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Nancy Grace

Michael Jackson Camp Denies Hospitalization Report/North Carolina Day Care Shut After Cops Find Guns and Pot

Aired March 29, 2007 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Music icon Michael Jackson beat the rap on child molestation charges in a California courtroom, but tonight reports indicated Jackson is back in the hospital. Is Jackson`s uncanny track record of entering rehabs and hospitals when it`s time to go to court back in play?
And tonight, a parent`s nightmare. You drop your toddler at day care in the morning, only to rush back when you get a call from police. That`s what happened at a four out of five star rated day care. A tipster leads police to the day care full of children, where police discover not only marijuana, but through all the dense pot smoke, an arsenal of handguns, rifles and ammunition, all within the children`s reach, and this a state- approved day care facility.

And also, not one, not two, but three California children near the prestigious Squaw Valley resort -- a community mourns the death of a newborn, the first found wrapped in a blanket on an outdoor bench, umbilical cord still attached. Then came the second, and now the third. All three babies left abandoned out in the open each 11 months apart, all, according to DNA, from the same mother. Tonight, we want answers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A North Carolina day care owner faces serious gun and drug charges after Graham (ph) police receive a tip on a home-run (ph) child care facility leaded with guns and marijuana. Officers arrive on scene and find not only handguns, rifles, ammunition, and what they describe as an indoor zoo of animals, but also seven young toddlers inside, one of them even sleeping on a makeshift pillow, a bag full of guns. And more weapons rest on a gun rack above the child`s head. The state Division of Child Development has suspended owner Theresa Boyd`s (ph) day care license, but just last year, her day care passed two inspections with flying colors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. First, Michael Jackson in the hospital? Will a courtroom be next?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There have been instances when he`s had to perform on stage and he was upset about one thing or another, and he would have a panic attack and actually (INAUDIBLE) hospitalized. So I can tell from you my own sources in the Jackson camp that he is very sick right now. He was diagnosed with it back in the 1980s. He does have it, and you know (INAUDIBLE)

REV. JESSE JACKSON, RAINBOW/PUSH COALITION: He had a terrible fall sometime back, and then another fall in the shower, and he periodically has these back spasms. I am sure that the stress and anxiety of this period is a factor, but his physical pain is real.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Jackson, are you all right? And he looked in our direction, but really couldn`t focus or didn`t focus on us. And then I said...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He Looked a little dehydrated and that he needed some electrolytes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael Jackson is fine. He was not hospitalized and he was here in court on time, and now he`s on his way home. And hopefully, you know, his dehydration problem will be resolved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: It`s funny that all those press conferences about illnesses, dehydration, back problems, you name it, are always in front of a courthouse. And tonight we hear that Jackson is back -- oh! -- back in the hospital.

Out to you, investigative reporter Jane Velez-Mitchell. Does it have anything to do with at least two lawsuits that I know of pending against Michael Jackson?

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, Nancy, that is a very, very good guess. As you mentioned, reports that Michael Jackson has been hospitalized in Las Vegas with pneumonia, and is he very well known for being hospitalized. He was hospitalized many times during his child molestation trial up in Santa Maria. We were all there staked out outside the hospital on many nights. Now, his spokeswoman, Raymone Bain, says in this particular case, she insists, no, he does not have pneumonia and he was not hospitalized.

I have to tell you, though, there have been concerns about his health since he was sued by a Beverly Hills pharmacy back in January. They allege he had accumulated $101,000 in unpaid bills for prescription medications. That suit settled, but it certainly raises the question of what`s the state of his health and why did he need to get that much, $101,000, in prescription medications reportedly over about two years?

GRACE: And Jane Velez-Mitchell, not only is the Mickey Fine pharmacy there in Beverly Hills suing him for over $10,000 in back pay for prescription medication, but also, just filed last month, according to the Associated Press, the family of Manuela Gomez Ruiz, a grandmother age 73 -- her family is suing, claiming that when Michael Jackson got sick with the flu in the middle of his trial and had to go in the hospital, she was moved. She was in a life-threatening situation, and they claim because of that move, she died later on in the afternoon. Remember that, Jane?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, absolutely. We were all there outside the hotel (SIC). I spoke with that lady and that family`s attorney, and they were outraged because, essentially, they accuse the hospital of giving Michael Jackson the star treatment and moving sicker patients so that he could have more room and have a better space during his hospitalization. And this woman ultimately died. This family was totally devastated by that, completely, completely wrecked emotionally.

GRACE: And of course, after the judge in that case issued a warrant for Jackson`s arrest, Michael Jackson miraculously felt much better and showed up for court in his pajamas. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael Jackson looks like he is clearly in distress. His hair was not combed. He was not wearing his impeccable costumes today. His demeanor seemed to have him listing to the left a little bit, as if he`s having a lower back problem.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael Jackson arrived at court an hour and 40 minutes late. He was wearing a white collarless shirt, buttoned-down, a very simple black blazer and what appeared to be pajama bottoms.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was one of the two people standing pool here when Michael Jackson came in. And when he came in, we were, oh, 20 feet away. And as he slowly walked by, I said, Mr. Jackson, are you all right? And he looked in our direction but really couldn`t focus or didn`t focus on us. And then I said, Are you OK? And he just slowly moved in. He was clearly in distress, clearly in pain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Well, when you don`t know a horse, Jane Velez-Mitchell, you look at the track record. Remember the big lawsuit with the Israeli businessman after two huge Y2K concerts fizzled? That lawsuit to the tune of $200 million was put on hold when Michael Jackson said he was bitten by a spider and showed up with a giant cast.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.

GRACE: That`s not all. Remember, the first round of child molestation charges that we know of, instead of coming back into the country, he allegedly went into rehab in London. Remember that?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes. Absolutely. He was, I believe, on his "Dangerous" tour, aptly named, and he was scheduled to make a stop in Puerto Rico, which, of course, is a commonwealth of the United States, and there was speculation that he was concerned that he could be picked up there. At that point, he announced that he had developed an addiction to painkillers, which he traced back to the mid-`80s, when he was shooting a Pepsi commercial and he burned his scalp and had to have major surgery on his scalp. And he said because of the intense pain of that, he developed an addiction to painkillers. He was flown, I believe with the help of Elizabeth Taylor, to London and went into rehab there.

GRACE: Is that just before -- no, let`s see. That`s after the Pepsi commercial. What about the London rehab when the first child molestation charges came around?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s what happened. In 1993, when he was on that tour, he stopped the tour in progress and said, Hey, I`m an addict. I developed this addiction to pain medication. And he traced it back to about a decade earlier, saying, It all started when I had that Pepsi commercial and I burned my scalp, and ever since then, there`s been so much pain. And he also attributed it to the stress of the allegations that were being leveled against him.

GRACE: The lawsuit. Breaking news tonight. Music icon Michael Jackson, of course, beat the rap on child molestation charges out in California, but tonight reports surface he is in the hospital. With his track record, could a lawsuit be following? Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There have been instances when he`s had to perform on stage, and he was upset about one thing or another, and he would have a panic attack and actually has been hospitalized. I can tell you from my own sources in the Jackson camp that he is very sick right now and has been for quite some time. It is the back. It`s not an exaggeration.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vitiligo is a true condition. It`s not -- it`s not a made-up Michael Jackson fantasy. He was diagnosed with it back in the 1980s. He does have it, and you know, it is an issue in his life.

REV. JESSE JACKSON: Michael is in excruciating pain. He had a terrible fall sometime back, and then another fall in the shower, and he periodically has these back spasms. I am sure that the stress and anxiety of this period is a factor, but his physical pain is real. As we talked and prayed last night, want (ph) to see Michael remissing (ph). But having said that, he is amazingly resolute and strong in his convictions of his innocence, feels a terrible sense of injustice that`s been heaped up on him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK. To you, Brian Oxman, Jackson family attorney. Is the Reverend Jesse Jackson right, or is Jane Velez-Mitchell right? Is it because of this unusual scalp problem or because of back spasms due to falls in the shower, Brian?

BRIAN OXMAN, JACKSON FAMILY ATTORNEY: Jane and Nancy, sometimes people have these health problems and they can`t do much about it. Sometimes they`re caught in their pajamas and sometimes they`re even caught in a sweatshirt when they have to come to the NANCY GRACE show.

(LAUGHTER)

OXMAN: Michael always has these kinds of situations in his life. He`s a trooper. He is there to perform when he needs to be. He has a little case of the flu. His children also have the flu. But he has not been hospitalized and he does not have pneumonia.

GRACE: Now, didn`t you say that last time?

OXMAN: I think that he is doing the very best that he can and he always has.

GRACE: No, no, no. No, I mean you, Brian Oxman. Didn`t you say that last time he went to the hospital?

OXMAN: He did not have a case of pneumonia last time that he went to the hospital. I think you`re referring to the incident in Santa Maria, where he had a case of the flu, and this lawsuit involving the Ortiz (SIC) family has arisen from that. I was there. I`m going to probably be a witness in that particular lawsuit.

GRACE: And what will your testimony be? We are talking about a case filed by the family of a 73-year-old woman. Her name, Manuela Gomez Ruiz. She claims that because Michael Jackson got preferential treatment -- her family does, anyway -- she was shuttled off in the midst of a life- threatening illness, and she, in fact, died after being shuttled around the hospital to help have Michael Jackson have a more comfortable room. What will your testimony be, Brian?

OXMAN: I did not approve of the manner in which the hospital conducted itself in shuttling her around. I think that was inappropriate. But I do know that it was not Michael`s request or anybody on his team. Certainly, it was not my request that they do so.

GRACE: Now, was that the incident during the trial?

OXMAN: This was during the trial. His brother, Randy, came to the hospital. We were very concerned about Michael. He had a case of the flu and he was unable to really breathe well, but he did not have pneumonia on that particular occasion.

GRACE: Now, is that the time he was waving out the window from the hospital room, or is that the time he showed up in his pajamas?

OXMAN: That is the time he was waving from the hospital room.

GRACE: Let`s go to the lines. Out to Maryanne in Pennsylvania. Hi, Maryanne.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Nancy. Great show. Enjoy watching you.

GRACE: Thank you, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is this. Has anyone ever thought of the possibility that his illness is anorexia? He looks like a person with an eating disorder. Of course, one of his spokespeople said that it was for electrolytes, which is common for that. His clothes always seem to be so big on him, and his face, you can see the bones.

GRACE: Well, you know, Maryanne, that`s an excellent point.

Let`s go out to Dr. Jennifer Shu joining us tonight. Doctor, I don`t know if it`s the anorexia, as Maryanne would suggest, the back ailment, as Reverend Jesse Jackson would suggest, or the flu, or maybe it`s one of these two lawsuits he`s looking at right now. But what about anorexia?

DR. JENNIFER SHU, PEDIATRICIAN: You know, it`s hard to say from just looking at him, Nancy, but if he does have anorexia, his body could be weakened. And that type of weakened immune system could make him more likely to get things like pneumonia or influenza, which is just a really severe virus that can make you feel really crummy, with a high fever, chills, cough, runny nose, headaches and body aches all over.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Carmen St. George out of the New York jurisdiction, and veteran defense attorney Michael Cardoza joining us out of San Francisco. Welcome, colleagues.

Michael, you know, when I was running a courtroom, on the second time someone had an illness and couldn`t come to court, the judge would demand a doctor`s order. You know, these two lawsuits are pending right now against Michael Jackson. Looking at his track record, what do you think?

MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`ll tell you what, if he`s playing the sick card right now, it`s a little too soon in these lawsuits, so I`m not sure that`s related at all to the lawsuits.

But I do love the one where Ms. Ruiz is suing him for the hospital moving her around. Boy, I`ll tell you what, good luck to them proving that that was the cause that she passed away. They better have some pretty darn good experts to say because the hospital moved her, that caused her death, or at least a part of the causation.

And secondly, what`s she going after Jackson for? That`s like walking into a restaurant and being a big star like you, Nancy, and having somebody, you know, say, A table -- let`s put her there, you people move over here. Come on. You don`t control that.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: I haven`t walked in on crutches claiming spider bite. What about that, Carmen? I mean, at a certain point, it`s contempt of court. Have you seen him on crutches with the big -- the big cast on the foot, claiming spider bite in the middle of a multi-million-dollar lawsuit, when he was a no-show at two New Year`s Eve concerts? Spider bite. That was creative.

CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, We were all sitting here when he -- I think it was almost psychosomatic when he was injured during the trial last time. And perhaps this is the onset of it.

I think that the Ruiz family lawsuit is very interesting, though, because it`s filed two years almost after the incident. And I agree, I don`t know why Michael Jackson is a target, other than deep pockets.

GRACE: Other than he may have -- he and his camp may have been the ones to demand certain treatment within a hospital to the detriment of a 73-year-old woman.

CARDOZA: So what?

GRACE: So what? You know what?

CARDOZA: So what if they made demands?

GRACE: You know what? She`s dead. And if they can show a nexus in a courtroom, a jury may believe it.

I want to go out to a shrink joining us tonight, psychoanalyst Bethany Marshall, also author. Bethany, shrink it.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: OK. Well, your guest just now brought up the fact that it could be psychosomatic. I think perhaps he really does have back pain. Maybe he did have a spider bite. Maybe he does have influenza. Maybe his scalp did get burned. Maybe he does have past drug addiction problems, or current. But the fact is, he uses these in the service of avoidance.

Let`s say if he has to avoid a lawsuit and he`s about to have panic attack, he may actually indulge that panic attack rather than take a Klonapin or a benzodiazepine or something to calm himself down so that he could get to court. And that`s the basis of malingering. The person may have very real symptoms, but they`re using those symptoms in a very manipulative kind of way.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Louis in New Jersey. Hi, Louis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How`re you doing tonight?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could Michael Jackson`s condition be with regard to withdrawal from painkillers?

GRACE: Interesting. You know, Brian Oxman, he did enter -- Brian Oxman, everyone, the Jackson family attorney, long-time Jackson family attorney. He has entered rehab before. He has discussed addiction to prescription painkillers.

OXMAN: Well, Nancy, when we heard about this report that he was hospitalized, the concern became, Oh, my goodness, this is how the Anna Nicole report first came, that she had been taken to the hospital because of some kind of pneumonia. It is a concern that everyone has in this family. We wish Michael to be well. We want him to get to work again. And I think what we`re going to see in the next few months is that he is going to be coming out strong, and he is going to be performing and working, and I hope it`s going to be with the entire family.

GRACE: Well, speaking of that, we have just learned tonight that not only are there reports he`s in a Las Vegas hospital, we also learned that he is kicking off an official tour in Las Vegas, the "Live Forever" tour. That was just announced as we went to air. So Las Vegas seems to be the hotspot for Michael Jackson right now, whether it`s on the stage or in a hospital or the courtroom.

Very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert." Two missing Washington state children, a 4-year-old, a 2-year-old, found alive. Police arrest the abductor, the children`s own disturbed father. Thirty-four-year-old John Baugher leads police on a nationwide a manhunt, the car abandoned with coats and toys inside, near the Canadian border. Then spotted on grainy surveillance video at two different locations in Montana, the children`s appearance altered for disguise, their hair chopped off and dyed.

Today police hone in on a Greyhound bus outside Denver, arresting the father. The 4-year-old and 2-year-old reunite with their mom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A parent`s nightmare. You drop your toddler off at day care, until you have to rush back almost immediately when you get a call from police. Police acting on an anonymous tip show up at a day care rated four out of five stars to find ammo, guns, rifles and pot.

Out to you, Brandee Hayhurst, a reporter with "The Burlington Times News." What happened?

BRANDEE HAYHURST, "BURLINGTON TIMES NEWS": We got a call from someone in the community on March 16 -- that`s the Friday before last -- that the police were out at Peasepot`s (ph) a day care home. The police told us that...

GRACE: Holy moley! Look at these guns! Go ahead, Brandee.

HAYHURST: Yes. Well, originally, the police received an anonymous tip that someone suspected marijuana was being smoked in the home, so they went out there with a social worker and I believe someone from the state Division of Child Development. They spoke with the owner, Ms. Theresa Boyd, and she admitted that she had smoked marijuana that morning while caring for the children. And at that point, the police searched the home.

GRACE: To Melanie Streeper, investigative reporter. What else can you tell us, Melanie?

MELANIE STREEPER, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Sure, Nancy. Once they came to the residence, they also seized four ounces of marijuana from Theresa Boyd, so she actually handed over the pot to investigators.

GRACE: Take a look at this, Melanie! There`s the baby asleep under the guns, and above his head is a pillowcase full of ammo and rifles. This from a state-approved day care.

We`ll be right back. We`re taking your calls.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: That`s right, marijuana, guns, rifles, ammo, and that`s not all, found at a local day care in Carolina. Incredible!

I want to go back to you, Melanie Streeper, investigative reporter. Aren`t you forgetting something? Think iguana, rabbit, dog feces.

STREEPER: Yes. Absolutely. Investigators say it smelled like a zoo in there. The kids were really in squalor conditions. They had iguanas, as you mentioned, dogs, animal feces. Again -- and Also want to point out that the suspect admittedly said that she smoked marijuana that morning that they came there, on Saturday.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Gillian in Canada. Hi, Gillian.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. You`re beautiful. Love your show.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The question is, do not these parents, like, ever go in there and have a look around, first of all, when they`re going to take their child into the day care, like, in their -- you know...

GRACE: You know, I would think so, Gillian in Canada. To you, Bethany Marshall. Yes, this lady needs to be behind bars tonight, but what about the parents?

MARSHALL: I think the parents have some complicity, too, because I want to tell you, these children were marks. They were just marks for money. And didn`t the parents feel that when they took the children to the child care? Didn`t they feel that this woman was just out for the money? Didn`t they notice dilated pupils? I mean, marijuana smoke, that`s pretty easy to smell.

GRACE: Look at the sleeping baby right below the rifles. Look at that!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A North Carolina daycare owner facing serious gun and drug charges after Graham police received a tip her home-run child care facility loaded with guns and marijuana. Officers arrive on scene and find not only handguns, rifles, ammunition, and what they describe as an indoor zoo of animals, but also seven young toddlers inside, one of them even sleeping on a makeshift pillow, a bag full of guns, and more weapons rest on a gun rack above the child`s head.

The state division of child development has suspended owner Theresa Boyd`s daycare license, but just last year her daycare passed two inspections with flying colors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Suspended her license? I guess so. My only question is, why did they give her a license at all?

Out to Lieutenant Jeff Prichard with the Graham police, everyone, we`re talking about T`s Tot`s daycare in Graham, North Carolina. What, is the woman in the militia, for Pete`s sake? Police found an arsenal of weapons, ammo. Look at this, marijuana. They could hardly see through all the smoke when they responded to an anonymous tipster.

Out to you, Lieutenant Prichard. Thank you for being with us. I`ve seen a lot, but I`ve never seen a toddler asleep on a makeshift pillow made of guns.

CAPT. JEFF PRICHARD, GRAHAM POLICE DEPARTMENT: Yes, Nancy, it was a shock for us, too. That black bag you see above the picture that you flashed a minute ago actually had two or three pistols in it.

GRACE: Holy moly. Now, I don`t understand, number one, why parents don`t tour through where their children are staying, but I want to push -- I don`t want to push the blame off on the parents tonight. This looks like one of those militia arsenals, Lieutenant.

PRICHARD: Yes, they did have a large number of weapons. It`s not typical definitely to see those in a daycare, much less the average gun collector. They had several, 14 rifles and six handguns on the premises.

GRACE: And, Lieutenant, authorities were tipped off by an anonymous tipster, is my understanding.

PRICHARD: Yes, I was actually the one who took the call at the police department that day, that this person was concerned that this suspicious activity was going on that needed to be investigated.

GRACE: Are you captain or lieutenant, sir?

PRICHARD: I`m the captain.

GRACE: OK. Sorry about that, Captain.

PRICHARD: No problem.

GRACE: Captain, what all did authorities find when they got there?

PRICHARD: Initially, they found -- Ms. Boyd came to the door. She was rather shaken to see our representatives there on her front doorstep. And she immediately went inside to shut the door where she had reportedly been smoking marijuana just prior to our arrival. Once inside, they found numerous weapons and four ounces of marijuana, as well as several animals, an iguana, a Chihuahua, rabbits, and all sorts of animals running freely throughout the house.

GRACE: It`s also my understanding there was dog feces on the floor where the children could play?

PRICHARD: Yes, according to my investigators that were on the scene, they said there was quite a bit of that type of thing going on there. It was very alarming to all that were there to investigate.

GRACE: How can you get a daycare license when you`ve got a record like this, Captain?

PRICHARD: I can`t answer that one, Nancy.

GRACE: You know what? You`re right. You`re not in charge of the daycare licensing facilities. Have you ever seen anything like it, Captain?

PRICHARD: This is the worst I`ve ever seen, Nancy.

GRACE: Good lord in Heaven.

Out to you, joining us tonight, Trenny Stovall, child advocate and attorney, Trenny, it is amazing to me you`d let a child sleep on a pillow, literally a pillow case stuffed with guns.

TRENNY STOVALL, CHILD CUSTODY ADVOCATE: It is unbelievable. And while the daycare provider is responsible, the parents are responsible. You don`t just go in, investigate a place where you take your child there. You need to make surprise inspections all the time.

And that goes for that state agency that`s supposed to oversee this, that approved this place twice last year, they are complicit here, and this is another example of a state agency who is not protecting children.

Just as much, these children are in serious danger here. This woman should be charged with child endangerment, not to mention all the crimes that she`s committed by possession of these weapons, and drugs, with intent, all of that. And these children are unsafe. These parents are responsible, but I`m really concerned about this agency. And what else is happening in North Carolina where people are being approved to care for children? What`s going on?

GRACE: Well, you know, earlier, Dr. Bethany Marshall mentioned that these children were just marks for her to make money. Explain how that works, Trenny, with the government?

STOVALL: The more children you care for, when you`re a state provider, especially children that have some association with the state, you can get additional assistance for every child that you provide care for.

The state pays for daycare, especially for children who are recently returned from foster care or they`re in foster placement. The state pays for this. And a lot of times, there`s kind of a relationship between the provider and the parent or the guardian, that they kind of split the fees, reduce the fees, charge more, and then kick back some money, so there are ways to make money off the state.

And I`m concerned about that and whether or not those licensers were involved, too, because I cannot believe that no one could have come in that home and seen all of that. It`s impossible.

GRACE: Back to you, Captain Jeff Prichard with the Graham Police Department, did she state who all these guns, these long guns, belonged to?

PRICHARD: No, I don`t know that she stated, Nancy, but she was charged with having weapons easily accessible to minors, which is a misdemeanor charge here in North Carolina.

GRACE: Uh oh, that only means 12 months probation. What else was she charged with?

PRICHARD: She was also charged with felony possession of marijuana, manufacturing controlled substance in a child care center, and maintaining a dwelling or a place for controlled substance.

GRACE: Question, did you say intent to distribute marijuana?

PRICHARD: Yes, felony possession of marijuana and manufacturing -- yes, maintaining a dwelling place for controlled substance.

GRACE: How much do you have to have in your jurisdiction for marijuana to be a felony?

PRICHARD: You have to have more than 49 grams.

GRACE: Well, there you see it. Take a look at this, marijuana by the stack.

To you, Bethany Marshall, very disturbing how you could have children lying next to guns, ammo, marijuana. The frame of mind she must be in.

MARSHALL: Well, I don`t think this place was really about children. It was some type -- cult is too strong a word -- an organization that manufactured drugs, sort of maybe an anti-government using the guns to sort of express some kind of anti-government wish.

So this place was not about children. It was just making barely enough money off the children to support other endeavors, and that`s what I wonder, if the parents were complicit in that, the parents complicit in terms of taking their kids into a low-rent situation. And did they know about the drug manufacturing, the gun use? Was there some kind of organization sprouting around this so-called daycare center?

GRACE: Out to Angela in Kentucky. Hi, Angela.

CALLER: Hello, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

CALLER: Working in a daycare, I know that the state agencies come in and inspect everything thoroughly. And I wonder if the state can`t be held liable for submitting a fraudulent report, knowing that those guns and everything were there. They had to have been there when they came in and inspected everything.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us, Carmen St. George and Michael Cardoza. Michael, it`s really difficult to sue the government under sovereign immunity. Explain.

MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I`ll tell you, it`s government immunity, just like you say. Can you go after the government in a case like this? No. And the caller is making an assumption that the weapons were there, the drugs were there. We don`t know that. We`ve got to assume.

GRACE: Well, I`ve got a picture, Michael. Open your eyes. Can you see that...

(CROSSTALK)

CARDOZA: Oh, come on, Nancy, I see them, but those guns can be moved and moved back. And the other thing -- we don`t know if they`re operable, too. I mean, all those things have to be proved.

GRACE: Michael...

CARDOZA: Go ahead, Nance.

GRACE: Elizabeth, can you show Michael the picture of the baby sleeping under the guns?

CARDOZA: OK, fine. Are they operable, number one? That has yet to be proved.

Then one thing that I find a little misleading, it says more than four ounces, but you guys are showing on the screen pounds and pounds of marijuana. Is that what they found? Or did they merely find four ounces?

But getting back to the government immunity issue, they`re not going to be able to go after the government unless they can prove that that was wonton and willful neglect on somebody`s part working for the government, that they knew the weapons were there. But to sue the government generally, not a chance.

GRACE: Carmen St. George, I`m intrigued by Michael Cardoza`s defense that maybe the guns weren`t operable. Thoughts?

CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, that`s a good point. I think, also, we don`t know when in time...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: That`s the best you two have got, maybe the guns don`t work?

(CROSSTALK)

CARDOZA: If they don`t work, they don`t make a darn bit of difference then.

GRACE: Captain Prichard, were the guns operable?

ST. GEORGE: They probably don`t even have to test that.

GRACE: You`re not Captain Prichard. Captain?

PRICHARD: We certainly didn`t test fire any weapons, Nancy, but there was no indication that the weapons -- they had ammunition for all the weapons there, as well, and, no, the weapons weren`t in any disrepair to look like they would not be operable.

GRACE: OK, guys, you got to do better than maybe the guns don`t work.

It`s simple trial 101, the theory of endangerment. That`s an umbrella charge, child endangerment, covering abuse, neglect, and enticement.

When we come back, three infants found abandoned in California, 11 months apart, left in the open to survive. Now we know all from the same mother.

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(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was on the night of December 3, 2006, that a newborn baby girl was found in the back of this pickup truck in Maria Pena`s driveway.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I never checked the pickup. I never did. I wish I would have.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The newborn, now named Angelita de Orosi, or Little Angel of Orosi, is the third child since February 2005 left in this neighborhood. Now, DNA shows all three have the same mother.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t understand her. I can`t. I don`t know why she would do something like that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When the community did find these babies, they were very frustrated and hurt and confused as to why it kept happening, and it gives her something that`s attached to this community.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel that she is very, very heart-broken. She must be feeling bad. I hope she finds a little peace in herself. As her grandfather, I thought I`d pay my respects.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Three children left abandoned out in the open. Now DNA results show they`re all from the same mother, each 11 months apart, one, two, three. The third died. One baby found swaddled in a blanket, its umbilical cord hanging from it out on a park bench. Why?

Out to David Castellon with "Visalia Times-Delta," David, thank you for being with us. What happened?

DAVID CASTELLON, REPORTER, "VISALIA TIMES-DELTA": Well, that night that police get a call of that they found this baby in a pickup truck, a family was out just doing things that families do. A young teenage boy went out to look for something in the pickup truck, and he found this baby swaddled in a sweat jacket.

The authorities aren`t completely sure how long the baby was there, but I`m told by Ms. Pena, who you interviewed, that she had seen the swaddling there in the truck maybe three, three-and-a-half hours prior to the baby being discovered, not realizing it was a baby.

And so we don`t know when the baby was put there. You know, it was a very cold period in this area at the time. We had temperatures of a high about 63 degrees, down to about 28. The baby could have been left there in the morning. In the other two cases, the baby were left in the early morning.

One person found the baby, the first baby. He was out throwing the trash, like you would any other morning. He saw a pile of rags on a bench in front of his house, and he didn`t think anything at first, but then he saw a little arm sticking out. Having not noticed the arm, he might have gone in, gone about his business, and left for the day.

GRACE: To you, Melanie Streeper, investigative reporter, two of the babies survived, the last one dead from exposure. Now DNA is linking all three to the same mother, I understand two of them to the same father.

MELANIE STREEPER, KTRS RADIO: Yes, that`s right. The older two, the boy and the girl, who, I believe, is a year old, they actually have the same father. This baby, Angelita, the one who died, actually had a different father.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We never checked the pickup. I never did. I wish I would have. I can`t understand her. I can`t. I don`t know why she would do something like that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When the community did find these babies, they were very frustrated and hurt and confused as to why it kept happening, and it gives her something that`s attached to this community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Joining us right now, Sergeant Chris Douglass. Sergeant, thank you for being with us. Where exactly was the third baby found?

SGT. CHRIS DOUGLASS, TULARE COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: The third baby found was found in the bed of a pickup truck at the corner of Sequoia Avenue and Road 124 in Orosi.

GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines. Terri in Arkansas, hi, Terri.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. Love you and love your show.

GRACE: Well, thank you, Terri in Arkansas. What`s your question, dear?

CALLER: My question is, if the authorities are able to apprehend a person or the persons responsible for the cause of this baby`s death, can they be prosecuted? Shouldn`t they be prosecuted?

GRACE: Interesting. Interesting.

To you, Sergeant Chris Douglass. Have they determined who the mother is? Do they even have an idea? And are we sure all three babies are from the same mom?

DOUGLASS: With the DNA information that we received back, the percentage is so high, the verbiage they wanted us to use was "extreme high probability" they`re all the same mother.

As far as criminal charges, we`re not going to know exactly what those could be until we find out the circumstances as to why those babies were left there. We don`t know who`s leaving them there. We don`t know if somebody is taking them and leaving them there.

We don`t know the circumstances yet. Until we can find that out, then we`ll be able to determine if charges should be placed.

GRACE: If the mother is responsible -- I mean, one of the children, if not all three, still had the umbilical cord attached. If the mother had a role in this, can she face criminal charges?

DOUGLASS: That is one possibility. Again, we won`t know that until we find out the circumstances.

GRACE: Joining us now, Michael Morrisey with Baby Safe-Haven in New England. Michael, it didn`t have to be this way. This baby did not have to die. Do you know how many thousands of parents would love to take a newborn baby home, and love it, just like it was their own flesh and blood?

MICHAEL MORRISEY, BABY SAFE-HAVEN: I know a few personally myself, and I`m not even counting, but this absolutely didn`t have to happen. Forty-seven states have safe haven laws. California`s is, what, six years old. So any hospital in almost all counties, any police or fire station, fire station or combined safety building, this woman could have gone and handed the baby to a policeman, fireman, or a nurse, walked away, and we`d never have the problems that we have.

GRACE: We`re showing you pictures of babies saved through baby safe havens all over this country. Look at these little angels. They were abandoned, but at a safe haven, and now they are thriving. What were her choices, Michael?

MORRISEY: Well, she could have gone to a hospital in California the first 72 hours and handed the baby to anybody in the hospital, just get in the door. I always say put a hooded sweatshirt over your head so you don`t have to be identified if you want. Just get the baby and give it to the hands of somebody that will take care of that child and make sure that it`s safe. And then you can walk away.

GRACE: Back to David Castellon with the "Visalia Times-Delta," question. Have they determined how long the baby was alive before she died?

CASTELLON: No. They`re pretty sure she was 12 to 24 hours old, but, really, at least based on what the sheriff`s office has told us, we don`t really know for sure.

One of the things to note about the safe haven law is, before this happened, the only designated places in our county to drop off a child was at the hospital. But since then, almost all the fire stations in the county have been designated as safe haven drop-off places, which is about 30 stations.

GRACE: Melanie Streeper, do police have any leads?

STREEPER: They do not, Nancy. They have no idea who the mom or the dad is in this particular case. You know, lots of suspicions from people who live there. They believe that this person could actually be from out of town, because it is such a close-knit community.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Tulare County Sheriff`s Department wants to know who the children`s mother is. The department is now offering a $5,000 reward to anyone with information.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is at least one person who knows what`s happening and the circumstances as to why it`s happening this way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Every 11 months, another newborn abandoned. Out to the lines, Lorraine in Massachusetts. Hi, Lorraine.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I love you so much. Every night I watch you.

GRACE: Bless you. What`s your question?

CALLER: Oh, yes, the question, basically, is, do they check the databases of all the -- across the United States for the -- to check the...

GRACE: DNA?

CALLER: Yes.

GRACE: Good question. I think DNA banks are really only there for offenders. So unless the mom has some type of a criminal history, we`re not going to get it.

To Dr. Jennifer Shu, are you surprised the babies could survive? One`s temperature was 85 degrees.

DR. JENNIFER SHU, PEDIATRICIAN: That is surprising, Nancy, but babies are a lot tougher than you might think. And some babies can live a day or two or even a week or more, as long as they`re warm, so there are a few things that can go wrong.

Being cold is one of them; that can cause your heart to stop. Not having breast milk or formula, nutrition can also cause your blood sugar to drop and put you into seizures. If...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: So it`s really a miracle that the baby -- the other two babies survived. Hey, she`s probably pregnant right now. She`s leaving a baby abandoned every 11 months.

Let`s stop to remember Army Private First Class John Landry, 20, Lowell, Massachusetts, killed, Iraq. A high school honor student and football player, he turned down a scholarship to enlist. He leaves behind a grieving family, John and Pamela, parents, sister, Brittany, John Landry, American hero.

Big happy birthday tonight to Shirley Lusvater (ph). We`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Good night, friend.

END