Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Coach Accepts Apology from Imus; Iraqi Parliament Holds Session Following Bombing; Jury Hears Recorded Statement from Wife Accused of Murder; Food Stockpiled by FEMA Goes Bad; D.C. Madam Names Prominent Politico as Client; Terror Suspect Pleads Not Guilty

Aired April 13, 2007 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CO-HOST: Hello. I'm Don Lemon live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.
BETTY NGUYEN, CO-HOST: And I'm Betty Nguyen in for Kyra Phillips today, who is on assignment in Baghdad.

The women of Rutgers say apology accepted. Now, moving beyond the Imus controversy, we're going to bring you a news conference calling for this moment to be a catalyst for change.

LEMON: Plus, stock piles spoiled. How could a government agency let emergency food supplies go to waste?

NGUYEN: And naming at least one name. Yes, new details in the so-called D.C. madam case.

You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

LEMON: Don Imus is out of a job, but his apology is accepted. The head coach of the Rutgers University women's basketball team said today her players are trying to forgive Don Imus.

Just hours after he was fired by CBS, Imus met with the team at the New Jersey governor's mansion. He offered his apologies. The coach says they accepted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

C. VIVIAN STRINGER, RUTGERS HEAD COACH: He was remorseful. He expressed his apology. We've accepted his apology. This team and I would like to heal. We are in the process of forgiving. We have accepted his apology. We really are. I think that's what everybody needs to do. These young ladies don't need to receive anything more. They're innocent.

You know, let's give credit to everyone, including MSNBC, CBS, everybody. Give credit to all these people. For once, people are standing up. And for once, I want to say to all of you guys, like I said, those of you who are handling the camera and those of you who are doing anything else, those of you who have children, you are for once taking another level of moral standard.

So just be -- do the right thing. Don't try to sell a 35-cent newspaper. Don't try to make big headlines at the expense and off the backs of these young women or at the expense or off the backs of Mr. Imus -- Mr. Imus. Let this man have some level of integrity. Let him grow. Let us all learn from this.

We don't -- we seem to like that spectator sport putting people down, stomping on their throat and making sure they're dead. And if they're not, we're going to follow it up with how well were they dressed in the coffin. So we have got to stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Don Imus is already off the air. This morning, his wife, Deirdre, talked about the meeting with the Rutgers players.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEIRDRE IMUS, WIFE OF DON IMUS: They gave us the opportunity to listen to what they had to say and what -- why they're hurting and how -- how awful this is.

And I have to say that these women are unbelievably courageous and beautiful women. And one thing I want to say is that the hate mail that's being sent to them must stop. It's -- this is -- this is -- if you want to send hate mail, send it to my husband.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, CBS fired Don Imus yesterday afternoon, one day after MSNBC canceled its cable simulcast of the Imus radio show.

So does the punishment fit Don Imus' verbal crime? Coming up in about 30 minutes, fellow broadcasters weigh in on that touchy topic.

NGUYEN: But right now, take a look at this, New Jersey Governor Jon Corzine was supposed to attend last night's meeting between Don Imus and the Rutgers players, but Corzine was seriously injured in an auto accident on his way to the governor's mansion.

Corzine's SUV, driven by a state trooper, was struck by a vehicle that swerved to avoid a truck. The governor suffered multiple fractures, including his leg, ribs, sternum, and lower vertebrae. A doctor says Corzine, who is 60 years old, remains in critical condition.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. STEVEN ROSS, COOPER UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL: Governor Corzine remains in critical but stable condition in the trauma intensive care unit. He remains on the ventilator, on the breathing machine, heavily sedated in order to treat the pain from his chest fractures.

He's recovering well from the surgery that Dr. Ostrum did on his broken leg. He has significantly improved over the course of the night.

(END VIDEO CLIP) NGUYEN: A spokesman for the governor says it appears Corzine was not wearing a seat belt at the time of that crash. New Jersey law does require all front seat passengers to wear seat belts.

LEMON: Well, they're trying to keep it business as usual in Baghdad today. But that is very difficult, especially in the Iraqi parliament one day after a shocking and brazen breach of security. One person dead, nearly two dozen hurt when a suicide bomber managed to get deep inside the parliament building.

Investigators are working on the most plausible scenario, an inside job.

CNN's Arwa Damon is in Baghdad.

Arwa, what do we know about these arrests, and are there any leads on this?

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, we spoke earlier with national security advisor Mowaffak al-Rubaie, and he said simply that this had to have been an inside job. He is utterly convinced that it was people who knew the layout of the land there, that allowed this attack to take place and were a part of it.

The Iraqi government currently has three suspects in custody, a Shia member of parliament telling us that those were, in fact, employees of the cafeteria where the explosion took place.

Now, publicly, the Islamic State of Iraq, an umbrella group led by al Qaeda in Iraq, has claimed responsibility for this attack. And most certainly, the level of sophistication, the planning, the surveillance that had to have taken place for such a thing to be carried out, for all these levels of security to be breached, do carry all the hallmarks of al Qaeda, Don.

LEMON: And Arwa, you were in the convention center this morning. Were you allowed to see how the security has been stepped up there?

DAMON: Well, Don, we actually sensed how the security was stepped up as we were going through the security restrictions that are currently in place.

And just to give you an example, the convention center has its own X-ray machine leading into it, and that is where parliament sessions take place. We had to exit at one point to drop something off outside. And we didn't move more than a few feet, a few hundred feet away from the actual building. We didn't exit the perimeter. But coming back in, our bags were searched by bomb-sniffing dogs once again.

People there are very jumpy. They were very worried today that an attack like the one we saw yesterday would happen again. It would have been the perfect opportunity for the insurgency here to strike once again.

But by all means, both the Iraqis and the Americans right now are taking this unbelievably seriously. This was such a massive breach of security.

LEMON: Absolutely. And you mentioned the parliament sessions take place there, Arwa. What about the sessions? There was one today in defiance of yesterday's attack? What's the significance of today's meeting?

DAMON: Well, for the Iraqis, the Iraqi members of parliament, the members of the Iraqi government who were there, the significance really was twofold. As you mentioned, it was their stance in defiance against the acts of terror.

But it was also to commemorate the parliament member that was killed in that attack, Mohammed al-Wad. And they put a bouquet of flowers on his chair, saying that in their eyes, he was now a martyr and that this act, his death, this breach of security by the terrorists, would only serve to harden their resolve.

And we heard multiple statements of national unity, national reconciliation. Really, the Iraqi members of parliament that spoke out today, putting emphasis on the fact that it was time to end all the rhetoric about national unity and actually prove that this was a unified government, Don.

LEMON: Arwa Damon in Baghdad. Thank you so much, Arwa.

NGUYEN: Well, they screwed up, and they are trying to fix it. Those words from a White House spokeswoman over deleted e-mails concerning eight fired U.S. attorneys. Apparently, the documents were sent to GOP accounts set up for party and campaign purposes, not official White House business.

Dana Perino says 22 White House aides used the GOP accounts, including Karl Rove, the president's top political advisor. However, Perino admits the e-mails should have been saved.

Democratic Senator Patrick Leahy was so mad when he heard these comments that he was yelling on the Senate floor. He equated the statement to something like "my dog ate my homework."

The story could, in fact, be changing as we speak because the White House press conference is about to get under way today. We're going to have a live report within the hour.

LEMON: A Tennessee jury heard a tearful statement today from a minister's wife accused of murdering her husband. It was not direct testimony. Prosecutors played a tape of a statement Mary Winkler made to police one day after her husband's death. Her words at one point, quote, "My ugly came out."

CNN's Thomas Roberts has a report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's day two of Mary Winkler's first degree murder trial here in Selmer, Tennessee. And so far, most of the testimony today has focused on the statement or the confession that she gave after being picked up in Orange Beach, Alabama.

And in the statement itself, she talks about her marriage, and she also talks about what it was like to hear the sound of the shotgun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any major (UNINTELLIGIBLE) going on?

MARY WINKLER, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does he ever hurt you?

WINKLER: Not physically -- with all due respect -- newspapers and, you know, whatever this comes to pass. No matter what, in the end, I don't want to -- I don't want him smeared.

ROBERTS: The jury is actually getting to hear the words of Mary Winkler, but this is a recorded statement from over a year ago. So it remains to be seen if Mary Winkler is going to take the stand. But we should know in a couple of days. Word is if that she would be taking the stand, it would be early next week.

Thomas Roberts, CNN, Selmer, Tennessee.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: There is new criticism today for FEMA over those meals ready to eat that actually weren't fit to eat. A huge amount of food stockpiled for possible emergency use went bad because it sat in trucks too long.

CNN's Jeanne Meserve is standing by with this story. A lot of people might be outraged just to see the waste.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you're right. Poor FEMA. Too little first, then too much. They can't seem to get it exactly right.

FEMA officials do confirm the story first reported by "The Washington Post" that about $40 million worth of food stockpiled for last year's hurricane season has gone bad because it wasn't stored properly. FEMA simply didn't have enough space to keep all the food in its warehouses, so it was kept in hundreds of trucks.

You'll remember the agency was vilified for not be able to get food and water quickly to victims of hurricanes Katrina and Rita two years ago. So last year it stockpiled enough food to feed a million people for a week. At the time, FEMA director David Paulison bragged about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID PAULISON, FEMA DIRECTOR: We are light years ahead of where we were last year. We're light years ahead as far as the type of commodities we've stockpiled. And we do have some of those numbers that we tripled and quadrupled the supplies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MESERVE: But of course, no major hurricanes materialized last year, so the meals ready to eat, or MREs, sat in trucks in the sun and went bad. A FEMA official says the agency was facing incredible pressure last year to preposition supplies. Now it will likely be criticized for wasting taxpayer dollars.

NGUYEN: Yes, $40 million to be exact. Jeanne Meserve, thank you for that report. We appreciate it.

MESERVE: OK.

LEMON: Well, a shock jock silenced, at least for now. But does the punishment fit Don Imus' verbal crime? Ahead in the NEWSROOM, fellow broadcasters weigh in on that touchy topic.

The D.C. madam names a name, but the alleged client scoffs at the notion of involvement. We've got the latest on the case, just ahead on the CNN NEWSROOM.

NGUYEN: And extreme spring weather, from blizzards to possible tornadoes, even hail. We'll have the latest from our weather center. That is ahead right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right, it's 15 past the hour. And here are three of the stories we're working on for you right here in the CNN NEWSROOM this hour.

The Rutgers women's basketball team accepts his apology, but Don Imus is still out of a job. Is that fair? We'll talk that over later in this hour. And we're expecting a news conference from the Reverend in New Jersey who mediated that meeting. He's calling for this to be a catalyst for change.

Despite yesterday's bombing in Iraq's Green Zone, the Pentagon says the Baghdad troop buildup is showing some early progress.

And where is spring? Where is spring? The Midwest digs out from a midweek of snowstorms and all kinds of trouble, as New England braces for possible heavy snow this weekend.

NGUYEN: The so-called D.C. Madam makes good on a threat. Deborah Palfrey said that she was going to name names, and she used court records this week to claim a highly respected military strategist was one of her regulars. The accusation has a lot of people talking about shock and awe.

Let's get you straight to CNN's Brianna Keilar, standing by in Washington.

OK, so we want to know, who's this person?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Betty, you may not recognize his name, but many a Washington insider will. It's Harlan Ullman. He is one of the leading theorists behind the shock and awe strategy of military dominance that I'm sure you're familiar with. It was associated with the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

He has appeared on a number of news shows, CNN included, as a defense expert. And according to Mr. Ullman's web site, he's a former Navy commander. Also, according to the web site, a highly respected and widely recognized expert in national security whose advice is sought by governments and businesses.

Well, court documents show alleged madam Debra Jeane Palfrey named Ullman as a regular customer of her upscale escort service. Of course, that's an escort service that the government says was actually a prostitution ring that Palfrey ran here in the D.C. area for about 13 years.

Palfrey's civil defense lawyer says Ullman was a client but that he did not engage in sexual contact with escorts.

Well, I talked to Mr. Ullman. He gave me a brief statement, saying, "The allegations do not dignify a response. I'm a private, not a public citizen, and any further questions are referred to my attorneys."

Ullman also told me that he's considering some sort of legal action himself. So I did talk with his attorney. I asked him if his client was a customer of Pamela Martin and Associates. That was the name of Palfrey's company. And he said no comment -- Betty.

NGUYEN: That's very interesting. Let me ask you this, though. Are we expecting more names to be named?

KEILAR: Well, I wouldn't rule it out. And I say that because I did speak with Deborah Jeane Palfrey's civil defense attorney. And he said in the short term, he's not expecting his client to go that direction, but, he said, it's possible.

NGUYEN: All right. We'll be watching. Brianna Keilar in Washington for us. Thank you, Brianna.

KEILAR: You're welcome.

LEMON: A U.S. citizen accused of working for al Qaeda entered a not guilty plea this morning.

Forty-three-year-old Christopher Paul appeared before a federal judge in Columbus, Ohio. Prosecutors say he joined al Qaeda in Pakistan and conspired to bomb European tourist resorts and U.S. military bases.

Penny Moore of CNN affiliate WBNS reports that Paul was arrested after a long investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PENNY MOORE, WBNS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The feds picked Christopher Paul up outside of his Northwest Columbus apartment yesterday. Then they searched the place. Paul had been under investigation for four years.

TIM MURPHY, FBI: The investigation spanned three continent, required coordination with law enforcement and intelligence agencies from around the world from at least eight different countries.

MOORE: And here's what they found, that all the way back in 1991, Christopher Paul joined al Qaeda. The indictment says he stayed at a guest house in Pakistan that was exclusively for al Qaeda members, and he was selected for advanced training in, among other things, explosive devices.

But the indictment says Christopher Paul trained others, as well, inside the United States, in order that these others might be ready to fight violent jihad outside of the United States. And the indictment says some of that training was here at Burr Oak State Park in Morgan County.

The feds say they know at least some of his trainees, but would ordinary park visitors have known what was going on? Tim Murphy of the FBI.

MURPHY: I'm not sure they would have. And again, I don't want to speculate on anything that's not in the indictment, whether there were witnesses to the activity.

MOORE: For four years, members of this joint terrorism task force traveled the globe to gather the evidence against Christopher Paul, evidence that he was carrying out a conspiracy to maim and murder Americans on vacation in Europe. And where was Christopher Paul in those four years?

Well, the indictment says just last year, he was conducting research on radio-controlled boats and flight-simulator computer programs, including how to fly large commercial passenger aircraft. A free man attending this mosque and walking the streets of this city.

MURPHY: If we thought at any time during the course of the investigation that the public was immediate, imminent danger, action would have been taken.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand by.

LEMON: And that was Penny Moore from a CNN affiliate. Christopher Paul remains in custody following today's hearing. He did not ask to be released on bond.

NGUYEN: A shock jock silenced, at least for now. But does the punishment that Don Imus is getting, does that fit his verbal crime? Ahead in the NEWSROOM, fellow broadcasters weigh in on that touchy topic.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Look at that big board; means it's time for business. So you think this is a year to show the family where the gladiators really fought? Well, that trip to the Roman Coliseum and, for that matter, just about anywhere in Europe is going to slash your spending power.

Susan Lisovicz standing by at the New York Stock Exchange to tell us why, probably, don't go to Europe this summer unless you've got lots of cash to spend?

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm thinking that a road trip to the Jersey shore.

LEMON: To the shore. Down the shore.

LISOVICZ: Down the shore -- you got it! How do you know that?

LEMON: I lived in Philly. We went down the shore all the time.

LISOVICZ: That's right. Only -- only Jersey folks generally know that expression. You get a lot of cred in the Garden State, Don.

Well, it's all about the value of the dollar. It's been slipping for some time now. And today the euro was near a two-year high against the greenback. Right now, it will cost you $1.35 to get just one euro. And depending on where you exchange your money, of course, you could end up paying a lot more than that.

You'll have to cough up $1.98, meanwhile, to get a single British pound. Even though you may catch a break by going down under to Australia, exchange rates there are high there, too. One Australian dollar costs 83 cents. But that's a 17-year high.

So that trip to Paris, London, Sydney or Florence could cost more than you've budgeted unless you're going back to the youth hostels, Don.

LEMON: Yes. Remember those, Susan? So what do you like? What's your favorite? Cape...

LISOVICZ: I try to forget about them, frankly.

LEMON: What's your favorite? Cape May, Avalon, Wildwood? Which one do you like?

LISOVICZ: Well, my family has, you know -- we have our own place. And we have had it for a long time. I was going to rename it the Briny Breezes.

LEMON: Yes, you should be so lucky. I'm going to have to come hang out with you at your place down the shore.

LISOVICZ: You're welcome. You and Betty are welcome. And for that matter, all of the good folks in the NEWSROOM, welcome anytime.

NGUYEN: That big, huh?

LEMON: Absolutely.

NGUYEN: OK.

LEMON: So tell us about this dollar. Why is it so weak?

LISOVICZ: Well, the value of the dollar and other currencies depend largely on the economy, of course. Here in the U.S., we talk about it all the time. Economic growth is moderating while other countries like China are attracting investors because of growth prospects there. That boosts their currencies.

In fact, the International Monetary Fund says the U.S. economy is expected to grow at a rate of just 2.2 percent, while the global economy is expected to grow at a rate of nearly 5 percent this year.

(STOCK REPORT)

LISOVICZ: Betty, Don, whether it's the Briny Breezes or youth hostels, could be a great summer.

Back to you.

LEMON: All right.

NGUYEN: First week in June we're there, OK? Mark the calendar.

LISOVICZ: All right. Putting you down.

LEMON: All right, Susan. We'll check back with you in just a little bit.

A brutal message shows up online. Eerie echoes of Iraq. But this is a lot closer to home: south of the border. It's a shocker, straight ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.

NGUYEN: Also this, check it out: showing compassion while sticking up a store? Really? The tale of the remorseful robbery suspect. That is in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Hello everyone I'm Don Lemon live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.

NGUYEN: And I'm Betty Nguyen. Well he lost both of his broadcasting gigs, appropriate punishment for his cutting remarks or did his media bosses just go too far. We're going to debate the issues raised by the Don Imus story. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

First up, Scarface on a computer screen -- horrifying hostage videos on the internet. We do want to warn you that this report contains graphic pictures that may be disturbing to some, in fact many. CNN's Harris Whitbeck reports on a drug war that is being fought much closer than you might think.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It looks like a video from Iraq. A hostage bound, interrogated, tortured by his captors who remain off camera. But the language is not Arabic. It is Spanish. The country is not Iraq, it is Mexico. And along with the threats scribbled on this hostage's body is a big Z, which stands for Zintas, the name of one of Mexico's many drug cartels hit squads. The victim, allegedly a member of the Zintas. His captors apparently from a rival gang, seven of whose members were recently killed. Are you responsible for killing our people, the interrogator asks him? Yes, he answers. Soon after, the beheading takes place. As shocking as its content, is the way the video was made public. It was put on YouTube, the U.S. based Web site that allows anonymous users to post home videos. And while YouTube removed the posting after a few hours when it became aware of it, it is only the most recent posting on a variety of sites in what internet security experts in Mexico say is a trend among the Mexican drug cartels.

GABRIEL CAMPOLI, INTERNET CRIME EXPERT: It is a message to society, a way of saying that the government's efforts to combat drug trafficking have failed and that the cartels are alive and well.

WHITBECK: Here's another Mexican video that made the rounds on the internet. The singer is Valentin Alisadi who is said to have quite a following among drug traffickers. Over images of victims of the drug cartel battles, he sings what's known in Mexico as a narco- ballad. I'm singing this song to my enemies is the lyric. Several months later, Alisaidi himself wound up dead, shot 20 times. Pictures of his autopsy appeared on another web posting. Federal prosecutors in Mexico have seen many of these videos and the chat room messages that they trigger. They say they are investigating them for clues that might lead to their authors. But experts say Mexican law enforcement is ill-equipped to track criminals in cyberspace.

CAMPOLI: The problem is one of legislation. Mexican law does not allow the police to dig very deeply into the identities of people in the internet. What we really need is a special prosecutor for internet crime.

WHITBECK (on camera): The web may be a powerful medium for transmitting drug traffickers' messages, but if properly investigated, it could also be a treasure trove of clues about their whereabouts and identities. In fact, at the end of that beheading video, a message scrolls on the screen that serves as both a clue for police and a warning to a rival drug lord. Citing the drug lord by name, the message says, you're next. Harris Whitbeck, CNN, Mexico City.

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Now back to the story we've been following for about a week now, the Don Imus firing and his meeting with the Rutgers players. Well it ends in at least one chapter in the uproar over his remarks. Now as we've reported, Imus met last night with the Rutgers women's basketball team and their coach says they've accepted his apology. That meeting came just hours after he was fired by CBS, ending at least for now his long career in radio. But, there's still a lot to talk about here and Roland Martin is a CNN contributor, he joins us from Chicago. Coz Carson is in Miami, he is a former talk radio host and he is now a consultant. Thank you to both of you for joining us today. I know it's going to be lively with the two of you. How did this -- what I want to know from you Roland and we talked a little bit about this on your radio show this morning. How did this become about hip-hop instead of about personal responsibility for someone who is on the public air waves.

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well I think several different things. First and foremost, he used language that is common in some hip-hop music. Let me say that again, some rap music. At the same time, Imus, when he was on the "Today Show", he tried the link to say, hey, I didn't -- this phrase originated in the black community, not with me, and so people naturally begin to say, well, wait a minute, if you guys are going to protest Imus' language, what about hip-hop?

LEMON: But is that fair, Roland, to equate the two?

COZ CARSON, URBAN TALK RADIO CONSULTANT: It is absolutely fair.

MARTIN: It is fair in some ways in that in terms of the language. Now, the issue with Imus was he has a different platform than a particular rapper. That's the difference. And so we have to be careful here. The issue again Don on this whole point is that it was a matter of sexism and racism. I think we've spent far too much emphasis on racism and deemphasize the sexism in Don Imus' comments.

LEMON: All right Coz go ahead, because I know you're itching --

CARSON: Let's just keep it real. First of all, if Don Imus were a black man, we wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation. What he said was racist on its face, it should not have been said, but I don't believe Don Imus is the devil. Howard stern is the devil, no I'm just kidding. Actually Don Imus, according to the first amendment, he has the right to say anything and we have he right to punch a button that tunes him out or tunes him in. Surely he should have been punished, I think this is overkill. I think it was an easy target and we continue to ignore the elephant in the room which is that rap music has injected, mainlined these types of phrases into the lexicon of America and we need to change that by having some dialogue with them. And I would suggest some of these leaders could have looked to the bigger picture rather than focusing in on Don Imus.

MARTIN: Don, I have to correct a couple of things because you know I always get offended when people come on television and don't have the right facts to back them up. First and foremost he said that if Don Imus was a black man, this would be no comment. You don't have any black folks sitting here hosting their own shows on the morning show. Soledad O'Brien was a co-anchor, so let's just be honest, you don't have that. The second issue is, which is vitally important here, you cannot dismiss the platform that he had. You have African- Americans who have been speaking out against rap for so long. The issue also is sexism. Don't deny that. But men conveniently ignore that. I talk about it in my column on cnn.com.

LEMON: Let me jump in here, because I want to ask this question. I'll let you talk in a bit. This has gotten all the way to the White House and all the way to Congress. As a matter of fact, Tom DeLay is talking about it -- where do you draw the line. He not only talks about Imus but he brings in other people as well. Let's listen to what he had to say, then I want you guys to talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM DELAY, FORMER HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: I'm calling for conservatives to take on Rosie O'Donnell, as she called Christians -- compared them to Islamic fascists. She criticized and ridiculed Chinese Americans. She accused the president of being responsible for 9/11. Let's now start calling for her resignation.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK, so Roland you said there are no black hosts doing this. Coz is saying oh if a black person had said this, we wouldn't be where it is. The question is though, where do you draw the line. Rosie is a woman, but she's not black, but she does say some controversial things. Where do you draw the line?

MARTIN: Don, we've always had controversial things being said. The reality is some of these things are in many ways subjective. Don Imus is not the first radio guy to be fired for comments. At Hot 97 in New York, you had some DJs who made some sexist and racist comments about the tsunami, they were fired. So this is not anything new in terms of somebody crossing the line. The line is based upon a standard. A standard is based upon different things, it could be a national standard, a local standard.

CARSON: If I might get a word in edgewise.

LEMON: OK, yeah go ahead, Coz.

CARSON: I would first say Roland with all due respect, I think that I'm as informed as you are. I believe that there are black people doing talk shows nationally, even on Syndication One where you now work and where I used to work. So to say that there are no black folks --

MARTIN: Actually I don't work at Syndication One, I don't work there.

CARSON: I'd appreciate it if you'd let me finish my statement.

MARTIN: OK.

CARSON: I'd appreciate if you let me make my statement as I let you make yours as a courtesy. I think that if we look around the country, we have many powerful black people in broadcasting, some of them hold a prayer in the morning and do their inspirational vitamins and play "drop it like it's hot" right behind their prayer. This is hypocrisy and we must address it on our own front, because this is an inside job. Don Imus is an isolated incident and a very easy target for people to go after. What he did was wrong, it was racist and sexist as you said, I agree wholeheartedly. But I reject out of hand the notion that he should be fired and we're not looking in our own house and dealing with the fact that program directors, general managers allow this garbage on the radio (INAUDIBLE) and it should be dealt with.

MARTIN: I agree.

LEMON: I'm going to have to stop it there. But Roland, and we talked about something very interesting -- you bring up a very interesting point. Break some news here for us. We talked about the money. It' really -- you have to follow the money trail if you're going to make any difference.

MARTIN: Don, everybody keeps talking about the rappers, what they are saying. But understand this here -- these rappers work for record companies. These record companies are owned by conglomerates. Now, there are teachers out there right now in Chicago, I had a caller who called on my show, WBON today, he said that the Chicago Teacher's Union their pension, $94 million they have invested in General Electric stock. Who owns Universal, NBC, who owns NBC, General Electric? You have companies that own it. And so, when people say I'm tired of the music, they might want to find out how much of their retirement money is invested in these companies so they are in a round-about way, benefiting financially from rap music.

LEMON: That is going to have to be the last word. Roland Martin, Coz Carson, thank you so much for very joining us. Always lively to have both of you on. But again, thank you very much. Both of you have a great weekend.

And we know this issue has you talking just like it has us talking about taste and freedom of speech and what is art? So we want to hear from you about the bigger picture that's coming into focus because of the Don Imus controversy. Where should the line be drawn in music or movies or any part of pop culture? We want you to e-mail us at cnnnewsroom@cnn.com. Again, cnnnewsroom@cnn.com, we'll read some of your responses as a matter of fact in our next hour.

(WEATHER REPORT)

LEMON: And another developing story we've been talking about, the controversy caused by those missing e-mails and the fired attorneys, well right now Dana Perino is holding a press conference or press briefing today responding to that.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: -- not the RNC. And this equated -- it was estimated that roughly over five million e- mail messages were missing.

DANA PERINO, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESWOMAN: Yeah I don't know if that group has -- I don't know how they do an analysis on an internal White House system. But I did check it out and we are in communication with the Office of Administration to see if there are days or partial days when there were e-mails that would have gone missing. And in terms of missing is a word that may be misplaced or not necessarily lost forever. I think there are backup tapes, there are different ways in order to go back and find e-mails. In talking with them and with the counsel's office, there is no indication that anyone who is working on a server or in terms of a technical -- a technical capability that would be able to look at a server, clean up a server, or in terms of when we converted from Lotus Notes to Microsoft Outlook if there would have been any potential loss there, that there was any intentional loss of any document. I think that those folks take their jobs very seriously and endeavor to make sure that all of the records are preserved for the presidential records act as well as the federal records act.

MALVEAUX: So just to be clear -- are you taking issue with your conclusions or are you just saying we're --

PERINO: I'm not taking issue with their conclusions at this point. We're checking into them. And again, you know there are 1700 people in the executive office of the president. I don't know how -- we'll try to find out how many e-mails a day are sent with that many people. I can assure you it's a high number. But I also will tell you that -- the technical folks that we've spoken to in the preliminary discussions was that if there had been an inadvertent human error or a technical problem where there were days where e-mails might have been misplaced that either one -- well, one, it would not have been intentional and two, there are ways that we can try to gather those if need be. Think about it, I mean there are sometimes -- and I don't have a list of the days with me. But if it was a Saturday or a Sunday, oftentimes because we have such a large organization that works 24/7, but mostly Monday through Friday. If they do any maintenance on our servers just like in your organizations, they often do it on times when it's slow periods. If there are looking at those days -- we just need to do a little bit more work before I can answer definitively.

MALVEAUX: So to your knowledge, there's no problem within the White House e-mail system in terms of messages or e-mails that have been deleted or at this point, you just don't know.

PERINO: No, what I'm saying is that all -- the way that the system is set up, and the way to comply with the presidential records act is that any e-mail that comes to or from a White House account, an EOP account that you all e-mail us on, those are automatically preserved. Their question was specific not to GWB e-mails but to White House account e-mails, and their question is -- there are allegations that there could be days -- whole days missing. And what I'm saying is we're looking into that. But I would caution people from making any broad conclusions about that for the reasons I've stated, which is there is no indication that that would have been intentional and there are ways that you can find missing e-mails and that's one of the ways that they do that. I'm not a technical expert, but they have the expertise on that.

MALVEAUX: Just a quick follow here, they allege that White House Counsel Harriet Miers was informed of this problem at the time of these missing e-mails and that she didn't do anything about it or the White House didn't do anything about it. Are you aware of that?

PERINO: I haven't spoken to Harriet, obviously she's no longer working here. But we are -- (INAUDIBLE) and I are working to find as much information as possible and we're talking to the office of administration. You remember sometime -- we don't have the same personnel necessarily that we had three or four years ago, so we're working to get the answers for you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just for one moment, you've had the change of policy here, why?

PERINO: Well as I said, this is now stepping back away from that particular problem on EOP e-mails and talking about specifically about GWB-RNC hosted accounts. Out of an abundance of caution at the beginning of the administration, there were two basic notices in terms of policy on this issue. One was official White House business should be done on official White House accounts. The second one was -- and it was much more extensive, how an individual who has responsibilities in both the political and the official world would avoid violating the hatch act. And that was very explicit and the hatch act says you cannot use a government-issued computer or any sort of government- issued equipment, which is paid for by taxpayer dollars to do any sort of political business. And so out of abundance of caution and because people were concerned about violating the hatch act and because of convenience in terms of managing multiple devices, as the blackberries became more ubiquitous, the policy wasn't always followed correctly. And so we -- we decided that the best thing to do was to let you know that and to secondly to have a new policy, one that makes it much more clear and gives the employee much more clear guidance. There was failing both on not having a clear guidance, not having good management or overseeing of the issue and the individuals not following through on the guidance. Again, I don't think I was intentional and there is no indication that there was anything improper -- improper use of these RNC e-mails. But it is better now to have a clearer policy in which people know exactly where the lines are. If they have questions about where they fall in a gray area and where the line is, the counsel's office has let them know that their door is open and that they're happy to help them make those judgments. Let me go over here to Cheryl.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- what that policy is and when it went into effect?

PERINO: It was recently, only in the last couple of weeks or so, I think.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what is that policy?

PERINO: I think that's what I've just described to you, which is that you still need -- White House business still needs to be done on White House official accounts. Political -- I see your point. Political affairs business needs to be done on your RNC account. We want to make sure that people aren't using government-sponsored -- government-paid-for equipment to do political business, but that out of an abundance of wanting to make sure we're complying with the presidential records act that you should figure out a way to preserve those documents so either by printing them out or saving them in some way on your computer or cc'ing yourself so that if in the future at any time the counsel's office needs to review those documents, they are available. NGUYEN: We've been listening to the White House spokeswoman Dana Perino talking about those deleted e-mails concerning those eight fired U.S. attorneys. Of course we're going to hear much more on this topic throughout the coming days. In the meantime, we do want to tell you about this news -- it is a gene that could keep you from fitting in your jeans? Yes, scientists find a possible obesity link. We have those details in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Want to give you a live look now at Summerset, New Jersey where they are setting up because the Reverend Forest Soreys(ph) Jr. will be holding a news conference very shortly at the top of the hour. He mediated, if you recall, that meeting between Imus and the Rutgers women's basketball team last night. And today he is having a summit with black ministers to launch a nationwide effort to address sexist and racist hate language that demeans women, in particular, black women. So we are hoping to hear from him very soon, like I said at the top of the hour. And when it occurs, we'll bring it straight to you.

LEMON: Well how about this one, a genetic link to fat? British scientists say they have identified a gene that may be an obesity marker. A new study finds people who carry two variations of a particular gene carry on average seven pounds more than those who don't have the gene. Scientists still don't know if the gene is related to appetite or calorie burning. About a third of American adults are obese. CNN NEWSROOM continues in just a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Showing compassion while sticking up a store? It is a tale of a remorseful robbery suspect and we have it here in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com