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Nancy Grace

Possible New Evidence Delays Anna Nicole Cause of Death

Aired March 09, 2007 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: While Seminole, Florida, police pore over timelines, computer records, cell calls, possible illegal prescriptions and allegedly massive drug intakes, a new theory emerges tonight as to the sudden and unexpected death of 39-year-old covergirl Anna Nicole Smith. The chief medical examiner says a new piece of mystery evidence may very well change his conclusion as to cause of death. It must be obtained and evaluated, as police take a second look at the days and hours before the death. In the balance, not only possible criminal charges but a $475 million estate, a police investigation, DNA paternity dispute, the coroner`s inquest, and the multi-million-dollar will all coming to a head.
And tonight, a college student chasing the all-American dream, his life cut short in a hail of bullets. Tonight, we want justice!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was Sunday morning, the 6th of February, 2005, Super Bowl Sunday, which is a day we always celebrated as a family because we love football. About 7:30 in the morning, there was a knock on the door and it was the police. And they stated that they had come to give us some information on Nick. And we figured, Oh, you know, college kids, something happened, they got into a little mischief or whatever. But looking at the face of the police officer that came to give us the information, I didn`t think that was the case, and that`s when he let us know that Nicholas had been killed in a drive-by shooting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. First, new evidence in the death of covergirl Anna Nicole Smith.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Howard K. Stern`s whereabouts are a little not quite clear right before her death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone right now is thinking foul play. And you know, the results of the autopsy keep getting pushed back. We were expecting them this week, and now it`s another couple of weeks.

DR. JOSHUA PERPER, BROWARD COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: I became aware of this additional evidence which I didn`t review, and I`m going to review it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This report really threw a wrench into the whole timeline because with the nurse saying this, it`s possible maybe Anna Nicole Smith had been dead for hours, definitely before 1:30 PM.

PERPER: There is evidence that the body was not only warm but that the people who gave resuscitation believed there was a chance to resuscitate her. Most likely, she died a short time before she was found dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, with this new report, it`s really thrown everyone into a tailspin, and everything we initially thought in terms of when she really died at 1:30, it`s -- you know, it`s out the window.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is one other thing we`ve got to remember. Dr. Kapoor -- this is the doctor who was allegedly sending big, giant, probably flasks of methadone and other drugs under assumed names to Anna Nicole Smith. And if he was not giving her proper checkups, that`s potentially criminal behavior. And he`s already being investigated by the medical board. Somebody`s going to face a criminal indictment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I saw her, her lips didn`t look right. They looked kind of pale and blue. So I slapped her on the face, tried to wake her up. So I checked for a pulse and I thought I felt a pulse, but it probably just was my imagination.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: The medical examiner at first said he had established a cause of death, but now says there`s a piece of evidence that must be obtained and evaluated before he can give a cause of death.

Let`s go straight out to Jason Kennedy with E! What`s the latest?

JASON KENNEDY, E! ENTERTAINMENT TELEVISION: I tell you what, Nancy -- first off, thank you for having me on the show. But Dr. Perper -- he was on your show yesterday -- he`s made it clear that this new piece of evidence is going to possibly change his findings into what caused the death of Anna Nicole. We do know, on a related story, that he wants to get a hold of Anna Nicole Smith`s computer. Ford Shelly -- he is the son-in- law of G. Ben Thompson, the man who owns that Bahamian home where Anna was staying with Howard K. Stern -- he submitted Anna`s computer to the police department. So Dr. Perper is waiting for that computer. Who knows what`s on it? And they are waiting.

GRACE: Out to "Access Hollywood" reporter Tony Potts. Tony, it`s very unusual, actually, for a medical examiner to believe they`ve got a cause of death and then not release it due to a pending police investigation. What are your thoughts?

TONY POTTS, "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD": Well, I would also add that they`ve had the computer since the mid of -- mid-February. The Seminole police has had that. And so they know what`s on there. They`re probably scouring it, as well. And they probably called Dr. Perper. At any point, they can have it go back to South Carolina. But right now, it`s in the possession of the Seminole police force, which I think is interesting, to see where that will go from there, because like you said, Nancy, it is interesting to see a medical examiner have the cause of death and then hold off. Well, why would you hold off? If you know what it is, get it out there and get it done. But obviously, we`re going to wait another week or maybe two weeks on that one, Nancy.

GRACE: To medical examiner and toxicologist Dr. William Morrone. Dr. Morrone, thank you for being with us.

DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, M.C., MEDICAL EXAMINER/TOXICOLOGIST: Thank you.

GRACE: The only time I have ever experienced this in felony prosecutions is in an arson case. And in that case, obviously, the victim died of smoke inhalation, but the cause of the fire -- the medical examiner had to wait on that. You`ve got cause of death and manner of death, two very distinct -- two very distinct findings.

MORRONE: If the medications are related to the cause of death, Dr. Perper`s search and request on the computer may be to see where did the medications come from, if that`s related to communications, ordering, e- mail supplies or anything like that. But what`s also important is that Dr. Perper is trying to look at a snapshot. Who is this victim, and was she impaired? If she was communicating on a computer, was she impaired? Was this a picture of who she was right before she died?

GRACE: I want to go out to Jane Velez-Mitchell, investigative reporter, and talk about the timeline. That`s where you start with an investigation, and when you hit a brick wall, you start all over again. What do we know, Jane?

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, Nancy, what I think is absolutely fascinating is that the Seminole police have been able to pore over for a few weeks now Anna Nicole`s diary and computer hard drives. I believe that there was quite possibly a treasure trove of secrets in those documents. I mean, face it, where else do you reveal your most private thoughts...

GRACE: Timeline. Timeline.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... other than a diary?

GRACE: Timeline.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So they review that, right? They get some clues. They pursue something. They give some new evidence to the medical examiner. They get the cause of death, which they have kept confidential, from the medical examiner. And now tonight, they are saying they want additional information, and they may seek a court order to get it.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERPER: I have a discussion with the police and I mention to them what are our findings, under confidence. And then I found out -- as I said, I became aware, there`s additional evidence which I didn`t review, and I`m going to review it. But whether that -- I did not receive any kind of information that there`s an active police investigation directed against anyone specifically. I didn`t receive that.

-- new piece of evidence which has to be obtained and evaluated, and it might change some of my conclusions. And therefore, I decided to wait another week or two until this evidence is going to be available and is going to be evaluated and eventually submitted to us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to the lines. Ann in South Carolina. Hi, Ann.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I was just wondering, in regards to the insurance, was there insurance on Daniel, and who would be the beneficiary to that?

GRACE: Well, joining us tonight, Ann in South Carolina, is Ron Rale. This is Anna Nicole Smith`s attorney, and also a very close friend of Howard K. Stern. Mr. Rale, thank you for being with us.

RON RALE, ANNA NICOLE SMITH`S ATTORNEY: Thanks for having me, Nancy.

GRACE: Ron, what can you tell me about any insurance policies on the life of Daniel, and who is the beneficiary?

RALE: Actually, I haven`t been asked that question. I don`t even know if there are any policies on Daniel`s life. I certainly can answer in regards to Anna that at least with regard to Howard, there are no policies whatsoever that Howard is the beneficiary of under Anna`s life.

GRACE: Are there insurance policies on her life with another beneficiary?

RALE: Not that I know of. And actually, I guess I`d be one to find that out soon enough as a successor executor of her estate. But I`m not aware of any policies whatsoever on Anna`s life right now.

GRACE: Ron, what do you -- you`re her lawyer. What do you truly believe is her wish regarding burial?

RALE: The way it occurred, you know, for her to be laid to rest next to Daniel in the Bahamas. That was truly her wish, I promise you. I`m glad that that`s the way that the case turned out because that`s what Anna wanted. She was grieving for quite a while after Daniel died, and we spoke about that circumstance and how much she missed Daniel and wanted to be there. So we`re glad that it turned out that way.

GRACE: Ron, what are they looking for in her computer?

RALE: I don`t know. I just heard about it on your show right now. It`s news to me. And I`d point out that, you know, I got hyped up just listening to all this introduction and people talking. But really, I don`t think we have any hard reports at all where this is coming from. And just listening to Dr. Perper, we don`t even know if there`s a criminal investigation.

GRACE: We do know that there is a police investigation. Let me go out to Mike Brooks, former D.C. cop and former fed with the FBI. Clearly, there is some sort of police investigation going on, Mike.

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Absolutely, Nancy. Right now, it`s just a death investigation. There`s no homicide investigation because we don`t know, you know, cause and manner and mechanism of death. But I can tell you something came up recently, Nancy, that made the Seminole police travel down to Nassau to meet with the detectives and investigators there. And next week, the Nassau police, along with the Nassau police commissioner, are going to be going to Seminole to again compare notes on this.

So something had to have come up just recently that made them develop these leads to do all this traveling. So that`s why I think, one of the reasons, that Dr. Perper is holding this off until all the investigation is done, and he wants to make sure that all the I`s are dotted and all the T`s are crossed.

GRACE: Is it true the Seminole police also went to South Carolina to obtain the computer?

BROOKS: Yes, that`s what I`ve heard also. Initially, it was all (INAUDIBLE) went up to Ocala and then down to South Carolina, then to Seminole. But Seminole, as far as I know right now, Nancy -- Seminole is in possession of all of the alleged stolen property from the house that G. Ben Thompson claims that he owns.

GRACE: And what can you tell me about the Seminole police force? Do you believe that they regularly deal with this type of investigation?

BROOKS: Oh, that`s a very competent police department. As you know, the Broward County sheriff`s office was handling the crime scene aspect of this. But from everything I`ve talked to -- everyone I`ve talked to, they sound like they`re a very competent police force. And you know, you`ve got Dr. Perper working with them, so I know that he`s going to make sure that everything is done in the proper way.

GRACE: Back to Anna Nicole Smith`s attorney and friend of Howard K. Stern, attorney Ron Rale, joining us tonight. Ron, why was Anna taking methadone? What was her ailment?

RALE: You know, I can`t answer that question. I`m not really privy to that. Sorry. I just -- I wasn`t in the loop on that.

GRACE: To Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner, who has expertise also in toxicology. What would that do to a baby?

MORRONE: Methadone is prescribed for severe chronic pain. And in pregnant women, it`s been studied for about 55 years, according to the heroin addicts that have presented for treatment. You may have a baby who has less than normal body weight, and that baby will have to be charted, according to the pediatrician and family practice visits, to see that body weight and length come up to what you would expect in a normal baby. Those are the main concerns, developmental milestones in that baby`s life.

GRACE: To Tony Potts with "Access Hollywood." Tony, what do we know about how Dannielynn is developing? Has she been to a doctor? What do we know?

POTTS: Well, I know that Larry Birkhead told me that when he saw her, she looked well. She looked fantastic. She woke up. She smiled at him. She raised her hands at him. He was nervous that she would cry, and what have you, and she never did.

One of the things you have to consider, Nancy, though, is that -- is some of those developmental disabilities that may or may not happen from drugs don`t happen right away. They could be, you know, 18 months, two years down the road, when the kid starts to have motor skills, speaking skills, and what have you, in that respect.

Real quick, back to the timeline. I went to the marina where Howard was the day that he arrived for that boat. He was there slightly before 1:00 o`clock. Todd Smith (ph), who is the guy who was going to check out the boat with him, arrived about three minutes afterwards, and they talked for about five to ten minutes, which at that time, Todd Smith tells me that Howard received a phone call, which if you push it -- just pad it, say 1:15 -- at that time, Howard -- I said, What happened? Howard got in that town car.

So I got in a town car. I did the drive from the marina to the Hard Rock hotel there. It`s about a little over five miles, but it takes about 20 minutes. So that would arrive from 1:15 to 1:35.

My question to Ron Rale or anybody else who can answer this -- and I`ve been on this the whole time because the timeline is very critical here -- what happened in the 23 minutes between 1:15 and 1:38, when the first 911 call came in? Who was Howard calling? Who called Howard at 1:15? Who did Howard call in the car?

I mean, you`d imagine, if it`s your loved one, you would be calling somebody at some point. I would tend to think down the road from sources that I know that those phone records of Mr. Todd Smith, who was there with Howard, and also Howard K. Stern -- those phone records will be subpoenaed and they`ll be looked at to see who called whom at the time. And that may help this timeline that you see up on the screen now.

Moe gets a call at 1:30. And then at 1:38, it says that he calls Mr. Stern. I would like to understand what happened to those 23 minutes between 1:15 and 1:38. Even if you give an extra five minutes, say it`s 1:20, what happens in the 18 minutes? What happened -- and why did the boat -- why did the boat they were purchasing have to leave Florida that night, or Friday morning? Because it was seen Friday evening in the Bahamas. I would like to know.

GRACE: Ron, do you have answers on any of that?

RALE: I really don`t because I`m not part of that -- I`m really not - - I wasn`t privy to that information. But I can just tell you, I mean, I`m hearing all this, and my response is going to be different than what you want to talk about. But I think it`s all sensationalism and we`re all -- to the extent that you`re questioning, you know, whether Howard had some kind of involvement -- that`s what I`m hearing -- it`s just a bunch of nonsense. I promise you, when we look back at this, you`re going to say that this was all sensationalism. And truly, it`s going to be a non-issue.

GRACE: I hope you`re right. Why has Howard Stern refused thus far to allow the DNA test on the baby to establish once and for all paternity?

RALE: I can answer those questions.

GRACE: OK.

RALE: Actually, I`m even toning that down tonight because, you know, we are trying -- you know, Howard has been reaching out, and we`re hopeful that this thing can be settled without lawyers involved. You`ve got to remember, this thing started up in Los Angeles back in October of `06, and Howard wasn`t a party. Howard`s never been a party to the LA case. When Anna passed away and we were suddenly in Florida, they filed a proceeding there, trying to get DNA from Dannielynn. And I think that`s the first time that somebody tried to name Howard. I`m still not even sure about that right now because we`ve got three jurisdictions going on.

But in the Bahamas now, they`re seeking the DNA from Howard. But Howard`s never been an issue. For Larry Birkhead to determine paternity, we need his DNA and Dannielynn`s DNA. It`s never been an issue of Howard. So it hasn`t been Howard refusing, they never asked. So...

GRACE: OK, my question is, Howard Stern has the baby. Has the baby been tested? Has she had an oral swab done?

RALE: My understanding is, you know, we don`t have any DNA testing that has gone on. The only DNA...

GRACE: So no. OK.

RALE: Right.

GRACE: Here`s the question, the original question. Why won`t Howard Stern allow the test on the baby?

RALE: You know, that -- I can answer that again. And that goes back to the LA case. Remember, we were set to do -- it wasn`t Howard allowing it, Anna Nicole was going to have...

GRACE: He has the baby now.

RALE: We`re talking about -- you`re just talking recent history. I`m going back all the way to October. We were set to do the DNA test through the LA Court, and Anna was going to provide that on January 23. And as you know, who stopped it? The guy sitting right here. Anna was perfectly willing to do it. And I went to court and got a stay of that because we had some very serious procedural problems.

So if you want me to elaborate on that, I will. But it would have happened on back on January 23. After that, unfortunately, Anna Nicole passed away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. Perper said that he got cooperation from everyone in all jurisdictions. Dr. Kapoor refused to have anything to do with him, wouldn`t answer his questions, wouldn`t return his calls. This is the doctor who was allegedly sending big giant, probably flasks of methadone and other drugs under assumed names to Anna Nicole Smith. And if he was not giving her proper checkups, and if he is giving them with the wrong names, that`s potentially criminal behavior.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: All of this swirling as a formal inquest comes up in the Bahamas regarding the death of 20-year-old Daniel, Anna Nicole`s young son.

Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us, prosecutor Eleanor Dixon, attorney Kevin Mincey and Randy Zelin. First to you, Randy. At this inquest regarding Daniel`s death, will Howard K. Stern be forced to testify? Do you have to testify at an inquest?

RANDY ZELIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, you don`t necessarily have to testify at an inquest unless you`re subpoenaed. And if you`re subpoenaed, you can invoke your 5th Amendment privilege against self-incrimination. So the answer is no.

GRACE: What about it, Eleanor?

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, I think he`s probably right, but I find that awfully interesting that Howard Stern`s not going to testify at this inquest. Seems like he`d be the first one to jump up and down and be wanting to testify.

GRACE: Well, Kevin, I don`t think it`s been established he will or he won`t, or that he would refuse. But with all of the police investigation going on at this juncture, what would you advise him to do, Kevin?

KEVIN MINCEY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I would advise him to be silent. If there`s anything possible that they could use against him, it doesn`t make any sense for him to say anything now. He needs to wait until there`s an appropriate time, if there`s ever an appropriate time, for him to give a statement at all.

GRACE: And Ron Rale is joining us. This is Anna Nicole Smith`s attorney and a friend of Howard Stern`s. Is he set to appear at the inquest there in the Bahamas?

RALE: I`m not sure they`ve established all the protocol for that yet. But you know, if it were up to Howard, I`m sure he`d like to, you know, get all of us in a room and explain everything that went on. Whether lawyers and everybody else, if he ends up being summoned there, or allow him to talk, I don`t know. But you know, Howard`s got nothing to hide. It`s really -- I think, when we hear the whole story, we`ll be -- everybody will be at ease.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERPER: I think that you`ll find out when we have our report, that our investigation was extremely extensive and in-depth. And it`s well documented. We`ve done a large number of tests. So it`s going to be very difficult for any kind of judicial authority to order such exhumation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That is chief medical examiner, Dr. Joshua Perper, who says mystery evidence may very well change his conclusion as to the cause of death of 39-year-old covergirl Anna Nicole Smith.

Out to Carol in Ohio. Hi, Carol.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, dear.

GRACE: What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would like to know, since there were bottles of medicine in the room with Howard K. Stern`s name on it, why would they not also request his computer to check?

GRACE: What about it, Tony Potts? What do we know about that?

POTTS: Well (INAUDIBLE) I can tell you is that we found out through the Bahamian authorities that methadone is actually illegal, prescribed or otherwise, and that could open up a whole number of things that would have them question why methadone was even on the island itself. They told us that today in our questioning.

I`d ask Ron Rale a question, if I could, about January 23. A, did he tell not her not to go through with it on the 23rd? And B, I know for a fact that Anna Nicole Smith texted Larry Birkhead and said, There`s no way in hell that I`m going to go through with this test. Is that not true, Ron?

GRACE: Ron, true or not?

RALE: Yes, and I`m answering it. Look at the date of that text, and that`s the same time that I told her she`s not going through with the test. Yes, I am the one who stopped it. Absolutely.

GRACE: Why?

RALE: It might take a few minutes to explain, but...

GRACE: Go ahead.

RALE: OK. Number one, they failed to register the order, the California order in the Bahamas. Same thing like when they went to Florida, when they tried to get the DNA for Dannielynn in Florida. They tried to register the California order, which they did. They just weren`t allowed to get the DNA. They didn`t do that in the Bahamas. You know, just because, like, for example, you get a judgment against somebody in Arizona from California, can you go walk in there and take their safe deposit box? No, you`ve got to go through the proper route.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seminole police are interviewing Big Moe, who was Anna Nicole`s bodyguard, and, as you said, he is telling police that Anna Nicole was in a cloud of drugs, actually for months. Plus, more interestingly enough, he was saying Howard K. Stern was acting very peculiar the day that Anna Nicole Smith died, even the days leading up to her death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where were you when you found out that either she had collapsed or that she had passed?

LARRY BIRKHEAD, CLAIMS TO BE FATHER OF DANNIELYNN: I was sitting in the dentist`s chair with half of my mouth numb. And at the dentist, they have televisions in front of you. And the headline said, "Anna Nicole collapses." It started to look like it was serious, because I saw ambulances. And I saw everything. And my phone was in my pocket on vibrate, and it was just going crazy. And I knew something was going wrong.

BIG MOE, FORMER BODYGUARD: I called my wife from time to time and asked her how things was going. And she said everything`s going great, she`s sleeping. And so I hung up.

About five minutes later, she calls me back frantic and said, "Oh, come back, quick. Stop whatever you`re doing, something`s wrong with Anna. Anna`s not breathing." I got in about five, ten minutes after she called me and saw her on the bed.

I pushed the covers off the bed, and I looked at her, and Anna has very voluptuous, beautiful lips, full lips. And when I saw her, her lips didn`t look right. They looked kind of pale and blue. So I slapped her on the face and tried to wake her up. When she didn`t wake up, I picked her up off the bed and placed her on the floor so I could have kind of a hard surface, just in case I had to do CPR. So I checked for her pulse, and I thought I felt a pulse. But it probably just was my imagination.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A big question: How long had Anna Nicole Smith been dead? Was she dead at the time her nurse noticed?

Out to you, Tony Potts with "Access Hollywood," it`s my understanding the nurse that Howard K. Stern said, "Look, can you look after Anna? I`ve got to go check on this boat." The nurse goes into the bedroom. Anna is asleep. So the nurse is in there for quite a while on the computer. And then, suddenly, it dawns on her to check, and she realizes that Anna Nicole Smith is unresponsive. If by the time the bodyguard gets there, she`s already turning blue, I mean, what do we know about this time line?

TONY POTTS, "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD": Well, that`s one of the things that`s interesting. Although, you know, I have talked to people who say that, from time to time, Anna would sleep a lot, for long periods of time. So it wasn`t -- not to defend them -- but it wasn`t all that uncommon for her to be sitting there, sleeping and what have you. It happened quite often.

You would think, though, that somebody who is charged with looking after her well-being physically and being, you know, a nurse, would check on her quite often, especially knowing that, a, she wasn`t feeling well, and that drugs were involved.

GRACE: OK, that`s not where I`m going, Tony. That`s not where I`m going.

POTTS: Where are you going?

GRACE: I`m not questioning that the nurse thought she was asleep. Obviously the nurse thought she was asleep. She was known to sleep during daylight hours. My question was, how long was she alive when Stern left? How long had she been lying there, dying? That`s what I`m trying to figure out.

To you, Dr. William -- go ahead. Go ahead, tony.

POTTS: Well, one of the things that I think is interesting is that Big Moe, as we just saw just speaking, the bodyguard, the good thing about a bodyguard, as we all know, he can protect you. The bad thing about a bodyguard is he can protect you, which means he knows a lot of secrets and time lines and things of that nature.

And now I think -- and what I`m hearing behind the scenes from people is that Howard was supposed to take care of Moe in all of this afterwards. And right now, I don`t think he is. People think that Howard`s house of cards are now crumbling, and once Dannielynn is gone, Howard`s cash cow...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: What do you mean by that, his house of cards is crumbling? What does that mean?

POTTS: People around him feel that he`s created this house of cards. He moved Anna Nicole, the corporation, offshore, the way a company would go offshore to the Bahamas, to be able to be outside the rule of the U.S. law, which has proven the case here.

I also hear from people inside and around that situation that Moe is now willing to talk. He knows more than he has said. He has not lied -- I want to make that clear -- but he has not explained everything, all the details that he knows.

And I can tell you for a fact that he knows a lot more, and bodyguards always do. The question is, is he saying this now, because he feels at some point down the road he will be in front of a judge and he will have to, under oath...

GRACE: Wait. Is he saying -- what now? What do you mean he knows a lot? You know for a fact he knows more than he is revealing, what do you mean?

POTTS: Absolutely. I know that he`s talking about that there was a bottle, a baby bottle close by on top of Anna Nicole on the sheets. And there are other things that he knows that he`s willing to talk about. And we just have to -- we`re all working to try to get to Moe to talk about those things.

But I think Moe is an honest guy. I think Moe is trying to do the right thing. I think now he realizes that he better say what`s right, and say what`s real, and say what he knows, because at some point he will be under oath, Nancy.

GRACE: Ron Rale, this is Anna Nicole Smith`s attorney, friend of Stern, do you believe that`s true? Do you believe that the bodyguard will end up under oath? And if so, why?

RON RALE, ANNA NICOLE SMITH`S ATTORNEY: You know, Tony, I got a new nickname for you, Tony Potshot, because you don`t know -- these allegations, offshore, corporation...

GRACE: Well, is it true or not?

RALE: It`s all speculation.

POTTS: It`s not an allegation.

RALE: He`s got no basis for anything he`s saying.

POTTS: That`s not true.

(CROSSTALK)

RALE: Tony, I`m disappointed. I`m disappointed.

(CROSSTALK)

POTTS: Ron, I`ve talked to these people.

RALE: ... check our sources. I don`t know if you...

POTTS: My sources are inside, Ron. My sources are inside, Ron.

(CROSSTALK)

RALE: Inside? I mean, what more inside is there than Howard or Moe? And I`m sure you haven`t talked to Moe about that, because that doesn`t sound like the Moe that I know.

(CROSSTALK)

POTTS: Well, then you don`t know much about these people then.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. Here`s your chance. Ron, is it true, in response to Tony Potts, is it true, did he move that offshore?

RALE: This is the first I`ve heard of anything. You know, so it`s something that I would say is not true. But I would check his sources.

POTTS: Ron...

RALE: In terms of talking about -- I mean, offshore what? What are we talking about that he moved offshore, some corporation? What is he talking about?

POTTS: Like a corporation, Ron, like a corporation, what you do is you move them offshore, like a corporation.

RALE: What corporation are you talking about?

POTTS: I`m saying "like a corporation," Ron. Like a corporation. You move somebody and what you`re doing offshore. Anna Nicole Smith was incorporated.

RALE: So you`re saying he moved Anna Nicole offshore like a corporation?

POTTS: Absolutely.

RALE: That doesn`t make sense. OK, it was just an analogy. I`m sorry, so it`s just an analogy. OK.

GRACE: Well, to compare Anna Nicole Smith to a corporation, I don`t see it. But I think what Tony Potts is hitting at is that it has been rumored that he moved her away from her U.S. domicile, away from her surrounding friends, her...

RALE: I can respond to that, because you heard the testimony at trial from Ford Shelley, who is basically an adverse witness. He was put on by - - was it Virgie`s side? But I think he testified at trial, assuming he was telling what he thought was the truth, that, when Anna moved to the Bahamas, it was because of his idea in South Carolina when she wanted to get away from the media. So it had nothing to do -- that`s what he testified at trial.

GRACE: To Jason Kennedy with E!, weigh in.

JASON KENNEDY, REPORTER, E!: I want to weigh in, but Dr. Perper yesterday made it clear on your show. Going back to your initial question, Nancy, how long had she been dead for? When Moe, the bodyguard, was performing CPR, her body was still warm, this, according, again, to Dr. Perper. So the time line right there, she probably wasn`t dead for a long period of time.

GRACE: That`s a really good question, a really good point, Jason Kennedy.

To you, Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner and toxicologist, we know that she was in a room, in Florida, under the covers. How long before her body would actually begin to drop in temperature?

DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER: When you`re under the covers, the covers are retaining your body heat. And you may expire, but it could take 20 or 30 minutes for you to drop five or 10 degrees, but you can`t feel that difference. It`s not until the body gets down to 60 or 70 degrees, and that`s room temperature.

GRACE: Dr. Morrone, in my experience prosecuting homicides, unless the body is out in the elements, outside, to the human touch, you don`t necessarily notice the drop in the flesh temperature.

MORRONE: Exactly. Exactly. It`s really difficult to tell. You know, it just feels warm. That`s all.

GRACE: Let`s go to the lines, Michael in Minnesota. Hi, Michael.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call.

GRACE: Yes, sir. What`s your question, dead?

CALLER: My question, narcotics are prescribed for chronic pain conditions. Ron Rale may be able to address this as a close personal friend of Howard Stern, since many of the medications were apparently prescribed to Howard K. Stern. What kind of chronic pain conditions did Howard K. Stern, or does he have, or did Nicole have? Has that ever been addressed?

GRACE: You know, Michael, maybe you should be a lawyer. I just asked Rale that question about Anna Nicole, but I didn`t ask about Howard K. Stern. You know, he`s right, Ron. The prescriptions were in Stern`s name. So Stern looks very fit and able-bodied to me. What`s his ailment?

RALE: You know, I know a lot about Howard, but I don`t know his personal ailments. I`ll say maybe -- I know he was a great high school football player, maybe he has some lingering injuries. But I really -- I can`t answer that question. I just don`t...

GRACE: They must really be lingering to use methadone.

RALE: Yes, and I don`t know, in fact -- you know, again, we`re talking -- I don`t know what stuff was in his name or if anything was. So I just can`t answer that.

GRACE: To Katie in Ohio. Hi, Katie.

CALLER: I`m in Iowa. My question is, what about the new evidence about Daniel going to a private investigator, thinking that his mother was in danger and himself, and then he up and dies? And you know what? I`m the public, and the public all think that Howard is guilty.

GRACE: Before we start, before we come home with our own homicide indictment, Tony, what can you tell me about Daniel hiring a private investigator?

POTTS: You know, that`s the first I`ve heard of that. I`m not connected on that side. I do know people in Moe`s corner. I do know people on the island. I do know people in South Carolina and also in Florida, as well. But this is the first I`ve heard of that. That would be one revelation, that`s for sure.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIRKHEAD: What if I could have helped her? What if I could have helped him? I just -- I really wish that I was there. I wish I wasn`t pushed to the side, because I think that things could have turned out different, maybe for not only Anna, but Daniel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And now, even the fear that the grave of Anna Nicole Smith may be targeted, to Mike Brooks, what`s the security there at the graveyard?

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: Well, Nancy, apparently, they just now started having security guards there, because apparently the tour companies and taxi cabs, everybody wants to go see Anna Nicole`s grave. So, you know, they get out, and they trample all over it, because there`s no fence up around there. All they have was three security cameras. But I`m hearing now that they have security guards, and they`re not letting anyone in unless you have a family member there.

GRACE: Well, it wouldn`t be the first time. The body of Elvis Presley was moved for fear of someone digging it up. The late, great Jim Morrison`s grave site has been vandalized. Charlie Chaplin actually was dug up and held hostage, even fear for Abraham Lincoln.

To you, Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, a grave robber? Shrink it.

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, morbid curiosity, sensationalism, our obsession with celebrity, really, it`s very disrespectful to the deceased, and these people should not be going to the cemetery at all.

GRACE: Oh, I know that, but I`m trying to get in the mind of somebody that would actually do that.

AUSTIN: It`s a morbid curiosity. Why do people look at car wrecks, for example? They really look at the dark side of life, and they may be thinking, "Thank goodness it`s not me." Or, "How creepy that is," it`s a thrill, it`s an excitement, and it`s an obsession with sensationalism.

GRACE: As much as I would love to further discuss grave robbing, I want to take you to a case that is near to my heart, a case in which I am looking for answers.

To California, Elizabeth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CANDY ARNOLD, MOTHER OF MURDER VICTIM: I didn`t understand how the judicial system worked. And how, when somebody gave a confession, it could just be kind of thrown out.

GRACE: Did he have a rap sheet? I understand that he was a gang member. I`m not sure about that.

ARNOLD: Yes, he did. Yes, he did. He had just been arrested a couple of days before or detained a couple of days before the shooting on weapons charges.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A college student chasing the all-American dream, his life cut short in a hail of bullets. Jane Velez-Mitchell, investigative reporter and author, I don`t understand. It seems to me the prosecution has let the case go cold.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Yes, it`s been two years, Nancy, and this family says, "We want justice." There is a killer on the loose, and this man has not been brought to justice. This very popular football player from Western New Mexico University went with two buddies to Tucson. And at 3:30 in the morning, they were leaving a fast- food restaurant, hit with a hail of bullets, 15 bullets.

Poor Nick Arnold died right at the scene. Two men were arrested. But then, after being charged with murder, the charges were dropped, and they`ve never been re-filed.

GRACE: That confession, suppressed.

Out to Nicholas Arnold`s mother, Candy Arnold. The prosecution told you they would stay on the case. What`s happening, Miss Arnold?

ARNOLD: Right now, there`s nothing happening.

GRACE: That`s what you told me last time.

ARNOLD: Yes, there`s nothing happening. It seems like these people that have done this to my son have shut down the city or at least the neighborhood. People aren`t talking. There are people there, and I know that they know what happened. I know they know what`s going on. And they`re afraid to talk.

I don`t know how people...

GRACE: Afraid? Afraid to talk?

ARNOLD: I don`t know why they`re afraid to talk. I mean, there`s people there that consider themselves to be good friends of my son. They told me that they cared about my son. They would call and, you know, were really sorry. If there`s anything we can do, yes, you can come forward and tell people what you know. Stand up.

GRACE: What`s killing me, Candy, is that this guy gave a confession.

ARNOLD: Yes.

GRACE: It`s not as if police don`t know who killed your son, your son, a star on and off the field. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Eleanor Dixon, Kevin Mincey, Randy Zelin.

Eleanor, how do you revive a cold case?

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: I think there`s several things you could do. One is try to canvas the neighborhood again and see if you can`t get some witnesses to talk, see if you can`t infiltrate some of those gangs, you know, especially with some of the detectives who are specifically assigned to those types of units. So that would be the first thing I would do, go back to the scene, canvas the neighborhood, reinvestigate.

GRACE: What about this, Kevin Mincey? How about the prosecution leveraging their power? Hello? Some of these people have got to have pending charges. What about a deal?

KEVIN MINCEY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well...

GRACE: You think it`s funny? I don`t think it`s funny.

MINCEY: It`s not necessarily known that some of these people have pending charges.

GRACE: They`re gang members, for Pete`s sake.

MINCEY: Alleged. Alleged.

GRACE: OK. You know what? Never mind.

Randy Zelin, help me out. We were talking about a young man cut down in the prime of his life, Kevin. I want answers, and I think Candy Arnold agrees with me. Mr. Zelin, do you have anything to add?

RANDY ZELIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: One of the most difficult things for a human being to grasp is, why is it that we don`t have to talk as a defendant? And why is it that, if we do talk, it can be thrown out? And it`s not about these kids.

GRACE: I did not ask you -- you know, all due respect -- to give me a primer in Miranda, OK? I`m going to give you another chance, Kevin. Help me out. What can we do to revive the investigation? And don`t give me a textbook explanation of Miranda.

MINCEY: I mean, the police officers have to start over. They dropped the ball on the confession.

GRACE: Sure did.

MINCEY: They have to start over, find witnesses, find forensics, the stuff that they should have done initially when this case was initially filed. Instead, they took the easy and lazy way out.

GRACE: I don`t know that they were lazy.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: I don`t know that they were lazy about it.

MINCEY: They weren`t lazy in the sense that they coerced a confession, but did the man ask for his lawyer? They didn`t stop, and now it jeopardizes their case.

GRACE: Miss Arnold, have you at least heard from police?

ARNOLD: I talk to them on a regular basis about this, but that confession was not coerced. He spoke freely.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and, more important, the people who touched all our lives.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CAPLAN, "STAR" MAGAZINE: The autopsy results are being postponed a couple of weeks. And interestingly enough, this comes essentially the same day that Seminole police are interviewing with Big Moe, who is Anna Nicole`s bodyguard, and hasn`t said -- he is telling police that Anna Nicole was in a cloud of drugs, actually for months. Plus, more interestingly enough, is that he was saying Howard K. Stern was acting very peculiar the day that Anna Nicole Smith died, even the days leading up to her death.

GRACE: A torso believed to be that of 34-year-old Tara Grant has been discovered. Did I just see the defendant in a wheelchair? Can I see that again, please? Then he stands up and gets in the paddy wagon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just because he`s accused of something doesn`t mean that he`s not entitled to medical care.

GRACE: OK. Excuse me, do you not see him stand up and get into the paddy wagon?

Did e-mails just released send NASA`s lady astronaut on a mission to kill?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ll have to control myself when I see you. First urge will be to rip your clothes off.

GRACE: I`ve got a problem with the buck knife, and the pepper spray, and the no attempted murder charge. Because she`s a lady and a NASA astronaut, she escaped a major charge, and that is not right.

Straight out of a Florida courtroom, a Florida jury has just handed down a capital murder conviction on John Evander Couey. Next, the death penalty phase set to kick off next week.

MARK LUNSFORD, DAUGHTER JESSICA ABDUCTED AND MURDERED: Justice has just about ended. We`ve still got to do the sentencing. When that comes, then it will be the end of this trial. But don`t let it be the end of what we do for kids. We have to keep fighting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Let`s stop to remember Army Specialist Jonathan Cadavero, 24, Tacoma Park, Maryland, killed, Iraq. An honor student at Columbia Union College, he was a trained medic. Once said, every time you leave the base, anything could happen. He was awarded the Purple Heart and the National Defense Service Medal. Leaving behind grieving widow Michelle, parents, Nadia and David, and sister, Christa. Jonathan Cadavero, American hero.

Thank you to our guests, but our biggest thank you is to you for inviting us into your homes. NANCY GRACE signing off for tonight. A special good night from the New York control room. Good night, Liz, Brett, Ben. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END