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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Amnesty Agenda; President Bush Speech on Veto of War Funding Bill
Aired May 01, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Tonight, tens of thousands of people, far fewer than last year, are taking part in nationwide protests, demanding amnesty for illegal aliens.
We'll have complete coverage for you from all around the country.
Also tonight, the Bush administration and top Democrats determined to impose amnesty legislation on American citizens.
We'll have that special report.
And President Bush has just vetoed the war spending bill that calls for the withdrawal of all of our combat troops from Iraq. The president is about to make a live statement in a matter of minutes to the nation.
We'll have live coverage of that statement as soon as it begins, the Democratic response, and much more. All the days news coming straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Tuesday, May 1st.
Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
The pro-illegal alien lobby today mobilized tens of thousands of protesters and demonstrators demanding amnesty for as many as 20 million illegal aliens in this country. At the same time, pro-amnesty Democrats and the pro-amnesty Bush administration stepping up their efforts to force the American citizen to accept amnesty legislation.
Casey Wian reports tonight from Los Angeles on the pro-amnesty protests and demonstrations coast to coast.
Christine Romans reports from Phoenix, Arizona, on the pro- amnesty marches there.
Lisa Sylvester reporting from Washington on the political battle over amnesty legislation.
We turn first to Casey Wian in Los Angeles -- Casey.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, Los Angeles County is home to more than a million illegal aliens, more than any other county in the nation. So it's no surprise that the largest turnout among pro- amnesty marchers is right here.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN (voice over): They draped themselves in the American flag, demanding amnesty for millions of illegal aliens who broke American law.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm an immigrant. I'm not legal. I'm in the process. But we're united, we can do something.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just want to have amnesty.
WIAN: From Los Angeles to Orlando, from Denver to Detroit, tens of thousands marched.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We definitely want to have better treatment, and we want to find a way to legalize our situation.
WIAN: While American flags dominated, others were plentiful, as were signs like this one proclaiming a "World Without Borders". Turnout was expected to be lower than last year, when protesters were trying to defeat the Sensenbrenner border security bill. This year, marchers want Immigration and Customs Enforcement to stop raiding work places and deporting fugitive illegal aliens.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're here to say that the raids and the deportations that have been escalated over the last year are wrong and unjust, and that immigrants are here to work and they're not criminals. And that we think that the best solution to this problem is legalization with full rights for all the undocumented.
WIAN: A solution the Heritage Foundation says would cost U.S. taxpayers more than $50 billion a year. But marchers were not focused on costs, only entitlement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's everyone's country. It's not just my country or a Mexican's country, or any country. It's everyone's.
WIAN: Not everyone attending the marches agreed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We close the borders and make sure that Americans don't have to foot the bill for the illegal immigration situation.
WIAN: The message from march organizers, any enforcement of immigration law is inhumane.
JAVIER RODRIGUEZ, MARCH ORGANIZER: We want a stop to the campaign of terror that has been implemented by the Bush administration.
WIAN: Rodriguez even claimed the boycott shut down the Port of Los Angeles, the nation's largest. The port's spokeswoman denies that, saying cargo continues to move through and operations are normal.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: The Los Angeles Police Department says it will not release official estimates of the number of participants in today's L.A. marches until much later today, perhaps tonight -- Lou.
DOBBS: A world without borders.
WIAN: That's what most of these folks are advocating. We just heard some speeches going on behind me where people talked about all of the countries in North and South America should be united as one. That is one of the clear motivating factors behind a lot of these marches -- Lou.
DOBBS: Casey, thank you very much.
Casey Wian in Los Angeles.
In Phoenix, far fewer demonstrators than a year ago turning out to demand rights for illegal aliens.
Christine Romans is there. She has our report -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the Phoenix Police Department is officially estimating how many people were here today, 15,000 to 20,000. It is quiet here now, but the message was consistent and careful. They want amnesty for the people who are already here illegally, and they want an expanded guest worker program for those who want to come here to work -- Lou.
DOBBS: Christine, the idea that they not only want a guest worker program, but they want amnesty, is there anything else being sought here?
ROMANS: There's a feeling here that the United States is a land of plenty and that the United States can absorb anybody who wants to come here to work. And the people who are already here should be treated just as American citizens -- Lou.
DOBBS: Christine, thank you very much.
Christine Romans from Phoenix.
In Chicago, tens of thousands of demonstrators there marching through the streets, converging on the city center. They were voicing support for open borders, amnesty for illegal aliens.
Soledad O'Brien with our report -- Soledad.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN COLLINS: Hey, Lou. This is where the march has ended. It's Grant Park, and you can see it's pretty big. It's like 300-plus acres.
Now, the marchers began at 1:30 this afternoon, and they're still streaming in. That's, you know, three and a half hours later.
The marchers went out somewhere between two and three miles. And along the way, the folks we talked to said the same thing, they want amnesty, many said they want respect. Many people we spoke to who are American citizens said they just want some kind of comprehensive policy that will have some kind of practical approach to what to do with the estimated 12 to, as you point out, 20 million illegals who are already in the country.
The Chicago Police Department put the official count somewhere at 150,000. I expect that number is going to change, though -- Lou.
DOBBS: Even that would be a good turnout, but far, far short of last year's demonstration in Chicago.
Soledad, thank you very much.
Soledad O'Brien from Chicago.
Here in New York, thousands of protesters marching through Manhattan to a rally in a downtown park.
Allan Chernoff has our report -- Allan.
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SR. CORRESPONDENT: Lou, last year, tens of thousands were here. Today, only several thousand, I would say. No more than 4,000 at the peak. And as you can see behind me, the rally has cleared out by now.
The coalition of organizers, a group of labor, religious and, of course, immigrant groups, they said they weren't all that surprised because there was no great spark this year, no bill in the House that was approved that would actually label illegal aliens as felons -- Lou.
DOBBS: Allan, thank you.
Allan Chernoff from New York.
Up next, President Bush has vetoed -- just vetoed that war spending bill calling for the withdrawal of our troops from Iraq. The president about to address the nation. We'll be back with that just as soon as it begins, live from the White House, next.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: As we reported to you, President Bush has just within the last 15 minutes, about, vetoed the legislation, the war funding bill, a $124 billion bill that would have withdrawn, according to its timetable, our troops from Iraq by spring of next year. The president is about to address the nation. He has asked all of the networks for air time.
I want go now to Ed Henry, our White House correspondent.
Ed, first, how many of the networks, as far as you know, have agreed to provide the president that time? ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You know, I've been canvassing my colleagues at other networks.
Here's the president right now.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... Congress to pass an emergency war spending bill that would provide our brave men and women in uniform with the funds and flexibility they need. Instead, members of the House and the Senate passed a bill that substitutes the opinions of politicians for the judgment of our military commanders. So a few minutes ago, I vetoed the bill.
Tonight, I will explain the reasons for this veto and my desire to work with Congress to resolve this matter as quickly as possible. We can begin tomorrow with a bipartisan meeting with the congressional leaders here at the White House.
Here's why the bill Congress passed is unacceptable.
First, the bill would mandate a rigid and artificial deadline for American troops to begin withdrawing from Iraq. That withdrawal could start as early as July 1st, and it would have to start no later than October 1st, regardless of the situation on the ground.
It makes no sense to tell the enemy when you plan to start withdrawing. All the terrorists would have to do is mark their calendars and gather their strength and begin plotting how to overthrow the government and take control of the country of Iraq.
I believe setting a deadline for a withdrawal would demoralize the Iraqi people, would encourage killers across the broader Middle East, and send a signal that America will not keep its commitments. Setting a deadline for withdrawal is setting a date for failure. And that would be irresponsible.
Second, the bill would impose impossible conditions on our commanders in combat. After forcing most of our troops to withdraw, the bill would dictate the terms on which the remaining commanders and troops could engage the enemy.
That means America's commanders in the middle of a combat zone would have to take fighting directions from politicians 6,000 miles away in Washington, D.C. This is a prescription for chaos and confusion, and we must not impose it on our troops.
Third, any bill is loaded with billions of dollars in non- emergency spending that has nothing to do with fighting the war on terror. Congress should debate these spending measures on their own merits, and not as part of an emergency funding bill for our troops.
The Democratic leaders know that many in Congress disagree with their approach and that there are not enough votes to override the veto. I recognize that many Democrats saw this bill as an opportunity to make a political statement about their opposition to the war. They've sent their message, and now it is time to put politics behind us and support our troops with the funds they need.
Our troops are carrying out a new strategy with a new commander, General David Petraeus. The goal of this new strategy is to help the Iraqis secure their capital so they can make progress toward reconciliation and build a free nation that respects the rights of its people, upholds the rule of law, and fights extremists and radicals and killers alongside the United States in this war on terror.
In January, General Petraeus was confirmed by a unanimous vote in the United States Senate. In February, we began sending the first of the reinforcements he requested. Not all these reinforcements have arrived in Baghdad. And as General Petraeus has said, it will be the end of the summer before we can assess the impact of this operation. Congress ought to give General Petraeus' plan a chance to work.
In the month since our military has been implementing this plan, we've begun to see some important results. For example, Iraqi and coalition forces have closed down an al Qaeda car bomb network. They have captured a Shia militia leader implicated in the kidnapping and killing of American soldiers. They've broken up a death squad that had terrorized hundreds of residents in a Baghdad neighborhood.
Last week, General Petraeus was in Washington to brief me, and he briefed members of Congress on how the operation is unfolding. He noted that one of the most important indicators of progress is the level of sectarian violence in Baghdad. And he reported that since January, the number of sectarian murders has dropped substantially.
Even as sectarian attacks have declined, we continue to see spectacular suicide attacks that have caused great suffering. These attacks are largely the work of al Qaeda, the enemy that every one agrees we should be fighting. The objective to these al Qaeda attacks is to subvert our efforts by reigniting the sectarian violence in Baghdad and breaking support for the war here at home.
In Washington last week, General Petraeus explained it this way: "Iraq is, in fact, the central front of all al Qaeda's global campaign." Al Qaeda's role makes the conflict in Iraq far more complex than a simple fight between Iraqis.
It's true that not everyone taking innocent life in Iraq wants to attack America here at home. But many do. Many also belong to the same terrorist network that attacked us on September the 11th, 2001, and wants to attack us here at home again.
We saw the death and destruction al Qaeda inflicted on our people when they were permitted a safe haven in Afghanistan. For the security of the American people, we must not allow al Qaeda to establish a new safe haven in Iraq.
We need to give our troops all the equipment and the training and protection they need to prevail. That means that Congress needs to pass an emergency war spending bill quickly.
I've invited leaders of both parties to come to the White House tomorrow and to discuss how we can get these vital funds to our troops. I'm confident that with goodwill on both sides, we can agree on a bill that gets our troops the money and flexibility they need as soon as possible.
The need to act is urgent.
Without a war funding bill, the military has to take money from some other account or training program so the troops in combat have what they need. Without a war funding bill, the armed forces will have to consider cutting back on buying new equipment or repairing existing equipment. Without a war funding bill, we add to the uncertainty felt by our military families.
Our troops and their families deserve better, and their elected leaders can do better.
Here in Washington, we have our differences on the way forward in Iraq, and we will debate them openly. Yet, whatever our differences, surely we can agree that our troops are worthy of this funding, and that we have a responsibility to get it to them without further delay.
Thank you for listening. May God bless our troops.
DOBBS: President Bush delivering his rationale and explanation for why he has just vetoed the war funding bill, the $124 billion bill.
I want to bring in Ed Henry, our White House correspondent.
Ed, the president saying that basically, that he believes he can work with this Congress. Your take?
HENRY: Well, Lou, he's been saying that for days now, trying to strike maybe a more conciliatory tone, suggesting there could be a compromise in the offing. But the fact of the matter is, in the next breath, the president, in all of these speeches, just as he just did now, says he's not giving an inch, he's not budging at all on the central part of this fight, which is a timetable for withdrawing U.S. troops.
So, as you know, a compromise is both sides giving in, and giving on something to try to forge some middle ground. The fact is, the president is not budging at all on a timetable.
So, what's most likely to happen, various Democrats floating the idea of benchmarks, coming up with some -- some benchmarks for the Iraqi government to meet instead of an actual timetable. The potential problem there, of course, is there may not really be any teeth to the benchmarks because the White House has made clear, if there's any teeth it to, if there's any -- well, if they don't meet the benchmarks, then we have to withdraw U.S. troops, the president is still not going to agree -- Lou.
DOBBS: Ed, I want to interrupt you just for a second. We have just received word that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi -- House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid will also make a response, deliver their remarks here in just a matter of moments, as we take a look there, awaiting their arrival.
Ed, I want to go to one thing. And that is, the fact of the matter is, irrespective of anything else, the president, in vetoing this legislation, has given -- taken the advantage in the politics and the balance of this thing because of the necessity of funding our troops, hasn't he?
HENRY: Well, certainly. The Democrats do not want to be in the position of not sending money to the troops. So that's why it's very likely you're going to see them in relatively short order come up with a bill that does not have a timetable.
That's not a certainty, but it's likely to happen, that they'll pull the actual timetable, because you're right. Of course the Democrats do not want to be put in a position where they're cutting off funding for the troops.
But the other political reality for the president on the flip side is that each time the Democrats in recent months have had a vote on a timetable, they're getting more and more votes. So it's moving against the president over time -- Lou.
DOBBS: And let's bring in our colleague Andrea Koppel -- Andrea on Capitol Hill.
Andrea, the mood amongst the Democratic leadership in both the House and the Senate on this issue?
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The mood is pretty good, Lou. They had their big signing ceremony earlier today, something that they could have easily done behind closed doors.
They feel well placed because they know that the polls -- that is, the American people, the majority of them, are firmly behind them. But clearly, as Ed was just laying out there, there is still the conundrum.
They know that they can only play this so much longer before that money really does run out. And so they have got to figure out a compromise
DOBBS: How much longer does the Democratic leadership think that it can continue to take the position that it has?
KOPPEL: Well, we've heard the majority leader, Harry Reid, say that he would like to get a bill to the president by the end of this month. That is, before Memorial Day. But the difficulty, Lou, is going to be bringing along the party's left wing, the anti-war left wing, which has a significant presence over -- at least on the House side. And it's going to be to try to -- how do you get a bill that funds the troops, and yet one that isn't going to alienate the left wing?
That's going to be the challenge for the Democratic leaders between now and the end of the month. DOBBS: If you will, the (INAUDIBLE) party politics are one part of the dilemma facing the Democrats, but have you heard the leadership in either the House or the Senate discuss the fact that that funding has to be provided and that those polls, which you correctly point out, support the Democratic leadership on this issue, the withdrawal of troops, that those would be very volatile numbers and likely to reverse themselves should the Democrats be portrayed or perceived as responsible for not providing all of the aid and material and money to our troops required?
KOPPEL: Absolutely, Lou. You're 100 percent correct.
They recognize that the money is going to run out. Even the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service says that the money will run out by some time in July. So they know that the clock is ticking.
DOBBS: Right.
Well, I want to thank you, Andrea Koppel.
And I want to thank you, Ed Henry.
We're going to bring you back as soon as Senator Harry Reid, the Senate majority leader, and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi appear before cameras to give their response to the president's brief address this evening in announcing the reasons and the rationale for vetoing the $124 billion war funding bill and a timetable for withdrawal of our troops.
Thank you both.
And three of the countries top radio talk show hosts will be joining us here in the broadcast later, telling us what their listeners are thinking about the political showdown over Iraq and today's nationwide pro-amnesty protests.
We'll also have more live reports from those amnesty demonstrations all across the country. One of the country's most outspoken supporters and advocates for illegal aliens and amnesty is Janet Murguia, president and chief executive officer of the National Council of La Raza. She joins me here.
We'll have all of that, a great deal more, as we continue.
We're coming right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Thousands of demonstrators, far fewer than last year, took to the streets across the nation, demanding amnesty and a path to citizenship for illegal aliens. They marched in Phoenix, Arizona, just two hours from the Mexican border, and often the first stop for many illegal aliens entering the country. Supporters and advocates calling for amnesty, guest worker programs, an end to immigration raids, and an end to deportations.
Christine Romans has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS (voice over): From the fairgrounds, to the state capitol, thousands demonstrated on the streets of Phoenix, demanding amnesty. The marchers were instructed by organizers to wear white shirts and carry the American flag. Strollers, students, family and church groups marched in 90-degree-plus desert heat
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're here to make a difference. We're here to fight for our people
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want a fair immigration reform for everybody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anybody that does not have food or a place to live should be able to come to America. We have more than enough for everybody.
ROMANS: This man says he is supporting his wife, who is here illegally.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I came here 22 years ago, I have my own business. I have two houses. I've got my family. But, you know, mom doesn't have legal documents.
ROMANS: This woman wants immigration raids to stop.
This couple came illegally 10 years ago. Their children are American. They're waiting now for amnesty from President Bush.
This man's shirt says the border with Mexico is the new Ellis Island.
Scattered counter-protests...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're taking jobs that Americans will do at a living wage.
ROMANS: ... but for the most part, a careful and consistent message: amnesty for people already here, and expanded guest worker programs for those who want to come.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Lou, 15,000 to 20,000 people here today, more than expected, but far less than last year, when 100,000 people took to these streets. The police say there were no arrests today. They called this a peaceful rally -- Lou.
DOBBS: Excellent. Thank you very much.
Christine Romans from Phoenix.
In Los Angeles, thousands of illegal alien supporters marched to demand amnesty. Casey Wian reporting from the site of the country's largest march -- Casey.
WIAN: Well, Lou, it probably doesn't look like the site of the country's largest march right now because the protesters have just ended their rallies here in downtown Los Angeles. They're moving to another part of the city, marching from Korea Town to MacArthur Park.
As Christine mentioned, the rallies here were much smaller than last year. Over a half a million were reported to have participated in these marches last year. Far short of that this year.
Last year, of course, marchers were motivated, galvanized by the House border security bill sponsored by James Sensenbrenner. That's what brought most of these folks out last year.
This year, what they're angry about are those ICE raids that have been going on at work sites around the country, and the deportations of fugitive illegal aliens. Most of the marchers here say they want absolute, almost unconditional amnesty for all of those who are in this country illegally. And that's what they're marching about.
One other interesting note is we saw nearly as many banners and signs mentioning the war in Iraq, in opposition to the war in Iraq, as we saw opposing immigration law enforcement -- Lou.
DOBBS: That's surprising.
Also surprising to me, Casey, and I'd like your thought on this, last year there was a considerable backlash. I think most of the organizers of those marches last year would agree with this. It was not helpful to the cause of illegal aliens or their cries for amnesty or open borders.
This year, it seems like even though there are far fewer numbers, there's a greater revelation of the agenda here. Talking about not only amnesty, but expanding guest worker programs, now also wanting no deportations, and stopping raids on the employers of illegal aliens.
The agenda seems to be broadening, and rather substantially.
WIAN: Absolutely. Last year's marches and rallies were about as close to grassroots as you can get. This year, even though there were fewer numbers, they were much more efficiently organized, if you will. And the message was a lot more consistent this year than it was last year.
One example of that is the number of American flags you saw. Many marchers last year were criticized for waving the flags of other nations, this year, it was mostly the American flag, Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much. Casey Wian from Los Angeles. I'm told -- there are the Democratic leaders for the Speaker and House, Speaker Pelosi and Senator Reid
SEN. HARRY REID, (D) NV: A bipartisan majority of Congress sent the president a bill to fully fund our troops and change the mission in Iraq. The president refused to sign this bill. That is his right but now he has an obligation to explain his plan to responsibly end this war.
In the coming days, we will continue to reach out to the president and we hope congressional Republicans who remained silent, congressional Republicans through this whole debate, will work with us as well. But if the president thinks by vetoing this bill he will stop us to stop working on changing the direction of the war in Iraq, he is mistaken.
REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D) CA: Thank you, Mr. Leader.
Earlier today, the leader and I sent to the president a bill that made a strong commitment to support our men and women in uniform and a strong commitment to honor our promises to our veterans.
This is a bill that was worthy of the sacrifice of our men and women in uniform. It was a bill that honored and respected the wishes of the American people, to have benchmarks, to have guidelines, to have standards for what is happening in Iraq.
Again, out of respect for the wishes of the American people.
We had hoped that the president would have treated it with the respect that a bipartisan legislation supported overwhelmingly by the American people deserved.
Instead, the president vetoed the bill outright, and, frankly, misrepresented what this legislation does. This bill supports the troops. In fact, it gives the president more than he asked for, for our troops. And well they deserve it. They have done their duties excellently. They have done everything that has been asked of them.
All of this, without, in some cases, the training, the equipment and a plan for success for them.
The president wants a blank check. The Congress is not going to give it to him. The president said, in his comments, that he did not believe in timelines, and he spoke out very forcefully against them, yet in 1999, June 5th, then Governor Bush said, about President Clinton, "I think it's important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they would be withdrawn."
Despite his past statements, President Bush refuses to apply the same standard to his own activities.
Standards. That's the issue. If the president thinks that what is happening on the ground in Iraq now is progress, as he said in his comments tonight, then it's clear to see why we have a disagreement on policy with him.
I agree with Leader Reid. We look forward to working with the president to find common ground, but there is great distance between us right now. Thank you. DOBBS: Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate majority leader, Senator Harry Reid, both offering a Democratic response. Let's bring in Andrea Koppel, our Capitol Hill correspondent, Rd Henry, our White House correspondent.
Andrea, as you listened to both Senator Reid and Nancy Pelosi, the majority leader and the speaker did not respond to what the president said, but rather, as the president defended his veto, they seemed to defend their legislation.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Lou. It's bit of a blame game. Who's going to be held responsible? But what you heard from, especially Speaker Pelosi, was an acknowledgement that she knows which side the Democrats bread is buttered, and that is the anti-war movement in this country.
And so it was an acknowledgement to those people that put Democrats in power here on Capitol Hill in November that we did what we promised we would do, but it was the president, over at the White House, who's keeping you from getting your troops home.
DOBBS: Ed Henry, as you listened to the president today, as we listened to the speaker and the Senate majority leader, both said they were willing to work with one another. And that is rhetoric, as you pointed out earlier we have heard from the president, at least, over the last few days.
Both the president and Speaker Pelosi and Leader Reid have to understand that there has been a significant escalation of the political jeopardy here, as they confront over this issue.
ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. I mean, in the end, all sides could end up being blamed if there's no solution.
You can point fingers all day. Fingers have been pointed for years now over this war. A lot of Democrats like Harry Reid, of course, first supported the war. The president made a lot out of that. Now they turned against it. You will remember the day after the last election, Harry Reid insisted that the Democrats would not vote to cut off funding for the war.
He is now a co-sponsor of a bill that would just do that. And as Andrea pointed out, the left has gotten stronger and stronger in pushing the Democrats to being more anti-war. And in the end we will have to wait and see who pays a political price for it.
But I think the bottom line is that the American people are looking at this debate and see the finger-pointing. What they're really looking for is a solution to move forward, Lou.
DOBBS: Ed Henry, thank you very much from the White House, Andrea Koppel, thank you from Capitol Hill.
Coming up here next, those pro amnesty protests and demonstrations in Washington, DC and the political battle over amnesty. One of the biggest advocates of illegal alien amnesty is Jennifer Dia, president and CEO of the National Council of La Raza, I'll be talking to her about her impression of today's marches and demonstrations.
And coming up here, three of the country's top radio show hosts telling us what their listeners are saying about those rallies and marches around the country. Stay with us. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Illegal aliens and their supporters marching in Washington, DC as well today where the battle over granting amnesty to millions of illegal aliens continues to divide both Republicans and Democrats. Lisa Sylvester reports now on those rallies and the state of the amnesty agenda on Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Washington, protesters march from the Democratic national headquarters to the GOP headquarters. At a city park, another rally. Demonstrators voice their demands of Congress.
MARCO DEL FUEGO, PROTESTER: General amnesty for all those that qualify. Without costs, without charges, without people having to be removed to back to their countries in order to reapply. Without conditions, general amnesty, just like it was done in 1986.
SYLVESTER: Blanket amnesty is opposed by many lawmakers and the majority of the public. On Capitol Hill, a group of Democrats is meeting with conservative Republicans. They're searching for a compromise that will bridge the two political sides. Senator Kennedy is spearheading that effort.
SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY, (D) MA: We face a critical choice between a future as a nation of immigrants or a future measured by higher walls and longer fences.
SYLVESTER: Among the proposals, a merit points system based on an illegal alien's work history, English proficiency and education level.
Another option, a trigger plan. That calls for a guest worker program and citizenship for illegal aliens, but only after enforcement measures are in place.
SEN. JOHNNY ISAKSON, (R) GEORGIA: It can't just be a promise. We have got to obligate the Congress of the United States to appropriate the money, to build the barriers, to put in the employment verification system.
SYLVESTER: Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has set aside the last two weeks of May for the immigration debate but compromise legislation that is reached in the Senate could hit a dead-end in the House.
ROSEMARY JENKS, NUMBERSUSA: The basic problem is the Senate is starting its negotiations from amnesty as a foregone conclusion. The House is saying very clearly, we can't vote for amnesty.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER (on camera): And Lou, here in Washington, this crowd has really thinned out. But even at its peak, they only had 300 to 400 people, nothing like what we saw last year. Here they are, as in the other cities that we heard from, they are demanding amnesty and end to the deportations. Even as lawmakers are on Capitol Hill in effort to forge a compromise, they're move in the opposite direction and talking about stepped up enforcement. Lou?
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you very much.
Lisa Sylvester from Washington. That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll question. Do you believe the Bush administration and the Democratically led Congress should first secure our ports and borders before discussing comprehensive immigration reform? Yes or no. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. Results upcoming.
Supporters demanding amnesty for illegal aliens tonight are continuing rallies around the country are in far fewer numbers than a year ago as thousands declare their support for amnesty and citizenship for illegal alliance, some demonstrators also criticizing recent immigration raids.
Joining me now with her perspective on today's marches and the issue about what should be done about illegal immigration in this country is Janet Murguia. She is president and CEO of the National Council of La Raza. Janet, always good to talk with you.
JANET MURGUIA, NATIONAL COUNCIL OF LA RAZA: Thank you.
DOBBS: You just heard one fellow in Lisa's report saying not only should there be amnesty, it should be general amnesty, it should be general amnesty and now there should be no conditions on it whatsoever. We've heard reports around the country. Now it is not just amnesty, it is also an enlarged guest worker program. It is -- We're just a world without borders. I mean this agenda is expanding, isn't it?
MURGUIA: Well, for some, it might be. But I want to be really clear. And I know that as you opened the segment with me, you said I support and my organization supports amnesty for illegal aliens.
I want to be really clear about this Lou and I want to clarify again, that we support comprehensive immigration reform. And with that, we know that we have to have an earned path to citizenship. There has to be earned legalization. I don't think it's realistic to think that you can have unqualified access to citizenship.
DOBBS: Well, that fellow is going to be pretty disappointed.
MURGUIA: He is. But we want to get a bill that address this in a real way and solution and it has to be comprehensive. So it means that we have to have enforcement and security. It means that we have to deal with the undocumented immigrants who have been here and we have to deal with the future flow.
DOBBS: The future flow.
MURGUIA: You can't pick this apart and say, we can lock up our borders and then we will deal with this other issue. You have to ...
DOBBS: That's where you and I -- we can't do it together. This government can't even secure its borders individually without the issue of immigration before it. This government, in none of the bills before either the Senate or the Congress, provide for the expansion of the CIS. This bill, as it's now ...
MURGUIA: There's a bill in Congress in both the Senate and the House that have called for comprehensive immigration reform in a bipartisan way with business, industry immigrant groups and faith based groups like the Catholic Church who want to make sure ....
DOBBS: Now you have me scared to death.
MURGUIA: This is a bipartisan bill where there is consensus among the American public who want a solution to this ...
DOBBS: There is not consensus.
MURGUIA: They are tired of people talking about the problem and they want a bipartisan comprehensive solution.
DOBBS: Yeah. Janet -- The most recent NBC "Wall Street Journal" poll showed that immigration is one of the top three issues in this country facing the American people. The fact is the American people want in poll after poll our borders secured. This president has been promising ...
MURGUIA: They want the problem solved, Lou. They want the borders secured and they want to deal with the undocumented immigrants who have been here. That's consistent with our traditional and principles and the patriotism we have as Americans of dealing with this in a real sensible practical way
DOBBS: Let's talk about -- Let's examine the seriousness of this call. Why is not your organization or any other advocate for illegal aliens or the - please -- calling for -- let's just go through a few issues. Why not renouncing entirely demands for dual citizenship and prohibiting? Why not?
Why not eliminate bilingual education and embrace English as the official language? Why not insist the illegal employers of illegal aliens in this country bear the social, medical and educational expense that has been borne by American taxpayers? Why should there be an amnesty for those illegal workers?
MURGUIA: Nobody is talking about amnesty. I'm telling you, we know that we need to have ...
DOBBS: We don't need to quibble over this.
MURGUIA: We do.
DOBBS: You call it comprehensive, I'll call it amnesty and we'll move on.
MURGUIA: But I think there's a distinction. I think you create a term ...
DOBBS: Do you make a distinction between immigration and illegal immigration?
MURGUIA: I make a distinction between what we're calling an earned path to citizenship where people have to learn English, pay fines, pay back taxes ....
DOBBS: Do you make a distinction between illegal immigration and immigration?
MURGUIA: Yes. I think we have to make sure ...
DOBBS: We bring over 2 million people into this country lawfully every year. Why should a group of people, predominantly from the country of Mexico be given precedence over all those people in line to enter this country lawfully?
MURGUIA: We have a way to solve this solution, Lou, and you know it. We can deal with it by dealing with addressing border enforcement issues, addressing the undocumented immigrants who are in this country and future flow of workers. There is a comprehensive bill that would do this and it is supported by bipartisan members and we should move it forward because the majority of American people want a comprehensive solution.
They do and you can cite your polls but I can show polls that show that people do want that and willing to support that.
DOBBS: Let's do this. Let's have the American people for once be represented in those polls and be represented in Washington, DC. I'd be perfectly happy with a result if American citizens are represented for once in Washington, DC.
MURGUIA: Well, there's a lot of voices in Washington
DOBBS: There sure are but mostly they're lobbyists.
MURGUIA: And as an American voice I contribute to that. I want to make sure you understand that there is a broad core that supports ...
DOBBS: I will do my best
MURGUIA: ... comprehensive immigration reform.
DOBBS: I'll do my best to comprehend comprehensive.
MURGUIA: OK.
DOBBS: You want to try amnesty?
MURGUIA: No more amnesty. You've got to make sure it doesn't define everything.
DOBBS: I'm trying to compromise with you. You won't meet me halfway.
MURGUIA: You are trying to define the debate and it's not fair.
DOBBS: Poor little me defining a debate. That's very flattering?
MURGUIA: In a way that's skewed.
DOBBS: I would suggest to you that the skewing is done by corporate American, socio-ethnic-centric special-interest groups and an amazing perversion of what was May 1st today. You know what May 1st is in the United States?
MURGUIA: May Day? Yes.
DOBBS: Law Day.
MURGUIA: Yes.
DOBBS: This is the day we celebrate the rule of law and the enforcement of law as the foundation and the cornerstone of our great democracy. Thanks for being here.
MURGUIA: We celebrate this democracy. We're nation of laws and a nation of immigrants. We can do both.
DOBBS: I couldn't agree with you more. I think we've got it.
MURGUIA: OK.
DOBBS: Tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, I'll be in Hazelton, Pennsylvania. I'll be hosting a special live town hall meeting, "Broken Borders" from the campus of Penn State University in Hazelton. And Hazelton, of course, is the epicenter of local activism and community outrage about illegal immigration, that community passing ordinances and barring local landlords and businesses from hiring or sheltering illegal aliens and we'll be meeting the community as well the advocates on both sides of the issue. And coming up at the top of the hour here on CNN, THE SITUATION ROOM WITH WOLF BLITZER. Wolf?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Good, Lou, thanks very much.
President Bush vetoing the Democrats war funding bill and the controversial timetable for withdrawal from Iraq. When will the money, though, for U.S. troops actually run out?
Also, Democratic senator and former presidential candidate John Kerry, find out why he says Iraq doesn't have to end like Vietnam.
Plus details of a dramatic move by Venezuela's president that could hit you right in the wallet. And Lou Dobbs himself will be back here in the SITUATION ROOM.
He'll go head to head with California's attorney general Jerry Brown on what path America should take when it comes to immigration, all that coming up right here in THE SITUATION ROOM. Lou?
DOBBS: Wolf, thank you very much. Janet Murguia and I still arguing. We'll be joined by three of the country's top radio talk show hosts and they'll tell us what their listeners are saying about the demonstrations around the country today and I suspect they will tell us what they're thinking.
Stay with us. Coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: I'm joined by three of the country's best radio talk show hosts. Joining us from Phoenix, Charles Goyette and from Denver, Peter Boyles and here in New York, Mark Simone. It is good to have you all here.
Let me go out to you, Peter. You were just at radio row, at the Hold Their Feet to the Fire Rally. Did the rallies today measure up?
PETER BOYLES, KHOW IN DENVER: Well, I don't know. What I witnessed in Denver, 2500, perhaps 3,000 tops. Last year, the estimates were 75, 85,000 people, Lou. Radio row, Holding Their Feet to the Fire last week in Washington, DC, the number of people on the job with us radio talk show hosts across the country gathered, a lot of Republican congresspeople and a lot of activists showed up and a lot of people at home where the stations broadcast the shows, I think got a really truthful earful of exactly what the view is from Washington, DC. Pretty powerful couple of days. I think today in general was a flop.
DOBBS: A flop? How about you, Charles.
CHARLES GOYETTE, KFNX IN PHOENIX: Lou, I can tell you here in Phoenix, 90,000, at least 90,000 demonstrators were missing from today's turnout as compared to this time last year. I don't even understand why the whole debate is going on in Washington.
When I talked to the Minutemen guys, down at the border today. They're coming across the border still to this day by the thousands. So what are we going to have? We're going have some kind of Washington based immigration debate at the end of the month. Immigration reform this year that we are going to have to go back and revisit and redo entirely because nobody has stopped the underlying dynamic of this problem.
DOBBS: That is border security. Mark Simone. We want to apologize to everybody and you, Charles, your audio is a bit muddy, I guess would be one expression.
MARK SIMONE, WABC RADIO: Sounds like he's under water.
DOBBS: Not so technical but I apologize and we're getting that fixed, and to our audience.
SIMONE: My audience has one basic question. What is the debate here? I don't understand this. People are illegally entering this country, we're debating whether we want to have that or not? It makes no sense at all.
We're debating whether we want a secure border or not?
DOBBS: We're not.
SIMONE: How is this debate taking place in this country?
DOBBS: It's bipartisan debate. You have a president who is completely - I mean, talking today, about Iraq and he vetoed the war funding bill. That issue is going to be obviously front and center stage in the nation's capital.
But the fact is to talk about security against the war on terror and al Qaeda, and then almost six years after ...
SIMONE: Lou, let's be honest. This is not just the president. This is not the-the perfect storm of conspiracy, Republicans see it as cheap labor, Democrats see it as cheap votes, neither of them are going to do anything.
DOBBS: Nobody gives a damn about the American people.
BOYLES: As you guys know, they're building walls in Baghdad right now and they've interviewed young fine officers and the men and women doing it. They said, why are you building walls? They said, because they work. This is this same administration. It's ridiculous, as you have said. Some wise guy said, now, the Republican Party finally has its Jimmy Carter
DOBBS: That is not reassuring.
SIMONE: We need to put this on the ballot and let the people vote on it.
DOBBS: I couldn't agree with you more. The problem is there is no provision for a national referendum. I would like to see one. Maybe we can all get together and start working on that. Charles Goyette, I'm told that your audio is fixed. Welcome back to the discussion.
GOYETTE: Thank you, Lou. Good to be here.
DOBBS: The idea that there -- you just heard Janet Murguia of La Raza, talking about a consensus, a bipartisan consensus, there isn't a bipartisan can census on Capitol Hill on any other issue except basically telling the American people to go to hell, they're going to impose amnesty legislation if they have their way. What should the American people be doing? Because ...
GOYETTE: Lou -- I watched the news coverage today on virtually every network, every source, every forum, any place I could turn and every news story is accompanied with the word, demand. Look, I'm perfectly willing to have guests come into my house and to serve them. When they come into my home as my guest and begin demanding things, I have to draw the line. This is the wrong approach on this issue.
DOBBS: Peter, the idea this agenda is expanding, I mean, our reporting across the nation today, I mean, this thing moved from amnesty which seems to be a relatively sufficient and egregious demand, moved to unconditional amnesty, then it moved to stop the raids on illegal employers of illegal employers of illegal aliens, then move stop deportations, then it moves farther. This thing is -- to guest worker programs, ad infinitum.
BOYLES: But look at it historically, Lou. The left is never satisfied on any and all issues. You get that, you get the next thing.
DOBBS: Well, to be honest with you, I have got just as much trouble with the right as the left.
BOYLES: I do too. But it's the left in the street, not the right in the street today. It's the left in the street. And Reed- Flake-Gutierrez, this proposition, the House resolution that I believe the chairman of La Raza was talking about, that is a dead flat give away not only to amnesty but also to rights of American citizens. You guys, this is a tragedy.
SIMONE: We have also got to get the word "immigration" out of this. This has nothing to do with immigration. These are illegal aliens. That word undocumented. A drug dealer is not an unlicensed pharmacist. He's a criminal. There's a difference.
DOBBS: And not undocumented pharmacist, as some would point out. Let me go to you, Charles. You get the final word here tonight.
GOYETTE: Lou, as I pointed out earlier, I talked to the Minutemen down at the border on my show this morning here in Phoenix. They continue to come across the border illegally and virtually unchecked by the thousands. There is no point in even attempting to solve this problem legislatively until we stop the border flow.
DOBBS: Charles, thank you very much. Peter, thank you very much, Peter Boyles from Denver, Charles Goyette from Phoenix and Mark Simone from New York City. Good to have you all with us.
Coming up next, the results of our poll. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight, 96 percent of you saying the Bush administration and the Democratically led Congress should first secure our ports and borders before even discussing comprehensive immigration reform, so-called.
We thank you for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow at 6:00 p.m., and also 8:00 tomorrow or special town hall meeting. Special report on illegal immigration live from Hazelton, Pennsylvania. From all of us, thanks for watching. Good night from New York. THE SITUATION ROOM begins now with Wolf Blitzer.
Wolf?
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