you. Thank you for being with us during this tragedy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Baseball team's coach and five players remain hospitalize in Atlanta.
The NASA love triangle has gotten even tawdrier -- if possible -- with the release of some e-mails that may have sparked Lisa Nowak's drive to Florida in diapers. She allegedly stalked and tried to kidnap Colleen Shipman. Prosecutors say Nowak had uncovered some spicy e- mails Shipmen sent to NASA shuttle Pilot Bill Oefelein.
A sample line, quote, "first urge will be to rip your clothes off," unquote. Oefelein has confirmed to investigators that he and Nowak had been romantically involved since 2004.
LEMON: Wounded over there, neglected over here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After we complained several times to get someone just to come in and a mop on the floor, my mom took a towel from the bathroom and got it wet and drug it back and forth across the floor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: War stories from the home front just ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.
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