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Tenet Tells All; Shopping Center Shooting

Aired April 29, 2007 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE TENET, FMR CIA DIRECTOR: I mean I became campaign talk. I was a talking point. You know, look what the idiot told us and we decided to go to war. Let's not be so disingenuous. Let's stand up. This is why we did it, this is how we did it and let's everybody tell the truth.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: the words in particular he's talking about a "slam dunk", that's the phrase that George Tenet used before the U.S. invasion of Iraq. Now it's come back to haunt him and he blames the Bush administration. In a new book the former CIA director claims the administration made him the scapegoat for its decision to go to war. The administration has launched a counterattack now. CNN White House correspondent Elaine Quijano reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): George Tenet describes Condoleezza Rice, then National Security Adviser as sitting on the side lines of policy fights over Iraq. In his new book, Tenet blames Rice for a lack of coordination and strong leadership at the National Security Council, after the Iraq war began, saying "What we did not have is an integrated and open process in Washington that was organized to keep the peace, nor did we have the unity of purpose and resources on the ground. Quite simply, the NSC did not do its job."

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: There were some things that went right and some things that went wrong. And you know what? We'll have a chance to look at that in history and I'll have a chance to reflect on that when I have a chance to write my book.

QUIJANO: In his book and on CBS's "60 Minutes" Tenet also sharply criticizes Vice President Dick Cheney and the administration's use of Tenet's infamous "slam dunk" remark that the case for Iraqi WMD was solid.

GEORGE TENET, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: I was a talking point. You know, look what the idiot told us and we decided to go to war. Well let's not be so disingenuous.

QUIJANO: The former CIA director says the White House had already made up its mind to go to war and took "slam dunk" out of context, making him a scapegoat after no WMDs were found. The Bush administration denies that.

RICE: It was an intelligence problem worldwide. We all thought, including U.N. inspectors, that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, so there's no blame here.

QUIJANO: The backlash has already begun. In a scathing op.-ed the former head of the CIA's Bin Laden unit Michael Scheuer says Tenet who received a Medal of Freedom from President Bush months after resigning, should have made his views known sooner. "Now he tells us. At this late date the Bush-bashing that Tenet's book will inevitably stir up seems designed to rehabilitate Tenet in his first home, the Democratic Party." And in a blistering letter to Tenet, six former CIA officers ask why if his feelings were so strong he did not resign sooner. They accuse Tenet of being equally culpable as the administration officials he criticizes saying, "Your silence contributed to the willingness of the public to support the disastrous war in Iraq which has killed more than 3,300 Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis."

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

QUIJANO: Now the letter also urges Tenet to return the Medal of Freedom he received and to give at least half the royalties from his book sales to U.S. soldiers and the families of those killed and wounded in Iraq. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks so much. It will be interesting to see if he does indeed do any of that. Elaine Quijano at the White House.

George Tenet, well, he had a life in public service, even before serving as the CIA director under two presidents. CNN's Joshua Levs joins us now with a look at his career.

JOSHUA LEVS: That's right. Yeah you know it's interesting to hear about him in this context. Suddenly he's this major Bush administration critic but I'll tell you he was in intelligence for nearly 20 years and once upon a time not all that long ago, he was considered very loyal to President Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEVS (voice-over): You know him as the former head of the CIA, caught up in the intelligence failures over Iraq.

TENET: We may have overestimated the progress Saddam was making.

LEVS: And 9/11.

SLADE GORTON, 9/11 COMMISSION: Mr. Tenet, we're here, of course, because of a massive intelligence failure.

LEVS: George Tenet was considered a loyal member of President Bush's team.

TENET: He has told me firmly and directly that he's wanted it straight and he's wanted it honest and he's never wanted the facts shaded. And that's what we do every day.

LEVS: He was also a rare figure in the administration.

TENET: Ladies and gentlemen, the president of the United States.

LEVS: A holdout from the Clinton era. He began as staffer for the Senate Intelligence Committee, then joined President Clinton's national security team. In 1995 he was appointed deputy director of the CIA, and two years later, became director. When Congress investigated the intelligence failures leading up to 9/11 and the flawed intelligence about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, President Bush did not ask for Tenet's resignation.

DANIEL BENJAMIN, FORMER NSC STAFF MEMBER: He's a very charming, very intelligent, shrewd person and its no surprise that the president took to him.

LEVS: In June 2004, Tenet announced he was leaving his post, insisted it was best for his wife and son. The departure seemed amicable.

BUSH: He's done a superb job on behalf of the American people.

LEVS: He went to work for Georgetown, where he had graduated 30 years earlier and he was awarded the presidential Medal of Freedom. Tenet's profile has been relatively low, until now, with his book, causing a political firestorm, something his friends and aides did not see coming when he was in office.

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

LEVS: In fact, it's interesting, I was looking back today at some of our reporting on him from 2004, and we actually had a report in which some of his aides, advisers, friends, were telling us that he's not the type to kiss and tell so don't ever expect a memoir from him someday when he leaves office. Obviously, Fred that changed. He got upset by some things the administration said after he left office, bim, bam, boom, this big book coming out.

WHITFIELD: I wonder if $3 million helped too. That was the advance I understand. I mean there are a lot of elements, well things that make up this equation, and I don't think anybody has the answer yet. He does.

LEVS: Well we all look forward to hearing what he's going to say and to what the book says. It's definitely going to be getting a lot of attention for a long time.

WHITFIELD: Yeah, Josh Levs, thanks so much.

LEVS: Thanks.

WHITFIELD: This programming note, George Tenet will talk about his book at the center of the storm on "LARRY KING LIVE" tomorrow night. So perhaps we'll get some of those answers that inquiring minds want to know. Tune in at 9:00 eastern, 6:00 pacific. Now to the current situation in Iraq, where April will go down as one of the deadliest months for U.S. troops, since the war began. Just this weekend alone, the Pentagon announced nine more American service members killed in roadside bombings near Baghdad and in combat operations in Anbar Province. And so far this month, 99 U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq. Thirteen coalition forces, including 12 Britons were also killed. The total number of U.S. deaths since the beginning of the war, 3,346. The total number of wounded U.S. service members in "Operation Iraqi Freedom" 24,912.

And a new report says a number of U.S.-led reconstruction projects in Iraq are failing, things like hospitals and power stations. The report was prepared by the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction. It says poor construction and petty looting are among the biggest problems. It also found generators without batteries, and equipment missing fuel lines. At a maternity hospital in Erbil, Iraqi workers either didn't know how to use some of the new equipment or simply didn't trust it.

The Bush administration continues to criticize Congress for passing a plan to withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq. President Bush has promised to veto that plan. Today I spoke with Brett McGurk, the National Security Council's director for Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRETT MCGURK, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: If you write into American legislation withdrawal and threats, that's not helpful in an Iraqi context. But we are pressuring the Iraqis, Secretary Gates was very clear with the Iraqis when he was there last week about the expectations in moving this process forward. And these things are moving forward. But it's going to take a little bit of time. After the veto, let's get on with the compromise. We think there is room for compromise but there are things that obviously the president has said that we can't accept, and withdrawal timelines again is one of the main red lines. But we think we can get beyond this, I will leave it obviously to the president and the congressional leadership to negotiate. I'm not going to do that here. But we need action soon. This has been going on now for three months and it's time to get the bill to the president's desk, let him veto and let's get on with negotiations.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Meantime, some of those congressional leaders are defending the withdrawal plan. Representative Loretta Sanchez is a member of the House Armed Services Committee and she recently visited Iraq. She says a timetable to withdraw U.S. troops will force Iraqi leaders to take more responsibility.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LORETTA SANCHEZ, (D) CALIFORNIA: I said Mr. President, first and foremost, they're your own deadlines in there. They're your own milestones in there. They're the ones that you know have to happen. You've heard from everybody, even General Petraeus that this is not about the military anymore. It's about the political situation and we have to get these people -- your own secretary of defense, Mr. Gates has said that we need to get these parliament members and this prime minister to the table to negotiate the political situation there. And until we do that, no matter how many troops -- Mr. President, you said this was going to be a surge. Now General Petraeus is saying we need the troops there longer. We have a higher escalation than we thought we did and this will be an escalation, and you keep down this path, Mr. President, and this will be your Vietnam. You've got to sign this. We've got to get on with this.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Well instead President Bush is expected to veto the Iraq withdrawal plan on Tuesday. Democrats do not have enough votes to override the veto. Negotiations are already under way on compromise legislation to fund the war.

Meantime a devastating traffic accident in Oakland, California, right near the San Francisco Bay Bridge. A tanker truck carrying thousands of gallons of gas crashed on a highway interchange, and burst into flames. The inferno caused the overpass above to collapse onto the crash site, and this is what it ended up looking like after the fire was put out. Amazingly the driver survived and no one was hurt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILL KEMPTON, DIRECTOR, CALTRANS: The vehicle allegedly traveling at a high rate of speed or over the speed limit at least, went out of control. There was a fire. The fire was particularly hot, that is a steel structure. As a result of the fire and the length of time that it burned, damage was done to the structure and the 580 ramp collapsed down onto the 880 ramp.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Meantime, officials say the roads could take months to fix. They're urging commuters to use public transportation to avoid massive backups. This video was taken by a viewer who grabbed his camera when he saw the crash and we'll be talking to him live in about 10 minutes from now.

Children of immigrants rallied today in Los Angeles, a prelude to Tuesday's May Day marches. Marchers filled the streets of major cities last May, amid a passionate debate over immigration law. In 2007, that debate still rages. Joining us live from Los Angeles now, Peter Viles. Is that demonstration still taking place?

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is now taking place. I don't know if you can hear the music coming from down the street, but it's unrelated, it's a street fair that has happened to be playing salsa music. The march here today in Los Angeles, maybe 1,000, maybe 1,500 people as you say dedicated to the plight of children, particularly children of illegal immigrants, the plight they face, their parents could be deported, even though they never can be, because they are United States citizens. The people who organized this march say that that's unfair, that thousands of families are living in fear that the parents might be sent home and it's time for Congress to step up and change that law.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DELORES HUERTA, MARCH ORGANIZER: Working together, we're going to win, a fair, just, inclusive legalization bill. We want them to stop the violence against our children and stop the deportation.

JUDITH MEJIA, MARCHER: I don't want to go back. She left when I was --

VILES: Where is your mom right now?

MEJIA: Tijuana.

VILES: And when did she leave?

MEJIA: When i was kind of little.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

VILES: As you can see, it's an emotional issue. People on the other side of this issue won't take away the emotion but they say look, the United States government does not break up these families. These parents if they're deported they can keep their families together. They just need to take their children back to the country they're being deported to. And that further, these people who came here illegally knew when they came or they should have known that they were putting themselves at risk of being deported and sent home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK MARTIN, FED. FOR AMERICAN IMMIGRATION REFORM: It creates hardship, there's no doubt about that, but any time that parents have broken the law, the children are going to pay a penalty. And we don't, for example, suggest that people who have committed crimes don't go to prison because of the fact it's going to be hard on their children.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

VILES: Much larger demonstrations expected on Tuesday around the country, as you mentioned Fredricka. One footnote here, I don't know if you remember last year, but one of the controversies out of these marches last year, was that so many of the people who marched were waving the flag of their country of origin. Here in Los Angeles, it was a sea of Mexican flags that really angered people around the country. Today was almost entirely American flags being waved, I would say at least 10 to 1 American flags over the flags of all of the other countries combined. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: All right, Peter Viles, thanks so much.

Well, if you watch his show, then you know what he thinks about illegal immigration. Buckle your seat belts. Lou Dobbs had a very shall I say heated discussion on that topic with CNN NEWSROOM's Rick Sanchez. Here is a taste.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Should there not be a little bit of room for tolerance? Are we not judged by how we treat the least amongst us?

LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: I don't think you could find a more tolerant nation in the world could you Rick? This nation brings in lawfully more than 2 million immigrants a year.

SANCHEZ: And that's what makes --

DOBBS: But let me finish.

SANCHEZ: Go ahead.

DOBBS: That is more than the rest of the world combined. And yet, I hear the effrontery that this is not a welcoming nation.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

WHITIFELD: All right, that's just the beginning. You'll see much more in our Sunday spotlight tonight at 10:00 eastern, and the entire network is turning the spotlight on the issue of immigration all week. Tuesday in particular, May 1st, we'll have coverage throughout the day, among other things, we're covering immigration rallies scheduled across the country. Then on Wednesday night, Lou Dobbs is live in Hazleton, Pennsylvania for a broken borders town hall meeting, it's a CNN special prime time event, Wednesday night, 8:00 p.m. eastern.

And later, in the NEWSROOM, the story of an immigrant woman seeking sanctuary in order to stay in the U.S. with her child.

And scientologists are reaching out to students at Virginia Tech. Are they there to help or to recruit new members?

Plus -- the fire threat remains high in some parts of the country and we'll get the latest straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: This information we're just now getting into the NEWSROOM out of Kansas City, Missouri, reports of a multiple shooting taking place in a shopping mall, the Ward Parkway Shopping Center in Kansas City, Missouri. And when asked if the shooter was still on the loose a spokesperson for the police department there says, "I don't think so." So we're going to continue to watch the situation there and find out if anyone has been injured or anything else involved in that shooting.

Meantime, Georgia forestry officials say a huge wildfire in the Okefenokee Swamp could blaze on for weeks more. Gusty winds and dry scrub are fueling the flames. At last report firefighters said they contained 70 percent of the largest fire which has already burned about 100 square miles in southeast Georgia.

Well the picture isn't as bleak in Riverside County, California, as crews there are battling a brush fire. And they say they are making some pretty good progress. It has burned a little more than 100 acres since igniting yesterday afternoon. No one has been hurt, that's good news, and there are also no structural damages being reported. And so far, no word on exactly what may have sparked that blaze.

Here's a hint for Phoenix area radio stations. You might want to hold off playing the 1970's hit "Dust in the Wind" for a bit. The so- called valley of the sun was darkened yesterday when a major dust storm did blow into town. The storm prompted the National Weather Service to warn motorists to stay off the roads because of some pretty bad visibility.

(WEATHER REPORT)

WHITFIELD: Now we want to update you on a situation I just told you about a moment ago out of Kansas City, Missouri. Well the crime scene is still active, however, the good news is, police say they believe they have a suspect in custody, after this suspect allegedly opened fire on a Kansas City police officer on a roadway and then actually drove to the shopping mall, the Ward Parkway Shopping Mall, entered a Target store there and then allegedly opened fire again, injuring two people. We don't know the condition of the two people who were hit by this hail of gunfire, but the suspect is described to be a man in his 50s, and was at the time driving a red Oldsmobile. But again, police say that they have that person in custody, and the suspect allegedly used an AK-47 or possibly a rifle in this shooting, and that he may have had another weapon on his side as well. So active crime scene right now, but most recent information is, two people injured. We don't know the extent of their injuries and one suspect now in custody. More when we get it.

Meantime coming up in the NEWSROOM, I'll speak to the man who shot this i-Report video of the fire that damaged the Aqui Bay Area Bridge.

And former Senator Carol Moseley Braun says a college student who came to her aid after a mugging is a hero. You'll hear from him, straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: An update now on a shooting taking place at a Kansas City, Missouri mall. Two people have been injured, one man is now in custody after he allegedly opened fire on a roadway, and then made his way to a Target store in the Ward Parkway Mall, this in Kansas City, Missouri. KMBC's Marcus Moore filed this report a short while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARCUS MOORE, KMBC: We don't have any official information but what we're hearing is the same information, that there are multiple shooting victims, exactly how badly they've been hurt, we don't know at this point. We haven't been able to talk to authorities. But from what we are hearing from the witnesses here, this was just an absolutely terrifying experience that they went through here at the Ward Parkway Mall. I talked to people who were inside this Target, where Johnny was mentioning, says a lot of the activity there. Well that is where we believe that this gunman apparently started shooting, or continued shooting after leaving another part of the mall. That's what we're getting from witnesses. People were telling us that they heard screams, and were being told to run. They thought to run for their safety. Some people ran out of the store. Others tried to hide behind the aisles all the while hearing the sound of shots. Now, right now I'm on the south end of the mall here along state line and there's some activity going on here. This area is blocked off like Johnny was mentioning, and we see police talking to a number of witnesses, perhaps people who saw the gunman, as this all unfolded. That's the information that we're working with right now. At this very moment we're feeding video some video so you can have some shots from the ground, but definitely a terrifying afternoon for people who were inside the mall, also in the movie theater who were all told to basically run for their lives. Back to you.

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: So again, at last report now, two people injured, at least two people injured, when a 50-year-old suspect carrying possibly an AK-47 or some other type of rifle opened fire on a roadway and then again in the shopping mall. He is now in police custody.

Meantime, a huge news story unfolding right before your eyes. It happened to one of our viewers, who grabbed his video camera and then captured these dramatic images of that huge tanker fire in Oakland, California. I-reporter Paul Kochli joins us now live on the phone to tell us about what he saw and how he felt while taping all of this footage. So, Mr. Kochli what was going on when you just happened to drive by and suddenly this tanker was set ablaze there right on Aqui Bridge?

PAUL KOCHLI, I-REPORTER: Well, it was definitely a large distraction, something I'm not used to. We come across the bridge and see this large plume of smoke and as soon as we come up we see the flames. I thought it was a plane crash.

WHITFIELD: And so what were your instincts telling you? Were you torn between going to try and help out versus grabbing your camera and getting these images?

KOCHLI: Basically at that point I saw emergency vehicles on the scene, and I didn't want to get close. I knew whatever it was that there was enough damage that there was probably no hope for, you know, survivors or anything like that. At least from my point of view, the flames were just -- that footage was taken from probably 2 or 300 feet away and you can see how dramatic the flames are so we could feel the heat probably 2 or 300 feet away. So me and my girlfriend stopped the car, we rolled down the window and I just thought we're probably the only people that are going to be taping this. Everybody else is pretty much in shock. There were a few other cars on the side of the road getting a view, but CHP then came along and pushed us off, so. WHITFIELD: Wow, well, it's remarkable, too, that no one was hurt in this, because you look at these pictures and you think surely somebody has been injured, but good news is, no one has. We just know that tomorrow it's going to be an ugly commute there in the San Francisco Bay Area. Paul Kochli, thanks so much for sharing your images with us.

KOCHLI: Not a problem. You're welcome.

WHITFIELD: And the story as well. And we'll have much more on the other events that are unfolding at this hour near in the NEWSROOM, including that shopping mall shooting I told you about moments ago out of Kansas City, Missouri. Two people injured, at least two people injured and one person in custody. More right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

WHITFIELD: Well the latest reports are indicating that that shooting I told you about just moments ago out of Kansas City, Missouri, has now taken a tragic turn.

According to the Kansas City fire department, two people have died as a result of this shooting, and one of the victims includes the shooter. The man who allegedly opened fire on a roadway, and then apparently went to a Target store at the Ward Parking shopping center and then opened fire, again, and contrary to earlier reports that two people were injured and that the suspected gunman was in custody.

Well, now we're hearing from the fire department that two people died from that shooting, including the alleged gunman. Of course we're going to continue to work our sources. Meantime, one of the eyewitnesses to this shooting, Queea Miller is on the telephone with us now. Queea, what did you hear or see?

QUEEA MILLER, WITNESS (on phone): Well, I was just pulling up in the parking lot, and my daughter had went in the hatch to put some pots in the cooler, and we heard gunshots and I told her she asked me, was that gunshots? And I yeah, get down.

And as she got down, we heard a couple of more gunshots so I got her to crawl around the front and get back in the truck and we laid our seats become back but as I was looking around I seen a man standing two cars over from me and right behind us, and he had started shooting again, and I actually seen the gestures of his hand where he had reloaded the gun, and as he reloaded, he just started shooting again.

So we just laid in the truck and as I seen the police start, the sirens coming and the police start running with their guns, I gestured and me and my daughter got out of the car and we ran into Pier One.

WHITFIELD: So let me get this straight. So as you were in your car and getting ready to go shopping, everything seemed completely calm, then suddenly you heard this gunfire, and then you actually see this gunman reloading.

MILLER: Yes, I actually did, and like I said, we had just pulled up and she got right out of the car and as I drove past, we drove past right where I seen him standing, I didn't see anybody with a gun so I don't -- it's just crazy. My heart was at my feet.

WHITFIELD: Oh, my goodness, I know it was. And so what continued to happen, as this gunman was unloading -- you know, this hail of gunfire, what else could you hear after that, and did you see, you know, police officers and everybody else kind of arriving? What was the elapse of time?

MILLER: Yeah, the elapse of time was the gunfire and the gunfire never ceased. As I seen the police officers arriving, there was still gunfire going on.

But I thought and told her to get out of the car because the gunfire started sounding more distant, it wasn't close anymore and it got more and more distant and as it got distant and I seen the police officers everywhere, fully armed, guns out and everything, I told her to jump out of the truck and that's when we ran into Pier One.

WHITFIELD: When you saw this man, when you could tell that this was indeed the gunman, about how far away in feet or yards can you tell me that?

MILLER: I actually can't tell you how many feet. I'm saying I'm in an SUV and there were two SUVs on the side of me and he was two SUVs over, and maybe the driving part of the parking lot back.

WHITFIELD: That was close.

MILLER: That was very close.

WHITFIELD: And so when we're hearing from the fire department that at least two people are dead, including the gunman, were you in that area long enough to know whether indeed the gunman was hit by gunfire or whether he was taken into custody?

MILLER: Actually, no. When I seen him, he was just walking and shooting and he didn't appear to be harmed at all. So I don't know if he got shot after he went into that mall or what, but as I looked out the window of Pier One, I see cars where the back windshields are shot out.

I've witnessed three ambulances leave the scene with people that they put in the gurney and I witnessed the police officer standing on the outside of one of those cars where the windows are shut out and pretty frustrated. One of the officers was actually mad.

WHITFIELD: So Queea why did you find it was safer to go to the Pier One, the nearby store as opposed to staying in your car? What was racing through your mind?

MILLER: The man the last time I seen him, he was right by my car. WHITFIELD: You felt like he had seen you?

MILLER: No, I didn't feel like he seen me because like I said the windows were tinted but just the thought of being in the car, and the shooter is still outside, just didn't seem safe to me. I thought we needed to get out of my truck.

WHITFIELD: While you were running, weren't your afraid that perhaps he would see you running?

MILLER: Actually, all the police were running towards where the gunfire was, so that's the only reason I got on out and told my daughter to come with me to run on the inside of the store because it would have been more dangerous to stay out in the truck and they all start having a shootout and we get caught like that, too.

WHITFIELD: These are incredible heart-stopping moments for you. So tell me what it was like for everybody else. Was there chaos, people screaming, crying, what was going on?

MILLER: Yes, everybody that was outside -- you could see people scrambling. It wasn't a whole lot of people out there. People were running and could you hear screaming. I heard screaming.

WHITFIELD: So Queea, tell me about this shopping mall, is this one you go to often? Is this one that's always relatively calm, you always feel safe as a shopper?

MILLER: Every time I get ready to buy shoes a come out here. I was on my way in to Off Broadway, I come here maybe two, three times a month.

WHITFIELD: Wow. Well, this was an incredible day for you and for all the other shoppers there. Queea Miller, thanks so much for taking the time and we're glad everything is good with you, and everybody else that was with you during this shopping experience.

So again out of Kansas City, Missouri, there, some heart-stopping moments as shoppers were just carrying out their daily biz there at the mall, at the Ward Park Mall when suddenly a gunman opens fire there. What started out in the parking lot right near that Target and you heard from Queea Miller, she witnessed it all, hearing the gunfire, and seeing the gunman.

And now we're learning that two people -- at least two people are dead as a result of this exchange of gunfire, and we're hearing from the fire department that at least one of those people just happens to be the gunman. When we get any more information, any more facts and figures on this, we'll be able to bring that to you.

Other news we're following, a former senator says a college student is her new hero. He'll tell us exactly what happened straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

WHITFIELD: Conflicting reports coming out of Kansas City, Missouri, where a shooting took place at a shopping mall.

What we know according to authorities there is that a gunman opened fire at a Target parking lot at the Ward Parking -- Ward Parkway Shopping Center, and here's the conflicting part.

While we understand that at least two people have died as a result of the shooting, it's unclear whether indeed one of those killed was the gunman, or whether indeed the gunman is in custody, but the fire department and the police departments there in Kansas City are telling us different stories, as are some eyewitnesses, so we're trying to clarify that.

But we do know the shooting did take place in broad daylight there out of Kansas City, Missouri, and as you can imagine, a lot of chaos involving all the shoppers there who thought they were in a safe place and everything was going OK, until they started hearing the gunshots and actually seeing the gunman. Here is one eyewitness account.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRAVIS JOHNSON, WITNESS: Well I was standing at the registers, getting ready to pay for my purchases. I was like the close, the register closest to the inside of Target, not the ones closer to the doors.

The next thing I heard people were screaming and yelling and I look up and people are running and crying and I started to step out into the aisle and like two people knocked into me, knocked me to the ground and someone helped me up and said "You need to get out of here, someone's shooting." And then I hear the third round of shots in the Target.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So what's going through your head?

JOHNSON: A lot of different stuff. I just, wouldn't think it would ever happened. It just took me by surprise and one thing that kind of, I looked at it as my credit card's still in the machine, and all of that stuff, but you just started running, and I just felt bad for the people.

Some people had kids left in there, in the bathrooms, and I just never would have thought a shooting would have happened down here especially.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So the people that got out...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: You were hearing eyewitness account of someone right there at the Ward Parkway Shopping Center out of Kansas City, Missouri. Tape is just now coming in. We're trying to get it to you as fast as possible. You're looking at live pictures right now, the aerial view. It is still an active crime scene, even though we understand that the shooting has dissipated.

All of that has stopped but what's unclear right now is, while authorities are saying two people have been killed as a result of this shooting it's unclear exactly who was among them. One report indicates that the gunman may have been killed. Another indicates that the gunman is in custody. We're trying to sort out the details with various authorities there on the ground, but that is the situation, pretty frightening stuff.

Also frightening stuff taking place out of Illinois, a former Illinois senator is mugged, but we're going to hear from someone who may have saved the day, who helped keep her alive, she says. That live conversation coming up.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

WHITFIELD: Some very frightening moments at a Kansas City, Missouri shopping mall where a gunman opens fire right there in the middle of broad daylight.

What we understand is at least two people are dead, at least two wounded. It's unclear whether the gunman is one of the dead, wounded, or whether he's in custody. We're getting conflicting reports. We're going to sort that out throughout the NEWSROOM and bring you the very latest.

Meantime, more of the NEWSROOM coming up later on this evening with Rick Sanchez. He joins me now with a preview of what's to come. We know you're going to be following that because that story is really just now evolving, and who knows where it's going.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And let me say, you're doing a magnificent job juggling the story because information's coming in as you're trying to share it with the viewers.

WHITFIELD: Well thanks, it's coming from a lot of different places, so we're just trying to get it all out there.

SANCHEZ: The great thing about CNN is that we've really established a great rapport with viewers. So they call us and give us information. I tell people sometimes, who are the best reporters at CNN? You are. Really it's the people, people who call and give us great stuff. So we just want to let you know how much we appreciate it. By the way, this Tenet story is not going away. It's growing some legs.

WHITFIELD: Yeah.

SANCHEZ: And we're going to be talking to our CNN analyst, John McLaughlin about this, because Tenet is saying essentially, yes, I said "slam dunk," so essentially I was agreeing with the fact that there may be WMDs in Iraq, but I'm not the reason we invaded Iraq. That seems to be his pitch so there's a bigger question now about what the atmospherics were at the time. Well John McLaughlin was at these meetings.

WHITFIELD: He said he heard it, but...

SANCHEZ: Exactly.

WHITFIELD: ... dot dot dot. You have to tune in for the rest of it.

SANCHEZ: I think the devil is in the detail in this story and why was it that somebody didn't raise their hand and say why are we doing this? Hold on. Maybe that's not correct, let's reexamine this. And I think it's a good conversation for this country at this particular time and that's certainly what a lot of people are saying so we'll join in.

WHITFIELD: Yes, and the book is out on the stands tomorrow.

SANCHEZ: Right.

WHITFIELD: But folks are talking now and they're going to talk all week about it.

SANCHEZ: Well, and there's -- that's another question. Why is he saying it now and why didn't he say it then or sooner or the last time he was, you know appearing before Congress with his right hand down?

WHITFIELD: Yes, and no one knows the answer yet, at least no one publicly knows the answer.

SANCHEZ: We're going to get it tonight.

WHITFIELD: Maybe the two of you will. All right, we're counting on you, thanks, Rick.

SANCEHZ: Thanks, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, well former senator and presidential candidate Carol Moseley Braun, well she had a close call of her own, and right now she's nursing a broken wrist after an attempted mugging.

She says the attacker made a grab for her purse Friday night, outside her home. Braun fought back, kept her bag, but went down on her arm which is now in a cast.

Well, thankfully a local college student just happened to be walking by with a friend to help out Braun fight off the attacker. Braun is calling the student now and his friend heroes.

She says they may have, in fact, saved her life. Police are still looking now for the suspect. Joining me now on the phone is Zachary Trayes-Gibson, the former senator's newfound hero. So Zachary, what do you think? Had it not been for you walking by, perhaps things would have turned out far differently?

ZACHARY TRAYES-GIBSON, U OF CHICAGO STUDENT (on phone): Perhaps so, yeah. I'm just glad I was there, you know, at the right place at the right time.

WHITFIELD: Tell me what you saw. I understand from the reports that she was really right outside her door at her home.

TRAYES-GIBSON: Yes, she was right outside of her front step.

WHITFIELD: All right, what did you see as you were coming by?

TRAYES-GIBSON: Well, we passed by and we heard it first before we saw anything, we just heard piercing screams, a woman screaming bloody murder.

We turned around and saw a woman on the ground being assaulted by this man so we just ran towards her as fast as possible. My friend shouted out "hey," the man looked up and took off and I chased him to the next block.

WHITFIELD: So no hesitation? You didn't know what he was going to be capable of -- weren't you worried from your own life?

TRAYES-GIBSON: No, it really didn't cross my mind. My only thought was, you know, run.

WHITFIELD: And then what happened?

TRAYES-GIBSON: Once we reached the next block, he hid behind some cars and came out into the street. He pulled out an object from his pocket, which at first I thought was a gun, and then I saw a blade in the street light so it was a knife, and he started coming at me with it. So I backed up a little bit and he ran off and hid underneath or behind rather some other cars on the north side of the street.

So I looked over at him and looked back at Carol Moseley Braun, I looked over him and he wasn't there and I saw a car door open on the south side of the street, him stepping inside, brake lights went on and he just peeled out.

WHITFIELD: At what point did you realize who you were helping to rescue?

TRAYES-GIBSON: Not until after the fact, until I came back and she said, I'm Carol Moseley Braun and it was instantly the recognition there. I said oh, oh wow, you know? It's quite the surprise.

WHITFIELD: And was it late at night? Was it difficult to see?

TRAYES-GIBSON: Yeah, it was just before midnight, so it was a pretty low-lit street so yeah, it was fairly difficult to see much of anything.

WHITFIELD: Well, thank you..

TRAYES-GIBSON: ... So I didn't get a good look at him, which is unfortunate. WHITFIELD: So I described earlier she fell on her wrist, and so she broke her wrist, and thankfully it wasn't anything more serious than that, but she really is crediting you for really helping to save her life because who knows what that guy with the knife was willing to do next.

TRAYES-GIBSON: Right, right. I mean, I'm just glad that my friend, Rich, and I were there.

WHTIFIELD: Well I know she's glad, too. Zachary Trayes-Gibson thanks so much for your time.

TRAYES-GIBSON: No problem at all.

WHITFIELD: Glad you were there at the right time to help save the day.

Something else we continue to follow, some pretty frightening moments taking place out of Kansas City, Missouri, just moments ago. We understand that a gunman opened fire there, and you can see in those live pictures the result of that gunfire, the hail of bullets that took place outside that very crowded shopping mall.

We've been hearing from various eyewitness accounts. We understand there are some conflicting reports coming from both fire department, police officials and many of our affiliates that are there in the area. We understand that at least two people are dead. Two wounded. Here's one eyewitness account that we just received.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were just in Target shopping for some shoes, and then we saw, we heard a man yelling at his daughter, he just seemed like he was mad at his daughter and then we saw a bunch of people just running down the aisles and we said what's going on? We don't know. So we just started, I asked this one lady, she said I think there were shots in the mall or something, and so we started heading towards the front door.

People went out the emergency exit and we heard three or four shots in Target, probably near the checkout aisles, and then we just ran out the door and then my son, he saw one of the men who had been shot, somebody got shot, he had blood on his face.

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WHITFIELD: Scary stuff. Kansas City, Missouri, right outside the mall there, at Ward Parkway shopping center, and then as you heard from that eyewitness account, and others who have said that the gunman actually went inside the Target and opened fire as well.

Two people reportedly dead, two wounded. We're still trying to sort out conflicting reports about the gunman, whether he is dead or alive, whether he's in custody, if alive. More of that information as it continues to pour into the NEWSROOM throughout the evening. And other things we continue to follow throughout the night, "LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK," he'll examine why the federal government is taking on the Salvation Army. And at 7:00 Eastern, former CIA director George Tenet's second in command will talk to Rick Sanchez about his former boss's controversial new book, out on bookstand's tomorrow, but already people are talking about it. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. The latest on the day's top stories, then Lou Dobbs right after this.

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