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American Morning
Speaking Out: General Peter Pace on Gays in the Military; Am Immigrant's Tale: From Mexico to New York City; New Calls for Rail Safety
Aired March 13, 2007 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody.
You're taking a live look in Zocalo Square at the Metropolitan Cathedral. Absolutely beautiful, a very large square here that dates back to the Aztec empire. It's right in the heart of Mexico City, and that is where we're reporting for you live this morning -- Miles.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad.
I'm Miles O'Brien, in New York City. Soledad in Mexico City, as you can see.
Tuesday, March 13th. We're glad you're with us.
A couple of quick headlines we've got on this side of the border.
Joint Chiefs chairman Peter Pace this morning making some news. Comments he made about the military's ban on gays in the military.
Also, new calls for rail safety after the fourth freight train accident in recent weeks. We'll have details in a live report coming up.
Back to you, Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: All right, Miles. Hey, Miles, want to tell you something a little bit interesting about our location.
Did you know that the entire city is built right on top of Aztec ruins? And so one of the cool things as you go down into the subway, you can actually see the ruins. They've got them blast in, but they are the actual -- the city is just built right on top of them. It's absolutely fascinating.
Of course, President Bush is here, and that's why we're here. President Bush and President Calderon, the Mexican President, here to talk about many important issues -- jobs, immigration, crime. All of those are going to be really top of the agenda as they sit down and have a meeting.
We're going to talk this morning as well about immigration, but from the Mexican side of the border. What has been the impact of all the mass migration? Some people say 15 percent, 15 percent of Mexicans have gone across the border. What is that doing to this nation now and potentially in the future, as well?
We'll take a look at that straight ahead -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you very much, Soledad. See you very shortly.
This morning, the nation's top military leader is facing fire after calling homosexuality immoral. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Marine General Peter Pace, telling the "Chicago Tribune" he supports the Pentagon's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy on moral grounds.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GEN. PETER PACE, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: I do not believe the armed forces of the United States are well served by saying through our policies that it's OK to be immoral in any -- in any way, not just with regards to homosexual acts. So, from that standpoint, saying that gays should serve openly in the military to me says that we, by policy, would be condoning what I believe is immoral activity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
M. O'BRIEN: CNN's Barbara Starr is live at the Pentagon.
And if you read that thing carefully, listen to it carefully, he says, "I believe" and "According to me" and "Here's what I think" several times, trying to clearly state this is his personal opinion.
Is that in any way going to dampen what appears to be a firestorm?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's the question, Miles. The chairman was giving his personal opinion, but he was in an interview as the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
So, does his personal opinion about his own upbringing really count in this case? Because it's always been the case that "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" has been a policy put into place by Congress, supported by the military because of the belief that homosexuality in the military is detrimental to good order and discipline. It's not been an issue stated to be one of morality.
The top lobbying group here in Washington, the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, already has put out a statement demanding that General Pace apologize, a very strongly-worded statement saying, "General Pace's comments are outrageous," in the words of that group, "... outrageous, insensitive and disrespectful to the 65,000 lesbian and gay troops now serving in the armed forces."
And, of course, in fact, the reality is, there are many people who are gay and lesbian who do serve very honorably in the military. So we will see how far this story now goes today -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: You know, I know you know General Pace pretty well. I guess I have to ask the question, why would he weigh in on this? Why would he share his personal opinions when these kind of opinions when you're wearing that uniform are apt to be viewed in other ways?
STARR: Well, you know, that is the question. We spoke a little while ago to some of his senior staff, and he apparently this morning told his senior staff he has no intention of apologizing at this point, that he was asked his personal opinion and that is what he offered.
His view is heartfelt, in his view. It's what he thinks. He characterized it all as his upbringing as a person.
But the question is going to be clearly throughout the day when people look at this statement, is his personal view really relevant to this? His view of morality?
That is going to be something that's going to be a very sensitive matter. And I think a lot of people in Washington this morning are waiting to see how members of Congress react and whether there are any statements from some of the presidential candidates out there about all of this -- Miles.
S. O'BRIEN: I suspect we'll be hearing quite a bit of statement- making today.
Thank you very much.
Barbara Starr at the Pentagon.
In Washington as well this morning, word that that mass firing of U.S. attorneys was actually much less of a bloodletting than the White House first considered. "The Washington Post" is reporting the White House considered firing each and every U.S. attorney in the country, 93 of them in all. In the end, eight were dismissed supposedly for poor performance, but critics say the administration actually was involved in a political vendetta.
The White House does admit the president spoke to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, passing on Republican concerns that the prosecutors were too soft on Democrats. Gonzales' chief of staff resigned yesterday as a result of this whole controversy.
President Bush won't have to get Congress for permission to take military action against Iran. Top House Democrats decided to take that language out of a military spending bill. The bill will call for U.S. combat troops to get out of Iraq by September 1, '08.
The U.N.'s chief nuclear inspector is in North Korea this morning. Mohamed ElBaradei is in Pyongyang to talk about shutting down North Korea's main nuclear reactor. North Korea has agreed to shut the reactor down by April 14th -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: All right, Miles. Thanks.
As you well know, illegal immigration is such a bitterly debated issue, frankly, on the U.S. side of the border. It's also debated here on the Mexican side of the border. In the U.S., people say Mexicans are stealing American jobs. People say Mexicans are flooding the healthcare system. Mexicans are draining the social services system.
On the Mexican side of the border, they say it's a win for the U.S. economy. At the end of the day, the U.S. economy can grow so fast because of all the Mexicans' low wages who are helping out. But it's also a win economically in many ways for Mexicans.
This morning we share the story of one man who is illegally living in the United States, but making enough money to help out his own village back in Mexico.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
S. O'BRIEN (voice over): For Miguel, this is his American dream.
(on camera): Is your business pretty successful?
MIGUEL, IMMIGRANT: Thank god, yes.
S. O'BRIEN (voice over): His flower shop is thriving, but Miguel thinks he would be doing even better if he were living here legally. Miguel crossed the border into the U.S. 10 years ago.
MIGUEL: It's really, really, really scary, but it happened.
S. O'BRIEN: Miguel's wife and their two children live with him in New York. The children were born in the states and are American citizens. Miguel is reluctant to show their faces or give his last name.
(on camera): You pay rent?
MIGUEL: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: You own a business?
MIGUEL: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: You pay taxes?
MIGUEL: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: All those things. People might think a surprise to have no documents.
MIGUEL: When you need to open a business you have to call the IRS, and give you -- they give you a number.
S. O'BRIEN (voice over): Miguel grew up in Oshacopan (ph), a two and a half hour drive outside of Mexico City. Locals say nearly half the town has left for jobs in the states after the textile mills here closed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): There are no jobs here. S. O'BRIEN: Miguel's father, Julio, works construction, but it's not enough. Every week Miguel sends $200 or so back home. His two brothers and sisters, also living illegally in the United States, help, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I feel proud about building the house because my kids' sacrifice had a purpose.
S. O'BRIEN: The money they've made in the U.S. is improving life here in Mexico. The two-room house Miguel grew up in now has rooms for everyone. But there's a good chance Miguel will never come back, and his mother, Margarita, has never seen her grandchildren.
MARGARITA, MIGUEL'S MOTHER (through translator): A mother needs her kids around. I miss them. It's been difficult.
S. O'BRIEN: Back in New York, Miguel says he'd like to be legal, own a bigger shop, hire more people.
(on camera): What do you think about this country?
MIGUEL: I think it's great. It's very -- it's very good. Just the only thing to immigrants, illegal immigrants, they give us a lot of -- like, they hate us, because they think that we just come to take and not to give.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
S. O'BRIEN: It's estimated that there are more than six million Mexicans living in the United States illegally. So, that story is repeated over and over and over again.
Ahead this morning, we're going to ask the important question, what exactly could be accomplished as the presidents of the United States and Mexico sit down to talk? We'll check in with an adviser from the Clinton administration to get some of the realities of what they could actually get done. That's straight ahead -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Soledad.
A lot of questions this morning about safety on the rails after a fourth freight train accident in recent weeks. This one in upstate New York. A train hauling propane went off the tracks there, exploding in a huge fireball. No one hurt, but homes and schools evacuated.
AMERICAN MORNING'S Alina Cho is taking a closer look this morning at train safety. She joins us from New York's Penn Station.
Good morning, Alina.
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there. Good morning to you, Miles.
You know, as you mentioned, that was a freight train that derailed yesterday, but it could have very easily been a passenger train. Amtrak trains that pass through Penn Station behind me roll over those very same tracks in upstate New York. So we wanted to know, how safe is it to travel by train?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHO (voice over): Monday's trail derailment in upstate New York was the fourth for railroad giant CSX this year. No one was injured, but some are asking, is there a larger problem with the nation's railways? The Federal Railroad Administration says the number of train accidents actually declined last year by 12 percent.
The consensus? A lot of close calls.
JIM BURNETT, FMR. NTSB CHAIRMAN: The nightmare scenario for me is the release of poisonous gas over a densely-populated area in an American city.
CHO: Jim Burnett, former chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board, believes there are three major problems.
Problem one, crew fatigue. Train crews are allowed to work as many as 432 hours a month, five times as much as airline pilots.
BURNETT: The railroads operate through the night. There's always a problem with human performance.
CHO: The leading cause of train accidents, at 40 percent, is human error. Of those, one in four is caused by fatigue. Congress is considering legislation that would limit the number of hours train crews can work from 12 hours at a time to 10.
JOSEPH BOARDMAN, FEDERAL RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION: It's also the hours -- the number of hours that they're either on duty or off duty or what is called today limbo time.
CHO: That's when crews are not actually working, but waiting for replacements. It counts as rest, even though it's not.
Problem two, faulty tracks. They're the number two cause of accidents.
BURNETT: Those hazardous materials that present a very high risk to the public, you ought to have more redundancy in terms of protection from human performance errors, more inspection of track.
CHO: Problem three, the train itself, like malfunctioning brakes or defective wheels. CSX says it spends more than $1 billion a year to manage its train and tracks.
BOB SULLIVAN, CSX SPOKESMAN: We do not skimp on safety, we do everything that we need to do to make this a safe railroad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHO: Now, this issue is getting even more attention now. Senator and presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton is calling for an investigation into rail safety in New York in the wake of yesterday's accident. She says these recent accidents should not be treated as isolated incidents. And, Miles, she calls this a wake-up call.
M. O'BRIEN: Alino Cho at Penn Station in New York.
Thank you.
Coming up, more from Soledad live in Mexico City. Summit diplomacy. A pair of presidents sit down in Mexico today. What can they walk away with?
Plus, the Republicans and their ex-wives. Can conservative voters divorce themselves from moral outrage over the candidates' failings?
We'll take a look.
You're watching AMERICAN MORNING. The most news in the morning right here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: It's about quarter past the hour now. Chad Myers at the CNN weather center.
(WEATHER REPORT)
S. O'BRIEN: We've been previewing, of course, for you the president's meeting -- previewing the president's meeting, the meeting between President Bush and President Calderon. Realistically, of course, the question is, what's going to actually get done?
Ana Maria Salazar was the deputy assistant secretary of defense focusing on drugs. Now she's a radio host and also a blogger, and she's with us now.
Nice to see you. Thank you for talking with us.
ANA MARIA SALAZAR, HOST, IMAGEN NEWS: Thank you. Welcome to Mexico City.
S. O'BRIEN: Thank you.
SALAZAR: It never rains in Mexico City during this time of year.
S. O'BRIEN: Clearly, I brought the bad weather. Everyone has told me that. I obviously brought the rainy weather with me.
Your background is focusing on drugs and crime. No question about it, it's going to be on the top of the agenda as these two presidents sit down to meet. Also immigration.
How critical are these meetings for both of these men?
SALAZAR: It's critical, but it's not probably the timing. There's a problem with timing.
I mean, unfortunately, for President Calderon, President Bush is coming to Mexico, you know, after a series of stops in different countries in which he's had -- you know, I would say, for example, the stop in Brazil, there were very interesting agreements that were reached in regards to ethanol, and, you know, there was other agreements reached in these other countries. He is coming to Mexico, and I have a sense that there's not very much in his pocket to offer to them, to the Mexican government, or to Mexico as a nation.
So, the issue of crime is going to be on the agenda, the issue of immigration is going to be on the agenda. I guess the question is, where are they going to meet?
Mexico wants to talk about immigration and the United States wants to talk about security. And it's not clear to me that there's, you know, issues where they can see eye to eye at this point.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes. I would think that is very true.
So, realistically, you don't think anything's going to come out of these meetings?
SALAZAR: Well, nothing substantive. I mean, the fact that you have a U.S. president meeting with the Mexican president in itself is a message, you know, that it's important for both nations to be talking, it's important for both nations to try to find areas where they can better coordinate and where they can find mutual interests. But any important announcements where, you know, you think that there is going to be substantive change in the relationships, no.
S. O'BRIEN: Mexicans hate President Bush or like President Bush. We've seen -- I mean, and seeing a protest here or there doesn't necessarily indicate, of course, how an entire country feels.
SALAZAR: In general, President Bush is very unpopular in Mexico and the rest of Latin America. And that's what makes this visit somewhat uncomfortable, I believe, for the Mexican government.
I mean, not only is he unpopular, but there's a general sense that he is a lame duck president. That he can't offer very much and it's not clear what can be done between now and the elections next year. So it's kind of -- it's a very -- it's very difficult to sit down and talk to somebody that you're not too sure they can get very much done.
S. O'BRIEN: We've been talking about immigration, certainly in the United States, where, as you well know, there's a fierce and some sometimes very ugly conversation happening. It's been interesting to me on the other side of the border to hear Mexicans lament the large numbers who are leaving. Not just the poor workers who are going to be housekeepers and gardeners...
SALAZAR: Right.
S. O'BRIEN: ... but, you know, they call it a brain drain. How much of a crisis is happening here in Mexico when 15 percent of the people go?
SALAZAR: Well, I think -- I believe it's a huge crisis. And I think they're starting to feel it in all these communities.
If you go to a small town here in Mexico and you start talking to the neighbors -- my father comes from a small town in upper northern Mexico. I look at my family, and I look at our -- you know, our neighbors. You talk to them and you ask them how many of them have relatives living in the United States, it's more than half.
I mean, it's incredible. You go to some of the other towns, there's no men in the town. All of them at one point or the other left to live in the United States. So...
S. O'BRIEN: A crisis in the U.S., and a bigger, maybe, crisis here.
SALAZAR: It's huge. It's a huge crisis here.
S. O'BRIEN: Ana Maria Salazar, thanks for talking with us this morning.
SALAZAR: Thank you, Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Hopefully the weather will clear up for both of us.
Let's send in back to New York and Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: It never rains in Mexico City, Soledad. They keep telling you that. Sorry about that.
Coming up, a closer look at the Republicans and their wrecked marriages. How will it all play in the bible belt?
And does Starbucks plus music equal its own record label? Ali Velshi "Minding Your Business."
Stay with us for more AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: Four candidates or potential candidates, nine current or former wives. If it sounds a little messy, it is. But how will it play in the bible belt?
Take a look at these numbers, along with the marriage count.
Rudy Giuliani, at the top of the polls right now, 34 percent is what he gets among Republicans, married three times. John McCain, 18 percent, married twice. Newt Gingrich, 9 percent in the polls -- of course he hasn't announced a candidacy, but he's talking about it -- married three times, and the little messy affair as he was pursuing Bill Clinton for having a messy affair. Mitt Romney, 9 percent in the polls, the Mormon, the only one with one wife. AMERICAN MORNING'S faith and values correspondent Delia Gallagher joining us now to sort this all out.
How will this play in the bible belt?
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN FAITH AND VALUES CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think clearly, you know, divorce has become something which is not a top value anymore for the value voters, especially when there's so many other issues on the board. However, it is clear that it still matters how your divorce played out.
In other words, did you embarrass your wife? Are your kids still talking to you? Those kinds of things. There still is this correlation between how a candidate lives his personal life and how he might do in the White House.
M. O'BRIEN: So, clean divorces are better. By that standard, Rudy Giuliani, who has a son who said some nasty things, might be in trouble. And possibly Newt Gingrich with that affair. Is that what people will be upset about?
GALLAGHER: Yes. I mean, surely there is this question on how does a man conducts himself in his personal life, because that's going for some people to play into his character and play into the fact of whether or not he would be a good representative of this country. But, on the other hand, when you've got all these candidates who are divorced, there are such things as sort of more quiet divorces and messier divorces that might come into play.
M. O'BRIEN: Even divorce is relative.
All right. Let's look at some other numbers. This comes from a "USA Today"-Gallup poll. It was released last month. And this was on the issue of whether people are willing to vote for a candidate who was married three times.
Among liberals, 74 percent fine. Moderates, 71 percent fine. Conservatives, 60 percent. That's the number that surprised me a little bit.
What does that tell you?
GALLAGHER: Well, what's interesting about divorce, Miles, within Christian communities is that as an issue not only in society, but also within Christian communities, it has become more acceptable. And, so, in some of these bible belt states you will find that they have twice the rate of divorce than other states, say Massachusetts, for example, and comparing that to some of the bible-based states. They have, you know, twice the numbers.
So that will tell you something about our society and what's changing in terms of our values, even amongst the Christian communities.
M. O'BRIEN: That's a bit surprising. So, in many respects, this group reflects all of us. GALLAGHER: That's right.
M. O'BRIEN: All right.
Delia Gallagher, our faith and values correspondent.
Thank you very much.
More proof Starbucks is looking for new ways to go after global domination. Yes, they aren't done yet. This time they're facing the music.
About 25 minutes past the hour, Ali Velshi "Minding Your Business."
Hello, Ali.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Miles.
This is a brand extension, where you take something that's working well in one area and extend it to somewhere else.
Starbucks is launching Hear Music, which is going to produce its own record label. It's going to produce music that can actually be heard in Starbucks stores and bought in Starbucks stores and sold in regular channels. The idea is they're developing ideas -- they're developing music for their customers.
Now, what you're watching on screen here is a Hear Music store which Starbucks bought in 1989. They bought this chain where you can go in, listen to every CD in the store before you buy it, and compile your own CD. So you sort of pick it out on a computer and then you burn your own CD, which is a nifty idea. It's happening in a lot of other places now.
Starbucks not really expanding the store-based model, but now saying they're going to make their own record label in concert with another company, and they're going to sell those -- those CDs all over the place. So if you like Starbucks, you can order a specialty CD with it, I suppose.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. That was a grande business report.
VELSHI: Exactly.
M. O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Ali.
Top stories of the morning are coming up. Our special look at the immigration struggle from inside Mexico. What happens to home towns when residents just up and leave the country?
Plus, fresh fallout for the attorney general this morning. There's word the White House wanted to fire all of the nation's U.S. attorneys.
You're watching AMERICAN MORNING. The most news in the morning right here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody, to a special edition of AMERICAN MORNING. I'm coming to you live this morning from Mexico City. You can see on the left side of your screen the square there, Zocalo Square. It's absolutely beautiful, dates back to the Aztec empire. And today of course is the spot of major public ceremonies and military displays and protests, too. Some of those protests we're sure to see as President Bush visits here.
Turn to the right, though. At the right side of your screen what you see there is the light on and Chris Lawrence getting ready for his live shot for us. But you saw, behind Chris, the lights. That's the U.S. side of the border. On the other side where there is no lights, the dark side, that's the Mexican side of the border. And that border between the United States and Mexico is really sure to be the topic of conversation between President Bush and President Calderon as they have their meetings later this morning -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Good morning to you, Soledad. I'm Miles O'Brien in New York City. We're glad you're with us this morning.
A couple of developing stories on this side of the border. The Joint Chiefs Chairman Peter Pace, defending don't ask, don't tell. At least one demand for an apology already this morning. Also new numbers about the walking wounded and the mental stress they come home with from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
We'll talk to Dr. Sanjay Gupta about that.
Back to you, Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: All right, Miles, thanks.
We've been focusing today on immigration, because that truly is what Presidents Bush and Calderon are going to be focused on as well as they begin their meetings later this morning. We want to take you along route (INAUDIBLE), or Route 85. You take it straight out of the city, and one thing you see and really get an eyeful of is the little towns that dot that route along the way, and what you see is the effect the mass migration has had on all of Mexico.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
S. O'BRIEN (voice-over): Along the way to Hidalgo from Mexico City you see majestic mountains, picturesque villages, roadside pottery stands and you see lots and lots of new construction.
PRIMITIVO RODRIGUEZ, MEXICAN IMMIGRATION EXPERT: That church is new. This school is new. The square is now. This construction is new. That is new. That construction is new. I mean, you see everywhere new houses.
S. O'BRIEN: In the tiny village of Julio Villagran, the streets are mostly empty. "Only women remain," she says. "The men are gone."
Delfina's (ph) son is one of them. He's 18 years old. He's been living in Florida for two years.
I asked Baiolo Ramirez (ph), how many of her family members have crossed the border to the States. She says, four of her siblings and 20 cousins have gone, all to America, all sending back money, and that money is literally helping build this village. But it's also destroying Julio Villagran.
She says, "Residents leave because they can only earn enough to eat." "You can't eat," she says, "and have a home."
Senor Epefanio Pentoha (ph) ran a small grocery store, but it closed. I asked him why and he said, "No customers." Where are the people?
"The young people are all working in America."
Socks were once made at this factory by 200 employees. Now it's empty. Further down the road in Ixmiquilpan, the town center is abuzz with people selling goods and children playing. I meet the local historian, Jose Ramirez. He tells me the area has been decimated.
(on camera): What percentage of the people...
(SPEAKING IN SPANISH)
Twenty percent.
(voice-over): Of the 75,000 people who lived in Ixmiquilpan and surrounding villages, he says, 15,000 have gone north, 8,000 in the last three years alone.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
S. O'BRIEN: And where are they all going? They're going to New York. They're going to L.A. They're going to Dallas. They're going to Dallas. They're going to Raleigh. They're going to Atlanta, Chicago, Fresno. All those cities are experiencing big, big growth in their illegal immigrant population. I want to direct everybody to our Web site, CNN.com/am, because we put online a photo gallery of some pretty amazing pictures, if I must say so myself, of all the sites we have seen as we've been here in Mexico over the last several days. I hope you get a chance to check it out on our Web site right there -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, Soledad, looks like some good pictures of you, too. Thanks.
In Washington this morning, word that that mass firing of U.S. attorneys was much less of a bloodletting than the White House first considered. "The Washington Post" is reporting the administration considered firing each and every U.S. attorney in the country. That's 93 of them. In the end eight were dismissed, supposed for poor performance. But critics of the administration say it was all a political vendetta. The White House does admit that the president spoke with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, passing on Republican concerns that prosecutors were being too soft on Democrats. Gonzales chief of staff resigned yesterday as a result of all this.
This morning a group representing gays in the military is demanding an apology from the nation's top officer. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Marine General Peter Pace telling "The Chicago Tribune" homosexuality is immoral.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. PETER PACE, CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: I do not believe that the armed forces of the United States are well served by saying through our policies that it's OK to be immoral in any way, not just in regards to homosexual acts. So from that standpoint, saying that gays should serve openly in the military to me says that we, by policy, would be condoning what I believe is immoral activity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
M. O'BRIEN: Democrats and Congress are planning to introduce legislation that would allow gay men and women to serve openly.
Also at the Pentagon, heads are still rolling in the wake of the scandal at Walter Reed. More hearings today. No less than four groups investigating the shoddy conditions that outraged many wounded vets and their families. The Army's top medical officer, General Kevin Kiley, is out, forced to retire. He's the their high-level officer to lose his job since "The Washington Post" broke story -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: All right, Miles.
Back in Mexico City, live for you this morning. And, Miles, you know, if you ask, especially out in the countryside, if you ask any Mexicans there how many of your relatives are living in the United States. First they'll tell you, oh, I have no relatives living in the United States, and literally five minutes later, they'll say seven, 10, 20, 30. I mean, every single person we spoke to has a relative living in the United States.
But Ed Lavandera's going to a border town where actually they're saying the number of migrants coming in dropped.
Ed Lavandera is in Palomas, Mexico for us this morning.
Good morning, Ed.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
And I think what many migrants are probably doing at this point, and we've able to gather this from talking to them over the last few days, is they're trying to figure out exactly how things are changing on the U.S. side. They do say, however, that the stepped up enforcement on the U.S. side has made it getting across more difficult, but they will continue trying, because they are driven by desperation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA (voice-over): This is the town square in Palomas, Mexico. It's a depressing, dirty, far-flung outpost along the New Mexico/Mexico border, an ideal place to come find the people and meet the people that are making that migration northward. In fact many of them will be catching those buses here as the sun begins to set to make that journey.
Sitting there at the gazebo in the white T-shirt is 24-year-old Manuel Adrian (ph). Why do you feel you have no hope here, that you have to go north?
He says for the necessity to have something in life, to have something to offer his family.
In Mexico, Manuel can make no more than $13 a day. He's trying to search for a construction job in Sante Fe, New Mexico that will pay him $13 an hour.
(on camera): He's been living under this Christmas tree here. What it's like sleeping under there at night?
"Cold, loud and scared."
(voice-over): It's time to move. Migrants board the bus for Los Chepos (ph), a small village where they'll begin their walk into the U.S. Sixty-four-year-old Memesio Salles (ph) will cross the border tonight.
(on camera): Why are you smiling for?
(voice-over): He says, "I laugh, because if I cry it only makes the situation worse. Besides, my soul smiles."
He's looking for any job so he can build a home for his family. A backpack is all he brings.
(on camera): So this is Los Chepos, the colony of no more than about 30 people. This is the last stop before heading north. The scene plays out every night in Los Chepos, migrants chasing a golden dream.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Soledad, believe it or not people here speak of this time of year as migrant season. The time between winter and the hot, grueling summer months, where the majority of migrants try to make that push northward. And they say that in the time here in the plaza, in the main square, that we're here in the town of Palomas, in the coming hours, this will begin to fill up. Their buses bringing migrants from the interior of Mexico, and from here they'll fire off that last launch into the U.S., the most difficult part of a journey that's already been long and grueling for many of them -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Ed Lavandera in Palomas, Mexico for us this morning. Thank you, Ed.
There are some estimates that say 15 to 20 percent of villagers have left, have gone across the border. And in many cases they're not coming back. What is the impact to the Mexican culture? What's the impact to Mexico's future when there's a brain drain across the border? We'll take a look at that straight ahead this morning.
We're back in just a moment.
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S. O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody, as we come to you live from Mexico City on quite a drizzly, rainy day here. There are some people who say that 20 percent of the people in the villages have left those villages to head up north to the United States. Our next guest says in some of those villages that number could be more like 40 percent.
What's the impact to a country like Mexico? What would the impact be on any country if the bulk of its workforce just got up and left?
Hector Tobar is New Mexico City's bureau chief for "The L.A. Times," he's with us this morning.
Thanks for sticking it out in the rain. I sure appreciate it.
I've heard it described as a black hole, just people sort of being sucked out, and not just the poor people, but also the people who are middle class heading across the border. Do you agree with that analogy that it's a black hole?
HECTOR TOBAR, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": There are villages in Mexico where there are only women and children left. Everyone between the ages of 20 and 50 have gone to work north of the border, and it creates sort of a vacuum, a vacuum of energy, you know, an vacuum of intellectual ferment, you know, that you don't see in these Mexican towns. And it also creates a culture of dependence. If you live in a Mexican town and you have a house, has a roof leaking, for example, on a rainy day like this. You know, the best way to fix your problem is to call your cousin in Detroit or your cousin in San Francisco. And so you learn that the way to solve your problems is by making a phone call to the north to ask somebody for money, and it just creates a sort of culture of dependence.
S. O'BRIEN: It's been very interesting, to me, to see a real change. Now you actually see families who are heading over across the border. At a time it just used to be young men who were going across the border and then sending money back to their families. But now entire families going. That's another big problem.
TOBAR: Right. It's because you can't get back. Immigration used to be a seasonal thing. You'd go and you'd work the crops in Oregon or Washington, and you'd come back for Christmas and bring back Christmas presents. But now you know that when you try to go back to the States to return to your job in Washington or Kansas or wherever, you have that, you know, border patrol presence that's very strong. You'll have to pay a smuggler thousands of dollars to help you get back, and some people tend to stay. And when they stay they say, hey, you know, have my kids come over, let's have kids come over, my wife.
S. O'BRIEN: So the fallout from a stronger clamp down on the border is actually making more of the illegal immigrants stay.
TOBAR: Exactly. It's creating a permanent presence of illegal immigrants in the United States, rather than the back and forth that used to be the way people lived.
S. O'BRIEN: Tourism. In some places the violence is so bad it's affecting tourism. In some places the reports of kidnapping have forced people across the border.
TOBAR: Right, exactly, especially along the Pacific Coast of Mexico, where Acapulco is, and many of the resorts. There's a horrible drug war going on. They cartels use the Pacific Coast of Mexico to shift drugs that come from Columbia eventually are going to be headed to the United States, and they land in the Pacific coast of Mexico.
So you have two cartels that are fighting it out, and they're doing things like beheading each other, beheading police officers, and only a few tourists really have been caught in this web of violence, but it's enough to scare some of the tourism away.
S. O'BRIEN: Some of the things that the two presidents will be talking about a little bit later as those meetings get under way.
Hector Tobar is the Mexico City bureau chief for "The L.A. Times." Nice to see you. Thanks for helping us out.
TOBAR: Thank you very much. Thank you.
Let's send it back to Miles in New York.
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"CNN NEWSROOM" just a few moments away. Heidi Collins at the CNN Center has a look at what's ahead.
Hello, Heidi. How are you?
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: I'm terrific. Thanks, Miles.
That's right. We have these stories coming up on the "NEWSROOM" rundown -- Joint Chiefs chairman Peter Pace raising eyebrows with his personal view of homosexuality. He calls it "immoral."
The sentencing phase of John Couey's trial opening in Florida this morning. He could be executed for the rape and murder of 9-year- old Jessica Lunsford.
And women living and working in war zones, strong and resilient trying to rebuild lives and countries. We talk with a filmmaker about her exciting new documentary. Don't miss that one. Join Tony Harris and me here in the "NEWSROOM" at the top of the hour here on CNN -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: See you then, Heidi. Thank you.
Coming up, the wounds from war -- not all injuries are visible when vets come home from their tours of duty. We have Dr. Sanjay Gupta in the house. We'll have that ahead. Stay with us.
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M. O'BRIEN: The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are creating a whole new generation of young men and women coming home with life- altering injuries. Most are plain for us to see, but there are some invisible injuries that are just as serious, and there is new word this morning on just how many veterans may be suffering.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta with a look for us. He joins us live from Atlanta.
Good morning, Sanjay.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Miles,
This is a fascinating study, specifically talking as you're saying about mental illness. The numbers sort of staggering. This coming from the San Francisco Veterans Administration Center, saying about 25 percent of those returning from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are suffering from some sort of mental illness.
And even more than that, most people have at least two different forms of mental illness, PTSD, anxiety, depression and substance abuse being the most common. PTSD sort of being the most common among those as well. About half the people who have mental illness have some sort of PTSD.
A couple of things really stuck out to me, Miles, reading the study. One is that, not surprisingly I guess, it could be months or years after people return from being over in Iraq or Afghanistan before they start to have some of these symptoms. So they could be discharged from the military. They could be discharged from their care at the Veterans Administration hospital as well, and then develop symptoms.
Also the age of the people. It was youngest, the demographic between the ages of 18 and 24, that seemed to be at the highest risk, as well. But high numbers, Miles, 25 percent, one in four people, having some sort of mental illness.
M. O'BRIEN: It's interesting. You know, you studied the human brain an awful lot -- you are a neurosurgeon.
GUPTA: Right.
M. O'BRIEN: Is there something about the brain's development at that age that makes it more or less susceptible to all of this?
GUPTA: You know, we looked at that same question. It's interesting that you asked that. And what we found was more than that probably had to do with something simpler. The youngest people typically are the low men, or low women, on the totem pole and, as a result, they're seeing more combat experience and they're seeing more of the awful stuff that takes place on a battlefield. And at least preliminarily, Miles, it seemed to be more attributed to that than their brain specific function.
M. O'BRIEN: Now do we know long term, are they better able to heal these mental wounds over time?
GUPTA: Well, it is going to take a while to sort of look at these people in long term. What we do know is that the Veterans Administration hospital is holding a double-edge sword. They're one of the best institutions overall to address mental illness. Why? Because they see so much of it.
On the other hand, I'm not sure if they're still fully equipped to be able to take care of the numbers that we're seeing back, 25,000 so far, that they're taking care of right now. There's a combination of drug therapy. There's a combination of talk therapy. And something interesting, as well, Miles, they have something known as virtual therapy, something I went through as well. It was part of a story that I was doing where they basically sort of take you back there. They put this set on you. And full disclosure, I didn't think it was going to have any sort of impact on me, but as soon as they took me on one of those convoy rides that I remembered so well from Iraq and you come under fire again, it really takes you back there. And the whole point of that therapy is that it makes you confront your fears so that you can better overcome them.
Again, Miles, very preliminary, but we're starting to see some good numbers back in terms of the effectiveness of some of those therapies.
M. O'BRIEN: Well, let me just ask you this finally, because we've been talking so much about the care these veterans get. One of the horror stories we heard about was these poor people missing limbs, having to fill out stacks of forms to prove what is plainly evident, that they're missing a limb. In the case of mental illness, are they running into even more obstacles because it's invisible?
GUPTA: Absolutely. I think it's no surprise. It's very -- there's no blood test. There's no MRI test, some sort of radiology test to make these diagnosis, so is does require not only lots of paperwork, but doctors actually sitting down and talking to these patients for a long time to be able to come to that conclusion.
It's hard. But again, the V.A., probably better than other institutions, at being able to address this.
M. O'BRIEN: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks very much.
GUPTA: Thanks, sir. M. O'BRIEN: Here's a quick look at what "CNN NEWSROOM" is working on for the top of hour.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: See these stories in the "CNN NEWSROOM," President Bush in his first summit today with Mexico's new leader. Immigration, particularly Mexico's anger over a border fence, the top issue.
Joint Chiefs Chairman Peter Pace labelling homosexuality immoral.
Insider threats -- the TSA cracks down on airport workers after a baggage handler uses his pass to get weapons on a plane.
Florida burglar -- caught with his pants down. You're in the NEWSROOM, 9:00 a.m. Eastern, 6:00 Pacific.
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