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Virginia Tech Victims Remembered; Alec Baldwin's Parental Meltdown?; Former Qwest Communications CEO Found Guilty of Insider Trading; Reports of Person With Weapon at Johnson Space Center; Iraq's Fortune Teller
Aired April 20, 2007 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon, live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Betty Nguyen.
Tuned in and turned off -- Blacksburg, Virginia, has had enough of the national media. Soledad O'Brien has the story.
LEMON: In Baghdad, they already know the news. So, viewers prefer a glimpse into the future with a man who channels Kreskin.
NGUYEN: Plus, estranged parents behaving badly -- yes, a celebrity dad is caught on tape. And we are going to ask a divorce lawyer if all is fair in love and war.
You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(BELLS RINGING)
NGUYEN: A day of mourning for Virginia Tech massacre victims, as the final bodies are released to their families. Officials say all autopsy and coroner reports are complete, leaving families free to make funeral plans.
Cho Seung-Hui killed as many as 32 students and faculty on Monday. Now there's word that as many as 225 shots were fired. A law enforcement source says most of the victims were hit at least three times.
And, coming up in just a few minutes, CNN's Soledad O'Brien will report on what we're learning about the mind-set of this gunman.
LEMON: And, four days after the Virginia Tech massacre, more of the victims' families are speaking out.
Jarrett Lane was a senior.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRACEY LANE, MOTHER OF VIRGINIA TECH VICTIM: Jarrett was so proud to be a Hokie. He was a Hokie through and through. He had no other ambition, except to go to Tech and into engineering and to go on to graduate school. He would call me up. He would send me pictures over his cell phone. He would be going to football games. And I can remember he sent me one. He was all in red paint, a red and orange paint. And, he said, mom, I'm going to the game. We're going to cheer.
And I said, don't you think you ought to put a shirt on?
He said, oh, no, we're going to shirtless. We're all painted up.
And, of course, he sent me a picture. And there he was, all painted up. You couldn't even tell who he was.
And I said, well, how was it?
And he said, well, we got a couple of funny looks and a couple of stares. And even people stopped just to have pictures taken.
And I said, did you have a good time?
He said, I always have a good time.
And -- but, aside from that, Jarrett knew what he was there at Tech for. He was there for an education. And he was serious. He was a serious student. Anybody can tell you that. Besides his fun-loving personality, his first thing was being a student.
Jarrett worked so hard the last four years. And he was so close. He knew he was going to graduate. He had bought his cap and gown. He had did everything that -- to prepare for graduation. And to be so close, and yet not to walk, it really -- it really touches me, as a mom, that they have decided to do that. And I will be there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Jarrett Lane, a civil engineering student, was from Narrows, Virginia.
NGUYEN: Well, he survived the Holocaust, only to be gunned down by a madman on a college campus. Liviu Librescu was buried in Israel today. The 76-year-old engineering professor died standing in the door of his classroom at Virginia Tech, trying to protect the students from Cho Seung-Hui.
His wife wept as she spoke about her husband's terrifying last moments. Librescu received a posthumous medal for scientific accomplishments and heroism from Romania, which is his native country.
And you can read more about the victims and the various ceremonies taking place in honor of Virginia Tech. All you have to do is log on to CNN.com/specials.
Well, before Virginia Tech, there was Columbine, a day of horror at a high school outside Denver eerily reminiscent of Monday's rampage in Blacksburg. Two troubled teams armed with pipe bombs, guns and deep-seated grudges killed 12 fellow students and a teacher, then killed themselves. It happened eight years ago today. Frank DeAngelis was the principal at Columbine High School. He's still there now. And he understands the trauma of those at Virginia Tech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANK DEANGELIS, PRINCIPAL, COLUMBINE HIGH SCHOOL: I think what happens is what I experienced, is, a lot of times, people would come to me and saying, Frank, God, you are so strong. It doesn't seem to be bothering you.
And I'm feeling all these emotions inside, and I'm having a difficult time. When I walk in the building, my heart rate increases or my blood pressure increases. And what I try to tell them is, we all deal with it differently.
And what I would have to say is, I'm experiencing some of the same things, where there were several times I went to the doctor and thought I was having a heart attack. But they were anxiety attacks. And so that is the key. There's not one set way that everyone is supposed to be feeling.
And I think, when they -- when people talk to them, people need to understand that. And people deal with stress in different ways. What I saw happen at Columbine is, you had people that wanted to talk about it. You had others that did not want to mention it, thinking it may go away.
And so that goes back to what I was saying earlier. You need to respect where people are at a particular period of time in their life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Columbine High School is closed today, as it is each April 20.
LEMON: Well, on the Virginia Tech campus, the focus is on the victims and figuring out how in the world you recover when a gunman mows down your friend, your student, your teacher, your loved one.
CNN's Soledad O'Brien has been on the Virginia Tech campus all week. And she's working on a special that will air this weekend. And she joins us here in Atlanta with more on that.
It's just one of the most unbelievable stories, I think, probably that you have ever covered.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It really is.
LEMON: The scope of it, right, the tragedy?
O'BRIEN: It is. It is. It's almost a cliche to say, because we said the same thing about Columbine, which, of course, was a tragedy that I covered as well.
What you see on the campus at Virginia Tech are students and teachers and parents and the community that is stunned, because, as a nation, we look at Virginia Tech and say, that's the site of the worst gun violence in U.S. history. And they say, but this is our home.
And they are trying to figure out how do you recover and move on, while the media is still there, while people are continually in their faces, frankly, asking for interviews.
Some people want to talk.
LEMON: Right.
O'BRIEN: It's cathartic. They want to move on. They want to talk about their friends who were lost.
Other people will say, I never want to speak about it again.
LEMON: Yes.
And you spoke to some of those people, which is coming up in your special. Let's take a listen to some of them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH SAMAHA, FATHER OF VIRGINIA TECH VICTIM: You know what? Since the first we have heard of this, I'm focused on my daughter.
O'BRIEN: You don't want to know anything about the shooter?
(CROSSTALK)
SAMAHA: It's -- that doesn't make any difference to me anymore. I mean, I don't know why. We may never know why. So, it doesn't mean anything to me.
I'm focused on my child, my family, my friends, and reunite her with us, and, then -- and, you know, give her a decent burial, a beautiful burial that she deserves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: That's Joseph Samaha. His daughter Reema was killed. She was a freshman -- especially painful for people to see the pictures of Cho.
LEMON: You can hear it in his voice.
O'BRIEN: Oh, a beautiful girl, a girl who was loved by everyone she met, a talented dancer, young, energetic.
Her friend Erin Peterson, who lived next door to her in the dorm, also was in the same French class. And Erin was killed as well. They, as a group, the victims' families, are so distraught by the images of Mr. Cho. It's been very hard for them to focus on them. As you heard him say, he wants to talk about his daughter. He does not want to think about the man who committed this.
LEMON: Many of the family members of the victims have spoken out in the media, saying, you know what? Please don't show that again...
O'BRIEN: Enough.
LEMON: ... because it's -- it's...
O'BRIEN: It's brutal.
LEMON: ... hitting us again.
O'BRIEN: It's -- it's absolutely brutal...
LEMON: Yes.
O'BRIEN: ... for the families.
LEMON: What about him? Does he blame anyone at the university for this?
O'BRIEN: You know what I found really interesting was that there has not been a big groundswell of people who want to blame the university. Some people do.
But, for the most part, people say, well, hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to blame.
This campus is like many other campuses, in that it's open. It's a university. It's kind of like a small town, in and of itself. And, so, it's almost impossible to stop something like this. That was interesting to me, because I thought there would be anger that rolled into a demand for culpability...
LEMON: Right.
O'BRIEN: ... by the administrators, of course, the e-mails and the delay, et cetera.
There were very few people who thought that that was the case, very, very few.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: So, the students -- I guess you shouldn't say blame, but who do the students think is responsible for that, especially the delay and two-hour delay?
O'BRIEN: People consistently say, there's no value in blame. Let's instead spend the time talking about the people who -- who were lost, which I thought was really interesting.
I mean, consistently, virtually everyone we interviewed said, I don't want to lay blame. I'm grieving, and I don't -- I would rather remember what I lost than focus on anything else.
LEMON: That will come later, if it comes at all...
O'BRIEN: Yes. LEMON: ... the blame or the responsibility part.
Soledad, it's always good to see you. Wish it was...
O'BRIEN: The pleasure is mine, of course.
LEMON: Wish it was better circumstances.
O'BRIEN: Yes, of course. Of course.
LEMON: Thank you so much. I look forward to your special.
O'BRIEN: Thank you.
LEMON: And Soledad O'Brien will have much more on the CNN special investigations unit report. It's called "Massacre at Virginia Tech," correct? And it will air tomorrow and Sunday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.
Thanks, Soledad.
NGUYEN: Yes, looking forward to that.
In the meantime, want to tell you about this. A senior senator sums up his opinion of the Iraq war, and not everyone is on board, not by a long shot.
Majority Leader Harry Reid calls the war lost, if the president continues his current direction.
Well, the Pentagon chief takes issue with that.
Here is Senator Reid, and reaction from Defense Secretary Robert Gates.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: Given the White House spin machine that's been working overtime in an effort to defend its failed policies, I think it's important for me to repeat what I said yesterday afternoon in this chamber.
The longer we continue down the president's path, the further we will be from responsibly ending this war. I said it yesterday. I say it again. The longer we continue down the president's path, the further we will be from responsibly ending this war.
But there is still a chance to change course. And we must change course.
ROBERT GATES, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I would say that I have a great respect for Senator Reid. And, on this -- on the matter of whether the war is lost, I respectfully disagree.
(END VIDEO CLIP) NGUYEN: Defense Secretary Gates is in Iraq for a second day. Now, his message to Iraqi leaders: American commitment is long-term, but not open-ended.
LEMON: Living in a war zone, looking to the future -- ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM, you will meet Iraq's answer to Kreskin.
NGUYEN: They say all is fair in love and war. Well, ahead in the NEWSROOM, a bitter Hollywood divorce boils over, as an angry call gets leaked to the media.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: It is just about a quarter past the hour. Here are some of the stories we're working on for you right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
Residual fear from the Virginia Tech massacre felt all the way across the country -- two California school systems remain closed today, after a man allegedly threatened to make Virginia Tech look mild.
GOP presidential hopeful John McCain may want a new comedy writer. The Arizona senator is busy explaining his failed attempt at humor in a South Carolina appearance, telling critics to -- quote -- "Get a life."
And, from Baghdad, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates says he respectfully disagrees with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's assessment that the war in Iraq has been lost -- Betty.
NGUYEN: Well, Hollywood's ugliest custody battle in years takes an even nastier tern. Listen to this.
Actors Alec Baldwin and Kim Basinger have been waging a very public war of words against another -- one another since their divorce five years ago. But Baldwin's latest rant was meant to be private. Well, it was directed at his 11-year-old daughter.
We want you to listen to the parental meltdown left on a voice mail.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: I'm tired of playing this game with you. I'm leaving this message with you to tell you, you have insulted me for the last time. You have insulted me. You are a rude, thoughtless little pig.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Well, Baldwin's spokesman acknowledges more appropriate language should have been used, But says -- quote -- "In the best interests of the child, Alec will do what the mother is pathologically incapable of doing, keeping his mouth shut and obeying the court order. The mother and her lawyer leaked this sealed material, in violation of a court order, although Alec acknowledges that he should have used different language in parenting his child. Everyone who knows him privately knows what he has been put through for the past six years."
And Alec Baldwin's attorney tells CNN she has filed a motion asking for a hearing on how those tapes were leaked.
So, let's talk to attorney Fred Siegel about this right now. Many of you may recall him as Liza Minnelli's lawyer in her divorce from David Gest.
Fred, we appreciate you for being on the show today.
FREDERIC SIEGEL, DIVORCE LAWYER: My pleasure.
NGUYEN: In listening to those words -- and that was just some of them -- left on the voice mail, I also want to tell you that we have learned through TMZ that Los Angeles county superior commissioner has temporarily suspended Baldwin's visitation rights. And a hearing is set for May 4, where the judge could permanently deny Baldwin visitation or even contact with his daughter Ireland, who we're looking at in a picture right now.
Is there enough evidence in this tape, and what's happened in this nasty custody battle, to really ban him from seeing his child?
SIEGEL: Well, in custody cases, judges like to proceed with caution. And there's really no major prejudice to Mr. Baldwin if he doesn't see his child for a few weeks. But, based on those comments, I believe a judge would be real concerned about what he might say if he's alone with the child, and he seems to be a little bit out of control, by virtue of that message.
NGUYEN: Well, at the same time, who is worse here, what Alec Baldwin said or the fact that these tapes were leaked? I mean, it seems like the child is in the middle of just an awful war between her parents.
SIEGEL: I think the judge is going to be angry at both parties. Certainly, Mr. Baldwin created it by leaving the message, which I'm sure he regrets.
And you can understand his frustration to some -- at some point, because he probably has had difficulty communicating with his daughter by telephone. And that may be the most of the contact he's having.
But to -- to release this tape and make it public is really detrimental to this child. So, I think the judge is going to come down on both people for saying, why are you going to put your daughter in the middle of this? And it's embarrassing. And being 12 years old is difficult enough than to have your parents being fodder for the newspapers and TV.
NGUYEN: You handle a lot of celebrity divorce cases. And, in looking at this, I mean, is this a new low? What does this do to that child in the middle, Ireland, in the middle of all of this? SIEGEL: I think it's horrible for her. Certainly, she should have a lawyer appointed for her to represent her interests.
You know, the parties are really thinking about themselves at this point, and this is a battle that -- the only thing they have left, I believe, to fight about is the daughter. And that's why it's taking a life of its own.
NGUYEN: I want you to listen to something, because, last year, Alec Baldwin spoke with Larry King on being a father. Take a listen to that interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": What kind of father are you?
BALDWIN: Well, I think I'm like a lot of men I know. I'm kind of a slave to my daughter whenever my daughter is around.
KING: Tell me about it.
BALDWIN: Yes. I mean, when my daughter is around, I just...
KING: She owns you?
BALDWIN: Yes. I mean, I just do whatever she tells me to do.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: The deal I have with her, we will go to the store. I mean, I joke with her. I say, we will go to the store, and she will want to go buy things. And she's not greedy. She's not gluttonous in any way. She's a very reasonable kid. She's a great person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: In listening to that, what does it tell you about the relationship that Baldwin has with his daughter?
SIEGEL: Well, it doesn't sound like a real mature relationship.
You know, the words that he uses to describe his daughter, I don't believe, are real appropriate. It seems like he has some issues in terms of how to behave as a parent. So, a judge might want to have -- might insist that he take some kind of parenting classes, maybe some anger management classes. I mean, I think there are some real serious issues that he has.
But I don't think it's one-sided. You know, this daughter's been living with both people. And, apparently, the mother has more influence than he does, because he is -- he is in New York and she's in California.
But, you know, he's definitely engaging in inappropriate conduct and saying things that he shouldn't be saying. NGUYEN: You know, I find it interesting. We were talking about this all morning long. And, when you look at it from a male perspective and a female perspective, it varies.
Also, when you talk to people who have grown up in different households, some of them will tell you, you know what? I heard this kind of talk growing up all through my life.
So, do you find a lot of this not really surprising when it comes to custody battles, as odd and as shocking as it can be?
SIEGEL: Well, in custody battles, everything is scrutinized. So, Mr. Baldwin should have been more circumspect and been more careful about what he said, because, in a custody case, everything gets magnified.
So -- but you wonder, if he's being careful now, what he says when there is no one is looking. So, I would be somewhat concerned. But I think if the -- if the mother, if Kim Basinger is not allowing the telephone contact to occur on a regular basis, then the judge is going to be unhappy with her.
NGUYEN: All right. Fred Siegel, a celebrity divorce attorney, joining us today, we appreciate your time.
SIEGEL: Thank you.
NGUYEN: Don.
LEMON: All right, Betty, thank you.
Living in a war zone, looking to the future -- ahead in the CNN, you will meet Iraq's answer to Kreskin. Remember that from "The Tonight Show"?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: On Wall Street, the final hour of the trading day is well under way. The Dow industrials notched two back-to-back record highs this week and appear on a track for a third. Well, what do you know?
Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange to tell us what is going on with that.
Hello. TGIF, too.
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: TGIF. A great day...
LEMON: Oh, yes.
LISOVICZ: ... on Wall Street, Don. The rally has been strong and unfaltering right since the opening bell.
The bulls are charging, getting momentum from a series of strong earnings reports that are flooding the market this week, Honeywell, Caterpillar, American Express leading the Dow into record territory, past the 12900 mark for the first time. A win today would mark the 15th out of the 16 sessions for the blue chips.
They are on fire and, right now, up 129 points, at 12937. That is a gain of 1 percent. The Nasdaq composite, meanwhile, is up 19 points, or three-quarters-of-a-percent, across-the-board rally today -- Don.
LEMON: Another story, Susan, grabbing headlines, corporate crime. I hear another former CEO -- another one -- could be heading to jail?
LISOVICZ: And to jail for a long time, although his lawyers are appealing, not surprisingly, Don.
His name is Joseph Nacchio. A lot of us on Wall Street know that name well, because he's the former chief of Qwest Communications, joining the list of once high-flying executives, like Jeff Skilling, the late Ken Lay, Dennis Kozlowski, Bernie Ebbers, all of them falling from grace, and falling hard.
A federal jury yesterday convicted Nacchio on 19 of 42 counts of insider trading. The government charged that he pumped up Qwest's stock with questionable accounting practices, and then reaped the rewards by selling off more than $100 million worth of his own shares.
But, unbeknownst to shareholders, Qwest was in dire financial straits and nearly went bankrupt. Nacchio could get 190 years in prison -- a much lighter jail term likely. He could also face a fine of up to $19 million and have to pay millions more in restitution -- sentencing set for July.
And, by the way, one of the biggest beefs about CEOs is not only criminal activity, but lofty compensation packages. Today, in Washington, the House voted to give shareholders a say. The vote is nonbinding, but proponents of the bill say investors need to have some input, especially when companies lose money, but still reward executives with multimillion-dollar compensation packages.
Coming up; Dow 13000. I'm tracking it to see if it happens today.
(LAUGHTER)
LISOVICZ: And I will bring you the closing bell live in 30 minutes.
Don and Betty, in the meantime, there it is. That's 70 points. Could happen.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: All right.
LISOVICZ: Back to you.
LEMON: Thirty minutes. We will be looking forward to that.
Thank you.
Meantime, we have some developing news. We want to get to the NEWSROOM.
What do you have for us, T.J.?
T.J. HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We have a situation out at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas.
We do have live pictures I think we can bring you now of the scene. What's happening outside? You see this police presence. But they got a call, police did, about a possible gunshot in one of the buildings at the Johnson Space Center. Specifically, it was building 44 at the Johnson Space Center. And that is the communications and engineering building.
Now, initial reports were that the police got a call about someone in the building with a weapon. And then it turned out, the police confirmed to us that they say they are responding because someone told them they had heard the sound of a gun going off in building 44 -- so, a situation they're trying to diffuse, ongoing.
The building has been evacuated. And, of course, Johnson Space Center, so central in all the space shuttle missions. It's mission control for all of those missions. So, that's why a lot of people know the name, one of the big centers for NASA -- but the sound of a gun going off at a building there, the communications and engineering building, a situation we're keeping our eye on.
And, as soon as we get more, we certainly will get back to you -- Don.
LEMON: Absolutely. We will continue to follow this developing story, as well as all of the day's top news coming up in the CNN -- more in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: It is the bottom of the hour. A developing story at the nation's premier space center. T.J. Holmes following it for us.
What do you have, T.J.?
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, again, taking you back to Houston, Texas, the Johnson Space Center, where police have evacuated a building there -- building 44 is what it is -- because they got reports of a person with a weapon in that building and possibly the sound of a gunshot was heard inside that building.
We have KPRC, a local affiliate there, the chopper reporter which is above the scene right now. We'll take a listen in to get his perspective from the scene.
STEPHEN DEAN, KPRC CHOPPER REPORTER: They have people guarding them with guns because they don't know why this gunman has taken control of this office. They don't know whether somebody who has been evacuated from this office may still be a target. So they want to gather everybody in one place, and those are the employees from building number 44 here at Johnson Space Center who are now gathered right there tightly huddled under police guard while a number of other officers stage.
And we are seeing some activity now near the building. But police have to be very, very careful.
There is a protocol for doing a high-risk entry of a building like this. A high-risk entry of a house is much, much less challenging than the high-risk entry of an office building, a two- story office building like this. So they are waiting on S.W.A.T. and they're waiting on the experts to tell them what to do next.
HOLMES: All right. Well, we are certainly learning here just from listening in to the reporter there for just a moment. But words we heard there just from the reporter was that a gunman possibly taking control of the office.
And we saw pictures there of employees gathered. And they were under the guard of the police officers. And trying to figure out their next move.
Some of the initial and first reports we're getting just about the sound of a gun, also the possibility of someone in there with a weapon. But it sounds, at least from that reporter, that police have -- or at least have pretty good reason to believe that there is a gunman in there, in the words used by that reporter. Don't know why he had taken control of the office.
Now, again, we saw the employees there, as we watch this scene, the scene there on your right. The employees gathered. Again, according to the reporter, this is information we were just picking up there live, hearing it the first time as our viewers were hearing it, is that those people are being kept in one spot.
Police trying to keep an eye on everyone. And they are being kept there under guard right now.
Again, the initial report not too long ago, the scene you are looking here, for folks just joining us, is this is Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas, one of the primary spots for NASA where a lot of mission control takes place, where all the space shuttle missions. But building 44, the communications engineering building, reports there of a possible gunman.
Reports of a sound of a gunshot heard in that building. Reports that someone in there with a weapon. And it appears that right now police are getting to the scene and trying to diffuse this situation, and possibly figure out exactly what's going on.
But I'm going to toss it back to you here, Don. But it looks like they are waiting for some bigger guns, if you will, to show up before they launch any kind of assault on, like you heard the reporter say, this two-story building and figure out exactly who might be in there and what is going on. So certainly a serious situation, Don. We're keeping an eye on it.
LEMON: A lot of folks work there, T.J. And it is, you know, NASA's training center. So we'll keep an eye on that.
T.J., thank you so much for that report. We're going to check back if the situation warrants it right here in the NEWSROOM.
Today, on what would have been her 11th wedding anniversary, Mary Winkler stands convicted of killing her minister husband in Selma, Tennessee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE WEBER MCCRAW, MCNAIRY COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT: "We, the jury. find the defendant, Mary C. Winkler, guilty of voluntary manslaughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: The prosecution wanted a conviction of first-degree murder, but the jury of 10 women and two men settled on the lesser charge during eight hours of deliberations. Near the end of the trial, Winkler had taken the stand in her own behalf, describing years of abuse at the hands of her husband. Her lawyers feel that had a powerful effect on the jury.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LESLIE BALLIN, MARY WINKLER'S ATTORNEY: I think that Mary was Mary, that we saw truly Mary. That she was honest, she had to bear and tell the world what went on behind those doors. And I think that her testimony played a huge role in the decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Mary Winkler remains free on bond for now. Her sentencing is set for May 18th. Her conviction carries a sentence of three to six years in prison.
NGUYEN: In other news, millions of Iraqis living amid uncertainty and misfortune. But now one man is trying to give them just a small dose of certainty by reading their fortunes. He's Iraq's famous fortuneteller, and our Kyra Phillips met him.
Kyra joins us now to talk about it live. Hopefully he had good news for you, Kyra.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS (voice over): In a country where so many people want answers, there is one man who says he has them.
(on camera): Are you psychic?
(voice over): "That is what they call me."
(on camera): Do you consider it a spiritual gift?
(voice over): "Yes, along with my experience, insight and knowledge. I can look at a person and read what's inside of them."
Psychic, astrologer, psychologist, Ali al-Bakri says he's had premonitions since childhood, watching people, recording his thoughts, and seeing them come true. Now he brings his good fortune to the frontlines, offering answers, hope, understanding to Iraq's war zone and its people.
"Your Fortune" hit the airwaves two years ago, becoming the most popular show in Iraq.
"Iraqis have reached a critical stage," Ali tells me. "They need someone who can relieve their stress. People want someone or some leader they can trust. I want them to know life goes on whatever happens."
Hadeel al-Bayati takes your calls, while Ali taps into his computer, listens to your question, focuses on your energy, and verifies his vision.
Ahmed (ph) from Basra gives Ali his birth date and time. He wants to know what will happen with his job.
"According to your information," Ali says, "you're either a politician or a high-ranking official." "Yes," Ahmed (ph) says. "According to my calculations," Ali explains, "you will have a promotion in July."
Jobs, sex lives, security, and violence. For one hour, every Saturday on Al-Iraqiya TV, Ali's predictions give Iraqis peace of mind.
"Ali always gives honest answers," Hadeel says. "He's not spontaneous. He relies on his research, astrology, the stars, and because of his correct answers, this show is strong."
(on camera): So, what do you think will happen with regard to the new government?
(voice over): "I think government will witness positive changes, specifically in May."
(on camera): Do any leaders in this country ask you for your advice, ask you for predictions, any members of the new government? Has Nuri al-Maliki called you and said, "Tell me what's going to happen"?
(voice over): "I cannot answer these questions." (on camera): So, there are some powerful people who have asked you for your advice?
(voice over): "Yes," he says, "it's happened. But understand I care more about helping the Iraqi people, not an official."
But there are no secrets when it comes to the success of "Your Fortune". The show now gets calls from Libya, to Saudi Arabia, and its luck isn't running out any time soon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right. Pardon the interruption, but we have to get back to this breaking story, what's happening at the Johnson Space Center near Houston, Texas.
KTRK, our CNN affiliate -- let's actually go to the public information officer from the police department.
Tell us about this. We're hearing someone with a gun. Someone -- someone with a gun, gunshots heard in the building. Is that correct?
JAMES HARTSFIELD, PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER, JOHNSON SPACE CENTER: I am actually not the public information officer for the police. I am the spokesperson for NASA, the space center.
LEMON: Johnson Space Center. OK. Go ahead.
HARTSFIELD: However, I can't confirm the details that you mentioned. I can tell you about 1:40 p.m. is when the call came in to respond, a person with a weapon in the building. Security personnel here and Houston police responded.
The situation remains in progress. And beyond that, you know, the details are developing.
LEMON: OK. How many people in this building, 44? Is this where -- is this where the person with a gun was seen?
HARTSFIELD: I'd say it's one of our smaller office buildings on site. And I don't have an exact number of people in that building.
I can tell you they evacuated the building. So, you know, all of the employees that we had evacuated are out. And they've been taken away from the building and actually told they can disperse to wherever they want to go at this point.
LEMON: OK. So I would imagine, Johnson Space Center, extremely tight security. A person getting on would have to have some sort of I.D., security card, and what have you. So if they're with a gun on the property, you'd be hopefully easily be able to get a hold of them?
HARTSFIELD: Well, our security rules certainly do not allow weapons on the property. But, you know, I wouldn't speculate on what occurred here or how -- how, you know, the incident developed, because I just don't have those details at this point.
LEMON: OK.
What's happening now? You said employees are -- have been told they can go home or disperse to go wherever they want to. The building is empty.
HARTSFIELD: Yes, the people were evacuated out of the building and kept in a group. And certainly we were checking a roster to ensure all the people that we know that are in that building have left.
Beyond that, they were allowed then to leave. And police have the building in progress with their work, and it's ongoing.
LEMON: OK. Thank you. James Hartsfield, public information officer for NASA, correct?
HARTSFIELD: That's correct.
LEMON: Thank you, sir, for joining us here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
HARTSFIELD: Certainly.
NGUYEN: We do want to stay with this story and bring you more information as it develops on it. What we're going to do right now is let you listen to a little bit of our affiliate coverage with KTRK there in Houston.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They've surrounded that building, and of course all of the exits and entries to that -- entrances to that building.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. All right. This is on the west side of the building here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just off the field where the units had pulled in to the field. And they have taken up position here. And those...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, I suppose -- you know, we only hope that everyone has been evacuated from that building. But we saw earlier, Dave, that there is someone who came out. And the police, of course, searched him. And he must have just been someone who didn't get the word, or found out later that the building was evacuated. But he has cleared himself from the building, and now you see, of course, the security officers who have surrounded the building.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. There's no telling how many people are still in the building.
Quite a few over in the staging area where a lot of the police are. And as you mentioned, the one gentleman came out from a door on the west side of the building and ran to that officer. He was searched briefly and then directed to the parking lot just south- southwest of where we are now.
And again, you can see the officers setting up around the -- mostly the west side of the building. There are two other units here on the east side of the building, two security trucks. We have not actually seen any officers out of the trucks and anywhere near the east side of the building that we can see through these trees.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, building 44, Johnson Space Center. Man inside with a gun.
Now, this is largely engineering offices inside this building, and clearly the larger portion of the building, which is on the west side of it, is something a little bit more than offices. Perhaps a bit more training goes on there. But you have largely a lot of engineering offices inside this building.
Now, the engineers who are coming out, everyone is being searched. And we saw that one individual who had his hands up and was being searched as he came out. Sort of a late departure from the building as everyone -- hopefully everyone else -- has been evacuated from the building. But we do not know whether others may be inside.
It's possible, of course. And certainly plausible. But inside right now, certainly still a very tense situation, because you have the officers around at all corners, all exits, all entrances, and posted in various places watching very closely through the window.
And we do not know whether there are any officers inside. But apparently the gunman is still in there and still causing some degree, of course, concern. Now, we don't know whether any of the officers or S.W.A.T. perhaps on the scene has any communication with that man inside.
A two-story building, rather small. There are dozens of buildings on the Johnson Space Center. Of course -- of course, certainly not the publicity that the Johnson Space Center or NASA needs at this point, especially after the Lisa Nowak incident.
But there doesn't appear, at least through the windows, to be any motion inside. And we haven't seen anyone appearing at any of those windows. Only officers outside at all corners watching very closely and with hands very close to the triggers of their guns.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this point, we're really just trying to see what we can see through these windows here.
You noticed a lot of double doors on the ground floor level here as we came around the west side over there, one of which is a glass double-door walkway. Two units -- or two officers, rather, were right at that door. Then briefly we saw one officer run back toward the field area that we've been showing you.
And now we can tell that they are -- they have essentially surrounded the building at every -- at every post here, on every corner of the building here. One, sometimes two officers, at each post. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, the large structure on the west side of the building appears to have like a huge garage on that area. So it must house something other than offices there on the west side. But as we look in the second-story windows here, large plate glass windows, not any visible motion.
There you have 44 for the building number at Johnson Space Center. And you have, of course, the officers in all areas.
They have surrounded that building. And not sure who is inside at this point, whether there are officers inside or what the gunman may be doing.
We don't know whether there are any hostages, whether anyone has been injured. We only know that there are reports of a gun, and that is the -- that was the initial call that came in about 30 minutes ago, that a person inside did indeed -- was brandishing a weapon and later determined to be a gun. And officers immediately set up a perimeter around the building.
Johnson Space Center, of course, has its own security officer force there, playing a large part in this -- this perimeter. They have evacuated that building. Space Center Intermediate, that is the middle school there, the intermediate school, has been shut down there.
It's under lockdown. And under lockdown, it's not -- not wise to go try and pick up your child. Better to just wait until they are not in lockdown and then you can pick up your child a little bit later.
Under lockdown, it is extremely difficult to get in or out, of course. That's the purpose of the lockdown, just to make sure no one comes or goes and everyone is safe inside. So Space Center Intermediate under lockdown. That's a Clear Creek ISD school.
And building 44 remaining at this point just about under lockdown as well.
All right. I understand we have Gina Sunseri.
I apologize if I did not pronounce that name correctly.
Are you with NASA?
GINA SUNSERI, ABC NEWS PRODUCER: No, I am the ABC producer in Houston.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ABC News producer.
Yes, go ahead, Gina.
SUNSERI: What would you like to know, guys?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, what have you been able to determine there, Gina (ph), that is occurring? SUNSERI: NASA security got a phone call about 1:40, someone reporting a man with a handgun inside building 44, which is an antenna communications building. They -- someone else also reported (INAUDIBLE) possible shots fired.
NASA security responded, evacuated the building. Houston Police has responded as well. The building is circled. It has been evacuated.
The police have gone and done one search through the building and come up with nothing. They are searching again. So that is -- that is where we are at this point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So police have already gone through, and they've at least searched the building once, you say. They haven't been able to find anything, but at least the initial call was, that it appeared or at least sounded as though a gun was fired?
SUNSERI: Yes, those were the initial reports, but we're not allowed to talk to any employees out here. They say it's still a very fluid situation. And so, really, what we know is far less than what we don't know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So are you near where the employees have been evacuated then?
SUNSERI: Yes, I am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And at this point, you aren't allowed to talk to you?
SUNSERI: No. We've been asked not to approach employees by the Johnson Space Center. And that is -- all right, they're pushing us back even farther.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So now they are pushing you back even further.
SUNSERI: Yes, they're pushing us back even further.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
LEMON: OK. You were listening in to our affiliate coverage from Houston, KTRK.
Here's what we know now, Betty.
About 1:40 p.m. Central Time, which is in Houston, Texas, the NASA public information -- or there were reports of a person with a weapon. They called Houston police. Houston police responded.
This was in building 44, which is one of the smaller buildings. That's according to James Hartfield, who is the public information officer at NASA.
He said they responded. They evacuated the building, a two-story building. Police searched once so far, according to that report on television, and then found nothing. And they are searching again.
NGUYEN: In fact, I think CNN's T.J. Holmes has a little bit more information on this -- T.J.
HOLMES: Yes, we've been listening. And some of the first -- some of the initial information we got, more detailed information was from a reporter, a helicopter reporter who was hovering above the scene there.
This is a KPRC reporter. Let's take another listen in to what he had to tell us just a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the things that police have to do in a situation like this, they are going to try and take a head count. But the problem is, those are only so accurate when you've got chaos like this. When you've got shots fired inside an office building, people get out and they scatter in different directions.
People sometimes because of the stress of things don't remember whether the person who normally works next to them really was at work after a lunch break or things like that. So that makes an accurate head count quite a challenge in a situation like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Well, certainly a good point there he brings up as we go back to this live picture of this scene, what's happening. And we heard that this is one of the smaller buildings there on the site there. But still, this is a huge complex, some 3,000 workers. Another 12,000 contractors working on site there.
But again, you see police there. And it's a scene and right now just a lot of uncertainty about exactly what's going on. But police taking this, of course, as they should, very seriously.
So we're keeping an eye on it. You're all keeping an eye on it as well.
NGUYEN: Well, a lot of uncertainty is correct, because the only information that we have received is that there is a report of a person with a gun. But just listening to that report, T.J., you heard the journalist there saying that there were shots fired. So that takes it to a different level.
Again, none of this has been confirmed through CNN. We do know that the building has been evacuated and there has at least been a report of a person with a gun.
And as Don was mentioning a little bit earlier, I mean, the good news is this is one of the smaller buildings on site. That's good news in the sense of trying to get everybody out. And as of this hour, we understand that most of the employees, if not all, have evacuated.
We want to take you back now to our affiliate coverage, as they're looking for answers as well. Let's listen in to KTRK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And certainly that's what they are trying to do. They have that place under lockdown. It's been evacuated. This is building 44 on Johnson Space Center.
Now, to give you some perspective as well as to where this building might lie on the entire, you know, NASA campus there, it's rather huge. Let's go to Tom Cook (ph).
Tom, I understand you have a map at least to give us some idea of where this building stands.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do, Art. Let me give you a bird's eye view, a satellite view, if you will, of the NASA complex, the JSC complex.
This building is almost directly in the center of the JSC complex. That's it right there, right in the middle.
Now, for those of you familiar with this area of southeast Houston, Space Center Boulevard -- excuse me -- up here. Not quite used to this in the chrome (ph) key, but at the top of your screen, this is NASA Road One as it goes down back here. And then here's the building.
And let me just zoom in and you can see up close, that's the building right here where it's taking place. A row of trees behind there. And maybe if I step out of the way you can see that parking lot where they've evacuated people to just a few minutes ago, and now they are moving them back beyond that perimeter.
But again, this is -- this is exactly the middle of the Johnson Space Center complex. And as I zoom out again, you can get another look from the satellite. As you see, it goes all the way around here, surrounded by Space Center Boulevard, Saturn Lane down here, and the NASA Road One. The space center back in this area right there.
Of course, NASA has about 10,000 contractors working in office buildings in and around the Johnson Space Center, plus about 3,000 full-time employees that work in the Johnson Space Center. So it's a lot of people to move out of those buildings, if, indeed, that's what they are doing to nearby buildings.
So far, all we know is that this is the only building that's been evacuated. And again, this is sort of away from a number of other buildings.
If I move back out of the way, you see a parking lot there. There is another minor building here. But this is the building here, as Gina Sunseri said, which is a satellite tower building right there --- Art.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, thank you, Tom. We appreciate that perspective.
And that building Tom was speaking of, there it is right there from SkyEye HD, building 44.
Now, we do know that the building that was near it, the closest building to it, that's where individuals were evacuated to. And they've been told to get behind the building, out of range of potential gunfire, we are told.
Now, we understand through individuals who have friends or relatives who work at JSC that they have at least been told, at least like in building 30 -- and that's the Mission Control Center. It's about a block and a half away from this building here. They've been told to stay where they are, not leave the rooms.
As Tom indicated, there are 3,000 full-time employees there. Building number one, they were told to stay there, lock the doors, and not leave the rooms as well.
So the entire complex and the dozens of buildings which reside there at the complex and the thousands of employees have been made well aware of this situation and have been told to just -- likely be under lockdown, is what essentially they've been told. And speaking of being under lockdown, the Space Center Intermediate School is under lockdown right now.
We have -- Karen Permetti is on the phone.
And Karen, what can you tell me about what you are telling your students there at the intermediate school?
KAREN PERMETTI, CLEAR CREEK ISD SPOKESWOMAN: Well, right now we are just sharing with our students and staff that there's a situation in the area, and as a safety precaution, we are in lockdown. And that is what we are doing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, you advise under these conditions of a lockdown for parents not to come and pick up their children, correct?
PERMETTI: That's correct. We just ask that parents not pick up their children because we really don't -- lockdown means that we don't want visitors to come in or people to leave the building.
It's, again, just for a safety -- safety issue. And we just want to minimize traffic and just follow all the guidelines that are -- that the appropriate agencies share with us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, what time does school generally let off?
PERMETTI: They get out a little before 4:00.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So they're going to be out here in the coming minutes, within the hour. And so you do not advise, of course, for any parents to be making their way that direction. That only makes the matter worse and confuses everything.
PERMETTI: Well, we just ask that they just continue to listen to their local news, visit our Web site as we update information. And we will definitely be calling all of the TV stations to let them know when lockdown has been lifted to help keep our parents informed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Karen Permetti, we appreciate your phone contact with us this afternoon, and we wish you well there at, of course, Space Center Intermediate.
And still under lockdown. Parents advised not to go to that area.
Now, we do have new information at this point. Police at the scene -- at the scene, are reporting from building 44 there at JSC that the individual in whom they are looking for -- and we have a full description of now -- he is a white male, 50 to 52 years old.
He has blonde hair, no facial hair. He's wearing glasses, slim build. About 5'9.
He was wearing a bluish-grey-colored shirt. Grey or blue jeans. And they also said he had -- he has barricaded himself on the second floor. So, this is new information and important and crucial information, of course, here, that now we at least have confirmation from the police that, yes, indeed, there is a man inside, apparently with a gun, who has barricaded himself on the second floor.
Now, what we don't know is whether anyone else is there with him. We only know that this -- that the police are reporting this individual has barricaded himself on the second floor. Or whether police even have contact with him, which, of course, would be crucial if that were the case. No doubt they are trying to at least establish some communication with this man to determine his motive and determine, you know, before this ends in an awful situation that he can possibly give himself up and turn himself over to police.
So again, Johnson Space Center, building 44. Man inside with a weapon. He has barricaded himself on the second floor.
He's a white male, 50 years old, perhaps. Slim build, blue jeans, blue-grey shirt.
And as Tom Cook (ph) had indicated a little bit earlier as well, this building is largely away from most of the buildings there on the complex. And there are a few dozen buildings in which NASA has at this complex. This building is quite remote, as Tom had indicated.
LEMON: You are listening to our affiliate coverage from Houston, Texas, talking about the situation that's happening at the Johnson Space Center.
Again, as you heard the affiliate there, the reporter saying a man barricaded himself on the second floor. This all taking place Central Time, 1:40, when they got reports of a man brandishing a gun inside of the building. Evacuated building 44 there.
NGUYEN: And we're going to have much more coverage on this. In fact, "THE SITUATION ROOM" is up now, and Wolf Blitzer will be taking it over from here.
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