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Nancy Grace
Missing 4-Year-Old Pennsylvania Girl Possibly Abducted by Mother/Jury Seated in Phil Spector Murder Trial
Aired April 23, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news. Amber Alert. A beautiful, little 4-year-old Pennsylvania girl missing. Here`s the twist. Tonight it`s revealed the child last seen getting a makeover at a salon, hair cropped short and now dyed black. Is the 4-year-old`s mom connected to her disappearance?
And tonight, to Kentucky. A man behind bars for the brutal beating of an elderly gentleman walks free after the Kentucky supreme court sends a fax demanding his release. Well, you guessed it, it was a fake. Hello! Didn`t the jail notice the misspellings in the order from the high court? And take a look, people! Upside down. It`s faxed from a Kroger (ph), you know, the grocery store. Don`t let the rest of the inmates find out. One phony fax, and hey, get out of jail free.
And tonight, the trial is a go for music genius multi-millionaire Phil Spector, facing charges he murdered actress Lana Clarkson with a single shot in the mouth there in Spector`s own California mansion, and on their very first date. As of tonight, the jury is struck, evidence set to begin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Four years and numerous hairstyles later, Phil Spector has a front-row seat in his own murder trial. The old school music producer is accused of killing actress Lana Clarkson back in 2003. Spector told authorities that Lana Clarkson`s death was, quote, an "accidental suicide."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t have an accidental suicide, by definition. Phil Spector is saying that Lana Clarkson put the gun in her mouth and then fired.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gun that Spector was seen with by the limo driver, Mr. De Souza (ph), was later found by the cops under her left hand, which was dangling down from the chair, even though she`s right-handed. So it was obviously an attempt by him, I would assume, since there was nobody else in the house, to stage a suicide scene.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The evidence points quite clearly to homicide. The fact that she was shot in the mouth can indicate homicide if the projection of the bullet was slightly down or if it`s backwards straight. And the fact that there was gunpowder on her hands -- most likely, she tried to pull the gun away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was in the foyer of Phil Spector`s home that Lana Clarkson was found dead. (INAUDIBLE) specifically (INAUDIBLE) occasions, Phil Spector put a gun to her forehead and said, If you try to leave, I`m going to blow your expletive brains out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being us tonight. First, breaking news, Amber Alert, Pennsylvania, the search for a kidnapped 4-year-old girl.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Forty-one-year-old Veronica Roadside tells her husband she`s taking her 4-year-old daughter, Alexis, to visit relatives in Newtown Square, Pennsylvania. But things quickly turn suspicious when no one hears from the mother or the little girl for several days. Then a hairdresser in a nearby town comes forward with information the 4-year-old girl was given a full makeover by her mother, the little girl`s once long brown hair cut short and dyed black. Now an Amber Alert issued for Alexis Roadside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Where is Alexis Roadside? The 4-year-old little girl apparently taken to a salon by her own mother, having her light brown long hair cut short, apparently, the way I see it, like a little boy`s, and dyed jet black. What has become of Alexis Roadside?
Straight out to Ed Miller. "America`s Most Wanted" has been on the case, too. He`s a correspondent with "America`s Most Wanted." Welcome back, Ed. What can you tell us?
ED MILLER, "AMERICA`S MOST WANTED": Well, Nancy, according to authorities, that child and the mother could be anywhere in the country because the Amber Alert was put up about four days after they first were reported missing. So they have a five-day head start. Again, anywhere in the country.
GRACE: How did it go down, Ed?
MILLER: Well, first of all, there`s a whole lot of people that could be in trouble in this -- Mom, Dad, Grandma, Grandpa, and even the court monitor. The mother and father were never supposed to have been left alone with that child. That child was in custody, or supposed to have been in custody, of the father`s parents. That would be her grandparents. And there was supposed to have been a court monitor. So how the kidnapping happened exactly is a little questionable.
But both parents were ordered to have psychiatric exams, and neither one of them was supposed to have been left alone with that child. A whole lot of trouble for a lot of people because Grandma and Grandpa may have allowed the child to go with Mom, even though they weren`t supposed to. And the court monitor, where was she during all of this?
GRACE: Out to Corporal Bill La Torre with the Pennsylvania state police. Corporal, thank you for being with us. It`s my understanding that the vehicle that the mom was last seen in has been found. Where was it?
CPL. BILL LA TORRE, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE: It was in a long-term parking lot of the Newark airport.
GRACE: OK, that`s not good at all. What more can you tell us, Corporal? I understand neither the mother nor the father had supervision of the 4-year-old little girl. Why?
LA TORRE: There was a court order which arranged for custody to be awarded to the paternal grandparents. Both the mother and father had to have supervised visitation. Unfortunately, Alexis was in the custody of her father and her mother on April 11.
GRACE: Unfortunately. Unfortunately. Let`s go out to the lawyers, Alan Ripka, Roberta Mandel. Alan Ripka, unfortunately, she was left alone in the custody of her mother. That sounds like a crime. Why would you let the child -- you know, I don`t care if it hurts the grandparents` feelings, they had custody. The parents were not supposed to have the child. Why was the child with the mother alone?
ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, obviously, it`s unfortunate that the grandparents have to watch this child and keep custody over this child. But you know something? I guess the mother said, Look, let me take the girl for a ride, I want to have a visit with her. And it must have been tough on the grandparents to say no. And unfortunately, she had another plan.
GRACE: You know what, Roberta Mandel? He`s absolutely right. It would be very difficult, let`s just say, for a grandmother to tell her daughter, No, you can`t go visit anyone with your own daughter, knowing full well what the court says. But I`m sure the daughter, the mother in this case, was very persuasive with the grandmother, who`s the custodian.
ROBERTA MANDEL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m sure that that definitely was the case. But that being said, it`s pretty horrendous. You know that the circumstances had to be pretty bad for both parents not to be able to have -- to be able to have unsupervised visits, so...
GRACE: Out to Ed Miller with "America`s Most Wanted." Ed, tell me how the getaway was made. Take a look at this little girl. This is 4- year-old Alexis Roadside. She`s now missing I believe it is day 12 out of Pennsylvania. The disturbing twist tonight, it is now revealed this woman, her mother, took her to a local salon, had her hair cropped very short and dyed jet black. What more do we know, Ed?
MILLER: Well, we can say for a fact that -- first of all, as you said, it`s almost two weeks now, and she has a big head start. We should also applaud the woman from the hair salon who stepped forward and felt uncomfortable enough to notify police.
One other little piece of information. There was a beauty supply store right next door to the hair salon place, and apparently, according to authorities, the mother went in there and inquired about hair dyes, black dye, that kind of thing, and then went to the hair salon. So in other words, there`s two sources here that are both complaining about this woman, saying she was up to no good. I mean, nobody dyes a 4-year-old child`s hair and cuts it off unless they`re planning something rather desperate, they`re really trying to hide this child.
GRACE: To Corporal Bill La Torre with the Pennsylvania state police. Corporal, do you believe she`s trying to pass the little girl off as a boy?
LA TORRE: I do believe she`s trying to mask their appearance. She probably changed her appearance, as well. But there`s no doubt that it was done in an effort to disguise the little girl`s appearance.
GRACE: Well, when you say you believe she changed her own appearance, did she have her hair dyed, as well?
LA TORRE: Well, when she went in to have Alexis`s hair cut and dyed, she was wearing a wig at the time.
GRACE: A wig? OK. I don`t want to throw a potential witness off, because she could have removed that wig, but what kind of a wig did she have on?
LA TORRE: At this time, she has probably changed her appearance or changed the wig, so we`re just going to release the photo that we have of her...
GRACE: OK.
LA TORRE: ... and not release that information.
GRACE: You know what, Corporal? You`re absolutely correct because when you get that wig, you can get another one. For all we know right now, she`s got red hair, but she could have dyed jet black hair that day.
Let`s go out to the lines. Pam in Illinois. Hi, Pam.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Love your show. I`d like to find out, why did the court -- the grandparents go to court and get custody of the little girl?
GRACE: Very interesting question. What about it, Ed Miller?
MILLER: The grandparents did not seek custody. The court gave the grandparents custody because they felt that, again, both mother and father were mentally unstable. Specifically, there were some claims that -- the mother`s court order was far more restrictive than the father, we should point out. There were claims that the mother had coached the child into lying about some sexual abuse, that sort of thing. And that`s why the court first took the child away in the first place, that they were -- you know, the foremost -- they wanted to be sure...
GRACE: Oh, no!
MILLER: ... the child was safe.
GRACE: Oh, no!
MILLER: But the mother may have coached the child into saying this against the father. And again, when they looked into it closer, they found that not to be true. But again, they felt that both of them were a little unstable, so therefore, that`s how the child ended up with the grandparents, about a year now.
GRACE: To you, Andrea Macari, clinical psychologist. Here`s the deal. The father has a little bit of a rap sheet. It`s not horrible, but he`s got a rap sheet. I think the mom has just had some traffic violations. So what I`m hearing from Ed Miller is the mom was suspected of coaching the daughter to say child abuse by the father. But can`t you tell that from a clinical exam of the child?
ANDREA MACARI, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, often when kids report child abuse, it`s more likely to be true than untrue. A good clinical interview from a good psychologist, hopefully, will reveal the truth. But Nancy, you know what the big problem here is, that parents who kidnap their children, they believe that this is an act of love, but it`s really the most flagrant form of child abuse. Fifteen percent of kids who are abducted by parents actually are abducted with force and violence. They`re left with inadequate schooling, poor nutrition, psychological trauma. And this is the fate of over 350,000 children in America each year.
GRACE: Tonight, a 4-year-old little girl is missing from Pennsylvania. Her name, Alexis Roadside. She did look like this, but now disturbing revelations that her own mother took her to a hair salon the day she went missing to have her long hair cropped short like a little boy`s, dyed jet black. Where is Alexis Roadside?
Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In this particular case, both the mother and the father were ordered to undergo psychiatric examinations. And so there must be some -- and -- because the court almost always sides with a child`s natural mother, the fact that this child was ordered to be in the custody of the grandparents is evidence that they did not feel the child was comfortable -- or the court did not feel the child was safe in the hands of the mother.
In the case of a parental kidnapping, the general rule of thumb is that authorities believe the child is not in danger, as if -- opposing that as a stranger abduction. In a stranger abduction, the child is usually thought to be in imminent danger. In terms of a parental kidnapping, the child is usually not believed to be in danger. In this particular case, authorities believe the child could very well be in danger for a lot of different reasons.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You`re not kidding, in danger. A 4-year-old little girl missing from Pennsylvania. Tonight, is her mother connected to her disappearance?
Out to Mike Brooks, former D.C. cop, former fed with the FBI. Give us your analysis of where these two are by now, Mike Brooks.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Well, Nancy, the car has now been found in a long-term lot at the airport. So number one, go to the credit cards. Let`s say, was there any ticket bought? Was there any ticket bought at all? Does this child have a passport? Does the woman have a passport? That would say, if they do, that possibly there`s a possibility of them leaving the country. But with that credit card, they should be able to get a subpoena, go back, take a look at any transactions to see if a ticket was bought.
The other piece of the puzzle they can look at, go back with the port authority. I`m sure that the Pennsylvania state police, New Jersey state police are already doing this with port authority. Go back, take a look at the security cameras at the airport. Was there any movement from that particular lot?. Then go inside the terminal. There are hundreds of cameras inside the terminal that could pinpoint exactly, even with -- even with the -- you know, not the same hair color, with a wig, anything at all, looking for a woman and the child.
Now, the other question is, they apparently -- the Roadsides have recently reconciled, you know, and the court called their relationship very tumultuous and dysfunctional. Now that they`ve reconciled, the father -- did he play a role in this whole caper? That`s my question.
GRACE: Another question to you, Mike Brooks. If the mom went in and paid for airplane tickets in cash, are those marked?
BROOKS: No, they`re not. But very rarely do people even pay with cash anymore. You know, most the time they want you to do something on line. If you`re going to make a reservation in advance, they`re going to want a credit card. So you don`t see too many cash transactions for plane tickets anymore.
But they should be able to go back and take a look also at her cell phone records. Who has she been calling? And where is the person or persons she`s been calling? Where are they now. Does she have friends, associates, relatives, in other parts of the country, in other countries? That`s a question that remains to be seen.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Barbara in North Carolina. Hi, Barbara.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to know, are the grandparents going to be charged? Because when the court gives a grandparent custody, like they did me, they specifically state who and where these children can go. So I`m wondering, are the grandparents going to be charged?
GRACE: Barbara, you`re absolutely correct. Out to you, Corporal Bill La Torre with the Pennsylvania state police. What about the grandparents? Are they facing any charges?
LA TORRE: Nancy, right now, certainly, there are some peripheral issues regarding this case, but our focus is the recovery of Alexis Roadside, and that`s what we want to focus on right now and deal with the peripheral issues at a later time.
GRACE: Well, speaking of the main issues, the main issue being finding 4-year-old Alexis Roadside -- Corporal La Torre, does she have her cell phone with her? Is she using her ATM or credit cards?
LA TORRE: Certainly, those are all things that we`re looking into. Nothing at this time that we want to release from our investigation.
GRACE: Tip line, 484-340-3241. A 4-year-old little girl believed to be in danger tonight. She no longer looks like this. Her hair has been cropped short like a little boy`s and dyed jet black. Where is Alexis Roadside?
Right now, we are switching gears and taking you to another trial, ready to go, it`s musical genius Phil Spector. The jury is struck, the evidence ready to start. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sitting down looking at television, and all of a sudden, I see all this about Phil Spector. They said that there had been someone killed in Phil Spector`s house. And it`s amazing. The first thing that came to my mind was, fooling around with guns. The last thing I told him, You fool around with guns, somebody`s going to get hurt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A beautiful actress there in California, hoping to strike it big on the silver screen, now dead from a single gunshot in the mouth. What`s so unusual, it occurred in musical genius Phil Spector`s mansion there in California. One shot to the mouth.
Out to Ed Miller on "America`s Most Wanted," covering this story, as well. Ed, the jury`s struck. Who`s on the jury and who`s been thrown off?
MILLER: Well, probably the one you`re going to hear most about is the network NBC producer who has won a spot on the jury, if you can call it winning the spot. That`s probably the most controversial. I spoke to two jury consultants today. One feels that it`s a good move, another feels it`s not a good move.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shortly after 5:00 o`clock this morning, Alhambra police officers responded to this residence at the 1700 South Grandview (ph) Drive in the city of Alhambra. When the officers arrived, they discovered that a female had been shot inside the location. The victim was pronounced dead at the scene. Mr. Philip Spector from Motown Records has been taken into custody and is being detained at Alhambra Police Department.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHIL SPECTOR, RECORD PRODUCER: The actions of the Hitler-like district attorney and his storm-trooping henchmen to seek an indictment against me and censor all means of me getting my evidence and the truth out are reprehensible, unconscionable and despicable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, here`s a guy charged with murder one in the shooting death of Lana Clarkson, a beautiful young actress there in California, and he`s complaining the police had the audacity to search his home. Man, everything`s upside down. It`s like we`re in "Alice in Wonderland."
Joining us right now, court reporter with KFI 640, Eric Leonard. Who`s on the jury? Who`s off the jury? And PS, if this motion is an indicator of where this case is headed, we`re in trouble. They`re already filing a motion by the state not to smear the reputation of this lady victim.
ERIC LEONARD, KFI 640 RADIO: That`s right. That happened a couple of weeks ago. As they were getting ready to begin the process of jury selection, the prosecutors wanted the judge to order the defense not to bash the victim. And there was a lengthy motion, it was many pages long, that addressed all sorts of aspects of the case that might come up at trial.
And the judge said, essentially, he`s not going to do a broad order that would prevent the defense from arguing some elements that might be legitimate arguments at trial, and instead, as each of these things come up -- one having to do with medication she was prescribed, another having to do with movies she appeared in, these sorts of things -- that the judge would make rulings as they got to them in the trial.
Now, as far as the jurors go, they`ve seated a panel of 12 main jurors to hear the case, and right now. they`re busy trying to select six alternate jurors. That process is going to continue tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t see anything about any semen on any breast, OK? That`s number one. Number two, it`s been proven that he moved the body. It`s also proven that he was walking, running around the room. He had to be tasered. He was running through the blood. He moved the body. There was blood on doorknobs upstairs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The jury is struck, the evidence set to begin in the trial of musical genius Phil Spector. He has been behind some of the greatest recordings in history. I`m talking about the Beatles, Ike and Tina Turner. The list is so long, I can`t even name them all for you. Is he guilty of murder?
Out to the lines. Cheryl Ann in Canada. Hi, Cheryl Ann.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Nancy. We love you out here in Canada.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, is if she was shot in the mouth and there were teeth blown all over the place, was that not against her will?
GRACE: What about it, Eric Leonard? What is the defense to that?
LEONARD: Well, they`re going to argue this a number of different ways. Obviously, the prosecution is going to say that the gun was being forced into her mouth, and when it went off, that`s what caused that injury. The defense also arguing that that`s because she had positioned the gun that way. It`s inconclusive by itself.
GRACE: Eric, did he have gunshot residue on his hands?
LEONARD: Well, that`s something that has been somewhat of a closely held part of the prosecution`s case. The word is yes. But Lana Clarkson - - her body was tested and we`re told that she had a significant amount of gunshot residue, perhaps more than was found anywhere else. And that`s obviously going to be a major part of the physical evidence.
GRACE: Well, my question is -- my question is -- very quickly to you, Mike Brooks -- if she committed suicide, as he says, the defense says, why would he have any gunshot residue on his hands, any at all?
BROOKS: That`s a perfect question. And this is -- the kind of gun they were using, if I`m not mistaken, it was a revolver. That`s why she had a lot more residue because she could have been holding on to the barrel, and after the round goes off, the powder comes out of the barrel and also around the cylinder, Nancy. That`s why she had so much.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a lot of ignorance about this case, because it takes a careful reading of the grand jury and the police reports. She was not fully clothed when she was found. And, again, I`m not making the defense for him. I`m just saying, he`s very smart. He has smart lawyers. And people like him always seem to win these cases in L.A.
PHIL SPECTOR, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER: The actions of the Hitler-like district attorney and his storm-trooping henchmen to seek an indictment against me and censor all means of me getting my evidence and the truth out are reprehensible, unconscionable and despicable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shortly after 5:00 this morning, Alhambra police officers responded to this residence at the 1700 South Grand View Drive (ph) in the city of Alhambra. When the officers arrived, they discovered that a female had been shot inside the location. The victim was pronounced dead at the scene. Mr. Phillip Spector from Motown Records has been taken into custody and is being detained at Alhambra Police Department.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A gorgeous California actress goes on one date with musical genius Phil Spector and decides to commit suicide right there in Spector`s mansion. OK, how likely is that?
He is now being represented by one of the most recognized mob lawyers in this country, Bruce Cutler. If you don`t know the name Bruce Cutler, he represented John Gotti many times, actually got him acquitted. Gotti only went to jail after Cutler was taken off the case, being called as a witness by the state. Now, that was some maneuvering.
Let`s go out to the lines. Molly in South Carolina. Hi, Molly.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: How are you, dear?
CALLER: Oh, I`m doing wonderful. Love you, Nancy.
GRACE: Bless you. What`s your question?
CALLER: Well, I have question. How can there be an impartial jury with all this massive media coverage?
GRACE: Good question. But, hey, look what happened in O.J., Michael Jackson and Robert Blake. They all managed to walk scot-free with intense coverage, Molly.
But let`s go out to Eric Leonard. What about it, Eric Leonard, with KFI 640?
ERIC LEONARD, COURT REPORTER, KFI 640: Well, the jury panel have all said in court and on their jury questionnaires that they`re able to divorce themselves from whatever they heard about the case previously and swear that they can make a fair decision. One of the most interesting members of this jury is a "Dateline NBC" producer who`s covered the Phil Spector case up until now, who even wrote on his jury questionnaire, you know, "You may not want to put me on the jury, because everybody covering this case is going to know who I am."
In fact, he had a side bar with the judge and the attorneys on both sides, and they sealed the transcript of whatever was said. But after that was said, he was sworn in as one of the 12 jurors. The others have said they have varying impressions of Spector, but all of them, universally, the ones that have been sworn in on the jury, have said that they don`t have any preconceived ideas about the evidence, that they can make a fair judgment.
And in the process of picking the alternates -- and, in fact, just a few hours ago, one of your viewers, Nancy, a woman was a prospective juror on the panel. She said she just thought that Spector was guilty and nothing was going to change her opinion about that. She was dismissed.
GRACE: Well, I understand she also said, Eric Leonard, that she had heard reporting that Spector had stated, as he emerged from his mansion after the shooting, "I think I shot somebody," words to that effect. Is that true, Eric Leonard?
LEONARD: Well, that`s something that`s going to come out through the testimony of Spector`s chauffeur from that night, who, in fact, told police and testified at the grand jury that Phil Spector walked out of the house and made that statement. The defense is probably going to argue that it was misinterpreted...
GRACE: Right.
LEONARD: ... that he was meaning one thing and said something else. But, yes, that is part of the trial.
GRACE: Right, Eric. Thanks for that enlightenment, how you say, "Oh, I think I just shot somebody," but you really meant to say, "I`m afraid she committed suicide." I can`t wait to hear that at trial.
Out to you, Dr. Daniel Spitz, medical examiner out of Michigan and forensic pathologist, what about the forensic evidence has impressed you?
DANIEL SPITZ, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, this case is going to be difficult for the prosecution and the defense. The problem is, is that the forensics and the autopsy really don`t conclusively determine whether this was a suicide or a homicide.
In this case, Phil Spector`s really going to be his own worst enemy. It`s going to be his statements and his prior problems and his behavior with guns and his behavior with women that may come back to haunt him. And it may be that he is his own worst enemy in this case.
If the jury is going to buy into that, you know, it may be difficult for the defense. But if the defense is able to overcome those problems and deal with those statements, they may, in fact, prevail.
GRACE: Well, you know, I disagree with you, Dr. Spitz. And I know you`re the M.D. I`m just a J.D. But if she has gunshot residue on her hands, OK, I understand how that can be, if she was struggling to get the gun away from him, and he`s trying to put it in her mouth. He said she committed suicide. So give me one good scenario, Dr. Spitz, as to why he should have gunshot residue on his hands.
SPITZ: Well, as Mike Brooks stated, this was a revolver, and revolvers emit a large amount of gunpowder and soot. If he is anywhere close to her when this goes off, when this gun is fired, he may, in fact, have gunpowder residue on his body and on his hands.
GRACE: Let`s get specific, gentlemen. You really think gunshot residue from a revolver went further than three feet?
SPITZ: The other thing is that...
GRACE: Was that a yes or a no?
SPITZ: It certainly may. And that`s why...
GRACE: Past three feet?
SPITZ: It certainly may. It may be on his hands. And if he touches her body afterwards, there`s going to be explanations from the defense as to how it got there. And, in fact, the jury...
GRACE: I`m not buying it, Dr. Spitz. Listen, I mean, if he`s standing three feet away from her, which is traditionally how far, as far as gunshot residue will go from a weapon, what, did he just hold his hands there? He didn`t have it anywhere else on him? That doesn`t even make sense, Dr. Spitz.
SPITZ: As long as he is in a close proximity to her body, that is going to be a sufficient explanation to allow for the finding of gunpowder on his body.
GRACE: Eric Leonard, tell me just one thing: Was the gunshot residue on Spector`s body anywhere other than his hands?
SPITZ: That`s unclear to all of us that aren`t privy to the inside information of this case. One of the pieces of evidence that`s going to be critical in all of this is a piece of clothing that he was wearing, that purportedly has some blood spots on it.
Also, I`m sure it was tested for gunshot residue, and there was some argument prior to the trial about how that piece of evidence will come in. I am sure that, when we see it, these questions will be answered for us.
GRACE: You know, to you, Ed Miller, with "America`s Most Wanted," he`s been on the case from the very beginning, as well as Eric Leonard, Ed, I`m very intrigued by the blood on Spector`s jacket. The fact that the defense is trying so hard to keep it out says to me, it`s going to be blood spatter, not a blood smudge. If there was a smudge, that could easily be explained by him reaching down to lift her up, him trying to assist her, but spatter? That means you are right there when the gun goes off, yes, no?
ED MILLER, REPORTER, "AMERICA`S MOST WANTED": Yes, ma`am, absolutely, to answer your question directly. Can I also say something about the prosecution? Because you`re talking about the defense. The prosecution team in this particular case, really tough cookies.
The last case that they just did, this team, no DNA evidence, no eyewitnesses, no murder weapon, and they got a double-murder sentence against businessman Michael Goodwin for the 18-year-old murder of racecar driver Mickey Thompson and his wife, Trudy. So we`re talking about two very tough cookies against Bruce Cutler.
GRACE: Well, you know, it will be a dogfight in the courtroom, I can tell you that. I`ve seen Cutler at work. And an 18-year-old case, that`s hard to put together.
You know, first, let`s go out to the lines. Greg in Canada, hi, Greg.
CALLER: Hi there.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CALLER: I was curious if you have any idea whether or not there`s any drug use in either of the individuals?
GRACE: Good question. What about it, Eric Leonard, any drug use?
LEONARD: We know both of them were very drunk at the time of the shooting.
GRACE: Yes, he was a .19. Woo!
LEONARD: And as far as drug use goes, there was some traces of other things, but nothing that would stand out as obviously contributing to what happened.
GRACE: Mike Brooks, weigh in.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: I`ll tell you what, Nancy, .19, I don`t think it`s that much. You know, you`re talking about being...
GRACE: .19? Good lord, man. He had a snoot full. .08 is the legal -- is the cutoff for DUI. He`s .19.
BROOKS: Yes, I mean, but still...
GRACE: But still what? That`s over twice the legal limit.
BROOKS: In the scheme of things, Nancy, .19, yes, it`s over the legal limit, but it`s not highly intoxicated, in my opinion.
GRACE: The only thing he could be doing beyond that is swimming through a sea of bourbon, Mike Brooks. I`m shocked at you.
Out to Ripka and Mandel. Alan Ripka, in a hurry, what`s your best defense?
ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: ... that he went to grab the gun to try and help her stop doing what she was doing, Nancy. There are plenty of explanations for that. And, by the way, he only knew her for three hours, so what motivation could he have to want to murder her?
GRACE: And what motivation could she have, Roberta Mandel, for going in a stranger`s home and committing suicide?
ROBERTA MANDEL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: My understanding of the evidence is that she was on three different antidepressants, and the police also found a partial memoirs on her computer. That would lead to a suicide attempt, in my mind.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nineteen-year-old Timothy Rouse, able to walk free from a Kentucky detention facility thanks to a phony fax. A fake court document ordered Rouse behind bars on charges of beating an elderly man be released. Full of misspellings, bad grammar, and no signs of a court clerk stamp, the document, faxed from a grocery store, fails to raise the suspicions of prison officials. It took them two weeks to realize the court order was fake. Now, an investigation, not only into who was behind the fake fax, but how a security breach like this is possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Incredible. I`ve got to read you this order. A guy behind bars for a first-degree felony, first-degree robbery, home invasion, and the severe beating of an elderly gentleman there in his own home, behind bars, when the jail gets a fax. Here`s a copy of the fax. And it says, "It is hereby a order, the Kentucky Correctional Psychiatric Center authorized designated transportation to transport the defendant to Fayette County defense center. Release date release the above-named defendant as effective."
And hey, guys, take a look. It`s faxed from the local Kroger, the grocery store. This guy out on the street.
To you, Nicole Partin, investigative reporter. What happened?
NICOLE PARTIN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Good evening, Nancy. Here`s what we know. Timothy Rouse, 19, was charged with burglary, felony theft, and then the assault of an elderly gentleman there in Kentucky. He was transported and being held at this Kentucky correctional and psychiatric center, where he was undergoing an evaluation prior to his trial. The fax comes in. This is crazy. The same day the fax comes in, this gentleman is released, and he goes home to Mama`s house.
GRACE: You know, to you, Carlos Moran -- this is Timothy Rouse`s defense attorney; Mr. Moran is a veteran trial lawyer. Don`t blame him for his client. But won`t this come in at trial on the aggravated assault, burglary, robbery? Won`t the jury find out about this? You`re certainly not hoping to get a plea deal anymore, are you?
CARLOS MORAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Certainly there is always room for maneuvering.
GRACE: So do you think this is going to come into evidence, Mr. Moran?
MORAN: Well, I don`t know all the facts. And I really believe that a person should be given the opportunity to have all the facts before he`s tried in the court of public opinion.
GRACE: Well, lucky for you, Mr. Moran, this guy can`t get convicted in the court of public opinion. And I agree with you.
Out to you, Rick Major. This is the Fulton County attorney who is handling the case. Mr. Major, have you ever seen anything like it? Who`s working over there at the jail?
RICK MAJOR, FULTON COUNTY ATTORNEY: Oh, it`s bizarre. It`s bizarre. But now, this facility is about 300 miles from our county, from where the prosecution was taking place. And we have to rely on these state officials and authorities to maintain the security standards to protect the public.
GRACE: Well, I agree with that, Mr. Major. I want to find out more about the crime. How old was the gentleman he allegedly beat?
MAJOR: He was in his eighties.
GRACE: Good lord in Heaven.
MAJOR: He`s a decorated World War I veteran and just a really upstanding person. It`s a sad situation.
GRACE: You know, with us is Carlos Moran, Rouse`s defense attorney, joining us from Mayfield, Kentucky, and Rick Major, the prosecutor, a veteran prosecutor out of Fulton, Kentucky. What a story.
Mike Brooks, you and I have been in so many jails I can`t even count them all. But, you know, when I go into the jail, I have to show all sorts of I.D. I would have to show my badge. You have to go through a metal detector. They get one lousy, misspelled fax from the "Supreme Court" and he walks free.
BROOKS: Sounds like someone that night was drinking too much Kentucky bourbon. I mean, I`m telling you, Nancy, I can`t believe this happened, with a Kroger -- come on...
GRACE: Kroger at the bottom of the fax.
BROOKS: This is unbelievable. First of all, they ought to start right there at whoever was working that night, fire them all, start fresh again, and find out who exactly was responsible, number one, for sending this fax. You know, hey, he was trying, he was trying to get out and he got out. You`ve got to give him credit for that. But I tell you what, Nancy, these people in that facility, they need to be out of here.
GRACE: Well, it`s easy for us to laugh at it now, because, as far as we know, he didn`t commit another crime while he was out.
Out to the lawyers, Alan Ripka, Roberta Mandel. Alan Ripka, the people at the jail said it wasn`t their duty to look and see where the fax came from. Do you buy it?
RIPKA: I don`t buy it at all. In fact, I think he had to know somebody was involved in this other than himself. First of all, where did the fax number come from? How did he know the system of releasing somebody was by sending a fax to a particular place? So I think there`s more people involved than just him.
GRACE: Ripka, I agree.
To you, Roberta Mandel, joining us out of Miami, Florida, you know, in a lot of jurisdictions, when you attack an elderly person or a very young person, that calls for enhanced sentencing.
MANDEL: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I agree with your other guest that this was definitely somebody else involved, because the answer of the director of the facility saying that often court documents are misspelled is just not an acceptable answer.
GRACE: Especially from the Kentucky Supreme Court.
To Andrea Macari, clinical psychologist, Andrea, the other thing is, the psychology of who would send this from a Kroger -- hey, it worked, they can`t be that stupid -- bet they paid with a money order. Want to put money on it?
ANDREA MACARI, INSTRUCTOR OF PSYCHOLOGY: Well, I`m not sure who`s dumber here, the prison or the prisoner. But this is a major problem, Nancy. We all could have paid for this mistake. I do think it`s interesting that the prisoner was hiding out in his mother`s house, perhaps a passive wish to be caught.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A man charged in the beating of an elderly World War II veteran claims he`s crazy and goes for a psych evaluation and then is busted out with a fake fax from the Kentucky Supreme Court.
To you, Nicole Partin, what next?
PARTIN: Well, he has been recaptured, like we said, at his mother`s house. He`s now being held again at this Kentucky correctional center, where he will go on trial, and we`ll see what happens from there. Authorities continue to search for the person who sent the phony fax. And we were talking during the break. Let`s go to Kroger and see who was working that night.
GRACE: Yes, and take a look at those security cams.
To Kristin in Georgia, hi, Kristin.
CALLER: Hey.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CALLER: Nancy, nice to hear from you. Wanted to know if this guy is going to be charged with an additional charge for, I guess, breaking out of jail?
GRACE: Kristin in Georgia, you`re darn tootin`. What about it, Rick Major?
MAJOR: I talked to Ray Larson earlier today. He`s the commonwealth attorney in Fayette County. We sent all of the documentary evidence...
GRACE: Is that a yes or a no?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I suspect you`re right, Mr. Rick Major. And, Carlos Moran, defense attorney, you`ve got a lot bigger case than what you started with.
Let`s stop for a moment and remember Army First Lieutenant Phillip Neel, 27, Fredericksburg, Maryland, killed, Iraq. A West Point grad and paratrooper, he wanted to enlist since he was a boy. Also served, Kosovo. He loved Italian food, soccer, attending church, and playing with the family dog, Mac, a yellow lab. He dreamed of becoming a small-town lawyer. The oldest of six, Neil leaves behind a large family, grieving parents, Cathy and Leroy, a retired Army colonel himself. Phillip Neel, American hero.
Thank you to our guests, and our biggest thank you, to you, for being with us. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
