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Nancy Grace
Couey Found Guilty of Jessie Lunsford Murder
Aired March 07, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight straight out of a Florida courtroom, a Florida jury says guilty in the capital murder of the girl in the pink hat, 9-year-old Jessie Lunsford. Already a known child predator, John Evander Couey just convicted of murder, burglary, sex assault and kidnap, Couey now facing the Florida death penalty. A convicted sex offender with a 30-year criminal history -- that`s right, 30 years -- what was he doing back on the streets, living across the way from 9-year-old Jessie Lunsford? Tonight, Jessie`s father and mother join us post-verdict in their first primetime live interview.
And tonight, cause of death, autopsy results in the sudden and unexpected death of covergirl Anna Nicole Smith on hold. The chief medical examiner says the true cause of death will not be released. But why? We now learn police still investigating the covergirl`s death. Is foul play suspected?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, BROWARD COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: If you find pills in the stomach or you find evidence of needle tracks on the arms, then obviously, you have a suspicion, which might be verified by toxicology or not. But the only way to make the final determination is by toxicology. And again, what`s important, it`s not the nature of the drug only, but also the blood levels of the drug because those are going to indicate whether they play a role in the death.
GRACE: Reports are out that Anna Nicole Smith actually died of pneumonia, which would largely explain her 105-degree fever just before her death. Is that true?
PERPER: Nancy, there are a lot of supposition and wild assertions which don`t rely on anything but imagination. All those rumors are really unfounded. They don`t have any leg to stand on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. But first, guilty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, find as follows as to the defendant in this case. The defendant is guilty of murder in the first degree as charged in the indictment. So say we all the 7th day of March, AD 2007, at Miami-Dade County, Florida, Pedro Laguna (ph) foreperson.
Verdict count two. We, the jury, find as follows as to the defendant in this case. The defendant is guilty of burglary of a dwelling with a battery as charged in the indictment. So say we all this 7th day of March AD...
Verdict count three. We, the jury find as follows as to the defendant in this case. The defendant is guilty of kidnapping as charged in the indictment. So say we all...
Verdict count four. We, the jury, find as follows as to the defendant in this case. The defendant is guilty of sexual battery on a child under 12 years of age. So say we all...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where do you go?
COUEY: I take her to my house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Into your bedroom?
COUEY: Yes, sir, through that ladder y`all have.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Through your bedroom window?
COUEY: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happens next?
COUEY: Then I sexually assaulted her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have sex with her?
COUEY: Yes, I had intercourse with her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (DELETED) sex?
COUEY: Sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you put your (DELETED) inside her (DELETED)?
COUEY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did she -- how did she get her clothes off?
COUEY: I told her to take them off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You told her to take -- she took them off?
COUEY: Yes. She tried to put them back on (INAUDIBLE) leave them off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
COUEY: She put them back on. I just -- you know, I had intercourse with her.
COUEY: It was, like, three days or something like that she stayed in the closet and I was feeding her. You know, I wouldn`t let her starve, gave her water and stuff like that.
I went out there one night and dug a hole and put her in it, buried her (INAUDIBLE) plastic bag, plastic baggies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was she dead already?
COUEY: No, she was still alive. I buried her alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where`s her dolphin at?
COUEY: In there, buried with her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the bag with her?
COUEY: Yes, sir. I let her keep it. She wanted to take it with her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you get rid of her?
COUEY: I put her in a bag.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of bag?
COUEY: Plastic garbage bag, black bags.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she try to scream?
COUEY: No. I swear to God. You can look at her expression. No, she didn`t scream because I took her right outside. It was at night when I did it.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Repeat. Straight out of a Florida courtroom, a Florida jury has just handed down a capital murder conviction on John Evander Couey. Next, the death penalty phase, set to kick off next week.
With us tonight, very special guests, the father and mother of little Jessie, commonly known as "the girl in the pink hat." Mark Lunsford is joining us there outside the courthouse. Also with us, her mother, Angela Wright. To both of you, welcome.
MARK LUNSFORD, FATHER: Good evening, Nancy.
GRACE: First to you, Mark. In the courtroom, when you heard the word "guilty" ring out, what went through your mind and your body?
LUNSFORD: That justice will prevail. I mean, that`s what I`ve said all along. They had a good case, and they tried it and they won.
GRACE: Also with us, Angela Wright. This is Jessie`s mother. Angela, you were living in another state at the time that Jessie was kidnapped from her own home, in the safety of her grandparents` home, asleep, holding onto a little stuffed animal. Do you recall when you first learned that Jessie had been taken?
ANGELA WRIGHT, MOTHER: Yes.
GRACE: What happened?
WRIGHT: What happened when they took her?
GRACE: When you learned she was gone.
WRIGHT: I was terrified. The detectives come to my house and told me, and I was just terrified. It took me not even probably eight hours to get out of there and come to Florida.
GRACE: Mark, when you were sitting in the courtroom, looking at John Evander Couey throughout the trial, there were a couple of times I was watching you, I thought that you were going to leap across those pews. They`re like church or synagogue pews -- that`s the look. I thought you were going to leap across the pews and throttle him. How did you hold back that sentiment?
LUNSFORD: Well, because it`s a trial. It would mean everything. I mean, you can`t make mistakes during a trial like this, or you can`t lash out and attack anybody because then the system will fail and it`ll be your fault.
GRACE: I`d like to point out to everybody that Mark Lunsford isn`t just sitting on his thumb. He has gone back and forth to Washington ever since this happened to battle to protect children. And he`s on his way there again, as soon as the penalty phase is done.
Let`s go to the lines. Cheryl in Connecticut. Hi, Cheryl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First of all, my most heartfelt condolences go out to the Lunsford family. And my question is, when all of this was going on, it was my understanding that John Couey moved in with his sister, who lived across the street from the Lunsfords. And apparently, since he was already a known sex offender, can the sister be held for abetting a criminal, or even on a worse charge, since she knew he was a sex offender and allowed him to come live with her?
GRACE: Cheryl, I`m sick about it. I feel that there is no way, if Couey`s telling the truth, that this family did not know he had Jessie there in the mobile home.
I want to go out to Eben Brown, reporter with 970 WFLA radio. He`s been in court every single day. Eben, why aren`t they being prosecuted?
EBEN BROWN, 970 WFLA RADIO: Well, a couple of reasons, Nancy. First and foremost, there is -- or up until this instance, there hasn`t been a law that says you have to tell police where a sex offender is hiding, if police are looking for them. And that`s, you know, one thing that they`re not going to be charged with because at the time that this was going on, there was no law that they broke.
In addition, there`s the fact that they were, by their own admission, very high on drugs at the time that this was going on. And if they were that high on drugs, they may not have even known that Jessie was in the house with them.
GRACE: Let me just remind everybody tonight -- let`s unleash the lawyers, Joining us, Renee Rockwell and Sandy Schiff. Renee Rockwell, the voluntary consumption of alcohol or drugs is not a defense, not unless you are comatose, basically in a coma, which they were not. And I would like to remind both of you defense attorneys about a little thing called obstruction of justice. There`s no duty on anyone to be a good Samaritan under our jurisprudence system. However, if police ask you a question and you lie, that is obstruction, Renee!
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s obstruction. It`s a false statement. And in a situation like this -- your caller called in with a question about, Could she be at fault? Maybe not for telling them that there was a sex offender in the house, but certainly, if she had any knowledge whatsoever that the girl might have been in the house, she should have come forward and been forthcoming in that investigation, Nancy. She could be prosecuted.
GRACE: Back to Mark Lunsford. This is Jessie Lunsford`s father. You know him well by now. He`s crusaded for children rights ever since the death of his daughter, Jessie. Mark, I remember very, very well when Jessie first went missing. Did you ever think you would see this day in a court of law, a guilty verdict?
LUNSFORD: Well, yes, I did because, I mean, I had talked to the prosecutors and I`d spoke with the sheriff. I mean, they let me know what kind of case they had built up against him. I mean, we had what people thought were downfalls, when things got thrown out, but that`s just a matter of eliminating appeals. And look what we got, from all the decisions that the judge made. Even though people didn`t like him, look what we got from his decisions. We got four guilty verdicts.
GRACE: Mark, during the trial, did you make eye contact with the jury? Could you tell which way they were leaning?
LUNSFORD: Not really. I mean, I really wasn`t trying, you know, to observe their -- and try to think about what they might be thinking. I mean, what does it mean if someone raises an eyebrow? I mean, to each of us, it`s different. I mean, they were chosen for a job, and that`s what they did. And that`s what they`re doing.
GRACE: To Mark Lunsford`s attorney. Mark Gellman is joining us. He`s a veteran trial lawyer himself. Mark Gellman, did you happen to notice these during the trial? They`re Crayola crayons. And during the trial, I saw John Evander Couey, a convicted sex offender -- this is not the first time he has targeted a little girl -- coloring in front of the jury. There you go. What was that all about, Gellman?
MARK GELLMAN, MARK LUNSFORD`S ATTORNEY: Nancy, I think that was just a big charade by the defense. They brought up this ridiculous mental retardation issue that`s going to be rebutted next week in the penalty phase of the trial. It`s funny that you mention that. I was on the telephone. From where I was sitting, I couldn`t see Couey very well, but I saw him with the crayons. And my partner, Theo Johns (ph), was sitting in Jacksonville, and he told me that he was watching Couey as the jury came back in and during the actual announcement of what the sentencing was, and he said that there wasn`t any drawing going on at all.
I`m convinced that that`s purely an act. I think Judge Howard was right to allow him to do it. You know, he didn`t really have a choice. It wasn`t harming anything. And obviously, the jury, they saw through all of that, with the easy conviction today.
GRACE: Well, speaking of the mental retardation or mental defect defense, defense attorneys, get ready. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
COUEY: That`s what I`m trying to say. I don`t have her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Johnny, do you know where she`s at?
COUEY: No, sir. That`s what I`m trying to say. I don`t have her. I don`t know where she is. I don`t have her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever had any kind of relationship with her?
COUEY: I don`t even know her, how can I have a relationship with her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you tell us you don`t know her, but that don`t mean you don`t know her.
COUEY: I swear to God, I don`t know the little girl.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Back out to the lawyers. Renee Rockwell, Sandy Schiff. You`re both veteran defense attorneys. Sandy Schiff, he spoke to police for a really long time, well over an hour, very coherent, gave them a complete denial until, ruh-roh (ph), a little DNA problem cropped up. So how can a guy that can hold it together under intense police questioning for that long, denying -- how can they with a straight face tell a jury he`s mentally retarded?
SANDY SCHIFF, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I guess they found an expert who would testify and support their theory.
GRACE: Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
COUEY: I take her to my house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Into your bedroom?
COUEY: Yes, sir, through that ladder y`all have.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Through your bedroom window?
COUEY: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happens next?
COUEY: Then I sexually assaulted her.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have sex with her?
COUEY: Yes, I had intercourse with her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (DELETED) sex?
COUEY: Sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you put your (DELETED) inside her (DELETED)?
COUEY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did she -- how did she get her clothes off?
COUEY: I told her to take them off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You told her to take -- she took them off?
COUEY: Yes. She tried to put them back on (INAUDIBLE) leave them off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
COUEY: She put them back on. I just -- you know, I had intercourse with her.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
COUEY: It was, like, three days or something like that she stayed in the closet and I was feeding her. You know, I wouldn`t let her starve, gave her water and stuff like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I`m just sitting here coloring away, just like John Evander Couey. Uh-oh! Hangman`s noose. Next phase, death penalty.
Straight back out to you, Eben Brown. When does the death penalty phase begin?
BROWN: They`re going to have the sentencing phase starting next week. It`s expect to take a while because the defense is going to present a case that John Couey is mentally retarded. And of course, the law says if the person is mentally retarded, they can`t be put to death for, you know, being found guilty of a crime.
GRACE: I want to go back to Mark Lunsford and his former wife, Angela Wright. This is the mom and dad of little Jessie. To you, Mark Lunsford. What do you think of the mental retardation defense?
LUNSFORD: Well, if you was retarded, wouldn`t you grab the dog instead of the kid? If you was retarded, why would they give him sharp pencils to poke his eyes out with? I`m not a doctor, and the one that was there that testified made it quite clear to me that he didn`t have anything to prove it. This was just all his opinion. And his opinion is only -- the only time he gives his opinion is when he`s defending a sex offender.
GRACE: Why do you say that? Is this one of the doctors that only shows up when they get paid by the defense to show up in court?
LUNSFORD: Well, I mean, it was -- it was Louann`s (ph) doctor, the one that he had come. I don`t even remember his name. But you know, he just -- he rambled on a lot and he said a lot of things, but he didn`t have nothing to support what he said, and he plainly admitted that.
GRACE: Mark, I`m still wondering, during the trial, as you sat there and looked at the back of Couey`s head, did you think back? Did you allow yourself to think back on Jessie in life?
LUNSFORD: Sometimes. I mean, you know, when it got real rough for me, I`d pull out my laptop and I`d look at pictures, you know, to just try to break my concentration of what I was thinking about, you know, because some of it was pretty powerful, pretty hurtful.
GRACE: You know, Mark, when I was prosecuting, I would very often tell the victim`s family that I was about to introduce evidence of the autopsy or of, for instance, a sex attack on a child, or typically a child, a lady, so the family could leave. In my own case, I didn`t want to hear that type of evidence. I didn`t want to hear it at the time. Did you stay in the courtroom for that evidence?
LUNSFORD: I stayed in there because I didn`t want her to be alone any more than she already had to. I mean, everybody called me. I mean, I got -- John called me, the attorney -- the prosecutors tried to tell me, Hey, you don`t have to be in here for certain things. You know, We can`t make you stay out, but we`re telling you you should. And I didn`t want to leave her behind. You know, she already got left alone, and I just -- I wasn`t going to leave her alone through this. And what I learned from all this just gives me more to testify with when I testify in other states about Jessie`s law.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Evander Couey, please rise and hearken to jury`s verdicts with counsel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The state of Florida versus John Evander Couey. The defendant is guilty of murder in the first degree...
The defendant is guilty of burglary of a dwelling with a battery...
The defendant is guilty of kidnapping...
The defendant is guilty of sexual battery on a child under 12 years of age...
The defendant is guilty...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A Florida jury hands down a guilty verdict against John Evander Couey, a known sex predator who was out roaming free, living catty- cornered across from 9-year-old Jessie Lunsford. Now the penalty phase.
Out to the lines. Kim in Florida. Hi, Kim.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I have a big question. What is going to happen to those drawings that Couey was drawing in court? Is some court janitor going to pull them out of the trash and try to sell them for big bucks on eBay? Where did they go?
GRACE: I wouldn`t be surprised. To you, Eben Brown with 970 WFLA radio. What happened to all those? Uh-oh, Eben can`t hear me. Let me try Mark. Mark Lunsford, Mark Gellman, you guys were in court. What happened to all those drawings? I don`t want to see them pop up on eBay. Mark?
LUNSFORD: I have no idea.
GELLMAN: You know, one of the witnesses said that he discarded them, John Reed (ph). And the other guard said that she actually had kept 24 or 25 of them.
GRACE: Why?
GELLMAN: But she didn`t comment on what she was doing with them. I have no idea. The question wasn`t asked. It was kind of a surprise to us. I would hope that the guard wouldn`t try to profit off of this, and certainly Couey wouldn`t profit off of this (INAUDIBLE) he gave the paintings away. I just hope there`s no one out there that would be willing to spend money on one of these things.
GRACE: Oh, believe me, there are people that will buy anything.
I want to go to Angela Wright. This is Jessie`s mom. I know that you were not jubilant after the guilty verdict because you still don`t have Jessie back, but what was your thought when you heard that guilty verdict read in court?
WRIGHT: I was just glad. I was glad that he got it. Jessie got her justice almost here. She won`t get her justice until he`s sentenced. But as for right now, he`s got the guilty charge. So it makes me feel a little bit better, but it will never take away the pain that we`ve all went through.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LUNSFORD: Justice will prevail. I mean, that`s what I`ve always said. But it`s not over yet. We`re not finished. This is only the first part. We`ve still got the second part. I mean, if you want to be excited about it, that`s OK. That`s good. If it gives you closure, that`s good. But not yet. Not for us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. A jury hands down a guilty verdict in the case of John Evander Couey. And with us tonight, in their first primetime live interview, both her mother and father.
To you, Mark Lunsford. I know there was no jubilation today, no celebration. A lot of people think people celebrate when you get a guilty verdict. What was your feeling when you walked out of that courtroom after the guilty verdict?
LUNSFORD: Well, I mean, there`s some relief, Nancy, because, I mean, we`re halfway through this. The verdict`s been passed down, and now it`s time for the sentencing phase. And the sentencing phase is going to be kind of messed up, man, because, I mean -- I mean, we talk about retardation and stuff, but you know, really, it`s an insult to the people that do have these handicaps and that really are retarded. I mean, and that`s -- I mean, for them to say something that`s not true, to use someone else`s endeavor to make their case so they can get off a murder? I mean, you know, that`s kind of messed up.
GRACE: So instead of really feeling any relief, it feels -- I`m hearing that the two of you are bracing yourselves for the penalty phase, Mark.
LUNSFORD: Yes. Well, I mean, you have to. I mean, we don`t know what`s going to happen. We just have to wait.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN EVANDER COUEY, ACCUSED MURDERER: I went out there one night, and dug a hole, and put her in it, buried her (INAUDIBLE) plastic bag, plastic baggies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was she dead already?
COUEY: No, she was still alive. I buried her alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where`s her dolphin at?
COUEY: In there, buried with her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the bag with her?
COUEY: Yes, sir. I let her keep it. She wanted to take it with her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you get rid of her?
COUEY: I put her in a bag.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of bag?
COUEY: Plastic garbage bag, bag, bags.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she scream?
COUEY: No, I swear to God. You can look at her expression -- no, she didn`t scream, because I took her right outside. It was at night when I did it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: John Evander Couey convicted today by a Florida jury. Now, the penalty phase. Couey facing the Florida electric chair or the needle, lethal injection. Throughout the trial, he insisted on coloring in front of the jury.
In case you think he doesn`t know what`s going on, don`t worry about that. Whenever the lawyers would go up to the side bar, he knew very well to pick up an earpiece, and slide it into his ear, and listen to what was being said, and then take it out, and set it down when the side bar was over. Talk about a jailhouse lawyer.
I want to go to Mark Hillman, psychotherapist and author. Dr. Hillman, how is it -- how can two shrinks, two psychiatrists have such different opinions as to this guy`s level of awareness?
MARK HILLMAN, CLINICAL PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, you mentioned it before, 30 years of deviant behavior, and this guy`s hired as a top gun to defend them, to justify it. And you know you can do that with psychological tests.
Two prison terms, two stints in jail, but it`s interesting, he`s smart enough to flee Florida, and he was arrested in Georgia. So I have a real hard time with this mental retardation thing. As Mark Lunsford said, it`s an insult to the people with those types of disabilities.
GRACE: And the fact that he was sitting there coloring, Mark Hillman, coloring with his trusty Crayolas throughout the trial, what is that all about?
HILLMAN: That`s a charade. That`s misdirection to try and get some empathy or sympathy from the jurors. And as Mark Gellman said, I believe they completely saw through that because they got four counts of guilty.
GRACE: And to you, Mark Lunsford. Mark, and the mother of Jesse Lunsford, Angela Wright, with us, how long was the jury out? How long did they deliberate, Mark Lunsford?
MARK LUNSFORD, DAUGHTER JESSICA ABDUCTED AND MURDERED: I think it was like three or four hours, about four hours, maybe a little more.
GRACE: Angela, what were you doing during those four hours when the jury was deliberating the death of your daughter?
ANGELA WRIGHT, MOTHER OF JESSICA LUNSFORD: Waiting patiently, standing outside the courthouse waiting.
GRACE: You know, Angela, that would always be the hardest time of a jury trial for me. Because, at that time, I would have done my openings, my closings. I would have argued to the jury, put up all the evidence, and then it`s out of your hands. You have no more control over what`s going to happen in the courtroom. What was going through your mind as you waited?
WRIGHT: Everything, wondering what they were going to come back with, just worried, really worried.
GRACE: Worried.
To Paulette Norman, victims` right advocate with the McKay Foundation, and author, welcome back to the show, Paulette. It`s great to see you again. Paulette, what can parents do to protect their children? In this case, Jesse Lunsford was at home. She wasn`t a juvenile delinquent. A good student, good girl, at home with her parents, tucked away with her little stuffed animal.
PAULETTE NORMAN, MCKAY FOUNDATION: It happens. It happened to McKay. McKay was home. Where I can look back with hindsight, I realize now that I should have started very young with McKay, very early on, discussing with him what could happen in life, if he were faced in certain circumstances.
And I believe -- you know, you`ll hear me say over and over, I believe in education, education, education. I`m a retired schoolteacher. I could have taught McKay how to be safer.
You and I can divide. We can divide because we were taught how to divide. Our boys and girls can be taught how to be safe; we just aren`t doing that. There`s no way to give everyone a jail sentence. They`re out there. Not all of them will ever be in jail.
GRACE: To Mark Lunsford, Mark, I kept hearing testimony about the purple dolphin. Will you tell the viewers what that is?
LUNSFORD: Well, the purple dolphin is what I won her at the fair the Sunday before, along with the pink hat. That`s where the purple dolphin came from.
But, I mean, just people should be supportive to what`s going on in their communities. They should call their legislators, regardless of what state they live in. They should find out what kind of legislation they have.
We need your help in getting more legislation passed on a state level and a federal level. And if there`s something that you can do to help, contact us through the JessicaMarieLunsfordFoundation.org.
GRACE: JessicaMarieLunsfordFoundation.org. And I also want to point out that I recently ran into Mark Lunsford in the halls of Congress, and he was there begging -- it`s amazing that you have to beg our representatives and senators to do something to protect children.
But I literally ran into him. And I said, "How did you afford to come here?" And he hardly had the money to get there, but he took off of work and went to beg and to try to get Congress to act.
Very quickly, to Dr. Levy, medical examiner, Dr. Bruce Levy, the medical examiner in this case told the jury this little girl had been sexually attacked between two and six hours before her death. How can he establish that timeline?
DR. BRUCE LEVY, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, we do it through our examinations. Not only, you know, just as any of us get injured, we see that injury change over time before our very eyes.
But we can also look at those injuries under the microscope. And we can look at very classic changes in the body, and see how those changes have occurred, and then be able to estimate how long those injuries were there.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Laurie in Pennsylvania, hi, Laurie.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I was wondering if you could tell me if the jury knows that that earpiece he`s putting in his ear allows him to hear the judge and the attorneys for the side bar?
GRACE: Good question. Mark Gellman, this is Mark Lunsford`s attorney, and now friend. Mark, do you think the jury figured out what he was doing with that earpiece?
MARK GELLMAN, MARK LUNSFORD`S ATTORNEY: Yes. I mean, I`m sure -- they looked at him when he put the earpiece in. And I could tell by their body language and the way their faces looked that they were paying attention to what he was doing. And every time they went to a side bar, he put the earpiece in. And I think that`s one of the other things that they saw through all week.
GRACE: The video we were showing you is the digging effort to find little Jesse. We know learn that Jesse was buried alive.
Out to Mike in Minnesota. Hi, Mike.
CALLER: Hi. My question is, was he put on suicide watch for -- because he`s mentally retarded and stuff?
GRACE: Was he put on suicide watch?
Let`s try Eben Brown again, with 970 WFLA Radio. Was he ever put on suicide watch? I had not heard that. The last I heard, they were giving him lattes behind bars and letting him watch Dr. Phil.
EBEN BROWN, NEWSRADIO 970 WFLA: He I don`t believe was on suicide watch; however, he was in some sort of solitary confinement. He was alone in a cell that was designed to hold 15 people, in a block that had, I believe, four or five of those type of cells. He was the only one there. There was a guard constantly watching him.
But, yes, the guard did sometimes give him a Coca-Cola, or would change the channel on the TV for him, or would make him coffee, if John Couey requested it.
GRACE: Well, as much as I don`t appreciate him having cable TV behind bars, at least it did result in a confession that made it into evidence.
To Angela Wright -- this is Jesse`s mother -- and Mark Lunsford, both joining us tonight, first of all, I don`t know if you guys have any idea how many people around the world, that see this broadcast and others, have prayed for you, and thought of you, and wished you well during this trial.
To you, Angela Wright, final thought tonight?
WRIGHT: I`d just thank everybody that helped us through this, and all the detectives, and everybody that worked so hard. Just to let Mark know that I`m proud of him for everything that he`s done for Jesse. And I just -- I`m really amazed on all the work that he`s done and what he`s gotten through.
GRACE: Mark, I know that you and I will meet again in person and on the airwaves, but your final thought to the viewers tonight and to other crime victims?
LUNSFORD: Well, justice has just about ended. We`ve still got to do the sentencing. When that comes, then it will be the end of this trial. But don`t let it be the end of what we do for kids. We have to keep fighting.
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(NEWSBREAK)
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GRACE: Reports are out that Anna Nicole Smith actually died of pneumonia, which would largely explain her 105-degree fever just before her death. Is that true?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, BROWARD COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: Nancy, there are a lot of supposition and wild assertions, which don`t rely on anything but imagination, all those rumors are really unfounded. They don`t have any leg to stand upon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The cause of death of cover girl Anna Nicole Smith apparently known, but not released. Why? We now learn: because there is a pending police investigation.
Do they expect foul play in the death of the 39-year-old cover girl, Anna Nicole Smith? Hanging in the balance, a $475 million estate, possibly set to be inherited by little 6-month-old baby girl Dannielynn.
Out to David Caplan, deputy New York bureau chief with "Star," what`s the latest?
DAVID CAPLAN, "STAR" MAGAZINE: Well, the latest is that Dr. Perper does know the cause of death, but he`s not going to announce it for one to two weeks because he wants to wait for the Seminole Police Department to finish their investigation. And interestingly enough, this comes the same day we`re hearing that police interviewed Big Moe, who was Anna Nicole`s security guard, and he`s reportedly saying that Anna Nicole Smith, big surprise, was under a huge cloud and a lot of drugs. So it`s interesting the timing here.
GRACE: Out to Aiden Pickering, investigative reporter. We know the cause of death has been determined. We also know it`s not being released by the medical examiner because of ongoing police investigation. What investigation?
AIDAN PICKERING, "INSIDE EDITION": Well, the Seminole Police Department has been looking into the death of Anna Nicole Smith. But I think perhaps what is going on here is that, you know, coroners and police are a bit like two participants in a three-legged race. They`re kind of tied together, and one has to come up with some results before the next phase can be embarked upon.
And I suspect what`s happening here is that you`ve got the autopsy results, which have now been forwarded to the police, and the police are looking at them to see, you know, where their investigation may have to go before they wrap it up.
GRACE: Out to Virgie Arthur`s attorney. We knew him well down in the courtroom in Florida, Tom Pirtle. This week, Tom, we were supposed to get the official cause of death released. Now it`s not. We now learn there`s ongoing police investigation. What is it?
TOM PIRTLE, ATTORNEY FOR VIRGIE ARTHUR: Well, we were concerned about that, too. We`re concerned about who`s involved or if anybody was involved. And we`re concerned about the safety of Dannielynn. That`s our main focus right now.
GRACE: Do you know, Tom, what police are investigating?
PIRTLE: From what I`ve heard -- and it`s just speculation -- they`re investigating the cause of death of Anna Nicole. And, also, there`s an inquest going on in the Bahamas, I believe, as to Daniel`s cause of death.
GRACE: Well, actually, to you, James Neavitt -- this is Howard Stern`s attorney joining us tonight. As you know, Howard Stern named in Anna Nicole`s will as her executor. That will still not probated, which would make him the official executor.
Mr. Neavitt, thank you for being with us. What`s being investigated? What`s the holdup on the cause of death being released?
JAMES NEAVITT, HOWARD K. STERN`S ATTORNEY: Nancy, I have no information about that, other than what I`ve heard from you guys. I don`t know what`s going on in Florida or anything to do with that. And I don`t think Howard knows, either.
GRACE: Take a look at newly released video. Elizabeth, let`s show that to the viewers. As time goes on, more and more video is being released. Does any of this shed any light as to the cause of death of Anna Nicole?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNA NICOLE SMITH, FORMER MODEL: (INAUDIBLE) there`s no Santa Claus. That`s spaced out. I`m such a dork. Look what they got us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clothes (INAUDIBLE) clothes on her from Christmas, although it is cute. It is cute.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Just released video. Now, that was from FOX News Channel, showing Anna Nicole Smith opening gifts for her baby girl, Dannielynn, talking about Santa Claus, apparently at Christmastime.
To Dr. Bruce Levy, medical examiner. Dr. Levy, I`m no doctor, a medical doctor anyway, but typically a criminal investigation would not change because of death.
LEVY: No, it wouldn`t. And you wonder if the results are being held for one to two weeks. Typically, we`ll do that in cases where the police are conducting a criminal investigation and they don`t want information to get out that might impair their ability to investigate.
So that bring in the whole question of, why did she die? And what`s the cause of death? If it`s natural, if it`s a drug overdose, that usually closes a police investigation at that point.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Michael in Nevada, hi, Michael.
CALLER: How are you doing, Nancy?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CALLER: I was just wondering what you thought about O.J. Simpson`s claim that he might be the father of the baby?
GRACE: I think it`s incredible; I think it`s unbelievable; I think it`s classless; I think it`s ruinous to her reputation, which is already in tatters. And I don`t understand why any gentleman would come forward and make a nasty comment like that about Miss Smith. I think that her reputation and death has taken enough pot shots.
I want to go out to the lawyers. Renee Rockwell, Sandy Schiff, is there a way that Stern can be forced to testify at the inquest? This is a very big week, coming up in the next 10 days, legally. Sandy Schiff, can he be subpoenaed and forced to take the stand? We know there`s a police investigation going on.
SANDRA RUTH SCHIFF, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I would say that he would probably take the Fifth Amendment under those circumstances.
GRACE: What about it, Renee?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, now, that`s in the Bahamas. And I`m not a Bahaman lawyer, but I`ll tell you what, if he finds out that he`s a target in the investigation, he might need to lawyer up and remain silent.
GRACE: Well, let me make it clear: He`s not a target, that we know of, of any criminal investigation. However, back out to David Caplan, were some of the medications found in her hotel room made out to him?
CAPLAN: Yes, absolutely. The prescription bottles, like Xanax and methadone, they were all in Howard K. Stern`s name. So it`s very suspect.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PERPER: This is a rather complicated puzzle, in which a variety of elements, including my findings of the autopsy and additional tests, the microscopic examination, and various toxicological and virus studies have to be put all together. I`m confident that I`m going to be able to come up with a very clear determination of the cause of death.
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GRACE: Why isn`t the cause of death being released? We know that it has been determined. To former D.C. cop and FBI`er, a Fibber, Mike Brooks, Mike, not only has it been reported to TMZ, I believe, that the meds were prescribed to Stern, but now this bodyguard is claiming that his pattern of behavior was very different the day of the death.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: Well, that`s just one factor, Nancy. But I can tell you, the investigation is not over with. That`s why they`re not releasing anything.
Remember last week, you had law enforcement folks from Florida that were in the Bahamas. Well, I found out today from a source close to the investigation in Nassau, that, in fact, the Seminole police chief was also with the investigators.
So next week, you`re going to have a team of investigators going up to Seminole, from the Bahamas, from the Royal Bahamas Police Force, including possibly the commissioner, to look into the death of Anna Nicole, Daniel and also the break-in at the house. So it`s not over with.
GRACE: Mike Brooks involved in every aspect of this investigation. Thank you.
Let`s stop to remember Army Private First Class David Armstrong, just 21, Zanesville, Ohio. Armstrong dreamed of a career in law enforcement with the canine unit. He loved animals, especially his four dogs. Also loved football, baseball, karate and motorcycles. Favorite dish? Mac and cheese. He leaves behind grieving parents, Dave and Marcy, and a widow, Tazia (ph), his high school sweetheart. David Armstrong, American hero.
Thank you for being with us tonight. NANCY GRACE signing off. Good night, friend.
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