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Lou Dobbs This Week
CBS Fires Don Imus; Prosecutors Drop Duke Lacrosse Players' Case
Aired April 15, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, ANCHOR, LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK: Tonight, CBS cancels Don Imus' radio show. How much hypocrisy is there on the Imus outrage and controversy?
And prosecutors drop sexual assault charges against three former Duke lacrosse players. Is it time to reform our criminal justice system?
We'll examine those issues and much more, straight ahead tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK - news, debate and opinion - for Saturday, April 14th. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening, everybody.
We begin tonight with the news that the Army is extending the combat tours of soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. The tours of duty will be increased from 12 months to 15 months.
The Pentagon announcement is raising new concerns our military is stretched too thin and may be at the breaking point.
Jamie McIntyre reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEO)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT, THE PENTAGON (voice-over): The enduring wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are now requiring even more sacrifice by active duty American soldiers. The Pentagon has approved a plan to increase the standard tour of duty for the active Army in both combat zones from 12 months to 15.
Without that plan, Defense Secretary Robert Gates would be forced to deploy five brigades to Iraq early, and extend other brigades on short notice in the coming months.
ROBERT GATES, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I strongly believe that we owe our troops as much advance notice as possible and clarity on what they and their families can expect; in other words, predictability.
MCINTYRE: The three-month extension applies to all active duty Army soldiers deployed in the U.S. Central Command area. That includes over 100,000 Army soldiers of the 145,000 U.S. troops currently in Iraq, and about 20,000 soldiers of the 47,000 NATO and U.S. forces in Afghanistan. While the active duty troops will deploy for 15 months, they would get 12 months at home. Guard and Reserve troops would still serve a year on and get five years at home, as Secretary Robert Gates promised back in January.
And most Marines, whose deployments are tied to Navy ship movements, will still serve seven-month tours with a six-month break.
The Army says the extensions were the best way to provide the 20 combat brigades U.S. commanders say are needed to maintain the Baghdad security plan, known as the surge, for at least a year.
GEN. PETER PACE, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: This decision today does not predict when this surge will end. What it does is, it allows us to provide to the nation, if needed, the amount of force that's currently deployed for a sustained period of time.
MCINTYRE (on camera): The move drew a predictably partisan response from Democrats on Capitol Hill. House Armed Services Committee chairman, Ike Skelton, called it an additional burden for an already over-stretched Army, while his counterpart in the Senate, Carl Levin, termed it a foreseeable consequence of a failed strategy.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEO)
PILGRIM: Insurgents in Iraq are using bold new tactics against our troops and Iraqis. A suicide bomber penetrated the tight security around the Green Zone in Baghdad.
The bomb killed a lawmaker inside the Iraqi parliament building.
Arwa Damon reports from Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEO)
ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT, BAGHDAD: The panic and chaos painfully evident in these images as the cameraman tries to make his way through the thick smoke and debris.
A suicide bomb attack as a formidable in its audacity as it was in effectiveness, striking at the very pillar of Iraq's fledgling democracy - its parliament.
Penetrating the often-dubbed "Fortress Baghdad," the heavily fortified Green Zone. The bomber would have had to sneak past U.S. checkpoints, Iraqi security forces and private Western security companies - and avoid detection by bomb-sniffing dogs and X-ray machines.
The attack took place at the cafeteria right after the day's session came to an end where members were convening for lunch.
The U.S. military points the finger at al Qaeda, known for its sophistication and ability to constantly defy heavy security. VOICE OF GEN. WILLIAM CALDWELL, SPOKESMAN, MULTINATIONAL FORCE, IRAQ: It is very, very challenging to stop somebody who is willing to give their life to try to take somebody else's life. And, you know, there are stringent security requirements out there.
Obviously, we're going to go back and redouble our efforts and re-look at how that is being done.
DAMON: The insurgency's message clear. It can infiltrate and strike anywhere.
Earlier, a suicide truck bomber strategically detonated, collapsing one of northern Baghdad's major bridges, sending vehicles toppling into the Tigris River.
Divers searched the waters for survivors.
DAMON (on camera): Iraqis we spoke to following these attacks said that they were simply frustrated and saddened, one woman saying that this was just proof that no one was safe and a clear indication that a government that is powerless to save itself is powerless to save its people.
Arwa Damon, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEO)
PILGRIM: Congressional Democrats will go to the White House Wednesday to meet with President Bush about the war in Iraq. The Democrats are demanding negotiations about their war funding bills. Now, those bills call for the withdrawal of our combat troops from Iraq next year.
The White House insists the president will not negotiate with the Democrats. The White House calls the meetings Wednesday a "discussion."
Democrats are also blasting the White House in the political fight over the abrupt firing of eight U.S. attorneys. Senate Judiciary Committee chairman, Senator Patrick Leahy, is accusing White House staff of lying about missing e-mails.
The White House admits the e-mails have been lost. It says it's trying to retrieve them.
Lawyers for three former Duke lacrosse players may sue the district attorney who launched the case.
The district attorney, Mike Nifong, has apologized to the athletes, who have been cleared of sexual assault charges. But that apology seems unlikely to prevent a lawsuit or stop demands for Nifong's dismissal.
Jason Carroll reports.
(BEGIN VIDEO) JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT, RALEIGH, NORTH CAROLINA: The three former Duke lacrosse players, along with their families, finally heard what they had insisted from the beginning was the truth.
ROY COOPER, NORTH CAROLINA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Based on the significant inconsistencies between the evidence and the various accounts given by the accusing witness, we believe these three individuals are innocent of these charges.
CARROLL: During an emotional news conference, the three players described what it feels like to be publicly vindicated.
DAVE EVANS, FORMER DUKE UNIVERSITY LACROSSE PLAYER: It's been 395 days since this nightmare began. And finally, today, it's come to closure.
COLLIN FINNERTY, FORMER DUKE UNIVERSITY LACROSSE PLAYER: Knowing I had the truth on my side was really the most comforting thing of all throughout the past year.
CARROLL: Collin Finnerty, Dave Evans and Reade Seligmann never wavered from their original statements to police, that they had not raped an exotic dancer hired to perform at a team party last spring.
READE SELIGMANN, FORMER DUKE UNIVERSITY LACROSSE PLAYER: This entire experience has opened my eyes up to a tragic world of injustice I never knew existed.
CARROLL: The rape charges had already been dropped. But in a dramatic news conference, Attorney General Roy Cooper said he was also dismissing the remaining kidnapping and assault charges.
COOPER: We believe that these cases were the result of a tragic rush to accuse and a failure to verify serious allegations.
CARROLL: Cooper called Michael Nifong, the Durham district attorney who originally brought the case, a rogue prosecutor who had overreached his authority.
COOPER: The Durham district attorney pushed forward unchecked. There were many points in this case where caution would have served justice better than bravado.
CARROLL: Defense attorneys also criticized how the media initially covered the case.
UN: If they had done what journalists are supposed to do and spoken truth to power, they could have slowed this train down.
CARROLL: But the harshest criticism was leveled against Nifong, who had publicly criticized the players for months, but then when the allegations began unraveling, asked the attorney general to take over the case.
Nifong now faces ethics charges on allegations he mishandled the case and kept exculpatory evidence from the defense. Defense attorneys say the final act of justice should be to remove Nifong from office and have him disbarred.
Jason Carroll, CNN, Raleigh, North Carolina.
(END VIDEO)
PILGRIM: Still to come, tainted pet food still being sold in some stores despite the recall. We'll have the story.
Also, China is flooding this country with dangerous imports. But the Bush administration is actually cutting the number of safety inspections. We'll have a special report.
And CBS cancels Don Imus' radio show. Is it time for a new civil rights era? Is it time to eliminate hypocrisy?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: New developments in the contaminated pet food scandal. Tainted pet food is still being sold in some stores, according to the Food and Drug Administration.
And as Lisa Sylvester reports, a Senate panel wants to know whether federal inspectors can really keep our food supply safe for pets and humans.
(BEGIN VIDEO)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT, WASHINGTON (voice-over): The answers were not very comforting. The Food and Drug Administration said it's not ready to give an all-clear on the tainted pet food.
UN: We are not at that point yet.
SEN. HERB KOHL, D-WISCONSIN: So, it's possible that there may be yet additional recall of products?
UN: That's a possibility.
SYLVESTER: The FDA is trying to account, pound by pound, where the tainted wheat gluten, originating in China, actually ended up.
Troubling to the senators, the fact that less than a third of pet food manufacturers have been inspected by the FDA in the last 3.5 years.
Countries like China lack many basic safety regulations. The human food supply could also be in jeopardy.
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN, D-ILLINOIS: What disturbs me about this incident is that it confirms yet again that pet food, as well as human food, is at risk, because of the gaps in the system of regulation and inspections that govern our food industry in America today.
SYLVESTER: The Pet Food Institute, representing manufacturers, insists this was an aberration. UN: Contamination that came in, foreign contamination of an ingredient that all the regulation in the world would not really have captured that.
SYLVESTER: The industry is working with the World Health Organization on international standards. But senators are still concerned that U.S. inspections have not kept up with stepped-up imports.
The FDA is now screening imported wheat gluten - a little late for those pet owners mourning the loss of their companions.
(END VIDEO)
SYLVESTER (on camera): Officially, the federal government says only 16 pets have died from the tainted food. But in the hearing, the FDA acknowledged that number is certain to go up.
After they confirm all of the affected food is off the market, inspectors will then review records and establish a more accurate count - Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Lisa Sylvester.
Communist China is at the center of other threats to American consumers, as well. Now, so far this year, the Consumer Product Safety Commission has announced 101 product recalls, and of those recalls, 65 were for products made in China and imported here.
As Bill Tucker reports, instead of strengthening the agency that is most responsible for consumer safety, the Bush administration has cut its resources significantly.
(BEGIN VIDEO)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Consumer safety has been reduced to a war of numbers. And the numbers are not on the consumer's side.
The Consumer Product Safety Commission has suffered budget cuts, its staff slashed by over 50 percent, and the number of products it's responsible for has increased by 50 percent.
The lab is old and outdated, and the commission is short one commissioner.
SEN. MARK PRYOR, D-ARKANSAS: I think that this is almost a strategy of victory by attrition, that if you can bring the agency down and weaken it and weaken it and weaken it, they just don't have the manpower to do the things they need to do.
TUCKER: Compounding the problem is the staggering increase in imported goods. When the CPSC was created in 1973, we had a trade surplus. Last year our trade deficit in products topped $386 billion.
More and more of what we buy is made in plants outside of the United States, and with the loss of manufacturing has come a loss of control over manufacturing processes.
That can and has created some very serious consequences, like lead in products for children.
DAVID MAYS, CONSUMER REPORTS: We found lead in vinyl lunch boxes, even on things like high chairs and on baby bibs and other vinyl products that certainly could potentially expose a child to lead.
TUCKER: Earlier this month, two product recalls were items made in China for kids to play with, contaminated with lead.
Instead of stepping up vigilance, the president has proposed cutting the agency's budget. And many of the most experienced people at the CPSC have taken early retirement, lured by incentives to further reduce the staff.
(END VIDEO)
TUCKER (on camera): And it appears the president is stacking the commission with industry veterans. The acting head is a former lobbyist and the head of the consumer affairs for the Chamber of Commerce.
And the man nominated to fill the final commission slot and then run the CPSC, Kitty, is an executive vice president with the National Association of Manufacturers.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Bill Tucker.
The Bush administration said it plans to impose sanctions on Chinese coated paper imports, and that would benefit America's middle class.
But, as "Business Week" first reported, it turns out the biggest winners of the first trade actions against China would be private equity firms.
Christine Romans reports on the growing cynicism over the U.S. trade policy with China.
(BEGIN VIDEO)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Coated paper is used in everything from textbooks to magazines to annual reports.
In announcing potential duties against subsidized paper from China, the Bush administration said it was standing up for Americans.
CARLOS GUTIERREZ, SECRETARY OF COMMERCE: We are demonstrating our continued to commitment to create an environment of true competition for American manufacturers, for workers and farmers.
ROMANS: And don't forget private equity.
As first reported by "Business Week," super-rich investment firms own huge stakes in the American coated paper industry.
NewPage of Dayton, Ohio, is owned by Cerberus Capital Management, whose chairman is John Snow, former treasury secretary in the Bush administration.
A Cerberus spokesman said Snow did not make calls on NewPage's behalf, and called any suggestion that his White House ties influenced trade policy "uncalled for insinuation."
Another coated paper company, Verso Paper, is an affiliate of powerful private equity firm, Apollo Management.
The Bush administration essentially using its first timid trade action against China to benefit super-rich investors, in an industry not even a rounding error in U.S.-Chinese error.
CHARLES MCMILLION, MBG INFORMATION SERVICES: The battle with China now is over cars, airplanes, computers, cell phones. It's over technology products, high-value-added products for the next generation.
And, you know, fooling around with paper is just going in the wrong direction.
ROMANS: Meanwhile, the wreckage of years of trade policies bore out in new figures from the World Trade Organization.
Chinese exports of manufactured goods surpassed U.S. manufacturing exports last year for the first time ever.
(END VIDEO)
ROMANS (on camera): If the government goes through with countervailing duties on coated paper, it could save an estimated 4,000 jobs at NewPage alone. But the Commerce Department can still back down.
Meanwhile, the Chinese are furious, one official this week saying American protectionism will hurt the global economy, Kitty.
PILGRIM: Well, the U.S. did file two complaints against China in the WTO, correct?
ROMANS: That's right. Two complaints this week against copyright and anti-piracy.
Some say that shows the United States has lost patience, that they are starting to get tough on China. Others say it's far too little too late, when you take a look at the mammoth trade deficit that we have.
These might be just symbolic gestures to try to get Congress to back down from its own measures. But, indeed, the Chinese say it's not helpful for the United States to be standing up and leveling - trying, at least, to level the playing field.
PILGRIM: Well, that's their viewpoint anyway.
ROMANS: That's right.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Christine Romans.
Coming up, compelling testimony about the confession of a naturalized citizen accused of passing military secrets to Communist China. We'll have a report on that.
And the escalating drug violence in Mexico. Warring cartels have taken the violence to an even more disturbing level. We'll have the latest.
And radio host Don Imus fired for his racially offensive and sexist remarks. But does the controversy go beyond Imus and his comments?
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The trial of Chi Mak, a naturalized U.S. citizen accused of passing military technology and secrets to Communist China. That trial continued this week. And among those testifying, the Naval intelligence officer who interrogated Mak.
Casey Wian reports from Santa Ana, California.
(BEGIN VIDEO)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT, SANTA ANA, CALIFORNIA (voice- over): Naval intelligence agent, Gunnar Newquist, testified that accused spy, Chi Mak, lied repeatedly during videotaped questioning the day he was arrested for allegedly passing military technology to China.
Two days later, after investigators found incriminating documents in Mak's modest home, the agent says Mak admitted to passing restricted data to China since 1983.
But that alleged confession was not video or audio taped. The agent took notes, but they were incomplete.
RONALD KAYE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR CHI MAK: It's our position he didn't make half of those statements. And it was very clear that, even in the agent's own notes, the most important areas are missing.
So, we believe that that actually did not - the incriminating statements that the government says my client presented, actually did not occur.
WIAN: Prosecutors showed the jury a computer disk seized from Chi Mak's brother, Tai Mak, at Los Angeles International Airport before he could depart on a trip to Hong Kong and China.
On that disk, dozens of hidden and encrypted files with information about military programs. Some were classified, others restricted from foreign distribution.
Prosecutors say Tai Mak planned to deliver the disk to a Chinese government representative, giving a potential U.S. enemy crucial information about a power system that helps submarines and warships avoid detection.
RICHARD FISHER, INTERNATIONAL ASSESSMENT AND STRATEGY CENTER: China is working on practically every kind of weapons system that the United States is working on.
Above and beyond that, China intently is trying to find out and understand all that it can about every weapon system the United States is working on, in order to be able to defeat them.
WIAN: Prosecutors say some of that work is being done by naturalized U.S. citizens such as Chi Mak, a defense industry engineer, and legal resident aliens such as his brother, Tai, a Chinese television engineer.
Both their wives and a nephew await trial on similar charges next month.
WIAN (on camera): Prosecutors are expected to take several more days to present their evidence in the case. Defense attorneys say they're eager to present their side. But they won't say if Chi Mak himself will take the stand.
Casey Wian, CNN, Santa Ana, California.
(END VIDEO)
PILGRIM: Joining me now are Kieran Chetry and John Roberts. And they will begin anchoring AMERICAN MORNING, starting on Monday.
And Kieran, I understand you have an important new series, "Children of War." Can you tell us a little bit about that?
KIERAN CHETRY, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Sure. Hi, Kitty. Nice to see you.
What we wanted to do was take a look at some of the sacrifices here at home, the thousands of children, and in many cases, husbands and wives, left behind when their spouses are called into the theater of war.
And this video you're looking at is the Snell (ph) family. They live up in West Point. Seven boys, ranging in age from 12 years old to 20 months, and their mom is left to take care of them as their dad serves his second tour of duty in Iraq.
We had a chance not only to talk to her about how it feels raising those kids without their dad, but also to talk to the boys. So, it really is a great story, Kitty.
And John Roberts, of course, my new co-host starting Monday. You had a chance - or you're going to have a chance - to talk to John and Elizabeth Edwards. That should be an exciting interview.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: It's going to be interesting, Kieran.
I've known John and Elizabeth Edwards for about seven years now. First met them back in the year 2000.
And, of course, she's out on the campaign trail now, as is he, just a couple of weeks after the diagnosis and all the news about cancer. We'll see how they're settling into that.
And we also want to try to cut past all of the campaign talk, the what-ifs, if I became president two years from now what I would do.
We're going to try to put them on the spot a little bit to say, wait a second. If you were president today, how would you handle a lot of these situations, from racism to the war in Iraq, to so many other different things.
So, Kitty, we're looking forward to all of that as we start a new AMERICAN MORNING on Monday.
PILGRIM: Well, thank you, John and Kieran. We'll absolutely be watching.
And again, that's AMERICAN MORNING, Monday, 6 a.m. Eastern.
Coming up, Don Imus, fired for his racially charged and sexist comments, but many say the controversy shouldn't end with Imus. We'll hear from three of the nation's leading voices on racism and sexism.
And violent Mexican drug cartels post their killings on YouTube. That shocking story when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The Rutgers University women's basketball team has accepted Don Imus' apology for his racially offensive and sexist remarks.
Imus met with the players just hours after being fired by CBS Radio.
But does this controversy go beyond Don Imus?
Now, Lou spoke with Bryan Monroe, president of the National Association of Black Journalists, Carol Swain of Vanderbilt University and Jason Whitlock, columnist for the "Kansas City Star." And Lou asked them for their reaction to the firing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON WHITLOCK, "KANSAS CITY STAR: I think it's kind of predictable. Once the advertisers started pulling away and the money went away, Don Imus became expendable. I don't think any great progress or any progress at all has been made for the cause of black women and for the cause of sexism, discrimination, people that are against that. I just think that Don Imus was a pawn in a bigger game of political agendas by different people -- Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.
I just don't see this -- I don't really care about Don Imus. He's nothing to me. But I don't think any progress has been made.
DOBBS: Bryan Monroe.
BRYAN MONROE, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLACK JOURNALISTS: Well, I would disagree with my friend from Kansas City. I actually think this is a watershed moment in American society.
Something has happened over the last few days, over the last few weeks -- since Friday. America is standing up and speaking and saying enough is enough. And I actually think this is an opportunities here for the American media to lead, to finally lead. You know, we all get beat up about catering to the lowest common denominator. Now, we've actually got a chance in the media. Television, radio, newspapers, magazines to lift up the level of discourse and change the conversation about race, about sexism, about tolerance and diversity.
DOBBS: Carol?
CAROL SWAIN, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: I hope that one of the impacts will be that it will cause people to address the use of the language of black rappers and comedians. Because they tend to degrade black women. And I would like to see some of the people that where involved in the call for Don Imus' resignation to also be active in the call for the black rappers and for the black comedians to cease degrading black women.
DOBBS: Let me turn to you again, if I may, Bryan, because as I say, your organization led the way on this issue.
There is an issue, to put my feelings straightforward on this, I believe that Don Imus, because of, as I've said, his exemplary humanitarianism. The work he's done for charity for our wounded warriors, returning from Iraq, for children with cancer. I don't know anyone, frankly, in media, who's done more.
There is an idea, and it was advanced by both Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson that that is of no moment and simply a side issue. Do you agree with that?
MONROE: Well, you know, I have a great deal of respect for all of his actions in -- in helping children, helping cancer victims, supporting the different charities.
But this issue is about what is -- what is inbounds and what is out of bounds. And I think for so long, we have -- have accepted language from radio hosts, from folks on television, from writers in newspapers and magazines and from rappers and entertainers, and we've just said it's OK. I don't think it's OK anymore. It hurts people. WHITLOCK: Lou, I want to add this. We just gave the death penalty to a guy that was jaywalking. And the real murderers are still out and on the loose and cashing checks and making rap songs and rap videos that really demean black women and black people.
This guy uttered a few words on a radio show. He apologized sincerely for it. And he was given the death penalty for a few words, for a few misspoken words.
People put out songs that make -- and videos that make women look like bitches and hos, and they get nothing. And no one has been outraged and done anything about this. This is why I must say -- and this is why I think this whole thing is a farce.
SWAIN: I think it's a sad day for free speech and that we would be much better off if we had a society where we allowed people to express themselves. And then their audiences, their peers, people that listen can make the judgments it's about them. And I believe it's unfortunate that we have a racial double standard when it comes to speech, that we tolerate all sorts of language when it's being done by black people to black people. But in the case of white people, there's a different standard.
I think we have to change the standard. And for black people it's not acceptable for us to call each other niggers or to call -- to allow the women to be degraded. To me, it's much more hurtful as a black woman to have black men calling me a bitch or calling me a ho than some white jerk like Don Imus.
WHITLOCK: That's it, exactly.
MONROE: I would agree with Carol and -- and go even further. In my magazine, "Ebony" magazine, two months ago, we wrote exactly that piece, saying enough, why blacks and whites should never use the "N" word again. So you know, there are folks out there taking those stands. But the larger issue about the audience...
SWAIN: Well, Jesse Jackson - where was Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and the black media, all of these years when the black rappers have been doing this for so long, and they've been getting away with it?
MONROE: Well, you know, I think you'll have to ask them about that. But more importantly, you talked about that the listeners and the advertisers should -- the marketplace should speak. That's what happened this week.
Listen, that's what happened. The marketplace spoke. The advertisers got the message. The -- his employers got the message. And the marketplace took action. They didn't want this on the air anymore.
WHITLOCK: They spoke about an easy target. He's an easy target. Trust me: these guys in the black community that are doing this, they're not an easy target. And that's why you don't see Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson sticking to this message and sticking to this call, because they know there's real risk here.
Don Imus is easy. Running him off the air was very easy. Changing this culture, this negative, hip-hop prison culture among black youth that is killing us, that's hard work. And it's going to be risky. But it's a task we have to take on. We can't just take it on one time with one magazine article. And I'm not disrespecting what your magazine did, Bryan.
But this is going to take a lot of work and a lot of commitment. And it's going to be a day by day, minute by minute thing that we, black people, have to take on. We can't keep scapegoating Don Imuses.
SWAIN: But also, I think that it also means that the -- that the white sponsors, and the white media, that they will have to be as involved in the case of the black rappers, and the black comedians as they were with Don Imus. We need to set a standard for all of America.
DOBBS: You know, as you talk about this, we look at the -- what are called the hot rap tracks by Billboard. I mean, I asked our folks to bring me some of the top songs. "This is Why I'm Hot", Bow Wow and R. Kelly. The song is "I'm a Flirt.
I have to tell you, I have two daughters, 19 years of age, one of whom loves rap. We've had a lot of discussion about this. One is absolutely enamored of this stuff. And she's a brilliant young lady in every other respect.
I can't imagine how this kind of language is tolerated by any of us. And it's a struggle for all of us as parents. But this isn't just a black problem. This isn't just a white problem. This is a society problem. What are we going to do? How do we deal with this, because this is a free country, after all?
MONROE: Well, we do exactly what's happening right now, Lou, on your show, on other shows, in newspapers and in radio. We start talking about it honestly. We talk about the fact that 80 percent of rap music is bought by white suburban kids. Not blacks. We talk about where that money comes from, who's profiting on those ...
DOBBS: Who's profiting? Who's profiting?
MONROE: It's not a lot of the artists. That's for sure.
WHITLOCK: A lot of the artists are producing it. And trust me, there are things if I wanted to be on TV making a lot of money, there are things I could have done that I chose not to do because my parents raised me better and I'm not going to disrespect them in any way.
MONROE: Amen.
WHITLOCK: And if we don't instill that in our kids, we're lost. And instead, what's going on with this Rutgers situation is we've turned these women into victims over some meaningless guy, Don Imus. We've put them on a cross and they're learning the power of playing the role of a victim. And I just want to tell people in America right now, black America, especially, there's no white man in control of your destiny. You are. And so take -- trust -- there's no magical white man. Don Imus didn't steal anyone's dream. You're in control of your dream. You're in control of your destiny. And unless we instill that in our kids, we're lost.
SWAIN: I also believe that there was a negative impact for black women, for black children, and it's the same negative impact that they have when they hear it coming from black rappers and black comedians.
And we do need to take this on as a society, take on the black rappers, as well as white people like Don Imus and hold everyone in the same standards. There is a negative impact. And black women are victims in a great sense of the way. And so it does need to be addressed. There is some harm that was done.
DOBBS: Bryan, let me ask you this, because amongst the other -- and Jason referred to other agendas here. We hear today from former majority leader Tom DeLay. He says, quote, if we can put this up -- I'd just love to get your reaction to this.
"Let not forget about the Dynamic Duo calling for Imus' resignation. They have their own past offenses, like the anti-Semitic slur used by the Rev. Jesse Jackson when he referred to New York City as 'Hymietown'. And the most eloquent Rev. Al Sharpton, who was convicted of libel when he publicly accused a white assistant district attorney of raping a young black girl."
And then goes on to refer to Rev. Sharpton's call for immediate justice in the Duke rape case.
You know, Jason Whitlock has talked about, it's a time for -- it's a time for a new era in civil rights. You and your organization took the lead on this, on this outrage by Don Imus.
But now, all we are seeing on our airwaves and on this broadcast, as well, is Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. Why have you receded? Why have we not heard other important voices, in addition to all of you, the Carols and Jasons, from the African-American community? Is it time for a new era? And is there a way? Is there a path to that era?
MONROE: Again, I think you're seeing that happen right now. As I scanned the television channels, it was pretty good this week. I saw a lot of voices out there. Eric Deggans at the "St. Pete Times". Your own Roland Martin. New voices that are challenging the status quo and showing that there is another way to lead all of America.
There's not just one black America out there. Black America is as diverse as all America is.
WHITLOCK: I certainly think we need new leadership. Jesse and Al have had their time at the forefront. It is time for new voices, new ideas, a new approach. It's not 1965, running out into the street and screaming, look at the white racists. It's not effective in 2007. That's not what we need. Those aren't our problems. DOBBS: Carol Swain, you get the last word. I hope it will be a real quick one, please.
SWAIN: I think it's easy for the media to go to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. They're self-appointed, self-anointed leaders, and when the media stops propping them up, then there can be some other voices heard.
DOBBS: Well, we thank you all for sharing your voices here tonight. Bryan -- Bryan Monroe, we thank you very much, the National Association of Black Journalists. Jason Whitlock, "Kansas City Star" columnist. Carol Swain, Vanderbilt University.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Coming up, Mexican drug cartels post their killings on YouTube. We'll have the shocking story. And Don Imus fired for his comments about the Rutgers women's basketball team. Is there hypocrisy in our national debate over racism and sexism? Three of the country's best political analysts weigh in on that and the week's other top stories. Will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Violent Mexican drug cartels are using the Internet as a weapon of hate against rival drug gangs. The gangs are taping their brutal killings and posting them on YouTube. We warn you, the video you're about to see is very disturbing. Harris Whitbeck has the report from Mexico City.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It looks like a video from Iraq -- a hostage bound, interrogated, tortured by his captors, who remain off camera. But the language is not Arabic. It is Spanish.
The country is not Iraq. It is Mexico.
And along with the threats scribbled on this hostage's body is a big "Z" which stands for the Zetas, the name of one of Mexico's many drug cartel hit squads. The victim allegedly a member of the Zetas. His captors apparently from a rival gang, seven of whose members were recently killed.
"Are you responsible for killing our people?" the interrogator asks. "Yes," he answers.
Soon after, the beheading takes place. As shocking as its content is the way the video was made public. It was put on YouTube, the U.S.-based Web site that allows anonymous users to post home videos. And while YouTube removed the posting after a few hours when it became aware of it, it is only the most recent posting on a variety of sites in what Internet security experts in Mexico say is a trend among the Mexican drug cartels. GABRIEL CAMPOLI, INTERNET CRIME EXPERT (through translator): It is a message to society, a way of saying that the government's efforts to combat drug trafficking have failed and that the cartels are alive and well.
WHITBECK: Here's another Mexican video that made the rounds on the Internet. The singer is Valentin Elizalde, who is said to have quite a following among drug traffickers. Over images of victims of the drug cartel battles, he sings what's known in Mexico as a narco ballad, "I am singing this song to my enemies" is the lyric.
Several months later, Elizalde himself wound up dead, shot 20 times. And pictures of his autopsy appeared on another Web posting.
Federal prosecutors in Mexico have seen many of these videos, and the chat room messages that they trigger. They say they are investigating them for clues that might lead to their authors.
But experts say Mexican law enforcement is ill-equipped to track criminals in cyberspace.
CAMPOLI (through translator): The problem is one of legislation. Mexican law does not allow the police to dig very deeply into the identities of people in danger. What we really need is a special prosecutor for Internet crime.
WHITBECK (on camera): The Web may be a powerful medium for transmitting drug traffickers' messages, but if properly investigated, it could also be a treasure trove of clues about their whereabouts and identities.
(voice over): In fact, at the end of that beheading video, a message scrolls on the screen that serves as both a clue for police and a warning to a rival drug lord. Citing the drug lord by name, the message says, "You're next."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Coming up next, three of the country's top political minds will be here, Diana West, Errol Louis and Robert Zimmerman. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: I am joined now by three of the country's best political analysts and journalists.
Now from Washington, "Washington Times" columnist Diana West. And in our New York studios, Errol Louis, columnist for the "New York Daily News." And Democratic strategist Robert Zimmerman. And thanks for being here.
Let's start with Don Imus. It really dominated the news. What's your reaction to the entire controversy?
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: To tell you, it was I think a water shed moment in terms of a moral awakening in America. That's my hope and dream. And one of the most important aspects of watching this story unfold is seeing so many important new voices come to the forefront, like on this program Bryan Monroe or professor Carol Swain. Mr. colleague Errol Louis who has been writing about this issue for the longest time.
And I think what is important here is to make sure that now that Don Imus has been - position has been terminated, that we keep the pressure on as the public to make sure there is not a double standard.
PILGRIM: Does this bring up a constructive national dialogue about this issue?
ERROL LOUIS, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": I think the discussion was going on in advance of this, to tell you the truth. This is really the latest and probably the most spectacular in a series of battles that have been going on in different markets around the country over degrading lyrics, degrading images, violence, not just violence on records or in lyrics but real world violence where we've had shootouts in front of radio stations here in New York and other places. It's long past time that this momentum came together and started to move the country forward.
PILGRIM: But is he bearing the burden of this entire discussion? Diana?
DIANA WEST, "WASHINGTON TIMES": Well, that remains to be seen. I mean, if silencing one shock jock does result in a turning point for us a mainstream - in cleaning up the mainstream, then that would be a good thing. But such a movement can not be led, by example, by an Al Sharpton, a demagogue who has made racial division and racial incitement his stock in trade.
If, however, the baton is passed on or at least taken up by parental groups, by professional groups, by other corporations to clean things up, what we need to see is energy directed at cleaning up Hollywood, cleaning up the music industry and these are the things that have to start happening.
LOUIS: Vivian Stringer ought to run for Senate, if you ask me.
PILGRIM: All right. Let's go to politics on that note.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates announced that soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan and Afghanistan, they'll have their duty tours extended. Now this deeply changes the political debate on Capitol Hill, doesn't it?
ZIMMERMAN: Well, it changes the debate. What we should be expecting and demanding from President Bush is not predictable. He has been all too predictable. We should be demanding accountability. We're sending our troops in without them being properly prepared for battle according to the army standards. We're sending them in without the proper military equipment.
And now 30 to 40 percent of our troops are serving extended tours.
LOUIS: Yeah, there is going to be a long term backlash, I think. We had a recruitment issue just two years ago when the Army was failing to make its numbers. I think going forward people are going to look really long and hard before they sign up for the Reserves, the National Guard or the on-line services. It's just not something you can put your family through.
A three month extension on a 12 month deployment, that's huge. That's a huge impact on families.
PILGRIM: Diana?
WEST: Well, it's a very complicated issue. I mean, when I think about the extension on the deployment, the first thing that popped into my head was my own father whose service during World War II was open ended until the war ended, pretty much.
But I think the national debate will open and should open to discuss the way the military has been handled. I think our military in many ways has been bled by having to wage a limited war that has not ended and has not brought about to an end and these are some of the issues that are driving this kind of - the kind of things that Robert is talking about as far as less-trained troops, troops without the proper gear, etc.
We are bleeding our troops in the way we conduct the war. I would hope that that is an issue that comes up and comes to the fore, not so much three months, 12 months versus 15 months which I think more reflects the president's resolve in this Hail Mary surge and I think that is what you're seeing. They want to keep this thing together to see if he can achieve what this surge is supposed to achieve.
PILGRIM: One last issue that I'd like to get to and that's Attorney General Alberto Gonzales testifies before the Senate Judiciary Committee next week. Now we have this whole issue with the missing e-mails and Senator Leahy has been very vocal about this. Can we listen to what he said, please.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY, (D) VT: I wouldn't want anybody to think these are lost e-mails. These are just e-mails they don't want to bring forth. If anyone of you are sending e-mails to any kind of a government server anywhere, they are not lost. We found this in the past. These things stay there forever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Now, are the e-mails threatening to become the new scandal on this issue?
ZIMMERMAN: It's one more scandal in this issue. And it reflects a White House that has, through its own political manipulation of the Department of Justice, been caught in one deceitful statement after another to Congress, which is why these hearings are so critical.
LOUIS: The e-mails will be found. E-mails will probably include very damaging information. The White House has got to start to cut its losses and try and put this scandal behind it.
PILGRIM: Diana?
WEST: I'm sorry. I just still haven't really gotten revved up over this so-called scandal. I still don't really get it and I'm finding the amount of time and energy that's being wasted searching for these e-mails and finding out what's a botched firing to be really besides the point in a very difficult time with many, many bigger problems.
PILGRIM: All right. I wish we had time to debate this at length because I can see everyone jumping out of their chairs. But we'll have plenty of time next week because this issue, Diana, is not going away. Errol Louis, Robert Zimmerman, Diana West. Thank you very much.
Coming up next, an important new documentary series on PBS begins this weekend. "America at a Crossroads." And we'll hear from the host, one of the country's most honored journalists, Robert McNeil. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: "America at a Crossroads" is a compelling documentary exploring the challenges confronting this country and the world after September 11th. Now the series of independently produced documentaries begins this weekend on PBS nationwide.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you're going to be for Afghanistan or for Iraq, then you should understand that you're asking other people to go 7,000 miles and fight people with very different views of civilization and fight them to the death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Veteran journalist Robert McNeil and former co-anchor of the "McNeil Lehrer News Hour" is the host of this powerful series. And Lou spoke with Robert McNeil about the landmark program.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: In the introduction of the series, you say that five years after September 11th, the consequences of our future are only now beginning to be perceptible, to come into focus. Tell us how.
ROBERT MCNEIL, HOST, "AMERICA AT A CROSSROADS": Well, I think in the wake of 9/11, we were all, most of us, consumed by the fear 9/11 produced. Suddenly, after we spent untold billions of dollars over the Cold War years to make us safe from Soviet threats, we found that all our defenses could be penetrated in this amazingly audacious way. (END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Again, "America at a Crossroads" begins this weekend. Thank you for joining us. Please join us tomorrow. For all of us here, thanks for watching. Enjoy your weekend. Good night from New York.
THIS WEEK AT WAR starts right now with John Roberts.
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