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CNN Larry King Live
Interview with Larry Flynt; Spector Trial Heats Up; How Much Is Anna Nicole's Will Worth?
Aired May 16, 2007 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, exclusive, Hustler publisher Larry Flynt battled the late Reverend Jerry Falwell all the way to the Supreme Court. And they had an historic debate right here on this show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY FLYNT, PUBLISHER, HUSTLER: I think Jerry is full of it, Larry.
KING: You think he is...
FLYNT: Full of it!
KING: ... full of it, right now?
FLYNT: Full of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Now in his first interview since Falwell's death yesterday, Larry Flynt tells how the man he called a bitter enemy became his friend.
Then the sensational murder trial that's the talk of Hollywood. A chauffeur testifies that he saw music legend Phil Spector step out of his mansion four years ago, gun in hand, and say: "I think I killed somebody." And Spector himself now seen speaking out in his own defense for the first time in a video made two years ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHIL SPECTOR, ACCUSED OF MURDER: It was physically impossible for me to have administered the death wound to her in any shape, way or form.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Plus, just how much was Anna Nicole Smith worth? Her will has been officially filed. What's in it? And what does it mean for baby Dannielynn and her daddy Larry Birkhead?
We have exclusive details with some of the attorneys involved. It is all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
We begin with Larry Flynt, the head of Larry Flynt Publications, one of the major publishing houses in the world. Jerry Falwell sued him in 1983 over an ad parody in Hustler that suggested that Falwell's first sexual encounter was with his mother in a outhouse.
There you see that famous ad. The high profile First Amendment free speech case went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court and in 1988, the justices went unanimously for Flynt, with Chief Justice Rehnquist writing the majority opinion. Larry Flynt joins us here in Los Angeles.
How did you hear the news of Jerry Falwell's death.
FLYNT: I woke up this morning and it was on the TV.
KING: What was your first reaction?
FLYNT: It didn't surprise me.
KING: Because?
FLYNT: He was close to 400 pounds. And at 70-odd-years, anyone knows you don't carry around that kind of weight at that age.
KING: Four hundred pounds?
FLYNT: Yes. He was very, very close to that.
KING: Did you talk to him about it?
FLYNT: Yes, I talked to him. I gave him a couple of diets. I even faxed them to his wife. And he just loved to eat, you know.
KING: Couldn't stop?
FLYNT: One of these guys that don't like to stop smoking or stop eating, you know? And so they just let it kill them.
KING: Was your first encounter with him in court?
FLYNT: Well, yes, but we lost at the trial level.
KING: I know.
FLYNT: His backyard there, in Roanoke. And then we petitioned the Supreme Court not knowing whether they would grant cert or not. And the Supreme Court did. But I still felt I was going to lose that case. And I think that Falwell felt that he was going to win it.
And here's the reason why. I believe that Falwell looked at it like I did. This is a pornographer versus the preacher. So there was no win in there for me.
KING: Therefore, you were shocked that not only do you win, but you win 9-0?
FLYNT: Yes, unanimous decision. But I think that the justices were smart enough to know that, you know, it would have left the First Amendment in shambles had they have upheld Falwell's decision.
KING: Did you talk to them after that decision?
FLYNT: I know a couple of people who did talk to him about it.
KING: Was he shocked?
FLYNT: Oh, did I talk to Falwell about it after that incident? No. I really didn't. And when the movie came out about my life, "People Versus Larry Flynt," and I had an autobiography out, and you had me on this show...
KING: Sure did.
FLYNT: ... with Falwell. And that was our first contact.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Really? Let's see. This was historic. The first contact between two men who had so viciously opposed each other legally occurred on this program. Let's watch a little.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
KING: What are your feelings right now, Jerry, toward Larry Flynt, today, right now?
REV. JERRY FALWELL, FOUNDER, MORAL MAJORITY: Oh, I never had any ill feelings towards him. I think that his business is sleaze and garbage and I think that it's demeaning towards women and children.
KING: But no hard feelings toward him?
FALWELL: Of course not. The next time around, Larry, when he accepts Christ, he will really meet it and go on and get rid of that magazine and go for God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Now you told me, Larry, you expected a fight that night.
FLYNT: Yes, I really did. You know, I...
KING: What happened?
FLYNT: I even talked to you and said, you know, this guy is going to run away with this show if you let him. You said, I have been at this long enough.
KING: No, I wasn't going to let anybody control it. But we really thought -- everyone at CNN thought this would be a battle royale.
FLYNT: Yes. Well... KING: He disarmed you, though.
FLYNT: He put his arm around me and started hugging me. He put his -- another hand on my leg, you know, and I'm thinking, where is this guy really coming from? So he really disarmed me in a sense of where there's not that much I can say. So I just, you know, let him do his thing.
KING: Now I also understand that he called you in Beverly Hills some time after that show?
FLYNT: Yes. Well, my secretary tells me, said, unannounced, Jerry Falwell in the lobby.
KING: Oh, he came to you?
FLYNT: Yes, came to Beverly Hills.
KING: What happened?
FLYNT: Well, he wanted to talk. He came back and he sat down in my office. We spent two hours talking. And we did a lot of reminiscing about the case and he thinks he understands the issue better now, and probably would not have gone through it if he had to go through it again.
KING: How well then did you understand him?
FLYNT: Well, it took a while longer. You know, he told me that he was getting a lot of speaking requests for he and I to debate. And he wanted to know if I wanted to do some of the university and college campuses. So we decided to do that. And...
KING: And did you?
FLYNT: Yes, we did. I remember, we were coming back from Florida and Reverend couldn't get a flight out. So I said, that's all right, I will drop you off in Lynchburg. It's going my way anyway.
KING: Took him on your plane.
FLYNT: Took him on my plane.
KING: What a story.
FLYNT: And he said -- we got there and he said, circle the football field. And we land in there and all of these kids were there to take pictures with him and I together.
KING: What a story.
FLYNT: And I took pictures with all of the small ones. And it was an amazing thing.
KING: We will get a break and when we come back, I'm going to ask Larry Flynt what he thought was Jerry Falwell's charm. Why did people who disagreed with him so much still like him? We will come right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FALWELL: And nobody is trying to tell him who he can sleep with and I sleep with. All I'm saying is that what he does, I know as a pastor, adversely affects children and women and there's no way to deny that.
FLYNT: These magazines aren't for children.
FALWELL: Those are the victims. Well, it doesn't matter who they are for. The fact is -- and there is nobody is listening to us right now, Larry, who thinks that your magazines are not read by children. It's like thinking children don't smoke.
KING: What's worse, Philip Morris or Hustler?
FALWELL: Oh, Hustler is worse than about anything I can think of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FALWELL: I believe that he's not an atheist. And I believe the day will come when this guy will sit right here and tell you...
(CROSSTALK)
FLYNT: Hallelujah, Jerry.
FALWELL: And all this. And I don't believe for a moment in his heart of hearts that he doesn't believe there is a God. And the day will come that he will acknowledge that himself and I pray that I'll be around to put my arms around you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: You're not ready for that, are you?
FLYNT: No, no.
KING: Last night's text question was about Jerry Falwell. Will he be remembered as a pastor or a political figure? It was even split, 50 percent voted pastor, 50 percent voted political figure. We will have a new text question at the end of the show.
What did he have, Larry, that made you, despite all of your differences, going to court, like him?
FLYNT: Well, I disagreed with him on absolutely everything. On a woman's right to choose, gay rights, you know, (INAUDIBLE). There was nothing that I agreed with him about.
KING: But?
FLYNT: But after getting to know him, I realized that he was sincere. He's not out there trying to make a buck, you know. He really believes it, whether other people believe it or not. Now our first...
KING: So he was not a hustler?
FLYNT: No, not like a Jimmy Swaggart or somebody. But, you know, my mother told me. She said -- son, she said, you will meet people that you don't like. But she said, when you finally meet them in person, you will always find characteristics about them that you do like. And I think Reverend Falwell falls into that category.
You see that he was sincere. And some of the things he did, Larry, he was so (INAUDIBLE), when he put out the thing that Teletubbies were gay and I'm watching it on TV, so I called him in Lynchburg. I said, Jerry, what are you doing? I said, they don't need it. Nobody cares.
KING: But despite it all, you liked him?
FLYNT: Yes, I liked him. But he told me at that particular time, he said, well, I probably should have put more thought into this because I took this from one of the papers here at the university. So you know, he -- I think what got him in trouble was just saying anything...
KING: Off the top of his head.
FLYNT: ... that come to his mind, yes.
KING: We are going to show you another clip from that historic interview, debate between Flynt did turn into a choice meeting between Flynt and Jerry Falwell. That's a part of, by the way, this new series, the new DVD out, "The Greatest Interviews of LARRY KING LIVE." It's available at kingoftalkdvd.com. Kingoftalkdvd.com.
And the tape you're about to see is part of this collection, watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FALWELL: Before either one of you or us are dead, kiddie porn will be legal tender in this country.
FLYNT: When you talk about kiddie porn...
FALWELL: I didn't say you were going to do it.
FLYNT: But see, that's a totally separate issue.
KING: You said he's hypocritical. What is the hypocrisy?
FLYNT: Well, I just think to ride around in a private jet being paid for by little old ladies' Social Security checks, you know, is just not a very nice thing to be doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We have an e-mail for Larry Flynt from Rick in Decatur, Alabama: "Despite your obvious differences, what, if anything, do you think that you and Jerry Falwell had in common with each other?"
FLYNT: I think he cared about people, and I cared about people. And even though the way neither one of us communicated with others, we were sensitive to this. And I don't think that Falwell was mean- spirited at all, at all.
But you talk to the adamant leaders and gay rights and the women's movement and everything, and they just shrill at the mentioning of his name. But there was two sides of him. There was a dichotomy. You know, one side was just sort of like a character of himself, you know. He was a very complex individual.
KING: Do you -- are you, Larry, at all embarrassed by anything you publish?
FLYNT: No, I don't think I'm embarrassed. We do a lot of political satire and dark humor and stuff that we probably shouldn't be. I tell you the one thing I published, that if I had to do over, I wouldn't have done.
When Gerald Ford was president, and his wife had to have a double mastectomy, we ran a cartoon in the Christmas issue that said: "All I want for Christmas is my two front tits." Now I think that was very insensitive.
KING: Beyond bad taste.
FLYNT: Beyond bad taste. I would not have run it again.
KING: Good that you take it back tonight. Thanks, Larry.
FLYNT: All right.
KING: Larry Flynt, his book is "Sex, Lies & Politics," the Head of Larry Flynt Publications, an extraordinary look at an extraordinary relationship, Larry Flynt and Jerry Falwell.
Up next, the record mogul accused of murder and the bizarre videotape that seems to take center stage in the case. The latest on Phil Spector when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIBILA VARGAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: On February 3rd, 2003, Spector was arrested after Lana Clarkson's lifeless body was found in his castle-like home near the Los Angeles suburb of Alhambra. The victim of a single gunshot in the mouth.
His defense team maintains the B-movie actress took her own life. It's the highest-profile murder trial to be televised since O.J. Simpson's.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: The saga of Phil Spector, the nationally telecast trial. He's on trial for murder, and we welcome three great reporters. Jim Moret, the chief correspondent for "Inside Edition"; Harvey Levin, managing of tmz.com; and Beth Karas, COURT TV correspondent covering this trial. In fact she was in court today.
The strange saga of this whole story took a bizarre turn today. A video of Spector talking about the death of the victim, Lana Clarkson, has surfaced. Apparently it was taken quite some time ago. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Only "Inside Edition" can show you Spector's video version of what happened the night Lana Clarkson was shot to death in his Southern California castle.
SPECTOR: The deceased, who was standing when she was took her own life and she was 5'11", and she would have about 6'2" with heels on, which she was wearing at the time of her death, and that the gun was in a downward position, I'm 5'5", it would have been physically impossible for me to have administered the death wound to her in any way, shape or form.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Jim Moret of "Inside Edition," why did this surface now?
JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": Well, we got the tape from Michelle Blaine (ph), who was Phil Spector's assistant and was producing a couple of videos for Phil Spector a couple of years ago. This particular video was originally intended to be shown on the Internet as part of his defense. He was going to speak to the people, as it were, in his own words.
KING: Without having to take the stand?
MORET: Well, no, no, he simply wanted to get the word out from his perspective before the trial began what happened that night. And this was shot over two days. He was wearing two outfits. One, a Hawaiian shirt and then he changed into more -- you know, a suit.
And he was talking about what happened that night. He never talks about Lana Clarkson by name. He calls her "the deceased" or "the female." And he maintains that she took her own life. He had nothing to do with it.
KING: Did you see this tape, Beth?
BETH KARAS, COURT TV CORRESPONDENT: I only saw portions of it, but it was really the talk around the courthouse, outside the courtroom.
KING: Impressive?
KARAS: You know, and this is not going to be a part of the trial.
KING: It is only if he take the stands.
KARAS: No -- yes, exactly. He cannot get this in without taking the stand.
KING: Of course.
KARAS: But it is -- my impression is it is nothing new. I mean, he has been disavowing anything to do with the shooting.
KING: To whom?
KARAS: Well, he has made statements to reporters. He has been interviewed for magazines. His lawyers of course, their whole defense is that is a self-inflicted wound. And they claim to have 10 points of forensic evidence to support that. But the prosecution will have a response to that.
KING: Do you think he will take the stand?
KARAS: You know, it's speculation. I really don't think he will. He has got a lot of baggage. He is going to open the door to a lot of stuff this jury shouldn't hear.
KING: Harvey, you always have an interesting read on things such as this, although things such as this don't come up all the time. What is your read?
HARVEY LEVIN, MANAGING EDITOR, TMZ.COM: No, they don't. Well, he has just got huge problems in this case. I mean, you have got an M.O. here. You have got a guy who, at least if you listen to four other women, that every time he doesn't get his way when they are in his house, he pulls a gun on them.
So it's not like this is this bizarre thing that happens. And when these women keep saying, he pulled a gun on me, he pulled a gun on me, he pulled a gun on me, you start to believe it wasn't Lana Clarkson wanting to commit suicide.
KING: OK. Let me play devil's advocate, in a sense. What is the motive? One. And two, is it premeditated? Did he, going home from the restaurant, say, I think I want to kill her?
LEVIN: No. I mean, I don't believe...
KING: So they are never going to get a first degree conviction.
LEVIN: No. I don't think...
KING: What is he on trial for? KARAS: He's charged with second.
KING: Second.
LEVIN: And you know what, if you listen to some of the witnesses. He was drunk. That this was a pattern where he would drink. He would bring women home. He wouldn't get his way. And they were scared and then he would point a gun at them.
Well, that's what the prosecution is saying here. And logic sometimes is extremely pervasive in these cases.
KING: What do you think, Jim?
MORET: Well, it's not just these four or five women that have taken the stand. On this tape Phil Spector says there are 10, 11, 12 women who will say that I pulled a gun on him. And he holds up a check which is made out for $100,000. He said, I will give each and every one of those women $100,000 if they can pass a polygraph.
He was very well aware that there were more than four or five women who would make these claims. And Harvey's right, this establishes a pattern of behavior, showing a disregard for somebody else. You know that if you play with a gun, whether it be for sexual play or whatever other reason, that it's possible, very likely, somebody could get hurt or killed.
KING: Could the jury get alternatives, Beth, to second degree, like negligent homicide or manslaughter?
KARAS: A type of manslaughter, perhaps. Yes. I mean, the defense may request it. You know, we are far from that, but it is possible they will get a manslaughter charge. And I wouldn't be surprised if he was offered manslaughter that -- nobody will tell me that, if he was offered that...
KING: A plea bargain?
KARAS: Right, and -- but it would require the state prison. And at 67 years old, even a five-year sentence is almost life. Right? I mean, it's tough to do prison time.
KING: Did you have to pay for this tape, Jim?
MORET: We generally don't pay for anything. We entered into licensing...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Harvey thinks you do.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
KING: I'm only kidding. Harvey thinks everybody pays. MORET: Let me make it clear, this tape is owned by Michelle Blaine and her production company. We license it as a matter of course.
And, Harvey, you can talk about this as well. It's not unusual for shows to license the use of a certain amount of tape. And, Harvey?
LEVIN: That is true. That's absolutely true. Everybody does it.
MORET: But we do not give the tape...
LEVIN: But a lot of people deny it, but everybody does it.
KING: Everybody does it. That's par for the course?
LEVIN: That is total par for the course.
KING: Is this trial going as you expected, Harvey? Or what surprised you?
LEVIN: Nothing surprised me. I mean, I think it is going according to plan for the prosecution. I mean, the key witness today, this limo driver who says...
KING: Yes, tell me about him.
LEVIN: Well, I mean, you know, this guy says, I dropped Phil Spector and Lana Clarkson off and then all of a sudden he comes out and he says: "I think I killed somebody," at least according to the driver.
KING: Why was he waiting at the house if it was Spector's house?
LEVIN: I'm thinking that he was probably going to take Lana Clarkson home, or at least that was...
MORET: Back to her car.
LEVIN: But what was really interesting, when we -- when I was doing "Celebrity Justice," I remember seeing the day of the murder -- the day of her death, that his passenger door was ajar. And I couldn't figure out, it was like he made a fast get away.
And today he said, I was afraid for my life. I mean, this guy is coming out and saying, I -- you know, he saw this woman laying there and Phil Spector is there with a gun. So it made sense why he might have just bee-lined it out of there.
KING: He was hired for that night only, Beth?
KARAS: Yes. He was a fill-in driver. The regular driver wasn't working that night. And so he had worked 13 or 14 times before since the previous November. KING: We will take a break. When we come back, we will hear from that driver and lots more to go on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPECTOR: Greetings, I'm Phil Spector. Welcome to my castle. I have no idea where the servants are. I think they are out robbing other houses, bringing in new furniture for mine. Come right in. Let me get you the right -- (INAUDIBLE) let me get you a better song (INAUDIBLE) you will sit and join me in my depression. We will all take new Prozac-lite and we will have a wonderful time together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he give you orders to stop at the front gate as opposed to going on and proceeding onto the back door where you normally dropped him off?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you clearly understand him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you clearly understand Mr. Spector when he stepped out of the doorway with the gun in his hand?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were his exact words, Mr. DeSouza (ph)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said "I think I killed somebody."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, HOST: That was the chauffeur testifying today. How impacting was it, Beth?
KARAS: It was a very, very important time in the courtroom. The jurors, who sometimes, you know, were taking notes and, you know, seemed to be a little distracted, were on the edge of their seats for him, sitting up straight, leaning in towards the witness to catch every word he's saying. It was riveting.
KING: Key witness so far?
KARAS: The key witness, absolutely the key witness, the only one who put that incriminating statement coming out of his mouth.
KING: Do we know how many witnesses are scheduled for the defense? KARAS: There's a long witness list. For the defense, no, I do not know. But they have a lot of forensic witnesses and they may have some character witnesses but they have to be careful with that. But they have a lot of forensic types.
KING: Any major forensic types?
KARAS: Yes, Dr. Baden, Dr. Cyril Wecht, Dr. Henry Lee?
KING: They're all for the defense?
KARAS: Yes.
KING: Harvey, isn't that going to be important, when you got a case of where the gun was pointed?
LEVIN: Do you remember...
KING: All three of those have been on this show many times. All three are highly regarded.
LEVIN: They're really good. Do you remember "The Twilight Zone" case where the helicopter came down and...
KING: Sure.
LEVIN: ... the reason in that case and it's relevant. The reason in that case that the prosecution lost is because they got so technical and the prosecution got sucked into all of the technical aerodynamics. But they didn't just say, hey, they were flying a helicopter too low under kids.
Well, in this case, if the prosecution says, look, you can argue anything you want, you put guns in people's mouths when he didn't get his way and he did it to hurt and he misfired, the logic of it, and then the spontaneous declaration from the limo driver, the logic of it to me overpowers any scientific evidence.
KING: The prosecution in the O.J. case got caught in a lot of technical things with DNA, right?
LEVIN: They got sandbagged.
KING: More from the 2005 Phil Spector video obtained by "Inside Edition." And we'll ask Jim about it. This is Spector lashing out at women coming forward to speak out against him, watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHIL SPECTOR, MUSIC PRODUCER ON TRIAL FOR MURDER: I don't know why, when, how and where in what circumstance she may have taken her own life, but if she planned to or not, it is not my responsibility to do that. What I do know is I had nothing to do with her taking her own life. It's nonsense. They just want to get on "Inside Edition." They just want to testify at the trial and they just want to make money. Well, here's your chance to make money. Here's your chance to make money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Take that personally, Jim?
MORET: No, no, I don't...
KING: Do you want to get on "Inside Edition" and make money? How much money, Jim?
MORET: You know what this is Phil Spector portraying himself as the victim. The police were after me. They hit me with a taser. I'm a little guy. She was a big woman. She was 6'2"; I'm 5'5". How could I have done these things? They were coming after me with murder on their minds. Everybody wants a piece of me. This is Phil Spector the victim.
KING: This panel seems to be presuming his guilt.
MORET: No.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: I don't want to go out on a limb here but I thought we presume innocence.
MORET: Of course, we do. I'm not -- none of what we're talking about now is being heard in the courtroom. You and I are talking...
KING: But a juror could be watching.
MORET: The jury shouldn't be watched. They are monitored not to watch and I trust that they're not.
LEVIN: Who shouldn't form a judgment? We're not jurors. I mean we're allowed to look at something and say...
KING: But don't you respect the concept of innocence before guilt?
LEVIN: Absolutely.
KING: If we don't all respect that, then we all go around and think anybody the prosecution arrests is guilty.
LEVIN: But in a courtroom, you have to do it. But we're still allowed outside of the courtroom to form opinions about it.
KING: Of course, you're allowed.
LEVIN: And I have.
KING: No kidding. You have not?
KARAS: I don't give opinions. No, I don't give opinions. But when I'm analyzing the evidence, the prosecution's case, it's very powerful right now.
KING: And that's all we've seen?
KARAS: Right, exactly. So that's why it sounds that way. Wait until you hear the defense.
KING: What if the defense presents a case and what if those witnesses, those doctors, those forensic witnesses, are impressive?
KARAS: Well...
KING: What if they create a doubt?
KARAS: ...they may. And if just one juror has a problem with it, it's a hung jury.
LEVIN: They're not going to argue that she was suicidal. So suddenly, you know, she sees this opportunity to kill herself, you know, in his home. The logic of it is screwy.
KARAS: Here's what they have in their favor, though: she has a lot of blood and tissue on her which seems -- it is consistent with her hands being up close to her mouth when the gun is fired. So they're going to say she's holding it. The prosecution is going to say she's trying to get it out of her mouth. He doesn't have that much on his white jacket. He has like 18 little spots.
KING: Dominick Dunn said the other night here on this show, and he's covered a lot of trials, beautiful women don't shoot themselves in their mouth.
MORET: That's probably true. And I think that's a fair statement. Larry, you've got to do the gut test. If you have a man who has a pattern of bringing women to his home and then at some point threatening them with a gun, and then -- I talked to one of his sons, Louis, and Louis said he had seen things like this before. It was "bound to happen." Those were his words not mine. This is somebody who lived in the house, somebody who was used to this "rein of terror," as he described it, living under the same roof with Phil Spector. It was bound to happen. If you play with guns, they go off sometimes. That may very well be what happened here.
KING: Where does it go now? How long is this trial going to take?
KARAS: Well, the judge told the jury maybe the third week of July. It's going to go longer than that. It's going to go into August. But it depends on how long the defense case and there will be a rebuttal case. There's another prior-act woman I think the prosecution could be saving for rebuttal from (UNINTELLIGIBLE) all the way back home.
KING: "The New York Times," earlier this week, Harvey, had a column that described the Phil Spector trial; I want to get this right, as being "a raw, brutal port hole into the inequities and humiliating alliances of show business." Now here's this famous record producer, one of the best ever in this incredible position. He takes this girl home. He just met her. She's dead. Mansion, Beverly Hills.
LEVIN: I think it overanalyzes the reality here. Phil Spector was out looking for a woman and found one, brought her home like he's done before. And you know I don't think this has to do with show business or wealth or anything like that. It's a nut job...
KING: Could it happen in Des Moines?
LEVIN: Of course, it could happen in Des Moines. And stuff like that has happened. I mean, listen, some of the craziest killings have happened, you know, in the Heartland. So I don't think this is anything other than a whack-a-do who just ultimately had faith catch up with him.
KING: Jim, did he have a sexual relationship with her that night?
MORET: No, he says he didn't and...
KING: Wasn't there an autopsy?
MORET: I don't think that there was a sexual relation. They weren't there at the house all that long. I think that this may have been a prelude to something at least in his mind, if, in fact, she was using this gun in some sex play, as he alludes to.
KING: More about the trial that's becoming a circus when we come back. Now a clip from "Inside Edition's" exclusive interview with Phil Spector's son. Back in a minute.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm surprised it didn't happen a lot sooner, you know, with dad and his guns.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Louis Spector is Phil Spector's son. In this "Inside Edition" exclusive, he speaks about his estranged father for the first time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's two personalities in my father, there's Harvey Phil Spector, the name he was born with; and then there's a persona of Phil Spector, the man he became.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were the threatening messages, like this one, that Phil Spector left on the women's answering machines...
SPECTOR: Be very careful what you say to me because nothing you say to me is worth your life. Goodbye Dorothy. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those messages were more subdued than what I was familiar with, but, yes, they brought back a lot of memories.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Jim Moret, why -- in view of his prior responses, why were so many women willing to spend time with him? Let's go over to his house, he's got a gun.
(LAUGHTER)
MORET: I don't think they knew about the gun right away. You know when you talk to folks who know Phil Spector, they say there are two Phil Spectors. There's this charming, affable, likable guy who brings you into his world. And then on a dime it can change and you better not leave. And his son said that often they would be brought down as young kids to entertain whoever was over at the house. And on more than one occasion, a woman would say to them, "Please, help me leave." And he would say, "I'm sorry, there's nothing we can do." They were prisoners in the home themselves.
KING: He has a famous lawyer, Bruce Cutler, from New York. Is he prominent?
KARAS: Well, we expected he would be the lead attorney. He gave half of the defense opening. Linda Kennedy Boden gave the other half. And he cross-examined one of 15 witnesses so far. That's it. Or maybe 16 witnesses so far. That's it, he's been benched. We don't know why. Roger Rosen is doing most of the cross-examination.
KING: How is he doing?
KARAS: He's doing well. He's very prepared. He's very thorough.
KING: Isn't it strange to see Bruce Cutler mute?
KARAS: Yes, it is strange.
LEVIN: But there may be a reason. I mean he was doing the whole...
KING: Did you talk to him after -- you can talk to an attorney. Can't you go over to him and say...
KARAS: Yes, I do, but he doesn't -- I don't get that information out of him. He'll certainly do some direct examinations. He's still working on the case, so I don't know.
KING: Did he leave for a few days?
KARAS: He was sick for a little while. His diabetes acted up so...
KING: Do we know why Spector dropped Robert Shapiro?
LEVIN: No, we don't. I certainly don't. It's a mystery.
KING: Or Leslie?
LEVIN: I mean my gut is he's a difficult guy to deal with. I mean Robert Blake was a difficult guy. He blew through a bunch of lawyers. So I mean Robert Blake looks like the pinnacle of sanity compared to Phil Spector in my head. So I'm guessing he's a tough guy to manage.
KARAS: Yes, I had read that he felt that those lawyers didn't win anything for him, you know, they weren't winning any court rulings.
KING: How did he delay this for four years?
KARAS: Well, in part because he kept changing lawyers but also the lead deputy D.A., Del Sortino (ph) became a judge. And so that delayed it when Alan Jackson had to take over.
KING: What's the people like in the courtroom, Jim? You've been there?
MORET: Yes, I've been there a few times. Beth is in there every day.
KING: Are there any big crowds?
MORET: Not really. You know we thought this would attract a lot of interest and...
KING: Well, Phil Spector is a famous name inside the business not outside.
MORET: ... inside. And frankly, you know, his time has passed in some regard. Although what he's done is great. You can't take anything away from him as a record producer.
KING: A great record producer.
MORET: A great record producer who mad his mark in music. People who were old enough to remember the records, some of the last Beatles album, John Lennon, George Harrison, great records. But that time is not this time. And he still carries himself like a 60's record producer, very eccentric. And he rules that studio but, you know, he's not in the studio anymore.
And I don't know that -- maybe he left those attorneys because he wasn't listening to them. Maybe they couldn't deal with him.
KING: Is he still a record producer?
LEVIN: Well, I don't know that he's done anything. But you know what; he doesn't have to do anything. He is just one of the great legends in this business. Whatever else you say, I mean he was a phenomenon.
KING: Beth, who was the victim? What was she, an actress?
KARAS: Lana Clarkson was an actress. And she had taken this job at the House of Blues about six weeks before she died just because she had broken her wrist about a year earlier and she couldn't work. But she worked -- she was in TV shows, she was in movies, she was in commercials. So she had just put together a tape to do a stand-up comedy act. People who saw it said she really was talented and a lovely person.
KING: Thank you all very much. We'll stay on top of this. You're a great panel, Jim Moret, Harvey Levin and Beth Karas.
When we come back, Anna Nicole Smith's bottom line, how much was the estate really worth? We'll try to make dollars and cents of it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We are back with probate attorney Bruce Ross. He is the counsel for Howard K. Stern in connection with the estate of Anna Nicole Smith. Four months after her untimely death, Anna Nicole Smith's will has been officially filed in the state of California. A probate petition asked that the six-year-old document be admitted as Smith's last will. The petition names 8-month-old Dannielynn as Anna Nicole's surviving child with Larry Birkhead as the father. Birkhead has filed a possession to be appointed as guardian of Danielynn's estate and person.
Where do we stand now?
BRUCE ROSS, HOWARD K. STERN'S ATTORNEY: Well, you can describe it accurately. We have asked the court to admit Anna Nicole Smith's will to probate and to appoint Howard Stern, who was the named executor as executor.
The court on Monday, also at our request, appointed Mr. Stern as special administrator which is -- meaning it's a temporary appointment, but it gives him the authority to act as personal representative on behalf of the estate until he is appointed as executor.
KING: Does Mr. Birkhead have any problem with this?
ROSS: No. No, in fact, Mr. Birkhead and Mr. Stern are getting along very well. I think they share a common interest. They both have their love for Dannielynn and they both are very interested in, ultimately, her welfare. And I think they're also both interested in marshalling Ms. Smith's assets and proceeding with her wishes.
KING: Now let's go over some things.
ROSS: Sure.
KING: First, the bottom like on the character and estimated value of the property of Anna Nicole's California estate is $710,000. There you see it up there on the screen. A lot of people find that surprisingly small, explain.
ROSS: I will explain that. And I can understand why people would have that precise question and it's a good question. That represents the most preliminary of estimates about the assets that are only solely here in California. And as the petition indicates, she has, I think, as most people know, a home in Studio City. So it includes the home, which is subject to a mortgage. And it includes the roughest of estimates with respect to what personal property is still here in California.
KING: But nothing to do with anywhere else?
ROSS: That's correct. And that's the key point here because, in fact, as I think most of your viewers know, she moved with Howard to the Bahamas in the Summer 20006. And as I said the last time I appeared with you, there will be a second and ongoing probate in the Bahamas to handle all of the assets in the Bahamas. And therefore, this number should be taken with several grains of salt. It is a very preliminary estimate. The only reason even to put a number is that under California system, filing fees now are based on the estimated value of the estate.
KING: And there is nothing yet on what she will get, if anything, from her husband?
ROSS: No. In fact, that's one of the big question marks. That is clearly an asset in California and it's one of the reasons that we have appointed Mr. Stern as temporary administrator because that litigation has been on hold until we could get somebody to stand in for Ms. Smith.
KING: Another item to help us with, the California petition for probate estimates that Anna Nicole's personal property at $10,000. What's included in personal property? How did they come up with that figure?
ROSS: Well, again, as I said before, it's the most preliminary of estimates. It's based solely on what may be here. I haven't had a chance yet or my colleagues haven't had a chance to actually go to the home and see what is still there, but it's furniture, furnishings, jewelry. I think it's fair to assume that far more personal property, what we lawyers call tangible personal property, is with her in the Bahamas because that's where she moved in the summer of '06.
KING: Can you guess with me, Bruce, how long it's going to take before we know the will of the husband and before that money goes out to somebody?
ROSS: If I knew the answer to that, I could retire now.
KING: Could it be years?
ROSS: It could be. Again, Mr. Howard Marshall himself died over 10 years ago and here we are still in litigation. Obviously, we hope we can wrap it up expeditiously but I think it would be wishful thinking on my part to tell you that. KING: One other key area I want to cover with you, but before we take our final break, a sad note that I've had a number of conversations with Larry Birkhead since DNA tests proved he was Dannielynn's father. Once he's ready to talk publicly about his new life with daughter, Dannielynn, I look forward to having him right here on LARRY KING LIVE.
More about Birkhead and the baby and the future when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back with Bruce Ross, probate attorney and counsel for Howard K. Stern in connection with the estate of Anna Nicole Smith. One other area we want to inquire about, there's also the fair market value of real property. This is Anna Nicole's place in Century City...
ROSS: Studio.
KING: ...Studio City. I have the wrong item here. It's Studio City, California. The fair market value is put at $1.8 million but there's a $1.1 million mortgage. So that adds up to $700,000, right?
ROSS: Correct.
KING: That's where we got that earlier figure. And $700,000 plus the $10,000...
ROSS: Correct.
KING: I've done it.
ROSS: You have. Congratulations on the math, you're exactly right.
KING: When will the Bahamas thing be ironed out?
ROSS: Probably -- well, the probate will certainly start there soon.
And by the way, I'll just to say as a side point, again, that's a preliminary estimate in terms of the value. It will be appraised. In fact, all of Anna Nicole's assets will be appraised pursuant to procedures set out by California. We'll do all of that within the next four months.
KING: And then Howard will disperse that to Larry?
ROSS: Well, ultimately, all of this is subject to court supervision. So we will go to court. We will account for all of the assets. And we hope we are successful in marshalling and we will then account to the court for those assets and whatever disbursements have been made and ask the course to establish the trust that Anna Nicole's will establishes. As I did mention before when we talked, I'm confident that the trust -- there will be a trust established for the sole benefit of Dannielynn.
KING: Will it matter where Larry Birkhead chooses to live?
ROSS: Not in terms of the distribution of -- or the probate administration of Anna Nicole's estate, no.
KING: How do you account for the wonderful -- apparently wonderful relationship between Howard and Larry?
ROSS: Well, I think now that the one issue that has -- of paternity has been resolved, they both have bonded with Dannielynn. Howard, of course, was with her for many, many months until the end with Anna Nicole herself, the mother. They both care very much for Dannielynn. And I think they are both united in hoping that she will grow up with a normal life, as normal as can be under the circumstances. And she is the beneficiary of what may well enough -- to be an estate of many million millions of dollars.
KING: And speaking of that, on behalf of Larry and Howard and the estate, have you acquired anything of that millions of millions of dollars? Have you made inquiries to the court or lawyers?
ROSS: Well, absolutely. And when I refer -- I mean far and away the biggest claim, and it's more than a claim, it is a judgment, when the Supreme Court reversed the 9th Circuit, we have a judgment at the moment although a collection of that judgment has been stayed, that's $85 million right there. There is an earlier bankruptcy court judgment which is well over $400 million.
But in addition, of course, we are in the process of marshalling claims which will include name and likeness claims and royalties and the like.
KING: Are those claims settable?
ROSS: I think any claim is settable although it's a very high- profile case. Prior efforts of settling it have been unsuccessful, but I always hold out hope that a case can be settled without a trial.
KING: Thanks, Bruce Ross, as always.
ROSS: Thank you.
KING: Next Tuesday, former Vice President Al Gore will be our special guest. And tomorrow night's show, the stars of "Dancing with the Stars," which leads us to tonight's text question. Do you think the judges are fair on "Dancing with the Stars? Text vote from your cell phone to CNNTV, which is 26688, text KINGA for yes and KINGB for no. And we'll reveal the results on tomorrow night's show.
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