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GLENN BECK

Jerry Falwell Dies at 73; GOP Candidates Running from Immigration Reform Bill; Teacher Puts Class Through College; British Girl Missing from Portugal Hotel

Aired May 15, 2007 - 19:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


GLENN BECK, HOST: Breaking news tonight. One of the nation`s most powerful political and religious leaders is dead. Reverend Jerry Falwell died today at 73.
We have a ton of things to cover tonight, but I want to start with Falwell`s impact on power and the powerful, next.

There is sad news tonight for many. The Reverend Jerry Falwell died this afternoon. He was 73. He collapsed in his office, and he was rushed to the hospital in gravely serious condition. No official cause of death has been announced, but the reverend had been suffering from serious heart problems for the last couple of years.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. CARL MOORE, FALWELL`S PERSONAL PHYSICIAN: He was found without pulse, never regained a pulse. And it`s a little too early to speculate this. I would assume that he passed away from a cardiac rhythmic abnormality, which can be a manifestation of any heart disease.

It`s so devastating to me personally, because even though we had a physician-patient relationship, he was a friend of mine, as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: Reverend Falwell came to age as a televangelist in the 1980s. He was a founder of the Moral Majority. For many, he was the face of the religious right in this country, wielding the kind of influence that helped put Ronald Reagan into the White House. That`s the "just the facts" part of this segment. That`s what we know.

As for me, I didn`t know Reverend Jerry Falwell personally. He had been a guest on this show. Several times, in fact, just recently. He was unquestionably smart; he was surprisingly funny. He took his beliefs seriously. And while I didn`t agree with him all the time, I never really questioned the depth of his passion or his dedication to his convictions.

Love him or hate him, you can`t deny that Jerry Falwell stood for something, and isn`t that the lesson, maybe, for all of us?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BECK (voice-over): Born in Lynchburg, Virginia, Jerry Falwell took his 35-member Thomas Road Baptist Church and over the years transformed it from a small flock to a congregation of millions.

Raised on radio preachers, Falwell helped usher in a new form of evangelism, taking it to the airwaves, first on the radio, then on TV, broadcasting his "Old-Time Gospel Hour" program into homes all across America.

He created a college, now known as Liberty University. And in 1979, formed the Moral Majority, which was instrumental in helping elect Ronald Reagan and other conservatives into public office.

REV. JERRY FALWELL, FOUNDER, LIBERTY UNIVERSITY: We have a goal of 200 of our people running for office this year at different levels across the country.

BECK: He was a hero to the new Christian right.

GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Jerry, I`m glad to have been introduced by a loyal friend.

BECK: And to liberals, he was the enemy.

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In a very Christian way, as far as I`m concerned, he can go to hell!

BECK: Through the decades, Falwell`s targets ranged from terrorists to Teletubbies. And to the very end, he remained in the spotlight, always controversial, never without an opinion.

Whatever you might think of Jerry Falwell, all can agree he forever changed the landscape of American politics and religion.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BECK: I`m joined now by William Donohue, the president of the Catholic League, and David Kuo. He`s the Washington editor for BeliefNet.com.

Doesn`t this say it all about Jerry Falwell? People either loved him or hated him. Bill?

BILL DONOHUE, PRESIDENT, CATHOLIC LEAGUE: Absolutely. And I`d also add that he`s a man of great moral courage, and I`m glad that you mentioned, a great sense of humor. Every time I was with him, the guy never took himself too seriously. Yes, he took his religion seriously.

But there`s a stereotype about Jerry Falwell that he some close-minded individual, some kind of a nerd of some sort. No, this man was full of life. And what he did, he`ll go down in history as the one person who did more to mobilize evangelicals politically than any other person and to bring together the Moral Majority.

By the way, about a third of his members were Roman Catholic. So he did reach out to Catholics and to orthodox Jews, and for that he should be commended.

BECK: Bill, let me -- let me go over something here that I read. And this is his -- this is his -- on the wire today. This is what they printed as soon as he was -- as soon as he died. This was his obituary.

And what I highlighted is the negative about Jerry Falwell as this writer wrote it. But this stuck out to me: "Writing in the `Catholic New Times` in 2004, retired Catholic Bishop John Shelby, who led a Lynchburg area church since the 1960s recalled Falwell as a race-baiting segregationist who praised South Africa`s Apartheid regime as a bulwark for Christian civilization and branded black rights activist Nelson Mandela as a communist."

This is a fellow Catholic that wrote this about Jerry Falwell.

DONOHUE: Yes, Catholics are often wrong. Quite frankly, Jerry Falwell -- look, I don`t know whether he said these things or not, but you know, there was some people on the far left associated with Mandela at one point. Maybe that`s what Jerry was referring to.

BECK: Yes.

DONOHUE: But you know what? Look, overall in the scheme of things, he left his mark on American society in a mostly positive manner.

BECK: David, do you think he`s going to be remembered in a positive way? And I don`t mean now. I mean, maybe 15 years, 20 years down the road? Do you think he`s going to be remembered as a positive force to American politics or a negative?

DAVID KUO, BELIEFNET.COM: That`s the question really. It`s the divide between Jerry Falwell, the political figure, and Jerry Falwell, the spiritual leader.

I think if you look at Jerry Falwell, the political figure, you see both great success and great failure. You see the religious right today. I mean, the Christian conservative movement today is the single most powerful political force in America.

Jerry Falwell is its grandfather, and it reflects Jerry Falwell in so many ways. In its passion, in the issues that it cares about, even in its controversial tones sometimes.

But you know, at the same time, he helped welcome Christians to the political table. In 1970s, 1980s, early 1990s, Christians weren`t welcome to the political table. They were mocked and ridiculed. Jerry Falwell said, "Let`s bring them in."

But at the same time, you look at the political failures. From his perspective, Roe vs. Wade is still on the books. That has to be a big failure.

But you know, it`s interesting. I looked. From 1979 till today, the Moral Majority was founded to today, you have enormous increases in out of wedlock births. You have enormous increases in divorce. You have the lowest family formation in American history and civilized history.

And at the end of the day, I think Jerry Falwell had to realize that politics only reaches so far, that the work of the soul is more important and that, then, leads to his spiritual legacy.

BECK: You know, I have to tell you. One thing that I`ve been thinking about today with his passing is that politics never fixes anything, and many times politics makes things worse. It`s the family that`s going to fix it.

And when you cross them, it`s a very foreign idea to Americans to cross religion and politics, at least in today`s world. And that`s exactly what Jerry Falwell did, and that`s, I guess, why so many people had a problem with him.

KUO: Yes -- no, I know several people who have called me today who they said they`re sorry about his loss. But you know what? Jerry Falwell is one of the reasons I`m afraid to call myself a Christian in public, because I do not want to be perceived as a Jerry Falwell Christian.

On the one hand, he was a gifted pastor. You know, he healed lives in his church. He cared for people in his church far beyond anything the media ever portrayed.

But at the same time there is this extremely complicated spiritual part of him that really presented a Jesus that bears little resemblance to the Jesus of the Bible. The Jesus of the Bible didn`t -- you know, talked about life and talked about resurrection, and he talked about the poor. And those were things that Jerry Falwell didn`t talk about so much.

BECK: Bill, he was known -- a lot of people remember him right after 9/11. He said that abortionists and homosexuals and everybody else was responsible for 9/11. He later apologized for that.

He also said, and I`m trying to get which one was -- which one. It was Tinky Winky was gay. He was -- he was the character on "Teletubbies".

He has said some really nasty things that people have -- will always remember him for.

DONOHUE: Right. And anybody who`s been in public life decade after decade, as Jerry Falwell has, will have said things that he can later regret and apologize for. That`s not the big news.

Here`s the big news. Not only did he found the Moral Majority and Liberty University, but more importantly, there was an organization founded to combat him. Namely People for the American Way. That organization, with Norman Lear`s money, was terrified of the fact that Jerry Falwell could mobilize so many evangelicals. And it was principally Falwell, not Brent Robertson and the others, who were involved in this thing.

So when you have an organization with that kind of money laying down to go against you. Look, Jerry understood that the culture was what mattered, not the politics. Unfortunately, the courts are making the decision.

BECK: I will tell you that I don`t know what I expected when I met Jerry Falwell and when he was up the first time on this program, but I found him to be a nice, gentle and funny man.

Bill, David, thank you.

Back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Coming up, my conversation with a guy who claims to be Jesus Christ, and there are people that are giving him millions of dollars. Some say he`s the antichrist. He is back, and apparently, he lives in Florida these days.

This is not a joke. It`s actually kind of spooky in some ways. More on that a little later on in the program. And he will be appearing here.

First, the Senate is set to vote tomorrow on what could be the Democrats` last chance to actually deal with anything that, you know, matters to the American people before they all clock out for summer vacation. And it is immigration.

But while the congressional majority tries to figure out, you know, if it`s going to proceed with a bill that`s tantamount to amnesty for almost 12 million illegals in the country. The Republican presidential candidates have a better idea. They say distance, distance themselves.

"Washington Post" is reporting today that many of the leading GOP contenders, including McCain, who co-authored this very bill, has moved away from it now. It is a political albatross. It`s a hot topic for Republican candidates, so how are they going to handle it exactly?

Jonathan Allen, he`s a reporter for "Congressional Quarterly".

Jonathan, how does McCain actually distance himself from his own bill?

JONATHAN ALLEN, REPORTER, "CONGRESSIONAL QUARTERLY": Well, I think the way that he does it is to -- to just not be the public face of it. I mean, I think you see a lot of nuancing and a lot of softening of old positions in the presidential primary. And I think that`s what you`re going to see with McCain here.

BECK: But isn`t this exactly what people hate about politics? Isn`t this why people are sick of everybody in Washington? What are you doing? You either believe in it or you don`t. You either stand by it or you don`t.

ALLEN: I think you`ve hit something on the head there, Glenn. I mean, that is definitely the problem that a lot of people have with politicians that they say one thing in one capacity and another thing in another.

You can see this with a lot of the candidates right now. Someone saying, "Hey, when I was governor I did this, but now I want to do that." You know, that applies to both Romney and Giuliani. And you`ll also see that with the folks on the Democratic side, as well.

BECK: I mean, it is -- it is amazing that they think that we have such short memories, that we buy this. I mean, how stupid is -- is all of this stuff aimed at the 20 something that just hasn`t seen this happen over and over again, where somebody will tell you something. They change their position.

And then it`s like they found a spine, but it`s like those spines that, you know -- it`s like the sutures that they put in you now that dissolve. You don`t have to actually have them taken out. That`s the kind of spine these politicians have.

ALLEN: Glenn, I`ll leave the surgery to you with the sutures and the spine. But...

BECK: Well, come on, man. It`s -- you know, they know -- don`t the Republicans now know that the -- if you want a conservative, you`ve got to be tough on the border and security. So they know that, and so now they`re just playing like they`re tough. But if they`re elected they`re not actually going to do any of this, do you think?

ALLEN: Well, you know, it depends on the candidate. It depends on what they want if they get elected, if they`re looking for reelection and the need to please the conservative base, then they`ll do that.

You know, one of the things that you`re seeing here, and it`s important to remember, is that you`ve got senators and governors who represented states with a different constituency than they`re now playing, as Republican presidential candidates and a different constituency than they would eventually play to a general election.

BECK: I mean, I don`t even understand why people have to play to other people. Why don`t you just say what you mean and mean what you say and let the chips fall on the table where they are?

Jonathan, thanks a lot.

Now, there`s somebody else that knows a little bit about broken borders. His name is Darrell Ankarlo. He`s a radio talk show host in Phoenix at KTRF -- KTAR-FM.

Darrell, you actually went across the border from the Mexico side and crossed into America. What did you experience?

DARRELL ANKARLO, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yes. We actually went into Mexico, stayed there for a number of days. I wanted to see from their side what was going on as far as the illegal immigration, Border Patrol.

There`s nothing over there. They don`t care. They want their people to come here, Glenn. There`s no question about it. So when we decided to come back, the only guy that talked to me was a coyote, one of the leaders of the illegals in the desert. That`s the only guy that talked to me, and he was just trying to stop me long enough so his buddies could come and snag me up on the Mexican side.

Other than that, when I crossed the border, I did it without papers, walked right across, took me about six seconds, walked around for a little bit. And it was about 10, 15 minutes later that we saw our first U.S. border agent. They`re just overworked down there on the border.

BECK: I`ve got to tell you. You know, we talked about this on my radio program today with you, and you told the story. And you said, you know, "I feel bad for the border guards. I feel horrible for the border guards.

First of all, we have Johnny Sutton, who`s going to be on the program later on in this week. He`s finally going to answer some questions about what he did with Ramos and Compean and all of the other border guards. And I believe he`s persecuting.

But you know, you say you want more border guards. They can`t hold them in these jobs. They`re quitting faster than they can hire them. And why wouldn`t you quit? It`s a joke.

ANKARLO: Yes. At the same time, the morale is pretty high with the guys I saw. And that was in the Tucson sector, which is the most traveled part of America as far as the illegals are concerned. Forty percent of all the illegals coming, come through the Tucson sector.

In five and a half months, from October to right now, they picked up $640 million worth of drugs. So you know, if that`s what we got, how much was out there.

So we`re arming them with the infrared devices and the weaponry and everything. We just need more of them.

BECK: OK. The -- you said to me one of the most disturbing things -- we`ve only got about 30 seconds -- you said that the power down on the border in Mexico is not with the police, not with the government. Who`s it with?

ANKARLO: No, it`s the drug dealers. They control everything. You have a corrupt government. You have corrupt politicians on that side of the border. And you have people on this side of the border, our politicians, who are complicit in all of this.

And I`m calling out Calderon and his elected officials in Mexico. Get with the program. You are corrupt. You are breaking your own people`s back. You are the plantation owner, and you`ve created a modern-day slave. They`re the slaves right now, Glenn. And you know what? I`ve called it what it is, and we`re going to fight this hard down here on the border.

BECK: Thanks, Darrell. We`ll follow the story.

Up next, heartbreaking story of that search for the 4-year-old British girl. And what about the parents?

First, imagine if you were just starting first grade and somebody made this promise: "Graduate from high school and I`ll pay for college." In Oakland, California, a woman named Oral Lee Brown did just that. Now, how she kept her promise is what makes her today`s "CNN Hero".

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ORAL LEE BROWN, HELPED CHILDREN PAY FOR COLLEGE: These are our kids. We should at least take them to a position in their life that they can lead their way, and they can`t do it without an education.

GRAPHIC: Thirty-five percent of public school students in Oakland, California, never make it to graduation.

BROWN: An education can get you everything you want. You can go wherever you want to go. It`s the way out of the ghettos, bottom line.

YOLANDA PEEK, FORMER HIGH SCHOOL PRINCIPAL: She says, give me your first graders who are really struggling and who are most needy. I want to adopt the class and I want to follow the class until they graduate from high school. And she says that she was going to pay their college tuition.

BROWN: How many are going to college?

At the time I was making, I think, $45,000, $46,000 a year. So I committed $10,000 to the kids.

I grew up in Mississippi. I lived off of $2 a day. That`s what we got, $2 a day for picking cotton. And so I really feel that I was blessed from God. And so I cannot pay him back, but these kids are his kids. These kids, some of them are poor like I was.

LAQUITA WHITE, FORMER STUDENT: When you have that mentor like Ms. Brown, a very strong person, you can`t go wrong, because she`s on you constantly every day: "What are you doing? How are you doing?"

BROWN: The world doubted us. I was told that, "Lady, you cannot do it."

And I would say, "You know what? These kids are just like any other kids. The only thing, if they don`t have the love and they don`t have the support."

GRAPHIC: 19 of the 23 original students were sent to college.

BROWN: You`re looking at doctors and lawyers and one president of the United States.

When you give a kid an education and they get it up here, nobody or nothing can take it away.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Let me fill you in on the sad story of Madeleine McCann. She is a 4-year-old British girl who was abducted from her hotel room in Portugal almost two weeks ago.

She was left alone with her brother and her sister, both only 2 years old themselves, while the parents were out having dinner. What on earth were her parents thinking? Who leaves three small children all alone in a strange hotel in a foreign country?

Fortunately, officials now have a suspect in the disappearance, but they`re no closer to finding the girl. But you know what? Maybe it`s just me. I think we should hold the mom and dad partially accountable, at least. It`s hard to say, but the bitter truth is that their careless neglect isn`t just shameful. It`s borderline criminal.

Court TV`s Lisa Bloom joins me right now.

Lisa, let`s be straight up. If the kids weren`t alone, if the parents weren`t out eating dinner by themselves, leaving the kids in the hotel room, none of this would have happened.

LISA BLOOM, COURT TV ANCHOR: Well, it`s horrible, Glenn. Look, I got two kids, in addition to being a lawyer, representing abused kids for many years. It`s horrible. You cannot leave children that age alone. They`re too young to call 911 if there`s a problem. They`re too young to cry out. They`re too young to really even be verbal, the 2-year-olds. And so you`re absolutely right.

But there is a difference in the law between negligence and an intentional act. These parents were clearly negligent, but that`s not the same as a kidnapper who comes in through the window, intentionally grabs the kid and makes off with her.

BECK: I`m not saying that. Look, I don`t want to dog pile on these parents. I can`t even imagine what they`re going through. But good heavens. I mean, is nobody thinking here?

My wife -- my wife won`t even go and put the kids in an adjoining room without the monitor. She`s like -- she needs to hear them breathe. I swear to you, she says to me three times a night, "I think they`ve stopped breathing."

BLOOM: You`re right. And you`re right; they`re in a foreign country. They`re in a different place. You said, they`re not even in their own bedroom, where they might know their way around.

And the parents, who are both doctors, obviously people with resources. They`ve taken everybody to Portugal. Why not order something in or bring along a nanny? There are obviously a lot of ways to get around this so you can still have adult time.

But you can`t leave kids this age alone. Look, they could drown in a couple inches of water. They could stick their finger into a light socket. There`s a lot of other risks, too.

BECK: The odds we`re going to find this sweet little girl alive? I mean, we`re now 12 days into this. Do they ever turn out good at the end with 12 days?

BLOOM: Well, Elizabeth Smart, remember her, Glenn?

BECK: That`s true.

BLOOM: She was found after many months, OK, but she`s the one who stands out as the exception. We know that the first three hours are critical. When kids are abducted and killed, about 75 percent of that happens in the first three hours. And every day that passes, of course, it gets less and less likely there`s going to be a good outcome.

BECK: And tell me about this guy. He lived like a hundred yards away, and it was actually the media that pointed him out, because he was translating, right?

BLOOM: Yes. Yes, he kept coming through the police tape, trying to get into the building, the holiday apartment of this family, saying he could help them. He had a daughter about this age. He could help translate.

And all of the journalists and reporters who had been flocking around this story said, "This guy seems awfully suspicious." And they`re the ones who reported him to the police.

The police have scoured his home. They`ve drained the pool. They`ve tried to find evidence. He`s been held for questioning. But in Portugal, you can be a suspect without being arrested, and he`s still free right now.

BECK: He is -- I mean, when you talk about suspicion, it`s always the guy who`s being helpful. And I learned that from every episode of "Columbo."

Lisa, thanks a lot.

BLOOM: Thank you, Glenn.

BECK: We`ve stopped paying attention, and Iran is closer to a nuclear weapon than ever before. Trust me on this one. You do not want to miss tonight`s "Real Story". It`s coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Coming up, have you ever asked yourself, what would Jesus do? Yes, me, too. Tonight, however, we get to ask him in person, kind of. You`re going to meet a guy who claims he`s a resurrected Jesus, oh, and he also says he`s the anti-Christ, as well. He`s the guy down in Florida that his followers are tattooing 666 on themselves. He`s got that on him, as well. Don`t want to miss this interview. It`s coming up.

First, welcome to "The Real Story." I want to remind you just a few of the stories that have made big headlines in the media over the last few months. We had the Virginia Tech shootings, we had Imus getting fired, Paris sentenced to prison, Anna Nicole`s baby needed after, Britney shaved her head, went into rehab, then got back out of rehab. Rosie O`Donnell said a bunch of insane things, then quit. David Hasselhoff got hammered and made a video. Alec Baldwin went off on his daughter. Miss USA partied too much. An astronaut went crazy, and Sanjaya was voted off "American Idol."

You know why everybody has spent so many hours infatuated with these stupid stories? It`s because they`re all about celebrities or violence or public embarrassment. And with a few exceptions, the stories themselves weren`t all that important. But what was important is that we kept watching like stupid zombies that we are.

We watch the news because they fed our hunger for entertainment. They played right into the narcissism that we talked about yesterday, the narcissism that is America, unfortunately, today.

Now, I hate to play Mr. Gloomy, you know, and I know I`m not going to set any ratings records for it. But the real story is, while we`re watching all this crap, our enemies aren`t going away. They`re not watching it. They`re not going away, just because we get distracted by the stories like the D.C. madam, which, by the way, was kind of a letdown, wasn`t it? Don`t you think ABC is kicking themselves, going, "What the hell happened to that story?"

Almost two months have passed since the U.N. passed any approved sanctions against Iran. And guess what? They haven`t stopped enriching uranium just because we stopped paying attention. In fact, surprise, the IAEA made a surprise inspection last Sunday and proved that they`re enriching more uranium than ever before.

According to inspectors, about 1,300 centrifuges were actively producing fuel during the inspector, another 600 in some stage of construction and, most frightening of all, a diplomat claims that a total of 8,000 centrifuges could be in place by the end of this year.

Let me put that into perspective, you know, for those of us that don`t have a do-it-yourself centrifuge kit: 3,000 centrifuges operating for one year could make enough nuclear material for you to make a bomb. You do the math on 8,000 of them. Good news is, the current uranium is only enriched to about 5 percent and weapons-grade uranium needs to be enriched about 90 percent. Bad news? Experts say Iran could do that in as little as four months, but there is one small problem.

I`ve been telling you about this for months. You know, we`ve been distracted by Paris Hilton. They have to evict the U.N. inspectors first. That`s the tipping point I told you to watch for. Once that happens, there is no doubt as to Iran`s true intentions and no doubt of what we or Israel will be forced to do to stop them. That is not good news.

The only question is whether we`ll all be too distracted by Lindsay Lohan`s next drinking binge to even notice.

All right, enough of Mr. Gloomy. Did you see the "Girls Gone Wild" founder, the guy who went to prison? Apparently -- I saw it in a news story -- crying in prison every night. You`ve got to perk up when you hear that, don`t you? I know I did. "Girls Gone Wild," hey, now America`s listening. Congratulations, you failed my test, but you`re a true American.

And now that I have your attention, welcome back, Mr. Gloomy. Right now, three of our soldiers are reportedly being held by an Al Qaeda group in Iraq. Did you hear that? Al Qaeda, the terrorist group. This isn`t a Sunni-Shia civil war thing or an Iraqi insurgent thing. This is Al Qaeda, the people who killed over 3,000 of our own and have promised to kill hundreds of thousands of more.

The real story is that it`s time to find some spines in our capital. I don`t want to hear another word about timetables for withdraw or cutting off the funding for the war. In fact, I don`t want to hear another word that might even give the perception of our weakness to enemies at this time.

Remember that feeling that you had on 9/11? Do you remember it, that feeling that you had the days after 9/11, the feeling that you would give everything you had to take these people down who had done this to us? Well, it`s time to get that feeling back, America. It`s time to prove that when it counts we can put aside all of our partisan bickering and come together to fight, not as Republicans or Democrats, but as Americans.

Unfortunately, since most people won`t even pay attention unless a story involves Paris Hilton and "Girls Gone Wild" -- actually, preferably both -- that`s probably not going to happen. It`s going to be a lot easier said than done.

Dan Goure, he is a military strategist at Lexington Institute. And Jack Liles is a former Navy commander and military analyst.

Dan, let me start with you. Our country is absolutely riddled with ADD. The U.N. sanctions are in place, but the U.N. knows -- I mean, not the U.N., but Iran knows we`re not going to do anything about it. We are weak right now.

DAN GOURE, MILITARY STRATEGIST: That`s absolutely true. The sanctions are being ratcheted up a notch at a time, like going from a to b to c. What we need to do to Iran is to go right to z and show them just how painful it`s going to be to oppose us and the U.N. on this issue.

BECK: And, Dan, we are playing beat the clock with them.

GOURE: Absolutely. You just said it. If you`re going to have 8,000 centrifuges, and it`s a matter from that point of months, if they want to, to have enough enriched uranium for a bomb.

BECK: OK. And, Jack, let me go to Iraq and Al Qaeda, because I think these things are tied together. I mean, we know that Iran is in Iraq and Al Qaeda is in Iraq through Iran, et cetera, et cetera. They warned us not to look for these missing soldiers. What do you think that warning means? Is that just hyperbole?

LT. CMDR. JACK LILES, FORMER U.S. NAVY: I kind of think it`s just rhetoric on their part. Obviously, it`s not in their interest for us to go door to door through a large region that they may be present in. We`re already starting to see a little bit of fruit from this, apparently, with picking up some high-value targets kind of by chance as a result of this search.

So I`m not so sure whether this Al Qaeda snatching of these troops is a strategic move orchestrated at a much higher level or if this was just more of kind of a tactical opportunity that popped up for them and they took advantage of it.

BECK: So what happens if we find these soldiers, they`ve done something to them, God forbid, that they`re dead or they`ve been tortured? Does that change anything?

LILES: No, we`re at war with these people. So it`s part of the casualties of battle, I`m afraid. We don`t like it. It makes our troops very uncomfortable to know that some of their comrades are in a captured status like this, but ultimately this is part of our war and part of the sacrifices those troops are making.

BECK: But, honestly, Jack and Dan, both of you guys, do you really think -- I mean, you just said we`re at war. Do you really think we are? I mean, I know we technically are, and I know our soldiers feel that way, but I`ve got to tell you, with what I see in Washington, D.C., this isn`t a war that I recognize. We`re not fighting this to win. What are we doing right now?

GOURE: Look, the Army is at war. The Marine Corps is at war. Not even the whole U.S. military is at war, much less the American people. We thought that we could fight this conflict on the cheap, in dollar terms, in sacrifice. That`s not the case. We are in a generations-long conflict with Al Qaeda, and we need to step up to that.

BECK: Jack, weren`t we supposed to learn this lesson in Vietnam? Didn`t we promise each other that we did learn this lesson? Where did we go wrong? How did this happen?

LILES: I don`t know. You know, the spirit of containing Al Qaeda and defeating Al Qaeda and stopping random terrorist acts like 9/11 was the right objective, but this has all been executed so poorly, similar to Vietnam, just a different set of mistakes with a different set of circumstances, but it`s just really been in the execution and lack of a smart strategy.

BECK: I mean, here we have -- we have the Democrats saying that we`ve already lost. I mean, they want to do everything they can to stop this war. The Republicans are now starting to say this. We`re sending a clear message to our enemies that we`re just weak and pathetic and, go ahead, come get us.

Is there any way or anything that could happen that would actually turn us around? Is it possible to convince the Middle East that we`re not a bunch of losers and, you know, girl-fighters?

LILES: Well, that`s what I`m listening for carefully from the next set of political leaders in Washington is, what is a strategy to somehow save us from this poorly executed mess we`ve got ourselves into? Pulling out, as we all know, is just going to create some type of vacuum situation there that`s going to be completely unacceptable to our interests, so...

BECK: And, Dan, I know that you believe -- I think you do -- that Ahmadinejad is a twelver. He`s a nut job that is really trying to bring on Armageddon, right? I mean, there`s no way you can deal with this guy.

GOURE: There doesn`t appear to be. What you have to do is go past him to the rest of the leadership, the ayatollahs and such, and demonstrate to them exactly the kind of pain that they`re in for if they unleash this man or allow him to not be leashed.

BECK: OK. And one last question for both of you, and I only have time for a yes or no answer. Do you see on either side -- and you don`t have to name names -- do you on either side a candidate that you think can turn this around, and will go in there, and just fight a war the way a war is supposed to be fought?

GOURE: Yes, one.

LILES: Not yet for me.

BECK: I`ve got to ask. Do you want to say who it was?

GOURE: Sure, it`s McCain. He understands what this is about.

BECK: OK. Jack, Daniel, that`s kind of uncomfortable for an alcoholic, but Jack and Dan, thanks.

That`s "The Real Story" tonight. Next, my exclusive interview with a Florida man who says he is the reincarnation of Jesus Christ. This is must-see TV.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: This is the episode of the glorious appearing. It is promised in the scriptures that Jesus will be seen when he appears, he`ll be seen around the world, simultaneously, technically possible with Headline News. So who is Jesus? This is the guy we`ve been telling you about from Miami. I`m not kidding you. Jesus has demanded seven minutes of air time tonight. We`ve told Jesus six minutes. If I am all of a sudden swarmed with flies on tonight`s episode, we`ll know what happened there, huh?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: Kind of a big day in the religious world, with the passing of Jerry Falwell, and religious experts all wonder, what will it be like when Jesus returns? Will he arrive with a chorus of angels and look down upon us from his majestic perch in clouds, spreading his message of love, peace and forgiveness? Scholars, relax and finally catch up on all the episodes of "Lost" you`ve been missing. You no longer have to worry about when Jesus will return or what he`ll look like. He`s already here.

Turns out the son of God is a 60-year-old former heroin addict and convict, a divorced father of four, who was born in Puerto Rico, and now lives in southern Florida with his second wife. So instead of constantly wondering, what would Jesus do, let`s ask him.

Give it up for the reincarnation of Jesus Christ himself, or so he says, Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda.

Jose, do I call you Jose? What do I call you?

JOSE LUIS DE JESUS, "THE APOSTLE": That`s fine, Jose Luis is my first name.

BECK: OK. Jose Luis, your supporters are known for people who tattoo 666 on their body, and I understand you have a 666 tattooed on yours.

DE JESUS: Yes.

BECK: Why is that?

DE JESUS: Well, the first person that was called anti-Christ was the apostle Paul, because, in his times, he taught people not to put the eyes on Jesus of Nazareth, because Jesus of Nazareth, he wasn`t a Christian. He was Jewish. So he practiced Jewish religion.

So Paul said, if we know Christ after the flesh, we don`t look at him anymore. So that`s why the apostles taught that Paul was against Jesus, but really he was presenting Jesus after the cross, not before the cross.

BECK: But, OK, so you`re saying that 666 thing, you know, the mark of the beast, has nothing to do with that?

DE JESUS: No, that`s -- see, John was a member of the circumcision, and he didn`t see clear. That`s why he said I saw a man...

BECK: You do see clear, because did angels appear to you and say that you are Jesus reincarnated?

DE JESUS: Well, two angels, in 1973, while I was living in Boston, Massachusetts, they came to me, and they told me, "Prepare, because the king of kings and lord of lords is coming to you tonight to anoint you for the ministry."

I didn`t understand the whole concept of anointing me. Maybe I thought like you see evangelicals does, they lay hands on you with oil, whatever. It wasn`t like that. When he came, he integrated himself within me, and all of a sudden, you know, this knowledge, this wisdom about the gospel of the old circumcision and that the true gospel was in those 14 letters of Paul. And then Paul said that, when Jesus comes for the second time, he will be teaching according to his gospel. And in 2,000 years, I`m the only one teaching who is according to Paul.

BECK: You know, let me ask you this question, because, you know, have you seen -- you must be flattered that WWJD thing, do you like that? I mean, as Jesus, do you like the WWJD, what would Jesus do? You know when people are asking, what would Jesus do?

DE JESUS: Jesus, you know, that is a lot of things that they say about Jesus, but, you know, they expect him in the clouds, but he`s saying he will come as a thief in the night.

BECK: But aren`t you Jesus?

DE JESUS: I am Jesus Christ man.

BECK: OK. And it`s weird, Jesus said he was going to come back as a thief in the night, and you`ve been arrested for petty theft. But the band that says, "What would Jesus do?" Let me ask you this, you have a Cartier Pasha watch -- I`m a watch collector -- and it`s encrusted in diamonds. I understand that`s a $142,000 watch. You have a 7 Series BMW, an armored Lexus. You live on $130,000 a year, but they say that you live over your lifestyle and your means. You were arrested for heroin and petty theft. Wouldn`t the question really be, what would Jesus not do?

DE JESUS: That`s a good way of putting it. But, look, I live humbly. I have a modest salary for the income that I...

BECK: $130,000?

DE JESUS: Yes.

BECK: That puts you in a rich category, by most politicians` standards.

DE JESUS: Yes, but the millions that come from the ministry that we invest all over the world, those $130,000, I even use that part even for the ministry, you know?

BECK: OK. But you have people who will give you millions of dollars. You have donors that give millions of dollars to your ministry.

DE JESUS: I have millionaires with the congregation. And I made them happy, you know, by finding the truth, by taking that veil out of their eyes, and light in their eyes of the understanding. I help them become millionaires, because once you know the grace of God, you know, you prosper. So in changing, they give me money for the ministry, because they know all other people know what they know.

BECK: Jesus, it`s been good to have you on. It really has. We`re out of time. I wanted to ask if you felt a little ripped off by your birthday being on Christmas or if you get the two presents or not, but thank you very much, and we`ll be back in just a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Well, you write them, I read them. It`s time for your letters and e-mails.

First up, many of you wrote in about the interview I did with Reverend Al Sharpton where I challenged him on his statement that Mormons don`t believe in God. Brooke from Provo, Utah, wrote in. She said, "I really appreciate how you handled the interview with Al Sharpton. I felt you were very straightforward about how you felt on the subject. At the same time, you were respectful and it didn`t turn into a fight."

Brooke, thanks a lot. I get a lot of mail from people who wondered why I wasn`t more aggressive with Sharpton, why I didn`t go for his throat. And, believe me, oh, I did think about it. But my own faith and my integrity as a broadcaster prevented me from turning the discussion into a professional wrestling match. The sad truth is, Al Sharpton, I think, has become more activist than man, and I don`t even think he even understands why so many Mormons or otherwise are so personally offended.

For more of my thoughts on the matter on Al Sharpton and a look at him that I had that I don`t think many people have seen, check out my blog at glennbeck.com.

Collette writes in from the Virgin Islands. She says, "Glenn, I can`t believe you aired that footage of the 91-year-old man being pummeled while you chastised the bystanders for watching. Are you just as guilty when you use the disgusting display as enticement for your viewers to stay tuned? It didn`t work. I changed to `Everybody Loves Raymond` as soon as I saw it."

Collette, believe me, when I saw that footage of that 91-year-old man being attacked, it was tough to watch. I cringed every time it came on the screen. But here`s the thing: It is news. And no matter how disturbing the realities of our story or how chilling the images, I thought it was important for people to see what a state our society is really in.

I`m sorry, I mean, I really can`t fault you for switching over to "Everybody Loves Raymond," because really I`ve always felt that Raymond Romano was a gifted observational comedian that developed into quite a fine actor. And if you own "Welcome to Mooseport," you know exactly what I`m talking about.

If I would have been forced to watch -- or make this Sophie`s choice, the choice between surveillance video or a landmark sitcom, I don`t know what I would have done. I don`t know what Jesus would do. I should have asked him a few minutes ago. That`s why, just for you, Collette, we decided to put this together. Sit back, relax and enjoy this little treat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s an award your brother got for his sports column.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Never ends for Raymond.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, Robbie.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody loves Raymond. If I go to work, people shoot at me. Ray goes to work, people do the wave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: You know what? I`m with you. I watched "Everybody Loves Raymond." America, you`re welcome. Now you know. From New York, good night.

END

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