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Nancy Grace
Still No Word on Dannielynn Paternity From Bahamas Court
Aired April 03, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DIANE DIMOND, GUEST HOST: Tonight: If the gears of justice grind slowly here in America, how would you describe what they do in the Bahamas? Another day, another DNA hearing on Anna Nicole Smith`s baby daughter, still no announcement about those long-completed DNA tests. What is taking so long? Who is this baby`s daddy? We`re on the ground in the Bahamas with the latest.
Also, a closer look at what happens once the DNA results are out. What happens to little Dannielynn Smith? At least four men say they could be the father, and her grandmother wants custody, too. How long can the fight go on for this child?
Also tonight, the colorful, controversial and tearful Florida judge who sent Anna Nicole`s body to the Bahamas for burial -- is he about to have his own TV show?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mum is still the word here in the Bahamas. All the attorneys came out of the court, said that the DNA results had not been revealed. But Larry Birkhead`s attorney, Emerick Knowles, did say that things went very much in favor of his client.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Did anything happen in Larry Birkhead`s favor today at all?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, everything happened in his favor today.
BROOKS: And can you comment on what exactly that was?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I can`t say.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it related to the paternity dispute?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is what this case is about.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Also, Virgie Arthur, who was also in on this proceeding -- of course, the mother of Anna Nicole Smith -- she said she would like to be able to tell us what went on in court, but she can`t because there is a gag order.
BROOKS: Virgie, what happened today?
VIRGIE ARTHUR, ANNA NICOLE`S MOTHER: You know we can`t talk about it, and y`all keep asking. I know y`all want to know. And I want to tell everybody, but we can`t.
BROOKS: Anything on guardianship at all, Virgie?
ARTHUR: Can`t talk about it, sweetie. Sorry.
BROOKS: (INAUDIBLE)
ARTHUR: (INAUDIBLE) pray for me and my grandbaby, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No final word on who`s the daddy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIMOND: Good evening. I`m Diane Dimond, in for Nancy Grace tonight. It`s like "hurry up and wait" time in the Bahamas, as yet another DNA paternity hearing in the Anna Nicole Smith case came and went today with no definitive news.
Our eyes and ears outside that courthouse today, Mike Brooks. Mike, what was the hold-up today? And when does this court come back?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Well, I`ll tell you what, Diane, it seems like the court system here in the Bahamas has two speeds, slow and stop.
(LAUGHTER)
BROOKS: But the much anticipated DNA hearing, the paternity hearing today -- well, we thought -- we thought we may find out finally who the father of Dannielynn is.
Well, I`ve spoke with the attorneys after they were in the courthouse for about two hours because it`s closed to the public and also closed to the press. First of all, Mr. Damian Gomez (ph), the attorney for Howard K. Stern, came out. He didn`t have much at all to say. Next was Emerick Knowles. He`s the attorney for Larry Birkhead. He seemed a little more, I guess, optimistic, I would say.
And then Virgie Arthur, who`s the mother of Anna Nicole and the grandmother of Dannielynn. She came out and she was in a great mood and better than I`ve seen her in a long time because, you know, she still has a dog in the fight, if you will, when it comes to guardianship.
Let`s hear what they had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: So what was resolved today, anything at all?
UNIDENTIFIED: I can`t comment on that.
BROOKS: Was there any guardianship issues that were brought up at all today (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can`t comment on that.
BROOKS: And no DNA results.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: None yet.
BROOKS: None yet. But you expect them on -- do you expect DNA results on Tuesday?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can`t comment on that.
BROOKS: Did anything happen in Larry Birkhead`s favor today at all, Mr. Knowles?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, everything happened in his favor today.
BROOKS: And can you comment on what exactly that was?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I can`t say.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was it related to the paternity issue?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, that is what this case is about.
(LAUGHTER)
BROOKS: So Virgie, what happened today?
ARTHUR: You know we can`t talk about it, and y`all keep asking. I know y`all want to know. And I want to tell everybody, but we can`t.
BROOKS: Anything on guardianship at all, Virgie?
ARTHUR: Can`t talk about it, sweetie. Sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
ARTHUR: (INAUDIBLE) pray for me and my grandbaby, please.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: So you heard what Emerick Knowles said, everything happened in his favor today. So you know, what does that mean? Now, there -- we heard that there was a possibility that they might go ahead and let the parties involved, the interested parties, as they call them here in the Bahamian court system, know exactly who the father is, and then maybe later certify it. It`s all speculation, Diane, but it doesn`t sound like that happened. But you know, Emerick Knowles was in such a good mood. And then Virgie -- she was -- she was very, very happy about something that happened today.
DIMOND: And she has been known to be pretty anti-Howard K. Stern. So boy, you were working it there, Mike, with -- boy, the questions were right on.
But with me here in the studio is Jean Casarez from Court TV. And Jean, I have to brag for you because I know you won`t do it, but you said this last night. You said your very good sources on this case told you we weren`t going to get DNA last night. You told our audience that last night.
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: That`s right. Well, I knew it. That is right. And of course, Dr. Baird (ph) is the one that performed the tests. He`s the expert from Ohio. And legally speaking, he would need to be there for the chain of custody issues and just so he could report his own findings. But I think that it will be sooner, rather than later, because we understand there`ll be a hearing next week.
DIMOND: You know, I want to quickly go out to Dr. Michael Hunter. He`s with us here. Now, Dr. Hunter, you`re familiar with this chain of custody issue, and that`s why this man from the lab has to be there, to show that he kept it under lock and key, it wasn`t tainted in any way. But you think it might be indicative, his having to appear there, of something much more interesting.
DR. MICHAEL HUNTER, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, certainly, chain of custody is an issue. But another reason why you would have him actually appear at a hearing is to explain in detail the testing that he did and what these results mean. Now, if he comes back with a test that`s negative, essentially ruling the party out, Mr. Birkhead out, then -- I mean, that`s pretty simple. You know, why would you make this trip to the Bahamas to simply say, Yes, indeed, he is not the father?
But if it`s positive, then you -- you get into a lot of complicating factors, and really, the question is, well, how positive is it? You`re never going to get 100 percent certainty when it comes to this type of testing in paternity. You`re going to get well over 99 percent, and that may need to be explained fully in the hearing.
DIMOND: Jean, do you agree with that, that the man is -- that the man is coming there to testify means it`s probably Larry Birkhead?
CASAREZ: Well, I think it could go either way. I truly do.
DIMOND: I do, too.
CASAREZ: But I think that the other side is going to have a lot of questions for him on his testing technique, to see if it was foolproof. And I think we all have to realize the reason probably the man, Dr. Baird, wasn`t here today -- there was an appeal as of yesterday morning by Howard K. Stern, and it was just out of the blue that he withdrew that appeal. So I think Dr. Baird and probably those representing Larry Birkhead believed that appeal would go forward.
DIMOND: Right. Now, back to you, Mike Brooks in the Bahamas. The next time that the DNA hearing is on is April 10, but April 11 is the day of the inquest into Daniel Smith`s death. Now, today in the Bahamas, there was some news about this in the local newspaper. Fill us in on that.
BROOKS: Well, actually, tomorrow is supposed to -- there is a report that`s supposed to come back. Now, last week, the coroner`s inquest, they went ahead and picked a jury. They have seven jurors that were sworn in. Then Mr. Munroe, who`s the attorney for Howard K. Stern, he says, Well, hold on a second, the Coroner`s Act is unconstitutional. And he wanted to have another court, the supreme court, right behind me here, take a look to see whether or not questions, specific questions, should be asked of the jurors because he felt that his -- his attorney -- or his client, I should say, was not going to get a fair shake from the people here in the Bahamas because if you talk to a lot of folks here, Diane, they don`t like Howard K. Stern.
But the article today that was in "The Tribune" talked -- yes?
DIMOND: No, go ahead, about the article...
BROOKS: I`m sorry.
DIMOND: ... in the paper today.
BROOKS: Oh, OK. The article in the paper today -- basically, there was a noted juror -- you know, jurist here, a jurist, a judge here in the Bahamas, who said this could go on for years. Now, if they come back tomorrow and say, Yes, there was a constitutional problem and we need to take a look at the Coroner`s Act, then it could be a long time...
DIMOND: Mike...
BROOKS: ... because what`ll happen is...
DIMOND: You`re killing me here. It could drag on for years? I mean, how long has she been dead? How long has Daniel been dead? What did they do wrong with this inquest procedure that it could go on for years?
BROOKS: Well, the Coroner`s Act has been in effect since 1910. I asked one of the attorneys involved in this. I said, Is the Coroner`s Act flawed? And it said it needs to be looked at. But what will happen is, if they need to change the constitution -- - the constitutionality of this Coroner`s Act, parliament here in the Bahamas will have to do that.
Now, there`s an election coming up here, and...
DIMOND: Oh, man!
BROOKS: ... and in a matter of days, there will be a proclamation read that basically parliament will be shut down and out of -- out of power, waiting for the new election. Then a new parliament will come in, and then...
(LAUGHTER)
BROOKS: As I said, things move slowly here. And then a new parliament will have to come in, and then it will have to be presented to them, and then they will have to look at the constitution, possibly revamp the whole Coroner`s Act, and that could take...
DIMOND: You`re killing me!
BROOKS: ... as this one jurist said, years.
DIMOND: You`re killing me. You`re killing me here. You know, I think -- I think the problem with this entire process is that they didn`t start it fast enough. I mean, the young boy died when, exactly, Jean?
CASAREZ: In September, I believe.
DIMOND: In September. And I think the original inquest procedure was set for the middle of October. Well, that came and went. Here we are in the middle of April. And by now, everyone in the Bahamas is somehow tainted by all of the news. But the thing that I wonder about -- if this inquest process has been so discombobulated -- let`s be kind and call it that -- I have to wonder why one particular witness is not on the list. And Jack -- I think maybe you have talked to some sources there in the Bahamas about it. His name is Jack Harding, and he is a private investigator that Daniel Smith allegedly went to and said, Help me investigate Howard K. Stern. Why isn`t that man on the list? Isn`t he important to how Daniel died?
BROOKS: I would say he is. In fact, there were investigators from the Bahamas that actually went to California and spoke with him because his business card was in some clothing that belonged to Daniel. So if he isn`t called, then one of the investigators who was there could possibly testify as to what he said.
But Judge Gomez, who is running -- who is the chief magistrate here in the Bahamas, who is running the coroner`s inquest, when it finally gets back on track -- he said that this is an investigation. This whole coroner`s inquest is an investigation. And there are 40 witnesses on the list. Now, they may not call 40, but sources close to the inquest tell me that there probably will be more than 40 because as they go along in this investigation, there might be leads that lead to other names, to other names, to other names that they may want to call as witnesses. And they`re saying that this could take four to six weeks. But you know, as things move slowly here, I think it could be even longer than that.
DIMOND: You know, Mike Brooks, when I look at this private investigator -- and Daniel went to him and said, I think my mother`s being mistreated by this man, given drugs, and then Daniel winds up dead a short time later -- I think that guy ought to be on the witness list.
But Jean, you talked to the magistrate, the inquest magistrate.
CASAREZ: I did, when I was over in the Bahamas for Court TV news, we all went to talk with Roger Gomez...
DIMOND: Right.
CASAREZ: ... the magistrate, my producers and I. And I was fascinated with Jack Harding, and so I asked Roger Gomez about Jack Harding, if he`s going to be a witness, and he told me he`d never heard of him before.
DIMOND: The judge said he`d never heard of...
(CROSSTALK)
DIMOND: The report is that four Bahamian investigators went to LA and talked to Jack Harding.
CASAREZ: Now, this is what I think the issue could be. The Royal Bahamian police force has been investigating all of this. Roger Gomez, of course, is the magistrate. So what I did, I went to another source I have deep into the case to find out about Jack Harding, and they confirmed with me that Jack Harding and Daniel knew each other and Daniel had gone to him. So I feel confident with that.
DIMOND: You have sources everywhere! I just love that.
OK, before we need to take a quick break here, I want to go out to John O`Quinn. He is Virgie Arthur`s attorney. And John, I know that you`re not in the Bahamas, and I know you can`t give us any massive amount of detail about what happened there. But have you talked to Virgie today? She sure looked happy when she came out of court.
JOHN O`QUINN, ATTORNEY FOR VIRGIE ARTHUR: She`s very happy, and primarily she`s happy because she`s becoming persuaded things are going to start happening that will result in this child, this 5, 6-month-old baby, getting to safety.
DIMOND: Yes. Has she seen the baby lately, Mr. O`Quinn?
O`QUINN: No, she hasn`t been permitted.
DIMOND: Just one time, is that right?
O`QUINN: One time. That`s all she`s been permitted, one time.
DIMOND: And can I ask you just for clarification -- she`s going after guardianship, visitations, full custody? What is it that your client wants?
O`QUINN: She wants guardianship, and she wants custody with whoever is the real father. She wants to have some participation in that -- as yet, they`re still battling over -- I mean, this is about delay. Stern has figured out -- and this tells you a lot about what Stern`s thinking. He wins with delay. He wins if no decision is made.
DIMOND: Yes. Yes.
O`QUINN: And that is a man who is not trying to get to the truth, he`s trying to win without the truth.
DIMOND: Well, you notice I`m not arguing with you there, Mr. O`Quinn.
All right, we`re going to take a quick break here, but first a "Case Alert," a shooting at the CNN Center today in Atlanta. It left one person dead, another in severely critical condition. Police say a male and a female were arguing inside the complex when the man pulled out a gun and shot her dead, the unidentified gunman then shot by a security guard and taken to a nearby hospital in police custody tonight, the female victim identified as 22-year-old Clara Riddles (ph), an employee at the Omni Hotel. That`s located inside the CNN complex.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At first, I thought that there (INAUDIBLE) building (INAUDIBLE) gunshots. And then somebody just grabbed me and said (INAUDIBLE) go under here to one of the doors, a little place (INAUDIBLE) eat. And they were all hiding underneath the back. And they said (INAUDIBLE) gunshots. So then I was very worried (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD K. STERN, ANNA NICOLE`S ATTORNEY/COMPANION: She was my best friend...
LARRY BIRKHEAD, ANNA NICOLE`S FORMER BOYFRIEND: I missed the delivery of my child.
PRINCE FREDERIC VON ANHALT, ZSA-ZSA GABOR`S HUSBAND: I don`t believe that one of the two is the father.
STERN: ... my lover, the mother of my daughter...
ANHALT: There could be 20 guys who claim to be the father of the child.
BIRKHEAD: I`ve had to call and send gifts, Fedex Christmas gifts.
ANHALT: I never claimed I`ll be the father of the child. I said I could be one of those.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any children?
BIRKHEAD: One.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How old?
BIRKHEAD: Five months, six months.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIMOND: I`m Diane Dimond, in for Nancy Grace tonight.
One of the next legal steps in the ongoing Anna Nicole Smith case, of course, the inquest into the death of her son, Daniel. Lots of criticism that it`s taken officials in the Bahamas way too long to get to this point. And by now, potential jurors have all been tainted with the news and the gossip about the case.
Lots of mysteries remain about Daniel`s young life and his death, and we`re going to take that up with Tom O`Neil from "In Touch Weekly" in just a moment. But Art Harris, investigative reporter Art Harris is with us now. And Art, if I`m reading this right, you got a little bit of breaking news here. Howard K. Stern has been such a punching bag, it`s like the great American pastime to get on his head. He`s ready to fight back, you say?
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well (INAUDIBLE) he`s -- he`s been a very vilified public figure, and in spite of Dr. Perper`s autopsy clearing him of any criminal charges, you know, people keep punching him. John O`Quinn keeps calling him, you know, big words and fighting words, in his opinion. And he`s retained or he`s trying to retain a very big libel, defamation lawyer named Lin Wood.
DIMOND: Oh, yes!
HARRIS: You know -- you may remember Lin from...
DIMOND: We know Lin Wood.
HARRIS: ... yes, from the Patsy Ramsey case. He was the attorney for the Ramseys when they came under the glare of public suspicion. He became the lawyer for Richard Jewell, who was the guard in the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta in 1996, a suspect, at least in the headlines. And when he took the case, he was able to fight back and get him a settlement from different people, as well as defend his name, and finally...
DIMOND: But -- oh, go ahead, Art.
HARRIS: So anyway -- so then the real killer was -- was arrested and convicted, Eric Rudolph. So this is -- this is a man who does not shy from defending people who come under attack and who essentially are underdogs. And I think that`s how he views Howard K. Stern, and their lawyers have been talking, and possibly by the end of the week, we will know if he`s going to represent him.
DIMOND: OK. Now, Lin Wood is a bulldog attorney, a very effective attorney. But we have, like, a minute here. Tell me, what does Howard K. Stern want Lin Wood to do?
HARRIS: Well, I think there are a number of people he believes have defamed him. And there`s also stolen property of Anna Nicole`s, the videotapes, the computers that...
DIMOND: Oh!
HARRIS: ... certain people took out of the house. And they are property of the estate, and in effect, Dannielynn. So these are things that -- that could be targets, rich targets of any defamation and libel suits.
DIMOND: But now, real quickly, Jean Casarez, some of that video that I bet he`s, you know, complaining about, the clownface video of Anna Nicole and whatnot, that was shown in open court. He hasn`t got a leg to stand on that.
CASAREZ: That was -- that was evidence in the courtroom, that`s right. It was played on the screen. Correct.
DIMOND: Yes. Jean Casarez, Court TV.
All right, to tonight`s "Case Alert." A Lafayette police officer arrested now in the search for a 911 dispatcher missing almost two weeks. Forty-one-year-old Theresa Parker last seen leaving her sister`s house in north Georgia Mach 21. Her police officer husband, Sam Parker, named a person of interest, but now another officer, Ben Chapin (ph), taken into custody for giving a false statement to police investigating Theresa`s disappearance. Husband`s still under the microscope, though. The couple, on the verge of a divorce, have a history of reported domestic disputes and mutual restraining orders.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Howard, when he`s around that baby, he treats her like gold. You know he`s going to take care of the baby like it`s his own.
BIRKHEAD: I`m just doing what I have to do for my daughter (INAUDIBLE) so I`m going to do whatever I have to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIMOND: Howard K. Stern has become a punching bag, and now he`s fighting back, according to Art Harris, saying now that he may hire a very high-profile attorney. If you want to hear more about this, go to Artharris.com.
Lots of mystery surrounding the death of Daniel Smith, and of course, there`s an inquest coming up. Tom O`Neil is from "In Touch Weekly." Let`s run down really quickly some of the mystery surrounding this death. First and foremost, Tom, I want to know, why does Anna Nicole Smith -- why is she quoted as saying after the death, You caused this? Was she talking to Howard Stern?
TOM O`NEIL, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": This is -- these are some of the mysteries that will finally be resolved, we hope, at the inquest. These are just reports now, so we have to be cautious. But maybe there`s some reason that Howard is presumably the last witness in this inquest, is that we can hear all these allegations. Remember, there`s another report from the hospital staff -- and I find it most interesting in the inquest that so many of the staffers are loaded up in the front part of this inquest. There`s a report from one of the nurses at the nursing station that after Howard picked up Daniel at the airport at 10:30 at night, that he went out for food for everybody to a local mini-mart and...
DIMOND: Yes, this is another mystery. Where was he? He came back without any food.
O`NEIL: The second time. He went out...
DIMOND: Yes.
O`NEIL: ... a second time in the middle of the night, between 2:00 and 4:00 AM, and then came back just hours before Daniel died. This is very strange. And the biggest mystery of all, I think, are these alleged bruises on Daniel`s body. Now...
DIMOND: Yes, mystery number three!
O`NEIL: Really, the initial police reports said there were no bruises on Daniel`s body. Now we`re hearing that there may actually have been bruises under the arm. There may have been on the hips and in the pelvis area, and that one doctor may testify in the inquest that these were not administered during the efforts to resuscitate him. There was 22 minutes...
DIMOND: Right. Right.
O`NEIL: ... after he was found dead that they worked on him.
DIMOND: And another big mystery, Tom O`Neil, "In Touch Weekly" -- did these two really hate each other, Howard K. Stern and Daniel Smith?
O`NEIL: Yes. From everything that we`re hearing. I mean, come on! Look, Daniel hires or tries to hire a private investigator on -- to sic onto Howard. And by the way...
DIMOND: Well, almost hired him, I guess.
O`NEIL: Almost hired him, or tried to anyway. By the way, Jack Harding told me the other day that he`s on stand-by for this case, that he`s willing to go down. He`s talked to Virgie`s people and may actually go. Yes, he`s waiting to hear if he`s needed.
And we hear reports from people like Jack and others that when Daniel tried to call the house and talk to his mother that Howard said, Hang up on him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY SEIDLIN, BROWARD COUNTY JUDGE: I don`t want to hear echo. I don`t need echo. I love clarity. When I speak, I`m the only voice I want to hear.
Dr. Pepper -- Perper is on the phone. Boy, can I destroy a name. The wheels of justice aren`t always round, those wheels. Sometimes they`re a little bit square. And I hope to God you guys give the kid the right shot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIMOND: I`m Diane Dimond in tonight for Nancy Grace. Well, Judge Larry Seidlin certainly has passion and enthusiasm and an interesting perspective on the law. But will he soon also have his own TV show? Reports that he`s making the rounds out there in Hollyweird are abounding.
Art Harris, come back in. What do you know about that?
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: I can say that I`ve seen those same reports, Diane. And I can tell you, one thing that I did talk to judge and his wife today, and they`re having a great time on vacation with their daughter at Disneyland. They`re out here on their own time, their own dime. And he loves California and loves being a judge. And I can`t really talk...
(CROSSTALK)
DIMOND: Yes, yes, Art, blah, blah, blah, blah. Art, in "Broadcasting and Cable" magazine, your name is mentioned, Art Harris, as someone who`s helping him get into syndicaters and go around to the lots and see if somebody wants to bid on a TV show with him.
HARRIS: I`ve read that, as well, Diane.
DIMOND: And are you telling me you have no comment?
HARRIS: You know, I really can`t talk about that at this time. I feel like a Bahamian lawyer...
DIMOND: Yes.
HARRIS: ... but you can understand that, you know, he`s out here, and he`s on vacation, and that`s really all I can say right now.
DIMOND: And you know, Art, you do have my home phone number, so you can call me if and when you feel like you can say anything.
Now, Jean Casarez, you sat in the courtroom with this man, Judge Larry Seidlin. And some people criticized him, they ridiculed him. They said he was an embarrassment.
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Yes, almost everybody criticized him. Jack Ford and I didn`t, though. You know, I sat in that courtroom, and I listened to him, and, of course, I`m looking and thinking about the legal issues, as a Court TV correspondent.
DIMOND: Right.
CASAREZ: But his is an equity court. It is a probate court. He normally didn`t have a courtroom. He normally was in a conference room. He normally would work with the parties. Yes, there were violations of evidence, but he wanted to bring forth the truth. That`s what he wanted. And they exited that courthouse holding hands. It didn`t last too long, but they held hands.
DIMOND: So you think he`s a good jurist? Bottom line, entertaining to watch.
CASAREZ: Yes.
DIMOND: Riveting perhaps.
CASAREZ: Yes.
DIMOND: But let`s bring in Lisa Pinto. She is an experienced prosecutor and always has a great opinion about something. Lisa, what do you think about a judge in a very high-profile case like this getting a TV show?
LISA PINTO, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, at least he`s not smoking pot under a tree like the other guy.
DIMOND: That`s right. That`s right.
PINTO: No, just I think it`s a shame when someone`s misery becomes a springboard for celebrity. I didn`t like hearing that report; I hope it`s not true. Let him stay. If he`s a good jurist, let him stay there. I don`t think that you should use the suffering and tragedy of one family to make it in television.
DIMOND: Well, you know, frankly, I don`t know if there`s room in television for another court reality show, but I guess we`ll see.
Let`s go out to a defense attorney, Steve Greenberg. Steve, I want to talk about something that we discussed a lot on the program last night, and that was the bill that Larry Birkhead got from his one-time attorney, Debra Opri. Did you see that, $620,000-plus?
STEVE GREENBERG, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`d like to get a bill paid by a client sometime like that. I`d like to see a client pay for $2,000 dinners and maybe pay for my wife`s laundry and pay for my trip to the Bahamas.
It`s just a total abuse, but it`s not surprising. If you look at her Web site, her whole thing is, "I am someone who`s a publicist-lawyer." Her whole focus wasn`t on what`s best for her client; it`s on what`s best for her.
DIMOND: Yes, one of the...
GREENBERG: And it didn`t go her way, and she got cut out. There comes the bill.
DIMOND: Yes, and one of the line items there was $1,500 a month for her own publicist. But what happens, Steve, in a case like this, when -- I mean, these are corporate charges. This isn`t something you charge an individual. He can`t possibly pay.
GREENBERG: Well, he can pay if he gets all the money that Dannielynn`s going to get, which may be what she`s thinking. But it`s just an absurd billing. Why do you have to take a limo to go to the courthouse? I drive myself. Most of my clients take public transportation. The charters are absurd whether you`re a corporation or individual. I think she breached her duty to her client. When he fired her, she got mad, and she sent the outrageous bill.
DIMOND: Now, Lisa Pinto, the dirty little secret that our viewers may not know is that there are some attorneys out there who show up at courthouses and glom onto people and say, "I`ll be your spokesperson, but you don`t even have to pay me because I`ll get the publicity," right?
PINTO: Right, you hear about the attorney with the earpiece hanging out as they walk out of the courtroom. That is not the proper practice of law, Diane.
What I find particularly offensive in this story about the $2,000 dinners and so on is that she seemed to promote herself throughout all of this. It`s one thing if it`s your client`s interests that you`re promoting, but Larry did that on his own by saying things like, you know, this is not a game show. This is my daughter.
He didn`t need all that glitz. He was bona fide on his own. And he did not want her at the funeral, yet she charges him for the two days around the funeral. That`s an abuse.
DIMOND: Yes, absolutely.
Lauren Howard, as a psychotherapist, is there a lesson here for people who might somehow get caught up in a high-profile case like this and be approached by an attorney that wants to make this dirty, little deal? Now, I`m not saying that this woman did that. I`m saying that happens, and we should all be on the lookout, I suppose.
LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: You know, who invented the 15 minutes of fame? I mean, people want -- you know, if there`s a chance to grab some self-aggrandizement, people will go for it. This is Hollywood. This is the press. Everyone is all over this. I mean, we`ve got a little baby being fought over, not for love, but for money.
DIMOND: Lauren, thank you for bringing it back to that. You`re absolutely right.
HOWARD: That`s what it`s about. That`s all it`s about.
DIMOND: Yes, it really is. And she`s 6 1/2, almost 7 months old now. And that`s where we should be focusing, I agree.
Let`s go out to the phones. Nikki in Indiana is calling. Hi, Nikki.
CALLER: Hi. I have a question. I was wondering, is there anyone who could substantiate the private investigator`s claim that he actually met with Daniel, besides him saying so?
DIMOND: Well, you know, Jean Casarez of Court TV says that she has a very good source that can.
CASAREZ: That`s what I was told, that he, in fact, knew Daniel, that they had met, and so I believe that source.
DIMOND: Yes. And, Nikki, I`ll tell you, I think that this private investigator out of L.A. could be very important, because, if this young man had that much worry about his mother being forced drugs and being kept in isolation, svengali-like I think that`s important to the inquest. So we`ll see if Tom O`Neil is right, that he has been put on standby as an inquest witness.
Valerie from Massachusetts is calling in. Hi, Valerie.
CALLER: Hi. I just wanted to know: Could Stern have forged a document giving him custody of Dannielynn and making him executor of the will because he kept Anna in such a drug-induced state?
DIMOND: Well, am I crazy here? I mean, were there such documents, Jean?
CASAREZ: Well, there was a will. And the will left everything to Daniel, who obviously is deceased. The will also said that I, Anna Nicole Smith, specifically exclude any future children I have in my life. And Judge Larry Seidlin said in his court that not a woman in America would do that.
So you better believe it, Valerie, there are going to be contests on that will, fraud, undue influence, anything you can imagine.
DIMOND: And, Mike Brooks, out to you in the Bahamas today. In the newspaper, there`s also something I found of interest, that I`m sure you`ve looked at, a couple of the housekeepers that will certainly be called as witnesses at the inquest. They can talk about what was going on in that house, like Valerie says, was she being force-fed these drugs?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: That`s a great question. In fact, in another article in the "Tribune" today, it also mentioned her attorney, Elizabeth Thompson (ph). I spoke to Ms. Thompson today, and she really didn`t want to discuss it.
But they feel they could be targets here in the Bahamas. If you look on the witness list, of the 40 witnesses, they are witness number 31 and 32. They`re the Alexa sisters (ph). Now, it says that Kwafe Alexis (ph) was employed at Horizons since September 2006, there when Anna came from the hospital. Anna asked her son, and she seemed not to understand that he was dead, says Anna accused Howard of killing her son after the funeral, also speaks of Stern bringing medication into the house.
That`s one of the things that we believe that she may testify to. Now, the other sister, Nadine Alexis (ph), these are both two Haitian sisters. She is her sister. She was employed at the Horizons in September of 2006. After the death of Daniel, says Anna always under the influence of medication, noticed a lot of medications in the house, including methadone and other drugs.
So they are going to be -- they`re going to be huge witnesses in this inquest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES NEAVITT, HOWARD K. STERN`S ATTORNEY: Howard`s concerned about his daughter. He`s taking care of her. He`s protecting her. And we have a lot of things that are coming out in the media that are speculative, and we have to wait for these things to play itself out. We waited for the report of Dr. Perper. There was no finding of any kind of wrongdoing. We`re going wait for the report of the inquest (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIMOND: Hi, everybody. I`m Diane Dimond in for Nancy Grace tonight.
Let`s talk about money, shall we? When you talk about Anna Nicole Smith, you are talking about perhaps pots of money here. First and foremost, we know that she left a will.
But Jean Casarez, Court TV, this will has not been probated, although we do know some things that are in it.
CASAREZ: Right. And we know that Daniel is dead, and so she didn`t provide for anyone. So it probably would follow intestate laws.
However, according to that will, she made Howard K. Stern the executor of the estate, the guardian of the minor child, and the trustee of the trust, three powerful, powerful positions that are worth money, right? And Howard K. Stern could say, "Let`s look to this will toward the intent of Anna Nicole Smith was to make me into those positions."
DIMOND: Right, and nothing about the surviving little child. Now, I`ve been looking into this company that they ran, Big Smoochy Lips (ph). You`ve got to love the name of that company. There were two people listed on the corporation papers. Anna Nicole Smith was the president, and Howard K. Smith is listed as the agent.
Now, I`m not really sure what powers that give him, but I do know, in the Big Smoochy Lips corporation, her house was put in there, at least one of the cars. And we`re efforting to figure out exactly how much stock, if you will, he gets out of that company.
And then, of course, Art Harris, investigative reporter extraordinaire, there`s all those millions from her late husband, right?
HARRIS: That`s right, if that comes true. And if it`s eventually awarded to Dannielynn, the trust fund baby extraordinaire, then whoever is in charge of that would have huge powers over where it`s placed, how it`s invested, and take fees from running that trust fund, Diane.
Now, you know, in Howard`s case, he was actually one of the attorneys who got that settlement or got the case kicked back to a court that allowed Anna Nicole to argue that this was her rightful share. So he will get a percentage as one of those attorneys.
DIMOND: About 6 percent, I think.
CASAREZ: He testified 6 percent.
DIMOND: Right.
CASAREZ: So $100 million, that`s $6 million.
DIMOND: Oh, not a bad day`s work.
John O`Quinn is Virgie Arthur`s attorney. Now, Mr. O`Quinn, does your client, as the mother of Anna Nicole Smith, deceased Anna Nicole Smith, does she plan on making a claim for any of this money? She gets her -- her estate gets a big chunk from the Marshall trust.
JOHN O`QUINN, ATTORNEY FOR VIRGIE ARTHUR: No, ma`am, the money belongs to the child. And so far, you know, they say Stern did this, Stern did that. He hasn`t recovered one penny out of these lawsuits. He was a lawyer in the lawsuit against the Marshalls, has not recovered one penny in about 10 years to help that child.
And where is he getting all this money he`s spending? He`s ordered by the court to pay a $10,000 penalty for having delayed this case. Where did he get that $10,000?
DIMOND: Well, Mr. O`Quinn, people could ask that of your client, too. Virgie Arthur was the only one in court today at the DNA hearing, the inconclusive DNA hearing, I might add. And she`s still down in the Bahamas, a retired sheriff`s department employee. Where`s she getting all the money to do this?
O`QUINN: She`s not getting it from the baby`s money. She doesn`t have any access to that money, and she wouldn`t take it if she did have access. I asked the question, where did Stern get the $10,000 that the court ordered him to pay? And where does he get all this other money that he`s surrounded by all these lawyers and going to talk to Lynn, and so and so, and get the publicists out there? He spent a lot of money.
DIMOND: Yes, well, a lot of people in this case have spent a lot of money. And that brings me to Lauren Howard, psychotherapist. Lauren, people get crazy when there`s a lot of money involved, don`t they?
HOWARD: They certainly do. And what`s that about?
DIMOND: I don`t know.
HOWARD: Filling some gaping hole, a little shopping cure? I mean, money is power? I don`t know. I like to think integrity is power and that money can`t buy love. You know, I wish it could, because then that little girl might find some somewhere.
DIMOND: Yes, I do worry about her. And I sometimes wonder if it wouldn`t be in her best interests to just simply be adopted out and...
HOWARD: Absolutely. Diane, I couldn`t agree with you more. I mean, honestly, the options here for parenthood, none of them are that compelling to me, as far as who has her best interests at heart. It really seems like everybody`s just grabbing at the pot of gold here. I`d love to see this little girl be adopted by a loving family that doesn`t have a hidden agenda.
DIMOND: And that doesn`t get a piece of any pie and just raises her and let everybody come and visit.
HOWARD: Absolutely right.
DIMOND: Let the grandma come visit. Let the men come and visit. Everybody visit. Boy, I`m with you, Lauren.
HOWARD: Absolutely right. That`s absolutely right.
DIMOND: Let`s go out to the phones. Betty in Georgia is calling in.
CALLER: Hello.
DIMOND: Hi, Betty. Have you got a question?
CALLER: Yes. How can Anna Nicole be considered a citizen of the Bahamas if she did not own the house that she was living in?
DIMOND: Well, that`s another one of those big twists and turns in this case -- Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: It sure is. All right, legal residency is the terminology. And she was determined to be a legal resident of the Bahamas. However, it died with her, all right? But if she never owned the home, then was it not correct for her to be a legal resident? And that goes into so many issues, probate of the will, the child staying in the Bahamas, et cetera and so forth.
DIMOND: Yes.
Steve Greenberg, let`s go out to you, as a defense attorney. When you see the amount of money involved here, do you see that this fight is ever going to be truncated? It`s got to be just drawn out, doesn`t it?
GREENBERG: Well, it`s going to be drawn out because you have so many different competing agendas. I don`t think any of these people are paying these lawyers. I think it`s sort of hypocritical for Virgie Arthur`s lawyer to criticize others. I`m sure he`s not getting paid. Birkhead we know wasn`t paying his lawyer. Who knows what Stern is doing?
It`s going to get dragged out, because everybody`s after the pot of gold. Once someone figures out whether or not there is a pot of gold and who`s going to get it, you`ll see everyone flee, gone.
DIMOND: Yes. Bye-bye.
Dr. Hunter, what do you think, bottom line, when you look at the way Daniel died, and then you look at the way his mother died, both from drug overdoses? What does your gut tell you? Are they somehow connected?
HUNTER: I don`t think so. You typically see drug overdoses with two types. You see individuals who tend to be, you know, chronic drug abusers, hard-core drug users, and they overdose on very high levels of drug.
I really have to wonder about Daniel and this methadone. You know, I really wonder if maybe he`s not a user of methadone, you know, he hasn`t seen a lot of this methadone. He takes a dose that maybe someone who is very familiar with the drug maybe provides -- I think that`s part of the discussion here -- and he happens to overdose and die because he hasn`t developed any tolerance to it. So I think they`re very different.
DIMOND: We`ve got 30 seconds here, Doctor. Are you convinced that the autopsies that have already been done, on both Anna and Daniel, two on Daniel, do you think they`re enough?
HUNTER: Oh, yes. I really do. The first autopsy is always going to be the one you look at, and the information you derive from that is going to be paramount. So I think the work`s been done here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DIMOND: I`m Diane Dimond, in tonight for Nancy Grace. I want to leave you looking at a picture, a brand-new picture of the little baby at the center of this controversy. It will be out in tomorrow`s edition of "InTouch Weekly." We thank Tom O`Neil for letting us have it. It`s a picture there in the oval pickup in that picture.
We have one more caller, Darlene from Ohio. Hi, Darlene. What`s your question?
CALLER: Hi. Well, I just wonder, with all this going on, how come there hasn`t been an attorney appointed to represent the baby?
DIMOND: That`s a great question, Darlene. I`ve covered a lot of cases, and there`s always a guardian ad litem.
CASAREZ: Department of social services in Nassau told me they had not appointed a guardian. They said the judge would do it. In fact, that child does have a guardian, Howard K. Stern.
DIMOND: Oh, Howard K. Stern.
Lauren Howard, what do you make of that? Is that fair to that little girl?
HOWARD: No, it`s not. And that`s exactly what this little girl needs, more than anyone in this case, that`s what she needs. She needs someone protecting her, looking out for her best interests who does not stand to gain financially.
DIMOND: Again, as I said last night, this little girl`s going to go to the Internet when she`s old enough and learn all about what the adults around her were doing.
That`s it for us tonight. But we want you to remember Army Specialist Sean McDonald , just 21 years old, from Rosemont, Minnesota, killed in Iraq. A dual citizen of the Netherlands and the United States, McDonald wanted to be an American soldier since he was a teenager. On his first tour of duty, McDonald phoned and e-mailed home often. He dreamed of laying down roots back home in Minnesota after the Army. He McDonald leaves behind a grieving mother and a sister, Jessica. Sean McDonald, an American hero.
I want to thank all of our guests tonight, and thank you at home for joining us here. I`m Diane Dimond in tonight for Nancy Grace. Nancy will be back tomorrow night, 8:00 Eastern time. Until then, have a great night, everyone. Stay safe.
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