Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Privacy Vs. Security; Shooting In Florida; Timely Move?; Private Information Report
Aired March 09, 2007 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. I'm Heidi Collins.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Rick Sanchez. Tony Harris is off today.
Spend a second hour in the NEWSROOM this morning and stay informed. Here's what's on the rundown.
SANCHEZ: On the street, angry at the U.S., President Bush drawing a lot of protesters on his visits to different countries in South America.
COLLINS: New concerns today about your privacy and the Patriot Act. Did the FBI overreach to obtain phone, e-mail and bank records?
SANCHEZ: Also, a push it to the limit comedy show failed with the "n" word? And Some African-Americans say it's a good thing.
Friday, March 9th, you are in the CNN NEWSROOM.
Before we do anything else, let's get you caught up on a developing story that we're following right now. This is out of Pompano Beach, Florida, WSVN, Miami, providing those pictures for us. Somebody walked into a business there in Pompano Beach and shot somebody.
Now what's interesting is, police say -- well, wait a minute. We're now hearing from our producers, in fact, I'm told right now that police now think they may have the suspect cornered in this area.
I was just getting ready to tell you that the police had told us earlier that the suspect had gotten away. And it seems, they say, that when he went into this building, that he had a specific target in mind. That there was an intended victim that he shot. Because nobody else was at shot at, nobody else was shot. A couple of people were taken away by stretcher, but that's probably because of the shock of seeing this play out right before their eyes.
Police told us that this person was able to get away soon after the shooting took place. And they put out a BOLO for him.
Let's tell you some of the specifics about this case. It's the Florida Builders Appliances. It's right there on Atlantic Boulevard in Pompano Beach, for those of you familiar with the area here in south Florida. And the reports indicate from the police that the man walked in and then just opened fire. One victim, a female, reportedly by police, has been shot. And we just spoke with some fire rescue officials there on the scene and they're telling us that she is not doing well at all. Almost hinting that this is a grave condition that she's in at this point.
The suspect then took off. He got to his car, a four-door silver Honda, model 2005, and took off before police got there. So they immediately put out a BOLO, a be on the lookout. They alerted the media in the area. And there's been a frantic search for him ever since.
Up till now, though, they have not been able to find him, although, as you heard me tell you just moments ago, one of my producers has just told me in my ear that police seem to be hinting at the fact that they may have this man cornered in that area somewhere. Just where, we don't know.
There you see some of the workers who were there today. They've, obviously, been taken out of the building. The building itself is now a crime scene.
So, you know what we were doing -- you may have noticed I was stretching there a little bit. What we were hoping to do for you was bring you an interview with one of the police officials so he can tell us whether or not they think they're going to be able to catch this guy. But it doesn't seem like he's available now.
So let's do this. Let's continue with the newscast. If we're able to get this officer on the phone, we'll get to him right away. In the meantime, let's go on.
Heidi, to you.
COLLINS: The Middle East sneezes and the U.S. (INAUDIBLE) a shudder and gas prices soar. President Bush in Brazil this morning to sign an agreement on alternative fuels. Brazil, the worlds largest importer of ethanol. Hear now the president's comments from just a few minutes ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you're dependent upon oil from overseas, you have a national security issue. In other words, dependency upon energy from somewhere else means that you're dependent upon the decisions from somewhere else. And so as we diversify away from the use of gasoline by using ethanol, we're really diversifying away from oil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: But protesters are shadowing his visit to five Latin American countries. Thousands of demonstrators marched through Sao Paulo yesterday.
And anti-U.S. rallies turned violent in Columbia. That country due to host Mr. Bush on Sunday. Also on the president's itinerary, Uruguay, Guatemala and Mexico.
Troubling questions this morning about civil liberties versus national security. A report being released next hour accuses the FBI of reaching into private records a lot more than first thought. The Justice Department's inspector general says the FBI under reported the number of requests for private information by about 20 percent. One official points to shoddy bookkeeping. Critics want to know if the agency overstepped its authority under The Patriot Act. FBI Director Robert Mueller will hold a news conference at 11:30 a.m. Eastern to respond to that report. We, of course, will bring it to you live.
SANCHEZ: Well, the FBI audit report raises some series questions. And there's a special privacy and civil liberties oversight board that's being asked now to look into it. Former President Clinton and his administration's attorney, Lanny Davis, happens to be a member of that board and he's good enough to join us now.
All right. You're on the board. The title is, what, privacy and civil liberties. The first question to you, obviously, Lanny, is, does this look to you to possibly be a violation of either privacy or civil liberties?
LANNY DAVIS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: It certainly looks to me as possibly a violation, and a most serious violation of the use of letters that don't go through the traditional process. Under The Patriot Act they are allowed, called national security letters. We were briefed only a few hours at the Justice Department. We appreciate that. We're a board that was set up after the 9/11 Commission appointed by President Bush. And there are five of us.
But we're now being asked by the attorney general to look into this further. But I regarded even the brief information that I learned as extremely serious. The use of letters that demand private records, telephone records, of Americans, but not any showing of any probable cause that you would need for a subpoena to invade people's privacy rights.
This is very serious. And our board takes it seriously. And I get the impression that the FBI, as we'll hear from Director Mueller, also takes this very seriously.
SANCHEZ: There are some Americans, Lanny, and some of them are watching this newscast and listening to you right now who would arguing and say, look, if you're not a bad guy, if you don't have anything to hide, then what does it matter what the government does. To those people you respond how?
DAVIS: The framers of our Constitution probably heard that argument and said, we don't really need a fourth amendment. We don't need a protection from the British banging into a house and seizing people without probable cause. We don't need indictments and grand juries. If you're innocent, you don't have to worry.
Our Constitution means something. It means that police and the FBI can't just willie-nilly grab your privacy information without going through a process, a judicial process. If you believe in our Constitution, that argument makes no sense.
Now having said that, The Patriot Act was passed because of 9/11, because we need to stretch the envelope. But we have to stay within the Constitution, within the law. If we don't do that, then we're no different than the other side.
SANCHEZ: Is the idea to try and make it somewhat difficult for law enforcement to be able to garner a prosecution, that way it's not so easy, that way innocent people don't get wrapped up? Is that the argument?
DAVIS: Well, first of all, the current procedures don't make it difficult. In fact, they lowered the difficulty of getting subpoenas. And even under the terrorists surveillance program, President Bush has said that he has gone and the attorney general has gone to the special court that was set up to get permission to do the program and they're now doing it . . .
SANCHEZ: That's the argument that I'm making. Should we all, as Americans, be wise to make sure we don't make it too simple to be able to garner a prosecution?
DAVIS: There's a balance here. And that's a very, very valid question. And that's exactly what the privacy board that was established by the Congress, of which I serve as a member, is looking at, is the balance between going after what we know are serious threats of terrorists -- and there have been successes in intercepting terrorist plots because of these programs -- while still protecting the basic tenets of our Constitution.
There doesn't have to be an either/or choice. But these national security letters -- understand, The Patriot Act may have permitted them, but they have been abused. And the FBI is admit that they've been abused. There may have been legal violations.
And we've got to be sure that FBI agents don't take advantage of simply writing a letter and demanding people's privacy information without even a showing of specific probable cause that would be required under a subpoena. We gave them that authority, which is dangerous to give any law enforcement officer on their own, without going through judicial process, trusting that they would follow religiously the procedures imposed on them by the management at the FBI in Washington, as well as the Justice Department. This didn't happen and we have to find out why and make sure it never happens again.
SANCHEZ: Lanny Davis, we thank you, my friend, for joining us this morning and sharing your insight on this.
DAVIS: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: We certainly appreciate it.
DAVIS: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Heidi. COLLINS: Want to go ahead and update you now on the story that we're been following this morning, a workplace shooting in Broward County, Florida. On the line with us, we have Elliot Cohen, a spokesman for the Broward County Sheriff's Office.
Could you tell us, Elliot, what the latest is? We're hearing a little bit about whether or not the suspect has been apprehended in this case?
ELLIOT COHEN, BROWARD COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: Well, the suspect has not been apprehended. We don't have him in custody. But we do have a car, which matches the description of the car from the shooting scene. And it's our belief, at least at this point, obviously these things change minute by minute, but we do believe it's the suspect's car.
COLLINS: Can you describe the car? Is it the one that we put out a little bit earlier, a four-door silver Honda, model year 2005?
COHEN: Yes, it's a silver Honda. We found it. It's currently parked outside a nearby grocery store. And we're in the process of setting up a perimeter, surrounding it and seeing who, if anyone, is inside. And, if not, obviously continuing the search. But we do believe it's the car.
COLLINS: OK. Quickly take us back, if you would, Elliott, to what happened here. We know that apparently someone walked into this Florida Builders Appliances workplace and started shooting. What do you know at the sheriff's office at this time as to what happened inside that building?
COHEN: Yes, it started about ten after 9:00 Eastern Time. As you mentioned, the suspect walked into the building, Florida Builders Appliances. It's in Pompano Beach, Florida. Opened fire. We know that several shots were fired.
As far as who the man is, we're not releasing his name at this point, but we do believe that he's a former employee of the business. We have at least one victim. A woman who was reported shot. I don't know her condition at this point, but we do think that there may be a relationship between the shooter and her. And then the shooter took off in the car we've been talking about, the four-door, silver Honda.
COLLINS: And so did I hear you correctly to say that you're not sure at this point whether or not someone is inside that car or that it is, in fact, the bandits?
COHEN: Well, you know, I mean, obviously, we spot the car. You don't want to approach the car right away.
COLLINS: Sure.
COHEN: You know, I don't have information, at least at this point, as to whether it's occupied or not. Although I have heard, you know -- we do believe that it is the car. So the pictures that I'm sure everyone's looking at is, you know, of the car and believe it's the right car. But you take these things slow, you know, when you've got someone that's obviously armed, someone who is obviously dangerous, there's no rush. You know, if you've got the car, surround the car and then you take it from there. So we're being as methodical and as careful as we can as far as making sure that he's there and making sure that's the car.
COLLINS: Yes, of course. And certainly no rush, unless he may be out and about running around still. I mean, clearly, that sounds like not the case. But we'd love to stay in touch with you, Elliott Cohen, a spokesman for the Broward County Sheriff's Office, as this story continues and learn just as quickly as we can whether or not the suspect has been apparent in this workplace shooting.
Again, we will try and find out the condition of the -- apparently female that was shot. We had been heard off the top of this story that she's not doing very well. So we want to stay on top of that. We'll bring it to you just as soon as we have any more information.
Meanwhile, another tragic turn this hour to that horrifying bus crash in Atlanta. A fifth Bluffton University baseball player died this morning at an Atlanta hospital. You see his picture there. Zach Arend had been in critical condition. Four other players, the bus driver and his wife died last Friday when their bus careened off an overpass bridge in Atlanta and crashed onto the interstate. An initial investigation indicates the driver was confused thinking he was still on the interstate, but he had actually exited the highway on an HOV exit lane, crossing over the overpass bridge before falling off.
A lot of questions surround that accident. CNN's special investigations unit takes a hard look at the controversy in a compelling documentary, "Fatal Journey: The Atlanta Bus Crash." Catch it on Saturday and Sunday. We will actually be talking about it with the correspondent, Drew Griffin, here on our program. But the entire documentary will come your way Saturday and Sunday night, 8:00 p.m. Eastern.
SANCHEZ: Their client list, rumored to hold 10,000 names. An alleged madam threatening to expose Washington's playboys. Her case in court this morning. And we'll have it for you right here in the NEWSROOM.
COLLINS: Children killed in a horrific house fire. Two families devastated. Now New York Muslim leaders lend a hand. We'll tell you that story in the NEWSROOM.
SANCHEZ: Also saving time, saving energy. Will setting our clocks ahead early this year make a difference? We will get you know from the NEWSROOM.
COLLINS: Hamburger on the go. Watch this bull make a fast trip through the McDonald's drive through and beyond.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Went through most of the housing additions and apartment complexes between here and there and one college and one water park.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Little does he know, huh?
COLLINS: Yes, steer on the lamb, get it? In the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Well, let's bring you up to date on this developing story once again. It's coming out of Pompano Beach, Florida. As you can see, it's a workplace shooting because a man who either worked or has worked in this business returned to the business with a gun and shot somebody there. Somebody he may have had some kind of relationship with. That person, a female that he shot, is not doing well. She seems to be in grave condition at this time.
And last word from police, and this is really just moments ago. Heidi was doing an interview with one of the police officials there. They said that they had found the vehicle that he got away in and that they may know that he's in that area but they haven't been able to make an arrest yet. But it does sound like they're close to making an arrest. Motive really still unknown. As we get more information on the condition of the victim, we'll certainly bring that to you as well.
COLLINS: Well, here's a reminder, set your clock ahead an hour on Sunday. And if you're upset at the earlier start to daylight savings time, you are not alone. CNN's Bob Franken reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): The airline industry calls the early jump ahead an onerous challenge. It messes up schedules, particularly overseas. The literally down to earth farmers don't like it either. Of course, they never did like daylight savings time. They already get up early enough. And it confuses their cows. It upsets the milking schedule. It can also really play havoc with Saturday night/Sunday morning's bar time. So if you're among those who are not pleased, blame this guy.
REP. ED MARKEY, (D) MASSACHUSETTS: It lowers the number of traffic fatalities when the hour of daylight is moved to the evening. It helps people who have trouble seeing because in the light they can move around in the evening much more freely. It helps, you know, with the issue of energy savings.
FRANKEN: Congressman Ed Markey bases his conclusions on those energy reductions on studies done in the 1970s. But many U.S. government officials are skeptical, pointing out that was then and this is now.
CRAIG STEVENS, DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY: Today we have energy efficiency. Today we have conservation. Today we have better technologies and better appliances. So I think we're all going to be curious to see, once this is all over in November, to see what the difference is.
FRANKEN: The law requires that in November, the Energy Department will begin to study whether the extended daylight savings time really did make much of a difference. But according to Congressman Markey, it's an idea whose time has come, an hour early, of course.
MARKEY: In addition, it also brings a smile to people's faces.
FRANKEN: Bob Franken, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Well, that might be helpful information. Let's get to somebody now who's real good at providing helpful information. Gerri Willis is joining us now. She's going to have some tips for us.
What do you got, Gerri?
GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've got from down payments to tax deductions. We're answering their questions about home and money next in the NEWSROOM.
SANCHEZ: We'll look forward to it.
COLLINS: Want to go ahead and get you now to Patrick Leahy. He is speaking to the press right now, alongside Arlen Specter, about this audit that was released today from the inspector general, talking about The Patriot Act and whether or not the FBI may have under reported its use of The Patriot Act to secretly obtain private information. A lot to talk about here with a series of national security letters that went out.
Some people are looking at them as sort of a comparison to a subpoena. And whether or not they should have been sent out as frequently as they have. Apparently, the report says that the FBI under reported the use of those letters by about 20 percent. Let's listen in now just for a moment.
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY, (D) CHAIRMAN, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: When he called (ph) that report back to us, he found the problem. He reported it to us. I'm convinced the problem will be fixed. I'm convinced that the director of the FBI and the attorney general will stop this abuse. But I do intend that the Judiciary Committee will do follow-up hearings on this to make sure that indeed it does stop.
QUESTION: Can you detail a little bit more for us what kinds of changes you understand will be implemented as a result of this?
LEAHY: Well, I think that we are -- I think that we're going to tighten -- Senator Specter and I are just starting to talk about this, but I think we're going to tighten the flexibility that's given. I argued at the time of the last Patriot Act that we were giving -- we were allowing too many lower-level people the ability to issue these national security letters.
And so there was a time that the national security letter was fairly rare and you had to go way up the chain of command to get the authorization for it. Now you see the huge number. We haven't suddenly had that many more national security threats.
In a way it similar, I believe, to the attitude that has arisen in this administration that the end does justify the means, as the same attitude that brought about the warrantless wiretapping, as you remember. For years they kept telling us that this wire tap program was just first reported in the press, not reported to the Congress, that they didn't need any authority to do that. That they had inherent authority. Everybody knew better.
And then when we changed control of the Congress this fall, they suddenly said, whoops, I guess we have to go and get a court order. Maybe sometimes if -- you know, every administration, Republican or Democratic, is helped (ph) if there is real oversight. This administration has had six years of a rubber stamp Congress. They now know it's going to be oversight. And it's time to do something that (ph) themselves and the administration. That's good.
QUESTION: Thank you.
QUESTION: What did the attorney general say, Senator Leahy, just to clarify. What did the attorney general tell you would be instituted at the Justice Department that gives you confidence the problem would be solved eventually?
LEAHY: It was more of my conversation with Director Mueller, that they were going to take steps. The attorney general said that he expects steps to be taken and we'll follow up on that. I said, thank you very much. And we will follow up on hearings. And we will go into this in great length. Thank you.
QUESTION: Sir, did Mr. Mueller not know about the . . .
COLLINS: You have been listening to Senator Patrick Leahy discussing this new inspector general report that came out today on The Patriot Act and whether or not the FBI have under reported its use of The Patriot Act to secretly obtain private information. And, in particular, discussing these national security letters that went out to people, have been compared to a subpoena of sorts.
We want to go ahead and get over to our justice correspondent, Kelli Arena, now with more.
Kelli, before Patrick Leahy spoke, Arlen Specter spoke. I'm not sure if either one of them has really had an opportunity to look at the report in its entirety. Have you?
KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, I have looked at the summary and part of the report. It just was made public at 10:00. But those senators, obviously, got a head start on us and were able to see the entire version, certainly (ph) the classified version of the report. And Arlen Specter -- both those men, by the way, members of the Judiciary Committee which has oversight over the Justice Department and the FBI. Specter said that, in his opinion, this is part of an ongoing process that authorities go far beyond what has been authorized.
And let's just backtrack a little bit so people understand what we're talking about. The inspector general was mandated by Congress, when The Patriot Act was re-authorized, to do a report that was due in a year, today, to tell them what was going on. Because national security letters, the thing that's causing all the huha this morning, are done very secretly, Heidi. Nobody's supposed to talk about them. If you get a national security letter with a request for information from an FBI agent, you're not allowed, under the law, to speak about that. So no one was quite sure what was going on with these powers, these new powers that the FBI had.
So we see this report today and we expected a scathing report. And I can tell you, just thumbing through the summary, it is pretty scathing. First of all, the inspector general says that, you know, the use of NSLs has exploded. You can expect that. We're fighting a war on terror. It's a different mandate for the FBI. The last reported year, we had 47,000 of these requests that went out in 2005. Of course, there's always a lag effect when the IG does a report because they're looking at, you know, final year's and things that they can really get a good handle on.
They say when they did report the use of NSLs, it was under reported. They didn't have a database that was accurately keeping count of all the national security letters that went out. That's a problem.
Said that when they were looking at improper or possibly illegal uses of these NSLs, it said it identified 26 possible intelligence violations involving these letters. These letters were issued without either proper authorization. They were making improper requests under the law. There were unauthorized collection of telephone or Internet or e-mail transactional records.
And of the 26 possible violation, 22 of them were the results of FBI error. So, you know, we knew the critics were going to jump on this. And here it is and it's bad.
COLLINS: Well, there's so much to talk about here. Let me make sure I understand you, Kelli. You're saying there were 47,000 requests for NSLs, or national security letters?
ARENA: Well, 47 NSLs that went out.
COLLINS: OK. So, and of those, there are 26 different instances where there were possible intelligence violations?
ARENA: Right. That the ID -- well, they under reported, first of all. And then there were 26 that were possible violations. And basically what the IG concluded was that there wasn't enough guidance put out by the higher-ups in the FBI into the field to explain how these things were supposed to be used. There was a lack of oversight that these were used properly. And that they weren't even putting in the records when they did use them.
COLLINS: And to be clear, back in 2005, and apparently they are saying now that a lot of these corrections have now been made?
ARENA: Well, FBI officials -- we're going to hear from them later -- but they apparently -- some FBI officials have told members of Congress -- and you heard that from both Specter and Leahy just a bit ago -- that they were told, look, you know, we have already -- we understand what the IG's concerns were. We understand that there were problems. We have already put some of the fixes in place. The IG said he made 10 recommendations so they have better record keeping, better oversight, better explanation for how these things are supposed to be used. The FBI says, look, we've done a lot of that. You know, we've had some time here.
The attorney general, we're told, very, very furious when he saw the IG report. You know, blasted the FBI. Said I don't ever want to see this again.
And, you know, this isn't the end of it, though. I mean just because they say we're fixing stuff, senators are promising oversight hearings. Get a load at what Senator Specter had to say just before.
COLLINS: Waiting to hear.
ARENA: Waiting to hear.
COLLINS: We have some sound.
ARENA: We do.
COLLINS: Here we go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER, (R) RANKING MEMBER, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: We may have to go farther than that and change the law to revise The Patriot Act to impose statutory requirements and perhaps take away some of the authority which we've already given to the FBI since they appear not to be able to know how to use it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: OK. Understood there. I wanted to make sure we got that in because he did speak before we were able to take that press conference there.
ARENA: Right.
COLLINS: And also, some other questions that come up in my mind, Kelli, when we think about this. You may not have the answers to them. But you just mentioned Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and the fact that he was furious. Was it obvious to you, in monitoring that and his reactions, whether or not he was furious about mistakes made on an act, The Patriot Act, that was controversial when it first came up, and many people talked about it, whether this was an invasion of privacy type things or if it was a matter of national security? Or is he actually mad that, yes, indeed, the law may have been broken? Because, obviously, this is at the heart of this issue.
ARENA: Right. Well, I think both. You know, you have to understand that even the IG pointed out, these are tools that have been described as invaluable in the war on terror. This allows agents to get what they need quickly and reliably. But when you have critics who are looking and watching and have been warning about an abuse of power. And then you have something in black and white to back that up, that's a big problem. And the administration pushed hard for the reauthorization of the Patriot Act when it came to the Hill and it got what it wanted. And now you're hearing, and of course now we have a Democratic-controlled Congress. Now, you're hearing, hey wait a minute, maybe we made a mistake. But what's even more troubling in this report, as you dig deeper into the woods, as I'm trying to do here, the FBI also used what are called eskigent (ph) letters. Those are actually in place of national security letters where they say this is an emergency. We need this information now.
We'll follow this up later with a national security letter or an official subpoena which is issued by a judge. And they didn't do that. In some cases, the IG found out that, A, they weren't even emergencies. And then B, they didn't follow up with the paperwork that they promised they would follow up with. Now when you're talking about as many NSLs that go out, which you know at last count was over 47,000, the number of these instances that come up, you know, is not big, but still the fact that they come up at all, you know, is an issue. And the privacy issue has been a hot, hotly debated issue here on Capitol Hill. It goes across party lines. It hits both Republicans and Democrats. You know, we have to wait and see what Director Mueller has to say.
COLLINS: Yeah, exactly. That's what I just wanted to remind the viewers. Justice Correspondent Kelli Arena thanks so much for that on this new inspector general's report that has come out. And we want to make sure you remember, 11:30, about an hour from now, we will be hearing from FBI Director Robert Mueller, we want to make sure that we bring that to you and find out more about the situation with this report.
SANCHEZ: Now, it's half past the hour, let's try and bring you up to date here on what's going on. First of all, the story that we've been following out of South Florida. We've gotten new details now from police. In fact, look at this brand-new video. There's the car that they were looking for, there's the police officials as they came upon the car. They were expecting that they would find a suspect in it. They're going to probably see if they can get around it. Look at the front, look at the back. The bad news is, the information that we're getting from police is, they weren't able to find him. This is somebody who walked into a business in Pompano Beach and shot somebody who police say he seemed to have a relationship with. There they go, they're opening the trunk now. This is new video that's been coming into us now. Police had told us a little while ago, in fact while they were having a conversation with Heidi, that they had cornered the suspect. We thought when they said cornered that they meant him. Apparently what they were talking about was just the car, this Honda that he seemed to drive away in. Let's try and bring you up to date. It was about an hour and a half ago when this happened, it was in a business there in Pompano Beach. The man walks into a building, shoots somebody he apparently had a relationship with. She seems to be in grave condition at this time. They take her away. He didn't shoot anybody else. Seems to have been either an employee or a former employee of this particular business. Now we're showing you some of the scenes there of some of the workers, obviously in shock. Imagine having somebody walk into your place of business, take out a gun and just shoot somebody. She's been taken to the hospital. Don't know her exact condition at this point. It now appears police are still looking for the suspect. We had a description of the vehicle, we don't have a description of him. Obviously, if we get it we'll be sharing it with you and any new information that comes in on this case. Heidi?
COLLINS: And also in Broward County, new developments this morning surrounding the Anna Nicole Smith death investigation. CNN has learned the Broward County medical examiner wants to examine Smith's computer. And it could be up to two more weeks until he actually issues an official cause of death. Investigators continue to believe no foul play was involved in Smith's death, but it is thought that computer files could change the circumstances surrounding her death.
SANCHEZ: Well that terrifying bus crash that we've been telling you about in Atlanta, it's taken another tragic turn. This story just ahead. Also retracing that fatal journey. How it happened, you'll see it right here in the NEWSROOM, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We welcome you back to the CNN NEWSROOM, I'm Rick Sanchez. Tax deductions, tax refunds, home buying, CNN's personal finance editor is tackling some of these topics today. Gerri Willis is her name. Answering questions is her game. Today, she's in Hartsdale, New York. I love to make you laugh.
GERRI WILLIS: Good job.
SANCHEZ: We have some e-mails, are you ready to go. This one is from Jeff, he says, "My daughter's 26 and considering buying a house. Why isn't it advisable Gerri for her to buy a house with no down payment?"
WILLIS: Well, it's always bad not to have any skin in the game when you're buying a house. You want to put down 20 percent, if you can. The downsides are many. In fact, you'll pay a higher price for your loan if you don't put down 20 percent, you'll have a higher interest rate. And let's face it, if there's a problem, there's no equity to tap. So if the roof falls in, your options are going to be few. And finally, what happens if prices go down in your neighborhood? Well, you could end up owing more on that house than it's worth.
SANCHEZ: Yeah.
WILLIS: And that could be a real problem if you had to sell.
SANCHEZ: That's called being upside down.
WILLIS: Right, exactly.
SANCHEZ: I like the expression, you've got to have some skin in the game. I've never heard it put that way.
WILLIS: Yeah.
SANCHEZ: Makes sense. Here's another one, it's from Jennifer in California, says, "We are wondering what to do with our $7,000 tax return. We have a fair amount of debt and limited money in our emergency fund." What do they do?
WILLIS: Wow, $7,000 tax return? That's a big tax return. The average right now is about $2600. First job, pay down some of that high rate credit card debt that you have. That's an important thing to do. Secondly, you want to make sure that you're not giving the government free use of your money for the entire year. Look, you're overpaying your taxes during the year if you're getting a $7,000 refund. Go refigure your withholding. You can do that at the IRS' website at irs.gov.
SANCHEZ: We got one now from Leopoldo, "Last year we replaced our roof for $9,406." Well he fixed his roof, he wants to know if he can write that off. "Is that tax deductible?"
WILLIS: While I admire the effort to write off absolutely everything. You know, you can't write off just fixing your roof, that's not going to work.
SANCHEZ: But if it was a rental property though, right, he could?
WILLIS: That would be a totally different story, exactly. But since this is his primary home, just upgrading something isn't necessarily a tax deduction. But the good news here is he is increasing the value of his home. So ultimately, when he sells that house, it's going to be worth more, he'll be able to charge more. What's more, he'll pay less in taxes when he does sell that house. You got to keep track of all the improvements you make to your house over time, so that when you sell it, you take that into account as well. But sorry, no big fat tax deduction this year for you.
SANCHEZ: Yeah, it's like I bought a new stereo, can I write it off? No.
WILLIS: Rick, we just want to remind your viewers, send us your e-mails to toptips@cnn.com. If you have a money question we'd love to hear from you.
SANCHEZ: And tomorrow you're on, right? WILLIS: Saturday morning, join us for "OPEN HOUSE," 9:30 a.m. eastern. We've got a great show. We're talking about mortgages, sub prime mortgages, the problems in those markets and how to go green in your house.
SANCHEZ: There you go. Gerri Willis, thanks again.
Well, that terrifying bus crash in Atlanta that we've been telling you about has taken another tragic turn and that story is coming just ahead. Also, we are going to be able to retrace that fatal journey that so many people have been talking about. How could something like that happen? You'll see it right here from the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Another tragic turn this morning in that horrifying bus crash in Atlanta. A fifth Bluffton University baseball player died today in an Atlanta hospital. Zach Arend had been in critical condition since the crash one week ago. Four other players, the bus driver and his wife were killed when their bus careened off an overpass to the interstate below. You've seen the terrifying aftermath and now, we're hearing the just released 911 tapes. One of the passengers making a frantic plea for help just moments after the bus plunged off the bridge.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
OPERATOR: Atlanta, 911 emergency.
CALLER: Yeah, we've just been in a bus accident... uh... I don't know where we're at.
OPERATOR: I need a location.
CALLER: Uh, where are we at, sir?
BACKGROUND: You're on 75 South.
CALLER: 75 South.
BACKGROUND: I've got somebody coming.
CALLER: Ok, we've got somebody coming. Ok... a lot of people, please hurry.
OPERATOR: Ok, what all is going on, Sir? Talk to me.
CALLER: Ok...
OPERATOR: What's going on?
CALLER: A lot of people laying down on the ground in different places.
OPERATOR: About how many? Give me an estimate so we'll know how many ambulances. How many?
CALLER: Uh... we're talking 50... not 50.... about, at least 33... 33 people on this bus.
OPERATOR: Ok, y'all on the expressway or are you on the street?
CALLER: I think we fell off the expressway, we hit a road and fell off the actual bridge.
OPERATOR: Uh huh.
CALLER: Um... yeah.
OPERATOR: The bus fell over the bridge?
CALLER: Yeah... I...
OPERATOR: Ok... now we've got help coming out there now. They'll be there shortly. Ok?
CALLER: I got to get out of here.
OPERATOR: Alright.
CALLER: Alright. Bye-bye.
(END OF AUDIO CLIP)
COLLINS: One of the survivors saying now and could this tragedy have been avoided. CNN's Drew Griffin takes a revealing look at the controversy for the CNN special investigations unit, it airs this weekend. Here now a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is not until you actually approach this split in the road that you're directed to exit left or stay straight on southbound 75. For reasons we will never know, Jerry Niemeyer steered his bus left, onto this exit ramp. He apparently didn't realize it.
(On camera): It's at this moment, Kyle King, seated four rows behind the driver in this seat is listening to music half asleep and hears the only warning.
KYLE KING, BUS CRASH SURVIVOR: And I woke up to the bus -- the driver's wife screaming.
GRIFFIN: Jean Niemeyer was sitting in the front with her husband.
KING: She said something like this isn't the exit or the on- ramp or something. And then I remember hearing the bus driver saying something then I actually heard the tires squeal of him trying to get it back on control.
GRIFFIN: Despite being on a clearly marked exit ramp, stop signs ahead and a stop ahead warning painted on the pavement. Atlanta Police say bus driver Jerry Niemeyer hit the intersection without breaking, his bus blew through the stop sign, across four lanes of traffic and headed straight for a retaining wall.
MAJ. C.W. MOSS, ATLANTA POLICE DEPARTMENT: We don't have any evidence on the roadway suggesting that the bus had attempted to stop. There were no skid marks laid down that we were able to determine. As to the reason for that, that remains under investigation. We hope we'll ultimately get an answer for that.
GRIFFIN: This skid mark of wheels turning right is the only evidence of Niemeyer's futile attempt to avoid disaster.
A.J. RAMTHUN, BUS CRASH SURVIVOR: I woke up as soon as the bus hit the overpass's wall. That's when I looked up and the bus landed on the left side, which is the side I was sitting on. I just looked out and saw the road coming up after me. That's all.
(END OF VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Drew Griffin joining us now to talk more about this special piece that will be airing this weekend here on CNN. You know, you hear that 911 call and you see the video, it's incredibly upsetting. But I do think there are a lot of questions about how this could have happened. You and I were talking in the break, I drive past this every single day. A lot of us here at CNN do. You can see how something like this could happen. Is the bus driver, though, being blamed from what you investigated in this?
GRIFFIN: Well, nobody is blaming this bus driver just yet, Jerry Niemeyer by all accounts is a fantastic guy. You'll hear his story, you'll hear -- the kids themselves, they knew him. This guy drove to Florida before. They're saying, it was a confusing interchange. You know, Heidi, there's a lot of road signs coming up, they come up very quickly in Atlanta. There's two major interstates joining together. But after driving it, after driving it in the exact same type of bus, it really begs the question of whether or not this driver was paying attention. Especially after he leaves the highway, mistakenly perhaps, after he leaves the highway, you are going up, the bus' natural inclination is to slow down.
COLLINS: What about other accidents at this very same spot? Is this a trouble spot according to department of transportation or police?
GRIFFIN: It is a trouble spot, but not a top 10 list. It's not a bad interchange. This is a bridge that goes over a freeway. There are six on and off-ramps onto this. So we have 82 accidents over the past nine years or so, that's not a lot. A couple of drivers have had accidents where they mistake this exit on the HOV for the actual HOV lane and that has led to accidents. But it's not considered a very bad interchange.
COLLINS: Are they considering doing any changes or reconstructing that portion. Because the thing that always strikes me when I drive past it is how short it is. I mean yes, it's not real clear that it veers off because it doesn't make a y, but that portion is so very short before you come to the bridge. And I don't drive a bus.
GRIFFIN: At this moment, no change in that interchange, no closing of the ramp, no physical reconfiguration, other than the Georgia DOT is telling us they may improve the signage, improve the marking, but they don't see anything right now wrong with that interchange.
COLLINS: What about the parents of the kids? Is there anything to be coming later about who they're blaming? Whether it's the transportation company, the bus driver, who is no longer with us.
GRIFFIN: I think it's just too early for that. This is a very tight-knit group of folks, very religious. They don't want to blame anybody. But I'm sure, Heidi, as we progress past this mourning stage, there's going to be questions answered, and I'm sure they'll be answered in court.
COLLINS: And so many questions on parents' minds. I mean you're a parent. I'm a parent. A lot of people out there with kids wondering if it's ok to send their kids on these field trips, on these away games, all of that.
GRIFFIN: Yeah, we're going to look at that during this hour. We've looked at the regulations not only for these kind of exits, but also the buses themselves. There is some history here that not everything that could have been done on this bus has been done. And we take it up to the federal level asking why. Some of the answers are a bit startling. But, again, Heidi, bus transportation in this country is very safe statistically. It's safer than driving your car.
COLLINS: Ok, very, very interesting. We appreciate you doing it and want to remind everybody, once again, you can catch Drew's gripping special investigation in its entirety this weekend, it's called "Fatal Journey, The Atlanta Bus Crash," is airs Saturday and Sunday night at 8:00 eastern. And Drew we'll be watching.
SANCHEZ: Guys, let's do this, let's take you from a bus crash to a plane crash, small plane in this case. As you can see the pictures are just now coming in. This is in Marshfield, Massachusetts. Pictures courtesy of WCVB. The information we're getting, there's not a lot of it at this point. Is that it's a very small plane. Too little of a plane left to even be able to make any determination exactly what kind of plane it was, whether a Piper or Cessna. But we are told it was small and that there was only one person on board, most likely the pilot, obviously enough. And that officials are on the scene now trying to kind of put the pieces together to see if they can figure out more. There's a preliminary investigation that's taking place right now. The information we have again, Marshfield, Massachusetts, plane crash. As we get more information, we're going to bring it to you. Let's do this. Let's take a break and we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We welcome you back to CNN NEWSROOM, I'm Rick Sanchez. There could be a lot of nervous men around the nation's capital this morning. Why? Well, there's a woman indicted for running a prostitution ring and she's threatening to sell her phone records. What do they call that -- dishing the dirt? She wants to do that apparently to pay for legal bills. That's just for starters. But there's all kinds of issues or side issues to this story. Let's go to Brianna Keilar, she's joining us now live from our nation's capital. Brianna, what do we know that happened in court today?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Rick in the past hour, Deborah Jean Palfrey, the woman accused of running that prostitution ring here in the DC area, pled guilty to five charges including racket tearing and money laundering. The judge agreed with the government with the prosecution's argument that she should be electronically monitored, so something for instance like an ankle bracelet, an electronic ankle bracelet, will monitor her as she goes back to her home in northern California. She also had to turn over her passport, and she was fingerprinted here today. We do understand Rick that's she's going to be speaking at her public defender's office here in about 35 minutes. She has a civil defender and she also has a criminal defender. Now the civil lawyer says that what she was doing was not illegal. He says that she headed up a high-end adult fantasy firm, not a prostitution ring as the government alleges. And as you said, curious minds are wondering who were her customers. Deborah Jean Palfrey, because the government has seized her assets and she is allegedly broke, she would like to sell some contact information for money. Contact information that her attorney says 10,000 plus customers, addresses and phone numbers. Rick?
SANCHEZ: Wow! There's all this talk, as I'm sure you've heard. I was up there in Washington yesterday looking into this story as well and I heard that they were trying to issue some kind of gag order to stop her from saying anything. I can understand how they can stop discovery because that's the information amassed by the attorneys. But they can't stop her if she wants to from holding a news conference in the next five minutes and saying whatever she wants to, right?
KEILAR: Well, it certainly seems to be the case. We asked federal prosecutors about that, and they said, no comment. It seemed to be that if she wanted to go ahead and sell that information this moment that she could very well do that. And the judge is considering this gag order, but that hasn't gone forward. But what's interesting Rick is even if -- this is what the government contends, even if she did go ahead and sell that information, they say that that information is connected to this racketeering charge, a racketeering enterprise, and if she were to get money from selling that information, it would be eligible to be taken away by the government.
SANCHEZ: Oh, I got it. I understand the money part, but I don't understand them being able to stop her from talking altogether. That makes sense, thank you so much for that report. Heidi over to you.
COLLINS: At home with Minister Louis Farrakhan, CNN's Don Lemon talks with the former Nation of Islam leader about his retirement, his future in politics. A sneak peek in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com
