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Nancy Grace
One Killed by Las Vegas Parking Lot Bomb
Aired May 07, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Celine Dion, Elton John, Cher, Wayne Newton, they all call Vegas home. Tonight, live to Vegas, where a bomb detonates at a luxury hotel. Police now investigate it. Was it a targeted murder plot?
And tonight: "Baywatch" superstar David Hasselhoff shows up drunk, eating off the floor in home video. Tonight, reports he is now banned from seeing his children as a result of the video. Legal battle ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID HASSELHOFF: This is a mess.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A very ugly mess, indeed. David Hasselhoff, who became the biggest TV star on the planet by going shirtless on "Baywatch," is again being seen shirtless on TV, this time in a less glamorous light...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you like doing this to yourself?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... sitting in his Las Vegas residence, slurring his words...
HASSELHOFF: I`ll be fine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sloppily mauling a hamburger, Hasselhoff appears drunk out of his mind, while off camera, a voice reported to belong to his 16-year-old daughter, Taylor (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell me you`re going to stop drinking. Tell me right now or I`m not going to talk to you ever again and I will totally disown you because it`s not fair to me or your family, what you`re doing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... a disturbing sight that made him a subject of jokes, "Hoff off the wagon" read this headline news banner. It`s also raising serious concerns that his very bitter and very public divorce from his wife of 16 years, Pamela Fox (ph), is taking its toll and reigniting his long fight against alcoholism. The tape was purportedly was shot by his 16-year-old daughter, Taylor Ann (ph). Along with 14-year-old Hayley (ph), the two teens are stuck in the middle of their parents` increasingly ugly fight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it appears that tape -- Hasselhoff calls it is an experiment -- has cost him. The judge has suspended Hasselhoff`s right to visit his children. He is only allowed to have phone contact with his kids until a hearing later this month to decide if his long-term visitation rights get cut off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That was exclusive video from "Extra" of Hasselhoff. Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Tonight, breaking news. A deadly explosion on the Vegas strip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say around 4:00 o`clock this morning, two employees leaving work when one of them noticed a suspicious object on top of a car on the second level of the garage. When he went to move that object, it exploded, ultimately killing him. The other employee was not injured. Now, police think that those two employees and no one else were the target of this attack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This appears to have been a small device that was constructed in such a way as to indicate that it was intended to target a single individual victim and was effective in doing that, unfortunately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas? Not anymore. Now the country wondering if it`s safe to travel to the Vegas strip. Celine Dion, Elton John, Cher, Wayne Newton, they all perform in Vegas to thousands and thousands of people every single night. Throngs go there to play and to gamble. But now a bomb detonated at a luxury hotel could change all of that.
Joining us tonight from Vegas, KDWN radio`s Brian Hudson. Brian, what happened?
BRIAN HUDSON, KDWN RADIO: Nancy, just after 4:00 o`clock this morning, a scary sight at the top of this two-story parking structure. Two workers coming out of the Luxor hotel resort and casino -- that`s the one that many may identify as the pyramid-shaped resort here in Las Vegas. They don`t actually work for the hotel resort itself, but they work for one of the businesses inside. They leave work this morning, head out to the parking structure. As one of the men approaches his car, notices that there`s something odd on it, reaches for it, and when he does, it explodes.
GRACE: When you say something odd on his car, what did it look like?
HUDSON: Police have not said what it looks like. Now, what is interesting about this, Nancy, is that this device -- you heard in the opener talking about it being specifically targeted to one individual. They said it was outside, on the car. It wasn`t like he got in his vehicle, turned the ignition and then his car blew up.
In fact, the aerial footage -- they wouldn`t let reporters get close to this, but aerial footage from helicopters that you may have seen here on CNN or CNN Headline News showed that this vehicle was not even damaged in any way. There was no blown-out windows. There was no hood or roof that was blown out.
And not being an expert on how these things are built, what is interesting about this is I can almost predict a scenario where maybe it was a projectile sort of explosion that took out the one person. Now, what`s also going to be of interest here, there are two eyewitnesses, really. One, a person that we know for sure was walking with that particular employee who was headed toward the car. The other one, a thousand eyes. There were security cameras on the roof of this parking structure.
GRACE: You know, to you, Michael White, former commander of the NYPD bomb squad. Thank you for being with us, Michael. I don`t know if I`m buying into the targeting one person. Yes, I know the bomb, the IED, was on a car. But anyone could have touched that. I mean, I don`t know how many millions of people come to Vegas every year. You`re the expert. What type of explosive do you think it is, Michael?
MICHAEL WHITE, FORMER COMMANDER, NYPD BOMB SQUAD: Well, it`s been described in several manners. The first thing that came out was a description of it being a backpack, and that was later discounted. But from the official police reports, the indications are that, yes, it was a small device. Though, initially, to a casual observer, it appears there was no or little damage to the vehicle, if you look closely at the aerial photography available, you can see there was, in fact, a small dent in the driver`s side rear seat area. So you know, yes, it was a small, localized explosion.
GRACE: That`s pretty powerful. That`s pretty powerful. And it left a debris field around the car.
I want to go to Pat Brown, criminal profiler. To create a bomb -- this isn`t your typical knife fight at the bar on Saturday night.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, exactly. This is premeditated because if this was somebody who was just very angry, he could have come up with a gun and shot the person or brought a knife with him, a moment of rage. But someone who`s going to plant a bomb has to actually figure out how to do that. Now, they can go on the net and they can go, for example, download "The Anarchist`s Cookbook," which is still around after -- for decades now, on how to build your own bomb and how to deploy it. But it still has to be premeditated and planned. So yes, this is -- I think it was targeted, as well.
GRACE: And to Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist and author. Doesn`t it take a certain psyche to go to the trouble of creating a bomb?
ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes. I wonder if this is a career criminal of sorts. It almost sounds like...
GRACE: Hold on, Robi. Let me just save you a little effort. I`m guessing a loner, a white guy, holed up in his apartment, no girlfriend, no friends, cooking up a bomb. Agree, disagree?
LUDWIG: No, you know, I`m wondering if there`s some type of loan shark, if there`s money involved. I mean, this almost sounds like a career criminal to me. You know, it just -- it does sound planned. It does sound like somebody who knows what they`re doing. It does sound like the timing was very deliberate. So I`m not going to say it`s just some lonely guy who just had a lot of time on his hands. It sounds like it was deliberate and planned and there was some vendetta involved.
GRACE: Back to Brian Hudson with KDWN radio. Brian, you mentioned 1,000 eyes. You know, you`re right. At casinos, there are security cameras everywhere. How about in the parking lot?
HUDSON: A 24/7 town. And these parking structures -- big light poles with security cameras mounted in multiple directions. So what is likely going to be the case here -- and police say they do have the surveillance video and they are reviewing it -- is that you will have multiple angles, presumably, to show everything from the person who placed that device on the vehicle to the actual explosion itself.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, civil rights attorney, recently at the Luxor, Gloria Allred is joining us, Ray Giudice out of Atlanta, Jason Oshins out of the New York jurisdiction.
To you, Gloria. Whoever did this is, A, probably on video. But if they`re a local, they know they`re on a security camera.
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, if they`re thinking that far, if they realize that there are multiple cameras. And we don`t know how easily seen these cameras are. Here`s what we do know. What happened in Las Vegas, doesn`t stay in Las Vegas if it`s a bomb that kills someone. And this may be someone who thought he was planning the perfect crime, or she was, but obviously has not planned the perfect crime because there are witnesses.
GRACE: You know, you, first of all, said he or she. Come on, Ray. Let`s get real. It`s a he. Who else is going to hole up in their apartment and cook up a bomb?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Statistically, I agree with you, Nancy, and I think I would agree with Dr. Ludwig -- Robi. This is either a gambling debt enforcement, this is a technological way of doing a kneecapping, or it`s a domestic violence matter.
GRACE: A technological kneecapping. Jason Oshins, what`s your defense?
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you`ve got to work really hard in terms of, at the end of the day, finding, you know, some way to distinguish it, if it`s a crime of passion, as opposed to...
OSHINS: Passion? Wait a minute. Passion is when you`re angry over something and you act without thinking. This guy cooked up a bomb, for Pete`s sake!
OSHINS: Well, no doubt, but...
GRACE: It could have gotten a 12-year-old!
OSHINS: In most jurisdictions, some crime of passion, there will be an allowable defense for that, a lesser degree of, ultimately, punishment. And you know, right now, you`ve got to be in the fact-finding stage and see what happens first.
GRACE: Joining us right now, the deputy chief at the Las Vegas Metro Police Department, Ted Moody, is joining us. Sir, thank you for being with us.
TED MOODY, LAS VEGAS METRO PD DEPUTY CHIEF: You`re welcome. My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
GRACE: Is there any suggestion that this is, as we just heard, a technological kneecapping? Is this somehow connected to the casino business?
MOODY: No, there is no indication that it`s in any way connected to the casino business, other than it occurred on casino property. It involved an employee of a vendor that operates inside the Luxor, nothing to indicate that this -- if what you`re asking, is it an attack on the resort industry or somebody trying to make a statement in that fashion.
GRACE: With us, deputy chief of the Vegas Metro Police Department Ted Moody. Chief, another question. While we haven`t seen a lot of pictures of the device post-detonation, we`ve heard a lot about it. Why are you so sure that one person was targeted?
MOODY: Well, listen, I`m here with you representing a very large team of very serious professionals within the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, homicide and our own explosives experts and investigators, together with experts from ATF. The nature, the design of this device, the manner in which it was placed on this vehicle, the isolated location in which the vehicle was parked, the early morning hours, when there was very little traffic in that area, all of these things working together do not cause us to look at this and speculate that it was intended to target anyone other than the deceased victim in this case.
GRACE: What was the design of the bomb?
MOODY: Well, this is an ongoing investigation, and so I`m not going to get into a lot of specifics with you. I`m unable to, at this point in time, with regard to the characteristics of this individual device. We refer to this as an improvised explosive device. It`s basically a homemade bomb. There are some characteristics that are pretty common from one homemade device to another, but there are also some that are unique and that are the -- that involve the characteristics of the bomb maker. So we don`t want everybody out there to know what we know about this device just yet.
GRACE: Well, school us. With us is a very special guest, Ted Moody. He`s the deputy chief at Vegas Metro Police. Chief, you -- explain to us what you mean. I know that there are unique characteristics to this bomb, a bomb detonated there in Vegas at the Luxor resort and hotel. But you also state that there are general characteristics to all improvised explosive devices. Such as what? What would be a general characteristic they all share?
MOODY: Well, I didn`t say that there are general characteristics to all improvised explosive devices. What I said is that there are some characteristics that are common to many, I think. And that`s what I meant. And for example, a pipe bomb is a commonly constructed type of improvised explosive device. What`s common to a pipe bomb? A pipe, with end caps.
So there are features that are going to be common, but the additional characteristics that are devised and developed and used by the individual bomb maker can help us set these things apart, together with much closer analysis of other characteristics of the pipe. The material from which the pipe itself was constructed, accelerants that may have been used, the type of detonator, things of that nature might point us toward the maker and the source of the materials.
GRACE: With us, Deputy Chief Ted Moody of the Vegas Metro Police Department. Sir, the one person, the victim, who was it?
MOODY: The victim is an employee of a vendor that operates out of the inside of the Luxor. Now, I don`t want to go into a lot of specifics about this person right now because we want to make sure that we have fully notified the next of kin before we put enough information out there for people to start putting two and two together and coming up with that on their own. Right now, I can`t go into a lot of detail about it.
Of course, we have the same questions that you, Nancy, and everybody else has expressed. We want answers, too. And one of the things that we try to do immediately in an investigation like this is learn everything we can about the people involved, including the victim, because that will help point us toward a motive...
GRACE: Exactly.
MOODY: ... which helps point us toward a solution.
GRACE: And what I`m concerned about -- with us, Deputy Chief Ted Moody there in the Vegas police -- is that you`re sure, or you believed as of now, that this was targeted to one individual. I`m just thinking about a different picture, where tourists, although this wasn`t a tourist, or other people -- that there could be a succession of these type of bombs there in Vegas, where everybody wants to go. You want to Celine, Wayne Newton, Vince Vaughn? There you go to Vegas. But you`ve got a pipe bomb sitting out on your rental car.
And I`m just wondering -- I know you`re not going to tell me a lot of specifics, but for all I know, it looked like something the individual could safely pick up. How did he/she know there was a bomb there? He obviously didn`t. Anybody could have been fooled.
MOODY: Well, first of all, you know, this wasn`t a rental car. This car...
GRACE: Right.
MOODY: ... belonged to the individual, who was walking out to the car to get in it and drive away and observed an object that had been placed on the roof of the vehicle, went to remove it. When he picked it up, it exploded. And it`s very unfortunate. It`s very tragic. But right now, this is a murder investigation, Nancy, and really nothing more than that. You know, rather than a gun, rather than a knife, the weapon of choice here was a bomb, was an explosive device.
GRACE: Chief, I hope you`re right.
Out to the lines. Josh in Florida. Hi, Josh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was wondering if it`s possible this could be a mob-related hit?
GRACE: You know, excellent question. To you, Brian Hudson with KDWN. A lot of supposition about a mob hit. What are your thoughts on that?
HUDSON: Well, my general statement on that is that it probably gets back to the identity of this particular victim, knowing that this is a worker of a vendor inside. Remember, these casino resorts have everything from, you know, fast food restaurants to high-end clothiers inside. So the identity of this person is going to be key, going to be crucial.
In fact, police know that, and that is why, immediately after this crime, they came out, number one, and said they don`t believe it`s terrorist-related. And number two, they wouldn`t let us at our radio station, KDWN, speak with any of the employees who were on shift at that time, who might have been able to identify the victim or the person he was walking with.
GRACE: Sorry, Celine Dion. I`m canceling my trip until they solve this crime.
Out to Stacey in Nevada. Hi, Stacey.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I love your show, Nancy...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I work in the casino industry in Las Vegas, and we deal with disgruntled guests all the time. I think we get the worst disgruntled guests on the planet. If, in fact, the casino did not have cameras in the employee lots (ph), which a lot of the casinos don`t, believe it or not, would the families be able to file a lawsuit?
GRACE: Holy moley! You mean, the family of the victim, Stacey?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely. Yes.
GRACE: Excellent question. Let`s go out to you, Ray Giudice. What about it?
GIUDICE: I think there are some issues there. Every public facility or that has guests and vendors and residents there has a responsibility to provide adequate security. If the state of the art and adequate security in Vegas is cameras in the parking decks, they may have failed to reach that standard of care.
GRACE: What about it, Gloria Allred? Is that a standard they`ve got to meet?
ALLRED: Well, apparently, though, they did have multiple cameras in the lot. So you know, the question is, you know, was there prior criminal history in this particular lot, such that perhaps the casino might have been on notice that that would be an unsafe place and there should have been security present? And I think that`s one of the questions that has to be answered first.
GRACE: You know, what you just brought up, the fact that they -- it`s just outside a casino, tons of money flowing both ways, you would think they`d have a security camera out there. But according to Stacey, who works in a casino there, they don`t all have security cameras. This may not be as easy to solve as we think.
Very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert." It looks like the private lobby efforts are stronger than ever in D.C. On Capitol Hill today, just hours ago, our Senate blocks a bid for lower-priced prescriptions from Canada and other countries. This law would, of course, lower prices on prescription meds here in the U.S. Similar legislation still pending in the House.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say that there were two co-workers who were working inside the Luxor. They were leaving work together about 4:00 AM. They`re walking out to the structure. They were making their way up to the second floor. The man spotted his small car. He saw something on top of the roof. He attempted to remove it, and at that point, the device detonated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A bomb detonates at a luxury Vegas hotel right there on the Vegas strip, thousands of people around at the time. One dead.
Out to the lines. Cindy in Ohio. Hi, Cindy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`d like to know, after the bomb went off, what the hotel staff or security did immediately after that to secure the safety of all the guests and the staff working there?
GRACE: Good question. To you -- Michael White is with us with the NYPD bomb squad. What should they have done?
WHITE: Well, you say they followed standard procedure, which, of course, was to isolate the area and attempt (INAUDIBLE) But they also called in K-9 units to do a full sweep of the parking lot, in case there were other devices present. So they did take effective measures to search for other devices immediately.
GRACE: To Deputy Chief Ted Moody there in Vegas Police Department. Did they bring in the dogs? Did they bring in tracker dogs to secure the area?
MOODY: Absolutely. I think there was some live feed this afternoon that depicted a team of dogs going through the parking lot up there, together with our officers and representatives from ATF. And there were a lot of other things, trust me, that we did behind the scenes inside that resort and all around it to ensure that the people coming and going from that resort were safe.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Las Vegas police are now looking at security videotapes to answer a baffling question: Who left an explosive device inside a casino parking garage? That bomb exploded early this morning, killing a man who was trying to remove it from the top of his car. It certainly is a strange case, but could the victim have been targeted?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A bomb detonated at the luxury hotel, the Luxor there on the Vegas strip, one dead, police now believing this could be a targeted murder plot.
Back out to Brian Hudson with KDWN radio. Is the general population going along with that theory, or are they afraid another bomb will turn up tomorrow in a parking lot?
HUDSON: Well, here`s the big question for especially locals, and I would imagine for people who are arriving in Las Vegas or already staying here. If police know who committed this crime and why, they`re not saying as much. That is a big concern for anybody wondering, Could I be adjacent to maybe a targeted IED like the one that went off at the Luxor parking garage 13 hours ago?
GRACE: And very quickly, Chief Moody, how do you take the bits and pieces of a bomb and come up with evidence?
MOODY: Well, you`d be amazed at what these investigators are capable of doing. If you`ve been watching some of the live feed that`s been available all day long, you`ve seen them out there. It`s a very painstaking process.
GRACE: OK.
MOODY: It doesn`t happen very fast. They go through this very methodically. They collect everything that they can find, mark its location, photograph it. And these people are smart. They`re able to put it back together.
GRACE: When we come back, "Baywatch" superstar David Hasselhoff caught on home video drunk, eating off the floor. Will it cost him custody?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Many of Hasselhoff`s troubles have stemmed from alcohol. He spent time at the Betty Ford Clinic in 2001 and was arrested for DUI in 2004. It was around that time he says he quit drinking. But when (INAUDIBLE) started becoming tabloid fodder in 2006, reports of his drinking again soon followed. And so did (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are there allegations of abuse, in terms of alcoholism and the daughter seeing it? Yes, there are. Are there concerns for the safety of the children? Yes, there are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Baywatch superstar David Hasselhoff shows up in a home video drunk on the floor, eating off the floor, got a plate in the floor. Let`s take a look at that extra footage, Liz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID HASSELHOFF, ACTOR: A mess.
TAYLOR-ANN HASSELHOFF, DAUGHTER: Tell me you`re going to stop.
HASSELHOFF: I`m going to stop.
TAYLOR-ANN HASSELHOFF: Promise?
HASSELHOFF: Yep.
TAYLOR-ANN HASSELHOFF: Yes?
HASSELHOFF: This is a mess.
TAYLOR-ANN HASSELHOFF: Why do you like doing this to yourself?
HASSELHOFF: Because I`m lonely (INAUDIBLE)
TAYLOR-ANN HASSELHOFF: Tell me you`re going to stop drinking. Tell me right now, or I`m not going to talk to you ever again. And I`ll totally disown you, because it`s not fair to me or your family, what you`re doing.
HASSELHOFF: I`ll be fine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The voice you`re hearing, in addition to Hasselhoff, is his then-16-year-old little girl taking this video and questioning him about why he won`t quit drinking. That is video exclusive to "Extra." They shared that with us tonight.
I want to go straight out to Ken Baker with UsMagazine.com. Ken, before I get into the specifics of what this means and what it means to his legal custody battle, who the heck leaked it?
KEN BAKER, USMAGAZINE.COM: That`s a really good question, and the judge today said that that`s something he wants to get to the bottom of. David Hasselhoff has suggested that it`s his belief that his ex-wife leaked the tape, in order to gain some leverage in their divorce and custody negotiations, and I will tell you that, out here, people tend to think that they believe him.
But I think that her attorney says otherwise. But I think David was very clear, in the statement that he put out last week, that he said, "Look, I`m in recovery. We`re going through a nasty battle here." But he also, in that statement, pointed the finger at his wife for leaking that tape.
GRACE: You referred to the wife`s attorney. Who`s the lawyer?
BAKER: You`re talking about Debra Opri. You may be familiar with her.
GRACE: Yes. When did Deb Opri come on the case?
BAKER: I`m not sure how long she`s been on, but she`s been on for quite some time. And I think that this is a case that`s right up her alley. And she`s certainly getting attention. Look, we`re sitting here talking about the tape, and it`s been almost a week since it`s come out.
And I think that what`s clear is that, you know, the wife has gained a competitive advantage here. She does have leverage now, because what the judge today in Los Angeles was basically press the pause button on David Hasselhoff`s right to have visitation with his two kids. Basically, what the judge said was, "You cannot see your children. You can talk to them on the phone, but you cannot see them," at least until May 21st when they`re going to have a hearing about this.
GRACE: OK. Let`s take a look at the video that has somehow exploded onto the scene. Who leaked it is a big question, but what it means to his custody rights is the bigger question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HASSELHOFF: It`s a mess.
TAYLOR-ANN HASSELHOFF: Why do you like doing this to yourself?
HASSELHOFF: Because I`m lonely (INAUDIBLE)
TAYLOR-ANN HASSELHOFF: Tell me you`re going to stop drinking. Tell me right now, or I`m not going to talk to you ever again, and I will totally disown you because it`s not fair to me or your family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Gloria Allred. You know, if everybody with a drinking problem in this country lost custody, there would be kids wandering the street right now. Now, do we know anything, Gloria, about him mistreating the children, beating the children, abusing them when he is drunk?
GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY: No, we don`t. And I might add, Nancy, that it`s very disturbing to me, who cares a lot about children, as I know you do, to have this kind of tape become public. Also, I mean, in the same way Alec Baldwin`s tape became public. These kinds of matters should be handled in family law court, and I think it`s very disturbing to have it out there, because I think it has an impact on the children.
Now, here you have the child, though, in the presence of her father, who appears to be under the influence. The child is really being a parent to her father. But if a person who was a parent is under the influence and is continually under the influence, it`s possible that he could present a risk of harm to his children.
We don`t know what he might say or do if he`s under the influence. She`s still only 16 years old. That`s something that would be of interest to the court.
The court would have been interested in this even if it weren`t on television all over the airwaves. And I think any court would have suspended visitation until there can be a fuller hearing, and that will be in a couple of weeks. And then the court will decide what is best from that point on.
GRACE: I don`t know, Gloria. I just -- you know how I hate people that drink and drive. But to take your custody away, your visitation rights to see your children, because you`re an alcoholic? I`ve got to see more. I`ve got to find out that he mistreated them, that somehow there is an action beyond this. Yes, I know there`s emotional damage to this little girl. She`s 16, taking this video. I get it. But taking away his custody just like that?
ALLRED: Well, it`s just visitation, just for two weeks, until there`s a full hearing.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I happen to personally know your daughter and grandchildren. If somebody told you, you couldn`t see them until some hearing, you`d bust a gasket. You`d take down the courthouse.
ALLRED: Well, you know, it wouldn`t be about the parent. It`s about protecting the child, making sure that there`s no harm to the child, either physical harm or emotional harm. And that is the reason that the parties in the next couple weeks, before the May 21st hearing, are going to be required to speak with a psychologist. The psychologist will be able to interview them and hopefully evaluate whether -- and what kind of harm, if any, there has been to the children and make some recommendations to the court.
GRACE: You know what? You`re right. For all I know, there`s a lot more to it than this. But to take away custody based on a guy getting drunk and eating off a plate on the floor, good god, half the men in America would be in the can right now.
Out to the lines. Mindy in Maryland, hi, Mindy.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy, enjoy you and your show.
GRACE: Thank you, dear.
CALLER: You`ve kind of been discussing this, but how could a judge legally take the kids away when what he`s doing is irresponsible, but not technically illegal?
GRACE: Out to the lawyers, Ray Giudice, Jason Oshins, and Gloria Allred. How does it happen, Jason, just like that? This video leaks, and the judge said he didn`t watch the video. He read about this.
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, he`s taking judicial notice. He should. And when those children`s best interests are in danger, that judge has got to take time to evaluate what more is going on behind this. If he has joint custody and the children are with him, is he drunk? Is he being responsible? Any judge...
GRACE: Clearly not being responsible. But, yes, of course he`s drunk.
OSHINS: Well, he`s obviously not responsible. And the judge is being responsible by taking a time-out and taking a look-see what else is going on right here.
GRACE: And to you, David Caplan, joining us, deputy bureau chief in New York of "Star," wasn`t there that unusual occurrence just recently where he was shaving, and there was an accident with a lamp, and he got all cut up?
DAVID CAPLAN, "STAR" MAGAZINE: Yes. There was a recent incident -- I think you`re referring to -- is that there was an incident where actually - - and his daughter was cut, and then there was this alleged sort of -- reports were saying that one of his daughters tried to commit suicide, and then there was this whole -- you know, it was obviously proved to be false. But it was -- did stem from him being a little bit under the influence in the house. So everyone...
GRACE: He got in a fight with a lamp.
CAPLAN: That`s what happens when people are drunk, unfortunately.
GRACE: Well, you know, actually, to you, Ray Giudice, that incident, where Hasselhoff got totally injured when he allegedly was intoxicated could be an indication there`s more to this than just this video.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, there`s a reason why this young girl videotaped this. This didn`t just come on a whim. She is clearly concerned about her dad and his mental and emotional health and his sobriety. And she`s taking steps. She should be commended.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is an astounding public intervention precipitated by, shockingly, David Hasselhoff himself. It`s a situation where he`s a guy holding up a mirror to himself and saying, "Look, I don`t want this to happen anymore, so take this videotape of me and remind me of what I`m like when I have a relapse."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: David Hasselhoff, superstar from "Baywatch," on the hot seat. That video was taken by his then-16-year-old little girl, who tries to counsel him through an episode of him eating off the floor.
I want to go back out to Ken Baker with UsMagazine.com. A lot of people are arguing this is all about money. I took a look at some requests the wife made to the court, and it included $28,000 a month for the kids` school and $5,000 a month for hair and nails. Hello, lady, you could buy a car for that, $5,000 a month for hair and nails?
BAKER: Well, welcome to Hollywood. Welcome to Hollywood divorces. But it`s really been a nasty divorce battle. Here`s just some of the other things. You mentioned that. She has claimed that David, at one time, struck her and broke her nose. He countered that the only time she broke her nose was when she had a nose job.
Likewise, he`s countered back and made accusations of drug use and different improprieties on her part, so the fact that now this is coming out and was leaked out to the media isn`t really a surprise to people in the Hollywood community who`s sort of been watching this battle play out for several months now, and it`s gotten really ugly. Obviously, this is the low point in that mudslinging.
GRACE: Well, isn`t it true, to you, David Caplan, that this whole thing, this whole issue started when he claimed she had been drunk around the children, and he put that in some court documents, and now she said, "Oh, no, no, no," and this video has suddenly been leaked?
CAPLAN: Absolutely. It really was a tale of he said-she said. Everyone has known for years that David is the one who`s been battling alcoholism. Then he turned around and said, no, it was actually she who was abusive and she who was the one who was very physical. And, you know, a lot of his claims are actually met with a little bit of skepticism, just because everyone around him knew that he was one of the problems. And this battle is definitely...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Well, they can claim whatever they want, David Caplan, but this videotape isn`t lying. And somehow I don`t believe the 16-year-old little girl is part of some kind of crazy plot.
Out to Melissa in Indiana. Hi, Melissa.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CALLER: Would this be considered child endangerment? Because I know it is in Indiana.
GRACE: Good question. Let`s go out to Ken Seeley. He is with A&E`s "Intervention" and founder of Intervention911.com. Ken, it`s a real pleasure to have you on the show.
KEN SEELEY, A&E`S "INTERVENTION": Thank you.
GRACE: Is this, in itself, a violation of the law? And what`s your impression of the video?
SEELEY: Yes, Nancy, it`s a really sad situation, because, you know, here he is, suffering from a disease of addiction. You know, he`s suffering from the disease, and he`s getting all the consequences that go along with that. You know, it`s sad that the judge did do this, but there has to be some kind of bottom that needs to be raised, where he takes the appropriate action and gets the right help. He hasn`t done that.
You know, two years ago, you know, we hear that, you know, he`s -- or last year, I think it was, where he wasn`t allowed on a plane, all the other things that you`re talking about on your show here, about how his behavior continues and continues, and nobody`s doing anything. You know, if it is true, and that video clip where his daughter says, you know, if you don`t -- if they show up tomorrow, and the doctor tests that your blood level is a certain level, your alcohol level is a certain level, then you can`t go to work.
If that`s true, why didn`t they do a professional intervention? Why didn`t they do the appropriate thing that they should have done, instead of worrying about, you know, "You`re going to get fired"? Let`s take the appropriate action. It`s a medical condition that needs medical attention.
And, yes, the only way people do stop, and feel that bottom, and the pain of the bottom is when it`s raised. So maybe this is what`s going to be the thing that jolts him, that says, "Ow, that hurts, and I`m going to take the appropriate action and get the appropriate medical attention that`s necessary, so I don`t damage my children."
GRACE: That`s a really good question about damaging the children. To you, Jason Oshins, back to Melissa in Indiana`s question, does this in itself present a violation of the law?
OSHINS: Well, I`m not certain about California code, but obviously jurisdictionally it could. And, hey, what if he`s driving? What if under his care at home he`s drunk...
GRACE: Yes, well, what if he`s flying a NASA rocket over Vegas right now? But he`s not. He`s sitting on the floor. So we don`t have a drunk driver.
OSHINS: But that`s what`s important to know, from the judge`s perspective, is what else is going on when these children are in his custodial care?
GRACE: OK. Gloria Allred, is it a violation in itself, what we`ve seen so far?
ALLRED: You know, I don`t know whether it`s a violation in and of itself, but I think it`s a cause for concern for the court. It`s interesting to me, too, Nancy, how strange -- he has a book, apparently, coming out next week, in which he talks about his addiction. So I don`t know how much he`s going to complain about being seen publicly under the influence when he`s going to be trying to sell books, talking about his addiction to alcohol. But it is that very...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... coincidental, Gloria Allred. You`re the first person I`ve heard bring that up. Take a look at the video we`re talking about. This is from "Extra."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAYLOR-ANN HASSELHOFF: Tell me you`re going to stop.
HASSELHOFF: I`m going to stop.
TAYLOR-ANN HASSELHOFF: Promise?
HASSELHOFF: Yep.
TAYLOR-ANN HASSELHOFF: Yes?
HASSELHOFF: This is a mess.
TAYLOR-ANN HASSELHOFF: Why do you like doing this to yourself?
HASSELHOFF: Because I`m lonely (INAUDIBLE)
TAYLOR-ANN HASSELHOFF: Tell me you`re going to stop drinking. Tell me right now, or I`m not going to talk to you ever again. And I`ll totally disown you, because it`s not fair to me or your family, what you`re doing.
HASSELHOFF: I`ll be fine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Poor little thing. That`s a 16-year-old daughter trying to reason with her father, David Hasselhoff.
To Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist and author, Robi, how do -- I`m not sure that this in itself presents a violation of the law. But how do alcoholic parents affect their children?
DR. ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, it`s very hard for these children to trust. Very often they take responsibility, become parentified. They feel it`s their job to somehow stop their parent from drinking, and they really need help, like Alateen, to help them get through the process.
And I also think the daughter, in taking this video, she`s saying, "I`m not going to enable you. I`m not, as a family, going to present a pretty picture so that this will go away. I`m going to show you what you look like to the outside world, so we don`t have to take it anymore."
So I think, in some ways, it was a healthy measure of her saying, "Look at yourself. It`s not pretty. And I`m not going to pretend anymore."
GRACE: How is this going to affect these two girls growing up?
LUDWIG: Well, you know, they can become depressed. Sometimes they seek men that are like their fathers. They can become co-dependent, which means you have a dependency on people who have an abnormal problem. So it can be dangerous.
GRACE: With us, Dr. Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist and author.
Very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert." Shoplifters on display at a Wal-Mart store in Alabama. Alabama Judge Kenneth Robertson, Jr., orders two sticky-fingered thieves to wear signs reading, "I am a thief. I stole from Wal-Mart." The pair forced to stand outside the store eight hours to avoid a 60-day jail sentence.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAMELA BACH, EX-WIFE OF DAVID HASSELHOFF: The disease of alcoholism that David is -- it`s a disease that you could put (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re saying he is an alcoholic?
BACH: I know he is.
(CROSSTALK)
BACH: And I Thought, if he just wouldn`t drink, everything is going to be OK. Life is good. We`ve got two beautiful girls. They`re amazing. If he`d just put down the drink, everything will be OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is from "Access Hollywood," and that is a sound clip from a statement given by Hasselhoff`s wife. As you know by now, a home video released in which Hasselhoff pops up drunk, eating off the floor, videotaped by his then-16-year-old daughter, will it affect his custody? Out to Francis in California, hi, Francis.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CALLER: My question is, these girls look like they`re in their mid- to late-teen years. Shouldn`t they have a say in whether or not their father is fit to see them or whether they want to see their father?
GRACE: You know what? That is an excellent question. Out to you, Gloria Allred, at what point do young teens get to decide where they go and whose custody they are in?
ALLRED: Great question. By the way, Pamela is not his wife. They are divorced.
GRACE: Oh, yes, you`re right. Thank you.
ALLRED: She is the ex-wife. But in California, the older the child, the more weight is given to the preference of the child for custody. So, in other words, very little weight would be given to the preference of a 5- year-old versus a 16-year-old, her opinion, her feelings about which custody she`d like to be in, the parents, the father or the mother, would be given much more weight. So I think it will be a factor, although not a conclusive factor.
GRACE: Let`s stop to remember Army Corporal Wade Oglesby, 27, Colorado, killed, Iraq. Put high school on hold to care for his mother, Linda, and their family. Wade Oglesby, American hero.
Thank you to my guests, but especially to you for being with us. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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