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Nancy Grace
Bahamian Judge Reportedly Orders DNA Test for Anna Nicole`s Baby, Stern Appeals
Aired March 20, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news on Anna Nicole Smith. One judge on the case busted for drugs, while another judge in the Bahamas finally orders a DNA swab from the covergirl`s 6-month-old baby girl, her only descendent. That baby set to inherit an estimated $475 million estate. All three parties in court today, the mother, the boyfriend, the lawyers. Nicole Smith`s own mother, Virgie Arthur, reappears on the scene, demanding guardianship of the baby girl, all the while Arthur gathering evidence that lawyer Howard K. Stern is unfit to be a parent, Arthur trying to take the baby away.
And tonight, musical genius multi-millionaire Phil Spector, day two jury selection in his murder one trial. Spector shows up in a new wig with a new wife to battle charges he murdered an actress, Lana Clarkson, with a single shot there in Spector`s own mansion on their very first date. Right! Likely story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Four years and numerous hairstyles later, Phil Spector has a front-row seat for jury selection in his own murder trial. The (INAUDIBLE) music producer is accused of killing actress Lana Clarkson back in 2003.
We`re looking at new video here of Phil Spector, and he has straight hair. I mean, normally, he`s got this crazy mop of hair. What do you think? Do you think that this is an attempt to sort of tame down his image? Because he definitely looked pretty wild before.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, I don`t know how else to put it. He`s a nut. And everybody in Hollywood has known that for a long time. He`s a genius, but he`s a nut.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Spector told authorities Lana Clarkson`s death was, quote, "an accidental suicide." What do you make of that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I mean, I think it`s an oxymoron, number one. You don`t have an accidental suicide, by definition. But the bottom line is that Phil Spector is saying that Lana Clarkson put the gun in her mouth and it fired. And he has to deal with allegedly telling the limo driver, who was outside, I think I just killed somebody, as well as making a similar comment to cops. So that`s really the issue. You know, at whose hands did Lana Clarkson die? It`s going to be an unbelievably entertaining trial.
PHIL SPECTOR, RECORD PRODUCER: The actions of the Hitler-like district attorney and storm-trooping henchmen to seek an indictment against me and censor all means of me getting my evidence and the truth out are reprehensible, unconscionable and despicable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Yes, that`s right, the police are the bad guys, not the person accused of murder. Is justice delayed justice denied? We`ll take you to LA shortly.
Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight.
First, to a Bahamian judge who orders a DNA swab.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Can we set the record straight? Is there a deal at all here?
LARRY BIRKHEAD, ANNA NICOLE`S FORMER BOYFRIEND: No deal. This is not a game show.
QUESTION: How do you feel today (INAUDIBLE)
QUESTION: Are you confident that you`re the father?
BIRKHEAD: I`ve always said there`s no doubt in my mind.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The big issue of the day is going to be, especially since Howard K. Stern is in there right now, is he going to consent to DNA testing, or is his side contesting the theories that Dr. Baird (ph) is presenting about what I think we can believe would be non- invasiveness of DNA testing with a buccal swab manner (ph).
JUDGE LARRY SEIDLIN, BROWARD COUNTY, FLORIDA: When you look at this logically, in the center of this French labyrinth, in the center of this maze, is Dannielynn. What is in her best welfare? What is in her best interests?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight we go live to the Bahamas. Standing by, Court TV`s Jean Casarez. Jean, what happened?
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Good evening, Nancy. Well, the hearing lasted about two-and-a-half hours, and what we have learned is that a DNA buccal swab test will take place tomorrow of Dannielynn. However, Howard K. Stern is mounting an emergency appeal, as we speak, with the court of appeals here in Nassau, Bahamas.
GRACE: Jean, who was in court today? And am I correct that Howard Stern -- Howard K. Stern actually opposed the DNA test yet again?
CASAREZ: That`s what it appears as though. It appears that he did not consent because he is appealing the directive, or the order. Now, who was in court today? First of all, you had Virgie Arthur, the grandmother of Dannielynn. You very surprisingly had Howard K. Stern arrive in court. And I say surprisingly, Nancy, because he was not here on Friday, just days ago, for the hearing. And you had Larry Birkhead, who is actually the plaintiff in this action, saying that there has been a fraud, and it`s the fact that Stern is the name on the birth certificate.
GRACE: Take a listen to this, Jean.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIRKHEAD: I don`t get up in the morning and say, Who can I fight today about this? I`m just doing what I have to do for my daughter. And that`s why I`m here. You know, that`s why I`ll go wherever I have to go, if it`s here, somewhere else, wherever, you know. You just go where -- if a judge is going to listen to me, and you know, I`m going to go there.
I`m not aware of any negotiations, you know. My daughter`s not for sale, and my daughter`s -- I mean, I think what -- there were some things mentioned back and forth about a resolution, and that`s -- all that`s still, you know, out there. And I`m just, you know -- the only resolution or any kind of deal that we`ve made is, you know, how quick can I get my daughter, and when will the DNA test be made?
One of the reasons that it`s become the circus is that the tests -- no one`s brought the baby forward to do a test. So they`re -- in essence, by holding the baby out, and (INAUDIBLE) you know, holding yourself out as the father, if you`re not the father, then you`re really kind of creating the circus. There`s one way to end it. I`m prepared to take the test. I`ve always been prepared to take the test. And if everybody wants to take the test and get it over with, then we have no problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You know, I want to go out to Howard K. Stern`s attorney joining us tonight, James Neavitt. We`ve spoken to him many times before. He`s been taking your calls. Mr. Neavitt, this is what I don`t understand. All along, you told us that if a judge, a Bahamian judge, ordered DNA tests, that Howard K. Stern, your client, would submit to that. Well, a Bahamian judge has ordered it, but now your client, Howard K. Stern, has filed an immediate appeal.
JAMES NEAVITT, ATTORNEY FOR HOWARD K. STERN: Nancy, I don`t -- I can`t comment in regards to what the Bahamian court did. We`re under a gag order. I can tell you that whenever a proper order is made, Howard`s going to obey any order of the court. He`s always said that. He`s always intended to do that. You know, the court in California ordered that Dannielynn`s DNA be collected, and in the middle of that, Anna died. And now we`re in a situation where we have to get the proper...
GRACE: Mr. Neavitt
NEAVITT: ... judicial authority for handling that.
GRACE: Mr. Neavitt, no offense, I know that you are a veteran trial lawyer. I know you`ve been around the block, as have I, in many, many courtrooms. But what you just said doesn`t even make sense. You said if a judge issued an order for a DNA test, Stern, your client, would comply. You`ve already got a California judge ordering it and a Bahamian judge ordering it.
NEAVITT: Right. First of all, you don`t have a California court ordering my client to submit Dannielynn for testing. It was against Anna. In the Bahamas...
GRACE: But now your client has -- now your client has the baby.
NEAVITT: My client has the baby, and the Bahama courts are dealing with it. I can`t tell you what they`re saying. I can`t...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I didn`t ask you to tell me what the court said in the Bahamas. Jean Casarez has already told me that. What I`m asking you is, all along, your client has represented -- and I know you`re stuck with the client you got, OK? There`s nothing you can do about that. But your client has represented from day one, if a judge ordered DNA from Dannielynn, who`s set to inherit $475 million -- this is covergirl Anna Nicole Smith`s only descendent -- that he would comply. He has the baby. A California court has ordered DNA. Now a Bahama court has ordered it. What`s the problem?
NEAVITT: First of all, I can`t say that a Bahama court ordered it. When the Bahama court orders it, he will comply.
GRACE: OK. Let me go back for clarification with Court TV`s Jean Casarez. I`ve never known her to lie before, especially on national television. Jean, am I crazy? Didn`t a Bahamian judge say -- and I`m waving it around. This is all it is, people. It`s nothing to be afraid of! It`s only a blood test. It`s called a buccal oral swab. You simply dab it along the inside of the mouth, the oral cavity, and that`s your DNA test.
What happened in court today, Jean? Recap.
CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, whether you want to call it an order or whether you want to go by the law and call it a direction, it appears as though -- and we have confirmed through our sources -- that that is going to take place tomorrow. However, an appeal is being mounted. And I think the appeal would be based on the fact that you cannot order a DNA test in the Bahamas, that Howard K. Stern, as the physical guardian of the child, can consent or not give his consent for the invasiveness of whatever the procedure is to the minor child that is within his control. And I think that`s what the appeal would be based upon, historically based on common law with the court of appeals here in the Bahamas.
GRACE: Back to you, Mr. Neavitt. This is Howard K. Stern`s long-time attorney. Mr. Neavitt, why won`t your client consent to the DNA test? This is crazy! First we couldn`t bury the woman, now we can`t figure out who the father is of her only descendent.
NEAVITT: Nancy, the issue is not whether my client is going to take the test. He will take the test when he`s ordered to do so. You`re asking me to violate a gag order and confirm or deny that that`s the order. You have people telling you this is what they heard. Who did they hear it from? Everybody that`s in that courtroom is under a gag order. If they heard it from somebody in the courtroom, they`re violating a court order. I`m not going to do that.
GRACE: If there wasn`t a judge`s order today, Mr. Neavitt, why is your client appealing that directive to an appeals court? What is he appealing?
NEAVITT: The only way an appeal will be known is if it came through somebody that was violating the gag order. I`m not going to do that.
GRACE: OK. You know what? In addition to being a veteran trial lawyer, Mr. Neavitt is apparently an expert dancer because he just danced right out of that question. But hey, we know what you`re doing, Neavitt.
NEAVITT: I have to. You know I have to. You know I have to.
GRACE: OK. Let`s go to David Caplan...
NEAVITT: You know I have to, Nancy.
GRACE: Let`s go to David Caplan with "Star" magazine. David, on the other end of the universe, you`ve got another judge busted for pot. What the hey`s going on with this case?
(LAUGHTER)
DAVID CAPLAN, "STAR" MAGAZINE: It`s a great story!
GRACE: I certainly didn`t know it by looking at him on the air.
CAPLAN: Judge Lawrence Korda, who was the first judge who dealt with what to do with Anna Nicole`s body in Fort Lauderdale -- on Sunday, three police officers were training in a Hollywood, Florida, park, and they saw him smoking a marijuana cigarette under a tree. They had no choice but to be, like, Hey, what`s going on? And they slapped him with the misdemeanor citation.
GRACE: There`s the judge. Hold on. Hold on, Mr. Caplan.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: We`re showing the viewers the judge straining to read. Everything a little blurry, Judge? Just have a big, fat doobie? Go ahead, David Caplan.
CAPLAN: So he was slapped with a misdemeanor citation, and he is going to have to go to court, but this time not as a judge, but as someone who`s being a bad judge. So this is very interesting. And he has a bit of a shady past. I even heard from other sources at "Star" magazine that this guy even frequents strip clubs, as well, so...
GRACE: Well, the last time I looked, Mr. Caplan, that`s not a felony or a misdemeanor.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: To you, Dr. Saunders. We need a shrink on this one. Not only was he smoking a joint, according to police, but he was doing it in a public kid park. Now, that`s what I find incredible. Half of America is having a joint right now, but in a park? A judge in a park, clearly flagrantly breaking the law?
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Two possibilities. He was high before he went into the park because, obviously, the judge`s judgment is seriously impaired, or he felt that he was above the law. Both instances are horrifying. And this man should be nowhere near a bench.
GRACE: Well, I don`t want to use the word horrifying for smoking a joint. Of course, it`s clearly against the law. But I try to save horrifying for murder, child molestation, rape, arson, things like that.
And speaking of murder, to Tom O`Neil with "In Touch Weekly." New allegations regarding homicide in this case have arisen from none other than Anna Nicole Smith`s biological father.
TOM O`NEIL, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": I`m confused here, Nancy. What we`ve got is -- and we`re breaking it in tomorrow`s issue -- is we have Jack Harding, who is a private investigator, who was the guy who Daniel went to see right before his death, and you know, with accusations that Howard was acting like a Svengali and feeding drugs to his mom. Jack Harding now has officially said that he suspects foul play as a result of his own investigation here. And not only that, he says there`s an ex-CIA investigator as part of this team, who also suspects foul play. And they worry that Dannielynn is next or could be next.
The allegation here, without saying it`s Howard Stern, is that this is all for money, which is what Virgie Arthur has said from the very beginning, of course. She said, My daughter and my grandson were killed for money. And they believe -- what he told us was that there could be residual drugs in Dannielynn`s system, that if she died of drugs next, that it wouldn`t be too suspicious.
GRACE: And Tom, that`s on top of what the biological dad is saying. He is very concerned that -- as I recall, his quote saying, One person`s taking the drugs away from her, I guess he was talking about Birkhead, and somebody else is, quote, "shoving drugs down her throat." Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD K. STERN, ANNA NICOLE`S ATTORNEY/COMPANION: Anna Nicole was on prescription medication at different times. When you say drugs, I don`t want to give the impression she was using anything illegal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was she abusing these drugs? Was she taking too many of them?
STERN: Look, I`m not a doctor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prior to the last five months?
STERN: She did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And are you aware that methadone is a narcotic?
STERN: Sir, I know it`s a prescription medicine. It may or may not be a narcotic.
Anna, in a lot of ways, always thought she was going to die young, and she said that she thought she was going to be like Marilyn Monroe. So she thought she was going to die when -- I forget if the age is 36 or 37. So we discussed it prior to that. And then Anna also thought she was going to die when she was giving birth to Dannielynn. So Anna did talk about death. She talked about death really from the time that I met her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Not only that, even ordered a dress to be worn in her own casket.
Out to a special guest, John O`Quinn, joining us tonight. This is her mom, Virgie Arthur`s, lawyer. John, welcome. Thank you for being with us, along with Mr. Neavitt. John, what do you think of the biological dad of Anna Nicole Smith coming out and making allegations about homicide?
JOHN O`QUINN, ATTORNEY FOR VIRGIE ARTHUR: Well, he did an investigation through, apparently, a well-regarded investigator, and they reached that conclusion, and others are reaching the same conclusions. Most people I talk to on the inside think say they think that there probably is -- Stern probably had something to do with it. Who is Stern? Stern`s a lawyer, a trial lawyer. He started off representing Anna Nicole to win $400 million. Greed sometimes just takes people over.
And what about this little dance we had about the hearing today? Stern says, his lawyer says, There was no order. (INAUDIBLE) there was none. Then why is there an appeal? You don`t need to appeal unless there was an order. This is all wacko, what they`re saying. They`re lying. They`re...
GRACE: You know, Mr. O`Quinn -- you know, you make a lot of sense, in light of the fact that you`re actually a lawyer. You`re absolutely right. What can you appeal, if there`s not a judicial order?
I want to go to Dr. Joshua Perper, the chief medical examiner there in Broward County, who along with a team performed the autopsy on covergirl Anna Nicole Smith. Dr. Perper, it`s great to see you again. Question. When will we finally learn the cause of death?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, BROWARD COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, I believe that by the end of the week, I`ll have all the information which I need, and I believe the beginning of the next week, I`ll disclose it.
GRACE: Dr. Perper, I`m going to hold you to that.
Quick break. But I want to go to tonight`s "Case Alert." Found alive -- a 12-year-old Boy Scout goes missing in the rugged North Carolina Blue Ridge mountains. Twelve-year-old Michael Auberry wandered away from the Scout troop`s campsite. Rescue teams and search dogs followed his scent, footprints and a used mess kit, discovering the little boy within a mile- and-a-half of the campsite, Auberry now reunited with his parents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have found Michael. He is OK. They`re getting ready to walk out now. (INAUDIBLE) did you copy that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I copy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIRKHEAD: I don`t get up in the morning and say, Who can I fight today about this? I`m just doing what I have to do for my daughter. And that`s why I`m here. You know, that`s why I`ll go wherever I have to go, if it`s here, somewhere else, wherever, you know. You just go where -- if a judge is going to listen to me, and you know, I`m going to go there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. Today a court in the Bahamas allegedly orders DNA tests on 6-month-old Dannielynn, the only descendent to covergirl Anna Nicole Smith`s fortune, now estimated at approximately $475 million.
Out to the lines. Gunilla in Arizona. Hi, Gunilla.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Nancy. I`m listening to some of the most brilliant minds in the legal world here, and just to hear the word child protective services. Why is not this baby picked up and worry about the paternity after? After all, she`s surrounded by people whom were in a room in which a young man died before his time, a mother died before her time. Take the child away. There could be someone dangerous. It could be criminal, could be accidental. But in the meanwhile, I want to see that child safe in the arms of somebody that was not part of this whole mess.
GRACE: You know what, Gunilla? You are not the first to ask that question. IN fact, I asked it of Jean Casarez today. Jean, what can you tell me about the Bahama equivalent of DFACS, department of family and children`s services?
CASAREZ: It`s called the Department of Social Services here. And first of all, Howard K. Stern would say that child is in loving arms right now. But I spoke with the Department of Social Services last week, and what the director told me was that she was mounting a social inquiry as directed by his lordship here in the Bahamas to do background checks on all the parties, which would be Stern, Birkhead, and also Virgie Arthur. But she said they had not mounted an investigation because nobody had filed a complaint.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If Howard K. Stern doesn`t consent to a DNA test, (INAUDIBLE) ultimate (INAUDIBLE) be a contempt of court order, meaning the ultimate result would be as if a judge had ordered a DNA test in the U.S. all along. So we`re going to have to wait and see. But of course, that`s what Larry Birkhead`s camp wants. They want that DNA test on Dannielynn.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A Bahama judge finally ordering a DNA case in the test of Anna Nicole Smith, this little baby set to inherit $475 million, Anna Nicole Smith`s only descendent. And it all boils down to this, one swab on the inside of the cheek. There`s an immediate appeal going up tonight filed by Howard K. Stern.
Jean Casarez, you just told me that there had not been a complaint filed with DFACS, department of family and children`s services, according to them. Are you sure?
CASAREZ: Well, after she told me that -- and thank you for letting me finish my answer -- I did see some letters that have been written to the Department of Social Services in regard to concerns about the welfare of the child. The date on one of the letters was following Anna Nicole Smith`s death. And I`ve been told by some confidential sources that, actually, an investigation has been going on in regard to the actual welfare of the child.
GRACE: So there is a DFACS, department of family and children`s services, investigation going on. Jean says letters have been filed questioning the health of the baby. Who filed the letters, Jean?
CASAREZ: "Parties," Nancy.
GRACE: OK, she`s not giving it up.
Let`s go out to Carolyn in Tennessee. Hi, Carolyn.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Has anybody checked to see if the physician/psychiatrist that was taking care of Anna from the time she went to the Bahamas until she died was writing and taking care of Daniel also, since he had so many prescription drugs in his body when he died?
GRACE: We`ll come back with David Caplan from "Star" magazine on that one.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Why won`t Howard Stern allow the test on the baby?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That goes back to the L.A. case. Remember, we were set to do -- it wasn`t Howard allowing it. Anna Nicole was going to have -- we were just talking about recent history. I`m going back all the way back to October. We were set to do the DNA test in the L.A. court. And Anna was going to provide that on January 23rd.
As you know, who stopped it? The guy sitting right here. Anna was perfectly willing to do it. And I went to court and got a stay of that, because we had some very serious procedural problems.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Very serious procedural problems. Lawyer talk for, "Don`t want to do it." My question, back to you, James Neavitt -- this is Howard K. Stern`s attorney -- if it`s his baby, your client`s baby, what`s he afraid of? Why all these legal gymnastics? You know, Stern should be in Cirque du Soleil, because he`s really pulling a contortion down there in the Bahamas. An immediate appeal because he doesn`t want an oral swab on the baby? The baby won`t even know what happens.
JAMES NEAVITT, HOWARD K. STERN`S ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, you know, you`re going to say I`m dancing again, but I`m not dancing. I`m trying to follow a court order that specifically tells me, and tells Howard, and tells his attorney, we cannot talk about what happens in the Bahamas court. This is not like California. This is not like Florida. It`s different there. I`m not going to violate the court order. You wouldn`t do it if you were given an order not to say anything, would you?
GRACE: Mr. Neavitt, the gag is on what happened today in court. I`m asking you about the appeal your client filed today.
NEAVITT: I don`t know that he filed an appeal. I`m not going to discuss it.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, what`s the appeal?
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Well, we understand it`s an emergency appeal, that they are doing it overnight, that they are trying to stop the DNA test from even happening. But what I understand from Bahamian lawyers, that an order to have a stay on the DNA test from occurring, which means to stop it, it would have to be an order that would come from the trial judge, which is his lordship Justice Stephen Isaacs in the Supreme Court.
GRACE: David Caplan, just before we went to break, we had a caller`s question regarding the physician ordering all of these narcotics for Anna Nicole Smith. What can you tell us?
DAVID CAPLAN, "STAR" MAGAZINE: Yes. It was her personal psychiatrist, Dr. Khristine Eroshevich, who was with Anna in the Bahamas while she was carrying Dannielynn and after her birth. She faxed a memo to Dr. Sandeep Kapoor, Anna`s doctor in California, requesting six painkillers -- it was a laundry list of drugs -- for M. Chase, which is Anna Nicole`s pseudonym.
Dr. Kapoor refused to fill it. Then Dr. Eroshevich sent it to Key Pharmacy (ph) in California. The pharmacy also denied it. So it doesn`t seem like the specific request was ever filled. And to answer the caller`s question, this was strictly for Anna Nicole Smith. There`s no evidence yet to point out that it was for her son Daniel.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us out of Salt Lake City, a veteran trial lawyer, Greg Skordas. And out of New York, defense attorney, family law attorney, Kimarie Rahill McDonald.
Welcome, colleagues. To you, Greg Skorgas, it`s very obvious what this emergency appeal is all about.
GREG SKORDAS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You`re right, it`s Howard K. Stern`s attempt to stall this off as long as possible. It`s obvious to me that he`s not the natural father of this child and that what he would like to do is spend as much time raising the child, being with the child, and mentoring, or bonding, rather, with that child so that a judge is reluctant to take it away.
On the other hand, this Larry Birkhead probably is the father of the child but hasn`t done a lick in raising the child. So is a judge going to take this child away from a man who`s spent all this time with it and put the child with the man who...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Spent all this time with it? Hello? Greg Skordas, he was in Florida three times since the baby was born that we know of, there for some big fight, wrestling or fighting bout. Remember all the photos with Anna Nicole Smith and Hulk Hogan? That was from one of the trips. Then there was this trip about purchasing a yacht called, I think, Cracker. And then there was another trip.
So I don`t know where you`re getting all this bonding time Stern is having with the baby. Did you see him holding the baby? It was like he was holding a sack of potatoes.
SKORDAS: And maybe he`s uncomfortable with the baby. But, Nancy, he certainly spent more time with the baby than just about anyone else.
GRACE: Well, you know what? I`ve got a question for you, Kimarie, why is that? Why hasn`t Birkhead had time with the baby?
KIMARIE RAHILL MCDONALD, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He hasn`t been permitted to. He`s not recognized as the biological father. Here is a gentleman that`s been stepping up repeatedly, saying, "Here I am. I want to raise this child. Please, take my DNA, and let me get a DNA swab of Dannielynn."
GRACE: And let me get into her bank account.
MCDONALD: Well, or as Howard K. Stern...
GRACE: I would love the bank account. I want to pet the bank account. I want to sing it a lullaby before it goes to bed.
MCDONALD: Well, I think all the parties involved are singing that same lullaby.
GRACE: You know what? Hold on a moment. I want to talk to John O`Quinn. He is representing Anna Nicole Smith`s mother, Virgie Arthur, who has reappeared on the scene wanting guardianship. What exactly does she want, John?
JOHN O`QUINN, ATTORNEY FOR VIRGIE ARTHUR: I want the grandmother to have involvement in raising this child, custody or joint custody, with whoever the father is.
GRACE: When she was there visiting the baby, was she allowed to hold the baby or pet the baby?
O`QUINN: No, she was denied. She requested, and Stern sternly said, "No, you can`t touch the baby!"
GRACE: Why?
O`QUINN: Because Stern is trying to control all evidence, because he knows he faces prosecution for many crimes.
GRACE: Now, what`s your basis of Stern being prosecuted for "many crimes"?
O`QUINN: Look, Stern refused to give a blood test. What is his motivation? A, does he know he`s not the father and the test will prove he`s not the father and he no longer has custody? Is it b, he doesn`t want his blood tested in any way, shape or form, so that his DNA could be traced about where they were at and when they were at certain places?
By the way, the yacht that they went over -- he used Anna Nicole`s money to buy a yacht. Find out whose name that yacht is in presently. It`s a fascinating answer.
GRACE: I take it the answer is Howard K. Stern?
O`QUINN: The company he owns.
GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines, Lana in Illinois. Hi, Lana.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. Love your show. And love you.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you.
CALLER: If Larry does turn out to be the father, does he -- can he sue Howard Stern for keeping him away from his child all this time?
GRACE: Doubtful. But, you know, let`s go to the lawyers on it. What about it, Greg Skordas? Do you see a line of cause of action there?
SKORDAS: Well, certainly he could. And he could sue Howard K. Stern for the problems that he`s put him through. But if he`s the father of this child, and he gets custody, guardianship, fatherhood, if you will, of the child, he`s going to have enough money that he doesn`t need to chase Howard K. Stern around.
GRACE: Yes, you know, and, Kimarie, Stern will always have the argument that he truly believes, and may be, the biological father, so I don`t think there`s any way that Birkhead could actually prove Stern did not believe or does not believe he`s the father.
MCDONALD: I`m surprised that Larry Birkhead is as confident as he is. Considering all the facts and all the players in this case, it`s interesting that he didn`t make a deal and he is so confident that he will be determined to be the biological father. But that doesn`t mean he`s going to get custody. That`s a whole different issue.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Millie in New York, hi, Millie.
CALLER: Hi.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
CALLER: Well, I was just wondering, doesn`t it put everybody at a disadvantage because Howard K. Stern gets to live in her house, even if she did own it? They don`t know for sure. But he gets to live in there free, on her money, with her child, and everybody else that comes to fight their case has to come and get a hotel room and pay back and forth, back and forth, and he just lounges around on her money. And I don`t see how he could do that. He`s not her husband.
GRACE: Jim Neavitt, Howard K. Stern`s attorney, is with us. Millie, what do you have to say in response to allegations your client is a free- loader? There`s no real nice way to put it.
NEAVITT: Well, you know, my client has his own money. He`s staying in the house where him and Anna stayed. And he`s the father of the child, as we`re sitting here today, until some court says differently.
GRACE: OK. Well-put.
Out to you, Tom O`Neil with "InTouch Weekly." What`s next?
TOM O`NEIL, "INTOUCH WEEKLY": Oh, my gosh, what`s next is we certainly hope that this autopsy will make a lot of things clear. And let`s hope that this appeal is turned down so we could actually have this DNA test tomorrow.
By the way, on this topic that we were just talking about, about how little Howard may or may not care actually about Dannielynn, I find one fact very fascinating, Nancy, that he has not taken this child over to the U.S. embassy.
Remember, she is not a Bahamian resident, nor is he. She is a child without a country. He could, if he really cared about this daughter -- and if it is his daughter, of course, he would have the DNA test -- but also he would have her registered with the U.S. government so that she`s protected and has all of those legal rights. He is keeping her in one corner.
GRACE: You know, that`s a really good point.
But, Jean Casarez, if he does get her U.S. citizenship, wouldn`t she have to submit to the California court ruling?
CASAREZ: That`s a good question. If she`s physically in the Bahamas, I`m not sure on that. But I talked with the U.S. embassy, and they would not confirm with me or deny to me that a registration process has occurred, so I think that`s an open-ended question right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
GRACE: You`re hearing the sound of Tina Turner, of Ike and Tina Turner, one of the many stars that this man, musical genius, Phil Spector, helped create. You can add her to the list of John Lennon, George Harrison, Ronnie and the Ronettes, a long, long list. Well, now he`s in court facing murder one charges.
Today he was sporting a new wig -- it`s the one on the right -- and a new wife to battle those murder one charges. Let`s go back out to Tom O`Neil, "InTouch Weekly." What happened?
O`NEIL: Well, it`s a shame he gave up that bride of Frankenstein wig that he had before. That was how we kind of identified him and knew he was a nut case. But I find it very interesting that this new wig is a Beatles look, Nancy. Have you noticed that? It kind of reminds you of his old music heritage, as if he`s trying to tell that jury, you know, "I love you, yeah, yeah, yeah."
GRACE: Yes, you know, and the appearance in front of a jury panel can mean a lot.
To you, Eric Leonard, you`re with KFI 640, in court today, what happened?
ERIC LEONARD, COURT REPORTER, KFI 640: Well, today ended the first round of jury selection. Three hundred potential jurors came to the criminal courts building in downtown L.A. that were part of the first round of picks for this trial. About 200 of them remain; the other 100 have been allowed to go home because of hardship reasons.
They can`t commit -- the judge says this trial could go on for three or four months from today, and that pool of 200 now have filled out questionnaires, 108 questions that probes all sorts of things, about how much they know about the case, how much of your show has been watched, how much they know about prescription drugs, gun ownership, and, of course, Phil Spector himself.
Also stapled to the back of it, a list of 180 witnesses or potential witnesses that could be called at the trial, and, of course, everybody that`s in this pool of 200 has been asked, do you know these people? And is there any kind of conflict of interest you would have from serving?
GRACE: Yes, we have the jury questionnaire right here. It`s extremely thick, very detailed. You`re right about that, Eric Leonard. Eric reporting with KFI 640 in court.
Let`s go out to Mark Ribowsky, author of "He`s a Rebel," it`s a biography of Phil Spector. You know, Spector is a musical genius. But I want to talk about the murder one charge. What`s the state`s strongest evidence, Mark?
MARK RIBOWSKY, AUTHOR, "HE`S A REBEL": Oh, there`s a mountain of it, including Spector`s own statements, of course, which have been repeated ad nauseam. So everyone practically knows that he sort of admitted -- I mean, he admitted to the limo driver and he admitted to the cops that he held...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute, Mark. I`m taking a look at Spector right now. It looks like he`s got a dragonfly lapel pin or some kind of a broach. Shades of Michael Jackson. Thank God he`s not in his pajamas. Go ahead, Mark.
RIBOWSKY: I didn`t recognize him. I thought it was Ellen DeGeneres coming into court. I didn`t even know it was Phil Spector. I`ve never seen that look on him before. I mean, he looks bloodless to me. You know, but he`s smiling, so he must be fairly confident...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I don`t know about that, Mark. It could be under advice of counsel how he should look in court. I want to go to private investigator, former NYPD detective Gil Alba. Gil, you`ve reviewed some of the evidence. What do you think is the strongest case the state could make?
GIL ALBA, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, definitely, she had powder burns on her hands. So, you know, he`s going to say she shot herself.
GRACE: So did he.
ALBA: Yes, right. So the gun was in her mouth, and he shot her. But there was also a diaper in the bathroom with blood on it. So how did that get there? The way she fell, where the blood is, there`s a lot more evidence there to show that this wasn`t a suicide, and that`s why he`s on trial.
GRACE: To Dr. Joshua Perper, he was here earlier with us on the Anna Nicole Smith case, he`s renowned in his field, medical examiner, chief medical examiner, Dr. Perper, there are also allegations that the body was staged. What does that mean?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, BROWARD COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: The body was what?
GRACE: Staged, put in a position, unnatural position.
PERPER: Ah, staged. Well, in my opinion, the evidence points quite clearly to homicide. The fact that she was shot in the mouth can indicate homicide, if the trajectory of the bullet is slightly down or if it`s backwards straight. Injuries to the lips can indicate that there was -- the mouth was not totally closed, so can injury to the teeth. So there are a number of things which can indicate that this was a homicide, just from the autopsy.
Then I did a lot of studies on suicide. I never saw a suicide unless somebody commits suicide in the house of an incidental, first-time acquaintance. And then the statements of the alleged assailants are very clear, both of the police and to his driver. So I think that the totality of the factors indicates, in my opinion, quite clearly that it was homicide.
GRACE: Dr. Perper, Dr. Joshua Perper, I studied in-depth a book called "Method and Assessment of Homicide and Suicide." And statistically, for this particular woman, 40-year-old Lana Clarkson, to commit suicide by gunshot wound, not just to the head area, but to the mouth...
PERPER: Very unusual.
GRACE: ... indication -- highly unusual, practically unheard of. Explain.
PERPER: It`s very unusual, because women, when they commit suicide, the vast majority of cases they try not to disfigure themselves. Even when they shot themselves in the chest, they displace sometimes the bra so they don`t damage the bra. So that`s very atypical for a woman. And the fact that there was gunpowder on her hands, most likely she tried to pull the gun away.
GRACE: And, Dr. Perper, what about the angle, the trajectory path of the bullet? What does that indicate to you, slightly downward?
PERPER: Usually, if people commit suicide, they position the gun so it goes upwards. And in this case, it was backwards or straight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHIL SPECTOR, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER: The actions of the Hitler-like district attorney and his storm-trooping henchmen to seek an indictment against me and censure all means of me getting my evidence and the truth out are reprehensible, unconscionable and despicable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: He`s out on bond. He`s charged with murder one, shooting an unarmed lady in the mouth, and he`s complaining about the police. Out to the lines, Marie in Canada. Hi, Marie.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. We all know that your country has let a pedophile go free twice, a football player commit a double murder. Do you really think Phil Spector is going to jail?
GRACE: Well, our country didn`t do it, Marie from Canada. Two juries did it. And I do believe and hope this jury will return a verdict that speaks the truth.
Very quickly to you, Pat Saunders, a lot made of his hairstyle. Do you think the jury even cares?
DR. PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: No, I don`t, Nancy.
GRACE: I do. Did you see that thing?
SAUNDERS: Well, it`s pretty grotesque. I think the defense is counting on the freak factor and are saving the jammies for the trial. But the jury will hopefully weigh the facts and the evidence, not his appearance.
GRACE: And Gil Alba, rate the evidence, zero to 10, for the state.
ALBA: I`d say eight so far, definitely up there.
GRACE: OK. Those are fighting odds, Gil Alba, private investigator here in New York.
Let`s stop our legal discussion to remember Army Sergeant Thomas Latham, 23, Delmar, Maryland, killed, Iraq. Also served in Afghanistan, awarded Purple Heart and Bronze Star. Loved the outdoors, his church youth group, his wife and children. He leaves behind widow, Rachel, daughter, Ariel, and son, Caleb. Thomas Latham, American hero.
Thank you to our guests and to you for being with us. NANCY GRACE signing off. Until tomorrow night, good night, friend.
END
