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Progress on Search for Missing Soldiers in Iraq; Debate Over Immigration Reform Heats Up

Aired May 19, 2007 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

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SANCHEZ: Word tonight that at least two of the missing U.S. soldiers are still alive in Iraq. And the top U.S. general thinks he knows who has them.

It's a hot topic - immigration. The debate so heated, it prompted Senator John McCain to drop the "f" bomb.

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SANCHEZ: Would you do it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Si.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

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SANCHEZ: Illegal immigrants tell me they would fork over $5,000 to be legal, but the man who spearheaded the immigration deal says nothing's guaranteed.

Also, table for two. Rush Limbaugh and Bill Clinton together. It's a dinner date you don't want to miss, all coming up in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And hello, again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. We're here in B control, where we're expecting a whole lot of news on this night. You know the three U.S. soldiers that are missing in action in Iraq? Well, the U.S. Army now has reason to believe two, possibly all three are alive.

Here they are. Specialist Alex Jimenez, Private First Class Joe Anzack, Private Byron Fouty, all three unaccounted for since last Saturday. You remember when we brought you that? Are all presumed to be kidnapped as well by al Qaeda or one of its fringe groups in the ambush that took place there.

It happened south of Baghdad, where five other members of their unit were killed. And there's also this. The top U.S. commander in Iraq is saying that he knows who's likely behind this kidnapping. General David Petraeus told reporters, and we quote here, "We know who that guy is. He's sort of an affiliate of al Qaeda...We've tangled with him before."

The general didn't elaborate further or name any names at this point. Expect more information on that as it develops.

Now one other important U.S. military official is also saying that he too believes that they are alive. In fact, those are his words. He says I believe that they are alive. Stop quote. The officer leading the round the clock search, by the way, in that same region that we've been telling you about called the triangle of death, he's the one who's telling CNN that he's assuming that the bad guys are following a very established pattern.

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LT. COL. MICHAEL INFANTI, U.S. ARMY: Our experience in dealing with these al Qaeda guys and the Islamic state guys is that they'll get locals. They'll pay them to be the action guys on the objective. They won't risk themselves. They'll be behind them. Sometimes up to a kilometer back.

They probably brought some of them in, got them in position, turned around. And once the execution of the attack took place, they're usually the first ones to run. They don't know how it's going to turn out. They don't want to risk themselves. They'll risk the locals for maybe a couple hundred dollars or something like that.

So they were probably behind the attack, yes, I do agree with that. As far as executing it or pulling the triggers, no. They don't have the enough guts to do that.

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SANCHEZ: All right, let's do this now. Let's get to our people. Joining us on the phone now is our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre. Jamie, thanks so much for joining us. What are you hearing at this point?

JAMIE MCINTYRE, SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, what -- this is a case where the U.S. military obviously knows more than it's saying, but may not know as much as we think they know.

Obviously, after a week of searching, there is some evidence that would point to the conclusion that at least two of these soldiers are still alive and some evidence that would suggest one of them might have died in captivity. But none of that is conclusive. And the search is going on.

What this shows though, is that as the U.S. is redoubling its efforts to try to find them, they have some reason to hope that they might actually be able to find two or maybe even all of them alive.

SANCHEZ: Were you surprised today when you heard General Petraeus essentially come out and say something as bold as this -- thinking that they may be alive?

MCINTYRE: Well, you know, again, I think it reflects what their intelligence is showing them without us knowing exactly what it is. And I also think it reflects Petraeus's feeling that he has a pretty good idea of who what he would call the bad guys are in this part of Iraq, who would be responsible for this.

Don't forget, this is the same area where last summer, three U.S. soldiers were killed, one was killed, two were kidnapped and murdered in the same general area. And you know, they have a pretty good idea of what's going on in that area, but that doesn't mean they know where these people are.

SANCHEZ: You say that there's a possibility they know more than they're letting on. With something like this, and you've covered stories like this many times in the past, are there all kinds of back channeled deals and conversations going on right now?

MCINTYRE: Well, they've gathered a lot of intelligence, everything from all the stuff they found in the field, bits of a uniform that they've analyzed. They've got a lot of tips. They have two people in custody that they believe are directly connected to the attack on Saturday.

So clearly, they're gathering all of this information. And they're not releasing that for obvious reasons. But the fact that General Petraeus would say that he believes at least two of them are alive indicates that they've got some pretty good intel. The question is, will it be enough to be able to rescue them and bring them back alive.

SANCHEZ: Intel's important in this case. And that's what we're going to be getting to next. Our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre. Thanks, Jamie, for taking time to join us on this night on this.

Let's do this. Let's go to CNN terrorism analyst now, a former military intelligence officer, Ken Robinson. He's got experience in dealing with these types of organizations. So let's start with -- let's try and delineate this. And we'll start with the military part because I know there's an intel part, there's a CIA part. But just soldiers on the ground and folks like Petraeus. What are they doing tonight? And what do you expect that they are doing, given this new information that we have?

KEN ROBINSON, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Rick, they've got a presence on the ground, what they call clear hold and build. And they interact with tribal elders. They interact with local imams. They interact with the population. And they have impact funds. They have cash that they can throw around.

And one of the things that they do is cast their net very wide and look for any type of low level source who can provide any intelligence that might give an indication of the groups that the Army spokesman was speaking of, separate from maybe the trigger pullers who were attacking.

SANCHEZ: But let's be realistic about this. The chances that these soldiers are still anywhere near that area where this happened is very remote, is it not?

ROBINSON: You never know. Sometimes they've taken -- they've taken prisoners and moved them large geographic distances. And other times, they've not.

What the Army does is they draw concentric circles around the area. And they try to estimate rates of advance. And then they correlate those with the cordon and search operations that they conducted immediately after this incident occurred. And then they'd make assumptions based on that geographically on where likely locations are where someone could hide a U.S. person.

SANCHEZ: Take us now into some of these back channel meetings that I was alluding to in my conversation with Jamie McIntyre. You think you know, it's one of these fringe al Qaeda groups. How do you contact them? And if you do eventually make some kind of contact with them, what do you say? What do you offer to get our guys back?

ROBINSON: Well, Rick, there's a large underground organization within Iraq that simply profits from kidnapping. Both Westerners, United States soldiers, and even Iraqis. And those groups do nothing but do this for profit. And they sell to sometimes the highest bidder, who may be an ideological group like al Qaeda, who is doing it for the theater, who wants to exploit the soldiers to be able to have what occurs right now -- you and me talking about it in the United States.

SANCHEZ: But every single expert that I've talked to about this is convinced that they are either in the hands of al Qaeda or an al Qaeda group of some type. Aren't you convinced of that, as well?

ROBINSON: Yes, because of the objective here of information warfare. They are using this type of holding these soldiers, which is why I feel good that they may still be alive is because that's where their value is. Their value is by holding on to them and exploiting them for the psychological impact here we have here in the U.S.

SANCHEZ: But if that's the case, do we deal with these guys? They're the most hated terrorist organization certainly from the eyes of the West anywhere in the world. Do you deal with them? Do you have an initial even conversation with them?

ROBINSON: The United States won't deal with them, but what they will do is they will deal with someone who is this is communications with them. They may offer that third person incentives after the fact to help them find where these people are.

They won't deal directly with an al Qaeda organization. And they certainly won't pay a ransom because of the slippery slope that creates. But they do reach out to imams, tribal elders, anyone who has influence in the area. Especially in al Anbar, it's the Sunni, Sunni, Sunni.

SANCHEZ: Wow. Former military intelligence officer Ken Robinson really drawing us a good picture there of how this thing is going to break down.

Bottom line is there's good news tonight. There's a possibility, and Petraeus saying it himself, that two, maybe three of these soldiers are alive tonight. We're going to stay all over the story throughout this newscast. Thanks so much.

Meanwhile, let's do this. There is waiting and then there is knowing. And tonight in Nevada, one soldier's family is trying to come to terms with the fact that their son is not coming home. He's not one of the ones that we're talking about now that may still be alive. Sergeant Anthony Schober was one of the four U.S. soldiers killed when the other three were apparently taken hostage in Iraq. His father remembers the day that his son told him that he was going to -- this is sad to listen to.

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EDWARD SCHOBER, SGT. ANTHONY SCHOBER'S FATHER: At the age of 17, he came to me and said he wanted to join the Army. He was affected by the 9/11 incident. I asked whether he was sure about this or really wanted to do it. He said yes. So I signed the papers.

When he came home from basic training and advanced training, I noticed a huge difference in him. He truly changed from a boy to a man.

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SANCHEZ: Wow. If you're a dad, even just a son, you know. Schober was on his fourth tour of duty in Iraq. His father says that he's praying for the families of the still missing soldiers.

Tonight, we're going to be hitting the new immigration reform bill hard. In fact, a large portion of our newscast is going to be dedicated to this.

But in Washington tonight, they're already hitting it hard. And that includes hard feelings and even some hard language we now hear. The debate is supposed to begin Monday. But already, some Republicans are going at it.

In a private meeting, Senator John Cornyn criticized the new deal and then criticized fellow Republican and bill co-sponsor John McCain for what he says is spending too much time running around the country running for president.

Here we go. Sources tell CNN that Cornyn said "I've been sitting in here for all of these negotiations and you just parachute in here on the last day. You're out of line."

McCain's response was shall we say to the point. He said to him, "F-you! I know more about this than anyone else in the room." No comment tonight from Cornyn. The McCain folks are telling us tonight that there was, in fact, a "heated exchange."

Coming up, the man who brokered the immigration deal is going to join me for some tough talk on his new plan.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no automatic path. So for those folks who are saying, you know, this is amnesty, there's nothing automatic here. There's nothing guaranteed.

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SANCHEZ: But so many other questions. For example, are U.S. citizens losing jobs? What does a man who's an immigrant himself have to say about this? We'll be asking. Also this.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have to protect our children from being exposed that way and being violated like that.

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SANCHEZ: Parents outraged that a pedophile has put up a website showing other perverts where to find young children.

And then teens, caught in the crossfire. Violent crime is up in American cities, and we've got the numbers to share with you.

And then Bill Clinton and Rush Limbaugh? Whoa, these two powerful men meeting face to face. Not planned and it becomes the talk of the town. We'll talk about it.

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SANCHEZ: We welcome you back to the Epic Center. This is where we bring in state-of-the-art video, coming in all night long, by the way. And we want to start right here. This is in Venezuela. And it's another rally in Venezuela, but this time it's not for Hugo Chavez.

As you know, 60 percent of the people there still tend to agree with Hugo Chavez despite the problems.

These guys are not for Hugo Chavez, though. This is a rally against him. And the reason that they're rallying is because he's trying to take down their television station. It's a TV station. It's one of the oldest in Venezuela in Caracas.

They've been critical of Hugo Chavez, but he says he's closing them down because their tele novella (ph), their soap operas are just too racy.

Let's take you from Venezuela to Michigan now. This is a young man, who's been disciplined by his school because he put his teacher in a head lock. So now his mother's going to show him some discipline herself. There you see her hugging her son, she also made him carry a sign. And the sign essentially says that he's having to pay for the consequences of what he's done. "I made a bad choice in school. And now I'm living with it." Here's his mom's explanation on why she's making him carry the sign.

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VERONICA GRIFFIN, MOTHER: He has to know when his actions are not appropriate that there could be consequences to those actions. And those consequences could can be humiliating. You know, so...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Especially if mom's there.

GRIFFIN: Right.

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SANCHEZ: From a mom in Michigan, let's take you now to a whole lot of people going where in California. You'd think it was the Super Bowl or a sporting event. Look at them. Seems like thousands of them are looking for that one perfect glimpse of what? No, not a sporting event, but a bunch of whales. That's right. The whales are still stuck off the coast of California. Now they've got a new way of trying to get them out. They're going to be banging like giant pots, making a huge noise with different folks, trying to funnel the whales out of the area. And they're even closing off all the tributaries to make sure they don't go in the wrong direction.

If you're wondering well, why don't the whales just go under the boat, that's not going to work. Well, it's not the boat that's keeping them there or the boats I should say, but actually the banging sound they think will eventually divert the whales out. We're going to be following that one for you. And we'll let you know how it goes.

In the meantime, is he a terrorist? Is he perhaps on a watch list? Why is one man constantly stopped when he tries to go through the border? We're going to tell you. Stay with us. We'll be right back. His story.

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SANCHEZ: We welcome you back. Tonight, a police commander in one of Mexico's most wealthy cities is dead. He was gunned down leaving work in Monterey. And he is not alone. I recently traveled to Mexico to file a series of reports. And I talked to a lot of police officers who told me there are certain towns they just simply won't go into.

In fact, when I asked for an escort from them to go into one of these cities, which was now a drug haven, they told me no. We won't go there. You're on your own. So I was. That's how did I my story.

Well, here's CNN's Casey Wian now with a report as well from, on the Mexican drug wars.

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CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Just 20 miles south of the Arizona border, the deadliest battle, so far, in Mexico's war against the drug cartels that control much of the country. Twenty-two people in this Sanoran (ph) town Cananea are dead after a federal troops stormed a ranch Wednesday; 15 drug cartel members, five policemen and two civilians.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We find ourselves terrorized.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Very, very bad, it's a very peaceful town. We have never seen this here.

WIAN: But it's happening is throughout Mexico. In the capital Monday, gunmen assassinated Jose Lugo (ph), a top anti-narcotics official in the attorney general's office.

RICARDO NAJERA, MEXICAN ATTY. GENERAL'S OFFICE (through translator): We're working very hard to find out what's caused this violence and we hope to have a quick response to the situation.

WIAN: The Mexican government's response has been to deploy 24,000 federal troops to battle drug traffickers nationwide. Still, violence is escalating. Kidnapping occur regularly, including this week's abduction of a Mexican television news crew.

So far this year more tan 1,000 people have been killed by drug cartels, according to Mexican media reports. And the violence is spreading to U.S. border communities. The governors of Arizona and New Mexico wrote President Bush this week demanding more Border Patrol agents.

GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D) NEW MEXICO: When there's an open border, with illegal flow of workers, it bleeds other bad people, like drug lords to take advantage of a porous border. And they're violent and they want to get their drug product in. WIAN: The drug violence is even becoming entrenched in Mexican popular culture. Videos like these on YouTube set Nacro Caredo (ph) music to images of drugs, weapons and dead bodies. A celebration of the drug trafficking culture and the drug lord now battling for control of a third of Mexico state. Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.

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SANCHEZ: And from crime south of the border to crimes north of the border. Coming up, gun violence in the United States. Teenagers getting caught in the crossfire. And parents and police wondering how to stop this deadly crime surge. Then...

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some people call it amnesty. We say it's not amnesty. We can argue about that for years.

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SANCHEZ: Is the new immigration plan good for America? You're going to be hearing from the man who actually brokered the deal, U.S. Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez. It's all ahead right here in the NEWSROOM.

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SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

The government's latest statistics on violent crime are out and they show that it's up, especially murder and especially in Philadelphia. City officials say most of their homicides are by handgun. One officer says that the criminals are sometimes better armed than the police. Listen to this mother describe how stunned she is by what happened to her son.

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EMILY RUIZ, VICTIM'S MOTHER: I thought they were like beat him up or fight with him or something or take his car, but not to kill him. He was innocent. My son was innocent.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) COMM. SEYMOUR JOHNSON, PHILADELPHIA POLICE: Eight-five percent of our homicides are by handgun. We have the most lax gun laws in the entire country, Philadelphia. And I think that our legislators have to take a very, very close look at that.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: Well now the city is putting more police officers on the streets. They've got a curfew in place and more surveillance cameras.

Now to Chicago and another crime tragedy. A funeral was held just this week for a young man named Blair Holt, 16-year-old honor student riding a city bus home from school when a gang member just opened fire on him. Holt saved a friend's life by jumping in front of her. However, he himself was shot and killed.

Now the irony of this is Holt's father is a Chicago police gang crimes officer himself. His mother works for the fire department.

This is the reaction thus far. Local pastors have joined his dad in the march to the scene of the crime. And students tired of the violence in their district walked out of school on Monday. The school administrator is fed up as well. Blair Holt was the 20th student to die in the Chicago school district this year alone.

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ARNE DUNCAN, CEO, CHICAGO PUBLIC SCHOOLS: And I have to say, and it may be a little controversial, if there are 20 people killed from the Hinsdale school system or you know, Winnetka school system, you know, would that be tolerated? And I don't know what the answer to that would be.

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SANCHEZ: Joining us now is Phillip Hampton. He is the director of community relations for the Chicago Public Schools. He's good enough to share some thoughts with us. What's going on, Mr. Hampton?

PHILLIP HAMPTON, CHICAGO PUBLIC SCHOOLS: Well, it's been very difficult for us. As you've mentioned, we've lost over 20. Our count is about 27 students. And...

SANCHEZ: But what's the deal? Why can't we get a handle on these young men and women who seem to be going in the wrong direction so early in life? I'd like to hear what your idea is of this?

HAMPTON: Well, it's a complex question with a complex answer. I mean, it's a combination of things. Institutions and community, as well as parents need to do a better job in supporting our youth.

SANCHEZ: Well, let me tell you this, because I just read in this report that they're going to hire more police officers. And you know, and I say that's nice, but so what?

HAMPTON: Right. SANCHEZ: I mean...

HAMPTON: Right.

SANCHEZ: ...hiring a police officer to stop crime is like trying to cure cancer after you already got it.

HAMPTON: Absolutely.

SANCHEZ: The problem seems to be in too many communities, including my own, by the way. I go to parks. There's no kids at the parks. There's no adults. There's no recreation instructors. You go to a school to play with your kid, it's locked. You can't get in.

HAMPTON: Right.

SANCHEZ: Aren't we looking at this buck backwards?

HAMPTON: What we need to do, all of us have a responsibility to look at what we're providing for our youth. I was on a radio program recently. And I talked about how we all have to make a commitment, even myself personally. What am I doing after work to support to be a surrogate parent to those who may not have parents?

SANCHEZ: Exactly.

HAMPTON: That's what we have to do to turn...

SANCHEZ: Well, and I know that you're doing something. In fact, you know, the attorney general has put out a list of recommendations. One of them on the list, all the way at the bottom by the way, is crime prevention...

HAMPTON: Right.

SANCHEZ: ...which somehow I never did understand. What are you doing in the city of Chicago to get to these kids before the drug bums and these guys get to them first?

HAMPTON: Well, I'm very proud of the city and our response. The city government, community-based organizations, clergy, etcetera, we are taking a serious look at what we all can do. We're looking to provide summer programs. We're trying to provide more work experience.

You know, the other thing is we simply need to have higher expectations for our youth. And that simply means to work with them, work with them in their education, spend more time with them.

SANCHEZ: Amen. I think that's a good point as well. And it's certainly a point well taken. Phillip Hampton, director of community relations for Chicago Public Schools. Thanks for coming on. We think this is an important issue.

HAMPTON: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: And you know, as a father of four, you know, I'm certainly passionate about it, well. Thanks so much for joining us, sir.

HAMPTON: Yes, sir. Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Coming up, there's a new immigration plan to make undocumented workers come out of the shadows.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll tell you, Rick, those who don't come out, and those who don't register are probably those who have a criminal background or have something that they're hiding.

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SANCHEZ: Is this amnesty as critics call it, or just a way to make sense of our immigration policy as supporters call it? It's an interesting discussion. We're going to be talking about this with the man behind the plan. Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez, he's straight ahead.

And then there's this man. He's a U.S. citizen, but he gets stopped at the border just about every single time he tries to cross. Is it coincidence or not?

Later, with all the horrible things that Rush Limbaugh has said about Bill Clinton, his wife, and his daughter on one occasion, what would he do if he ran into Bill Clinton at a restaurant? Well, it happened, folks. We've got it. You're about to find out.

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SANCHEZ: Tonight as you might expect, reaction already coming in on the new and controversial plan to reform our nation's immigration policy. We're hearing both sides tonight as Washington prepares to tackle the new immigration bill.

Here's how it breaks down, by the way. Let's try and get you caught up on this. After meeting various criteria, the estimated 12 million, that's an estimate, million illegal immigrants now in the U.S. could apply for renewable Z visas. They could eventually get on the path toward permanent residency by paying up to $5,000. That path could take up to 13 years.

But each head of household would have to return to his or her country of origin first. A guaranteed return by the way. Well, how is it being received so far? As expected, reviews are mixed. Here's Lindsey Graham, who supports it and a fellow Republican who does not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIOP) SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: From the PH.D. to the landscaper, there's a chance for you to participate in the American dream on our terms. A way that will make this country better.

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REP. BRIAN BILBRAY (R), CALIFORNIA: If you think we're going to control illegal immigration by telling the world we're going to reward it, you can't build a fence tall enough to stop illegal immigration.

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SANCHEZ: Expect as well that presidential contenders will be weighing in on this. Here's Mitt Romney stirring up his audience at a South Carolina GOP conference.

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MITT ROMNEY, FORMER GOVERNOR OF MASSACHUSETTS: There's something else we can do for our economy. And that's to make sure that we have an immigration system that works.

Look, legal immigration is good for our country. It brings vitality and energy and passion and culture. It's wonderful. But illegal immigration has got to end.

(APPLAUSE)

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SANCHEZ: Some on the left say that this new measure doesn't go far enough. And then on the right, there's this.

Conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh, telling his audience that the new deal has the potential to destroy the Republican party. His direct words. That is where I begin my conversation tonight with the man who brokered this deal, who brought both sides together. U.S. Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez.

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CARLOS GUTIERREZ, COMMERCE SECRETARY: We can sit here and talk about that the bill isn't ideal, or that some people call it amnesty. We say it's not amnesty. We can argue about that for years. But it seems to me that would be a vote for the status quo.

SANCHEZ: By getting them to sign up and sign the dotted line, and leave a fingerprint, you are essentially making everyone who's living in this country or as many as you can certainly more than now accountable for being here, right?

GUTIERREZ: That's exactly right. And we want people to come out from the shadows, sign up, register. And I'll tell you, Rick, those who don't come out, and those who don't register are probably those who have a criminal background or have something that they're hiding. And frankly, those are the people that we should be spending time looking for.

SANCHEZ: But what do you say to the people who say, you know what? You're rewarding these people who've entered the country illegally. Because in the end, if you're documenting them, it's a good thing for them.

GUTIERREZ: Well, no, we're not -- it's not a reward because we are, you know, there is a fine. There is a penalty. If they want anything but their status as a Z holder, which would be, you know, legal status to work, they're going to have to get in the back of the line. They have to learn English. If they have a criminal background, they have to leave the country. They've got certain requirements. We believe that that is suitable for the crime, if you will.

SANCHEZ: Well, here's another problem that people have been bringing up with the plan. And they suggest that by telling these people that they now have a shot at the American dream, or the American pot of gold, you're essentially inviting others in the future, maybe as soon as tomorrow to go and jump the fence and say well, I didn't get on this gravy train, but I'm going to get on the next one.

GUTIERREZ: Well, and I'll tell you what. This is very important, Rick, that you ask this question. The registration for the Z card is for people have been in the country before January 1, 2007. If someone is going to the border now, and then they're going to claim that they were here before January 1st, 2007, and they get caught, that's it. They'll never be able to enter the U.S. legally.

SANCHEZ: You have been assigned to broker this deal. You've brought people from the far left and the far right together, which some would say is a task into itself. There's another part of this, though, that maybe a lot of people haven't asked you about. And that's the fact that you're an immigrant yourself. Has this been somewhat personal for you?

GUTIERREZ: Well, you know, it's a great question, Rick. I've tried, you know, not to make it personal, but it's hard not to because I know what immigration is. I mean, I've dealt with it. I've dealt with passports and I've dealt with waiting in line. And I know what the hopes and dreams and aspirations of an immigrant are.

SANCHEZ: In your opinion, the United States needs those laborers?

GUTIERREZ: Absolutely. And I'll tell you what, Rick, they're just about every developed economy in the world will have to embrace immigration because the working age populations aren't growing fast enough.

SANCHEZ: Well, wait. I got to stop you real quick. And what would say to those who say wait a minute, they're taking jobs that U.S. citizens should have. GUTIERREZ: They are taking jobs that U.S. citizens are not doing. We have evolved as an economy. Our unemployment is below the average of the last four decades.

SANCHEZ: You've spent a lot of time on it, months and months I know from talking to some of the folks in your office. And it also shows from just this conversation how passionate you are about it. My thanks to you, Mr. Secretary.

GUTIERREZ: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Secretary of Commerce Carlos Gutierrez.

GUTIERREZ: Thank you and always good to see you, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Likewise.

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SANCHEZ: And coming up, a U.S. citizen stopped at the border again and again and again. Why?

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's 17 straight times. I mean, if I was a threat, why do they keep releasing me?

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SANCHEZ: Detained without cause. It's perplexing. Is it a security threat? We're checking in on this.

Also, outrage over an admitted pedophile's website. He's telling other perverts where to find young girls with instructions. Keep it here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Tonight, the story of a man who can't seem to be able to get across the border without being stopped. He's constantly being detained.

Here's CNN's Jeanne Meserve with this story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even though he became a U.S. citizen just last year, Abe Dabdoub says he's as American as the next guy. But this manager at a manufacturing plant, who lives and works in Ohio, has to try to prove it over and over and over again whenever he comes back home.

IBRAHIM "ABE" DABDOUB, OHIO RESIDENT: I don't know why anyone would consider me, you know, dangerous or you know, wanting to do harm to this country.

MESERVE: Dabdoub is Palestinian, born in Saudi Arabia, raised in Canada. With relatives there, he visits a couple times a month.

DABDOUB: I put some detail here if I was handcuffed, searched, fingerprinted, detained in the back room.

MESERVE: Since last August, he and his wife separately or together have returned from Canada 17 times. And he says that each of those 17 times, they have been detained.

DABDOUB: I would be OK if just to make everyone feel at ease, who I am and the way I look, I was questioned, you know, an extra few minutes, or detained once just to make sure that I was not going to do any harm to the country. But it's 17 straight times. I mean, if I was a threat, why do they keep releasing me?

MESERVE: Why stop him again and again? Dabdoub has asked, but has gotten no answers. It's become so predictable, that he sometimes calls ahead to let border officials know he's coming. They know him well enough that they even gave his two children Easter baskets, a nice gesture Dabdoub says, though the kids are Muslim.

We followed Abe Dabdoub across the Ambassador Bridge from Windsor, Ontario to Detroit where all the stops have happened. At the U.S. checkpoint, sure enough, he is taken out of his car for questioning. We meet up with him after his release.

DABDOUB: Par for the course.

MESERVE: How long?

DABDOUB: 45 minutes.

MESERVE: A second time, I go with him. He's detained again. This time for about 50 minutes. Dabdoub insists that he is not a terrorist. Anybody in your family have any ties that might raise alarm bells?

DABDOUB: None, none.

MESERVE: Any of your acquaintances have ties that might raise alarm bells?

DABDOUB: None.

MESERVE: Do you go to places that you think might raise alarm bells?

DABDOUB: Well, if you go to -- if you mean going to the Toledo Mud Hens with my kids, maybe that's an issue. I don't know.

MESERVE: The Department of Homeland Security will not talk about Abe Dabdoub, but one official says it is not a coincidence if someone is stopped every time he enters the country.

And a spokesman for the department says, "The reality is that we live in a time when there are terrorists who want to come into our country and kill us." The department will not tell Dabdoub or us if he is perceived as a threat. But if he is, and that explains his repeated detentions, just look at what happens when he and I across the border at the Detroit Windsor Tunnel less than five miles from the Ambassador Bridge, where he gets stopped each and every time.

DABDOUB: I don't think this is going to be 45 minutes. I'm expecting two to four hours.

MESERVE: But no, this time, he sails through immigration in less than a minute.

DABDOUB: I got through. I have no idea why. And don't they have the same system that they're looking at? So am I on some sort of watch list and I'm a threat on one border, but another border entry point, I'm not a threat?

SANCHEZ: Homeland Security refuses to comment on the inconsistency and the questions it raises about why one man is stopped and why he isn't.

Jeanne Meserve, CNN on the U.S.-Canadian border.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Coming up, people who prey on your children. In fact, they're using the Internet to show where kids play. And that has some parents furious.

Also, making a child's higher education dreams come true. One realtor is doing it. Stay with us. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

Parents are outraged, and frankly so were we when we heard about this story. An admitted pedophile is running a website for other pedophiles to read. On it, he rates the best places for "little girl sightings." Parental complaints forced the website to shut down once before, but now it is back up. The guy who runs the site insists that he is not breaking any laws.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK MCCLELLAN, ADMITTED PEDOPHILE: I don't think I'd ever cross the line with the site. And I didn't cross the line myself with these events.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: A group called Mothers Against Sex Predators says the law needs to catch up with technology and individuals like that.

Well, tonight in South Carolina, a teen looking for a missing state police official has found a shallow grave near a highway. This is new video, by the way, that we're just now getting in. It's a story we've been following throughout the course of the evening. They don't know yet if the body inside is in fact Constable Robert Bailey, but they're now working to try and dig it up.

Bailey was last seen Monday night, making a traffic stop. Police -- people down the road heard the gunfire. And Bailey's hat, gun and a pool of blood were later found. His police car had been set on fire. Police do say they have a suspect.

This is a new segment that we're running for you called "Heroes." Imagine if you were just starting grade school, and somebody made this promise. Graduate from high school and I'll pay for your college.

Well, in Oakland, California, a woman named Ora Lee Brown made that in fact pledge. But how she kept her promise is what makes her tonight's CNN hero.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ORA LEE BROWN: These are our kids. We should at least take them to a position in their life that they can lead their way. And they can't do it without an education. An education can get you everything you want. You can go wherever you want to go. It's the way out of the ghettos, bottom line.

CHILDREN: Good morning Mrs. Ora Brown.

YOLANDA PEEK, FORMER SCHOOL PRINCIPAL: She says give me your first graders who are really struggling and who are most needy. I want to adopt the class. And I want to follow the class until they graduate from high school. And she says that she was going to pay their college tuitions.

BROWN: How many are going to college?

At the time I was making, I think, $45,000, $46,000 a year. So I committed $10,000 to the kids. I grew up in Mississippi. I lived off of $2 a day, that's what we got, $2 a day for picking cotton. And so I really feel that I was blessed from God. And so I cannot him back, but these kids are his kids. These kids are -- some of them are poor like I was.

LAQUITA WHITE, FORMER STUDENT: When you have that mentor like Miss Brown, a very strong person, you can't go wrong because she's on you constantly every day. What are you doing. How are you doing?

BROWN: The world doubted us. I was told that lady, you cannot do it. And I would say you know what? These kids are just like any other kid. The only thing that they don't have the love and they don't have the support.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They called me yesterday and told me that I was accepted.

BROWN: You're looking at doctors and lawyers and one president of the United States. When you give a kid an education, and they get it up here, nobody or nothing can take it away.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: If you'd like to make a contribution to the Ora Lee Brown Foundation or nominate somebody for our special recognition, all the details are there at CNN.com/hero.

Clinton and Limbaugh together, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. Rush Limbaugh and Bill Clinton walk into a restaurant together. Sounds like the beginning of a joke. It's not. Here's Tom Foreman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Restaurants make for strange bedfellows. Or was that politics? Conservative talk radio host Rush Limbaugh used to make acid jokes about the Clintons. When Bill Clinton was president, Rush belittled daughter Chelsea's appearance. Later, when Rush fans wondered if Hillary could rise beyond her Senate seat, Rush said, "I'm not worried about Hillary. She puts her pants on one leg at a time like every other guy does."

Since then, the Billary industrial complex has risen to new heights. Hillary is running for president. And Rush is gushing over a casual encounter with Bill at New York's Kobe Club steakhouse, even though he acknowledged his listeners might read it as dining with the enemy.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, "THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW": What am I supposed to do, folks, when he comes to my table? Am I supposed to leave?

FOREMAN: Rush said on his show, he shook the president's hand and exchanged pleasantries. The pair didn't eat together, but Rush said they acknowledged their life long battle of the bulge.

LIMBAUGH: "You're looking great. You're tan, fit, you look very good out there."

And I reached out my hand. And Mr. President, it's a pleasure to meet you. And we shook hands and so forth. And he hung around for I guess two or three minutes, maybe five. I asked him what he had to eat. He said I had chicken, I had fish. That's what we got.

FOREMAN: Rush's rendition of the dining encounter wasn't without its digs. Alluding perhaps to Clinton's tarnished reputation over his extramarital affair, Rush recounts the following.

LIMBAUGH: At some point during conversation with the mayor, I looked to my left, and the former president was intently chatting up the woman that I was sitting with.

He had leaned down, and his elbows and arms were on the railing of the booth, and they were in intense conversation. FOREMAN: At the Kobe Club, employees say they caught the east meets west encounter, and that Clinton started the chit-chat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he was very cordial. And then he went back to his table. And then at some point later, he came back.

FOREMAN: And at the end of the night, Limbaugh returned the pleasantries.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rush Limbaugh went out -- left and went outside. And I guess the president was standing there. And so he went over to say good night to him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Tom Foreman, we thank you.

Finally tonight, immigration and finally tonight a plan. Will it finally account for who is in this country? Will it delineate between the good and the bad? After all, if you don't sign up, then what are you hiding? Well, let's say OK, some of these can stay, but that's it. No more illegal entries. That seems to be the promise at least. Right now, it's being criticized by the right and by the left. Some say it's too much. Others say it's really not enough.

This debate begins this week. And maybe that, the debate, the conversation in and of itself is a the in the right direction, because as an immigrant, and maybe more importantly as an American, I believe that's the only way that we're going to come together on this most divisive issue. Conversation, talk, debate. Meetings of minds. We'll see. And certainly we here at CNN will follow it. I'm Rick Sanchez. Good night and thanks so much for being with us.

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