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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Political Showdown Over War in Iraq; Congress Awakens: Dems Blast White House; White House Strikes Back
Aired April 25, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: A big day in the nation's capital. Tonight, the top American commander in Iraq, General David Petraeus, goes to Capitol Hill to sell his strategy for success in Iraq. Will Congress vote to withdraw our combat troops?
We'll have that special report tonight.
Also, congressional Democrats demanding accountability from the Bush administration, issuing subpoenas for key administration officials.
We'll have that story.
And Congress holding hearings on the scandal over cronyism and corruption in the student loan industry. The chairman of the committee holding those hearings, Congressman George Miller, among our guests here tonight.
We'll have all of that, all the day's news, and much more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Wednesday, April 25th.
Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
The U.S. commander in Iraq, General David Petraeus, today appealed to Congress to support the troop buildup in Iraq. But tonight, the House of Representatives is expected to vote on a resolution that calls for the withdrawal of all our combat troops from Iraq by April next year.
Congressional Democrats today widened their political assault against the Bush administration. Congressional committees using subpoenas to demand accountability from the Bush administration for the first time in almost six years.
Dana Bash reports from Capitol Hill on the political showdown over the war in Iraq.
Andrea Koppel tonight reporting on Congress's new political assault against the White House.
And Ed Henry reports from the White House on the administration's response to those attacks.
We turn first to Dana Bash -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, General David Petraeus just came out of the last briefing he gave here on Capitol Hill this evening with United States senators. And he described the briefing that he gave to members of Congress.
He essentially said that -- he said that it's a mixed bag in Iraq right now on the ground. He said that in Baghdad, in particular, things are getting better. He said there is progress there militarily. But in other places in the country, like Anbar province, things aren't so good.
So, in terms of the assessment he's giving, again, it is quite mixed. Here is what he said in terms of what he told members of Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS, U.S. COMMANDER, IRAQ: What I tried to do was give an accurate depiction of the situation in Iraq, a forthright assessment. It's an assessment that, therefore, includes areas in which there's been progress, as I mentioned. For example, the reduction of sectarian murders in Baghdad, a very important development.
And again, remember, we're in very early days in this. We're only about two months into the surge. We won't have all the forces on the ground until mid-June. And I pointed that out to them and noted that Ambassador Crocker and I would be doing an assessment in early September and provide that to our respective bosses at that time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, the general is, of course, here at a very critical time in the political debate. In just a couple of hours, the House is expected to vote on a measure that would require U.S. troops to start coming home from Iraq in October. And the general certainly came right into the middle of this political debate.
He, just a few moments ago, had made clear that he is a soldier. He didn't come here to make a political point on behalf of anybody, even his commander in chief. He said that he doesn't want to dive into what he called the minefield of the legislative proposals up here when he was asked about things like whether or not the timetable is a good or bad thing for him when he is on the ground there.
But already, Lou, we're hearing from Democrats and Republicans, probably no surprise to you, that they are saying what they took from the general supports their political point of view when it comes to this particular debate, whether or not it's a good idea to have this timetable to withdraw troops from Iraq -- Lou.
DOBBS: Dana, thank you.
Dana Bash from Capitol Hill.
Congress has seemingly awakened from what has been an almost six- year slumber. And the Democratic-led Congress, seemingly, has just discovered it is, after all, a coequal branch of government.
The House Oversight Committee today voted to issue a subpoena to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, compelling her to answer questions about prewar intelligence. Democratic lawmakers also stepping up their investigations of the role of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales in the abrupt, controversial firing of eight U.S. attorneys.
Andrea Koppel reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. JOHN CONYERS (D), MICHIGAN: All those in favor, signify by saying "aye".
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): One, by one...
REP. HENRY WAXMAN (D), CALIFORNIA: We have been slow-walked, and stonewalled, and that is not acceptable.
KOPPEL: ... from one end of the Capitol to the other...
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: We'll begin with authorizations for more subpoenas.
KOPPEL: ... Democrats fired off a flurry of subpoenas, five in all, targeting officials at the Republican National Committee, the White House, as well as the departments of Justice and State. For the first time, singling out the secretary of state herself.
WAXMAN: I deeply regret that the secretary of state is giving us no choice but to proceed with this subpoena.
KOPPEL: At issue, California Democrat Henry Waxman's demand that Rice explain her role in the now infamous and controversial prewar claim that Saddam Hussein sought to import uranium from Niger, a key justification for the U.S. invasion. Rice has repeatedly refused to testify before Waxman's committee, insisting she's already explained it all.
Now Waxman has thrown down the gauntlet.
WAXMAN: The American public was misled about the threat posed by Iraq. And this committee is going to do its part.
KOPPEL: Republicans called the move unprecedented, a waste of her valuable time, and politically motivated.
REP. TOM DAVIS (R), VIRGINIA: It's great headlines to bring the secretary of state in here and ask her to repeat something she said before, but I don't think it does us any good in terms of investigations at this point.
KOPPEL: Another person singled out for a subpoena, Monica Goodling, former counsel to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. Over some Republican objections, Democrats also agreed to offer Goodling immunity to testify about eight fired U.S. attorneys, something she has so far refused to do.
REP. RANDY FORBES (R), VIRGINIA: It's all about wearing down and destroying as many people in the administration as possible. And we get one, and just like in the barber shop, we say next and put someone else in the chair.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL: Now, in the case of chairman Henry Waxman, he says that Secretary Rice has changed her story over the years from the time that she was national security adviser, dating back to 2003. For example, in March of that year, an international atomic watchdog agency concluded that allegations linking Iraq to uranium purchases in Niger were "unfounded" and that documents cited by the U.S. were "not authentic".
However, three months later, in June of 2003, Rice went on the Sunday talk shows and said, "We did not know at the time. No one knew at the time in our circles that there were doubts and suspicions that this might be a forgery."
Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much.
Andrea Koppel from Washington.
Chairman Henry Waxman and ranking Republican Congressman Tom Davis will join us on this broadcast tomorrow for more on the subpoenas and the issues behind them.
And the White House today immediately striking back at Democrats. White House spokeswoman Dana Perino accused the Democrats of creating what she called grand conspiracy theories that have no basis in fact. Perino said Democrats are overreaching with their concept of congressional oversight.
Ed Henry reports from the White House -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, looking at the president today, you wouldn't know that he's under siege. He was dancing and actually banging on some drums with a West African dance group in the Rose Garden. He was promoting his fight to try to wipe out malaria.
But appearances aside, this is a president facing threats from all sides. Subpoenas flying all over Capitol Hill on everything from that fired U.S. attorneys controversy, to the Republican e-mail scandal involving Karl Rove and potentially other White House aides. Now, Democratic congressman Rahm Emanuel today ripped in to the president in a speech at the Brookings Institution, charging that for this White House, "No function of the federal government is free from the influence of politics."
As you noted, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino fired right back, saying that Emanuel had woven together a conspiracy theory.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA PERINO, DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think that there's an interesting messenger today giving a speech at the Brookings Institute. It's one that you would consider reading in "The National Enquirer" rather than at a prestigious American think tank like the Brookings Institute. And I think what we have going on here is that the 100-hour congressional agenda is faltering, and in that vacuum that they decided to fall back on what is a tried and true tactic of theirs, which is creating grand conspiracy theories that have no basis in fact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Now, the next showdown will be Monday. That's likely when the president will get a chance to veto that war funding bill that's working its way through Capitol Hill.
Senior Democrats saying that they will make a big deal about the fact that the following day, on Tuesday, will be the fourth anniversary of the president's "mission accomplished" speech in which he put on that flight suit infamously. Now Democrats basically saying that they're going to make a lot about the irony of that and how the war is actually not over.
The White House insisting, though, that the Democrats are going to have to take out that withdrawal language for the president to sign this legislation -- Lou.
DOBBS: Moving to the issue of subpoenas, what is the discussion among the staff there?
HENRY: At the White House?
DOBBS: Yes.
HENRY: Well, they are still -- have still not made White House aides available for testimony. All they've done all along is said that they would make Karl Rove and other White House aides available for what the White House calls interviews, not actual sworn testimony.
As you know, the White House has not moved from where they've been for weeks now, which is to say that they would not make transcripts of any of these so-called interviews available, and that they would not make White House aides available for actual sworn testimony at this point.
They've been going back and forth with the Democrats on that. But the bottom line is, it's stalled right now, and the White House has still not made them available -- Lou.
DOBBS: Suggesting that there's great ambiguity in the reading on both the part of the Bush White House and the Democratic leadership in Congress on this issue.
HENRY: Certainly. They have not been able to come together either on the war funding bill, or on finding a way to get White House aides, key aides like Karl Rove, to testify on all these various issues. Obviously what the White House is concerned, more than anything, is that if they make these aides available on, say, the U.S. attorney matter, that's going to open the door for the Democrats bringing up Karl Rove for any number of other issues as well -- Lou.
DOBBS: Ed, thank you very much.
Ed Henry from the White House.
I'm going to turn now to Jeffrey Toobin, our senior legal analyst.
You just heard Ed Henry. It didn't -- no notes of utter defiance from the White House on the issue of subpoenas, at least to this point.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: These kind of disputes are usually worked out. There are -- ultimately, some sort of testimony is provided. But this administration is different on these issues than almost any other administration. They have been stronger in exerting the power of the presidency than certainly any presidency since Reagan, and the -- it looks like a constitutional confrontation could be in the offing over Rove, Rice, and several more of these witnesses.
DOBBS: And the issue that -- the idea of authorizing a subpoena for the Republican National Committee chairman, Mike Duncan, for testimony, what do you think about that?
TOOBIN: That one is, I think, the Democrats are on pretty strong ground there, because there's no executive privilege in the Republican National Committee. Plus, it does appear that several White House aides, including, especially Karl Rove, used e-mail accounts that were linked to the RNC, the Republican Party, rather than the White House. I don't see any ground for denying the Democrats access to those.
DOBBS: The White House e-mails or RNC e-mails or those e-mails from those aides mysteriously lost, and that raises even more questions.
Let's listen to what the Oversight Committee chairman, Congressman Henry Waxman, had to say about the RNC today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WAXMAN: The RNC has not been responsive. We have been slow- walked and stonewalled, and that is not acceptable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Not acceptable. How strongly can Chairman Waxman respond, the role of oversight here, congressional oversight?
TOOBIN: First you go to subpoenas. If subpoenas are defied or not responded to, you go to have a vote to find individuals in contempt of Congress. That potentially could be investigated. It starts to get complicated, because the investigation is sometimes conducted by the Department of Justice, so there's potential conflict there.
DOBBS: And the now departed deputy attorney general receiving a subpoena, soon to receive a subpoena of her own. This investigation of the attorney general and his conduct over the firing of these eight U.S. attorneys at the very narrowest is clearly going to move ahead.
TOOBIN: And Monica Goodling today got immunity from Congress, which means that she can't take the Fifth. She has to testify.
So, out of all of these developments, today Monica Goodling's immunity is probably most significant, because it means she is definitely going to have to take the stand and offer her version of why the U.S. attorneys were fired. Perhaps she'll have a better memory than her former boss, Alberto Gonzales.
DOBBS: One would think almost anyone would.
Thank you very much.
Jeffrey Toobin, senior legal analyst here.
Coming up next, more developments. Senator John McCain trying to restart, kick-start, help out his presidential election campaign by announcing he's running for president. Can the senator boost his low poll numbers? We'll have that report.
And Howard Dean says the media should be banned from presidential election events. What in the world is this leading Democrat thinking? The nasty media, we complicate things so much by creating public records.
And shock and outrage by a U.S. Army officer after the death of Pat Tillman in a friendly fire incident covered up in Afghanistan.
That special report coming up from the Pentagon. All the day's news still ahead.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Senator John McCain today made official what we all knew already, he's running for president. The Arizona Republican made his announcement at a news conference today in New Hampshire.
Candy Crowley is in Manchester tonight with our report -- Candy. CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the senator comes into this announcement a day after a very rocky first quarter. As you know, he has been running consistently second in the national Republican polls, and he placed third, in fact, in the money race. So, McCain has a lot of ground to catch up. He's hoping to do that with this announcement.
He is pushing his resume now, Lou, saying that he may not be the youngest candidate in the race, but he is the most experienced.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know the good and the evil in it. I know how to work with leaders who share our dreams of a freer, safer and more prosperous world, and how to stand up to those who don't.
I know how to fight. I know how to fight. And I know how to make peace. I know who I am and what I want to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: Now, McCain himself says on the Straight Talk Express, which is the name of his bus which he campaigns on throughout New Hampshire here at three stops today, says that he is not all that concerned about the polls. He believes the campaign is in a good spot.
Nonetheless, as you noted before, Lou, this is a man who has sort of announced a couple of times. It's not a surprise, his announcement today. It is a chance to reset the campaign. And that's exactly what the campaign is hoping today will do -- Lou.
DOBBS: Candy, thank you very much.
Candy Crowley from Manchester, New Hampshire.
But Senator McCain not only must convince the Republican base to support his White House bid. He also needs to reach out and to convince conservative voters as well.
And there, as Bill Schneider now reports, he may have trouble.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice over): John McCain's problem with Democrats and Liberals is well known. He supports President Bush's troop buildup in Iraq. But McCain's support has been lagging among Republicans. That can't be President Bush or Iraq.
We asked David Keene, a leading conservative, what McCain's problem is with conservatives.
DAVID KEENE, AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE UNION: It isn't that he's liberal, because he's not. SCHNEIDER: There are things conservatives like about McCain.
KEENE: Conservatives admire his biography, if you will, and his courage in many ways.
SCHNEIDER: So what's the problem?
KEENE: Conservatives don't trust him. They don't trust him for a variety of reasons. But much of it goes to the McCain-Feingold bill.
SCHNEIDER: That's the campaign finance reform law McCain co- sponsored with Russ Feingold, a leading liberal Democratic senator. Among other thing, the law bans private groups from running issue ads that promote a cause for 60 days before a general election and 30 days before a primary if the ad mentions the name of a candidate or political party. Ironically, that ban is the subject of a case being argued now before the Supreme Court.
Conservatives consider the law a violation of free speech.
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They let the campaign finance lobby take away First Amendment rights. If I'm elected president, I will fight to repeal McCain-Feingold.
SCHNEIDER: What worries conservatives is not just that they disagree with McCain on some issues, it's that he picks fights with them.
KEENE: He creates an uncomfortableness among many conservatives who think that if he were president, he would try to remake the party in a way that would exclude them from the influence they now have.
SCHNEIDER: They worry about statements like this from McCain's announcement speech...
MCCAIN: I expect us to argue over principle, but when a compromise consistent with our principles is within reach, I expect us to seize it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Will compromise lead to sellout? That's what many conservatives believe happened with the McCain-Feingold law -- Lou.
DOBBS: And as you pointed out, the high court, several justices today, expressing some skepticism about McCain-Feingold.
SCHNEIDER: That's right.
DOBBS: Thank you very much.
Bill Schneider, our senior political analyst.
And Senator McCain will be Larry King's guest tonight here on CNN, 9:00 p.m. Eastern. Well, the top two Democratic presidential candidates today criticized remarks by top Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani. Giuliani, who is leading the polls nationally, said that if a Democrat were elected president in 2008, the United States would be at risk of another terrorist attack on the scale of September 11th.
Senator Barack Obama responded, saying the serious threats to our country should not be turned into, as he put it, the punch line of another political attack.
Senator Hillary Clinton said protecting our country from terrorism, as she said, shouldn't be a Democratic fight or a Republican fight.
Well, Democratic leader Howard Dean, the head of the Democratic National Committee, today said basically ban the media and presidential candidates will speak frankly. Speaking before a bankers' conference, Dean was responding to complaints about a lack of depth and statements from presidential candidates.
Dean said, "If you want to hear anybody's true views, you have to exclude the press" from events such as the one he was attending. The Democratic National Committee tonight tells us that "Governor Dean's comment was made just in jest. Ironically, he was talking at an open press event about the challenges candidates face under constant media scrutiny in an environment that increasingly caters to sound bites over substance."
The clear implication being, I take it, Governor, that candidates are far more substantive than we superficial journalists are revealing to the American people.
Now tonight's poll.
Do you believe the president and Democratic Party are representing American citizens on the issue of illegal immigration? Yes or no?
Please cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results here later.
Coming up next, insulting remarks directed at the family of Pat Tillman, unbelievably from a U.S. Army officer.
We'll have that story.
"Corrupt" and "unethical," words being used to describe the student loan industry. We'll have a report on how deep the corruption goes, how broad the cronyism. We'll hear from the chairman of the House committee investigating the student loan program.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: New outrage tonight over remarks by a U.S. Army officer after the friendly fire death of Pat Tillman covered up in Afghanistan. Pat Tillman's mother Mary says she is appalled that the officer suggested the family is not at peace with Tillman's death because of their lack of religious faith. One top lawmaker, Congressman Henry Waxman, said the officer should be punished.
Jamie McIntyre reports now from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It came as a shock to members of Congress probing the Pat Tillman death that one Army investigator was quoted making remarks that Tillman's family found highly insulting.
MARY TILLMAN, PAT TILLMAN'S MOTHER: He said that we were -- we would never be satisfied because we're not Christians. And we're just a pain in the ass, basically. He also said that it must make us feel terrible that Pat is worm dirt.
MCINTYRE: The offending comment was posted on espn.com last summer. It suggested the Tillman family's dissatisfaction with the Army was due in part to a lack of religious faith, and it quoted Lieutenant Colonel Ralph Kazlaric (ph), who conducted the second investigation into Tillman's death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, if you're an atheist and you don't believe in anything, if you die, what is there to go to? Nothing. You are worm dirt. So for their son to die for nothing, it's pretty hard to get your head around that.
WAXMAN: Did you examine these comments as part of your investigation?
THOMAS GIMBLE, ACTING DOD INSP. GENERAL: We did not investigate those comments. I saw the comments in the paper. And frankly, I was shocked by them, too, but we didn't investigate.
BRIG. GEN. RODNEY JOHNSON, ARMY CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS: Sir, I don't know of any regulation prohibiting that, but I find it totally unacceptable.
WAXMAN: Is there anything such as conduct unbecoming a member of the United States armed services?
JOHNSON: There is such a charge as conduct unbecoming an officer, yes, sir.
WAXMAN: Yes. Well, that sounds like it's a pretty unbecoming statement for an officer to have made.
MCINTYRE: At Pat Tillman's memorial service in 2004, his younger brother acknowledged Tillman was not a religious man, but the Army would not say if he had ever declared himself an atheist.
(END VIDEOTAPE) MCINTYRE: And the Army also won't reveal the religious affiliation of Colonel Kazlaric (ph), who is now a battalion commander in Iraq. CNN tried to reach him through the Army. He was not available because he's in the war zone.
An Army spokesman says he doesn't currently face any disciplinary action for these remarks. However, he does come under sharp criticism from the DOD inspector general for his lackluster investigation of the Tillman death back in 2004 -- Lou.
DOBBS: The Army is not distinguishing itself in this case, is it?
MCINTYRE: Well, a lot of people would share that view.
DOBBS: I would hope that the generals in that building from which you're reporting would share it. I find this absolutely -- and I have to believe most Americans find this absolutely disgraceful.
This represents neither the code of the United States military, the United States Army. What in the world is going on?
MCINTYRE: Well, this was a case where this lieutenant colonel, who, again, did the second investigation, was questioned by a reporter for espn.com and was asked, why isn't the Tillman family giving up? And he offered this idea that it was perhaps that they weren't at peace because they didn't believe in an afterlife.
And that's what sparked this whole controversy. And obviously, you could see how that would be very insulting to somebody.
DOBBS: And for the United States Army, members of the United States Army to lie about the death of Pat Tillman serving his country at great sacrifice to himself, an example -- a heroic example of duty to one's country, to have the United States Army lie about it, and then one of its officers, a colonel, to speak like that of a man killed in uniform, I would hope there is a sense of outrage within the Pentagon.
Is there, Jamie?
MCINTYRE: Well, you know, I think everybody acknowledges that these remarks are, at best, insensitive and, at worst, you know, very offensive.
DOBBS: Not just about his comments, but about this entire Tillman episode.
MCINTYRE: The Army has -- the people I've talked to, they've acknowledged from the very beginning that was mishandled. They've gone to great length to talk about how they're trying to do things differently. There is an acknowledgement that that was terribly mishandled and a mistake. And the Army has put out formal statements saying that.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much. Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon.
The military today reported the death of another of our troops in Iraq, the soldier died in a non-combat incident. Eighty seven of our troops have been killed so far this month in Iraq, that's more than any month since December, 3,334 troops have been killed since the beginning of the war, 24,912 troops wounded, 11,000 of them seriously.
An army sergeant in Afghanistan has publicly complained about the military's policy on flying flags at half staff for troops killed in combat.
Sergeant Jim Wilt wrote, "I find it ironic that the flags were flown at half staff for the young men and women who were killed at Virginia Tech, yet it," our flag "is never lowered for the death of a U.S. service member."
Sergeant Wilt said if they were lowered for just one day after the death of a service member, it would show the American people care. How about tomorrow?
Up next, corruption and cronyism in the student loan industry. The House Education Committee demands answers from the Bush administration.
Committee chairman Congressman George Miller joins us, also radio talk show hosts blasting the Bush administration and Democratic leadership of Congress for trying to impose a massive illegal alien amnesty on American citizens.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Illegal aliens commit a crime the minute they answer this country. That's the part of illegal that Washington just doesn't seem to get.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: And deadly tornadoes smash through communities on both sides of our border with Mexico. At least 10 people killed. We'll have that report and more. Stay with us. We're coming right back.'
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: At least 10 people were killed when powerful and deadly twisters slammed into the Texas, Mexico border over night. Seven people were killed in the southwestern Texas border town of Eagle Pass. Four of those killed in a storm in a mobile home that was lifted from its foundation and slammed into an elementary school. More than 80 people in the community were seriously injured. Three people were also killed by that same tornado across the border in Mexico.
Tens of billions of bees have disappeared all across this country over the past several months. No one seems to know why. The problem is indeed a serious one. Bees pollinate $15 billion worth of fruit and other crops annually. About 60 bee experts, including commercial growers, researchers, government scientists, met in Maryland yesterday, concluding that the problem is, indeed, real, but they simply do not know what its causes are, or how widespread it may become.
It could be several weeks before the research group can take its next step, which would be to go to Congress to ask for more funds to investigate what is, by all measures, a worsening crisis.
We turn now to Wall Street where it was a record day for the Dow Jones Industrials. The Dow jumping 136 points, closing above 13,000 for the first time ever. While the Dow was closing at a record high, however, the dollar was falling to near an all-time low against the Euro. The Euro today climbing to just over $1.36 in late afternoon trading.
Millions of students rely on loans to finance their increasingly expensive college educations. They often depend on advice from their universities when choosing a loan. But as Christine Romans now reports, these students are trusting a system that is riddled with corruption.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A House hearing room, echoing with words like corrupt, unethical, improper, bribes, abuse and cronyism.
REP. GEORGE MILLER, CHAIRMAN, EDUCATION COMMITTEE: We're talking about a system that is spinning out of control.
ROMANS: A system, he says, that puts profit ahead of students.
An investigation by New York's attorney general has resulted in a dozen settlements so far.
ANDREW CUOMO, N.Y. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I believe these are kickbacks. We have issued subpoenas and I believe this is illegal activity. Make no mistake about it. I believe it violates consumer protection laws. I believe it violates business law. And, you're right, it is offensive.
ROMANS: A culture of conflict, springing from the exploding demand for money to go to college.
REP. JOSEPH COURTNEY, (D) CT: Going to college now is like buying a house in terms of the size of the cost. That has just really raised the stakes for everybody.
ROMANS: Two thirds of students now graduate with student loans. Ninety percent of students choose their school's preferred lender. Cuomo found cases where student loan companies bought their way on the list, adding to the cost of the loan.
The Department of Education, he says, is "asleep at the switch." While there is bipartisan support for reform, there was a Republican call for caution. REP. HOWARD MCKEON, (R) CA: We must be careful not to overreach as Congress does all too often. But we do need to restore trust in the system.
ROMANS: He says private loans mean more choices for students.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS (on camera): The Education Department this week formed a task force to look into the conflicts between lenders and universities. Education Secretary Margaret Spellings will testify before the House Education Committee on May 10th. Critics say the department's oversight of the industry has been so weak and its own ranks so tied to the industry that a task force is simply too little much too late, Lou.
DOBBS: Christine, thank you very much. We're joined now by one of the chief critics of what has been transpiring, the chairman of the House Education and Labor Committee, the committee chairman, George Miller. Congressman Miller. Good to have you with us.
MILLER: Thank you, Lou. Good to be with you.
DOBBS: This is a remarkable situation. Where has the federal government been as all of this has been occurring in the student loan industry, the student loan program?
MILLER: In the kindest terms, they've been asleep at the wheel. In less kind terms, they may have been an enabler of many of these corrupt practices that we now see coming to light as a result of Attorney General Andrew Cuomo's investigation and as they press into these investigations into these activities by student loan lenders, people on the university campuses and people within the department. It's a very, very rough triangle of corruption in the number of instances.
DOBBS: Now, of course, the federal government puts forward extraordinary amount of money to subsidize private lenders in this student loan program that was a government program decades ago. This is putting tax payer money at risk. As well as creating enormous cost for students and their families. Correct?
MILLER: Well, I think that's clearly the case. Families are struggling with the cost of college as you've reported, the cost of college is going up faster than everything else in the economy almost.
And now what we see is that they've been forced to pay a corruption tax, they've seen the cost of college driven up because of these corrupt relationships between lending officers, universities, lending agencies, banks and others within various elements of the student lending program.
And it's just outrageous, when we know how hard students struggle to pay back those loans, how hard their parents sacrifice to help them borrow money, to go to college, to see this kind of activity layered over the top of this program that was designed for the parents and for the students.
DOBBS: Chairman Miller, let's look at some of the facts here. Over the past decade, student loan debt, as you well know, has simply ballooned. Taking a look, if we may, two-thirds of our college students will graduate with debt.
The median debt for each graduating student in this country is $19,300. Debt levels for graduating students have risen 58 percent over the past decade and that is adjusted for inflation. And more than 15 percent of parents took out federal plus loans in 2004. I mean, this is -- in addition, as you point out, the sky rocketing cost of higher education in this country. I mean, how do you account for such indebtedness?
MILLER: Well, you count for indebtedness that the cost has continued to go up. This used to be supported by grants. It used to be supported by families pulling their resources together.
But the cost of college has outstripped the normal resources of the normal middle class families. But those families still have the same hopes and aspirations for their children. And as a result of that, they're willing to go into debt. What they're not willing to do is to pay for corrupt activities in the very program that they were led to believe by the universities, by others that this was to their advantage.
DOBBS: Congressman George Miller, chairman of the committee. We thank you very much for being here. Pleasure talking to you.
MILLER: Thank you. Thank you.
DOBBS: Up next here, criminal charges may be filed against a 13- year-old student who left a ham bone near a group of Muslim students. What in the world are they doing up in Maine? We'll have that story for you and a few thoughts.
And radio talk show hosts from all around the country are in Washington to broadcast a message of no amnesty for illegal aliens. We'll have that special report. People are in Washington actually encouraging congressmen and senators to represent the American people. I wonder how that will work out.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: No amnesty for illegal aliens being heard on radio stations all across the country again today. Radio talk show hosts continuing their broadcast from the nation's capital. The radio hosts trying to rally opposition to legislation that would give amnesty that to untold millions of illegal aliens.
Lisa Sylvester has our report from radio row.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Miami radio host Joyce Kaufman had a unique idea. If her listeners couldn't come to Washington, then she wanted them to send their soles. Or in other words, their shoes. They sent them in by the thousands, with a simple message for lawmakers.
JOYCE KAUFMAN, WTFL MIAMI: Illegal aliens commit a crime the minute they enter this country. That's the part of illegal that Washington just doesn't seem to get.
SYLVESTER: The three-day event brings together radio hosts who share a concern over illegal immigration, but it's also an opportunity for activists, experts and even radio listeners to mingle. Among the stories being told is that of Amy Courtlang. She was 22 when she was killed by an illegal alien who had several previous DUI charges.
FRANCISCA GALVAN, FAMILY FRIEND: He was drunk four times until he finally killed her. I have two daughters and I feel like she is my daughter too.
SYLVESTER: Radio host Steve Gill tells of a similar story in Nashville, a couple killed by an illegal alien who had been in and out of jail nine times and never deported.
STEVE GILL, WLAC, TENNESSEE: We're seeing the same thing all over the country as people are getting into the judicial system, but we're just letting them go. It's been this catch and release system that ultimately we pay the price in blood.
SYLVESTER: Michelle Dallacroce is the founder of Mothers Against Illegal Aliens. Aside from the safety issue, she worries about the negative impact on schools in phoenix.
MICHELLE DALLACROCE, MOTHERS AGAINST ILLEGAL ALIENS: In general I see that schools are overcrowded. Teachers are stressed out. The teachers are required to learn Spanish. And if they don't learn Spanish, they can lose their job.
SYLVESTER: Many expressed a concern that American middle class families are being shut out in favor of cheap, imported labor. Ted Hayes, an activist from Los Angeles, says he has seen it happen again and again.
TED HAYES, ACTIVIST: When they came in originally and undercut the wage standards. For us to get those jobs back, we would have to go in and undercut them.
SYLVESTER: The squeezing of Americans, the loss of jobs. These radio listeners believe it will only become worse with an amnesty.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER (on camera): And, Lou, we are here on radio row. We have three stations, radio stations right now that are broadcasting. Out of Huntsville, Alabama. Howie Carr from Boston and to my left here we have a station out of Dallas, John David. So they'll be broadcasting here until midnight.
But I have to tell you, the radio broadcasters did not just spend their entire time here at t he Phoenix Park Hotel, they got out on Capitol Hill, knocked on some doors and it seems their efforts may have been paying off.
One representative, Devin Nunez (ph) from California has agreed to co-sponsor a resolution, giving imprisoned Border Patrol agents, Ramos and Compean and pardon, so he has signed on on that. He is the first Hispanic congressman to do just that.
And the Border Patrol agents, their families also got support from an unlikely source. Last night, the actor, Robert Duvall stopped off at a reception in their honor. Lou?
DOBBS: And I know they've raised a lot of money as well for the -- for Ramos and Compean, their defense and providing for their families.
It's taken some great effort and great courage on the part of those radio talk show hosts to get some attempted representation in that city for the people listening to them. We salute them here. Lisa, thank you very much. Lisa Sylvester from radio row.
Federal authorities in Chicago today charged 22 people with providing false identification to illegal aliens, 12 of those charged are now in custody. The other 10 are fugitives. At least four of them are believed to be in Mexico.
And according to the U.S. attorney in Chicago, they belong to a ring that produces about 15,000 fake I.D. documents a year. It operates in this country and Mexico, generating millions of dollars in profits.
And what do they mean when they say undocumented immigrants? Illegal alien activists, by the way, protested those arrests, today, the activists accusing federal authorities of using excessive force in making arrests.
A reminder now to vote in our poll. Do you believe the president and Democratic Party are representing American citizens on the issue of illegal immigration? Yes or no, please cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results coming up here in just a few moments.
Up next, the prosecution wrapping up its case against a former engineer accused of giving sensitive U.S. military information and technology to communist China. That special report up next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Prosecutors are wrapping up their case in trial of alleged communist Chinese spy Chi Mak. The naturalized U.S. citizen is accused of passing top secret restricted military technology to the Chinese. As Casey Wian now reports, he may have helped the Chinese modernize its military.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Prosecutors presented evidence that former Power Paragon engineer Chi Mak may have been working for the communist Chinese military for more than three decades.
They showed the jury notes found in Mak's home about the movements of U.S. war ships and submarines in Hong Kong Harbor dating back to 1971, that was 31 years before Mak, his brother, their wives and a nephew were arrested and charged with giving sensitive military secrets to the People's Republic. Mak attended college in Shanghai and joined the People's Liberation Army in the 1960s. He moved to the United States in the late '70s, becoming a citizen in 1985.
JAMES LILLEY, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO CHINA: They go after people with ties in China, with loyalty to the Mainland and they say, this is not avoiding any great American system. This is not unpatriotic. This is just doing business. This is science and technology. You're helping the old Motherland.
WIAN: A naval investigator talked about surveillance video from Mak's home where he and his wife copied documents about submarine and other technology on to three computer disks, investigators say Mak then gave the disks to his brother, who encrypted them, but was caught by the FBI before he could board a plane to China.
The Navy investigators also testified Mak admitted passing other restricted information to China since 1983. Defense attorneys say confession is suspect.
RON KAYE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The government had a five-hour videotaped interview with my client in which none of these supposedly damaging statements were made. Later on they interviewed him without any videotape, without having him signed off on any document and that's when he supposedly makes this damaging statement that he's loyal to the People's Republic of China.
WIAN: Mak's attorney's claim the information he passed was either already public or he didn't know it was restricted from foreign distribution.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN (on camera): Mak will have the opportunity to present his side of the story very soon. The last prosecution witness is on the stand as we speak. Mak's attorneys say it will be up to Chi Mak to decide if he will take the stand to testify in his own defense. Lou?
DOBBS: Casey, thank you very much. Casey Wian.
Coming up at the top of the hour, THE SITUATUION ROOM. And Wolf Blitzer. Wolf?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Thanks, Lou. We're going to have details of a stunning new claim by a top Taliban commander, did Osama bin Laden personally plan an assassination attempt on Vice President Dick Cheney? Also, Democratic presidential candidates firing back at their Republican counterpart, Rudy Giuliani. We're going to find out what he said that has them so outraged.
Plus, growing concern the Iraqi government may be on the verge of collapse. We'll get the latest from Pulitzer Prize winning "New York Times" journalist John Burns. All that, Lou, coming up right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
DOBBS: Wolf, thank you. Well, turning to the state of Maine, what are those people up there thinking? Maine state attorney general is considering pressing hate-crime charges against an 13-year-old middle student who left a ham bone near a group of Muslim students.
The superintendent of Lewiston schools, Leon Leveck (ph) has suspended the boy. Now the boy could be hit with a $5,000 fine and ordered to stay away from the Muslim students.
Assistant Attorney General Tom Harnett says the state simply wants to teach young people tolerance. I have another suggestion for you, Mr. Attorney General and Superintendent Leveck. Why don't you, Mr. Superintendent, teach tolerance in your school? And quit wasting everyone's time with this nonsense and let the attorney general deal with serious, serious issues?
The fact of the matter is, the education that could come from this experience would be beneficial to all of the students and it's really time to exercise some judgment in our schools. And Superintendent Leveck, you've just taken us a further step away from showing mature, adult reasoned judgment.
Turning now to the results of our poll, the question is, do you believe the president and Democratic Party are representing American citizens on the issue of illegal immigration? We'll have the results coming right up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A powerful program tonight on PBS. A special edition of Bill Moyers' journal called "Buying the War." The program exploring the role of the press and the Bush administration's marketing of the Iraq War. And that special Bill Moyers journal tonight 9:00 Eastern on PBS stations.
Now the results of our poll, 97 percent of you do not believe the president and Democratic Party are representing American citizens on the issue of illegal immigration.
Let's take a look at some of your thoughts. David in Florida wrote in to say, "Dear Lou, I'm sure the majority of Americans are against sending federal aid to cities that protect illegal aliens. The problem is George W. Bush and his employer, corporate America, are all for it. Since all of us, including every village idiot in America realizes who runs this once great nation, we might as well cut out the middleman and have the president of Mexico or the CEO of one of the American corporations sitting behind the desk in the Oval Office."
And Elaine in Florida, "When education does not meet the requirements of the federal government, funds are withheld. What makes sanctuary cities different?"
And Bob in Illinois. "Federal aid should be stopped to cities and states with sanctuary laws protecting illegal aliens and the officials should be removed for not living up to their oaths of office."
Send us your thoughts to loudobbs.com. For more of my thoughts about the Bush administration, the leadership of the Democratic Party on their efforts to push through massive illegal alien amnesty despite the wishes of American citizens, go to loudobbs.com and read our column.
Thank you for being with us tonight. Please join us here tomorrow. Among our guests, oversight committee chairman, Congressman Henry Waxman, ranking Republican, Congressman Thomas Davis.
For all of us here, good night from New York. THE SITUATION ROOM begins now with Wolf Blitzer. Wolf?
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