Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Campus Massacre
Aired April 18, 2007 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Chilling images. Good morning, everyone. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Tony Harris in Atlanta.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you. I'm Heidi Collins on the Virginia Tech campus in Blacksburg, Virginia. Here's what's on the rundown for this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he opened up and said he had an imaginary girlfriend. He called her -- was it "jelly."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was like "jelly."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she called him "spanky."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: There is no other word but bazaar. The Virginia Tech shooter's roommates and Cho Seung-Hui's bizarre behavior. Extensive excerpts this hour coming in a CNN exclusive.
HARRIS: The words of Cho Seung-Hui. Writings that prompted warnings from his professors. The plays, graphic, sexual, morbid. We ask our guest about them.
COLLINS: Virginia Tech remembering the 32 students and professors who lost their lives in Cho's angry rampage. A campus mourns on Wednesday, April 18th, in the NEWSROOM.
HARRIS: So just moments from now, school officials are to hold a news conference. We have our cameras inside. And you will see it live right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
First, let's set the stage with what we know. Alarming descriptions now emerging of Cho Seung-Hui. Those who lived with him say he was sullen and menacing. And in the weeks leading to the attacks, they say his bizarre behavior became even more erratic. Other warning signs possibly in his words. Writings so dark and violent, some fellow students quit coming to class. His professor threatened to quit and the school did try to intervene.
COLLINS: More on that now, too, Tony.
Lucinda Roy is the head of the English department here at Virginia Tech. She says she was disturbed by Cho Seung-Hui's writing. She talked about it with CNN's John Roberts. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PROF. LUCINDA ROY, VIRGINIA TECH: I really felt very strongly that he was suicidal. That he was so depressed that he had a negativity about him. It was really like talking to a hole sometimes, as though the person wasn't really there. And there was such an absence in the room when he entered that everything emptied out and just seemed very dark. And so there were times when I thought he could probably do harm to himself because he was so depressed. Of course, we never imagine necessarily these kinds of things. The irony for me is, I had just come back from Sierra Leone not long ago and I'd gone to see if my students there had survived. And I found that some of them had not and some had. And I came back here to a safe space where I thought my students would be safe.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what you thought was a safe space. I read your op-ed in "The New York Times" today. You said when you heard 20 dead, you said the reporter must have been completely wrong. And you (INAUDIBLE).
ROY: I think everyone felt that. I mean you've been around here now. You see a campus that is reeling in many ways from the horror of this. But there's also a strength here.
ROBERTS: Let me ask you one quick question. Did anybody drop a ball with Cho Seung-Hui? Should there have been more intervention earlier on? Could this have been prevented?
ROY: I don't know if it could have been prevented, and nobody will ever know that. I know I'll think about myself and wonder, could I have done more. And I'm sure that everyone on this campus is thinking about that right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Still so much what if-ing going on right here at Virginia Tech, as you can imagine.
It is another solemn day on this campus and another day filled with so many questions. Let's get more information now from CNN's Brianna Keilar.
Brianna, good morning to you.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Heidi.
A number of questions we're hoping to get answers to. Among them, have police definitively linked Cho Seung-Hui to that first shooting at the dorm where two people were killed. You'll recall they have linked one of the weapons used at Norris Hall to that shooting, but they haven't definitively linked Cho. They say it's reasonable to assume, but they just don't have that evidence yet.
Also the why of this. We know so much about the who but we don't know that much about the why. As you've heard, the chair of the English department had warned university officials about some of Cho's writings. And we've been able to read two of the scripts that he wrote in a play writing class. And looking back, in hindsight, in consideration of Monday's events, it's clear these were really the writings of a deeply troubled person.
But officially, we don't know much about why. What was the motive here? All we have learned officially is that authorities characterize Cho as a loner and there isn't that much more, Heidi.
COLLINS: Brianna, what can you tell us about the latest security scare this morning? We had heard that it was a possible bomb threat. We saw the video of the police officers right here on campus again at a building close to Norris Hall. I mean, the thoughts that were running through some of the people's minds right here were more of panic again.
KEILAR: That's right. This definitely put students on edge. Some students telling CNN they were afraid, you know, something was happening all over again. But let me just tell you where we are.
We're are in front of -- well, we're actually in the drill field. And across the drill field, behind me, is Burruss Hall, where this took place. It's over right now. I should tell you that. A university employee told CNN that it was a bomb scare. But we've heard from university officials and they say that's not the case.
We understand that there was some sort of threat on university President Charles Steger. His offices are in this building behind me. And it is a short distance from Norris Hall. So we saw Virginia Tech police, as well as state police, responding to this with flack jackets, with automatic rifles, taking all precautions.
But they did determine that threat was unfounded. We're hoping to learn some more details about that coming up here in this press conference.
Heidi.
COLLINS: Quickly, Brianna, on that note, we've been hearing a little bit here about the professors and getting into their offices and thinking about, you know, this is my life's work that I have inside my office. I imagine that was some of the concern surrounding the president's office as well. Do we know if, in fact, they're able to get in and gather up those things that they find so vitally important to them?
KEILAR: You know, I'm not sure about that right now. I'm not sure if they've been allowed back in the building at this point. So I can't really answer that.
But I have had a chance -- you know, one of the interesting things about where this all took place was, it's right here in Burruss Hall. And right in front of Burruss Hall is where this makeshift memorial has sprung up. So police had told anyone who was standing around, and of course that includes students who are visiting these makeshift memorials, leaving flowers, leaving candles, signing this memorial, telling them to get back.
So they're here beginning this grieving process and then there's another scare. You can imagine they're dealing with shock, the sadness is beginning to set in, and then now they're on edge again. And that's very difficult.
COLLINS: Yes, no question about that. All right. Brianna Keilar, thanks so much for that.
Tony, back out to you.
HARRIS: Thank you.
We are learning more about the Virginia Tech shooter, Cho Seung- Hui. Should someone have seen his murderous rage coming? Joining me now from Houston, former FBI Special Agent In Charge Don Clark.
Don, great to talk to you again.
DON CLARK, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: Good to be here, Tony.
HARRIS: With what we know -- let me say this correctly, with what we know campus officials knew about this young man, should more have been done?
CLARK: Tony, that is a very, very complex topic.
HARRIS: OK.
CLARK: And on the surface . . .
HARRIS: Well, let's take -- take your time and let's break it down.
CLARK: OK. On the surface, we would all like to say, well, look somebody knew. Why wasn't something done? Then the question is, what mechanisms are in place for law enforcement and other aspects of the community to deal with these type of issues? I think, Tony, what we're looking at here is we're probably going to look at kind of re- defining what law enforcement can do by laws and rules and regulations to be able to prevent these types of things.
HARRIS: So you're suggesting moving forward we may craft new guidelines, new rules, to help intervene in cases like this sooner? When the warning signs are clear.
CLARK: I absolutely, Tony, think we've got to go in that direction. Let's go back to 9/11 if we will. What have we done since then? We have put in a lot of different rules, some controversial or not, but that not withstanding, to try and prevent terrorist attacks from occurring.
HARRIS: Yes.
CLARK: Why can't we redefine our law enforcement to a point that we don't impede on civil liberties, but yet law enforcement can lawfully act on situations like this where people are coming (ph) forward (ph).
HARRIS: Because we're talking about -- how about this. Because we're talking about a campus that was trying to balance student rights with a legitimate law enforcement function here. They had no specific threats, so law enforcement couldn't act.
CLARK: That's exactly right. And listen. I understand, too, and some of the policies at the campuses today is that when a student reports to campus, I understand that in many cases the student has to give the university permission to even provide their grades to their parents who are paying the freight, you know. So when you look at that type of restriction as to who gets information and where you pass it to, I think that has to be revisited and see at what level do we get to a point of student behavior that somebody can take some legal and lawful action.
HARRIS: Exactly. How about this, Don? How about this? One stalking episode where police respond, a second stalking episode when police respond. Hello, the threshold has been crossed. It has been breached. It's time to do something with this kid. Perhaps more than just taking him to counseling.
CLARK: I think so. But I think before this happened at Virginia Tech, if you had tried to take this and tried to talk to a prosecutor about what do I do with this, the question would be, OK, where's the evidence, where's your case, you know? Somebody says they were stalking. What did they do? These would be the kinds of questions that law enforcement would have to feel.
And the prosecutors are going by the law. And I'm not condemning them because they're right in what they're doing. But I am saying that we're got to revisit this now. You know, we're way into the 21st century right now and we've got to take and redefine some of these things if we want to prevent these types of attacks.
HARRIS: Well, how about this. If you are the victim of a stalking episode, what are your rights here? Do you then go to police and then do you have a mechanism where you can get police to hold this suspect so that police then can do a thorough debrief? Perhaps some kind of a psychological examination.
CLARK: Yes. You know, Tony, I think you're right there. That those opportunities exist right now. But I think where most citizens don't realize, too, is that they've got to be pretty specific when they go to law enforcement. Law enforcement resources are strained and stretched today with all of the things that are going on. But I think we've got to bring it back into focus on of real criminal problems that's taken place from people, such as stalkers and people that are doing what we might would consider a minor crime, but it grows into and escalates into what we just saw a couple days ago.
HARRIS: This young person, his writings described as maccabe (ph), refer to himself as "question mark." Based on our conversation yesterday and the kind of profiling that you've been privy to, these details confirm kind of your worst thoughts?
CLARK: Absolutely. You know, when I even heard, Tony, that the young man rarely took off his sunglasses in the classroom, you know, not wanting to -- for the world to really see who he is. And the "question mark." I mean, these are very, very serious signs. And we're going to find out a lot more from the students because at the beginning probably no one thought, you know, they probably just said he's kind of weird, you know. He's kind of weird. Well, that's beyond kind of weird, you know. That's a problem. That's a sickness, an issue there that needs to be dealt with. I'm not certain that law enforcement -- well, in fact, I am certain that law enforcement is not the component to deal with that. But, when it crosses that line ever so slightly into being in a position that it may cause pain and problem and be a criminal act, then I think law enforcement has to have an avenue to do something.
HARRIS: And finally, because we have to go in just a second, we've got some breaking news from the Supreme Court (ph) I want to get to.
Moving forward, you believe that we will have to revisit rules and regulations and maybe rules of engagement in this area with police departments?
CLARK: I firmly believe that we have to redefine law enforcement in a sense of our laws and Constitution so that we can handle modern day crimes such as today. We're no longer living in the early 1900s and we've got to face these type of issues and law enforcement is going to have to be a component in it.
HARRIS: Don Clark, we appreciate your time. Thank you very much for the last couple of days and your insights.
Heidi, back to you in Blacksburg.
COLLINS: That's right, Tony. We have been waiting for this news conference that we want to get directly to now at this point. Let's go ahead and listen in now with the very latest.
LARRY HINCKER, ASSOCIATE VICE PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY RELATIONS: The spring football game that normally attracts 30 to 35,000 people and, for obvious reasons, the spring football game has been canceled.
I've also been asked when President Steger will meet with parents of the student victims and he is -- he either has done that or is doing that now.
I've also been asked about where you can park on campus. You are free to move your large vehicles across the way in the large parking lot. I'm trying to determine whether or not we'll be able to park around the drill field. Several have been asking me -- have asked me about that.
Before we go into the Q&A, I'd like to mention that I have people with me. Chief Flinchum will deliver a prepared statement. I also have associate vice president of student affairs, Ed Spencer. There may be some questions concerning the university disciplinary system. I have Ed on hand to answer your questions. Also again, Superintendent Flaherty of the state police. And then finally Dr. Chris Flynn, who is the director of the Cook Counseling Center. And there may be some concerns there or some questions there with respect to the counseling of students.
So I would like to ask Chief Flinchum to bring you up to speed on a couple of issues that we've been asked about. And then after that we'll open the floor for questions.
CHIEF WENDELL FLINCHUM, VIRGINIA TECH POLICE: First of all, I would like to address the incident that happened this morning at Burruss Hall.
At 7:53 this morning, the university operator received a threat against President Steger. Officers responded to his office in Burruss Hall to make him aware of this potential threat. Police presence in and around Burruss Hall was increased which led to many roomers and false assumptions about what was happening.
That led to an unwarranted report of a suspicious person within the hall. Officers immediately responded and entered the building. The building was cleared and the report of a suspicious person was unfounded.
These kind of reports are not uncommon in the wake of what has taken place in the last 48 hours on our campus. And which is one reason we are maintaining a high police visibility throughout the university.
I would like next to address the contact our department has had with the Norris Hall gunman Cho Seung-Hui.
Once his identification was confirmed, I was able to review our records and determine that we did have contact with Cho in the fall of 2005. In November of 2005, Cho had made contact, through phone calls and in person, with a female student. The student notified the Virginia Tech Police Department and officers responded.
The student declined to press charges and referred to Cho's contact with her as annoying. However, the investigating officer referred Cho to the university disciplinary system, which is the Office of Judicial Affairs. The outcome of that referral is handled within the university and is outside the scope of the police department.
In December of 2005, Cho instant messaged a second female student. Again, no threat was made against that student. However, she made a complaint to the Virginia Tech Police Department and asked that Cho have no further contact with her. Officers followed up the next morning and spoke with Cho concerning this matter.
Later that day, our department received a call from an acquaintance of Cho's who was concerned that Cho might be suicidal. Officers again met with Cho and talked with him at length. Out of concern for Cho, officers asked him to speak to a counselor. He went voluntarily to the police department. Based on that interaction with the counselor, an temporary detention order was obtained and Cho was taken to a mental health facility.
It was also in the fall of 2005 that the chair of the English Department, Dr. Lucinda Roy, informally shared her concerns regarding Cho and his course writing assignments. No official report was filed. These course assignments were for a creative writing course and the students were encouraged to be imaginative and artistic.
The writings did not express any threatening intentions or elude to any criminal activity. No criminal violation had taken place. Dr. Roy chose to reach out to this student out of concern for him and his mental well-being.
Since those contacts in November and December of 2005, more than a year ago, I am not aware of any additional incidents or reports made to our department.
COL. W STEVEN FLAHERTY, VIRGINIA STATE POLICE SUPERINTENDENT: Good morning.
I have just a couple of things that I wanted to share with you regarding the Norris Hall investigation. We are wrapping up the crime scene part of our investigation. And maybe as early as today, and I haven't talked with our folks now for a little while, it maybe even has taken place, that we'll transfer Norris Hall back to Virginia Tech and they will go about the clean-up process and whatnot to restore that facility.
We are also in the process of pouring over the evidence we've collected at this point and in seeing where we need to go from here. We're beginning to collect various pieces of documentary evidence. There are some medical records probably that we would pursue and things of this nature.
But our investigation now will become more of an evaluation of what we have and seeking to find what direction we need to go in, in order to determine just who was involved in both of these instances. I think I've shared with you earlier that, you know, we haven't been able to make the definite connection and put Cho at the scene at AJW. While we know he's the shooter at Norris Hall. So we'll be making our way toward making those connections and following those leads as we move along.
We also have been collecting identity information to help with the identification of the victims and trying to speed that process along and make it available to the medical examiner so that we can help their staff that really has been working around the clock to expedite these identifications. Hopefully we'll be able to share the results of all those efforts with you before too much longer.
FLINCHUM: I was asked to clarify that Mr. Cho was evaluated by the local mental health agency here called Access. He was not evaluated by Cook Counsel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sorry. Can you speak up, please.
FLINCHUM: I was asked to clarify that Mr. Cho was evaluated in the incident I talked about previously by the local mental health agency, which we refer to as Access, and he was not evaluated by Cook Counsel.
QUESTION: How long was he in (INAUDIBLE).
FLINCHUM: That's information that I would not have.
QUESTION: What did they determine about the state of his mental health?
FLINCHUM: Again, that is information I would not know.
QUESTION: Can somebody from the university tell us what the outcome was of the university affairs hearing or whatever that process is?
ED SPENCER, ASSOCIATE VICE PRESIDENT OF STUDENT AFFAIRS: It is not unusual for, when someone files a complaint, a concern, to then not follow through and actually have a hearing and ask that the charges be completed. I can't comment on whether or not he had any kind of disciplinary record because that is protected, as most of you know, by the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act. And even upon death, that record is still protected and, as I understand it from our legal counsel, even the parents cannot reveal or have that information shared. It's protected, confidential information under FERPA.
QUESTION: Looking back, sir, and this question to the chief as well, could the university, should the university have done more to help Cho, to restrain Cho and to protect the university community?
HINCKER: I would like to ask the head of the Cook Counseling Center to address some of the ways that the university - I'd like to ask Dr. Flynn to address how some of the ways that the university handles students with issues such as this.
QUESTION: Excuse me. In addition to that general explanation, could we also get an answer to the question that I posed about whether the university could or should have helped Cho more, restrain Cho, and protect the university?
DR. CHRIS FLYNN, DIRECTOR, COOK COUNSELING CENTER: Let me say generally that students who have mental health concerns often are referred to the Cook Counseling Center. We are the local -- the university counseling center. We're here to help any student who may be in distress.
Clearly mental health professionals have a professional duty to protect their clients and to protect the general public. If we felt, or if any counselor felt in the community or otherwise, that a client represented a danger to self or others, we have a duty to warn. That's why we have involuntary commitment procedures available to us, that is why students can be hospitalized voluntarily. Once they are in the hospital, they are treated with medication. And on release, they are given a plan or a protocol to follow.
That issue does not ever go away. We are always prepared to protect students and the larger community and will everything in our power. We are ethically and legally required to do everything in our power to protect students and the general community. So we can't speak about a specific student, but if a danger was known to a mental health professional, they have a duty to act. And they have a responsibility to act and they will act.
HINCKER: I'll deal with the first part of the question. You're asking us to make value judgments about things that some of us have a little bit of information about. There's, obviously, a whole lot more information back here. As you heard yesterday from Governor Kaine, there will be an independent investigation on all of the events here. And I think that the value judgment for that kind of question is going to have to wait until that investigation is completed.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) mental health facility. Was he checked in for several days? Do you have any idea how long he stayed there? What kind of treatment he received?
HINCKER: Again, I believe that information is protected under the FERPA. Is that correct?
FLINCHUM: That's not information that would be given back to our department.
QUESTION: Which mental health (INAUDIBLE)?
FLINCHUM: Where he was taken to? To my knowledge, I'm not positive, I think it was a place called St. Albans, which is outside of Radford, Virginia.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE).
FLINCHUM: I believe he was taken to St. Albans, which is outside of Radford, Virginia.
QUESTION: Voluntarily or involuntarily?
FLINCHUM: According to our records, a temporary detention order was obtained. That could be either voluntarily or involuntarily.
QUESTION: Is that a Baker Act?
FLINCHUM: I'm not sure.
QUESTION: When was that, sir, the exact date, please?
FLINCHUM: I'm sorry.
QUESTION: When was the exact date of when he was put in the mental health facility?
FLINCHUM: He was transported on December 13, 2005.
QUESTION: Can you tell us more about . . .
QUESTION: That facility is not (INAUDIBLE) to the school, is it?
FLINCHUM: I'm sorry.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) to the school? That facility is next (ph) to the school?
FLINCHUM: No, it is not.
QUESTION: Were either of the two women who were (INAUDIBLE) and blamed (ph) . . .
HINCKER: I got another -- let's take this question back here. The question was, he was evaluated by Access, which is an independent mental health agency here in the New River Valley (ph). They're a non affiliated.
FLINCHUM: They're not connected to the university.
QUESTION: So they're not evaluated by the school's counselor (ph)?
FLINCHUM: I'm only speaking to this one specific incident. I don't know if he was evaluated by the university or not.
QUESTION: So how long was he in St. Albans?
FLINCHUM: I do not know.
QUESTION: Mr. Flinchum, were either of the two women who filed complaints targeted?
FLINCHUM: Neither one of them are among the victims.
QUESTION: Chief, about these (INAUDIBLE) considered initially right after the first shooting. There's now an affidavit being reported on police have some (INAUDIBLE) the boyfriend of one of the first victims (INAUDIBLE). Can you tell us about your contact with Mr. Thornhill (ph). The information that led you to him, the affidavit says, it was information that he had weapons he had just (INAUDIBLE). Can you give us any more detail about that lead, what you were doing in those moments and the contact with Mr. Thornhill.
FLINCHUM: Well, again, as I stated earlier, the information we were getting initially on the scene at the West AJ incident led us to the persons you spoke. Based on that information, we were following up and we were trying to explore all avenues to determine exactly what had happened.
QUESTION: Has anybody been able to discover any kind of nexus between Cho and (INAUDIBLE) or was she simply a random target that he had been stalking there (ph)? What can you say about (INAUDIBLE)?
FLINCHUM: The investigation we're doing in conjunction with the state police, we're trying to determine if there is a connection or if there is not a connection. At this time, we do not know yet.
QUESTION: Can you tell us more about the note?
QUESTION: Do you still (INAUDIBLE) from the rambling note (INAUDIBLE)?
FLINCHUM: (INAUDIBLE).
QUESTION: Are you still holding (INAUDIBLE) . . .
FLINCHUM: I still got a question (ph).
FLAHERTY: I really don't have specifics. I mean that's part of the evidence that we've collected. There were some writings from his room that we have in hand that we have specialists that are reviewing to see if it gives us any insight and it gives us any direction as far as the case is concerned. So that's part of the document poring over that we're doing at this point in time.
QUESTION: So there's nothing further about the threats or the motives and (ph) what we're seeing in that?
FLAHERTY: Not that I'm aware of at this time. Again, it's quite a lot of material that we're going through.
QUESTION: Is there a reference to suicide?
FLAHERTY: I don't know of one. I haven't seen the documents personally.
HINCKER: What was the question over here?
QUESTION: Is Thornhill still being held?
FLINCHUM: He was never held. So, no, he is not being held.
QUESTION: Can you tell us more about the information that led you to him? Was it information from a roommate of Miss Hillshire's (ph) or something that he had weapons, that he had guns (INAUDIBLE)? What led you to him?
FLINCHUM: It was information we developed from witnesses on the scene. Again, I haven't read all the initial reports yet, but it was information that the officers obtained from the initial speaking with witnesses and then more information was developed with a follow-up investigation.
QUESTION: Can you tell us any more about what he told you?
FLINCHUM: Maybe I can speak to that later in the press conference. I don't want to miss speak and tell you something that is inaccurate. I'll have to review those reports.
QUESTION: Is Thornhill still a person of interest?
FLINCHUM: A person of interest to me is someone who is more than a witness and less than a suspect. At this time he is not a person of interest.
HINCKER: The person right here.
FLINCHUM: But we do believe, you know, he may be -- have some information that will assist us in this investigation.
HINCKER: Question, sir. Sir, your question here.
QUESTION: Can you tell us anything about the (INAUDIBLE) that you referred to that prompted those two students (INAUDIBLE)?
FLINCHUM: I don't have copies of those.
QUESTION: Do you know (INAUDIBLE)?
FLINCHUM: I'm sorry. I didn't hear.
QUESTION: Have your (INAUDIBLE) content?
FLINCHUM: Again, I haven't read them, so I can't characterize.
HINCKER: Mr. Blusher (ph).
QUESTION: You know it seems like Cho was (INAUDIBLE) and that that were in December of 2005 and then just fallen off the map (ph). What happened between now and then? Are there any dealings with him? Does the university know what happened to the (INAUDIBLE)?
FLINCHUM: I can only speak to my department. We have -- we did not have any contact with him after December of 2005 that I'm aware of at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go through the statement timeline.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first one was in November 2005. The second one was December of 2005. And the commitment occurred on the same day, in December.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Concerns about mental health behavior on campus have been documented extensively over the past several years. We certainly have seen a significant number of students coming on campus. There is an association of university and college counseling center directors. We meet yearly to discuss these issues, so we've discussed the issue of stalking behavior, how that gets interpreted and how you handle it.
We certainly are always sensitive to the issue of potential violence. It is very difficult to predict when -- what someone perceives as stalking is stalking, and then how it might translate into violence later.
In general that's a very difficult thing to predict. Clearly if anyone had any warning about a violent incident people would have stepped in and acted. This university is extremely proactive about meeting and discussing students of concern. Tom Brown, the dean of students, and I met with an English faculty last fall and went over procedures for dealing with students in distress. That handbook is published and available on the Web site. We have information on our Web site for faculty and staff on how to deal with students who may be distressed or whom they might be concerned. We did not discuss particular students at that meeting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me real quickly -- we had one question about why ACCESS. Hold on to that for a second. The Web site, if you want to see that set of protocols, www.dos -- which dean of students -- .vt.edu/dosresources.
Now question was, why ACCESS and not Cook Counseling Center. Was that correct?
QUESTION: Can I ask why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We normally go through ACCESS because they have the power to commit people if they need to be committed.
QUESTION: Which was my question. What powers is the university, Cook Counseling system have, to intervene in cases like this at this time. (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have the same powers any mental health professional. If we know that someone is of concern to us. We can step in, we can notify authorities. We can ask them to intervene. We have a very close working relationship with Chief Flinchum. He and his staff have been extraordinarily cooperative with us. The way that that the stay law works in Virginia is that involuntary commitments in most voluntary commitments or hospitalization to state facilities are accessed -- that's where the term comes from -- through ACCESS, which is a state-mandated agency that handles mental health emergencies, so they go to the magistrate and the magistrate makes a decision whether or not to issue a temporary detaining order. Because ACCESS has those relationships with the magistrates, that is why they step in and we would contact them in an emergency to have them assist us with a hospitalization, should that be required.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had a question back here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe it was a voluntary commitment, but I'm not positive on that note. That's one thing we're looking into in our investigation.
QUESTION: Chief, did the suspect have a phrase "ismalax" (ph) on his arm? (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not aware. I haven't gone back to confirm whether that's true or not. So at this point in time, I don't know.
In fact, if I could speak to the issue about the detention order. There's no record at the time that this firearm check was done, there is no record in the mental health file that we checked saying that he had anything to prohibit him from purchasing a gun. QUESTION: For Dr. Kobilinsky Flynn (ph), the question, a lot of kids on campus, have misidentified (INAUDIBLE). How do you determine when somebody might be normally abnormal and abnormal?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As you all probably know the issue of you know, Virginia Tech is a large university. We have 26,000 students. In the developmental growth of students, their early -- or adulthood is a time in which emotional disturbances may become more salient or become more expressed. So for example, the rate of schizophrenia in the general population is one percent. The rate of bipolar disorder is somewhat larger, maybe 1 percent to 2 percent. We know a significant number of students struggle with depression and anxiety, so there are lots of issues that are present on a college campus, and we don't even need to talk about the rate of attention deficit disorder, or other significant problems that may affect a student's academic performance.
So all of those issues are present. The extent to which we can make a judgment about whether someone represents a danger or not is a separate issue. We see, Cook Counseling Center, and most counseling centers see between 7 percent to 30 percent of a student population in a given year. So each year we see over 2,000 students. We hospitalize a small, small minority of them, certainly less than 1 percent. We're down in the, you know, decimal figures at this point. So you know, the problems that affect Cook Counseling Center or that we deal with on Virginia Tech's campus are also being dealt with across the United States and other counseling centers as well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got a question over here, then here in the front.
Back in the back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not aware of any connection with any of the victims at this point in time. That is part of the focus of what we're doing right now, is trying to determine what it was that made Norris Hall a place of interest on Monday morning, what it was that made A.J.W. a point of interest to whomever committed that event on Monday morning.
I'm sorry.
QUESTION: He has no connection to Emily...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know who Emily is.
QUESTION: The first victim.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no connection that we're aware of at this particular point in time. There's none that we know of at this particular point in time. That's not to say that today, tomorrow or weeks ahead we finally determine that there was some sort of connection, formal or informal.
QUESTION: Real or imagined.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But we're -- that's part of our process right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The question over here, then up front, and then someone in the back there -- yes, ma'am?
QUESTION: It was reported that there were medications found in his room or backpack. Is there any truth to that? Can you say what it was?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were no medications found in his room, period.
QUESTION: In a backpack?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not aware of whether there was a back pack found or not, but there were no medications found in his room.
QUESTION: Were either of the stalking victims from 2005 in the vicinity of the shootings. You said that neither of them were victims. Were they in the vicinity? There were two students from Cho's high school who were murdered in Norris Hall. Is there a possibility that he talked to them because he knew them from high school?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, we're not aware at this time of any connection. We are taking the list and trying to determine if there is any one there at Norris Hall that had a connection with Mr. Cho.
QUESTION: Were the stalking victims from 2005, were any in the vicinity of the shootings?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know. We don't have any information that they were, or that they were not at this particular point in time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do not know at this point. That is part of our investigation to determine that.
Back in the back.
QUESTION: Where was Cho between the shootings? (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's still part of the investigation we're trying to determine. We would like to know that also.
QUESTION: What's the delay establishing who committed the first shootings? After several days, witnesses and so on, what's the status?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just simply haven't been able to connect him. We don't have any hard evidence that Cho was in the vicinity. He very well may have been but we don't have any hard evidence at this particular point in time.
QUESTIONER: Do the ballistics match at all?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ye, yes, ballistics match. One of the weapons found at Norris Hall is the weapon that was used in the event at A.J.W., but we cannot -- we certainly can make that presumption, all of us are making that reasonable leap but we don't have hard evidence at this particular point in time to put him there.
QUESTIONER: Is that a key card entry?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For which one?
QUESTIONER: For A.J.W.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
QUESTIONER: Is it always on 24 hours, or is it on just in the a.m. or ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, all of our residence halls are on electronic access control. And the time of locking is 10:00 p.m. at night and it unlocks at 10:00 a.m. the next morning.
QUESTIONER: Let me ask you this (INAUDIBLE). I know what it feels like second guessing but there has to be a lot of soul searching going on people (INAUDIBLE). I mean, anybody could -- is that something that a lot of people are thinking about?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sure a lot of people are thinking about that. Again, though, you're getting back to thinking about it, and then what should or could, would have been done I think is something that's going to have to come through the investigation.
We had a question over here in the blue hat.
QUESTIONER: (INAUDIBLE). You have any idea how long he was there? (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought that we just said that we didn't know that.
QUESTIONER: Is that report accurate, that he went back to his dorm?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not know. (INAUDIBLE). Many interviews have been performed by police officers all around campus.
QUESTIONER: I want to follow up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me finish. That information could be true. It may not be true. The colonel and I have not seen every interview or every report that's been written on this case so far. One follow-up on that.
QUESTIONER: Have you talked to his roommates?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The short answer is yes. But your first question when you speak of reports, reports to whom and from whom? I mean, that's --
QUESTIONER: Did the roommates tell authorities (INAUDIBLE) what can you tell us?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wasn't privy to those interviews and haven't discussed the case that finely at this particular point in time. So I really don't know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back in the back. There was a question back there in the back, ma'am, I know you've had your hand up.
QUESTIONER: I wanted to know when Cho first came on your radar with the University police, what day in November 2005 (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe it was November 27th.
QUESTIONER: And at the time, sir, did you speak with him (INAUDIBLE)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We spoke to him in every incident.
QUESTIONER: Do you characterize this residence (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again I have not read them. I'm not saying there were threats. I'm saying they were annoying. That's the way the victims characterized them, as annoying messages.
QUESTIONER: Given all of the contacts that the university had with this young man, police had, what is the threshold for kicking a student out of the school, at what point did you ever think about it? Was it considered?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll need to let Dr. Spencer (ph) speak to that question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In order for us to suspend someone from the university, we have essentially two ways that would happen. One is our academic honor system where someone is found responsible for violating academic policies, cheating, plagiarism, that kind of thing.
The separate system, the other way is through the student judicial system. Which -- there are a set of university policies for student life. One of which, for instance, would be abusive conduct. So someone would have to be found responsible parallel to being found guilty in the courts, for violating that policy, in order to be suspended, to be considered for suspension from the university.
You have to have a finding of responsibility first. And of course on the front end you have to have someone who is willing to refer the case, you know, come forward with it.
QUESTIONER: Is there any evaluation process ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want to complete this press conference?
There are no cameras in the dorms. I think the superintendent would like to conclude the press conference. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) we've got the next press briefing at 4:00, guys, back in the studio, OK? Thank you, guys, appreciate it.
COLLINS: All right, so, quite a bit of information, actually, coming out of this latest news conference that's just happened over at the Alumni Center. We heard from several people, we got quite a bit more information to share with you.
In case you may have missed some of it, there had been contact between Cho and the authorities dating as far back as 2005. Quickly I want to run through that for you. Apparently the police were contacted after some phone calls were made to a female student. We have heard a little about this, and the possible stalking that may have been going on. There were no charges, however.
And then again, December of 2005, more e-mails to another student. She reported him to the Virginia Tech Police Department and characterized those e-mails as just annoying. Again, no charges were filed. But of course, at least Virginia Tech police followed up with him and watched the situation.
They also learned about that same time that he was possibly suicidal. That information coming to them, apparently, from his roommates. Followed the next morning, in fact, after this information came to Virginia Tech police, enough to have the local mental health agency contacted. That agency called Access, was not Cook County, in other words, not an actual hospital facility but the local mental health agency where we know that he had some lengthy conversations with them about what he was feeling.
Then we hear from Lucinda Roy (ph), you're familiar with this story, one of the professors who very informally shared her concerns about his writings that we have seen so much about, on the air. Nothing formal again.
Then, perhaps the most interesting detail in all of this, for more than a year, police did not hear of another report or any more trouble with Cho. So that is where all of that, the latest by way of contact with these police departments, both Virginia Tech and the local Blacksburg community police here trying to share the information as they went back and checked carefully through their records about their contact with Cho.
Also I want to share this information with you. A lot of people really wondering about Cho's family and where they are and if they are in contact with anyone. We would imagine of course with police. But I want to get this out to you from the Korean-American coalition of Washington. They are saying that the family has actually been in contact with several members in the community, not directly, I believe that there are some issues with language.
So, they are not making a formal statement yet. They are just apparently, "trying to cope." And it is possible that the sister of the -- of Cho, Sun-cho (ph), may have some type of statement today. Of course we will be watching for that. And again, logical person for that, too, to come from because of these language issues.
The family still is in the Washington area. We are learning according to the coalition here, and so far none of the people have spoken to the family or willing to say anything of course on camera. But of course, we'll watch that situation for you.
And at this time we also know that President Bush is commenting about this situation. In fact, at a very poignant place, the National Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C. He made some comments we'll listen to here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We meet at a time of sorrow for our nation. Our flags fly at half-mast in memory of 32 souls whose lives were taken at Virginia Tech on Monday morning. That day we saw horror, we also saw quiet acts of courage. We saw this courage in a teacher named Liviu Librescu. The gunman -- when the gunman said to enter his class, this brave professor blocked the door with his body while his students fled to safety.
On the day of remembrance, this Holocaust survivor gave his own life so that others may live. And this morning, we honor his memory and we take strength from his example.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: And you know Tony, as I listen to those words and we continue to hear more stories, particularly about some of the professors trying desperately to protect their students, it does remind me of Columbine and some of the stories that I heard in covering that, about the same situation, just desperately trying to keep their students, keep their kids safe. And Librescu was -- this was one of those people.
HARRIS: Sure, absolutely. Heidi, we're going to break your heart here in a moment and the hearts of everyone watching because we are getting more of the names of the victims and I'll read those names to you and a bit of their stories in just a moment.
But right now let's get to Jeanne Meserve. She is in Blacksburg, Virginia. But she is on the phone with us right now. And Jeanne, I understand that you have information on the purchase of the second gun found with the shooter Cho Seung-Hui.
VOICE OF JEANNE MESERVE, REPORTER: Right, that's the .22 caliber Walther. Two government sources have told me that Cho bought this gun just three days before the shootings here on campus. They were bought on Friday the 13th. Of course, we'd already reported that the Glock .9 millimeter pistol had been bought 37 days ago, that he paid about $571 for that with a credit card. And that the owner of the gun shop in Roanoke where he bought that called it a totally unremarkable purchase.
This purchase on Friday the 13th I am told by my government sources was made in the state of Virginia, but we have no specifics beyond that. Back to you.
HARRIS: OK, Jeanne and just a reminder for everyone watching the screen right now, that those are just pictures of the guns being discussed, and not the actual weapons connected to this massacre at Virginia Tech.
And right now, as promised, let me read you a list of the people confirmed killed in Monday's shooting at Virginia Tech. Ryan Clark. A story we've told here in the CNN NEWSROOM, a senior from Martinez, Georgia and a resident assistant at the dormitory where the first shooting occurred. Emily Jane Hilscher (ph), a student majoring in animal and poultry sciences, a resident of the dormitory. Ross Alameddine, a student from Sagas (ph), Massachusetts. Jamie Bishop (ph), German instructor. Brian Blum (ph), 25-years-old, a graduate student who attended high school in Jefferson County, Kentucky.
Austin Cloyd, an international studies student, originally from Champaign, Illinois. Family moved to Blacksburg in 2005. Joslin Couter Nowak (ph), a French instructor originally from Nova Scotia. Her husband, a professor, and head of the department of horticulture at Virginia Tech. Daniel Alejandro Perez Cueva of Woodbridge, Virginia. Kevin Granada, a professor of engineering. Katelynn Hammaren (ph), 19, a student from West Town, New York. Jeremy Herbstret (ph), a graduate student who received two bachelor degrees from Penn State. Jared Lane, a senior civil engineering student from Narrows, Virginia. Matthew La Porte, a student from Dumont, New Jersey.
Liviu Librescu, professor of engineering science and mechanics, a Holocaust survivor. Librescu died on Holocaust Remembrance Day while protecting his students from the gunman. His son shared that with CNN. G.B. Loganathan, a professor of civil and environmental engineering. Daniel O'Niel(ph), a student from Lincoln, Rhode Island. Juan Ramon Ortiz, 26, a graduate student from Puerto Rico. And according to a Puerto Rican newspaper, the "Premiera Aura," he was scheduled to graduate with a masters in civil engineering in December. He recently married, Lisell Vega who is a Virginia Tech student. She was not hurt in the shooting. Manal Hancall (ph), a freshman student, building science major from Mumbai, India.
Erin Peterson, a student from Centreville, Virginia. Grafton Peterson told CNN that he lost spoke with his daughter during a visit to the campus on Sunday. And said the 18-year-old died while in her French class. The "Roanoke Times" says she graduated from West Field High School in Centreville, Virginia. That is the same school that the shooter attended. Michael Pohle (ph), Flemington, New Jersey. Mary Ried, a student born in South Korea, grew up in Virginia. Reema Joseph Samaha, a student from Centreville, Virginia, a first year student at Virginia Tech. Samaha also graduated from West Field High where Cho attended.
And finally, name 21, Maxine Turner (ph), a senior student, chemical engineering was the major, from Vienna, Virginia. The names of more of the victims from Monday's massacre. Heidi, back to you in Blacksburg.
COLLINS: To hear all those names, Tony, it's very upsetting, that's true. Virginia Tech student newspaper, the "Collegiate Times" has been very closely following the developments as you can imagine here. The paper's banner headline, "Heartache, 32 Fallen."
Taylor Rees Shapiro is a staff writer for the paper and he joins us now with more information on how all of this has gone. You have been telling me during the break here that you really had an opportunity, because you are a peer, because you too, are part of this environment, part of this community at Virginia Tech, to really talk to the students and talk to some of the victims' friends and some of the family members.
Tell me what has been the most difficult thing for you as part of this community to write about.
TAYLOR REES SHAPIRO, STAFF WRITER, COLLEGIATE TIMES: Just as a member of the community, I am one of the students (INAUDIBLE), half of me is saying you know, wow, this is unbelievable. It's almost -- it's really hard to digest, 33 people. The way I thought about it was, it would be as if the entire floor of my dorm would have been killed in the massacre which brought more of a realistic approach for my own perspective.
Then half of me says I wonder if these kids are ever going to know more about the story because everybody is interested. This is our hometown. This is our pride and joy is Virginia Tech. And so I've got to do everything I can and the entire staff at "Collegiate Times" is doing everything they can to make sure that we bring the most up-to-date news from the student's perspective.
COLLINS: From the events on Monday that happened when everyone, I mean, you could see it on their faces of course, I'm sure you were one of them, was just shocked and drawn and in total disbelief. What has happened in the last two days? How are students --
SHAPIRO: I feel a lot of the students as the days go on, the first day, not a lot of people left but more people are definitely leaving today. More people are calling home, more and more often as the emotions begin to set in. It's everything is developed just almost too quickly for all of us to comprehend.
And after all of it, we're all reading these newspapers, we're all reading the Internet, we all have our TVs on all night long until we go to bed. And it's slowly but surely beginning to affect us to the point where it's everybody is doing the best they can to cope with it, in their own ways, you know, by hanging out with friends off campus, by -- some go home to their parents. Others just want to stay here. Others are lighting candles every single day and writing on these messages on these boards on all the different locations.
COLLINS: I imagine it's incredibly difficult to sleep. You mentioned the TVs being on for such a long period of time during the day. What have you, Taylor, been able to find out about Cho, about the experiences that your fellow classmates had on Monday?
SHAPIRO: I was the first to talk to Stephanie Derry (ph), and she was a student in a play writing class this semester, in fact, she had had classes with him just last Friday. And she discussed with me the plays he had been writing. And as everybody knows, one of them was about a step-son and a father who he planned to kill and he apparently thrown chain saws and hammers at the father. And later, eventually suffocated him with a rice krispie treat in a very violent manner.
And she noted just how unbelievably -- it was too surreal, too unrealistic, too fictional to even begin to think that somebody could be capable of this. And that's why she mentioned that we would just joke around about it in class because that's all we could do. We had to laugh and shrug it off. It was just too bizarre.
COLLINS: Now clear this up for me, is it true then that this is the class that he was, Cho, was removed from because of those writings and then taught one on one with Lucinda Roy (ph)?
SHAPIRO: I've heard a lot of different stories. The story I got was that Ed Falco (ph) taught a play writing class this semester and that's the class he was in most recently with Stephanie Derry (ph) and a few other students.
COLLINS: You know it's interesting to me is you know kids talk. People talk. And when she shared those concerns, I mean, these are clearly -- I've seen them. These are clearly writings that you could really never imagine in your wildest dreams unless -- it would seem obvious that you have some struggles, you were dealing with something. What did people think of those writings? What has been the response from what you've put in the "Collegiate Times?"
SHAPIRO: It was just -- they literally had to shrug it off, they just had to joke, it was just too bizarre. I mean, they would joke about it with each other, and I'm not sure how the faculty reacted, I haven't been able to talk to them about it. But it was something that -- it was because he was just such a ghost, so apparitional, just not there. They said that half the time, he would just sit there with his head down in the class, and then whenever somebody would address him, he maybe would look up, but he -- she mentioned she only heard him say one word the entire semester and he only smiled even once. I mean --
COLLINS: Does anyone know how he was doing academically? Was he completing work, was he handing things in? I mean, he was so non- responsive, I wonder about that.
SHAPIRO: I talked to another teacher who apparently taught him last fall, and she was very, very shocked and very distressed over this entire event. And she mentioned that he had a very good grasp of the ...
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com
