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Al-Masri Killed?; Smuggling Violence; Seeking Sanctuary

Aired May 01, 2007 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Al Qaeda in Iraq's top man, Aby Ayyub al-Masri said to have been killed in a clash with Sunni tribes.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Immigrants staging nationwide rallies today. I talk live this hour with CNN anchor, author and shoot from the hip -- or lip I, I should say, illegal immigration critic Lou Dobbs. Part of our day long coverage, "Immigration Nation."

HARRIS: And a hip.

May Day rumble. Protesters and police tangle in Turkey. Street battles on Tuesday, the first day of May. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

COLLINS: Developing this hour. He is one of the most wanted men in Iraq. Today reports al Qaeda in Iraq leader Abu Ayyub al-Masri has been killed. CNN's Arwa Damon is checking this story in Baghdad.

Arwa, what type of impact would al-Masri's death have on al Qaeda operations in Iraq if indeed this story is true?

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Heidi, the way that al Qaeda operates is really anything to go by, not much. This is an organization that really has proven time and time again its ability to regenerate itself. If you remember in the summer of 2006, after Zarqawi, Iraq's former leader, was killed, it only took al Qaeda four days to name al-Masri as his successor. And al Qaeda has continued to demonstrates its ability to operate and conduct attacks throughout the entire country.

Now, if this story is true, the interesting part about it, the potential impact, is not whether or not al-Masri was killed, but who killed him. We are hearing from Iraqi spokesman Ali Dabas (ph) that it was, in fact, tribes, individuals within tribes acting on their own initiative, acting on their own intelligence that had heard that al- Masri was up in an area north of Baghdad known as el Niabre (ph). This is a very desertous (ph) area where al Qaeda in Iraq is said to have had its own training camps. The they moved up there to try to take on al Qaeda and al-Masri on their own.

Heidi.

COLLINS: Wow. Well, we're hearing more of tribal attacks against al Qaeda in Iraq. What does that signify? Does it say anything here?

DAMON: Well, Heidi, like you just mentioned, this is a trend that we have been seeing for quite a few months now. We are see that tribes, insurgent groups even, that were once aligned with al Qaeda, or at least were passive supporters of al Qaeda, now trying to distance themselves from it, going as far as to take up arms against elements of al Qaeda. This is especially predominant in al Anbar Province, that was once a hotbed of the insurgency.

Now we're seeing this divide happening within al Qaeda and groups that were aligned to it. That is mainly because al Qaeda, in the long run, is trying to establish an Islamic state in Iraq. In fact, it has gone as far as to try to create its own shadow governments.

Many of the Sunni groups that are operating here have a more nationalistic goal in mind. They have Iraq's interest in mind. And it is really only formed an alliance of convenience with al Qaeda because they had a common enemy. That being the United States.

But in recent times you have seen al Qaeda pushing forward, a more Islamic agenda, carrying out these spectacular and utterly devastating attacks against the civilian popular, trying to assert itself as the dominant force here and for the other Sunni groups. They will reject al Qaeda leaving Iraq, as much as they will be rejecting U.S. forces leaving Iraq and are now appearing to begin to turn against al Qaeda.

Heidi.

COLLINS: We know you're watching it for us very closely from there. Arwa Damon live from Baghdad this morning.

Arwa, thank you.

From the fight in Iraq, to the fight over Iraq. This afternoon, Congress finally sends that controversial $124 billion war spending bill to President Bush. First, Democratic leaders will make one last pitch for the president not to veto it. At issue, a provision requiring troops to begin leaving Iraq in October. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says Americans have lost patience with the war. The president says he won't abide by any, "artificial timetables." Lawmakers are already said to be at work on a new spending bill.

HARRIS: People smuggling people. It is big business, a key path to the U.S. for many illegal immigrants and often a trigger for violence. CNN's Ed Lavandera is in Houston now.

Ed, good morning to you.

There has been some disturbing changes in the way these smuggler are operating. Detail that for us.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, normally when you do a story about coyote and human smugglers, I guess the first thought you get is you go to the border towns to go do a story like this. But we're here in Houston because what happened at this intersection behind me just a few weeks ago, and a couple of other incidents around here, has really opened up a lot of people's eyes away from the border as to the danger in the dark underside of human smuggling.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA, (voice over): Gunfire erupts in broad daylight in a busy Houston intersection. One man is killed, two are wounded. The gun battle stuns onlookers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bullets were ricocheting off the signs and off if buildings and everything. And I walked to the intersection and a guy was laying dead in the street.

LAVANDERA: Federal authorities say rival smugglers fighting over a load of illegal immigrants could be responsible. Human smugglers, known as coyotes, aren't just a border phenomenon anymore, they're moving north and could be coming to a neighborhood near you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They see increased presence on the border and so they think that they may be safer if they have a stash house in Phoenix rather than Tucson.

LAVANDERA: And the coyotes are becoming more violent, often treating immigrants like this.

ALONSO PENJA (ph), SPECIAL AGENT, ICE: We've had, as I showed you there, the case where the guy's fingernails were pulled out. We have another case where they were, with a grinder, grinding a person's knuckles.

LAVANDERA: Immigration and Customs Enforcement Special Agent Alonso Penja took us on a drive through Phoenix. He says smugglers are now organized like drug cartels, willing to do anything to control illegal immigrants.

PENJA: Some smugglers don't even want to go to the trouble and the overhead of smuggling a load from the border. They'd just rather rip it off here and then tell those aliens, I don't care what you've paid the other smuggler, you're going to pay me now if you want to be released.

LAVANDERA: Last week in Houston, 40 immigrants were found in this apartment, held hostage for days without food and water. Constable Victor Trevino (ph) worries smugglers are making the streets he patrols far from the border more dangerous.

CONSTABLE VICTOR TREVINO: It's not just at the border. It's coming into our neighborhood. And it's coming into our -- the large cities.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA: Now for decades, human smuggling has been a common thing on the border. But for many, many years it was loosely organized, it was mom and pop type operations. But now we're see that drastically change.

In fact, federal authorities say that smugglers these days are charging Mexican nationals about $1,500 to come across. And anyone south of Mexico can be charged anywhere from $3,000 to $5,000. And, of course, all that with the caveat that once you get here, the coyotes often and will renegotiate, if you will, and essentially, in some cases, even holding people hostage to get more money, extract more money out of them.

HARRIS: OK. Ed, you know, these smugglers are moving their human cargo into neighborhoods. I'm wondering, are neighbors fighting back by offering tips to law enforcement so they can root out this problem?

LAVANDERA: Yes, in many cases they do. They see suspicious activity. But, you know, it's kind of hard, you know, the stereotype of what you think a stash house might look like. In fact, that ride along that we did in Phoenix last week, the ICE agent there showed us a map of the city that was just peppered with red dots showing all these different stash houses. Eighty that have been found there in the first four months of this year in Phoenix alone. And some of them it looked like houses that you would suspect might -- could be used for this kind of thing.

But many of them suburban, beautiful homes. The last thing you would expect to be for human smuggling rings to be operating out of there. So just because you think someplace might or might not look like a stash house, you can't really go by that anymore.

HARRIS: CNN's Ed Lavandera for us this morning.

Ed, thank you.

COLLINS: Now let's turn to a well-known and outspoken watchdog on illegal immigration. CNN's Lou Dobbs is joining us now from New York.

Hello there, Lou. Nice to see you.

LOU DOBBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Heidi. How are you?

COLLINS: I'm fine, thanks.

Hey, you know, we realize that this year's rallies in comparison with last year, of course, are probably going to be quite a bit smaller. Why do you think that is?

DOBBS: Well, you've already got people trying to manage expectations. The idea being that I've heard a number of people saying, well, there's great fear on the part of the illegal alien community now because there have been more ICE apprehensions. There are, you know, various explanations.

The fact is, that I think most people who are organizing these rallies have just simply refused to look at the fact there was a backlash against the so-called day without immigrants last week that was supposed to shut down businesses and some communities. It just didn't happen.

COLLINS: Right. So what is illegal immigration doing to our country, Lou?

DOBBS: Well, a couple of things it's doing to our country. It's creating a real confusion in mainstream media. You know, you've had up the title there "Immigration Nation," right? The fact of the matter is, I don't know what that means. "Immigration Nation." We're first a nation of laws. We're built on immigrants. But lawful immigrants.

And I listen to Ed Lavandera. You talk about what does it do to us? I mean Ed Lavandera in that report referred to coyotes as coyotes in the Latino language, and then in the stand-up referred to coyotes. There is this peculiar attitude on the part of some that there is an Hispanic identification to this. Yes. Most of the illegal aliens are Hispanic, most from Mexico.

And then you have the idea that he referred to illegal aliens as immigrants. As if there is no distinction in our reporting as mainstream media between legal, lawful immigrants and illegal aliens. That's one of the things that's been created here. Mainstream media taking on what is effectively an agenda.

COLLINS: OK. Well stated and completely understand that.

Here's a question for you, though.

DOBBS: Sure.

COLLINS: What do you do -- and not that this is a really valid comparison. We're talking about the Iraq War.

DOBBS: Sure.

COLLINS: You know there are definitely people who say, all right, look, we never should have gone there. And we should be pulling out. But, you know, the fact of the matter is, we're there. So what are we going to do now? You look at immigration, you have all of these people in this country. And we've talked a lot about the children of illegal immigrants who are citizens. What do we do now that the situation is as it is, regardless of it if it ever should have happened in the first place?

DOBBS: The first thing we do, and I don't think it's really helpful, Heidi, if I may say, to conflate Iraq and illegal immigration in this country. The fact is -- except in this one case, we have to take an empirical view of what we're doing. Both are issues of national policy and they should be dealt with rationally, empirically.

And you mention the children of illegal immigrants who have been born here. They are American citizens. And the law is very clear. They will be American citizens. Their parents have the right to take them home, should they wish. If they choose not to be American citizens.

But what do we do now? Heidi, it's very simple because the fact is, we need the secure our borders. I have said time and time again, we cannot reform immigration law in this country unless we can control immigration. We can't control immigration unless we're in control of our borders and our ports and it's that straightforward.

The 700-page Flat Gutierrez or Gutierrez Flat bill in the House, the Edward Kennedy/George W. Bush legislation that will likely emanate from the Senate, the Democratic leadership on Capitol Hill and the Republican president, this is just nonsense. The fact is, we bring in more than two million lawful immigrants into this country every year.

COLLINS: Yes.

DOBBS: That's more than the rest of the world combined. So this is nonsense. We have all sorts of guest worker programs. Why in the world, because Mexico sits in proximity, is contiguous to the United States, should the citizens of that country be given a free ride on the backs of legal, lawful immigrants and American citizens. It's absurd.

COLLINS: So it is easy to stay. I mean it would be difficult for some people to fight, obviously.

DOBBS: What's easy to say? What's easy to say?

COLLINS: Legal immigration only. In fact, and we heard a little bit more about it from Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chernoff. Listen if you will to this and I'll get your comment on the back side.

DOBBS: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We're, obviously, sympathetic to the plight of children who find themselves caught in this situation. But we do have to remember, it is the parents' choice to break the law. We always do these raids in a way that takes care of children, make sure that we've taken steps to coordinate with the local authorities. But at the end of the day, we cannot compromise on enforcing the law simply because somebody has given birth to a child in the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: So clearly you agree with Secretary Chertoff, correct, about children and the fact that this is their parent's choice to break the law in the first place?

DOBBS: Absolutely. I mean it's straightforward.

COLLINS: What happens to the child, though?

DOBBS: What happens to the child? That is as it is around the world. The responsibility and the volition of the parents. They must choose. Those who have chosen to come here to have a child, sometimes out of wedlock, but certainly timing their appearance within the borders of the United States unlawfully and have a child in America, that's an American child, with full citizenship. We have no responsibility for those parents, nor should, nor should anyone confuse the fact that laws are being broken to take advantage of the fact that we are not enforcing our laws at the border. We're not securing our borders. And we have to deal straightforwardly with it.

COLLINS: Lou, thanks for being here on the NEWSROOM. We appreciate it.

DOBBS: It's a pleasure.

COLLINS: And as most people know but by now, tomorrow night, a small town with a huge problem. Lou Dobbs, he is live in Hazleton, Pennsylvania, where the fight heats up this town and draws the line. What they're doing to fight broken boards. A Lou Dobbs primetime special, CNN, tomorrow night 8:00 Eastern.

HARRIS: Personal stories and political policy. Immigration issues in the spotlight this morning. We will talk with a Texas congressman straight ahead for you in the NEWSROOM.

Plus, seeking sanctuary in the U.S. Illegal immigrants looking for a way to stay in America. That is coming up for you in the NEWSROOM.

COLLINS: There is trouble in Turkey. May Day takes a violent turn. Tell you about it in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And good morning again everyone. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Tony Harris.

In northern California, the wreckage of a collapsed bridge comes down and new concerns are raised about the man who's to blame. A closer look in the NEWSROOM.

COLLINS: And I'm Heidi Collins. A truck on the tracks. And here comes the train. Exclusive i-Report pictures ahead in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Thousands of people are expected to rally for immigration rights next hour in Chicago. CNN's Soledad O'Brien will be in the thick of it and she joins us now from Union Sark.

Soledad, good morning to you.

OK. Behind you there, beautiful shot of the city. What is going to unfold in that park behind you today?

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That is sort of the $64,000 question, Tony, isn't it? First of all, as you know with any march, weather is a huge, huge factor. And right now the weather is pretty good.

But there are some reports of showers maybe coming and that could affect the numbers. Last year they had some 400,000 people marching. Some people said that number was really more like 700,000. But in any way you look at it, it was a big success for the organizers who were mainly grass roots. This year, because the focus has really been on these immigration raids and the criminal raids that have taken place here in Chicago, there are some concern that that could damp (ph) down the numbers that turn out. Other people have said, no, that could actually encourage more people to turn out. So at this point, it's unclear what those numbers will actually be.

Now a couple of things that have been the focus this year. Those immigration raids. In addition to that, people have told us that they are marching for immigration reform. Last year the focus was on the Sensenbrenner Bill that passed the House, failed in the Senate.

Also, one area church, Tony, has been taking on a very emotional issue. It's an issue Lou Dobbs was talking about just a moment ago. And that's the issue -- what the church call as moral issue of splitting up families. Taking mothers and their children, taking them apart because the mother is illegal, the child is a USA citizen. Here's one story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN, (voice over): In this tiny Methodist church on Chicago's west side, Sunday service. When it ends, this woman will stay. She says maybe for years. She is Elvira Arellano, a symbol of what many say is wrong with U.S. immigration policy. In the eyes of the law, she is a criminal.

"No," she says, "I'm only a mother working to have the best for my son."

A mother to eight-year-old Saul, and that's what complicated this case. Arellano is Mexican, Saul is a U.S. citizen. He's got a right to stay here. But like three to four million other children, a parent who's illegal.

Like many immigrants in Chicago and around the country, legal or illegal, Elvira Arellano worked as a nanny. She cleaned houses. She did odd jobs. She was working cleaning airplanes making $7 an hour with no benefits when she was nabbed by federal agents who were clamping down on airport security.

Arellano was ordered deported. But for the past eight months, she's been living with Saul, claiming sanctuary in an apartment above the church.

Would you go back with her?

SAUL ARELLANO: No.

O'BRIEN: You wouldn't go back? You don't want to go back to Mexico? Why not?

ARELLANO: I have my friends here, my school.

O'BRIEN: So you would stay here without your mom? Saul won't say.

ROSANNA PULIDO, "YOU DON'T SPEAK FOR ME": I think she needs to be deported and take her son with her.

O'BRIEN: Rosanna Pulido is part of "You Don't Speak For Me." American-Hispanic voices speaking out against illegal immigrants.

There must be people who say, it's kind of heartless, whether you're talking about Elvira's case or any other case where you have a mother potentially being deported and a child who's an American citizen. Doesn't that sort of pull on your heart strings at all? Don't you feel for them? Not at all?

PULIDO: No. Again, again, American citizens are the victims.

O'BRIEN: Arellano has become a national poster child for both sides in the immigration debate. Those who say the laws break up families, and those who say illegal immigrants are taking advantage. So why haven't immigration officials arrested Elvira Arellano? They say their priority is national security and their job to enforce immigration laws, without regard for an alien's ability to generate media attention. Reverend Walter Coleman, who runs the church, has been doing just that, going on a hunger strike for more than three weeks.

REV. WALTER COLEMAN, METHODIST CHURCH IN CHICAGO: Do they have a right to the human dignity of being able to stay together with their families in a legal manner or are we going to just treat them like mules?

O'BRIEN: How long will Elvira stay?

COLEMAN: We're in God's time in this church and we'll be here as long as it takes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Well, you know, and as you well know, Tony, Chicago has this huge and well-known history of immigration. And so I think what you're going to see today is a lot of what you saw last year, which is the Poles and the Koreans and the Lithuanians and the Italians, et cetera, et cetera, others joining what has been primarily a Mexican protest, Puerto Ricans, too. A big Puerto Rican community here. And labor is joining this protest march as well.

And I think you're also going to see some changes. We've noticed on the corners where's they're selling flags, no Mexican flags that I've seen so far being sold. Only American flags. People thought last year the visual of some people, many people holding Mexican flags was a tough sell, if you will, to people who are watching the march around the country and so they're definitely tweak that this year.

HARRIS: You know, I'm curious about two things. Actually, Soledad, I'm wondering if the young people are being encouraged to stay in school or if they feel strongly about the issue to join the marches? And Elvira's story, I'm wondering, is it unique?

O'BRIEN: You know what's interesting. The young people actually are being encouraged to stay in school. Chicago is different from other cities that you certainly know about where the students were being encouraged to ditch school or where a boycott was encouraged. Not in Chicago. In Chicago they are saying no boycott and they're saying students stay in school.

And Elvira's story is not unique. Six hundred thousand is the estimate that we got from the immigration officials. Six hundred thousand people, illegal immigrants, who were supposed to show up for deportation and have not shown up. That's the number that we've been given. So her case is not unique at all.

HARRIS: Yes. CNN's Soledad O'Brien there in Chicago for us throughout the day.

Soledad, great to see you. Thanks.

O'BRIEN: And likewise.

COLLINS: So you want to be a citizen? The new test for immigrants who want to be Americans. Could you pass? We'll do a pop quiz, coming up in the NEWSROOM.

And arson investigators called to the scene of a record Georgia wildfire. That, too, coming up right here in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: OK. To the numbers now. Dow Jones Industrial averages down about 10, resting at 13,052, as if you can't read it for yourself. But, you know, we're fascinated by it because it's above 13,000. We're going to talk to Susan Lisovicz, who's back today, a little bit about what is happening and what may May look like. Get it?

HARRIS: Yes.

And among our top stories this morning, we are following reports of the death of a reputed terror leader in Iraq. Abu Ayyub al-Masri, head of al Qaeda in Iraq, said to have been killed in fighting with Sunni tribes. This has not been confirmed by the U.S. military or the Iraqi government. Iraqi security forces are trying to retrieve the body to perform DNA tests. Born in Egypt, al-Masri followed Abu Musab al-Zarqawi as head of the terrorist organization. Al Qaeda in Iraq has been blamed for much of that country's insurgent activity.

A bus between Baghdad and the Babil Province, the scene of a horrifying attack. Police say gunmen ambushed a mini bus killing 11 travelers. Three others critically wounded. Survivors said they played dead to keep from being shot. Three others were killed in a second attack nearby.

COLLINS: May Day in Turkey and there's violence in Istanbul's main square. Riot police charged crowds of leftist protesters that gathered to mark the 30th anniversary of the deadly May Day rally. Officers shot water cannons and tear gas to clear the crowd. Demonstrators kicked and clubbed (ph) as they fled. Authorities say some of the protesters were carrying guns, fire bombs and knives.

The square has been declared off limits to protesters. In a 1977 incident, a gunman opened fire on a huge crowd that had gathered for the rally. Thirty-four people were killed. Many of them in a stamped.

HARRIS: Bottom of the hour. Welcome back everyone to the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Tony Harris.

COLLINS: And I'm Heidi Collins. Good morning to you everybody. In northern California, a new test for bay area commuters. Today they'll be dealing with this, the collapsed Oakland freeway without the aid of free transportation. The state waived all fees yesterday to help relieve the traffic nightmare that was expected. It never materialized but officials warn it will take months to replace the overpass that linked Oakland to San Francisco.

On a related note, an investigation now under way into the truck driver who crashed the tanker and ignited the inferno that brought down the roadway. Records show he was both inexperienced and had a history of felony convictions.

HARRIS: What do you say we get everyone to Chad Myers in the severe weather center? Chad, what are you watching today?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Watching a storm in Texas and Oklahoma that just won't move. It's a cutoff flow. It's not in the flow. It's not getting pushed by the jet stream. It's just sitting there. Then there's another little area of shower activity over there in the desert that will kind of link together and eventually it'll move on out. But for right now over the next two or three days, Texas is going to be under the gun for some very heavy rainfall. In fact, I have some pictures from San Antonio picking up almost two inches of rainfall in San Antonio yesterday.

Two inches on an agricultural area is not so bad because it soaks in pretty good. You know, asphalt doesn't soak in too much water. Concrete doesn't either. We call this this urban flooding problem when you get the rain coming down too quickly and if you're going too quickly, your tires aren't going to be able to handle it and you will be spinning around and aquaplaning or hydroplaning problems. So be careful out there and don't be driving in any of that today if you don't have to. Even if you do have to, don't. Try to find a bridge somewhere that isn't down in one of those dry washes in the hill country today.

From Texas all of the way in Oklahoma down into Mexico, this red zone right there. That's the area we're most concerned with. But there's also another area up near Chicago and Cleveland and Pittsburgh. You guys could get some severe weather up north as well. A couple showers are moving into New York City as you heard Soledad saying, there was that threat of that up there. Those showers will be from the city southward all the way down to Atlantic and westward to Binghamton for the next hour or so, 89 in Atlanta today, 84, Memphis and a record breaking day yesterday in New Orleans at 87, today 84. Back to you guys.

HARRIS: All right, Chad. Thank you.

How about this exclusive I-report video to share with you. A train on truck accident and one lucky escape. Laura Kennedy shot this in Richmond, Texas. Did you see it? The truck straddling the tracks there on the right. Kennedy says she saw the driver get out and try to signal the 148-car train to stop but it didn't.

COLLINS: Probably couldn't.

HARRIS: The driver actually jumped back in the truck and was in there when the train split in half. Police told a local reporter the driver wasn't injured. Do you believe that? The train was fine, too, believe it or not, well, except for a broken windshield. OK. Remember, stay out of harm's way but if you see something newsworthy, send it to us at cnn.com. Man.

COLLINS: Unbelievable. I can't believe he went back in there and no injury. Psychologically there has to be some issues.

HARRIS: He was trying to save the day.

COLLINS: Very frightening. All right. Personal stories and political policy. Immigration issues in the spotlight this morning. We're going to talk with a Texas congressman coming up in the NEWSROOM.

HARRIS: So you want to be a citizen. The new test for immigrants who want to be Americans. Could you pass? Pop quiz in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: One man who knows a lot about legal and illegal immigration issues is Congressman Sylvester Reyes of Texas. He worked the border patrol for more than 25 years before joining Congress. Congressman Reyes joins us with more insight. Congressman, great to see you. Thanks for your time this morning.

REP. SILVESTRE REYES (D) TEXAS: Thank you. Good to be with you.

HARRIS: Wow, 26 1/2 years with the border patrol. You know what real immigration reform is going to look like when we're done with all the hand wringing and everything, the yelling, the screaming, the kicking and moaning. So let's have a bit of a discussion here. What will real immigration reform look like with respect to border security? Tell us.

REYES: Well, there are three very important components that I think need to be included in immigration reform. First one is border security. We need to focus on making sure that our borders, once and for all, have the necessary resources to secure our country.

HARRIS: What do you mean when you say resources? We'll get to the other two in a moment. Let's take them one at a time. What do you mean?

REYES: Well, we need to have -- since being in Congress, I've advocated growing the border patrol by 1500 agents a year. We have a very bad track record as a Congress for providing the resources to the border patrol, the INS and customs people, to give them the resources that they need to do their job. So we need to focus on that. Give them not just personnel but technology to act as force multipliers to be able to do their jobs. We also need to launch a full effort to work with the Canadian government and with the Mexican government to make sure that this is a partnership on the southern border and on the northern border.

HARRIS: You're talking about more border patrol personnel. That speaks to enforcement. What about deterrence? Does it need to be in some respects even-handed? You can talk about enforcement, but don't you also need to talk about some kind of deterrence program?

REYES: You do. That's why the other two points that are equally as important are a program that addresses those that are in our country. I see this, Tony, as a national security issue. We have a shadow world of between nine and 12 million people where people that might be here to harm us can move around our own country. We need to have a legalization program in this immigration reform that creates a reason for these people to come in, identify themselves --

HARRIS: You're talking about earned legalization, aren't you?

REYES: That's exactly right.

HARRIS: What does that look like? Really, drill this thing down for us. What does earned legalization look like? What does it feel like?

REYES: There are millions of people in this country living in our communities that have been here for years, for decades, that have, in most cases, citizen children. They have a stake in our country, that for all practical purposes have been part of the very fabric of our community. Those that qualify, those that -- and the immigration reform act, the strive act, allows them to pay a fine to legalize their status here. I think it makes sense both for them and for our country, mostly because it is a national security issue.

HARRIS: Do you believe at the end of the day we will end up with some kind of earned legalization program?

REYES: I think if there isn't an earned legalization program included in immigration reform, this whole thing will fail.

HARRIS: OK. At the end of the day, with respect to employer sanctions, what's the language? What are the sanctions?

REYES: Well, we -- it's a three-part issue. First of all, you've got to provide legalization for those that qualify that are here. Secondly, we have to have -- whatever you call it, a guest worker program, a temporary worker program to provide those that don't qualify an opportunity to be here and do the jobs that we know they have been doing that are important to our economy. There also has to be a component in there so that -- because everybody's worried that in another 20 years or so, we're going to recreate this whole issue if we don't address it comprehensively. There has to be a law that allows employers to check and verify the status of individuals that apply for jobs. We can do that a number of ways. We can do it through the temporary worker system. The most reasonable way is to do something like H.R. 98 which Congressman Dreier and I have cosponsored for three Congresses. And that is to have a fraud-proof Social Security card that people can verify once they apply for jobs.

HARRIS: So I want to ask you, you've written legislation on this, no one knows more about this than you, 26 years with the border patrol. And why hasn't it passed and I suspect the reason that it hasn't passed is because there is so much heat around this subject. You want to talk about heat? Here is Lou Dobbs from just a short time ago with Heidi Collins.

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LOU DOBBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Why in the world, because Mexico sits in proximity, is contiguous to the United States, should the citizens of that country be given a free ride on the backs of legal, lawful immigrants and American citizens? It's absurd.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: So congressman, your legislation hasn't passed because of sentiments like those expressed by Lou Dobbs? That's it, that's all.

REYES: You know, the worst part about the politics of this issue are that people interject Mexico and undocumented Mexicans in this whole issue. In reality more than 40 percent of those that are in this country without documentation are from other nations. The reason they want to put in and speak against Mexico is because we share a 2,000-mile border with that country. We need to get over that. We need to think about our own security. We need to look at this issue realistically from a national security perspective. And we need to pass comprehensive immigration reform. I really think that to put out this red herring about amnesty and about law breakers and all of those kinds of things make it very, very counter productive to get this legislation done.

HARRIS: Congressman --

REYES: ...And against our best interest, I might add.

HARRIS: Congressman Reyes, thanks for your time this morning, appreciate it.

REYES: Thank you.

COLLINS: A show of support for the top brass. The commander in chief heads to U.S. central command. Details on that coming up in the NEWSROOM. And an Iraq without U.S. troops? What will the country look like if American GIs packed up and left. Tell you more about that coming up in the NEWSROOM.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange. Lowering oil prices but raising environmental concerns. When NEWSROOM continues, I'll tell you about a reported new plan from the Bush administration. You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Save money now so you can live comfortably later? Sounds easy enough. Here's Stephanie Elam with the benefits of putting cash into your 401(k).

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Seventy 70 percent of workers have some money set aside for retirement. That's according to the Employee Benefit Research Institute. That's the good news. But they also point out that nearly two-thirds have less than $50,000 saved. not necessarily enough to live comfortably in your retirement years. So to increase your savings take advantage of your company's 401(k) savings plan. In 2006, 36 percent of those plans offered a 100 percent match. That's according to Mercer Human Research Consulting and that's up 26 percent from 2002. Don't forget this, it's free money.

Also, consider this, some experts say that at age 25 every dollar you save could be worth $8 at age 65 adjusted for inflation. But at age 40, every dollar you save could be worth just $3. So the point is the earlier you start saving, the more time your money has to grow. It's never too early to start saving money now. Stephanie Elam, CNN, New York.

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COLLINS: More oil rigs may soon be seen along the coast of Alaska and Virginia. But there's one big problem. Some of those areas are environmentally sensitive. Susan Lisovicz is at the New York Stock Exchange to tell us about the latest in a long-running debate about energy versus the environment. First of all, welcome back, Susan.

LISOVICZ: It's great to be back Heidi. It's great to be working with you again. The Bush administration proposing that nearly 50 million acres be opened up for oil and gas drilling. The locations off the coast of Virginia, Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico. Most of those environmentally sensitive areas have been closed to drilling for many years. Virginia is covered by laws that ban new drilling so the administration's proposal will not allow drilling within 50 miles of the shore and include measures designed to protect against damage from oil spills. Heidi.

COLLINS: No doubt this is setting off alarm bells for environmentalists. I mean, we've heard these types of debates before.

LISOVICZ: That's right and it certainly just in Congress, the Democratic Congress, criticizing the plan. Others say the protective measures aren't enough. For instance, they point to the massive Exxon Valdez spill as an example saying oil traveled hundreds of miles in just a matter of weeks. As for Alaska, some of the proposed drilling areas are in places where drilling is allowed but none have been tapped before. In fact, one of the areas, Bristol Bay, was closed off in 1989 after the Exxon spill but that ban has since been lifted. Congress has 60 days to object to the administration's plan. So we have not heard the end of it by any means.

Eventually, more domestically produced oil could lower the price at the pump. For now, expect prices to keep going up. The Energy Department says the national average for a gallon of regular gas is now $2.97, up 10 cents from just last week. So if you're not seeing $3 of gas a gallon yet, you will soon. The average in California is now $3.36 a gallon. As for the markets, well, a mixed performance so far. We've got another weak housing report. New manufacturing data shows inflation pressures persist. But we know how strong the Dow industrials have been. And they are managing some modest gains despite that. Blue chip right now, 15 points. Nasdaq down 7 points or a 1/4 percent. Hey, Heidi.

COLLINS: You know what?

LISOVICZ: What?

COLLINS: When I was off, it went above 13. I was thinking of you running around the woods learning how to defend myself at war training. Susan Lisovicz, it's over 13.

LISOVICZ: It's kind of like an urban combat just being on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. Perhaps your training should be here, too, Heidi.

COLLINS: Well, I could use a lot of that. Susan Lisovicz, nice to see you. Thank you.

LISOVICZ: Thanks, Heidi.

HARRIS: And still to come this morning, a no nonsense Phoenix lawman. He says he is doing what the Feds can't or won't, jailing illegal immigrants.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone that crosses that border should be arrested for violating a Federal law and put in jail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Hard as nails. Prison strikes, pink underwear, jail tents, the sheriff who does it his way, in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Cuban President Fidel Castro a no show at a massive May Day event in his country. His brother Raul and other dignitaries appeared before a crowd of hundreds of thousands. But the Cuban leader was not forgotten. Someone shouted viva Fidel, the 81-year-old president has been in frail health since his intestinal surgery nine months ago. Some observers thought he had recovered enough to attend today's events as he has for years.

COLLINS: On the streets, demanding changes in immigration laws, protesting deportations. Immigration nation, day long coverage on CNN, your most trusted name in news.

HARRIS: The U.S. says he calls the shots for al Qaeda in Iraq. Now, is he on the receiving end of the shots? Al Masri, dead or alive, in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And good morning, again, everyone. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. You're informed. I'm Tony Harris.

COLLINS: Hi everybody. I'm Heidi Collins.

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