Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Chlorine Used in Iraq Attacks; Protests in the Capital; St. Patrick's Day Celebrated

Aired March 17, 2007 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Next in the NEWSROOM suicide bombers step up the use of chlorine gas in Iraq. Three attacks sicken U.S. soldiers and more than 300 Iraqis.
Plus, take a look at this... live pictures of protestors in the streets just days from the fourth anniversary of the war in Iraq. We'll take you there live.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The message that's being sent by the indictments will have a chilling effect not only on New York City detectives and New York City police, but law enforcement throughout the country.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And New York police officers facing indictments for killing an unarmed groom to be.

Good afternoon I'm Fredricka Whitfield and you're in the NEWSROOM. Chemicals and explosives, a deadly combination and one that's becoming a weapon of choice for Iraqi insurgents. Suicide bombers detonated three trucks filled with chlorine in Anbar Province, one near Ramadi, two near Falluja. Two police officers died, hundreds of people were sickened including six coalition force members. Our Kyra Phillips is in Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR (on camera): It's a fairly new tactic, these chlorine-filled trucks that I'm told and now we're seeing three bombings coming forward through U.S. military information. Suicide bombers, we are told, detonated three chlorine filled trucks in the Anbar Province, killing two police officers and sickening about 350 Iraqis and six coalition force members. I can tell you that the bombings occurred at three separate places, one a checkpoint just north of Ramadi, a number of these checkpoints are not safe, you don't know if they are good guys or bad guys manning these checkpoints.

Today is proof that they are not completely safe, even though it appears to be manned by police or military. The other one happened Amaria, that's about 10 miles south of Falluja and then also in the Abu Isa region just south of Falluja. Now, why chlorine? Well it causes difficulty in breathing, coughing, vomiting, it causes burning to the skin, also in the nose, throat, and the eyes. It's very common to find chlorine here in the Iraq -- in the country of Iraq. It's used to purify the water, also to deal with the sewage. And also, believe it or not, to clean the chicken, one of the main staples here in Baghdad and throughout the region. I'm being told that suicide car bombers have used this tactic, this chlorine against Iraqis in Sunni- dominated Anbar Province region a total of five times since the end of January.

Kyra Phillips, CNN, Baghdad.

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: So what does it mean to be exposed to chlorine gas? Let's talk to Professor Leonard Cole of Rutgers University. He's written extensively about biological and chemical terror. Glad you could be with us. Well let's talk about what happens when you are exposed to chlorine. Is it something that you only feel once you ingest it or is it something else that takes place on the exterior of your body?

LEONARD COLE, ADJUNCT PROFESSOR, RUTGERS UNIV.: Well, in the first place, it has a very powerful odor so you know pretty well that at the very least you're exposed to and breathing in something that's not normal. But most of us have a sense of what the chlorine odor is like just from swimming pools. It's a water purifier. But in heavy concentrated amounts it's a very, very dangerous material. As you said in your opening, it causes vomiting, it causes burning of the eyes. If it's in sufficient quantity breathed in, it can burn your lungs.

WHITFIELD: So it's not that it's just uncomfortable but it is potentially lethal. At least two people, as far as we know, have actually died from this exposure in Iraq.

COLE: Yes, a couple of years ago there was a train collision, a wreck, it was an accident in the United States, one of our southern states. There were several chlorine tankers that blew open and actually the fumes lofted for several meters beyond. And ultimately they actually caused a half dozen deaths. Many people got sick. So it is a very highly-toxic material when it's concentrated and it can be lethal if you breathe in a large concentrated quantity.

WHITFIELD: So meantime, how do you treat someone? We know that at least in Iraq at least five attacks involving this chlorine gas just like this situation February 21st of this year, these five attacks happening since January. How does one treat someone who's been exposed?

COLE: Yeah, well there are two things to be said about that. First in terms of treatment, there isn't much you can do except if you're near, if you've had exposure to the skin you can wash immediately. Wash with water, best with soap if you have the opportunity. Once it's breathed in, breathing in, there isn't much you can do about it. But I would say if you have an opportunity to grab a handkerchief and moisten it and you hold that over your nose, that will act as somewhat of a breathing mask for you. That can help filter out some of the fumes. But my larger concern is that this is becoming a little more common now, obviously now near Baghdad. These things, they can multiply, becomes contagious. The whole notion of using poison gas of any sort, it's not a good omen about what's down the road.

WHITFIELD: Professor Leonard Cole of Rutgers University, thanks so much for taking the time out for us.

COLE: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Meantime, also here in the states, a weekend of protests in Washington, as the war in Iraq approaches its fourth anniversary. There was a march from the Vietnam Veteran's Memorial today across the Potomac River to the Pentagon. And then last night, there was a march from Washington's national cathedral to the White House. More than 200 protestors were arrested. Police say they broke a law requiring pedestrians to keep moving on the sidewalk in front of the White House.

And at this hour, today's protest marchers have arrived at the Pentagon, that's where Gary Nurenberg is right now, pretty big crowd there, right, Gary?

GARY NURENBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Fredricka. You know from your time in Washington that the north parking lot of the Pentagon is really several hundred yards away from the building, as close as these demonstrators are allowed today. Organizers had a permit for as many as 30,000 demonstrators to walk from the Vietnam Memorial in Washington to here in the pentagon. It does not look like they are approaching that number yet. They began arriving, the first embers of the march, how about 20 minutes ago. And from our prospective we can still see hundreds of others joining them here. There are a number of organizations sponsoring activity across the country. This organization says it has about 500 in the United States with companion organizations, about a thousand demonstrations. This one at the Pentagon is just the most recent of demonstrations planned for Washington this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NURENBERG (voice-over): Christian war protestors rallied near the White House last night after a march from the national cathedral. Two hundred and twenty two demonstrators were arrested by park police after refusing orders to move from a sidewalk in front of the White House. The chants deliberately echoed those of other war protestors 40 years ago.

The 1967 anti-Vietnam war demonstration by an estimated 50,000 protestors at the Pentagon. It helped galvanize opposition to that war. Today's march on the Pentagon includes Iraq war veterans like 31-year-old Garrett Reppenhagen who spent a year in and around Baquba as an army sniper and who still worries about his friends there.

GARRETT REPPENHAGEN, IRAQ WAR VET: I'm very pro military. My friends are still in. I support them. I'm honored to have served with all of my buddies that I served with in Iraq. I'm honored to have served my country. NURENBERG: But he wants the troops out now.

REPPENHAGEN: I feel that the military was hijacked by this administration and used immorally in a war of aggression.

NURENBERG: Reppenhagen is now chairman of Iraq vets against the war.

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

NURENBERG: As the marchers made their way to the Pentagon this afternoon they were confronted by counter demonstrators. Two CNN photographers with a long history of covering demonstrations in DC said that in their view there were perhaps 2,000 counter demonstrators. Many of them wind up near the Lincoln Memorial throwing chants at those who are here this afternoon. Fredricka we have some video images of that. We will watch this demonstration, we'll collect it all for you and be back later in the afternoon.

WHITFIELD: All right, Gary Nurenberg, thanks so much. A very noisy protest there just outside the Pentagon grounds.

Meantime, President Bush paying attention to what's taking place in Washington, but from a distance, he's at Camp David. Meantime, he did discuss the Iraq war today during his weekly radio address. CNN's Kathleen Koch joins us live with more on that. And so what was said?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Fredricka, President Bush in his radio address pointed out that in his opinion his new plan for Iraq, the troop increase, while it's in its early stages, he says its showing signs of progress, what he called hopeful signs. Certainly following with whomever we've been hearing from the White House a great deal lately that the American people, the congress need to give that plan a chance to work. But the president in his radio address also came down hard on congress, really said that it was time for it to pass a clean emergency war funding bill. That's a measure that congress begins to debate next week. Some $95.5 billion funds for both Iraq and Afghanistan. And the president says the problem is there's too much unrelated spending in the bill for programs like NASA, Peanut Storage, the farm service agency. And the president also opposes certain benchmarks and restrictions that the spending bill would impose on funding for Iraqi troops and for the conduct of the war in Iraq.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

BUSH: The bill would impose arbitrary and restrictive conditions in the use war funds and require the withdrawal of forces by the end of this year if these conditions are not met.

SEN. PATTY MURRAY, (D) WASHINGTON: They want to stay the course. They want to ignore the lessons of the last four years. They want to commit America to an open-ended civil war.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP) KOCH: What you heard there was part of the Democratic response from Senator Patty Murray, democrats making the case in their response if they feel that after four years, it is now time to bring this war to an end. Back to you Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And meantime Kathleen, I mention the president is at Camp David, but maybe not within earshot of all the protests. But certainly he's not in the dark about it. So what is the administration's response to it?

KOCH: Well the president is obviously aware that these demonstrations are going on and through a spokesman put out a statement, spokesman Blair Jones saying, quote, our constitution guarantees the right to peacefully express one's views and the men and women in our military are fighting to bring the people Iraq the same rights and freedoms. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: All right, Kathleen Koch from the White House, thanks so much.

A few facts now about the Iraq war, it began with U.S. air attacks on March 20th of 2003. Because of the time difference that was the evening of Mach 19th here in the U.S. 3,211 U.S. military personnel have died since the war began. 2,603 of those deaths came as a result of enemy action. 18 other coalition partners have suffered fatalities as well. Among those countries, Britain has the highest fatality count with more than 130 deaths. U.S. public support for the War has been dwindling. A new CNN/opinion research corporation poll shows, that only 35 percent of Americans now think the situation in Iraq was worth going to war for, down from 68 percent back in 2003.

Kidnapping, torture and murder, this weekend on an all new CNN Special investigations Unit. The "Brutality of Rogue Shia Militia" secretly operating within the Iraqi government security forces. Are they putting U.S. troops in danger? And, can they be stopped? Don't miss an all new CNN's SIU "Death Squads" Saturday and Sunday night 8:00 eastern.

A cavalry rides to the rescue. In Afghanistan's eastern Kunar Province, these army pictures show troops delivering food, medicine, clothes and even toys to the families in need there. It's a joint project between the U.S. military and local government. Army spokesman says they're building something very special there.

WHITIFIELD: No St. Patrick's Day celebrations in parts of the northeast this Weekend. No, no, old man winter had a few other ideas for folks there.

JESSICA MOKHIBER, CAPITAL NEWS 9: I'm Jessica Mokhiber in Albany New York where we're dealing with more than one foot of snow on this St. Patrick's Day. I'll have more on that coming up after the break. But first, here's a look at weather with Jacqui Jeras.

(WEATHER REPOT) WHITFIELD: All right, we look forward to that. And before you feed your dog or cat today you'd want to check the label. We'll tell you why, straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Happening right now Iraq war protests across the U.S. this weekend. Demonstrators are gathering in Washington and in others cities marking the fourth anniversary of the invasion of Iraq. Monday is the actual anniversary.

And Ireland's patron saints giving Americans reason to celebrate. St. Patrick's Day parades and parties on tap today from Boston to L.A., one of the nation's most festive celebrations, the annual parade in Savannah, Georgia.

So in four days it will be spring. Oh, really? Well, winter holds on in the northeastern part of the U.S., snow, sleet, freezing rain, and a lot of wind. Just look at poor Jessica Mokhiber right there with Capital News 9 joining us live from Albany, New York, where it looks very, very cold. Looks like you're staying cozy as best you can.

MOKHIBER: As best as we can, that's right Fredricka. Like you said, I'm here in Albany, New York, where we are dealing with more than one foot of snow on this St. Patrick's Day. Now, this is our second holiday storm of 2007. The first one being back on Valentine's Day where the entire region was clobbered with snow and we are once again. As you can see here, there is a tremendous amount of snow already up to my knees. But now the plow is coming through. It's even deeper. I mean, this snow is definitely feet deep. I am up to my thighs at this point in snow. You know, just a few days ago here in the capital region of New York State we thought that we were in the clear. We thought spring was just around the corner and it is technically, but we still have a lot of melting out to do. Our St. Patrick's Day parade was postponed until next Saturday because of all this snow. It was just going to be a little bit harder for people to get down the streets. But, you know, this is the northeast and we've come to expect just about anything here. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: Yeah, and you guys are used to snow, but even on a day like this and, sorry it seems that these big snowstorms seem to hit all of your holidays, St. Patty's Day, Valentine's Day. But folks would rather stay inside and take the notice. Stay off the roads.

MOKHIBER: Sounds about right.

WHITFIELD: All right, Jessica Mokhiber, thanks so much of Capital News 9 in Albany, New York.

Well other parts of the northeast also in the deep freeze this St. Paddy's Day weekend. It's hard to tell where you're heading on this snowy Connecticut highway. Live pictures right now or maybe not, taped pictures, how about that. Well the weather is so nasty in Connecticut, the city of Hartford postponed its St. Paddy's Day parade as well. The icy mess also causing headaches for thousands of air travelers. Airlines cancelled more than 1400 flights, starting yesterday. It's ugly. No good traveling out there no matter which way you look at it. Just stay indoors. Find a nice little fireplace, Jacqui, sounds good. Hot cocoa maybe.

(WEATHER REPORT)

WHITFIELD: The U.S. attorney general under pressure to resign. The latest twists and turns in the controversial firings of federal prosecutors.

Plus this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VALERIE PLAME: I found out very early in the morning when my husband came in and dropped the newspaper on the bed and said, he did it. And I quickly turned and read the article and I felt like I had been hit in the gut.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Speaking up for the first time, outed CIA operative Valerie Plame Wilson on the leak that crushed her career, coming up in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: So what's clicking your interest at cnn.com this weekend? Take a look. Pet food maker, Menu Foods recalling millions of cans and foiled pouches of dog and cat food. Ten animals have died from kidney failure. The recall includes store brands sold by Wal- Mart, Safeway and Kroger. Also the national brands IAMS and Eukanuba.

A student teacher affair takes a deadly turn in Knoxville, Tennessee. Police have charged the man 31-year-old Eric McLean, this man, with first degree murder. They say he shot and killed the 18- year-old boy who was having an affair with his wife, a high schoolteacher.

And free, did somebody say free? The tiny town of Anderson, Alaska, holding a modern day land give away. Dozens of plots are up for grabs. To claim yours just put down a $500 deposit by Monday and you got to bring a hammer. You'll also have to build a house by 2009.

And you knew it was coming, the movie version of the fast life and tragic death of Anna Nicole Smith. Producers say the film could be out by June. Casting for the lead role opens next week.

Prosecutors fired. Here's where things stand. The attorney general's chief of staff, Kyle Sampson, now disputing the government's reason for his resignation. The Justice Department says Sampson failed to tell the attorney general and others that he was talking to the White House about the prosecutors. Sampson says, not so. He says he quit because he, quote, let the attorney general down. He suggests his contacts with the White House were well-known within Justice. Democrats charge Gonzales fired eight U.S. attorneys last year for political reasons. To show otherwise and get to the bottom of all of this the White House promised to turn over more documents to Congress on Friday. Instead it will now be Monday.

Also, the White House now says it's not sure that former counsel Harriet Miers was the one who got the ball rolling on the dismissals. Press secretary Tony Snow citing, quote, hazy memories.

Alberto Gonzales, some say it's time for the U.S. attorney general to go. Our legal experts will look at the controversial firings of federal prosecutors straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

And going public for the first time, an outed CIA operative answers questions about the leak that exposed her identity. And as CNN's Brian Todd reports, she's pointing fingers and naming names.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Valerie Plame Wilson blames the White House for blowing her CIA cover.

PLAME: My name and identity were carelessly and recklessly abused by senior government officials in both the White House and the State Department. All of them understood that I worked for the CIA.

TODD: But did anyone know she was covert or was blowing her cover just the accidental side effect of a spin war?

REP. TOM DAVIS, (R) OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE: There's no evidence here that anyone out there had any idea that it was an undercover agent.

TODD: A special prosecutor did not charge any administration officials for knowingly leaking classified information. And the leakers themselves did not testify today. But two White House security officials did.

REP. HENRY WAXMAN, (D) CHMN., OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE: Because the president said he was investigating this matter, was going to get to the bottom of it. You're not familiar -- you're not aware that any investigation took place?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not within my office, sir.

TODD: That does not sit well with Valerie Plame Wilson.

PLAME: Karl Rove clearly was involved in the leaking of my name and he still carries a security clearance to this day, despite the president's words to the contrary that he would immediately dismiss anyone who had anything to do with this.

TODD: In an interview with CNN in 2004, Rove denied that he leaked her name, but columnist Robert Novak testified in the Scooter Libby trial that Rove was one of his sources for Plame Wilson's identity. What's the point of her testimony now?

JIM VANDEHEI, POLITICO.COM: What Democrats want to do is put a human face on what's been a very long and complicated scandal. They want people to know that this wasn't just an abstract case about nothing. It's about somebody whose identity was blown and whose career was essentially ruined.

TODD (on camera): We contacted the White House about Plame Wilson's remark that the administration did nothing to discipline Karl Rove for his alleged involvement in leaking her identity. A spokesman there would not comment. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So surely you didn't miss the woman behind Valerie Plame during that testimony, the pink protestor visible to TV cameras much of the time that Plame Wilson testified before Congress on Friday. Well the shirt emblazoned with "impeach Bush now", well who is this person? Midge Potts, coming up live in the NEWSROOM at 5:00 p.m. eastern.

Security experts on alert. New concerns now that potential terrorists might be targeting school busses in this country.

And three New York police officers indicted for killing a groom to be on the day of his wedding. We'll have the latest on this story and we'll talk with our legal experts about this high profile case. All this and more straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Green party, St. Patrick's Day 2007. A springtime version and a pretty snowy one in some parts. Not here, though. Savannah looks pretty nice and sunny. A beautiful day for a parade.

Some 400,000 Irish invading the historic city this weekend. The parade second in size only to New York City. And speaking of New York, this is Syracuse, where it is cold. And folks are there, you know, braving the weather anyway. Snow on the ground. They don't mind. They're having a good time. Hardy Syracuseans. Is that really how folks like to be called? Syracuseans?

Well, they held their parade in 20-degree weather and snow. Across the state, Albany went down and postponed its parade but for good reason. Keeping folks off the dangerous roads.

Well, welcome back. Some of the stories we're following this hour. Protests against the war in Iraq. This group headed to the Pentagon this afternoon for an anti-war rally. Monday marks four years since the invasion of Iraq.

And a late season winter storm is pulling out of New England right now. The Catskills in New York State were buried under two feet of snow.

And are terrorists targeting school buses? An alarming warning from the FBI and Homeland Security.

Our justice correspondent Kelli Arena reports on a potential new threat on today's CNN security watch. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This bulletin says some school districts have reported an unusual increase in the number of foreign nationals that are seeking positions as school bus drivers. "FBI investigators have revealed that a number of those applicants had other connections to or sympathized with known terrorist groups."

It's not saying that these people are terrorists. And that's an important distinction. The bulletin does go on to say, though, the most troublesome to investigators were these individuals who the FBI reported had expressed an interest in the terrorist use of explosives.

And that's important because historically terrorists preferred to use large vehicles to conduct their attacks. Now, at this point this is just a concern. The bulletin says that there's no information indicating that these individuals are involved in terrorist plots or ever would be.

FBI spokesman Richard Cocoa (ph) insists that parents and children have nothing to worry about. He says that this bulletin was sent out to educate law enforcement about trends that federal authorities are seeing. So they would be on the lookout for suspicious activity. Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And CNN security keeps a close up to date watch of safety. Stay tuned for us day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

It's an anxious weekend in New York. A grand jury has been investigating the police shooting death of a bridegroom to be on his wedding day. Indictments are to be announced Monday. But attorneys are already saying three officers will face charges. Our legal experts will discuss the case in a moment.

But first, CNN's Allan Chernoff has this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The grand jury that met right here is going to be handed up three indictments against the three police officers who took the most shots at the car of Sean Bell, the man who was to be married later that day. The indictments to be handed up, detective Michael Oliver, 31 shots taken. Detective Gescard Isnora, 11 shots. And detective Marc Cooper, four shots.

The exact charges are to be revealed on Monday. But the head of the detectives' union said, this decision will have a chilling affect on the New York City Police Department.

MICHAEL PALLADINO, DETECTIVES ENDOWMENT ASSOCIATION: The message that's being sent now is that even though you're acting in good faith and pursuant to your lawful duties, there is no room, no margin for error. And they want to indict our officers and they have done that and I firmly disagree with it. But let me just say this, the only thing that's been done today is they have been indicted. They have been convicted of nothing. They have simply been indicted.

CHERNOFF: Indeed, one of the attorneys pointed out this is only the very beginning of the legal process. The detectives will plead not guilty, and these cases will most definitely go to court. So a jury would have to convict.

So, of course, again, the beginning of the entire legal process, the exact charges to be revealed Monday morning, 11:00. District attorney Richard Brown will have the details then.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Well, let's ask our legal experts about this high- profile case. Avery Friedman is a civil rights attorney and law professor. Good to see you, Avery.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hi, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And Richard Herman is a New York criminal defense attorney and law professor. Good to see you as well, Richard.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hey, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, so Richard, let's begin with you. This is right if in your backyard. So there are indictments. What kind of charges are you expecting to follow?

HERMAN: Well, Fred, what's going to happen is this case is going to go to trial but it's not going to go to trial for probably a year or so and it's definitely not going to go to trial in New York City.

WHITFIELD: No?

HERMAN: It's probably going to be up in Albany like the last trial was. There is definitely going to be a change of venue. This was only an indictment. It's a mere allegation. That is it. And we're a long way from a conviction in this case. The grand jury just voted that it was more likely than not that perhaps a crime was committed.

But it did not rule there was a crime and this has to be a trial and the burden of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt. And it's not the question of 50 shots, it's one shot because if one shot was reasonable, these officers are going to walk. And under this fact pattern, Fred, it's going to be very hard to convict these guys.

WHITFIELD: Interesting, OK, Avery, so more likely than not a crime was committed. So why wouldn't they reveal what the charges -- I mean, what has to be worked out?

FRIEDMAN: Well, what we're going to see is, frankly, by the end of the day on Friday it was impossible to gather all the attorneys, all the police, all the people involved. And remember, this is red hot in New York. So they're going to gather everyone. We're going to hear that press conference at 11:00. But the idea of this being merely an indictment is actually amazing to say because this is a big deal.

WHITFIELD: Yeah.

FRIEDMAN: Michael Oliver, one of the three cops who was indicted, fired 31 shots, fired 15, dropped the magazine, put a new one in and shot another 16 rounds. If you study NYPD statistics for the year 2006, all the police in New York shot less than 500, fired less than 500. This is a huge deal.

WHITFIELD: And we're talking about the target being an unarmed person.

FRIEDMAN: Right. Exactly right. So this is a very big deal. It's not merely an indictment. It is a big, big deal.

HERMAN: Avery, this is merely an indictment. That's the problem in the United States. When someone gets indicted everyone has them convicted. There's a burden of proof here and they're going to have to sustain it. The officers' defense was the car was aiming towards them. They've felt their lives and the lives of ...

FRIEDMAN: Fifty shots, Richard? Fifty shots? Come on.

WHITFIELD: How will NYPD try to justify 50 shots?

I mean, the argument is excessive force versus, you know, there was just cause to unload 50 shots on an unarmed man. How will they try to prove that that was justifiable?

HERMAN: Fred, they're going to say in the heat of passion, in the heat of this environment where this car was approaching them ...

WHITFIELD: And the reloading?

FRIEDMAN: Ridiculous.

HERMAN: ... one officer thought he saw them reaching for a gun, a magazine was unloaded, another one. It happened in less than ten seconds. Thirty-one shots.

FRIEDMAN: And you know what? Oliver told a supervisor shortly thereafter that he didn't even think he fired any shots. I mean, it's a preposterous position. We agree they are innocent until proven guilty but these guys are in a lot of trouble and it is much more than a mere indictment. It is a big deal.

WHITFIELD: So why -- for good reason, then e this case is going to receive a lot more scrutiny than say the Abner Luema (ph) case which really was dealing with the assault and Amadou Diallo case, which was a case of a man being, you know, hit with 41 bullets.

FRIEDMAN: Forty-one, right.

WHITFIELD: And those officers were acquitted. So this really has reached new heights, though, hasn't it, in terms of what the expectations are in New York City, where the line is drawn in between this so, quote, unquote, license to kill that some people believe New York police have.

FRIEDMAN: There is a mentality, not with all but some police officers who argue it's better to be tried by 12 than carried by six. I hope that's not the case here. We don't know. But again, they're innocent until proven guilty. This is a very serious manner. I don't know how one can justify 50 shots. This is going to be a tough defense.

HERMAN: Hey Fred, in the last ...

WHITFIELD: OK. Quickly, Richard?

HERMAN: In the last 15 years, I think only three police officers faced convictions for illegal use of their guns. It's going to be a very difficult case to prove. And it's a huge ...

WHITFIELD: And this really may be precedent setting on a lot of levels. Right?

FRIEDMAN: Right.

WHITFIELD: Potentially.

HERMAN: Well, it's going to be a chilling affect on the New York City Police Department. That's for sure.

FRIEDMAN: No, not officers that know what they're doing. I don't agree with that.

HERMAN: In the heat of passion, Avery, you've got to make a split second move.

FRIEDMAN: I don't disagree, Richard, but ...

WHITFIELD: We're going to be talking about this case again probably over next year as you were mentioning, Richard, that it will take before it actually goes to trial. But we're going take a short break because ...

FRIEDMAN: And we'll disagree all the way. I guarantee.

WHITFIELD: Yeah. That's OK. We like that.

That's why we invite you back all the time.

So the next case we want to discuss is about whether he should leave, whether he should stay, does U.S. attorney general Alberto Gonzales have to resign from office or should he stay right where he is? Our legal experts will be back in the NEWSROOM to discuss that matter.

Plus, guess who's coming to town soon. Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. He wants 40 visas for himself and his entourage for the visit to the UN. Will he get them? All that straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: The U.S. attorney general under fire because eight federal prosecutors were fired. Some lawmakers want Alberto Gonzales to be shown the door for what they call a politically-motivated purge.

The federal prosecutors served at the pleasure of the president and can fired at will. So let's ask our legal experts what all the fuss is about.

Once again, Avery Friedman and Richard Herman. All right, gentlemen, so Gonzales has been rather contrite. He said mistakes were made. He's not necessarily denying that there was something behind this firing of nine U.S. attorneys. So who can hold him accountable and to what extent, Avery?

FRIEDMAN: Well, the difficulty here is that there's nothing unlawful as a general rule for the president to get rid of U.S. attorneys. The difficulty here is that since January 6, 2005, over two years, we've had three different reasons. It's not against the law to get rid of them. It's against the law to lie to Congress. And the most important thing here, Fredricka, is that subpoenas are going to start flying. And then we're going to open up this whole thing.

So the bottom line here is we don't have an answer. We get explanations like mistake, hazy memory, this is very serious stuff. So we're just at the beginning of where this case is going.

WHITFIELD: Richard?

HERMAN: Fred, "Oh, what a tangled web we we've when we first seek to deceive." You and Avery and I have discussed over the last couple of years if you're going to speak to law enforcement, you better tell the truth because that's the crime, lying to law enforcement. Martha Stewart, Libby ...

WHITFIELD: And he's the highest attorney of the land.

FRIEDMAN: Right.

HERMAN: Exactly. He has not been watching our show, obviously, because it looks like he gave different versions of what happened here. He lied to Congress. And granted, not many prosecutions are brought against people in Gonzales' shoes, I can assure you of that.

But it's just wrong. And when they start saying it was performance related, that's when these U.S. attorneys got their hope up and that's when they got excited about this. And it's just a disaster. And it looks like Gonzales is going to get terminated.

WHITFIELD: He or nobody else can kind of clean this up and say, OK, all you guys I let go and women I let go, come on back and let's be one big happy family again. Mistakes were made. It's just not enough. It has to be taken to the next level? HERMAN: It doesn't happen that way. They're out. The question is are they going to bring actions? Remember, they've can be let go for no reason. But the White House - or the Justice Department has said it's performance related.

That's very serious I especially for a high-level attorney. So there are possibilities or problems there. More importantly, actually Richard is absolutely right on this. The fact is when you go before the Congress, you'd better make sure that you're prepared and you have the facts. And right now we have not see seen that coming from the White House nor from the Department of Justice.

And Fred, what's incredible is that the idea supposedly originated with Harriet Miers, the White House counsel, and then Gonzales. These two people ...

WHITFIELD: Both of them came so close ...

HERMAN: Just a few years ago ...

WHITFIELD: Supreme Court - I know what you're going to say. I'm finishing your sentences like we're married. Sorry.

HERMAN: It's incredible. It's incredible.

WHITFIELD: Is that frightening to you organization Avery?

FRIEDMAN: Perish the thought. Listen, listen, you're right. Both of them were actually being considered for appointments to the U.S. Supreme Court. Both were part of the White House.

WHITFIELD: Yeah.

FRIEDMAN: But the bottom line is, it really surfaced when Sampson, who was the chief of staff of Gonzales, basically resigned and he wasn't brought down by Delilah, he was brought down by the facts.

WHITFIELD: What's better for the Justice Department, for him to be fired or for him to resign, Avery?

FRIEDMAN: Resign, he's out, he's finished.

HERMAN: He's going to resign and the resignations are not over with this Bush administration.

WHITFIELD: Ouch. All right, gentlemen.

HERMAN: Rumsfeld, Gonzales, it's just beginning.

FRIEDMAN: All right. All right.

WHITFIELD: OK. Well, so is our dialogue but we'll resume at another time.

FRIEDMAN: Right. WHITFIELD: Thanks so much. Have a great weekend.

FRIEDMAN: Nice to see you.

HERMAN: Happy St. Patrick's Day, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Happy St. Patty's Day.

FRIEDMAN: You too.

WHITFIELD: All right. Well, let's talk about Iran. The president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says new UN sanctions won't have one iota of affect on his country's nuclear plans.

And while he seems to snub his nose at the Security Council, he wants another chance to come to America and make his case. Our State Department correspondent Zain Verjee has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's making a grab for the megaphone. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad wants to go back to the United Nations in New York and tell the world why Iran should have a nuclear program.

Iran's president has asked for almost 40 visas. The U.S. has to hold its nose and help.

SEAN MCCORMACK, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We are going to make every effort to expedite the processing of these visa applications.

VERJEE: The U.S. is in a tough spot. It's a free speech champion and the host country of the UN, so it has to accept America haters and stomach their insults.

Nikita Khrushchev pounded the table in dramatic Cold War theater. Fidel Castro condemned what he called U.S. imperialism. Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez mocked President Bush at the UN last year.

PRES. HUGO CHAVEZ, VENEZUELA (through translator): Yesterday the devil came here.

VERJEE: And now President Ahmadinejad wants to come. He's within his rights to argue Iran's case at the UN since it faces new sanctions by the Security Council. The world wants Iran to stop enriching uranium which can be used for a nuclear bomb. Iran says its program is only to generate electricity. But Iran's flaunting its policy printing an atomic symbol on its money. The U.S. says, reverse course.

MCCORMACK: Wouldn't it be the right moment for President Ahmadinejad to seize the opportunity and to say we are going to reach out and take the hand that has been extended to us with the offer of negotiation? Because that offer is still open.

VERJEE (on camera): Ahmadinejad has called the sanctions plan torn pieces of paper. The State Department says rhetoric like that just doesn't help. Zain Verjee, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Well, it gives new meaning to the term, "you silly goose."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know how and why this happens. But nature is a funny thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Yes, it is. Some of the best pictures of the day flying into the NEWSROOM. Got company?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Well, can't fly? Might as well sleep. This video just in from our affiliate tells the tale. Snow in the Northeast canceling flights in Orlando, Florida. It will be a while, might as well snooze, get comfortable.

Well, how about this combination, a goose, a hound and a speed boat. Another mystery of nature takes flight over a Minnesota lake, Ken Speake with affiliate station KARE reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEN SPEAKE, KARE-TV CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Dan Steffan says the first time this happened, he thought Daisy would leave, after all that would be only natural. But she flew them as now close and fast until she decided to stop.

You see, daisy appears to know when she has it good. And sometimes it's more fun to just ride on the boat rather than fly beside it.

But to see her fly so close that Dan Stephan can reach out and touch her, it is one of those things that cannot happen, but does.

DAN STEFFAN, FRIENDS WITH GOOSE: Well, it is odd. I don't know how -- how and why this happens. But nature is a funny thing. And this is a silly goose.

SPEAKE: But that silly goose appears to have broken the lines which separate the species. That silly goose has become friends with a dog named Sam and a person who could very well be Mother Goose.

STEFFAN: Good girl.

SPEAKE: Ken Speake, KARE-11 News, Cross Lake.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: My official favorite story of the day. Love that. Well if you suspected your unborn child was gay and there was a way to change that, would you? Coming up in the NEWSROOM at 4:00 p.m. Eastern, the outrage over suggestions that homosexuality could be reversed in the womb.

But first the fatal bus journey of the Bluffton University baseball team, CNN's SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT takes a look at how it might have been prevented.

A check of the day's headlines is next, and then CNN PRESENTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com