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Nancy Grace
Mom Stands by Husband Who Put Baby in Microwave
Aired May 24, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: EMTs race a Texas newborn baby girl to a local hospital, burns so severe, she needs multiple skin grafts. Why? Her father, a would-be minister, becomes agitated when the baby cries, throwing her first onto the bed, placing her second in the hotel refrigerator, third in the hotel room safe, then ultimately into the microwave and turns it on. And tonight, instead of protecting the baby girl, the mom defends her husband claiming the devil is responsible. She wants him free tonight. And they both want the baby back. I say no way!
And tonight, in Chicago, police and FBI on high alert. Three masked gunmen storm into a Chicago bank, open fire, a 23-year-old bank teller dead, two others hospitalized, getaway car a stolen maroon Chevy Olds. New and crystal-clear surveillance video emerges of the gunmen, all three still at large and tonight believed to be connected to another violent bank robbery. Who are they? And how can police and FBI stop them?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: FBI investigators comb for evidence amid shattered glass from bullet holes, more holes in the walls, signs of the gun battle that killed a teller and critically injured a 48-year-old guard and a 73- year-old bank customer. Police say it began just after 9:30 this morning, when one of three masked bank robbers wrested a gun from a guard, jumped over the counter and traded shots with a second security guard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They stormed into the bank. They came in -- two of them just literally rushed into the bank. They caught everyone off guard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Emphasizing the urgency of the investigation, the FBI immediately offered a $50,000 reward.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These individuals who robbed this bank today may also be involved in a bank not far from here on May 10.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was all over in less than five minutes. Most bank employees were herded into a room and could only hear the shots being fired outside.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She yelled into the phone, We`re being robbed, and the security guard`s been shot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. First, a would-be minister blames the devil for his baby girl`s third degree microwave burns, and Mom backs him up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A Galveston, Texas, hotel becomes a horrific scene of abuse for a newborn baby girl. It starts when her dad says he becomes agitated. His wife unloaded their luggage from the car, the baby crying. Nineteen-year-old Joshua Mauldin picks up 2-month old Eva Marie (ph), throws her onto the bed, punches her in the groin, then puts her in the hotel room safe, next the refrigerator, and finally the microwave, turning it on. The baby girl suffers third degree burns to her face and left arm, Mauldin changing his story several times, finally confessing to the string of abuse. His wife blames the devil, saying her husband is under demonic possession.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Right now, straight out to Scott William with "The Galveston County Daily News." Scott, it`s incredible to me that tonight, faced with her daughter`s third degree burns, she, the mom, is standing by the dad. What`s going on? And what happened in court? There was a mediation, correct?
SCOTT WILLIAM, "GALVESTON CO. DAILY NEWS": There was a mediation yesterday, at the end of which the mother, Eva Mauldin, agreed to a temporary custody order whereby Child Protective Services of Texas would take custody of the injured child, Anna Mauldin. Anna has been in the care of foster parents since Monday, when she was discharged from Shriners Hospital in Galveston.
GRACE: Joining us tonight is a special guest, Sgt. Annie Almendarez. She is with the Galveston Police Department, head of the Juvenile Crimes Unit. Sergeant, thank you for being with us. I don`t understand, a mediation? They allowed the parents to mediate as to whether they could get the little girl back? Why should they get the girl back?
SGT. ANNIE ALMENDAREZ, GALVESTON POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, ma`am, the state of Texas (INAUDIBLE) CPS (INAUDIBLE) is to keep the family together, and that is their right. First they ask parents to try to keep their family together and get the child back. And yes, in my opinion, though, (INAUDIBLE) go back to her parents. But that`s their right. Living in America, you get your child back.
GRACE: You know, I`m a little confused about this, Susan Moss. You`re a family law attorney and child advocate. The little girl -- the father gives three or four cockamamie stories. They`re all in conflict with each other. I`ll go through those with you in a moment, Susan. But now the mom is standing by him.
And Susan, this is after a string prior domestic incidents, where the wife gets beaten and she says, Oh, but you know what? I was pregnant and he didn`t hit me in the stomach, like he should get a gold star for that. I really shouldn`t have called police when he beat me. It was really my fault. Now she wants him to get the baby back in his hands after he put her in the frickin` microwave?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY AND CHILD ADVOCATE: The mom has showed such an outstanding and profoundly horrific understanding about what has happened in this case that she should never have custody. Either she had no indication of what the father was capable of doing, in which case, she should be shouting from the rooftops that this man never see her child again, or she did have an indication of what this man can do, in which case, if she left this child with this man, she`s guilty of neglect. Regardless, neither of these parents should have custody of this child, and it`s questionable whether their parental rights should be terminated in full.
GRACE: Joining us is another special guest, Gwen Carter. She`s the spokesperson with Child Protective Services there in Galveston. And it`s her unfortunate fate to be stuck with dealing with this case. Gwen, it is great to have you back with us tonight. I don`t understand the whole mediation process. When a child that`s just 2 months old turns up with third degree burns, why do the parents get a say as to whether they get her back?
GWEN CARTER, SPOKESWOMAN, CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES, GALVESTON COUNTY: Well, the mediation process allowed us to talk to the parents about what we wanted.
GRACE: OK.
CARTER: And what we requested was that the child remain in foster care. And that was agreed on yesterday. And as well as today, there was a court hearing, and it was agreed that the child remain in foster care. At this time, we do not have plans to help or provide any services to the father.
GRACE: You know, what`s incredible to me? The mom says she`s going to fight to keep the baby and to get the husband out of jail so they can be a family again, with one of them in the microwave. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was inside this hotel room, behind door 518, where police say the unimaginable happened. Last Thursday, 19-year-old Joshua Mauldin was alone with his 2-month-old baby girl when he called for help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The father called down here, asked us to call 911, claimed that the child had a bad sunburn and was bleeding.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mauldin later told police he accidentally spilled boiling water on the baby. But then his story changed. A tip then led investigators to the hotel room`s microwave, much like this one, where they discovered the baby had been placed inside. Mauldin later confessed, saying stress had led him to burn his own child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to you, Bethany Marshall. We`re just trial lawyers. We need a shrink. With us, psychoanalyst and author Dr. Bethany Marshall. Stress -- why is it in so many cases, Bethany, when people get stressed out, they take it out on their children or someone who is less powerful or less cunning than themselves? Why don`t they take it out on themselves? Why on a 2-month-old baby girl? First he beat her in the groin area, after throwing her on the bed, then he puts her in the hotel refrigerator, then he puts her in the hotel safe, shutting the door. Can you imagine how scary that would be to a little baby? Then puts her in the microwave.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: You know, if every parent who was stressed out took it out on the child in this way, all of our kids in our society would be dead, OK? SO this wasn`t stress and agitated -- agitation. I don`t even know if it was just child abuse. This seems like attempted homicide to me. And let`s think about the fact that this dad abused the mom while she was pregnant, hit her in the stomach. That tells me that he was jealous of the unborn baby and potentially did not want the burden of fatherhood.
So this is a guy who does not want this little girl around. He hit her in the groin. Was that because there was sexual abuse going on? And then the woman stays with him and then says, The devil made me do it. What that tells me is that there is a whole population of women who fall in love with felons. They stay with men who abuse their children. What we know about this population is the woman takes secret pleasure and is titillated by the husband`s abuse of the child.
And then we know that this guy said he was going to go to Galveston to be a minister. Is that a portent of grandiosity, which is sometimes a characteristic of sociopathic personality? Or was he bipolar and he was having religious delusions? I think I would take all of that into account with this picture with this guy.
GRACE: One thing I want to say in response to that, Bethany. I`m certainly not your equal when it comes to psychoanalysis, but I don`t want to suggest that battered women stay in a battering relationship because they`re titillated in some way.
MARSHALL: No, this is a little different.
GRACE: I don`t believe that. I think that they feel trapped and they`re afraid and they don`t know how to get out.
MARSHALL: Can I correct?
GRACE: Yes, yes. Thank you.
MARSHALL: OK. With abused wife syndrome, what you see is the woman is very protective towards the children and wants to get the children out and is afraid to leave because she does not want the child to bear the consequences.
GRACE: Right.
MARSHALL: OK? This is a little different. I`m talking about...
GRACE: Ah!
MARSHALL: ... the population of women who fall in love with Scott Peterson in jail, or identify with this power, and then claim not to know the nature of his crimes. That is the population of women that I`m talking about, not battered wives.
GRACE: Thank you. And now I understand. She sees him abusing the child and stands by him.
MARSHALL: And there`s secret satisfaction.
GRACE: Got it. Got it.
MARSHALL: She`s an abuser, too.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Out to the lines. Frances in California. Hi, Frances.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. My question is, can Child Protective Services or the court make them undergo a psychiatric evaluation before they give that child back? They`re obviously both very disturbed.
GRACE: Frances, I`ve got some good news for you. There`s going to be a psych on the guy. I think the wife needs one, too. I want to go back out to Scott William with "The Galveston County Daily News." He`s also an author. Scott, isn`t a psych -- hasn`t a psych been ordered on him, a psychological evaluation?
WILLIAM: Yes, ma`am. They had the hearing Tuesday morning in the 212th state district court, and there were two motions that were at play there. One was a bond reduction, and the other was a petition to have Mr. Mauldin examined by a forensic psychiatrist to determine whether he`s competent to stand trial.
GRACE: Yes, that`s what I was trying to get out. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us, in addition to New York`s Susan Moss, joining us here in Manhattan, high-profile Seattle lawyer Anne Bremner. Also with us, New York lawyer Stacy Schneider. All three veteran trial lawyers.
Out to you, Anne Bremner. A competency hearing -- OK, we know where that`s going. Now, in my old jurisdiction, we would actually have a jury trial to determine competency.
ANNE BREMNER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Really?
GRACE: The defense would have their shrinks. Oh, yes. The defense would have shrinks. The state would have shrinks. There used to be a court-ordered shrink. But this is going to be a competency hearing. What`s it all about?
BREMNER: Well, and basically, when I was a prosecutor, our saying was that unless you have basically the mind of a jujube, then you`re going to - - we had a debate, Susan Moss and I, about whether it was jujubean (ph) or jujube. But whether you have that capacity, you`re going to be found competent to stand trial. The question is, can you assist your lawyer, and do you understand the nature of the proceedings that you`re about to go through, whatever they may be, whether they`re domestic or they`re criminal or some other type of case. But a jury trial, Nancy, that`s something else.
GRACE: Well, here we go. Here`s the way it works there in the Texas jurisdiction, according to my research. First of all, they do an informal -- informal -- inquiry as to whether the defendant is competent to stand trial, Stacy Schneider. In other words, as Anne Bremner pointed out, Do you understand the nature of the charges against you, and can you help or aid your lawyer in your defense? Those are the only two questions. Or are you totally a whack job and you can`t help your lawyer? This is an informal inquiry. If the judge determines the defendant may or may not be competent, either side can then take it to a competency trial. That`s just the procedure. So what do you expect in this competency hearing of this father, Stacy?
STACY SCHNEIDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, this father`s attorney requested the competency hearing because, according to him, some of the things that they discussed in the attorney-client interview were not flowing properly. There wasn`t a proper flow of information between the attorney and the client. So it`s typical for the defense attorney...
GRACE: Because he was lying to his defense attorney? Could that be it, Stacy?
SCHNEIDER: Well, I don`t think so. I think the defense attorney is realizing that the client may not be able to understand the nature of the proceedings against him and the charges against him and is having difficulty communicating with his attorney to assist in his defense.
GRACE: Uh-uh.
SCHNEIDER: But -- you`re saying uh-uh, Nancy?
(CROSSTALK)
SCHNEIDER: We`re not at insanity yet. We`re not there yet.
GRACE: I`m talking about competency. This guy is competent enough to lie to cover his own tracks.
I want to go back to Sgt. Annie Almendarez with the Galveston Police Department. First of all, Sergeant, didn`t he tell people the baby had a sunburn, then he told them that she was accidentally burned with boiling water?
ALMENDAREZ: Yes, ma`am. His first story when he called down to the front desk was, My child (INAUDIBLE) sunburn. Could you summon EMS? (INAUDIBLE) EMS was on the way, and also, the police department first responders. The police officer arrived. (INAUDIBLE) baby with a third degree burn on the (INAUDIBLE) had EMS step it up to third (ph), you know, to come a little faster. And EMS get there and to the baby, it`s, like, Oh, my God, this is not a sunburn. We get to the hospital and we question him again. He (INAUDIBLE) Oh, I spilled water on the baby. Oh, the baby was walking. And then finally, as we kept pressing him...
GRACE: A 2-month-old baby walking.
ALMENDAREZ: Yes, walking, 2 months.
GRACE: Look at this little baby. I don`t know if you can see this, Sergeant. She`s absolutely beautiful.
ALMENDAREZ: Oh, she`s gorgeous. I mean, I saw the pictures. I saw the pictures with her burn, and it brought tears to my eyes. She`s gorgeous.
GRACE: What did you see in the pictures of the little baby burned?
ALMENDAREZ: Oh, my God! Her left side of her face, her ear and her hand, as she had her hand up (INAUDIBLE) when she was pushed (ph) to the microwave. Her whole hand was burned. And it had a boil, like a bubble (INAUDIBLE) And it just brought tears to my eyes to know that a 2-month-old went through such pain for what, for no reason at all. He`s never gave us a reason why he did this, other than he was stressed (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Baby suffers burns on left side of the face. Her hand was apparently gray, gray in color. Part of her was gray in color. Her hand was cracked open. What else did you observe, Sergeant?
ALMENDAREZ: And also, she has lost part -- she has lost part of her ear because of this. After the skin graft, she lost -- she lost part of her ear.
GRACE: We know that you`re there at work. Keep going, Sergeant. We can hear you.
ALMENDAREZ: OK. Go ahead. I`m sorry. But yes, and it`s just that it was just (INAUDIBLE) saw her with the skin graft. She`s lost her hair. And you know, she`s bald now. And she`s got a skin on her arm, and her face is healing. It`s still an open wound. But she`s still a precious (INAUDIBLE) being burned, she is still a precious little angel.
GRACE: She doesn`t have her ear? Her ear is gone?
ALMENDAREZ: Part of her ear. She lost part of her ear. Where it was burned, she lost part of it.
GRACE: To Dr. Jennifer Shu. Did you hear that?
DR. JENNIFER SHU, PEDIATRICIAN: Terrible, Nancy.
GRACE: What kind of internal injuries may she have suffered?
SHU: Well, The microwave actually sends rays through the food, usually, that cooks it from the outside in. So if there was an internal organ that was touching or near where it got burned, there`s possible scarring or burning or any type of bleeding that a burn or heat energy could cause to the internal organs. But it sounds like her MRI and her CT scan were fine. So thankfully, those were all OK.
GRACE: What would it mean that part of her was actually gray in color? What does that mean?
SHU: It sounds like there was a third degree burn, which is a full thickness of the skin burn. And that`s where part of the tissue of the skin is actually dead. So that`s all dead tissue that they would have needed to remove before putting on a skin graft and letting it heal.
GRACE: To Sgt. Almendarez, Sgt. Annie Almendarez. What part of the little baby was gray, Sergeant?
ALMENDAREZ: I`m thinking (ph) it`s a part of her ear because that`s the part that they took off because part of it -- her left little lobe (ph) is (INAUDIBLE) left little lobe is gone. So I`m assuming that was the part they had to cut off because that was the part that was gray. Her little ear is kind of, in fact, healing.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Todd in Texas. Hi, Todd.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. We love you.
GRACE: Bless you. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were curious to know if there was any drug or alcohol found in the hotel room or if either parent has any prior drug or alcohol arrests.
GRACE: Interesting. Interesting, Todd in Texas. Sergeant, were drugs or alcohol involved in any way?
ALMENDAREZ: No, there was no drugs, no alcohol in the room. They had just got there, actually, and the -- as I say, the mother went (INAUDIBLE) something to eat. And there was no drugs, alcohol in the room.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her ear was gray. Her left hand was swollen, and like, cracked open. And her face was burned. (INAUDIBLE) put my hand on her and I prayed (ph) (INAUDIBLE) I didn`t want to touch her because I didn`t want to hurt her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He did it. He did it. But he -- seen himself doing it, but he couldn`t stop it. But when he come to, that`s when he stopped and he pulled her out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. I was listening as carefully as I could, and I didn`t hear -- the mom is too ashamed to show her face, and I don`t blame her. I never heard her once say anything about her baby, the 2-month-old baby girl that we`ve just learned from Sgt. Annie Almendarez has no more ear, she`s bald and she`s suffering from third degree burns and skin grafts. The mom says nothing about the baby! She`s standing by her man.
Out to Rachelle in Florida. Hi, Rachelle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Love your show.
GRACE: Thank you, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was wondering, why don`t they just charge him with attempted murder and the wife as accessory to murder?
GRACE: You know, interesting. Anne Bremner, the formal charges, I don`t believe have come down yet.
BREMNER: Right.
GRACE: Is it possible for an attempted murder? I say yes.
BREMNER: You`re absolutely right, Nancy. And she could be some kind of accessory. You know, it takes a constant struggle to see what`s right in front of your nose, and it could be he`s got huge mental issues.
GRACE: Well, gee, I just heard about it, and I think I can see it pretty clearly, Anne Bremner.
BREMNER: That`s what I`m saying, Nancy. Absolutely.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need my daughter and my daughter needs me, especially right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So she will fight to get her baby back and fight to keep her marriage alive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why would you stay with him? If he did that to your own child, why would you support him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because when I said my vows, I promised the Lord that I would stay with this man through good times and bad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Fight to keep her marriage alive? This is not Lifetime TV. The baby has third degree burns. She`s straight out of the microwave. Has everybody gone mad?
Out to Paulette in Florida. Hi, Paulette.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you today?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. But I don`t want this couple to get the baby back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think they deserve this baby back.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, would the fact that this man has not lied but once, twice, three times on how the injury to this child has happened, will the defense -- I mean, will the prosecutor use this as a point to say that he is stable enough to understand that he knows what he`s doing?
GRACE: Paulette, are you a lawyer? Are you a lawyer?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I have some criminal background, though.
GRACE: You should be. You should be because that`s what the prosecution is going to be arguing.
Out to you, Anne Bremner. He`s defeated his own insanity defense by creating self-serving lies.
BREMNER: Well, and she should be a lawyer, or a prosecutor at minimum. But the thing is, Nancy, is what he`s doing here is that he is -- he`s so delusional. I mean, everything that he`s done -- it`s either he`s evil or he`s mentally ill. And the fact is, it sure appears he -- the latter.
GRACE: Agree or disagree, Susan Moss?
MOSS: (INAUDIBLE) He was able to come up with four separate -- three separate lies in terms of what happened. He certainly can come up with new lies to help his defense counsel and to aid that trial.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: The devil made him do it. That`s the story we`re hearing from the wife of a man who is charged with burning their infant daughter in a microwave.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The attack happened here at a Quality Inn in Galveston.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Asked us to call 911, claimed the child had a bad sunburn.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then the story changed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The father told the police, supposedly, that he had dropped hot water from the coffeemaker on the child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But the injuries weren`t right, and her condition worsened. Police say Mauldin finally confessed to a crime that left his infant with third degree burns.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her ear was gray. Damaged and cracked open. And her face, she was burned on. He seen himself doing it, but he couldn`t stop it. When he come to, that`s when he stopped and he pulled her out.
GRACE: The baby is alive but the two-month-old girl has lost her ear, she is bald, she had extensive skin grafts, third degree burns. Her father at first throwing her on to the hotel bed and beating her -- two months old -- in the groin area. Then putting her in the hotel safe, closing the door, putting her in the refrigerator, closing the baby inside, then putting her into the microwave, and turning it on.
Then having the wherewithal to lie to hotel management, and police, to try and save his own skin. Out to the lines, Kathleen in Indiana.
Hi, Kathleen.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I was wondering is there anything that we, the people, could do to keep from them having that little baby back?
GRACE: Joining us right now is a special guest. It is Gwen Carter with Child Protective Services in Galveston.
This case has evoked so much heartfelt anger and empathy for this child. What`s going to happen, Gwen? I mean, these people aren`t even from Galveston. Could the case get lost? Could it be sent back home?
GWEN CARTER, GALVESTON CO. CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES: No, we`re very proud of our court system in Galveston County. And we are dedicated to making sure this baby stays safe. We`ll continue to talk to relatives. We`re going to continue to do what we need to do to make sure she stays safe.
GRACE: Another thing I`m afraid of, Ma`am, is that if the baby`s sent to relatives, I know the mother -- the mom`s mother was traveling with them. If you give the baby back to a family member, they`re just going to give it back to the mom and dad. They`re not going to keep it.
CARTER: That`s what we`ll be talking to them about. We need to know wherever this child is, this child is going to be safe. Before any decision is made, there will be some very difficult discussions we`ll be having with this family.
GRACE: To Detective Lieutenant Steve Rogers with Nutley police, former FBI, what do you make of -- we see what`s brewing, an insanity defense. They`re starting with incompetence, but once he`s deemed incompetent to stand trial, he`ll likely claim insanity.
STEVE ROGERS, NUTLEY POLICE DEPT.: This investigation is far from over. While everyone is focusing in on the father, I`m sure police are not going to focus in on the mother. Where was she? What was she doing? Was there a domestic violence incident in progress while this was going on, which could make her complicit to this? Like I said, the investigation is far from over. The police will now focus in on her.
GRACE: That`s interesting. Out to you Scott Williams with "Galveston County Daily News."
Scott, it`s my understanding that first we were told that the mom and mother were out getting supper, they said, at 2:00 a.m. Now we hear they were out unloading the suitcases out in the parking lot. Which one is true?
SCOTT WILLIAMS, "GALVESTON COUNTY DAILY NEWS": Well, that`s the latest account that they gave was that they were going to get some toiletries from the vehicle they had parked down below. They had only checked into the hotel probably about two hours before the incident happened.
GRACE: So he sends the wife out in the dark at 2:00 a.m. to get something out of the car. Is that correct?
WILLIAMS: According to what she had said.
GRACE: OK, Bethany Marshall, I`m not going to comment on his chivalry sending them out in the parking lot at the Quality Inn, or whatever it is, at 2:00 a.m., but the fact that there was a prior domestic. And her response is, to a beating from him, he didn`t hit me in the stomach when I was pregnant, although witnesses say he did. I mean, that`s the defense?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR, "DEALBREAKERS": She totally denies it. She totally minimizes it. As I said earlier, like women who fall in love with felons, they claim not to know the nature of their crimes.
You know why she hid her face in the interview, Nancy? Because I read this in the AP, because she doesn`t look like her old pictures look. This appears to be vanity, not shame. I think shame is too highfalutin a concept.
You know why she wants the baby back? Because she wants to hold the family together. This is very typical in families where there is child abuse, the child is used as a pawn. The child is not related to as a person with intrinsic value. She`s not saying I`m concerned about my baby. I want to nurse my baby. I want to make sure my baby`s OK. She said she went for a walk and she cried because she saw other happy families that were together. It is all about her, and her wish to hold on to her husband. It is not about the baby, the injuries, and the harm inflicted on this little dear child.
GRACE: Obviously, the husband doesn`t want baby. He beat the baby, then tried to kill it.
MARSHALL: Well, I would think the husband doesn`t want the baby because, according to a report I read, he did punch her in the stomach when she was pregnant, and what we know about men who abuse women when they`re pregnant is either there`s jealousy towards the unborn child, or they are not -- they do not want to take up the responsibilities of fatherhood.
I think your guest that brought up -- were they in the middle of a domestic -- because that`s a very important point. Because was this mom and dad, were they fighting and the dad, again, along the theme of the child being a pawn, did he strike out at the child to get back at the mom?
GRACE: You know, another thing -- I`m glad we`ve got you Dr. Bethany Marshall, what the mom just said was very revealing. She said he couldn`t stop himself but then he took the baby out. What is that like a light switch, you can`t stop yourself, then suddenly the light switch flicks and you can stop yourself?
MARSHALL: Nancy, of course, like the devil made me do it, the only model -- because sometimes in my field we apply models to think of things. The only model I can think of is the woman who stays with a man who is molesting the child, will deny, will minimize, will say that he`s not doing it, will take secret satisfaction in the act, but then she comes out with really outrageous excuses. I don`t think we should analyze this too much. It is just a big fat lie.
GRACE: What you just said that the mom was covering her face and talking in shadows because what?
MARSHALL: I read, according to a report, that she says she no longer looks like her old photos. That, that is why she didn`t want her face shown.
GRACE: This is vanity?
MARSHALL: This is vanity. That`s why I said shame -- it`s giving her a lot of credit, Nancy. She`s not saying --
GRACE: Hold on. Scott Williams with the "Galveston County Daily News," did you know anything about that, that she hid her face because she`s vain, and doesn`t like her appearance?
WILLIAMS: The only live person-to-person interviews she`s done had been with KHOU television, the CBS affiliate. And she told them that the reason she wanted her face to be concealed in shadow was that she did not look like the old pictures that have been circulated of her.
GRACE: OK. I don`t even know what that means. Does she think she looks worse?
WILLIAMS: She didn`t specify.
GRACE: OK. That`s crazy.
Out to the lines. And I was thinking she felt guilty or felt bad about what happened, but it`s just vanity? Out to Alicia, in New Hampshire.
Hi, Alicia.
CALLER: Hi.
GRACE: Hi, dear, what`s your question?
CALLER: I was just curious as to whether or not mom was allowed to see the baby?
GRACE: Good question. Gwen Carter, was she allowed to see the baby and the baby`s in foster care tonight, right?
CARTER: The baby is in foster care. She was placed in foster care on the 15th. And my understanding is that as a part of the mediation agreement, mom will have some supervised -- that means someone will be with her at all times -- visits with her child.
GRACE: Take a look at this baby. She looks like she`s looking right at you, and I can`t help believe that she wants someone to help her tonight. That little baby in foster care with intense burns due to her father.
And to you, Stacy Schneider, you disagree with the competency hearing?
STACY SCHNEIDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yeah, Nancy. I think we`re jumping the gun. It is very likely this is going to be an insanity defense, that he`s legally sane and he`s not guilty of these acts.
But that`s later, right now, you know, to say that he`s lying to his attorney and that`s going to get him a competency hearing, a lot of times attorneys don`t want a competency hearings, it delays the proceedings, and keeps someone in jail longer.
When they ask for a competency proceeding it is only to determine if the person`s capable of assisting in their defense. That`s what the stage we`re at right now. I`m not saying the guy`s not legally insane, but we`re making a lot of judgments early on.
GRACE: Stacy, I appreciate that, but the defense that the devil made me do it, B.S., a competency hearing is the first in line for an insanity defense, which I predict we will see down the line unless somebody gutless at the courthouse pleads this out and gives the baby back.
Very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert", skeletal remains found in northeast Georgia may be a Georgia beautician missing since October, 2005, Leslie Adams, a hometown beauty and mom of two, last seen in Atlanta. Had a protective order against her ex-boyfriend at the time, Billy Cook, still not named as a suspect. The remains found on property near a major Georgia highway.
When we come back, new surveillance photos emerge in a deadly Chicago armed bank robbery. The suspects now believed responsible for another bank attack.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a hurting feeling to get a call and just like that your whole life is changed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Burton Gibson Jr. clutches a picture of his son Tremayne, his employee of the month picture, from the bank where he was fatally shot doing the job he loved. One of three victims in bullet-riddled Southside bank heist, the 23-year-old bank teller rushed to Mount Sinai hospital where he arrived with no pulse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He fought for about three or four hours. Eventually he succumbed to his injuries. He was shot in the stomach.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: FBI investigators comb for evidence amid shattered glass from bullet holes. More holes in the walls, signs of the gun battle that killed a teller and critically injured a 48-year-old guard and a 73- year-old bank customer. Police say it began when one of three masked bank robbers wrested a gun from a guard, jumped over the counter, and traded shots with a second security guard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They stormed into the bank. They came in, two of them just literally rushed in the bank. They caught everyone off guard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Emphasizing the urgency of the investigation, the FBI immediately offered a $50,000 reward.
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GRACE: Facts emerging tonight about three masked and armed robbers that stormed a Chicago bank, taking down three innocent people, one dead; a 23-year-old young man just starting out in life as a bank teller. A 73- year-old retired Chicago school teacher, and a 48-year-old security guard.
The school teacher still behind bars -- still in the hospital. To Michelle Fiore with WBBM News Radio.
What is the latest, Michelle?
MICHELLE FIORE, REPORTER, WBBM NEWS RADION: It was Tuesday morning and relatively quiet inside the bank. There were few customer, few employees in there. And all of a sudden, these three masked men walked in, stormed in, they were armed with guns. And they really just took it over.
Within four minutes, several shots had been fired within the bank. There was, as you mentioned, a 73-year-old woman. She was in there just doing her banking. She got down on the floor. And she -- her son tells WBBM, that something made her clutch her wallet and pull it close to her heart. And you can see pictures of that wallet today. It is torn, it is bloody, and her son tells WBBM that wallet saved her life.
GRACE: Take a listen to this. John in Utah was ahead of us all. Take a listen.
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GRACE: Very quickly, I want to go out to the lines. John in Utah.
Hi, John.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear.
CALLER: My question was along those same lines, actually. I`m wondering if the suspects were wearing body armor, if there was any blood at the scene.
GRACE: John, man, you`re a step ahead of me. You`re a step ahead of me.
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GRACE: John was correct. As it turns out, out to FBI spokesperson Ross Rice, do we now believe they were wearing bulletproof vests?
ROSS RICE, FBI SPOKESPERSON: Good evening, Nancy.
We don`t know that for a fact. It appears from witness statements and from looking at the video of the robbery that one of the robbers was hit at least once with a bullet, but it didn`t appear that he was fazed at all. So there`s a very good chance that he was in fact wearing some sort of body armor.
GRACE: Ross, what can you tell us about this car? Had it just been stolen?
RICE: The car that was parked outside the bank, it was used as the getaway vehicle of the robbery, had been stolen the night before from a woman outside her home on the Southside of Chicago.
GRACE: Let`s take a look, Elizabeth, at those still images we have of the bank robbery going down. What can we learn from these images, Ross Rice, with the FBI?
RICE: Well, unfortunately, for us, the robbers were disguised. They had ski masks on and gloves and hats. So even though the bank had excellent digital imaging technology, all we have are pictures of people in ski masks.
What we`re hoping is that someone`s going the look at these photographs and they`re going to recognize the clothing. They`re going to recognize the way the people are carrying themselves, the way they`re standing, and possibly come forward with information that will help us identify and apprehend these people.
GRACE: We`ll be back with the latest on this Chicago armed bank robbery, they`re apparently connected to another vicious attack on a bank. But first, "CNN Heroes".
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LYDIA CACHO RIBEIRO, HUMAN RIGHTS ADVOCATE: One more time, looking at me.
Mexico is a macho country. If you understand that, you understand everything else. It`s a cultural thing. Owning your wife and your kids, it`s a cultural issue. And we are working on changing cultural views. That takes a long, long time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I`d come home from work and he`d say, didn`t I tell you to come at a certain time? And he would slap me or kick me. He even did it in front of the children.
RIBEIRO: The network that is helping women be rescued from violence and even from death it`s (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Cancun, it`s our institution. We are friends, their sisters, their mothers, we are here to tell them that they are not alone.
My name is Lydia Cacho Ribeiro, I`m a human rights advocate. We created a shelter for battered women. This is a high security shelter. When a woman comes to the center, we give them free services, social work, medical services, psychological help. They get trained for work, and the kids go to school. They are rebuilding their own lives.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): They rescued me from where I was living. She has done so much for me. After I had given up on myself.
RIBEIRO: We just decided that there was something needed that was far beyond talking about violence and all the things. We had to do something about it. We have success. Last year the local congress passed a law in which violence against women is a crime.
It saddens me that it is seen as an extraordinary task. Because everybody else could do the same thing and Mexico would be very different.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
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GRACE: To Headline Prime`s "Glenn Beck".
Hi, friend.
GLENN BECK: Do you remember the days of rational, civilized debate on important issues that affected our lives? Seems like many people don`t, including Rosie O`Donnell and Elisabeth Hasselbeck. They`ve turned "The View" into something more of their own pay-per-view professional wrestling match. And the fallout on the fight continues.
Then, are we possibly on the brink of a new Iranian hostage crises. I`ll have an update on this terrifying new chapter in Iran`s evil plot.
And while Congress passes stiff penalties on gas gougers, I`ll tell you the real story on why gas prices really aren`t as bad as we all think they are.
GRACE: Welcome back.
A deadly attack on a Chicago bank may not be these three perpetrators` first. Out to the lines, Phyllis in South Carolina.
Hi, Phyllis.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call.
GRACE: Yes, ma`am. What`s your question?
CALLER: I was just curious, I know banks have security. But why don`t they have metal detectors when you walk in the door?
GRACE: Man, that`s a heck of a question. Out to you Detective Lieutenant Steve Rogers. I`ve asked that about schools for years. She`s right, why not about a banks?
ROGERS: Well, it`s money. The banks don`t want to invest in metal detectors and perhaps they should. That`s a very good idea. But the best defense or -- let`s put it this way -- the best way the police will solve this problem is through those videotapes. There will be a lot of enhancement of those videotapes, a lot of analyzing. They`ll catch these guys.
GRACE: Catch this, they only got $5,000. They shoot two people, kill a third, for $5,000. Split three or four ways. Good job, guys.
Let`s stop to remember Army Private 1st Class Joseph Anzack Jr., 20, Torrance, California, killed Iraq. First tour, a star football player, wanted to enlist since he was a boy. A gunner with the Army`s 10th Mountain Division. He was abducted with two other soldiers by militants. U.S. forces conducting an intensive search. Anzack leaves behind a grieving family, Dad, Joseph, Aunt Debbie, Joseph Anzack Jr., American hero.
Thank you to our guests, but most of all, thank you for being with us and inviting all of us into your homes. See you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
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