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American Morning

Poisoned Spy Case; McCain Comments Causing Controversy; Path to Citizenship

Aired May 22, 2007 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Under fire. A third day of deadly fighting in Lebanon. Rooting out al Qaeda or risking a wider war?
Political pot shot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Maybe he can get out that varmint gun of his and chase those Guatemalans off his lawn.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHETRY: Why John McCain is unloading on Mitt Romney.

Plus, pass the Viagra. The little blue pill offering new promise for travelers, on this AMERICAN MORNING.

And good morning. We're so glad you're with us on this Tuesday, May 22nd. I'm Kiran Chetry.

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm John Roberts. Thanks very much for joining us.

All kinds of stories "On Our Radar" this morning.

And listen to this, breaking news out of London. British officials say they have a suspect in the poisoning death of former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko. Litvinenko was a bg critic of the Kremlin. Vladimir Putin in particular. He was poisoned in London after ingesting that radio active polonium last fall. The suspect is now in Russia. And get this, he himself is a former KGB agent. So the intrigue just deepens here.

CHETRY: Exactly. He was treated for an undisclosed condition at a center that treats people for radioactive poisoning. So a lot breaking on this story. And we're going to tell you more about who this suspect is, what charges he is facing and more about the case.

Also, if you remember from yesterday, doctors raised red flags about the diabetes drug Avandia, citing huge studies, according to one study, in both death and heart attack related to it. Well, we're going to talk to the doctor who authored that study about what you need to know if you or a loved one days medicine in general for diabetes.

ROBERTS: And we have incredible pictures and sound from one of our i-Reporters. Take a look at this. It almost looks like special effects. It's an electrical storm in Arizona. We'll play more of that for you and we'll get the extreme weather play-by-play from Chad Myers, all coming up.

CHETRY: Hopefully this time Chad won't say, that's not real lightning. Because it looks like it this time.

ROBERTS: I think we got him on that point.

We begin this morning in Lebanon with new threats to a Middle East democracy that's already under severe pressure. Today, the Lebanese army is battling Islamic militants for a third straight day. President Bush supports the action. He tells Reuters, "extremists that are trying to topping that young democracy need to be reigned in." CNN's Nic Robertson is live in Beirut.

Nic, we saw all of those dramatic pictures throughout the day yesterday. What's it looking like there today?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, there's a lull right now. There was a lull around noon yesterday. That's roughly the time here. The fighting was quite intense earlier. Gunfire being traded between the Lebanese army and the militants inside the Palestinian refugee camp.

The Lebanese forces say they are only firing when fired at. They're firing carefully so as not to wound civilians. A Palestinian spokesman inside the camp said that there are many wounded civilians, 100 wounded civilians, 20 civilians killed. That is unconfirmed. The Lebanese Red Cross, however, do say that they have removed -- been able to evacuate about 17 wounded civilians from the camp this morning.

John.

ROBERTS: Nic, there are so many different groups in Lebanon. What is this particular group and why is the Lebanese army after them?

ROBERTSON: Fatah al-Islam. They raided a bank allegedly on Saturday. Internal security forces went to arrest them. They got into a gun fight. The Fatah al-Islam, the name of this group, appeared to be ready and waiting. They were well armed. The Lebanese army were brought in.

A number of those, quite a high number, were killed in shooting on Saturday. The group is based in a Palestinian camp. The Lebanese army has now surrounded that camp. Members of the government here, a pro-western government, say that Fatah al-Islam is backed by Syria.

John.

ROBERTS: Do they actually have connections to al Qaeda or is it just a loose affiliation?

ROBERTSON: It appears to be a loose affiliation. In the sort of al Qaeda world, you have a buyout, a pledge of allegiance to Osama bin Laden. Often that's on the Internet.

We haven't seen that with this particular group. Their tactics, their methodology, their ideology seems to be closely allied with al Qaeda. That's been the assessment of people that have talked to them and that's been the assessment of their statements so far.

They have said in their recent statements that they will continue to fight. They've also claimed, according to Reuters new agency, claimed responsibility for those bombs in Beirut the last couple of nights and that they will continue those bombings that are worrying people here seriously.

John.

ROBERTS: Nic, thanks very much for that update. I know that you're headed right now to Tripoli. So we'll hear from you a little bit later on today. Appreciate it.

CHETRY: We have some breaking news out of London this morning. British officials saying within the hour that they now have enough evidence to charge an ex-KGB agent with murder. They want to extradite him to London to face charges in the death of former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko. Litvinenko died last year in London after he was poisoned with radioactive polonium.

Lugovoi was a KGB officer from the late 1980s and he worked in a department that protected senior Soviet officials. According to wire reports, he actually met with Litvinenko at the Millennium Hotel on November 1st. That was the day that he complained of feeling ill and was later admitted to the hospital.

Litvinenko, a huge critic of the Kremlin and the incident has raised diplomatic tensions now between Moscow and London. They want to extradite this suspect. The countries do not have, though, an extradition treaty. We'll continue to follow the breaking developments in this story throughout the show.

Also, with U.S./Iranian talks just a week away, Iran now charging an Iranian-American with plotting to overthrow the government. Haleh Esfandiari is the director of the Middle East studies program based in Washington. She's been held in Iran for the last two weeks, arrested while visiting her mother. Her studies program denies she was in Iran to undermine the Iranian government.

ROBERTS: Senator John McCain may be a man of his word, but the words coming out of his mouth have been known to get him in some political hot water. Here's the latest incident. McCain criticized Republican presidential rival Mitt Romney yesterday for flip flopping on immigration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In the case of Governor Romney, you know, maybe I should wait a couple of weeks and see if it changes because it's changed in less than a year from his position before. And maybe his solution will be to get out his small- varmint gun and drive those Guatemalans off his lawn.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: And with one dig, McCain managed to encompass both Romney's backtrack on an April comment that he had been a hunter pretty much "all my life." He later said that he had shot varmints, such as rabbits, as a child and once went quail hunting in Georgia. It also took in the 2006 report in "The Boston Globe" that a landscaping firm that Romney hired to maintain his home for years had hired illegal immigrants. That incident followed a flare-up of the famous McCain temper over immigration. He got into a shouting match last week with Texas Senator John Cornyn behind closed doors. Cornyn said to have blasted McCain for missing immigration negotiations while campaigning. McCain reportedly dropped the "f" bomb in response. Cornyn says McCain later apologized for that outburst.

CHETRY: And as you put it yesterday, he also said something that seemed like it came out of the back side of a chicken. We can't really elaborate. This is national TV.

Also, remember when McCain was asked what he would do about Iran's nuclear program and then he jokingly said the parity of the Beach Boys hit, "Barbara Ann," as in bomb Iran? Well, after that little ditty they headlined last month, McCain fired back. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCCAIN: Sensitive to what, the Iranians? My response is, lighten up and get a life. I will continue to joke with my veteran friends at the VFW posts around America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHETRY: And then there was, of course, McCain's heated exchange with Jon Stewart, although it wasn't that heated. When I saw it -- I mean, I think that they just had a spirited discussion. But here's a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: I hear from them all the time.

JON STEWART, "THE DAILY SHOW" HOST: The majority of guys that I talk to say the political scene is not my scene. I'm a soldier.

MCCAIN: I talk to them. And I talk to them all the time, my friend, and I hear from them all the time. They know I know what war is like.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHETRY: Well, he's talking about some of the soldiers' reactions to the war in Iraq. Coming up a little bit later this hour, we're going to talk about McCain's comments and what they mean for his White House ambitions with Republican strategist Ed Rollins. It certainly makes it more interesting, though, when you're covering the campaign trail.

ROBERTS: It does. Ed is a little concerned about John McCain's future if he keeps throwing off at the mouth like that.

Bowing to pressure from law enforcement, MySpace has agreed to give state authorities the names and addresses of registered sex offenders who had used the popular social networking Web site. In a statement, the firm said, "we have zero tolerance for sexual predators on MySpace. We will also continue to promote legislation requiring sex offenders to register their e-mail addresses so they can be kept off social networking sites in the first place."

CHETRY: Yes, they found 7,000 convicted sex offenders, booted them off the site so far. They're doing even more.

Gas prices hit another record high. We're checking the CNN gas gauge this morning. $3.21, the new national average according to AAA. Went up two cents from yesterday. And that was the old record that was set just yesterday. It was a month ago that gas averaged $2.86. A year ago it was $2.89.

And this gas, though, is selling for $2.59. It's 85 percent ethanol and it's now for sale in Albany at New York's first E-85 station, as they're calling it. A lot of new vehicles can run on either, E-85 or regular gas. So far, though, very few stations around the country are offering it.

ROBERTS: It really seem like a bargain, doesn't it?

A little more relief in sight for commuters in the San Francisco area. The second part of that freeway that was damaged by a massive tanker truck fire last month is set to reopen on Friday. Contractors finished the job more than a month early. They are going to be rewarded handsomely for their efforts, earning a $5 million bonus.

And they played whale songs, chased them with boats, banged on pipes, but two humpback whales in California are still swimming to their own beat. At last check, they're lingering near Rio Vista, some 50 miles from the open waters where they're supposed to be. CNN's Dan Simon is following their story from Marin County, California, and joins us now live.

Dan, what's the latest trick? What are they going to try to do today to get them back into San Francisco Bay?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, John.

Scientists are hoping that unpleasant sound of banging on pipes will convince these whales to go in the right direction. Essentially, these whales have stalled. They had made good progress, but now they've stalled. As you've said, they've got no further than the town of Rio Vista, which is still about 50 miles away.

There's a bridge there and scientists theorize that bridge traffic may have caused the problem. They thought the whales may have been afraid of the traffic. So at one point they actually stalled the traffic on the bridge. But that didn't work. Even the flotilla of boats at times has proved pointless, as the whales would just go underneath the boats in the wrong direction. So crews are hoping that the banging on the pipes today will do the trick.

But they were successful in one regard. They were able to get a tissue sample from the mother whale. They've actually fired a crossbow at the mother and were able to get a tissue sample and they're going to analyze that sample to get a better picture of her health.

John.

ROBERTS: Right. And how long do they think it will be before they get an idea of what kind of shape the mother's in?

SIMON: Not exactly clear on that. That's going to be sent to the lab. It could take a few days. Another thing that's going to happened today, they're going to try to attach a navigational unit or a satellite unit on the mother whale and they're also going to use a crossbow to try to attach it to her dorsal fin. So that could be a bit challenging. And look for that today.

ROBERTS: Maybe they should, while they're attaching things, maybe they should just put a leash around her.

Dan Simon, thanks so much.

CHETRY: Right. You wonder why they're stressed. They're getting hit with crossbows right and left as they try to get back to the ocean.

Well, when it comes to getting around town on prom night, we usually think of stretch limousines. But not so for some Franklin County, Virginia, couples. The decided they were headed to prom on a tractor. Fancy dresses and all.

ROBERTS: There you go.

CHETRY: Check it out. The couples said they just wanted to do something different. Now the other thing is, where would they park once they get there? I guess right in the lot?

ROBERTS: Absolutely. Yes. A tractor pretty much fits in a regular parking spot.

CHETRY: There you go. How handsome.

Also, a sticky situation at Piper High School in Sunrise, Florida. Fifty school doors were glued shut when teachers showed up to work on Monday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KYRA LEWIS, STUDENT: We might not be able to take our exams because the exams were locked inside a classroom. We have like three more days and then they go pull this stunt right here. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CHETRY: Well, it took school officials about a few hours to unstick the locks so the 2,600 students could go to class. Incidentally, that was our senior prank, as well, at Montgomery Blair High School. However, it just didn't work. We tried to glue a door shut. Didn't work.

ROBERTS: Well, back when you were young, they didn't have things like super glue, did they?

Take a look at this.

CHETRY: You know that Elmer's, it just never quite worked.

ROBERTS: Yes, right. It doesn't. That white glue.

Take a look at this. Stunning pictures of an electrical storm caught on tape. We'll have more on that in just a minute with Chad Myers.

You're watching AMERICAN MORNING. The most news in the morning is on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Fourteen minutes after the hour. Welcome back to the most news in the morning.

Here's a place that you never want to find yourself in. In a boat dangling on the edge of a dam. Hanging on by a thread there.

CHETRY: That looks like a movie.

ROBERTS: Doesn't it though.

This 30-foot house boat had been on a leisurely booze cruise on the Kentucky River when it got swept up in the current. Firefighters say the driver frantically tried to reverse out of it but the water was moving too fast, overwhelmed the motor and that's where they found themselves. Four people were rescued. The boat stopped from falling to the rocks below. Some boats, though, have gone over in the past.

And amazing pictures. Take a look at this, of an electrical storm sent in to us by an i-Reporter in Arizona. Ralph Score of Sunsites, Arizona, which is just a little ways southeast of Tucson, took this video last Wednesday after making sure that he took his dogs inside, of course, and the little kids weren't running around. Take a look at that. Now Chad Myers is here.

And, Chad, the last time we showed lightning, you challenged us. You said, it wasn't quite lightening. What about that? Do we make the grade this time?

(WEATHER REPORT) CHETRY: A closer look now at a drug used to treat diabetes in more than a million Americans. It's called Avandia. And a new study suggests that people taking Avandia have a 43 percent higher chance of having a heart attack and a 64 percent increased chance of dying from a heart attack or heart disease. Steven Nissen is the doctor who first raised questions about Vioxx and its heart risks. He is now taking on Avandia, as well. His study is in "The New England Journal of Medicine." But it's not without its critics.

Doctor Nissen, good morning. Thanks for being with us.

DR. STEVEN NISSEN, CLEVELAND CLINIC: Good morning.

CHETRY: First of all, give us your key findings behind those statistics. Alarming, a 64 percent increase in death, in heart related deaths, for those taking this drug.

NISSEN: Well, first of all, it's important to understand that we worked from publicly available documents. We didn't actually have access to the original source data. And that's why, you know, not everybody is going to jump to the same conclusions.

Nonetheless, we're very confident of our findings. We analyzed 42 clinical trials that have gone on for many years and we found a 43 percent increased risk of heart attack and a 64 percent increase in deaths from cardiovascular causes. Those are very striking increases. We do not think this is by chance alone. And we're very concerned about the drug, as I think many people in the medical community have been concerned.

CHETRY: Doctor, it's interesting that you say chance, because the drug maker, GlaxoSmithKline, is says there is a possibility that your findings were due to chance, even calling them "fragile." Saying that Avandia's benefits continue to outweigh the risks for people with diabetes. What's your response?

NISSEN: Would you expect them to say anything else?

CHETRY: Well, they stand by their drug. And, at this point, the FDA is, while saying there are some concerns and not prepared to pull this drug from the market.

NISSEN: Well, I understand. We think as all the events transpire in the next few weeks, a lot more is going to come out at some congressional hearings in a few weeks. I think we're going to learn the whole story here. And when you hear the whole story and you see all of the data, I think it's pretty clear that there is a serious problem with the drug.

What the FDA should do, that's, obviously, ultimately their choice. We offered our findings. We are obviously not involved financially. We're objective. We're independent. We have no vested interest one way or the other. But we do want to do, however, is if this drug is risky, we've got to act now to protect patients.

CHETRY: Yes, I mean, it's a tough call. You have 200,000 people a year dying from diabetes and the average diabetic has, I think, a 20 percent increased risk of heart attack even without taking a drug. So how do you distinguish the existing conditions and whether or not they're at greater risk for not taking it?

NISSEN: Well, there are many alternative drugs. You know, most of the drugs we use to treat diabetes have been approved because they lower blood sugar. The reason we lower blood sugar is to prevent the complications of diabetes. The problem is Avandia is it's lowering blood sugar, but it's very clearly increasing cardiovascular complications of diabetes.

CHETRY: Bottom line, if you have a loved one that takes this with diabetes, that's taking Avandia, what would your recommendation right now be?

NISSEN: Please talk to your doctor. Don't do -- don't make any decision based upon what you hear in news reports. This is a decision to be made with your physician in consultation.

CHETRY: Dr. Steven Nissen, thank you four your input today.

ROBERTS: Twenty minutes now after the hour.

A new use for Viagra? Travelers are going to want to stick around to hear about this, coming up next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: If you have ever flown overseas, you know just how debilitating jet lag can be. Well, believe it or not, the ticket for weary travelers just may be Viagra. Researchers in Argentina simulated jet lag in hamsters. Don't ask us how they did that. Then found that Viagra helped the adult males . . .

CHETRY: They flew them all around the world.

ROBERTS: Then found that Viagra helped the adult males recover up to 50 percent faster. The study suggests that Viagra could help humans cope with jet lag. But you notice it only helped the male hamsters recover faster.

CHETRY: Well, I think that's the only . . .

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I don't want to know anything about this test.

CHETRY: There are a lot of off-label uses for Viagra.

VELSHI: This is one of them.

CHETRY: In fact, I have a friend who uses it to keep the plants perky.

VELSHI: I use that line all the time.

CHETRY: They put a half a tablet . . . ROBERTS: Excuse me?

CHETRY: I swear. And it keeps the plants from flower -- cut flowers from wilting. I'm serious.

ROBERTS: You know, maybe it's just a case of, if the plant thinks it works (INAUDIBLE).

VELSHI: Sure, it keeps the plant from wilting.

ROBERTS: I don't know about that.

CHETRY: Ali Velshi, good to see you this morning.

VELSHI: Yes, saved by Ali. Morning on. But we'll stay on the topic of drugs.

I just heard this conversation you were having with Dr. Nissen about Avandia. The GlaxoSmithKline drug. Now just to remind you of the numbers. This study by Dr. Nissen from the Cleveland Clinic, which is one of the top rated clinics in the world, particularly the cardiovascular area that he works in, has said that the risk of taking Avandia, it increases your risk of heart attack by 43 percent and your risk of heart death by 64 percent.

Now as you discussed with him, this is a study of studies. They didn't use source materials. That's not to say that there's not something to this. GlaxoSmithKline really depends on Avandia. This is their second biggest selling drug in the world. Almost 20 million Americans have type two diabetes. Had $3 billion in worldwide sales last year.

There are 7 million patients worldwide on this drug and 1 million Americans on it. They've written 60 million prescriptions for this drug. So this is a very, very big deal.

Glaxo has about 37 percent of the U.S. market for an oral drug for type two diabetes. Merck has the other drug, which is a new drug. Also has a big part of the market. As you said, GlaxoSmithKline says they it stands by the safety of Avandia when used appropriately.

The question here, of course, particularly with Dr. Nissen, because he's been through this one before, is how much did Glaxo know about this? Did the company know about the risks to this drug? And what did they do about this?

Because that harkens back to Merck, of course. Sometimes a drug company -- look, here's the thing. Sometimes these drugs, they solve problems that are such a big deal that we understand that they might have risks associated with them. The issue is companies have to say this. So this is where the question is going to go and Dr. Nissen was alluding to that, that there will be more discussion about it.

CHETRY: Stock price take a hit?

VELSHI: Stock price took a big hit. It took a hit in London, then in New York and continues to do so. About 7 percent lower.

ROBERTS: But as we saw with Merck, though, it took a hit and then it recovered as well.

VELSHI: Yes. And Merck, actually, by the way, is up on this news because it has the other type two diabetes drug. But the story's far from over. We'll keep on it.

ROBERTS: Yes. As we found out before, though, you have one class of drugs, you know, has problems and your different pharmaceutical companies.

VELSHI: That's right. The drug that Merck makes for type two diabetes is actually a newer class of drug. So there's not that sense like there was with Vioxx, that everybody gets hit by this one. There might be people going to their doctors and they're saying, switch me over to the Merck drug.

ROBERTS: Ali, thanks very much.

CHETRY: What's it called, just out of curiosity?

VELSHI: Januvia.

CHETRY: Januvia. OK.

Thanks, Ali.

ROBERTS: Twenty-seven minutes after the hour.

A skyline shot to show you now from our home office in Atlanta. That smoke apparently from the big wildfire that's still burning in southern Georgia, clouding up the city skies this morning.

Also, John McCain shooting from the lip yet again. What's it going to mean for his campaign?

And meet some people affected most by the new immigration bill. How exactly might illegal immigrants follow a path to citizenship.

You're watching AMERICAN MORNING. The most news in the morning is on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Wow. Looking up river, up the Hudson River, at the George Washington Bridge there, early morning here in New York. Dawning what looks to be a beautiful, beautiful day. You can bet, though, that in about 20 minutes, that bridge is just going to be jammed with traffic.

CHETRY: And you can bet that there's no whales in that river, either.

ROBERTS: I used to commute across that bridge when I lived in New Jersey years ago, and that was just the worst part of the commute, was the lineup to get across that bridge.

Good morning to you.

CHETRY: Motorcycles actually go in between the lanes. They don't even waste time.

ROBERTS: Yes. I don't think you're allowed to do that in New York. You can do that in California. There's a lane-splitting law. But I don't think it applies to New York.

Good morning to you, Tuesday, May the 22nd.

I'm John Roberts.

CHETRY: And I'm Kiran Chetry.

Glad you're with us on this -- what is it -- Tuesday morning.

You just said it. Sorry. Shaking off the cobwebs here.

We begin with a developing story out of London this morning. British officials announcing that they are prepared to charge an ex- KGB agent, Andrei Lugovoi, with murder for the poisoning of a former spy and a vocal critic of the Kremlin. Of course that's Alexander Litvinenko.

CNN's Matthew Chance is following this story from Moscow. He joins us live this morning.

Hi, Matthew.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kiran.

That's right. These charges coming against a Russian citizen called Andrei Lugovoi, who the Russian prosecution authorities say they have enough evidence to charge for the murder of Alexander Litvinenko, the former KGB agent who defected to Britain in 2000 and was a vocal critic of Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, and the Kremlin, which he oversees.

What they're looking for now though is some kind of extradition from Russia to Britain, because Andrei Lugovoi is currently living in the Russian capital, Moscow. And that's something the Russian authorities have said they're not prepared to do under no circumstances, they say, will a Russian citizen be extradited. And that is likely to put further strains on an already tense relationship between Russia and the United Kingdom -- Kiran.

CHETRY: It also adds to the intrigue. I mean, this Lugovoi, an ex-KGB agent, specifically fingered by Litvinenko, was the KGB in Putin's government. Is there any talk of what a motive might have been?

CHANCE: No. And I think that's one of the big mysteries that will continue to hang over this very mysterious poisoning that left dozens of people, remember, contaminated with that radioactive isotope, Polonium 210.

Even if Andrei Lugovoi is found to be the actual poisoner, we may never find out who actually ordered him to carry out the killing of Alexander Litvinenko. A lot of fingers around the world, though, pointing towards the Kremlin as an attempt to silence one of their most vocal Kremlin critics.

CHETRY: And there's also some reports this morning that this guy, Lugovoi, was treated for an undisclosed illness at a place that treats people who have radioactive poisoning in Moscow.

CHANCE: That's right. I mean, soon after he came back from London, after Alexander Litvinenko fell ill and later died last November of Polonium poisoning, Andrei Lugovoi also was admitted to a clinic here in the Russian capital to undergo treatment, what was believed to be radiation poisoning. But I think that tallies with the forensic evidence that British police say they have against Andrei Lugovoi.

They've been following for the past several months, remember, a radioactive trail that had roughly traced the movements of Andrei Lugovoi, and so they say they have very strong forensic evidence connecting this man with the killing of Alexander Litvinenko. Clearly, along the way, before he poisoned Alexander Litvinenko, he, in some way, contaminated himself with this radioactive material -- Kiran.

CHETRY: Fascinating. And we'll get more details from you throughout the morning.

Matthew Chance in Moscow.

Thank you.

ROBERTS: Thirty-four minutes now after the hour.

John McCain's mouth is getting him in trouble again. Yesterday we told you that he dropped the "F" bomb at another senator over immigration last week. Then on Monday he took on Republican rival Mitt Romney.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As I mentioned, maybe he can get out that varmint gun of his and chase those Guatemalans off his lawn.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: What McCain was talking about there is he was digging at Romney for saying that he used to hunt. Well, no, I didn't hunt, I chased varmints every once in a while. And then there was a story in a Boston newspaper that Romney's lawn was being tended to by a company that employed illegal immigrants. Multiple layers to that insight -- that insult, rather. Questions now, though, about McCain's choice of words, his temper and his temperament, and how they all might affect his race for the White House.

Ed Rollins is a Republican strategist, joins us this morning.

Ed, is McCain's mouth his worst enemy?

ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, the problem that John has is people have always known he has a bad temper. And he's worked very hard to not show that he has a bad temper. These kinds of incidents basically are very unbecoming to the ordinary voter, and they expect senators to get along, not basically swear at each other on the floor.

ROBERTS: In fact, following his defeat in the 2000 primary campaign, John McCain acknowledged that he has a little bit of an anger problem when he was appearing on the Larry King show.

Here is a quick look at what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: My anger did not help my campaign. It didn't help. People don't like angry candidates very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: So, McCain had been out there on the Straight Talk Express during that whole primary campaign. When it came to South Carolina, though, and all the scrutiny started coming down on him, and the Bush campaign started hitting him on some of these issues, McCain suddenly turned sour. Is that when he lost it?

ROLLINS: Well, he lost it certainly there. He thought they had treated him unfairly. And the reality is, people expect these people to get along well. And you differ on the issues, but they certainly want you to have a good, calm demeanor. And I think what McCain is proving to people is that he may not be suited to be president of the United States.

ROBERTS: I mean, he's got an acerbic wit, no question, which I think he was demonstrating there with the Romney thing.

ROLLINS: The bottom line is, I've known John for a long time, and I admire him greatly. But the critical thing is, people who don't know him watch him and they don't know whether he has the right temperament to be president of the United States.

The problem today is, every time he makes a mistake in the course of this campaign, this clip and other clips will all be repeated. And pretty soon it's a cumulative effect. And there's a whole reel there of a guy who doesn't have control.

ROBERTS: So, what shape is his campaign in? ROLLINS: It's terrible. He is -- he has gone through a lot of disarray, he's had difficulty raising money. You know, this is a man who thought he was the inevitable nominee. And he's now going to fight like crazy to win this thing, and he's got two very serious opponents at this point in time, Romney and Giuliani.

ROBERTS: Is it over for him?

ROLLINS: No, it's not over for any of them at this point in time, but you can't have mistakes or bad days like this and keep moving forward.

ROBERTS: All right. So, you're a Republican strategist. What advice would you give him to resurrect this campaign?

ROLLINS: Basically, keep your mouth shut, be very...

ROBERTS: That's difficult to do in a campaign, Ed.

ROLLINS: Every single day, be conscious of that, that you can't lose your cool. And it just reinforces those worst instincts that people think you might have.

ROBERTS: Again, as we saw in 2000, though, when the pressure gets on, he tends to get his back up a little bit.

ROLLINS: Well, people don't want to -- you know, he's 70 years old. People don't want a cantankerous old man to be president. I mean, they want someone who basically is stable.

And when you basically call another fellow senator an obscenity on the floor, it shows some instability. And I think even more important, he's out front on this immigration issue, and I think this is going to hurt him worse than anything else.

ROBERTS: Does that apply to the vice president, as well?

ROLLINS: Well, certainly -- well, the vice president is not running again.

ROBERTS: Yes. All right.

Ed Rollins, thanks very much for joining us.

ROLLINS: My pleasure. Thank you.

ROBERTS: Of course, I was just alluding to the fact that Dick Cheney dropped the "F" bomb on Pat Leahy on the floor of the Senate not too long ago -- Kiran.

CHETRY: That's right. But if you're a vice president, I guess you can drop the "F" bomb. Not if you're running to be president.

Thanks, guys.

(NEWSBREAK) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: There we go. A nice shot of New York City this morning. You can see the Empire State Building and a lot of new construction going on around there.

At 42 past the hour now, a fierce fight expected today in the Senate during debate on the new immigration bill. A final vote has been pushed back until next month, after the long Memorial Day recess.

Republicans are working on amendments. They want to scale back the legalization program and also make English the national language. Democrats looking to change or eliminate the proposed guest worker program.

So, a centerpiece of that bill gives the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants a so-called path to citizenship. Critics calling it amnesty.

So, what is it, and how hard will it be to actually follow?

AMERICAN MORNING'S Alina Cho joins us with that part of the story this morning.

Good to see you, Alina. You were doing some reading last night, I take it?

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A little bit of light reading, yes.

You know, here is a copy of the bill.

CHETRY: This is it.

CHO: That's it.

CHETRY: How many pages?

CHO: More than 300 pages long, and it's heavy, as you can see. Right? So you can imagine how some immigrants and everyone really might be confused by it.

CHETRY: And how many senators actually are going to read this entire thing?

CHO: Well, that remains to be seen. Right?

So, but one thing some illegal immigrants know for sure, Kiran, is if this bill passes, some people who are here illegally will have to touch back or return to their home countries in order to come back legally. Those we spoke to say that will tear families apart, and they are vowing not to comply.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHO (voice over): Juan is in the U.S. illegally, but like many immigrants, he has an American dream. He rides his bike to work every day. He's a cashier at a wine store in New York City.

JUAN, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT: Thank you very much.

CHO: And makes $400 a week, barely enough to take care of his long-time partner, Rena (ph), and their two children. If Congress passes comprehensive immigration reform, Juan would eventually have to return to Mexico and leave his family behind without knowing when he could return.

JUAN: It breaks my heart. If I've got to go back to Mexico, who is going to take care of my family?

CHO: If passed, the bill would give millions of illegal immigrants a path to citizenship.

Step one, illegal immigrants already here would have to apply for a Z visa. That would allow people like Juan to travel, work and pay taxes.

Step two, sometime within eight years, heads of households would have to go back to their home country, something called the touchback provision. They are guaranteed the right to return, but it's unclear how long it would take.

Step three, each illegal immigrant would have to pay a $5,000 fine.

Finally, step four, immigrants could then and only then apply for citizenship. But they automatically start the process behind those who started it legally.

CHUNG-WHA HONG, NEW YORK IMMIGRATION COALITION: What's the point of making it so complicated if we all agree that we need to do it? Let's make it real, let's make it efficient, and workable so that people actually sign up for it.

CHO: Juan calls the bill a trick and says he won't go back to Mexico because he's worried the U.S. government won't let him back in. His goal is to open a Taekwondo studio and fight for a better life for his family in the place he calls home, the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHO: Now, Juan's partner, Rena (ph), says if Juan is forced to go back to Mexico, she and their two kids will go with them. After all, she doesn't work and has no way of paying the bills.

Now, as for that $5,000 fine, which is actually $10,000 for this family, $5,000 each for Juan and Rena (ph), both of them say if they have trouble paying the rent, how are they going to pay the fine? Rena (ph) says she would rather save that money and stay in Mexico.

And Kiran, clearly, that is not a perfect solution, but that is what this one family would do.

CHETRY: Is there a feeling of the part of some of the illegals that you spoke to that this is, as you said, a trick, or as they said, a trick, meaning that they're hoping people will think, it's just too much trouble, let me just go back?

CHO: Oh, absolutely, they think it's a trick. At least the people we spoke to.

You know, and immigration -- this immigration coalition we spoke to in New York, basically the spokesperson said, listen, a lot of people are skeptical, they're scared. They think there's going to be a lot of bureaucratic red tape if they go back, and they don't believe that the U.S. government will let them back.

Now, Senator Kennedy's office said they are guaranteed the right to return, but they would not tell us exactly how long it would take for them to get back.

CHETRY: All right. Difficult, and debate on all sides. A lot of people have problems with various parts of this, so I guess we all better get reading.

CHO: That's right.

CHETRY: Three hundred-plus pages.

Alina Cho, thank you.

CHO: My pleasure.

ROBERTS: That is a big, fat bill.

CHO: It is.

ROBERTS: My goodness.

Chad Myers is up here in New York actually this week, not down at the CNN weather center. He brought the weather center with him. Have weather center, will travel.

(WEATHER REPORT)

ROBERTS: Coming up, those wayward whales, they didn't respond to the siren song of other whales. Will they hearken to the sound of the pipes? The latest strategy to get the humpbacks back home, next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: About four minutes now before the top of the hour. Ali Velshi "Minding Your Business". And we're talking about how much this path to citizenship would actually cost.

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. CHETRY: We tried to take a look at these numbers. And if we can't figure it out, how can someone who is trying...

VELSHI: Well, and that's the important part, because...

CHETRY: ... to stay in the country figure it out?

VELSHI: ... the issue here is, it does have to work for the people who it applies to, because some people might say, why do I care what the illegals are paying? You care, because if they can't figure out how much it's going to cost them, they may simply make the decision not to turn themselves in.

Here's what we know. We know the cost per person is going to be $5,000.

CHETRY: The fine?

VELSHI: The fine, as it were, and the head of household is going to have to go back. And as Alina described, have a touchback in their country and then apply for their re-entry.

The government says it's a guaranteed re-entry. As Alina was saying, it's unclear whether they believe it's going to be guaranteed. But what is more unclear is how long this visa is going to take to be processed that allows them back into the country.

Now, that's an important consideration, because if you're earning $400 a week, like the gentleman that Alina portrayed, you're going to have to make some decisions about how long you can afford to be out for. Is this going to be a week-long process, or is it going to be an 18-month process?

We cannot get information on that, because if this law goes through, that then goes into the Department of Homeland Security, and it becomes an issue of processing visas. As we know, that's on no level a simple process, even if you were never an illegal immigrant.

So the question remains that, until people can sit there and get information from us or from the government about exactly how much this is going to cost -- we know the fine, but how long are you going to have to be out of the country for and not be working for? People will make an economic decision. It's like everything else that we face. If we don't know, the decision may not be to turn yourself in and carry on.

CHETRY: Yes. So, a lot of gray areas...

VELSHI: Yes.

CHETRY: ... in terms of figuring out how you even come up with a total.

VELSHI: How you come up with a total. And that is going to have to be something that's done before people start making their decisions. They may risk being arrested and thrown out of the country, but they've already risked that.

ROBERTS: One critic of this bill, Republican congressman Tom Tancredo, says people aren't going to do any of this. And he's going to be joining us a little bit later on. So we'll ask him.

VELSHI: Yes, and that's a good question. They have to have an incentive to do something -- to do it. So, we'll see.

CHETRY: You know, and we're talking about all sides of this. Also coming up a little later, Robert Hoffman. He's the vice president of Oracle. He's going to talk about whether or not it makes sense for big business, and you can weigh in a little later on that as well, Ali.

VELSHI: Absolutely.

CHETRY: What are the costs and challenges of that, as well? Thank you.

VELSHI: OK.

CHETRY: Meantime, some "Quick Hits" now.

(NEWSBREAK)

ROBERTS: The next hour of AMERICAN MORNING starts right now.

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