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Glenn Beck

Community Mourns Virginia Tech Slain

Aired April 17, 2007 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a day of mourning for the Virginia Tech community. And it is a day of sadness for our entire nation. We`ve come to express our sympathy.

In this time of anguish, I hope you know that people all over this country are thinking about you and asking God to provide comfort for all who have been affected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, HOST: President Bush speaking at a memorial convocation at Virginia Tech earlier today. Good evening. I`m Michael Smerconish, in tonight for Glenn Beck.

The shooter in the horrible tragedy at Virginia Tech has been identified as English student Cho Seung-Hui from South Korea. As this terrible story unfolds, those of us at the Glenn Beck program would like to express our condolences to the Virginia Tech students, teachers, staff and their families.

Here`s what`s on my mind tonight. Let`s remember this was the work of one person and not our entire society. In the immediate aftermath of this tragedy, I`ve watched it become fodder for an indictment for our entire American way of life.

Observers on airwaves and online have framed this tragedy as a reflection of American culture, of American parenting and of American kids far removed from Blacksburg, Virginia.

I`ve also noticed that, in our efforts to grieve and cope and work towards prevention, we`re reaching out to the same old solutions: clamp down on guns, cordon the campuses, curtail violent video games, sex and pornography.

Now to be sure, our culture needs a scrubbing. But relative to guns isn`t the reality that those few disturbed among us, if not by firearm, will find another way to spur a tragedy.

There`s no denying that this was a tragic event, but one person committed these acts, not our American society, and as it turns out that one person himself was not an American.

It seems to me that our immediate challenge is to identify the individuals who will use guns to act out like Cho Seung-Hui. We need to know who will watch a violent movie, a vengeful character or a murderous news account and try to inject themselves into that part of the plot: 99.99 percent of Americans will not do so.

So how can we move forward? We have to identify the bad guys sooner, even if that means stepping on a couple of PC toes. And we need to get back to punishing the evil doers we`ve already identified.

One final thought. This event is no reason to sacrifice freedom and liberty in an educational setting. We cannot allow one person on one college campus to force us to overturn the freedoms and liberties we`ve built our country upon.

Let`s remember what Professor James Fox from Northeastern told me here yesterday: the odds of falling victim to violence on campus are still minuscule.

Joining me now from Blacksburg is CNN correspondent John Zarrella.

John, what`s the scene like now?

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michael, I think, you know, in answer somewhat to the question that you posed about American culture, U.S. culture, I think what frames part of the culture here, too, is how the students and the people in this community are joining together, are lifting each other up here.

It is another symbol of the culture in America: people coming together in this grieving period and helping each other out.

And we are here at Montgomery Regional Hospital, where we have seen that outpouring of support for the last two days. Many students have come here carrying flowers and gifts to visit their friends, bringing with them the wishes of other friends, standing by them. We`re with you. We`re here to support you, whatever you need.

We talked to some who said they didn`t press their wounded friends for details of what had happened. They were just there to listen and to be there for them and to represent those who could not be there for them, who were thinking about them.

The injuries, the horror of the injuries here, we talked to one of physician very early this morning. He said he saw no less than three gunshot wounds in all of the victims that he attended to. The shooter was brutal, is the way he described what he witnessed here.

And that certainly is a testament to the strength of the surgical teams here to get through this hospital. Had 17 patients who came in. Today there are nine still here. All are now in stable condition.

But, again, Michael, it is that outpouring of the strength that these people here in and around Blacksburg and this community that are showing that is remarkable testament to them and to that fabric of American culture that you talked about -- Michael.

SMERCONISH: In other words, John, each one of those shooting victims was shot multiple times, a minimum of three?

ZARRELLA: That is what the surgeon told us. He said that every one that he attended to suffered at least three gunshot wounds in the abdomen, in the arms.

We talked to students who -- who had just visited their friends who said I visited a friend who was shot in the wrist. Another couple came and said I visited a friend who was shot twice in the leg, once in the arm.

Another one came and said the friend that they visited was one of the students who had jumped out of the second story window to escape the maelstrom of bullets. And that he`s doing OK, really didn`t want to talk about what had happened. It is still too fresh, too raw in his mind. And they basically said, "Look, we didn`t press him. We were there to listen."

SMERCONISH: Wow. John, thank you very much.

Many questions remain, specifically about the timeline of yesterday`s events. Parents and students are asking why it took so long for school officials to issue a campus wide alert after the initial shootings hours before the gunman continued his rampage.

I`m joined now by a former commander of the FBI hostage rescue team, security expert Danny Colson.

Danny, the question people are asking today, why the two-hour delay?

DANNY COLSON, SECURITY EXPERT: I think that`s a question we all want to know the answer to. And I think that what you have to understand here is that, in a situation like this, when you claim that you`re operating on the information that you have at the time, one thing you have to remember is that, in situations like this, the information you have initially is almost universally bad.

So when you make decisions based on bad information, you`re likely to make the wrong decision. And I think that`s really the key here, is that if your information wasn`t good, but you should know it`s not going to be good in situations like this.

And if you have a prior plan and you stick to your plan, and even if your information is bad, you tend to make the right decisions. And there obviously wasn`t a plan here.

SMERCONISH: Professor -- pardon me, Charles Steger, the president, not professor, the president of Virginia Tech, has answered to this issue, and I`d like you to watch what he`s had to say so far and then to react to it.

COLSON: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES STEGER, PRESIDENT, VIRGINIA TECH: We had one shooting early in the morning that initially, and we don`t know the answer to this, appeared to be a domestic fight, perhaps a murder-suicide. It was characterized by our security people as being contained to that dorm room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: So Danny, what if it had been a domestic disturbance? Would the protocol nevertheless have been to put the whole place in a lockdown?

COLSON: I think so. The rule is, and we have a lot of clients we deal with these issues with on a regular basis, and I think any police officer that deals in active shooter situations will tell you this, is that until you have someone in custody, you need to lock down. That`s actually the bottom line, and that`s the thing that everybody is taught. And if you don`t have either a dead subject or a subject in handcuffs, then you lock it down.

Obviously, it could have been a very fluid situation, which it turned out to be. And the way to prevent that tragedy that occurred here is to go ahead and lock it down.

You lose nothing by locking down. If you lock down, you can always unlock. But if you don`t lock down, you suffer the possibilities that`s happened here, that you don`t have it contained and an individual can go out and create other incidences.

Or that he`s got a confederate with him. There could be two shooters and you never know.

So the best thing to do, and the thing we always teach in all these schools we`ve put on, is that first, lock down. Give your chance -- give chances to your staff, your faculty and your students to barricade themselves, if necessary, and to prevent themselves from being slaughtered, as happened here.

SMERCONISH: I -- I know that the criticism is that the e-mail was two hours delayed. And as a lay person, someone who lacks your credentials, my response to that was to say why an e-mail? Isn`t that a bit presumptuous to assume that everybody is going to see an e-mail? And shouldn`t there be another mode of communication on a college campus?

COLSON: Absolutely. And let`s use this as an example. If the building was on fire, would you send them an e-mail? This place was on fire, so to speak. And the best way to do it is through a P.A. system or through a claxon system or a siren system.

SMERCONISH: What is a claxon system?

COLSON: It`s a noise device, basically. It`s sort of like a siren that will sound and give -- and you hear them on ships mostly. You see them on some buildings. That gives an alert that there`s a problem.

And again, proper planning here to set up a system so you can notify people not by e-mail. That doesn`t work, obviously.

SMERCONISH: Hey, Danny. We`ve got just a minute remaining, and I want to get your thoughts on this. Put this, if you would, please, in a national security context. What, if anything, does it say about us approaching the six-year mark post-September 11?

COLSON: It says we`re not prepared for these situations. Whether it`s another school in the United States, a business, a hospital, a daycare center, they don`t think about these things. And without a plan, tragic things can occur.

SMERCONISH: Thank you, Danny.

COLSON: Thank you.

SMERCONISH: Up next, how the students of Virginia Tech are dealing in the aftermath of this unspeakable tragedy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The shooter came in and shot almost the whole class.

He just stepped within five feet of the door and just started firing. He seemed very thorough about it, getting almost everyone down. I pretended to be dead.

When we left, only four of us left, and two of them were minor injured, and everyone else was unconscious, either dead or hurt seriously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RICHELLE CAREY, HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: I`m Richelle Carey with your Headline Prime news break.

The latest now from Virginia Tech. In about an hour, a day of mourning concludes with a candlelight vigil.

Also tonight, police are examining a note written by the student blamed for the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history. The state police chief says it is not a suicide note, but 22-year-old Cho Seung-Hui reportedly ended the note with the words, "You caused me to do this."

Ballistic tests tied one of the two guns retired from the scene to both campus shooting. Two people died in a dormitory, 30 more died in the engineering building before Cho killed himself.

The weapons, a 9 mm and .22 caliber, both semiautomatic handguns legally purchased by Cho. Police say the serial numbers had been filed off, but the ATF laboratory has recovered those numbers.

And a quick action by a student may have saved several lives during the shooting. Senior Zach Petkewicz barricaded a classroom door inside the engineering building, preventing Cho from breaching the 11 students inside.

Stay with us for the latest on this tragedy. I`m Richelle Carey.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard five shots on campus and we could hear the emergency speaker system. So we all got down underneath the desk and moved away from the windows.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just stepped five feet of the door and just started firing. He seemed very thorough about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People came pouring out the door with their hands up and they were screaming and stuff like that. I guess two kids jumped out of the window.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was like a continuous gunfire going off. Like, every second or so there would be another shot. There were approximately 50 shots total.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was kind of going up to people and then shooting them in the head, pretty point blank range. It was horrible images that you never want to see again in your mind.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This man was brutal. There was no -- there wasn`t a shooting victim that didn`t have less than three bullet wounds in them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I started trying to call everybody, all my friends. All my friends (UNINTELLIGIBLE) at the hospital.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s someone that no one will ever get over. I mean, the people who died, yes, they`ve finished their pain. But the pain for everybody else will go on forever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: In a case like this tragic massacre at Virginia Tech, the worst mass shooting in America`s modern history, the casualties are almost too many to count.

In addition to the 32 students and faculty who senselessly lost their lives at the hands of Cho Seung-Hui, the shooter, who also took his own life, the entire Virginia Tech campus and its surrounding community will suffer from yesterday`s wounds for years to come.

Joining me now for a look at coping strategies for those affected by the Virginia Tech shooting is Dr. Nadine Kaslow, a professor at Emery University and chief of psychology at Gradine Hospital.

Doctor Kaslow, what have we learned about dealing with a tragedy like this from past instances such as Columbine? In other words, is there a protocol of sorts?

DR. NADINE KASLOW, PROFESSOR, EMERY UNIVERSITY: Well, we`ve learned a great deal from prior incidents, but I don`t believe that there`s a protocol. I think each community needs to deal with this differently and yet learn from what`s been done before.

One of the things we know is that it`s crucial for the community to pull together, for all the members to support one another, to be caring, to respect that people grieve and mourn in different ways and for those outside the community to lend as much care and support as they possibly can.

SMERCONISH: No doubt the folks at Virginia Tech were caught unaware by this tragedy in the same way that the people at Columbine were caught unaware a number of years ago. So who do you call? I mean, I don`t wish to be crass about it, but is there one place? Is there one area that you go for expertise?

KASLOW: No, there`s not one area. There`s many areas. I think that you can go to the clergy, who have expertise. I think that the mental health professionals all have expertise. There are people who specialize in dealing with critical incidents, and you can turn to them for expertise.

But I think so much of the expertise is within the community itself, within the people in the community themselves.

SMERCONISH: Each one of these contexts has its own unique circumstances and perhaps those that are locally based are best prepared to deal with the tragedy of this nature?

KASLOW: Well, I think that those that are locally based are crucial and I think you want to combine that with local and national expertise.

SMERCONISH: How about a coping strategy, Doctor, for anger? Because I`m not sure what the steps are and if they apply to a scenario like this where it`s a mass tragedy, meaning those typical post-death steps. But I know that anger is on that typical list.

KASLOW: There`s no question that an incidence like this, there will be tremendous anger and people don`t even know who to direct all their anger and their rage to. I think it`s a normal reaction to this. I think it`s something people need to be able to talk about. I think people can use their usual coping strategies for anger like exercise, for example.

But I also think that people need to be careful, that they don`t use their anger and add to the violence.

SMERCONISH: Doctor Kaslow, one of the other thoughts that I had that I was anxious to get your expertise upon is this: it occurs to me we`re most concerned about the people directly affected by the tragedy.

But this is now a national tragedy, and across the country folks with no direct connection to what went on in Blacksburg, Virginia, are themselves grieving. It would not surprise to learn that there`s depression in California or there`s depression in Texas as a result of this tragedy.

So what`s the message that you have for individuals who are out there in the country but on sort of the perimeter of this tragedy but nevertheless feeling its effects?

KASLOW: Well, I do think people throughout the country and actually throughout the world are feeling the effects of this devastating tragedy.

And I think that people need, again, in various communities to bond together, think about things that they can do to help the Virginia Tech community and the families who so tragically lost their loved ones.

I think if people are feeling sad or depressed or what we call vicarious traumatization, so that somebody else is traumatized and you vicariously experience the symptoms of post traumatic distress disorder, or acute stress disorder, then you need to talk to others for support, for counsel. And if those persist or really interfere with your functioning, then you need to get professional help.

SMERCONISH: We just have a moment left, but one also hopes that Virginia Tech doesn`t become stigmatized, that there are some positive connotations that still come to mind when one thinks of Virginia Tech. They`ve had a stellar reputation for many, many years.

KASLOW: I think that`s absolutely true. And I think if you just witnessed the memorial service that they`re having today, they`re really pulling together, both dealing with this tragedy but celebrating life and the strength and resilience of their community.

And we wish them all the best during this very difficult time.

SMERCONISH: Thank you, Doctor Kaslow. We`ll be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMERCONISH: The campus of Virginia Tech was not prepared for this kind of tragedy, and neither were the area hospitals. Four rural hospitals in southwest Virginia were overwhelmed when more than two dozen victims flooded the emergency rooms yesterday. Many of the victims, and according to one account, all of them had multiple gunshot wounds.

Dr. William Brady is an emergency medicine professor at the University of Virginia.

Doctor, in today`s Washington post, you were quoted as saying, "The total number of gunshot wounds would swamp any hospital, especially those in rural areas with limited resources."

So how, then, does a local, small hospital deal with this sort of tragedy?

DR. WILLIAM BRADY, EMERGENCY MEDICAL PROFESSOR: Well, any hospital or hospital system needs to train and have plans in advance so that when a disaster does occur, they can activate their plan, which brings to bear all the resources of their hospital, perhaps even neighboring hospitals.

And, you know, from what I`ve seen, looking at the media, I think these four hospitals did a splendid job in terms of taking care of the patients.

SMERCONISH: In other words, in the same way that law enforcement nationwide, large and small, need to be prepared and go through preparedness drills, so too does the medical community?

BRADY: Oh, yes, sir, yes, sir. Individual hospitals, of course, should train and have plans in place, which most do. They need to be practiced in the hospital. They need to be practiced out of the hospital with the EMS providers.

Certainly, hospitals need to work together within regions, and neighboring regions need to work together to support one another. And that all happened yesterday and continues to happen today.

SMERCONISH: As an expert in emergency room medicine, tell me how does one prioritize among different victims? They all come in at once. Here they are, multiple gunshot wounds. What`s the drill?

BRADY: Well, the correct drill, the correct way to approach a disaster like this is to have a very nice, cohesive EMS system that works very closely with the hospitals that are in that area.

And correct care starts prior to arrival at the hospital. EMS providers on scene will set up incident command areas and, essentially, begin the process of triage, where they identify patients and the level of injury and the speed which they need to be transported to the hospital. And potentially, if you have multiple hospital destinations, which hospitals they should go to.

So that process actually starts prior to arrival in the hospital. Once people arrive in the hospital or the hospitals, then the hospital itself will continue on with that same process that was initiated by EMS providers and continue to reassess people because conditions do change. People that were stable can deteriorate, and people that were quite sick that have been correctly stabilized by EMS providers can actually have a lower level of triage once they arrive at the hospital.

So after arrival at the hospital, the triage process occurs again and people that have urgent needs are taken care of immediately, while people of less urgent needs may have to wait for a short period of time. Or if they have minimal needs at that point, they may have to wait for a longer period of time.

SMERCONISH: One quick question, Mr. Brady. How do you maintain your own emotional health after you`ve been caring for an 18-year-old, a 19-, a 20-year-old gunshot victim with multiple gunshot wounds?

BRADY: Well, when you approach this sort of problem as a physician or a nurse, an EMS provider, you have to really approach it in two separate ways at the same time.

One, you have to approach it as a scientist, as a care provider and look at the problem, really, as a scientific issue and solve the patient`s medical problem.

At the same time you have to remain completely in touch with the human side of what`s going on in terms of the patient and you and any -- any loved ones that may be involved.

SMERCONISH: Can`t be easy. Dr. Brady, thank you, sir, for coming on. We really appreciate it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWS BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was -- I was completely scared out of my mind originally. I just went into a cowering position. And then I just realized, I mean, you got to do something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: So far, this is what we know.

Yesterday morning at 7:15 a.m., Cho Seung-Hui, a South Korean resident alien of the United States and a Virginia Tech senior, allegedly entered West Ambler Johnston Hall and killed two people in that dormitory.

He then went back to his room, rearmed himself with a .9-millimeter Glock and a .22-caliber handgun, left what`s been described as a disturbing note. And, at 9:15 a.m., Cho entered Virginia Tech`s engineering building, Norris Hall.

He chained the doors and opened fire once again, leaving no victim with less than three rounds in them. And, when the madness finally ended, Cho Seung-Hui had brutally murdered 32 students and faculty, before taking his own life by turning the gun on himself.

What we don`t know and perhaps what we will never know is why. What could possibly bring someone to commit such a horrific act? What possible explanation could help us understand the motivation behind the worst mass shooting in modern American history?

Don Clark is a former special agent for the FBI.

Mr. Clark, once again, it`s a loner.

DON CLARK, FORMER FBI INVESTIGATOR: Yes, it is a loner.

And we have talked about being the loners from time and time again. And I don`t want to paint a picture that everyone who by themselves or enjoy being by themselves are going to do something like this, because there are many loners who like to go fishing and maybe even jogging to be by themselves.

But this is a different mind-set that we`re dealing with here. We`re talking about somebody that is really anguished and got a lot of anger in them inside. And they have chosen other ways to deal with it. And that`s why this loner thing really keeps coming up.

SMERCONISH: Mr. Clark, by definition, doesn`t it make the loner harder to catch before he commits an act of violence like this, because there`s no social network; consequently, there`s nobody there to drop the dime that this guy is acting a little strange?

CLARK: You`re absolutely right.

But that is why there has to be some people that are somewhat close to a person this who is considered to be a loner. And, if it`s parents, if it`s other siblings, or even if it`s instructors, someone has to figure out that this person really enjoys being by themselves, or feels like that they cannot belong to another group, for whatever that reason those feelings have been generated.

SMERCONISH: Mr. Clark, I want to ask you, sir. The killer left a note railing against rich kids and debauchery and deceitful charlatans on campus. What does that reveal about this individual?

CLARK: Well, you know, working with profilers and psychiatrists and so forth, when you start to really point fingers at different groups of individuals, it really could mean that, somewhere along the line, that this individual had some encounters with these people, or people that he considered in those particular classes, that he really thought didn`t like him, belittled him in some way, and didn`t want him around.

And what that also really transmits to is that he obviously built up a lot of anguish, anger in his body. And we saw the results yesterday.

SMERCONISH: Final question, sir. Is there anything about Cho Seung- Hui that`s been revealed thus far that you, with your expertise, said, now, there`s a surprise?

CLARK: Well, you know, there`s not really a big surprise when I start to hear -- other than the fact that he came from -- it certainly appears to be a they well-to-do family, and he was very well-educated.

But, that not withstanding, we have seen those from time and time again. So, when you start looking at what was on that note and where the fingers were pointed, the only surprise is, is that someone didn`t catch this before it took place.

SMERCONISH: Mr. Clark, thank you for being here. We appreciate it very much.

CLARK: Thank you very much.

SMERCONISH: Let`s turn now to someone who knows all too well what it feels like to suffer a loss in a school shooting.

Darrell Scott is the father of Rachel Scott, a victim in the Columbine shooting and co-author of "Rachel`s Tears."

Mr. Scott, what occurs to me, sir, is, a number of years ago, you went exactly through what the families of 32 individuals are going through tonight. What is it that you wish you had known within those first 24 hours that you were grieving Rachel`s loss that perhaps you could impart to those individuals?

DARRELL SCOTT, FATHER OF COLUMBINE VICTIM: Well, for us, we would have just liked to have known whether Rachel was a victim or not, because we didn`t get word for 24 hours as to whether she was one of the victims that had been killed. We just surmised that by midnight of the first evening.

But, for all these families, they`re going through extreme shock right now. Some of them probably can`t even cry. They`re in so much shock, that they`re not even able to respond. But that`s followed by a period of extreme grief. And then anger comes in. There`s a whole wave of emotion after emotion that hits a person when they go through something like this.

And, right now, those wonderful people need to be with friends and family, people that know them and that they love and trust.

SMERCONISH: The best advice you would give them is the, for lack of a better word, the cocooning advice, to be around folks that you love and who love you?

SCOTT: Absolutely.

And, then, as the healing begins, one of the things I tell victims` families all the time is to choose to celebrate the life of the person you lost. Make choices of forgiveness. And that`s not -- this is not the time to talk about forgiveness. But make choices that don`t ruin your life for the rest of your life.

You can`t afford bitterness, anger. Right now, they don`t need to hear that. They just need to grieve. They need to experience the anger, experience the emotions. And, with time, they will begin to make choices for the rest of their lives.

SMERCONISH: Mr. Scott, a number of folks are saying, well, look, here`s Virginia Tech years after Columbine. We haven`t learned lesson X, Y or Z. How do you put the two of them in context? What is it that we haven`t done since the tragic loss of your daughter that still needs to be achieved?

SCOTT: Well, I think society, as a whole, has to take a look at each segment of what we do.

The entertainment business, the media, all those things, the music industry -- when I was a kid, the worst violence I could see on television was Opie getting in a fight over a peanut butter sandwich. And, today, kids have access, young people have access to not only violence, but how to make bombs. They have easy access to weapons. There`s a number of things that we have got to look at and to -- to bring adjustments to, to see this stopped.

SMERCONISH: There`s no doubt about it. I said at the outset of the program that our culture needs a scrubbing.

On the other hand, I grew up watching "The Three Stooges," and I didn`t go around going doink and putting my fingers in anybody`s eyes growing up.

SCOTT: Right. And I don`t think -- I think a lot of people can watch a violent movie and not do anything wrong.

But certain personality types -- and I heard you talking about the loners -- many times, it`s certain individuals who feed on violence, as Eric and Dylan did for a year before the Columbine tragedy. And, if enough that feeds into their minds and hearts, it eventually comes out in their actions.

SMERCONISH: Well, thank you for being here. And we still grieve for you loss. We appreciate your insights.

SCOTT: Thank you very much.

SMERCONISH: When we come back: The tragic shooting at Virginia Tech has brought the gun control debate back to the forefront.

I will be joined by rock legend and gun advocate Ted Nugent. You won`t want to miss this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWS BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was kind of going up to people and then shooting them in the head pretty point blank range. At that point, he started shooting multiple people, a lot of them in the front row. And then lots of us panicked and then went under our desks and tried to take cover.

I mean, just horrible images that you never want to see again in your mind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SMERCONISH: The Virginia Tech massacre is almost certain to reignite the debate about our gun laws. Cho Seung-Hui was found with a backpack containing a receipt for a Glock .9-millimeter pistol that he bought in March. His fingerprints were also found on two handguns used in the rampage, while the serial numbers on the weapons had been filed off.

I`m joined by Ted Nugent, legendary entertainer, as well as outspoken sportsman and gun advocate.

Ted, a lot of folks wonder, what does Ted Nugent think as he reacts to a tragedy such as this?

TED NUGENT, MUSICIAN: Well, I think with the same heart-and-soul logic that America joins you today with a grieving and shattered heart, Michael.

The Nugent family is praying as hard as we have ever prayed for the families, and equally so for the pulse of America that is allowing this mind-set that somehow gun-free zones, with irrefutable evidence that all these tragedies, all these mass shootings have occurred across the board in gun-free zones.

Yet, there are still those amongst those who desire the very system of a gun-free zone that facilitates and enables this kind of unstoppable slaughter.

And my stomach is absolutely sickened right now. I`m spending a lot of time with my children, with the local schools and local law enforcement, as I have, following every tragedy, and, obviously, just as a concerned parent, to make sure that the tactics, the level of awareness, the observation increase and upgrade is taking place in my neighborhoods. And I encourage all parents to be that involved and demand an upgrade, based on the evidence that we have now.

SMERCONISH: In other words, Ted Nugent says there will be those who will say this is exhibit A now as to why there needs to be increased gun regulation. And your reply is, indeed, there was gun regulation on the Virginia Tech campus. It was a gun-free zone. And, if you can`t have safety there, then it tells you something.

NUGENT: And, again, Michael, you know, I`m just a guitar player, but I like to pay attention to my wonderful country. And the evidence is unlimited, non-stop, irrefutable once again across this country.

In Oregon, where a Columbine tragedy was unfolding, it was a student who went to his truck and got a .22 squirrel rifle and stopped the mass murder. It was a citizen, an off-duty cop in Salt Lake City, that stopped an armed monster from killing citizens at random. He stopped it.

It was just up the road from Virginia Tech where an Appalachia law school, students once again retrieved legally owned firearms and stopped an armed assault. Who is not getting this information? Who is pretending this isn`t how it works? Those are the people I`m really angry at.

SMERCONISH: Ted, this morning, on my radio program -- and I knew this comment was coming -- and you have heard it before -- more than one individual said to me, why does someone need a .9-millimeter Glock? That N-word, need, would you respond to that?

NUGENT: Well, Michael, there are hundreds of millions -- and I hope people will write this down some day -- hundreds of millions of law-abiding American families with hundreds of millions of lawfully owned guns, none of which are going to be used in violence, crime or accident.

The sheer numbers of zeros following the decimal point in the percentage of guns used in crime is beyond inconsequential. That does not compromise or negate the heartbreaking tragedy of any kind of accident, any kind of violent crime.

But when will we learn that, at Luby`s cafeteria, at Pearl, Mississippi, at the pizza parlor in New York City, where Mayor Bloomberg thought it was reasonable gun control to disarm cops? That`s how insane this has gotten. There`s been quite a debate at Virginia Tech, where lawfully possessed firearms and gun owners with lawfully procured government scrutinized concealed weapons permits are forbidden to use those concealed weapons permits on the Virginia Tech grounds.

Does anybody join me in realizing that 32 people were killed because the killer wasn`t stopped? I don`t want to come off like I know all the answers. But, again, the evidence is overwhelming. If a good guy with a gun can stop evil crime and tragedy so often, why can`t we apply that policy instead of Sarah Brady`s gun-free zone policy?

SMERCONISH: Hey, Nuge, thank you.

I`m joined now by Paul Helmke. He is the president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

Thank you, sir, for being here.

Respond to what you have just heard from Ted Nugent.

PAUL HELMKE, PRESIDENT, BRADY CAMPAIGN TO PREVENT GUN VIOLENCE: It`s obvious, after yesterday`s tragedy, that what we`re doing now in this country is not working. And there`s a lot of reasons it doesn`t work.

And maybe what Nuge is suggesting is something that we should debate in this country. Actually, when most academicians look at it, they conclude that homes that have a gun, communities that have -- I mean, homes that have more guns, communities that have more guns, states that have more guns, and countries that have more guns end up with more violence.

Part of the problem is, is these gun-free zones, they are not working either, because it`s so easy to walk out of that zone and pick up that .9- millimeter. And, now that we don`t have restrictions on the size of the clips that this individual can get, you can get the clip that is going to fire off those shots.

I don`t know how good of a shot Nuge is, but I know that, when I was a mayor, and I was dealing with my police department in Fort Wayne, Indiana, when someone got a jump on somebody, even if you`re a trained officer, it`s tough to respond quickly and wisely.

And you can be sitting in a classroom with 30 people, and, if they`re firing a semiautomatic, and you can get off 30 rounds in 30 seconds, somebody is going to get killed. I would like to stop those guns from getting into the hands of those people and into those schools and into those killing situations in the first place.

If we can prevent this from starting, then we don`t need to worry about who is going to be taking the last shot.

SMERCONISH: But, Paul, doesn`t -- doesn`t Nuge have a point when he says that one of the ironies here is that, indeed, this occurred in a gun- free zone? And doesn`t it raise the issue that these laws that we put on the books, that they affect those who are law-abiding; and the individual, the deranged individual who is out there, and is hell-bent on killing folks doesn`t care what the law is and somehow is going to get that weapon?

HELMKE: It`s -- when people want to break laws, they`re going to break laws. Most lawbreakers don`t break every law, because they know they are more likely to get caught. So, they follow the law in some things.

When we had laws that said you couldn`t sell clips with more than 10 rounds, people weren`t buying clips with more than 10 rounds very easily. This morning, I went on a web page and I found a clip with 33 rounds that I could buy for the gun that was used here for under $30.

That`s the sort of problems we`re having. We make it too easy to get this kind of weaponry into our communities. It`s great to talk about the hypothetical situation where Superman, Nuge, whoever -- that`s great -- responds to the guy that`s already standing in the doorway and already shooting.

But, in real life, what happens is, somebody loses that gun; somebody misuses that gun; somebody gets drunk; somebody gets angry; somebody makes a mistake. And you end up -- and you end up with people that are dead or injured.

SMERCONISH: Hey, Paul, thank you for being with us. We appreciate having both sides represented.

And we will be right back in just a moment.

HELMKE: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SMERCONISH: On my radio show this morning, I spoke with a woman whose son is third-generation alumni of Virginia Tech.

She said that her son loves Virginia Tech. And she was telling me what a lovely town Blacksburg, Virginia, is, and how the Virginia Tech campus is sprawling, bucolic, and, until yesterday morning, peaceful.

Virginia Tech has, until this moment, enjoyed a stellar reputation, polite, bright students, a well-credentialed faculty. She went on to say that, no matter what happens now, in our collective subconscious, the campus and the town will forever be associated with this awful massacre.

And that made me think of my sister-in-law, who also happens to live in a charming American town, Columbine, Colorado. To everyone watching at home, what is the first thing you think about when you hear the word Columbine? I thought so. That image is indelibly stamped own our nation`s brain.

Who knows when, if ever, it will be erased? It` same thing with Kent State, Ruby Ridge, Waco, and Oklahoma City. Will Blacksburg, Virginia, suffer the same fate, or will future graduates from Virginia Tech be able to step out from under the shadow of grief?

Man, I hope so. They weren`t responsible. Their reputations should not be besmirched. Nor should the town of Blacksburg have only a negative connotation.

And, so, I leave you tonight with the idea I expressed when we first began. We must always remember, one person did this, one disturbed individual, with his own destructive agenda. It doesn`t take a village to commit mass murder.

For Glenn Beck, I`m Michael Smerconish.

Good night.

END