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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Gonzales Aide Grilled on Capitol Hill; British Standoff With Iran; Showdown Over Iraq
Aired March 29, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: The former top aide to the attorney general goes before Congress and contradicts his ex-boss in the U.S. attorney firings. A leading senator says the attorney general's credibility is shattered.
A Senate vote today sends the president and Congress on course for a showdown over the war in Iraq.
And the standoff between Iran and Britain is intensifying tonight six days after Iran captured 15 British sailors and marines in the Persian Gulf.
We'll have those stories, all the day's news, much more, straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Thursday, March 29th.
Live from Washington, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
Tonight, the former chief of staff to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales contradicts his ex-boss and says Gonzales was involved in the decision to fire eight U.S. attorneys.
The Senate passed a $123 billion war spending bill and a deadline to bring our troops home. President Bush is standing by his threat to veto that legislation.
Dana Bash tonight reports on the testimony of the man at the center of the investigation into those U.S. attorney firings.
Andrea Koppel is here to report on the Senate's next move in the showdown over a deadline for withdrawing our troops.
Aneesh Raman reports on the standoff between Iran and Britain, and Tehran's new accusation against those British sailors and marines captured six days ago.
We begin tonight with Dana Bash.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, for Kyle Sampson, it was a long, exhausting day in the witness chair. He calmly and repeatedly tried to rebut Democrats' assertions that federal prosecutors were fired as part of a political witch hunt, but he also raised new questions about the diminishing credibility of his former boss, the attorney general.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): Under oath, the attorney general's former chief of staff disputed Alberto Gonzales' claim that he was not involved in discussions about firing federal prosecutors.
KYLE SAMPSON, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO ATTORNEY GENERAL ALBERTO GONZALES: I don't think the attorney general's statement that he was not involved in any discussions about U.S. attorney removals is accurate. And...
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R-PA), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE RANKING MEMBER: Is what? Is accurate?
SAMPSON: I don't think it's accurate.
BASH: In fact, Sampson told senators that conversations with the attorney general on the issue began two years ago, when Gonzales was still White House counsel.
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: So there were repeated discussions.
SAMPSON: Yes. And I think the attorney general clarified that a couple of days ago.
SCHUMER: Just want to get it clear.
So, were there at least five?
SAMPSON: I don't remember specifically, but it would -- I spoke with him every day, so I think at least five.
BASH: Sampson's account is at odds with this Gonzales statement two weeks ago.
ALBERTO GONZALES, ATTORNEY GENERAL: But that is, in essence, what I knew about the process, was not involved in seeing any memos, was not involved in any discussions about what was going on.
BASH: Gonzales has since acknowledged department records suggesting he did sign off on the dismissals. But Sampson's testimony adds to what even loyal Republicans call a growing Gonzales credibility gap.
SEN. JEFF SESSIONS (R), ALABAMA: I don't think it was a small matter. And I think the attorney general -- I'm disappointed he didn't remember that in his statement.
BASH: The exchanges about Gonzales may have overshadowed Sampson's efforts to challenge the assumption that led Democrats to launch this investigation, that eight federal prosecutors were fired for being too tough on Republicans and too soft on Democrats in corruption probes. SAMPSON: To my knowledge, there was no -- no U.S. attorney asked to resign for the purpose of influencing a particular case for a political reason.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Sampson said that he did gather information and made recommendations about which federal prosecutors should be fired, but he also specifically made the point that it was not his call in terms of who would make the final decision. He said that was the attorney general and the White House counsel, suggesting that those two had much greater roles in this than anyone had previously acknowledged -- Lou.
DOBBS: Dana, thank you very much.
Dana Bash from Capitol Hill.
Tonight, the standoff between Britain and Iran is intensifying. It has now been six days since Iran captured 15 British sailors and marines while they were inspecting a cargo ship in the Persian Gulf. We learned today that U.S. Navy forces, a patrol boat and a helicopter searched unsuccessfully for those British marines and sailors immediately after the Royal Navy lost contact with them.
Yesterday, there were optimistic signals coming from Iran. Today, that all changed.
Aneesh Raman has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANEESH RAMAN, CNN MIDDLE EAST CORRESPONDENT: Lou, good evening.
What a difference a day makes in terms of policies coming out of Tehran. Just yesterday, the Iranian foreign minister told me that the sole female British sailor among the group of 15 British military personnel seized by Iran last week could be released "very soon," as early as yesterday, if not today. Well, today, out of Tehran, a top Iranian official said that release has been suspended in reaction to statements that had been made by the British government out of London.
Also, on Iranian state-run television today, a top naval commander announced that British military personnel had trespassed into Iranian waters five times before the seizure of British military personnel last Friday. Iran also showcased maps pinpointing where the British ships were and GPS coordinates of its own that Iran says supports the Islamic Republic's claim that these British military personnel were indeed in Iranian waters.
Now, what seems to be happening is Iran pushing back against growing international pressure, action perhaps to come from the U.N. in terms of a resolution. Iran really wanted this to be resolved between Tehran and London, but the release of that video changed a lot. And now Iran seems more than ever unwilling to back down -- Lou.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Aneesh Raman.
Anti-war Democrats and some Republicans today succeeded in the Senate. Succeeded in passing a $123 billion war spending bill that sets a deadline for bringing our troops home from Iraq. The legislation would have all of our troops back by the 31st of March of next year. But this sets up a showdown with the president, who is standing by his promise to veto it.
Andrea Koppel has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): President Bush was all smiles as he joined congressional Democratic leaders in honoring another generation of war veterans. Only hours earlier, he was all business, repeating a threat to veto an emergency spending bill for U.S. troops.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We expect there to be no strings on our commanders.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), ILLINOIS: The ayes are 51, the nays are 47.
KOPPEL: But by the slimmest of margins, Senate Democrats passed the bill. And with the help of two Republicans, Nebraska's Chuck Hagel, and Oregon's Gordon Smith, practically dared Mr. Bush to veto it.
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: The ball is in the president's court. We have done what we had to do to take care of people who are fighting for us.
KOPPEL: Like the House version, the $123 billion Senate bill is chockabloc with sweeteners, pet projects to help farmers, Iraq war veterans, and victims of hurricanes Katrina and Rita. Republicans called it a ploy to buy votes.
But even more alarming, they said, the bill's goal to remove most U.S. combat troops from Iraq by March 31, 2008. That's five months earlier than the August 31st deadline agreed to by the House. Republicans said Democrats had, in effect, set a date for defeat.
SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R), ALABAMA: It is the wrong message at the wrong time. Surely, this will embolden the enemy. It will not help our troops in any way. It's a big mistake.
KOPPEL: The challenge now for appointed lawmakers in the House and Senate, to bridge their differences on a date for withdrawal before the bill is sent to the president's desk. A bigger challenge, how to proceed if Mr. Bush makes good on a threat to veto it.
SEN. PATTY MURRAY (D), WASHINGTON: We challenge the president not to veto a bill that finally takes care of those men and women who have worked so hard for us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL: And despite the fact that Senate Democrats and Republicans have appointed members to negotiate with the House, neither party has done so in the House, which means that an effort to reconcile their differences between begin until at least April the 10th.
And Lou, that's when Congress returns from their spring break. As to whether they'll succeed or not, as one House Democratic leadership aide told CNN, he said, "That's certainly the $64 billion question."
DOBBS: And on the subject of money, Andrea, is there any movement in either the Senate or the House to strip out that pork spending so that the president could not use that as some sort of front to act against the legislation?
KOPPEL: I think certainly before today's vote, there was an effort by Republicans to do that. They in fact had an amendment that was offered that would have done that. But the amendment failed. So now, unless they do so in their conference...
DOBBS: Right. And that's what I was asking.
KOPPEL: Yes.
DOBBS: If there's any -- is there any influence on the part of the Democrats to strip that out of the bill?
KOPPEL: No.
DOBBS: All right.
Andrea, thank you very much.
Andrea Koppel.
An American soldier has died of a non-combat-related illness. Seventy-nine American troops in Iraq have died this month. 3,245 of our troops have been killed since the beginning of this war. 23,314 of our troops wounded, 10,841 of them seriously.
Across Iraq today, the violence was extreme. All together, more than 120 people died in bombings. All of those bombings in markets, including three deaths in Baghdad when a bomb exploded in a parked car.
Now one of the nation's most distinguished leaders, General David Grange, joins me from Chicago with his perspective on Washington politics, the vote in the Senate and the House, and how those votes are likely to affect the morale of our fighting men and women in Iraq.
General, good to have you with us.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: To what degree should we be concerned with this legislation? The Republicans tell us that it does not help our fighting men and women.
Your thoughts?
GRANGE: Well, when you have a timeline on any kind of a conflict that's ongoing, it really gives too much information to the enemy. I know a lot of people take that lightly. But, you know, what you want to do is impose uncertainty until your -- on your opponents. You don't want to give them some idea on how to gauge their actions.
DOBBS: It's now been more than four years, General. And as you and I have discussed, at what point is it time to tell the general staff of this -- of this military that gradual failure that has preceded this year is unacceptable? At what point does someone have to say, clearly, as the Senate and the House have now spoken, that the United States government will not tolerate protracted lack of success?
GRANGE: Well, you know, I think that's actually happened already. I know it's been told to the leadership of the Iraqi government. I think the generals know that. And, of course, it's not just Department of Defense, as we discussed before. We're talking about all of the interagency components of this effort.
DOBBS: Right.
GRANGE: But you do that quietly. You do that in a strategy session with Congress and the administration behind closed doors. You don't tell that to the enemy.
DOBBS: And to the degree that we're most concerned about the young Americans in harm's way in Iraq, do you think this bolsters, interferes with or depresses morale, or has no effect?
GRANGE: I think it is a morale issue. It shows that there's discontent between the leadership, there's confusion. I think it causes the soldiers to wonder if it's worth it. Those type of things. So, yes, I think that does influence the morale of the soldiers.
DOBBS: General David Grange, thanks for being here.
GRANGE: My pleasure.
DOBBS: Up next, the war on the middle class. New evidence today of a worsening gap between this nation's best paid and the rest of America.
Border betrayal -- a new move to uncover the Mexican government's role in the prosecution of two former Border Patrol agents convicted of shooting a Mexican drug smuggler given immunity to testify against those agents.
And please be sure to join us tonight here on CNN at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. A special edition of LOU DOBBS TONIGHT live from Washington. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A new report demonstrating that the rich continue to reap the financial benefits of our economy, while middle class workers in this country are being pressured to work for less. This report, this study, comes as Kitty Pilgrim now reports on the same day as one of the largest retailers is firing tens of thousands of workers, and then offering to hire them back for lower wages.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): New data shows that the top one percent of Americans are now 400 times richer than average Americans.
BOB GREENSTEIN, CENTER ON BUDGET AND POLICY PRIORITIES: We have not seen these kinds of gaps since before the Great Depression. We have now have two years in a row in which we had huge income gains at the top, and people in the middle and below did not share.
PILGRIM: He says the rich disproportionately benefit from the Bush administration tax cuts.
The American worker has been downsized, outsourced, laid off, and now companies are replacing experienced workers with cheaper ones. The second largest electronics retailer in the country, Circuit City, is firing 3,400 of its best-paid workers. In an outrageous offer, the company says it will give these workers the opportunity to reapply for those same jobs at lower pay.
JONATHAN JACOBY, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: Well, having worked for a number of years for the company, and moved their way up and developed their skills to be better salespeople, is then rewarded by, in this case, oh, so you have to actually, you know, get laid off.
PILGRIM: Watchdog groups say big corporate chains like Wal-Mart make an effort to squeeze out older, long-term workers who cost the company more in wages and health care.
DAVID NASSAR, WAL-MART WATCH: For the better part of the past two years, we have seen Wal-Mart engage in policies to try to get rid of workers who have stayed too long with the company. The only difference between Circuit City's decision today and Wal-Mart is that Wal-Mart has been underhanded about it.
PILGRIM: All of this is especially outrageous at a time when the CEOs of Wal-Mart and Circuit City are compensated in millions of dollars.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Labor experts say the squeeze on the middle class has a nasty edge now. For example, at Circuit City, workers can have the privilege of their old job back at a lower wage. They have to weight 10 weeks to apply. And the retailer can fill that job during that time. So on top of less money, there are no guarantees that the job will still be there -- Lou.
DOBBS: Kitty, thank you very much.
Kitty Pilgrim.
The parent company of retailer TJ Maxx now says information from almost 46 million credit cards was stolen by hackers. The theft all disclosed first by the company in January. But a recent filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission shows just how large the security breach actually was and how long it continued.
The company now says its computer systems were repeatedly breached over an 18-month period. That ending in January. And the company says the identity of the hackers remains unknown.
It may come as no surprise to you that the vast majority of Americans are dissatisfied with the operation of the federal government these days. The middle class says both political parties need to do more for working men and women -- middle class America.
As Bill Schneider now reports, the Democratic candidates for president say they've begun to listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice over): Frustrated. That's how most Americans say they feel about government in the latest Pew Research Center poll. The poll finds that the public wants government to do more to help the middle class, like a higher minimum wage, affirmative action programs, having the government take care of people who can't take care of themselves, and a government guarantee of health insurance for all, even if it means raising taxes.
Democratic candidates for president are responding to the demand for more government responsibility in meeting the needs of the middle class.
OBAMA: It's been the creation of a massive middle class through decent wages and benefits and public schools that have allowed all of us to prosper.
SCHNEIDER: But while Americans want government to do more, they trust government less. Poll takers have been asking the question, "How much of the time do you think you can trust the government in Washington to do what it right?" for almost 50 years. The number of Americans who said they trust the government peaked back in 1958. It started to go down in the 1960s.
By the malaise crisis of the late 1970s, trust in government reached an all-time low, 29 percent. It went up a bit during the '80s and '90s when the economy was good. The latest figure, only 31 percent of Americans say they trust the government, about as low as it was during the 1970s. Republican candidates make their pitch to the frustrated middle class by targets taxes. Why pay more taxes to a government you don't trust?
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'll fight to stop the tax hike. And I'll fight for a new savings plan for middle class Americans as well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: The two trends are colliding. Americans want government to do more and more to help the middle class, but they trust government less and less. So the result is mounting frustration.
DOBBS: Well, mounting frustration, and, empirically, is there any reason for middle class in particular not to be frustrated with this government? And I'm not talking politically, or in terms of partisan views or allegiances.
SCHNEIDER: Yes.
DOBBS: Just the administration and the operation of this federal government, department by department?
SCHNEIDER: Yes. Well, that frustration has been mounting for years, as we saw in that trend. It's never been as high as it was in 1958. That's when it peaked. And it's collapsed.
DOBBS: And it's interesting -- 1958, the year, of course, of Sputnik. That period also producing the Gary Powers incident with the U-2 over at the Soviet Union.
SCHNEIDER: Right.
DOBBS: And the first time in my memory, and certain evidence that a president lied to the American people. And it's an interesting date.
SCHNEIDER: And everything has been unraveling in the federal government since then.
DOBBS: Well, it's time for a course correction, as they say. And hopefully, we have begun that process.
Thank you very much.
Bill Schneider.
SCHNEIDER: Sure.
DOBBS: Up next here, organized religious groups pushing their beliefs on to the national agenda. What's going on?
And the Bush administration's plan to open this nation's highways to Mexican trucks. That plan would bring thousands more truckers into the country, more illegal drugs and illegal aliens. One congressman wants to stop it. Congressman Duncan Hunter joins us to talk about this threat to our national security.
And powerful tornadoes touching down across the Midwest.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, religion is trying to direct our national political agenda from illegal immigration, to the presidential race, to the Middle East peace process.
And as Christine Romans now reports, religious leaders of all persuasions and faiths are vigorously pushing their divine agendas.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Thirty-five United States congressmen call for Americans to spend five minutes a week praying to build a spiritual prayer wall around America, until God heals our land. A divine agenda in American political life.
RICHARD PARKER, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: It's been this way from the very beginning. And it's been for good and ill. I mean, if you look at every major social reform movement in the United States, you'll find the hand of religion in it.
ROMAN: Reform or interference? Conservative evangelical leader James Dobson tells "US News & World Report" the actor and former senator Fred Thompson is not Christian enough to be president. Complimenting instead, another former lawmaker, Newt Gingrich. Married three times, he recently admitted to an extramarital affair.
Dobson says Senator Thompson hasn't clearly communicated his religious faith -- "... many evangelical Christians might find this a barrier to supporting him."
CHARLES DUNN, REGENT UNIVERSITY: It carries a lot of weight with this constituency. There are people -- we would call them true believers.
ROMAN: Believers who are a force in politics. Pew Research says 24 percent of voters in the 2004 election were white evangelical Christians.
At the same time, the Israel lobby, the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee, woos American political leaders. And the Catholic Church vigorously supports illegal immigration.
CARDINAL ROGER MAHONY, LOS ANGELES: We simply cannot exclude them. We must find ways to bring them into the full light of our society.
ROMAN: Even promoting Senator Kennedy's proposals. MARK KRIKORIAN, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: You say specifically that there's a religious duty to vote for Ted Kennedy's immigration bill, that is going too far.
ROMAN: Religious moral authority critics say crosses the line into political meddling.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMAN: Religious organizations have tax exempt status and are prohibited from electioneering from the pulpit. They cannot endorse or oppose specific candidates. It's a very fine line between moralizing free speech, Lou, and potentially violating the tax code.
DOBBS: Now, and to hear any religious leader divining on the character and capacity of a political candidate, I mean, that's just, in my opinion, just utterly unseemly, irrespective whether it's a violation of the tax code. It's remarkable.
Thank you very much.
Christine Romans.
Up next here, record numbers of legal immigrants to this country are choosing to become American citizens. We'll tell you where they're coming from.
And border betrayal. A new move to find out whether the Mexican government was involved in the prosecution of former Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean.
And wild weather and powerful tornadoes touching down across the Midwest. We'll have some incredible video of today's weather pictures.
And don't forget to join us tonight, 8:00 p.m. Eastern. Our special edition of this broadcast live from Washington.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A massive spring storm hitting the plains states with early tornadoes. These dramatic pictures just in of a tornado touching down near Oklahoma City. This storm system, sweeping across the country, has already sent tornadoes, as many as 65 tornadoes, in fact, spreading across five states.
One deadly twister in Colorado, wrapping a home around a tree. The tornado left eight injured and at least one dead.
The tornado is blamed for three more deaths in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Nebraska.
The number of illegal immigrants becoming U.S. citizens is -- of legal, rather, immigrants becoming U.S. citizens is now at a record high. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, the number of naturalized citizens in 2005 was 12.8 million, 52 percent of all legal immigrants living in this country.
Nearly 2.4 million Latin immigrants became citizens between 1985 and 2005. For the first time, immigrants from Latin America and Asia outnumbered the number of European immigrants applying for citizenship.
And the study found the number of Mexican immigrants becoming U.S. citizens increased at an astonishing 140 percent over the past decade alone.
Federal immigration agents today arrested more than 60 employees in a raid on a Maryland temporary agency. The agency allegedly provided illegal alien workers to companies in the Baltimore area.
Those arrested individuals will have their immigration status determined before further action is taken. The companies where the illegal aliens were placed are said to be cooperating with immigration enforcement officials. And they are not, we are told, targets of the investigation.
Was the Mexican government instrumental in the prosecution of former Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean?
Casey Wian has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The anti-government corruption group Judicial Watch is suing the Bush administration to release documents related to the vigorous prosecution of two Border Patrol agents who shot a Mexican drug smuggler transporting 743 pounds of marijuana in 2005.
Former agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean are serving more than a decade in federal prison for wounding Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila, an illegal alien, and not properly reporting the shooting near the Mexican border.
TOM FITTON, PRESIDENT, JUDICIAL WATCH: We want to know about any backroom deals involving this drug runner that was used as a prosecution witness against these Border Patrol agents. We want to know if there are any secret deals, especially between the United States and Mexico and what went on there.
WIAN: Official records show the investigation began when the drug smuggler's mother in Mexico contacted the mother of a Border Patrol agent in Arizona.
But questions about the Mexican government's involvement intensified, after homeland security investigators briefed members of Congress on the case. Reportedly, they said the investigation began with a complaint from the Mexican consulate.
REP. TED POE (R), TEXAS: I don't know that they would have been prosecuted had they're not been some type of involvement from a foreign power, namely, Mexico.
WIAN: Tuesday, on a special edition of "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT", prosecutor Johnny Sutton denied there were orders from Mexico or Washington, D.C., to prosecute the case.
DOBBS: The Mexican consulate contacted who?
JOHNNY SUTTON, U.S. ATTORNEY: The Mexican consulate wrote the standard letter that they always write in these kind of cases.
DOBBS: Are you sure it's a standard letter?
SUTTON: These case, well, I don't know. The letter was sent to homeland security. But I can tell you that this case originated like any other case that we try in El Paso.
WIAN: But there was no case against the drug smuggler, even though DEA documents show the same homeland security investigator involved in the Ramos-Compean case had clear evidence Aldrete-Davila was tied to a second drug load while he was under U.S. government protection.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Now, those documents show the owner of a stash House in Texas identified Aldrete-Davila as the owner of a 750-pound load of marijuana. He was identified by name, by physical description. He was even picked out of a photo line-up. Yet, he, not the agents, went free, Lou.
DOBBS: A lot of questions to be answered here. And hopefully, we'll be gets through each -- each process -- each stage of this process to more and more answers. Casey, thank you very much.
Casey Wian reporting on this miscarriage of justice since the beginning of the case.
That brings us to our poll question tonight. Do you believe the Bush administration should be forced to release all documents related to the prosecution of former Border Patrol agents, Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean? Yes or no? Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. Those results coming up here later.
Arizona authorities have broken up a human smuggling ring responsible for arranging air travel for thousands of illegal aliens. Sixteen people taken into custody.
The smugglers worked out of six travel agencies in the Phoenix area. Authorities say more than 7,000 illegal aliens were brought into Arizona over the past two years. The travel agencies then arranged one way air travel for the illegal aliens to various cities throughout the United States.
Two partially dug tunnels under the U.S.-Mexican border were discovered by federal agents. The agents found those tunnels yesterday near the Otay Mesa port of entry. The crude passageways were about three feet high and wide. Both extended just a short distance to the U.S. side of the border. No arrests have been made.
And earlier this month, the Department of Homeland Security agreed to seal seven long existing tunnels that ran under the border for the benefit of smugglers, illegal aliens and drugs.
Tonight, growing outrage over a Bush administration plan that could bring more illegal aliens as well as illegal drugs into this country. It would give Mexican trucks unlimited access to American highways, allowing them to deliver goods all across our country. Today, one lawmaker took a major step toward putting limits on that plan.
Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good girl.
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jennifer Tierney misses her dad. He died at the age of 55 in a collision with a tractor trailer. She's now a member of the Truck Safety Coalition. The group opposes a Department of Transportation pilot program that would allow hundreds of Mexican trucks to travel anywhere in the United States.
JENNIFER TIERNEY, TRUCK SAFETY COALITION: They absolutely do not have the same safety standards as the U.S. trucks. They do not require the random alcohol and drug testing that's required here in the United States. They can cross the border after having worked 14, 16 hours and still legally drive 11 more hours in the United States.
SYLVESTER: Congressman Duncan Hunter has introduced legislation that would block the program unless new requirements are met. Transportation officials would have to show how Mexican carriers will comply with U.S. regulations and how authorities will enforce those rules.
And U.S. law enforcement would need access to Mexican truckers driving in criminal records.
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R), CALIFORNIA: There is no way for our American law enforcement officials to know whether or not one of these drivers who's driving in a truck and trailer, which could have tens of millions of dollars worth of illegal drugs in it, whether or not he's been arrested, four, five, six, seven, eight times for narcotics in Mexico.
SYLVESTER: Independent U.S. truck drivers say national security and safety are not the only worries. They could lose their jobs.
TODD SPENCER, OWNER-OPERATOR, INDEPENDENT DRIVERS ASSOCIATION: The net effect of what they're trying to do is take trucking, a $623 billion annual -- $623 billion industry in America and simply outsource a significant chunk of those jobs to another country.
SYLVESTER: The Department of Transportation intends to move forward, despite the criticism, saying, "The cross-border trucking demonstrations program will bring real benefits and real dollars to the American economy while maintaining all U.S. safety and security standards."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: The Department of Transportation would like to begin the pilot program as early as April. But a Senate committee voted to block funding for the program until the Transportation Department releases more details of the plan and can show that the pilot project meets congressionally mandated safety and security standards.
And, Lou, there are a number of groups lined up against this project. You've got the Teamsters. We've got public watchdog groups. There are many concerns about this program.
DOBBS: And those large number of concerns should start with the Transportation Department. This is the same group of people in the executive branch who think they don't even have to follow the law. Perfectly willing to go beyond the congressional mandates for ownership percentage in American airlines in our American airline industry and doing this unilaterally without any. These people are out of their mind.
SYLVESTER: That's a very good point, because they're labeling this a demonstration project, not a pilot project. Because if it were a pilot project, they would have to open it up for public hearings. They would have a public commentary. And they are trying to avoid them, going around it by calling it a demonstration.
DOBBS: These political hacks working in the Bush administration running these important agencies, playing their little petty political games and treating the rest of the world as if we're all a bunch of idiots. And the American people are not attuned to their madness. It's disgusting what they've been doing.
Anyway, thank you very much, Lisa. Lisa Sylvester.
Coming up here next, we'll have more on this threat to our national security. I'll be talking with congressman Duncan Hunter here.
And the Democrats stand fast on their timetable for withdrawing our troops from Iraq. I'll be talking with the powerful chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senator Carl Levin. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The showdown over Iraq and the conduct of the war is on, as we reported earlier, with President Bush and the Congress. They're on a direct collision course. The powerful chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee has been a leader in the drive to tie funding for this war to a time line for withdrawal.
Senator Carl Levin joins us now.
Senator, good to have you with us.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: Good to be with you, Lou.
DOBBS: The legislation has passed. You have a conference committee ahead of you. You have decided to -- to absolutely demand withdrawal of our troops. What do you think will transpire, first, in your own conference?
LEVIN: Well, I think the conference will come out similar, as usual, between the House and the Senate.
The Senate bill that we passed today provides that there will be the beginning of a reduction of forces within four months. It's not precipitous. It does not have a fixed date for the finish of the withdrawal. And it also provides, as the House bill does, that there will be some limited missions left for some remaining troops. It would not call for a total withdrawal even as a goal.
So ours is kind of a balanced approach. But it's very clear that the message to the Iraqis leaders would be in that first part of our bill, which says that we will begin to reduce our military presence in four months.
DOBBS: The president, some Republicans and tonight, here on this broadcast, our military analyst, General David Grange, said that a time line for withdrawal will influence negatively the morale of our troops in Iraq.
The president has said he will veto the legislation. What do you do, because you obviously do not, at this point, have the 60 votes to override that veto, should it come? What -- what is your plan?
LEVIN: First, in terms of undermining the morale of our troops, the top military officer we have in this country, General Pace, says it does not undermine the morale of our troops to debate a policy which is not working.
The top secretary -- the top civilian, secretary of defense, Mr. Gates, says it does not undermine our troops to have a debate in a democratic government such as ours, on whether or not a policy should be changed.
It's almost an insult to our troops to suggest that we should not debate a policy which is not working. That's the first half of your question.
DOBBS: Right.
LEVIN: The second half of your question goes to what is the purpose of passing this legislation.
Even though we don't have the votes to override the veto, we do have a majority now which says that we should change course. And this action has been pointed to by our own negotiator, Ambassador Khalilzad, and by our own secretary of state is saying that the action, the debate here in Washington, helps to put pressure on the Iraqi leaders to work out a political settlement. And that is a very important function of this vote.
DOBBS: And, Senator, Senator Pace -- not Senator Pace. General Pace, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, told the House Defense Appropriations Committee today that a delay in funding would have a definite impact on our troops. The deadline, he said, for such a spending bill is May 15.
Will you, will all of your colleagues in -- be able to insist on time lines for both passing that legislation and for time lines for deployment of our troops as part of the bill?
LEVIN: Well, that deadline is going to be meet. Because even though we're divided on Iraq policy here, we are not divided when it comes to support of the troops. We're not going to cut funding for the troops.
The next step should be that the president would accept the offer which was made today by Senator Reid and by Speaker Pelosi to meet with the president to see if we cannot work out some kind of common ground.
They wrote a very -- a very good letter, a very positive letter to the president, saying, "Look, we have basic differences. We're a coequal branch of government. We'd like to meet with you to talk about the next step."
But in any event, there's not going to be a passing of that May 15 deadline, because we're all united. We're going to support our troops. But we also are going to continue to try to change course so we can get on a successful course in Iraq.
DOBBS: Senator Carl Levin, thanks for being with us.
LEVIN: Good to be with you, Lou.
DOBBS: And a reminder to vote in our poll tonight. Do you believe the Bush administration should be forced to release all documents related to the prosecution of former Border Patrol agents, Ramos or Compean? Yes or no? Please cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results upcoming.
And next, a new danger crossing the border and rumbling along the highways of America. Big trucks from Mexico. Big ideas from this administration on integrating the economies of Mexico, Canada and the United States.
And by the way, what you think about it just doesn't matter. And more on how to stop the invasion from our next guest, California citizen and U.S. congressman and candidate for president of the United States, Duncan Hunter. The congressman joins us here next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Coming up at the top of the hour, "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Lou, a very serious assessment on the war in Iraq. And a warning to President Bush. Democratic Congressman John Murtha is all fired up. He's speaking out. You're going to want to see my interview with the outspoken war critic and decorated Vietnam War veteran.
Also, major new developments in the standoff between Britain and Iran over those captive U.K. sailors and marines. We're going to show you how American forces tried to help the British forces. And Saudi Arabia snubbing the U.S., is that country's king issuing a stinging rebuke over the war in Iraq.
And finally, a rapping Karl Rove. We're going to show you the top White House advisor as you've never seen him before.
All of that, Lou, coming up, right here in "THE SITUATION ROOM".
DOBBS: All right, Wolf, thank you very much.
Well, we reported on the Bush administration's plan to open up our nation's highways to Mexican truck drivers, give them full and free access to our highways and throughways.
Joining me now, one person who doesn't exactly like that idea, and he's doing something about it. We're joined by Democratic congressman and presidential candidate Duncan Hunter.
Congressman, good to have you here.
HUNTER: Good to be here, Lou.
DOBBS: So you want to -- the NAFTA Trucking Safety Act of 2007. Some of the major points of that bill, to hold trucks to regulations, to monitor the immigration and customs standards. Is that going to be sufficient?
HUNTER: Here's a big key, Lou. You know, this grows out of NAFTA.
DOBBS: Right. Oh, believe me, I know.
HUNTER: This is the long -- the long-stirring element with Mexican trucking coming into this country and making a big piece of America's trucking business away, primarily from our small trucking companies. But what you've got now is this. You've got trucks that come across from Mexico. They have to offload at the 25-mile area. What that means, if you're a drug dealer and you're moving a lot amount of narcotics through trucks into America, you have a seam in the operation.
Well, you bring in your truckload of narcotics that you can get to fairly easily. But you then have to offload onto an American truck. So unless you have control of this -- the two pieces of the situation, it's tougher to do it. Now you're going to be...
DOBBS: So why are the idiots of the Transportation Department going ahead with what -- trying to go ahead with what they call a pilot program?
HUNTER: Well, in the first place, I think they want it to be a big program, because it's 100 companies.
DOBBS: Of course.
HUNTER: And that could be any every truck in Mexico. Because 100 companies simply -- simply do business with all of the trucks.
So it's bad news for people who want to stop illegal narcotics because you can have people that are multiple convicted drug dealers, drug dealers bringing this stuff across.
And what we say is, you're going to have to have a system that Mexico can show us, that gives us the exact criminal record and driving record of every single one of these guys driving these trucks. And show us how you're going to check them at the border before you can do it. This is going to be an unmitigated disaster for narcotics interdiction.
DOBBS: But you've got me convinced, believe me.
The other part of this is, as you said, NAFTA. But also the Security and Prosperity Partnership, which is a joke, what some people are calling the North American Union. And it is being driven by the elites.
I don't think that people realize that this administration in 2001, in April and September before September 11, were committed to economic integration with Mexico. And September 11 changed all of that. Now, that is being reinstated as being driven.
What is your thought?
HUNTER: Well, Lou, I can tell you what I'm running on. I'm running on bringing back the middle class and bringing back the Reagan Democrats to the Republican Party. And that means building a manufacturing base in this country and bringing back, because of bad trade deals, good manufacturing. And it means having borders and enforcing the borders.
Now, you know, I've got a good idea for this partnership that is being suggested with Mexico and Canada. And that is, next time we have a war that we go off and fight in and devote American troops to, it would be nice that Mexico and Canada would stand with us, which they didn't do, as you know in the Iraq operation. That wasn't a partnership.
DOBBS: That doesn't sound too much like a partnership, does it? But at the same time, this administration has a list of just -- of just absolutely absurd complicities in all sorts of issues, including, failing on border security, pressing ahead with SVP, the North American Union. The list goes on. The conduct of the war in Iraq. And you and I disagree about how well it's going there.
HUNTER: I got back ten days ago. I think it's going better there.
DOBBS: I understand. I know you do.
HUNTER: I saw David Grange.
DOBBS: He's a good man. But I've got to tell you, this administration went after, as you well know, border agents Ramos and Compean. We were down at the prison in Mississippi where former Agent Ramos is. You sponsored legislation to try to win them a pardon.
HUNTER: To give them a pardon. We have 94 co-sponsors now.
DOBBS: At the same time, the effort to find out what is going on here. And what this -- and this attorney general, I mean, it is clear right now that this attorney general not only misspoke, misstated and was contradicted by just about everything the attorney general has dumped on the national media and Congress.
But politics are a big part of prosecutions. Would you favor a full, open investigation into Ramos and Compean's prosecution?
HUNTER: Sure. But you know one thing you have to look at, too? Certainly, I would favor that. But the other thing that I would favor is having an enforceable border.
DOBBS: Yes.
HUNTER: And I built the border fence in San Diego. And what Americans don't realize is, we passed a law that will build 854 miles of that border fence across Arizona, New Mexico and Texas.
And that piece of the Rio Grande that that drug dealer drove across with Ramos and Compean with 750 tons of drugs, would be fenced under the bill that I wrote. It's now the law. We're going to build that fence. You know, they started building it in Arizona right now.
DOBBS: Well, they started building it. But I'll tell you what. I just don't want to have to wait till 2009. The fact of the matter is...
HUNTER: Well, at least you got some confidence. DOBBS: Well, you know, I'll put it straightforwardly. We got a bigger issue right now. That's Michael Chertoff with the Department of Homeland Security, who thinks a virtual fence is the same thing. And doesn't think...
HUNTER: It's not. And when I wrote that thing, I said a physical barrier is not a virtual fence.
I put the word "shall" in it. I didn't say it was a goal. I said shall.
DOBBS: Yes. I know you did. And you know what? There's a lot of "shalls" in U.S. immigration laws. There's a lot of "shalls" in taking the oath of office. This president, this administration and the previous Congress...
HUNTER: And the previous administration was free trade. They signed NAFTA.
DOBBS: But what they're saying is we shall simply ignore the will of the American people.
HUNTER: One point, though, Lou.
DOBBS: And then I got to go. We've got 15 seconds.
HUNTER: I put the word "shall" in for the San Diego border fence. And we made them build that fence. And I put the same language in the 854-mile fence.
DOBBS: It's not often I hear a Republican congressman longstanding and searching running for his party's nomination compliment the previous opposing party's administration.
HUNTER: We made them obey the law.
DOBBS: I wish you'd have worked on your own. Congressman Duncan Hunter. Good to be with you.
HUNTER: Thank you. Good to be with you.
DOBBS: Still ahead, the results of our poll. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight: 99 percent of you say the Bush administration should be forced to release all documents related to the prosecution of former Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean.
And now a couple of your thoughts.
Jack in Texas says, "Let me see if I have this straight. Two Border Patrol agents are in prison for preventing drug smuggling at the border. Smugglers with 500 pounds of dope or less are not prosecuted. When did the 'War on Drugs' become a war on drug law enforcement?"
And Spence in Pennsylvania: "Your web site asks what country I'm e-mailing from. I thought it was America until I saw your program on the Border Patrol agents. Now I really don't know."
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us here again tonight, 8 p.m. Eastern. Among my guests tonight, the sponsor of the House's so-called comprehensive immigration legislation, Congressman Luis Gutierrez. One of the bill's most vocal critics, Congressman Brian Bilbray. Please join us.
Thanks for watching tonight. Good night from Washington. "THE SITUATION ROOM" begins now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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