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CNN IN THE MONEY

The DOW at 13,000 and What It Means For You; Protecting Your Identity; America's Trailing in the Sciences; Pay Gap Between Men and Women

Aired April 29, 2007 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey I say A for effort. Go ahead, Mr. President.
All right. A look at the top stories in a moment, IN THE MONEY is next, here is a preview.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks. Coming up on IN THE MONEY see what pushed the DOW to 13,000 and what it means for you.

Plus tips on protecting your identity from a con man gone straight.

And later find out what it means for the economy that America's trailing in the sciences. All that and more after a quick check of these headlines.

WHITFIELD: Now in the news. In Karbala, Iraq a suspected suicide bomber targets people while they prey at least 52 people dead, more than 80 injured near two Shiite shrines, it is the second bombing in Karbala this month.

At least 28 people dead, 44 wounded, all victims of a suicide bombing in Pakistan's northwest Frontier Providence. Among the wounded, Pakistan's interior minister and his son. So far, no claim of responsibility for the attack.

A top U.S. state department official has resigned after admitting he was a client of an alleged high-priced call girl ring in the nation's capital. The state department official confirms to CNN that Randall Tobias stepped down because of the revelation that he used the escort service.

We'll update the top stories at the bottom of the hour. Now time for IN THE MONEY.

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to IN THE MONEY, I'm Ali Velshi.

ROMANS: I'm Christine Romans. Coming up on today's program see what it means for America's money now that the DOW hit the 13,000 mark.

VELSHI: Plus, what a reformed con artist can tell you about keeping your identity safe.

ROMANS: And see if you earning what you deserve as we check the pay gap between men and women.

VELSHI: Now the one place where the gap is, there's no gap, is when you are trading stocks on the stock market. Thirteen thousand, just a number in some ways, but it really is, it's a surge. It's a strong market. It's earnings results that show that people continue to buy things from America's businesses.

ROMANS: Dow up what, 1,000 points in six months, up 5 percent from that horrific rout in February. The market doing well, you mentioned earnings, (INAUDIBLE) multinationals, the conditions for the multi national companies are incredible. They are seeing great overseas growth, there's a weak dollar. There are a lot things in line for them to really do well and we're seeing these numbers come in. They're really phenomenal, some of these numbers.

VELSHI: We saw earnings from the oil companies, of course. No surprise there. We saw Apple saying that they sold more than 10 million iPods in the last three years. Microsoft.

ROMANS: Pepsi had good number, Amazon. Go down the list it was incredible. Someone on this program earlier this year, when everyone was belly aching about the Dow falling apart in February said, listen, we'll see 13,000 before you know it. A young man named Ned Riley.

VELSHI: Ned Riley, who is the chief investment strategist at Riley Asset Management joins us now from Boston, Ned you said it at the beginning of the year. You keep telling people don't worry about it, you even think this market is going further. The question people are asking me what do I do now? Do I sell or do I buy?

NED RILEY, CHIEF INVESTMENT STRATEGIST, RILEY ASSET MANAGEMENT: No, I'd buy right now and, Christine thank you for that complement. The young man, I'll go a long way with that one.

ROMANS: I'll take it.

RILEY: No. I think people should be continuing to average in to the market. You know, people are too my optic, they are to short term oriented and they listen too much to Wall Street. Wall Street keeps crying about the fact that we need big corrections to move further. I don't believe that has to be the case. And as long as they continue on that kind of thinking, then I feel really good about the market. The more the skeptics are out there the better off investors are to put their money in. Old saying, buy when they're down and when everybody's complaining.

ROMANS: Yes, but you know close your eyes and buy the highs to I mean we are right here at 13,000, that old saying on Wall Street, but GDP came in on Friday less than people expected. So much of this profit growth is coming from overseas, we're hearing a lot how the United States isn't growing as much as other places and these big companies have been sort of downsizing their responsibilities on benefits, they have been buying back their own stock. Not necessarily investing in their U.S. operations. Are those reasons to be cautious or at least to keep in the back of your mind? RILEY: Well Christine you bring out some really good points there. My only position on that is that companies are learning to live in a much different environment, a slower growth environment. It isn't just organic growth in the tops eye. It is growth via cutting cost, growth via buying acquisitions and cutting costs out of those. The dollar, weak dollars helping multi-national companies. Many of them obviously have more than 50 percent of their revenue coming from overseas. So that is actually a benefit, not a detriment.

And when you put it all together in terms of a companies focus, this still is going to be focusing on labor, and more labor costs. I, found fortunately for the American worker, may mean less, but the companies I think are going to maintain this record level of profitability, almost a record in terms of return on equity and an absolute record in profits. I don't know what people are talking about, 13,000. We are at record highs in all those and I don't see a recession in sight because the Fed's on the ball.

VELSHI: What else could derail this market? Are there things that can derail this market? High gas prices, lower home prices, home sales? Inflation, what can set this thing off?

RILEY: Well, basically, I'm going to say it. Too much growth in the economy is obviously going to bring on inflation. I think the inflation number for the first quarter is history. That's what the market is saying, saying on Friday. Clearly, if we go forward, the slower the growth, the more it will prompt the Federal Reserve to take a look at interest rates. Watch the ten-year Treasury bond yields. If they start creeping down, and today, on Friday there were 457, I believe, people are looking for 5 percent and 5.5 percent. So the bottom line is long term interest rates are starting to indicate the economy is going to be slowing even further. That means high gasoline price, the housing market's going to cause problems undermine the growth but the bottom line is slower growth is going to get lower inflation, which will get lower interest rates which definitely isn't going to help the stock market.

ROMANS: Ned we keep seeing the consumer, whether it pretty well -- you know you got record levels of household debt, Seven 1/4's of a negative savings rate, gas prices, some say they are going to reach you know almost maybe to $4 a gallon this summer. But the consumer just keeps on charging. Right?

RILEY: It does and the strange thing about this, Christine, they have leveraged up obviously in the last seven or eight quarters. But the net worth of households has also grown very rapidly. Even though we have had a retrachment (ph) in prices, we have $53 trillion of net worth in the consumer's pockets. When they start to look at the daily bills and things like that, I understand the leverage. But remember, those savings number that you see do not include home equity or retirement plans. So the bottom line is, the consumer's actually better off financially than, say, three to five or seven years ago.

VELSHI: All right. Ned, I've been sitting around waiting to put my money in to something. The market you say continues to go up. What do I invest in? RILEY: Basically for the investor that doesn't have time to look every day at their stocks and research them, I still believe in ETF, Exchange Traded Funds like index funds. And for people that want to at least do as well as the professionals, or maybe do better. You know, a Spider wishes that S&P 500 Index Fund will simulate the market. So if the market's up 5 percent year to date, the Spider going to be up 5 percent and not to worry about the Intel's versus the Microsoft's versus the IBM's versus the Coke. The bottom line is I would buy ETFs, have diversity in the portfolio, like buy some QQQQs which is the Nasdaq 100 top stocks or if they feel adventuresome, buy financial stocks with what I call the XLF, basically, financial stocks in a Spider RNF, exchange rated funds.

ROMANS: Ned do you buy them right here even after a record week in the Dow? You buy them now or you wait for a pullback?

RILEY: No, I would put my money in as I do, as I've done historically. Basically, put it in a more systematic basis.

ROMANS: Right.

RILEY: When the market's down, it's great. When the market's up -- yeah. You've got the Dow cost average. I've done this too many years and I haven't found anybody that's consistently picked bottoms and tops in markets ever.

ROMANS: All right. Ned Riley.

VELSHI: Till after the game. Ned thanks a million. Always good to have you out here, putting your neck on the line. We'll be happy to tell people when you get right which is a lot of the time.

ROMANS: And when you get it wrong --

VELSHI: We'll tell them that too. Ned Riley is the chief investment strategist at Riley Asset Management in Boston. You know what's neat, is Ned always talks about the fact that we talk about gas prices every spring and going up to $4. There are forces that could make $3 gas something that we're not worrying about because we're worrying about $4 gas, $3 gas could end up looking like a bargain for you. So we're going to talk about that and we are also going to see where your salary stands as we learn about the gender pay gap. Stay with us on IN THE MONEY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROMANS: Four dollars a gallon gas, that is what some people are worried about. How big a deal is that?

VELSHI: Well you know Ned doesn't think it's a big deal, but America consumes more gasoline every day than it produces. The refineries are theoretically working at full tilt except keep getting shut down by little fires and things like that.

ROMANS: One of the top stories on CNNMONEY.com this week is all about the possibility of gas hitting $4 a gallon some time soon. CNN.com --

VELSHI: MONEY.com.

ROMANS: Allen Wastler is here with that.

ALLEN WASTLER, CNNMONEY.COM: That was a big clicker that was our headline. You know get ready for $4 a gallon gas.

VELSHI: Well that will do it.

WASTLER: And people just click, and they just piled in to that. It comes down to it's all about supply and demand. We've had inventories going down a little bit and some refinery problems. Then as some experts -- some, not all saying you're going to see $4 a gallon gas this summer. Particularly in you live on the west coast like California, Washington, Oregon, Nevada.

VELSHI: We are already paying higher --

WASTLER: Already paying more.

VELSHI: So the government said by May we'll hit about $2.87, national average. We're already there. This possum thing, earlier --

ROMANS: I didn't mean --

VELSHI: Two separate incidents in L.A. one, a possum got in and another one a raccoon, and they sort of affected a refinery and gas prices went up in that market.

ROMANS: Somewhere about a possum and --

VELSHI: This is how tight our --

WASTLER: It is very tight. Now, some people point out you know, they see the dooms sayers saying $4 gas. If it's starts reaching that level, you will see a ramp-up in production, they will figure out some way to squeeze out more gas for people and that will bring prices down. Nevertheless, it's a big issue for a lot of people.

ROMANS: Every year, though. We sat here a year ago; we said we are going to have $3 a gallon now. And Americans just keep filling up.

WASTLER: I think we should just cut to the chase. Put in a tax to make it $4 a gallon right now. You saw us flirting with $3 all of a sudden we got a burst in hybrid production, we got a burst in ethanol production, oh my goodness the market works!

VELSHI: All right. So this cost people real money, expensive gas costs people real money. The other thing that Ned was saying, is it real money or isn't it? But home prices --

WASTLER: Ooh. There was bad news.

ROMANS: America's biggest asset. WASTLER: America's biggest asset and we just got the numbers from Arch this week, that was another big clicker on the Web site. Down, worst drop, worst monthly drop in 18 years.

VELSHI: This is for existing home sales.

WASTLER: Existing home sales. Then you got even more bad news. The housing component of the consumer confidence survey it went down to the GDP number we got. It went down. A whole point off just because of the housing slump, so you're seen that -- and that s real value for people. Your home right? Your home, you put a lot of faith in it.

ROMANS: This is a big deal this week; I mean the big (INAUDIBLE). I mean things are still good for merger conditions, for companies even though --

WASTLER: Oh, yeah.

VELSHI: I got crushed on this story this week, because I did it and everybody who was around me said, who cares? What is this? Some bank is buying some other bank. Neither of which anybody in America knows about.

WASTLER: But you know what gave it a nice little pop? When all of a sudden you had ABN Amro who is doing a deal with Barkley, the fine British bank. OK? We're going to dump Lasalle to Bank of America and that will be our poison pill, because we're worried about the Scots! The Royal Bank of Scotland decided to make -- you saw the clicks because it got real dicey. In fact I think we have a shot of one of the Scottish banking executives. There it is! You may take our debt market, but you'll never take ABM!

VELSHI: This is -- one way or the other, obvious. If not the biggest banking deal in history, it is over $100 billion right now they're talking about. What does this mean, does this mean that if you're invested in bank stocks, your stocks might go up, because people are going to be -- banks are going to be taking each other over?

WASTLER: If you're in overseas bank stocks, because that is where you are seeing a lot of the consolidation. But some people are arguing you need to watch this merger, because if Barclay's win, it means consolidation might go up. But if the Scot's win, they're working with a Belgian group and a group from Spain. If they get it they're going to, bang, bust it up, share all the different pieces, which argues for more regionalization.

ROMANS: Let me ask you about earnings quickly. Because about six months ago I noticed when it was garbage day, when it was cardboard day on my street, I walked down the street and couldn't believe the Mac boxes along the streets in Parkville, Brooklyn. It was crazy. Then I see the Apple earnings. Huh.

WASTLER: Apple earnings came out.

ROMANS: People are buying these products. WASTLER: And up and up and up and they had an increase of 88 percent. And the Macs are going up; too, they are becoming a computer company again. Oh my goodness. And that was a big clicker on our site too, people piling into that. Also piling in to the XCFO of Apple saying that Steve Jobs knew about all this.

ROMANS: That's going to be a --

VELSHI: Nothing ever -- you know, who? Who's going to - risk to whom? Nobody ever sells their Apple stock!

ROMANS: I know. I know somebody who but it at $2.

ROMANS: Two bucks, $100 this week.

ROMANS: Why would sell it now if you bought it at $2?

VELSHI: All right. Allen good to see you.

WASTLER: Take care.

ROMANS: Coming up after the break, don't let an ad tell you where to put your money. We will have tips on how to choose your bank.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: I shut by bank account down after 13 years.

ROMANS: Why?

VELSHI: I had it with my bank, and they didn't care.

ROMANS: It Takes 13 years?

VELSHI: No it took several months.

ROMANS: That is impressive.

VELSHI: A couple month and they didn't care. I kept saying is there anybody I can talk to about the fact I've been with this bank 13 years?

ROMANS: You don't have to say what bank it is. I've hopped around to three different banks because I was so irritated with them.

VELSHI: The irony is that you look at the ads and you see them everywhere. Banks and financial institutions are apparently very competitive to get your business. Mine apart from that, but generally they are.

ROMANS: Fundamental business decision you can make. The first thing you got to do before you talk about what to do with your money, how to invest your money. We're going to talk about how to get the best deals from your bank. Ellen McGirt is here she is a senior writer at Fast Company.

ELLEN MCGIRT, SENIOR WRITER, FAST COMPANY: Thank you.

ROMANS: I have had a terrible time with people's titles today. I'm very sorry. I got your name right though.

MCGIRT: It doesn't matter.

ROMANS: What are some of the tips on how to choose the right bank? There are so many choices, so many ads.

MCGIRT: I know.

ROMANS: You see the big star with what kind of -- you know, what do you do first?

MCGIRT: You have to think about what your actual needs are. I think you did the absolutely right thing. I've had the same bank since college, 75, 80 years now. As it changed in carnations I've actually gotten good customer service and new features. I travel a lot so I am looking for something international, get to the ATMs. A small business owner or an entrepreneur that has difficulty documenting your income, a community bank might actually be a good choice for you.

As you mentioned banks are becoming more competitive. So because of the cost of technology is so much cheaper you can have good Web tools, good security, good Web site. All kinds of banks are available to us. But innesha (ph) means it takes 13 years before you go, banks notice.

VELSHI: My bank has been giving no favors for years. But I thought there was something about staying with a bank for a long time so that they would say, this is a really good client. We want to make sure he's happy.

MCGIRT: No. I can tell you from years of working a customer service expert and a consumer columnist, people are getting pained and feed to death and being treated with no respect. This is the age of the consumer. You need to walk and you need to be very aggressive. Shopping for a bank, what people end up doing is cobbling together a group of financial institutions that meet their needs. Checking and savings in one place, a high-yield savings account at one of the invisible Internet banks, which are just great these days. Your brokerage account some place else.

ROMANS: Credit union even.

MCGIRT: Credit unions are great. There are more and more of us that have access without realizing it. We are shopping for mortgages competitively. The Internet makes it so much easier to keep track.

VELSHI: So the idea that you've got your bank account and your savings at the same bank to switch them between accounts and you want your mortgage with the same bank. I tell people that about mortgages. Forget who you bank with, put it out there and get the best deal you can on a mortgage. Doesn't matter who.

MCGIRT: It is gone the way of attention my friend, it is every consumer for themselves and there's a lot of protections out there, which are great. Safety is better, and being more organized, using the Internet to keep yourself organized means you get to check your statements more often, which is, more likely to catch a glitch or a problem. You've got a very short window of time --

ROMANS: What irritates me.

MCGIRT: Thirty days.

ROMANS: Are the fees. And I think a lot of people don't realize the fees that they're paying as soon as you drop below a certain level, if you write more than a certain number of checks. There are so many choices out there; I feel we shouldn't have to pay all these fees.

MCGIRT: I knew you were you going to say that. You're absolutely right. We shouldn't have to pay all these fees but do. It's one of the coughs of having a very expensive, big mega banks who are trying to be competitive and always offering the teaser rate, because the cost of doing business is quite high for them.

ROMANS: Sounds like one-stop shopping, remember when they changed banking rules, you can have everything in one place.

MCGIRT: You can, I think that's a very good point as banks become more aggressive trying to get everything from our insurance business to our brokerage business to our banking business. We're paying for everything. From every commercial, every bell and whistle, every box and gizmo that comes our way. Coddling together good services with people you know and can trust and also being a good consumer. Standing up for yourself.

ROMANS: Don't be afraid to walk.

MCGIRT: You can negotiate. If you can't get someone on the phone that can help you, absolutely walk.

VELSHI: Nobody at the bank cares that I left. Amazing. Thirteen years later.

ROMANS: I cannot think -- a customer service line, I didn't even talk to somebody, I couldn't even have a person-to-person conversation!

VELSHI: Everyday I hope I get home and there's a letter from someone saying we understand after all these years you've left the bank and we would like to know what's wrong. No. Uh-uh.

MCGIRT: Try a community bank.

VELSHI: Where they know my name, a place where everybody knows my name.

MCGIRT: The Bank of Cheer, everyone thinks that they're being gobbled up by the big guys, 200 community banks open last year. I mean this is really an interesting trend for the smaller depositors, for small and medium sized businesses.

ROMANS: A big lash.

MCGIRT: Well, I think it is also as things get bigger and more disconnected isn't it nice to think that your dollar is like a wonderful life bank? Everything is actually in the community. It can be very satisfying. Like slow food for banking.

VELSHI: Good to see you.

ROMANS: Thank you so much for coming by.

MCGIRT: Thank you for having me.

ROMANS: Thank you. Coming up on IN THE MONEY a former con man tells you how to out think an identity thief.

Plus, why so few Americans are going in to sciences and why it's cause for concern.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Welcome back. You've seen the movie "Catch Me If You Can" a few years ago?

ROMANS: I've seen it.

VELSHI: Frank Abagnale based on a real character. One of those movies that you know it's based on a real character, but when you watch it, you kind of don't feel like it is because it seems like something made for a movie.

ROMANS: This guy was an amazing to be able to steal people's identities and identity theft; my grandpa had his identity stolen.

VELSHI: I don't know anybody who has but I report on it all the time.

ROMANS: It is an incredible story. Interesting to know how he can give you advice on how to get your identity stolen when he was stealing people's identity.

VELSHI: And he was, he made a name for himself, or in the case of the movie, several names for himself, pretending to be other people. Over the course of his career as a con artist, which was featured in the movie "Catch Me if you Can," Abbott Neil cashed $2.5 million dollars in fraudulent checks and that was in the late '60s. He posed as a pilot, a pediatrician, a college professor and attorney, all of this before he was 21 years old.

Eventually he was caught and sentenced to 12 years in prison. Today Abbott Neil serves as a consultant to the FBI on identity theft issues. He has a new book out called "Stealing Your Life." I caught up with him earlier this week and asked him how much easier is to steal someone's identity today than back when he was doing?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANK ABAGNALE, AUTHOR, "STEALING YOUR LIFE:" Probably 4,000 times easier today than when I did it. Printing checks required a printing press, color separations, typesetting. Today you open a laptop, you pick a company logo, you put it on a check, you go to an office supply store, buy check paper and print the check out. The risk, I went to prison for a 12-year sentence, today I probably would end up with community service or restitution or nothing. The risk is very minimal compared to what it was back when I did these things.

VELSHI: The impression I have is that the chance of being a victim of identity theft or having your credit card number stolen is a whole lot less to do with you and how you maintain your life and a whole lot more to do with your employer, retailer, the government losing your information. We hear of laptops being stolen with thousands of people's identities and information on it. Where does the danger really lie?

ABAGNALE: On both sides. I mean, one, we give away too much information. It we go a store and write a check and leave the check there at the store, on the check is your name and address, phone number, the bank's name and address, your account number, routing number, signature and if the store clerk wrote your license number across the front of the check, nine states your Social Security number, next, date of birth. You don't get that check back because of trucation (ph). So you don't know what happened to the check. Anyone who saw the check has enough information to access your bank account and become you.

VELSHI: Interestingly, it's not a particularly sophisticated crime, while the technology enables anyone to do it, you can actually, with little information, get everything you need to steal my identity?

ABAGNALE: Absolutely. For example, say that you wrote down a phone number at a pay phone because were you calling a friend. You called information, you got the number, you left the number by the phone and left. If I pick up that phone number with the area code I can reverse it on my laptop, get the actual, physical address of your friend, then go to the land title records for that county. Find out where they have their mortgage, which means where they probably bank, get their bank account number, get their Social Security number, get their date of birth. In less than 30 minutes I know enough about your friend to become your friend. I mean it that is as simple as it is. Like counting one, two, and three.

VELSHI: How do you deal with this when it happens to you? Where's your first phone call? According to your book, the police are not all that likely to help you?

ABAGNALE: No. You do want to file a police report, and you want to go ahead and notify the credit bureau to either put a freeze on your account or tell them you've been victimized, someone has stolen your identity and your credit so they'll freeze your account for 90 days. The thing you really need to do is buy yourself a good shredder. I preserve shredders that paper turns paper in to microchips of paper called the micro cut shredder. Most ribbon shredder, crisscross shredders can be put back today and read. Micro cut shredders cannot, they're all the same price. If you buy one, buy one that works.

Use a monitoring service, there are lots of them, but if you buy one they are about $10 a month. You have to ask the two important questions. Do you monitor all three credit bureaus, Equifax Experian and Transunion? And do you notify me in real time? If they only monitor one credit bureau or they notify you 24 hours later, they send you a letter and you get four days later, notify you quarterly, that's worthless. I need to know that somebody is in Macy's this afternoon buying a big screen TV with my credit and I need to know it while they're in the store. I want a monitoring service that alerts me in real time immediately that someone's attempting to get credit in my name.

VELSHI: But even if it's 24 hours or four days, or three months, according to your book, that's a lot faster than most realize they've been victims?

ABAGNALE: Most never realize they've been a victim because they don't check their credit. Ironically, a lot of people work with people who maybe that individual can't get credit. They have a bankruptcy; they have a judgment, a tax lien. They know that Bob they work with has great credit and so they become Bob to buy car. Bob has no idea they're using their credit to buy the car.

VELSHI: They don't actually steal anything from Bob?

ABAGNALE: No. Just taking Bob's information, applying for the car in Bob's name. Bob never knows it. Ironically, Bob probably never checks his credit. But lets say he does. Then Bob says to a friend I went down and checked my credit, says Ford Motor Company, I don't have a car. So what do you tell the credit bureau well nothing because it kind of looked good on my credit, it upped my score. Their mistake eroded in my favor. Know somebody's using your credit to buy that car.

VELSHI: One question about credit cards versus debit cards. To a lot of people, they're kind of the same thing. They are a little plastic card that means you don't have to pay cash, but there is a difference.

ABAGNALE: Big difference, because when you use a debit card you're using your money every day, you are exposing your money. So ask yourself this simple question, if you got your statement on your debit card and there was an $800 charge you didn't make you would have to go back to your bank and convince them to put the $800 back in your account. That could take 30 days, 60 days, and 90 days. But if it was credit card statement you would just say to the credit card company I didn't make the $800 charge. So when I remit the amount I'm going to remove the $800. Send me an affidavit form to sign, but I'm not paying the $800. You're exposing their money your not taking money. It's makes common sense to me, why should I put my money at risk if I can put the credit card company's money at risk?

VELSHI: Last question. Like more fun on this side or was it more fun on the other side?

ABAGNALE: It is just as challenging chasing criminals as it is being a criminal. So I find it just as much fun and just as challenging to do what I do today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Does that mean crime does pay?

VELSHI: For him it does, crime certainly pays for him. If you're a hacker or something like that, crime does pay. You can outsmart everybody. I asked him to autograph the book. So not only does he autograph the book but also he gives me the pen with which he autographed it. It's a pen from the FBI Academy that he invented with some kind of ink that can't be erased.

ROMANS: Don't let that bleed on your shirt.

VELSHI: The book is full of interesting tips that you take for granted. People want to steal your identity, pay my bills with it, please.

ROMANS: Interesting. Thanks, Ali.

VELSHI: All right. Coming up on IN THE MONEY, science is becoming a tougher sell to American kids. See how some people think we can change that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROMANS: The powerful American economy has relied for many years on the nation's ability to produce leaders in the field of science and engineering.

VELSHI: But today many politicians and business executives agree that the U.S. is falling behind. That leaves America's future economic advantage in some jeopardy.

ROMANS: Joining us now is Shirley Tighlman president of Princeton University; she is passionate about this issue about educating students in our next generation in science and technology. Welcome to the program.

SHIRLEY TIGHLMAN, PRESIDENT, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: Thank you.

ROMANS: How are we going to do a better job of this? Inspiring kids to get in to these fields and also in making sure that the United States can be a leader here?

TIGHLMAN: There is no silver bullet, unfortunately. We see drop- off in student interest in science and engineering at every level of the educational ladder. That means that at every time we're going to have to be doing more to excite students about the tremendous opportunities there are for careers in science and engineering.

ROMANS: Why is the interest dropping off?

TIGHLMAN: I think again, there's no simple answer. I think it begins with the quality of the teaching that goes on in our primary schools, our middle schools, and our high schools. I think we are doing less than we need to do to attract well-trained scientists to teach in those schools. I think one of the most shocking numbers I heard recently is that 67 percent of teachers who teach physics in high school today do not have degrees in physics. That means we have people teaching physics who fundamentally don't understand the subject that they're teaching.

VELSHI: Doctor Tighlman, you got your undergraduate at a fine university. We both went to the same university for our undergrad. You did better with yours than I did with mine, but I remember the engineering students at Queens. You thought, well, they've got it made it is a tough undergrad but they'll make a bazillion dollars. You talk about incentives for people to go in to the fields, isn't it that they graduate and in most cases will earn a lot of money and be successful and have job opportunities? Is that the problem that we're not competitive in sciences and engineering and mathematics?

TIGHLMAN: No. I don't think that's the issue at all. In fact I think if you go in to science or engineering thinking you're going to make a lot of money, then you're essentially responding to the wrong motivation. I think the motivation has got to be that you want to spend your life discovering things and creating new things. In fact, creating economic prosperity. If you looked at the last half of the 20th century, it's been estimated that 70 percent of the economic prosperity they was created in the United States was created by scientists and engineers, their innovation, their creativity. At the end of the day, I think that's the motivation that we have to use to attract more students in to science.

ROMANS: I often take a look at some of the comparisons between fourth grade and eighth grade math and science. You guys compare students from the rest of the world and these things are tracked by you know the United Nations and other organizations and the Unites States is now not even in the top ten or dozen for those for fourth or eighth grade. We need to do something immediately, and what do we do? Is it more money for education? Is it more money for teachers? Is it, maybe, you know wiping away student loans for math and science teachers? What can we do right now?

TIGHLMAN: You've just identified a number of things that are going to be very important to do. First and foremost we've got to get people trained in science, mathematics and engineering, teaching in those schools. And if it takes the natural motivations I think we should be using those. I think forgiving student loans I think is a wonderful way to encourage science graduates to spend a few years, at least teaching after college. I think signing bonuses are something that are being considered right now. Inspiring the generation in the way that Wendy Kopp has, for example, in Teach for America. Inspiring students to think about giving back after they graduate from college, and use their education to inspire the next generation.

VELSHI: Dr. Shirley Tighlman, thank you for joining us a pleasure talking to you. Shirley Tighlman is the president of Princeton University.

Coming up next on IN THE MONEY, Polly LaBarre joins us with a look at the gender pay gap and later on we'll talk about paying for pollution. Now in order to bring some change later. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROMANS: More American women are getting advanced degrees and finding jobs in the corporate world, but a new study says the pay gap between men and women is widening. Polly LaBarre joins us now to break it down for us. It is widening, there was some census I remember last year that said maybe it was it wasn't winding as much, but it is.

POLLY LABARRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is. Women make about 74 cents to every dollar men make. I'm trying not to shoot darts at you directly.

VELSHI: No, yeah.

LABARRE: That's actually gone down in the last decade. The really, I thought, discouraging report that just came out was that just one year after college graduation, women earn just 80 percent of what men earn. The playing field, make it as even as possible and women actually outperform men in college, they get higher GPAs, then go ten years in the workforce, you have been working for ten years, women earn only 69 percent of what men earn, and when you control for factors like you know, parenting responsibilities, what kind of occupation you're in, the hours that you work. Women still earn 12 percent less than men.

ROMANS: So it is not because of what they're choosing to go in to or because they have to take a year to have a baby, it is because when you factor in all that, women are making less than men.

LABARRE: Yes, so what is the explanation? That leads us to sex discrimination. It's a very nuance subject but I think the fact that women make less right out of college is a really striking statistic. Now, here's something interesting. It varies by profession. So you look to engineering and science, a big push of let's get more girls interested in science technology and engineering. That is the one profession a year out of college women actually make more than men. Yeah.

ROMANS: Really?

LABARRE: Yes. But, of course, go forward ten years, they make 93 percent of what men make. The gap is much --

VELSHI: The longer you work, the bigger the gap becomes?

LABARRE: Right so gender discrimination in terms of pay is actually --

ROMANS: Are we not as good of negotiators, do we not negotiate tough enough? Do we not walk into our boss the same way that men do and say I need this raise and deserve it, this is why? Is it subtle differences in the way we behave because we haven't had as long of a career as a gender in the workplace?

LABARRE: I think, before we go to blame the victim, that's an important point, it's structural. OK. We need to extend the family you know, leave, medical act, so that there's paternity pay --

VELSHI: You suffer to be a woman in the workforce.

LABARRE: If you are going to have a baby and do what women do and be a working mother, men don't take maternity leave. So there's already that gender discrimination.

ROMANS: But you get adjusted for that though right? I mean it still --

That's what is worrisome.

LABARRE: I think it's important. There's a cultural thing. The stories women are told how we're raised, no matter what kind of environment you absorb stories about what kind of profession you go in to and all that stuff. Then this negotiating piece is huge. So all of these, study after study on negotiations, men are more than four times -- they're four times more likely to negotiate their first salary than women. Women --

ROMANS: Their first salary.

LABARRE: First salary. Women basically lay out half a million on the table by not negotiating their first salary and there is this great saying that asks men and women to provide a metaphor for when they think about negotiating what does it feel like? Men said it feels like winning a ball game. Women said, it feels like going to the dentist. So it's just showing you the differences between men and women.

But some advice when it comes to negotiating is, no offer is set. You assume any offer that any offer that comes to you, there's room for negotiation, one. Two, equip yourself with knowledge. There's so much information out there on the Web. What's your market value? What's the pay range, the salary range in your profession or your job? And then assume you're worth it. Right? Really go in there thinking you're worth it. Now, it doesn't mean you have to put the brass knuckles on and be a guy and fight for it. You can do it, according to your own personality. It's just starting with that assumption that you're worth it.

ROMANS: Excellent. Polly LaBarre thanks so much for joining us.

LABARRE: Thank you.

ROMANS: I hope we're making the exact same amount of money today.

VELSHI: Yeah. For this show?

ROMANS: I'm pretty sure we are.

VELSHI: They definitely bumped my pay so we're making the same money on this show.

ROMANS: I have to go talk to the boss about that. Thanks Polly. This weekend the NFL will draft a new group of young players and in turn a new group of young millionaires. We met up with one NFL star who's making sure his colleagues hang on to all that money long after their playing days are over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TROY VINCENT, NFL PLAYER: The day that you're drafted is the day you prepare leaving the game.

ROMANS (voice over): The average NFL career lasts less than four years. So entering his 16th season, Troy Vincent has been preparing for life beyond the field for quite some time.

VINCENT: As far as I'm concerned you just need to get through school.

ROMANS: On the sidelines of Vincent's business and philanthropic work centers around the rough neighborhood where he grew up, Trenton, New Jersey.

VINCENT: This is where I learned how to play football on this concrete, not any grass.

ROMANS: In fact, the financial services company Vincent founded is just two blocks from his boyhood home.

VINCENT: It still puzzles me why my community, which I grew up in, looks the same. Why the people are not changing. The environment is still hostile.

ROMANS: Vincent is also focused on helping other NFL players deal with the often-sudden end to their careers.

VINCENT: We've been working on a vision.

ROMANS: As president of the NFL Players Association, he helped launch the NFL Business Management and Entrepreneurial Program.

VINCENT: At the end of the day the story is I created options for myself. I have some companies that I can obviously go to and work in, but my heart and my soul is with the men in the National Football League.

ROMANS: The program offers more than 100 NFL players the opportunity to take part in three-day business workshops during the off-season. As for Vincent, he has his eye on a lofty off-field goal.

VINCENT: I've always thought about owning a football team, or being part owner of a National Football League team.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: A remarkable young man, the NFL Business Management and Entrepreneurial Program just wrapped up its third year and he had some really great advice. He said you know we go out there and knock heads and make a lot of money. This is, the way you really make money, the guys who are really making the money, they are making twice what the players are making without have be to hit anybody. So a really remarkable story.

We are going to be right back with more IN THE MONEY. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Carbon dioxide emissions, which many scientists blame for global warming, have doubled in the United States since 1960. We met one farmer who's trying to do this part to reverse the trend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI (voice over): This might not look like a clean energy project.

ALFRED WANNER, DAIRY FARMER: We're probably generating about 5,000 gallons a day.

VELSHI: But Alfred's Wanner's dairy farm is producing much more than this.

WANNER: The pump from here to the digester tank.

VELSHI: When the tank is heated up, the manures by product methane gas get converted in to carbon fee clean electricity. Enough to power the farm and then some.

WANNER: If we can find people that are willing to partner with us and pay us for doing that, it's a win-win situation for everybody.

VELSHI: It's a growing market. Individuals and corporations like Ford, Intel and Eastman Kodak are buying what are called carbon offsets. It's like a voucher, you invest in clean energy projects, like the Wannor farm or a wind farm or a solar energy project, and you get credit that offsets your company's emissions. Some call that green washing a cheap fix that doesn't actually solve the underlying problem.

STATE SEN. DON PERATA, (D) CALIFORNIA: You can't lose weight cheaply. It's going to be some pain in order to get bad behavior to become good behavior this should be no different.

VELSHI: About 15 states are headed towards some form of emission regulation. California will be the first. The proposed laws could create a system that allows companies to buy these carbon offsets if they can't cut back enough. Carbon credit traders are banking on it becoming a reality.

JOSH MARGOLIS, CANTOR COZE: They are waiting for the uncertainty to be removed. Then you have to pay a lot more if you're a buyer. VELSHI: One carbon offset credit balances out about a metric ton of pollution. That's about a year's worth of emissions from 216,000 cars. Not bad for $4 apiece. That's the going rate for one carbon offset. And so far it's a good deal for Alfred who's turning manure in to a pile of cash.

WANNER: It's not lucrative but it's about as good as it can be at this time. It's worth going after.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: What a fun story.

VELSHI: Interesting. I mean, it's interesting how not everybody's on the same side of this. Some say you shouldn't be allowed to pay for your sins, if you're polluting too much, pull back. Others say, at least there's a way to offset.

ROMANS: The richer the company the more money the company has the more that they are --

VELSHI: They don't have to stop polluting they can buy stuff like this. Interesting, it is probably going to be a growing theme. Right now there are several bills in Congress with provisions for carbon offset trading.

That's it for this week's edition of IN THE MONEY. Thank you for joining us. Be sure to catch Christine later today on "Lou Dobbs This Week."

ROMANS: And you can catch Ali every weekday morning on "American Morning." We will see you back here next week Saturday at 1:00, Sunday at 3:00. See you then.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Happening right now, two suicide bombings and dozens are dead. We are live with the latest from both Iraq and Pakistan. On this Saturday, April 28, I'm Fredricka Whitfield and you are in THE NEWSROOM.

More bloodshed today in Iraq, at least 55 people killed, more than 80 wounded in a suicide car bombing in Karbala and the death toll keeps climbing. CNN's Hugh Riminton joins us live from Baghdad with the details.

Hugh.

HUGH RIMINTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This was a peaceful scene in a sacred town, Fredricka; this is Karbala, the site of two of the holiest shrines particularly for Shia Islam. It was just a half an hour before evening praise, evening coming on and suicide car bomber as you say immediately blew up, leaving the ground strewn with bodies of the dead and the dying. This coming just two weeks after another car bombing killed 44 people and wounded 80, another 55 killed with scores more injured today. In fact so many casualties that they were unable to cope with them in the local hospital, the governor of the province saying he had to ...

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