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Lou Dobbs This Week
Immigration Battle; War Funding Bill
Aired May 27, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN HOST: Tonight the White House and pro-amnesty senators struggle to sell their grand compromise on illegal immigration. Will the Congress give amnesty to as many as 20 million illegal aliens? We'll have complete coverage.
And President Bush wins a political battle over funding for the war in Iraq. For the president warns our troops face a bloody summer of violence.
We'll have that story and much more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK, news, debate and opinion for Saturday, May 26th. Here now, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Christine Romans.
ROMANS: Good evening, everybody. Congressional Democrats tonight are promising a new political assault against President Bush's conduct of the war in Iraq. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi declared the president's Iraq policy is about to unravel, as she put it. This after the House and the Senate approved a new war funding bill that does not contain a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq. The votes on that bill exposed sharp divisions among Democrats about the party's policy on Iraq. Dana Bash reports from Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Make no mistake about it, Democrats were not happy about giving in to the president's demand for a war spending bill with no time line for withdrawal.
REP. STENY HOYER, (D) MAJORITY LEADER: The fact is, this is simply the best bill we could put together and that would be signed. It's a political reality. It is not what we want to pass.
BASH: In fact, opposition to Iraq has grown so intense ...
REP. JIM MCGOVERN, (D) MA: Just show me the money! That's all he wants. Mr. Speaker, I simply can't support it.
BASH: Nearly two-thirds of House Democrats voted against funding the war with no plan to end it. Even the Democratic chairman who wrote the bill.
REP. DAVID OBEY, (D) APPROPRIATIONS CHAIRMAN: I hate this agreement. I'm going to vote against the major portion of this agreement, even though I negotiated it. Because I think that the White House is in a cloud somewhere in terms of understanding the realities in Iraq. BASH: But the vote was especially wrenching for two leading Senate Democrats running for president. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. Both had made promises not to withhold funding for troops in harm's way. But in a dramatic turn, both voted against the war spending bill because it did not include a timetable to end the war.
Something staunchly anti-war Democratic primary voters demand. Many Democrats call the funding bill another blank check for the war. But it does have conditions. If Iraqis don't show political and military progress, the measure threatens to cut off their economic aid and forces the president to revise his Iraq strategy. Not what Democratic leaders wanted, but they vowed to keep trying.
SEN. HARRY REID, (D) NV: Mr. President, paraphrasing the words of Winston Churchill -- when it comes to forcing the president to change course in Iraq, Senate democrats will never give in, never give in, never, never, never.
BASH (on camera): This measure may not have a timetable for troop withdrawal, but for the first time the president will get and sign a bill that directly challenges his strategy in Iraq, a bill that passed with a healthy amount of Republican support. That's a significant shift when it comes to the politics of Iraq. Dana Bash, CNN, Capitol Hill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: As the Congress voted on the war funding bill, President Bush warned it could be a bloody summer in Iraq. The president said the violence is likely to escalate and American casualties in Iraq will increase. Elaine Quijano reports from the White House. Elaine?
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Christine, in sobering terms, President Bush warned that this summer will be a critical time for U.S. and Iraqi forces as they continue to carry out the latest security strategy for Iraq. The president in the Rose Garden noted that come September, Lieutenant General David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander on the ground in Iraq, would give his progress report on how that strategy was going. But ahead of that assessment, President Bush said to expect intense battles and stepped-up attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE W. BUSH, U.S. PRESIDENT: We're going to expect heavy fighting in the week and months. We can expect more American and Iraqi casualties. We must provide our troops with the funds and resources they need to prevail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: Now of course that war funding bill was pushed through but the calls remain by some Democrats to withdraw U.S. forces from Iraq immediately. The president has been trying to push back against those calls by talking about al Qaeda filling the vacuum if he says U.S. forces are pulled out of Iraq too soon. The administration continues to argue that it is al Qaeda, not sectarian violence, that poses the greatest threat in Iraq. The president believes that until that threat by al Qaeda is minimized and until Iraqi forces are able to deal with it on their own, that U.S. troops must remain. Christine?
ROMANS: Elaine Quijano reporting.
President Bush says the United Nations should move forward with sanctions against Iran because Tehran is refusing to give up its nuclear weapons program. The United Nations says Iran could have a nuclear weapon in as little as three years.
Meanwhile the United States is stepping up military and financial pressure on Iran. Barbara Starr reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The picture, the Bush administration wants Tehran to see. A U.S. naval exercise in the Persian Gulf this week. The message -- fire power that could be used against Iran's nuclear program. But in the quiet hallways of the Treasury Department, the weapon against Iran is money. Or lack of it. Treasury officials are now asking bankers from Europe to Asia, to the Middle East, to stop doing business with the Iranian regime.
STUART LEVEY, TREASURY UNDERSECRETARY: Being treated as a normal commercial actor was a big part of how they were pursuing their nuclear program.
STARR: Levey says the financial pressure of being cut off is being felt in Iran.
LEVEY: They have been sort of surprised by how they're getting shut out of what they considered legitimate banking around the world.
STARR: U.S. officials say some blue chip banks, including Barclay's, HSBC and Credit Lyonnaise have dropped some or all of their business with Iran. In the face of sanctions, Iran has increasingly turned to secret front companies and middlemen to finance weapons programs and terrorist activities making it harder for those legitimate bankers to even know they are doing business with Iran.
LEVEY: We're starting to see a real impact within Iran that no one wants to deal with their banks, no one wants to deal with their companies.
STARR: The U.S. already had moved against Iran's state-owned banks, banning access to the U.S. financial system. The U.S. says one bank, Bank Saderate, had sent money to Hezbollah and another bank, Bank Sepah, has been directly been involved in Iran's weapons programs. There's no official policy to destabilize Iran, but the result of all of this may be just that.
LEVEY: What we're trying to do is precisely to generate that kind of discussion and dissent within Iran where those who are legitimate business people, those who care about the future of the country, will step back an realize the reason that's happening is not because the West -- or the world community is out to get them. (END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR (on camera): Treasury Department officials say the program is working because conservative bankers simply do not want to get caught up in Iran's terrorist or weapons programs. Christine?
ROMANS: Barbara, do these financial sanctions have any chance on their own of stopping Iran's nuclear program, or is more robust action necessary when it comes to Tehran?
STARR: Well, the Bush administration believes a wide range of actions is necessary. These types of financial sanctions, UN sanctions, economic pressure, all of it. The one thing they do continue to say, however, is that at this point no military action is contemplated.
ROMANS: All right, Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Thank you, Barbara.
In Iraq, the anti-American cleric Muqtada al Sadr has resurfaced after apparently returning from exile in Iran. Al Sadr delivered a fiery sermon demanding withdrawal of all U.S. troops from Iraq. Al Sadr has been in hiding since the beginning of the U.S. troop buildup in Iraq in February.
Meanwhile, British and Iraqi troops in the southern Iraqi city of Basra have killed one of al Sadr's top lieutenants. The dead man was the commander of al Sadr's militia in Basra.
Still to come, are many senators putting amnesty before border security? We'll have a special report.
Also, fed up with the federal government, communities all across the country are taking action on their own to tackle illegal immigration.
Mexico's war against drug cartels is escalating and that war is now spreading into this country. We'll have a special report.
And the Congress passes measures to deal with the culture of corruption in washington. But is it real reform or is it just a public relations stunt? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: What they're calling the immigration grand compromise in the Senate is different from what many state and local governments favor. Many have shown a tendency to crack down on immigration in sharp contrast to the Senate's answer of blanket amnesty.
Bill Tucker has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Perhaps members of Congress need to get out more often, out of Washington and into the grocery store back home. RANDY TERRILL, (R), OKLAHOMA STATE HOUSE: These folks in Washington, DC are simply out of touch. The grass-roots particularly here in Oklahoma, 78 percent of them in an April 25th poll indicated that illegal immigration wasn't just a problem, it was a major problem.
TUCKER: Which is why Oklahoma just passed a tough bill that cuts off state social services to illegal aliens. A move that is expected to save Oklahoma taxpayers $200 million a year. The bill also cracks down on employers who hire illegal aliens and authorizes the police to cooperate with federal authorities on immigration enforcement. Slightly different from Washington's approach. Maybe the difference is -- location, location, location.
MARK KRIKORIAN, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: The government actually has to look the people in the eye. I mean they live right there.
TUCKER: Right where the impact of illegal immigration is felt. In the schools. Right where the impact on health care can be seen. Oklahoma is not alone. Georgia led the way when it passed legislation getting tough on illegal immigrants.
And it's not just states. Farmers Branch, Texas, put an ordinance aimed at preventing landlords from renting to illegal aliens to a referendum vote and it passed by a margin two to one. Hazelton, Pennsylvania is in the middle of a fierce court fight defending its ordinances cracking done on illegal immigration.
CHIP ROGERS, (R) GA STATE SENATE: The simple fact of the matter is Congress is not home talking to the people. Instead they listen to big-time contributors, they listen to people that only care about bottom-line profits and don't care about the United States of America.
TUCKER: And the money is definitely on the side of illegal aliens and big business.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER (on camera): Other cities that have considered passing ordinances similar to Hazelton or Farmers Branch have backed down in the face of well-financed advocates of illegal aliens. The National Chamber of Commerce spends heavily defending corporate America's access to cheap labor. And one lawyer involved in the defense of Hazelton put it this way -- he said to me, Christine, no one is spending that kind of money in defense of legal residents or citizens.
ROMANS: What about the money spent lobbying on the state level versus the federal level?
TUCKER: It is very, very different. Generally speaking lobbyists don't spend heavily at the state level. Although Representative Terrell said that when Oklahoma was considering its bill, he was besieged by lobbyists like he'd never seen before.
ROMANS: Interesting. All right. Bill Tucker. Thank you very much, Bill. One reason many local governments are unhappy with the Senate's bill is because of the federal government's apparently wide-open border policy. Just across the border three Mexican police officers were recently killed, the latest victims of drug cartel violence that's terrorizing a third of Mexico's states. And as Casey Wian now reports, U.S. officials say violence is spilling across our border.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Three Mexican police officials in the northern border state of Nuevo Leon were gunned down over the weekend. The shootings carried all the signs of the drug cartel executions now occurring regularly throughout Mexico.
PRESIDENT FELIPE CALDERON, MEXICO (through translator): The government needs the firm support of society. Because the challenges are not minor. We are ready to meet them head-on.
WIAN: Residents of the border town of Canonea (ph) are still reeling from last week's battle between federal troops and drug cartel members that left 23 people dead, including five local police officers. More than 1,000 killings have been linked to Mexico's warring drug cartels so far this year. In other words, the cartels are killing nearly eight people a day.
GENARO GARCIA LUNA, MEXICAN FEDERAL SECURITY SECRETARY (through translator): We are not going to take steps backwards. The federal authority will not retreat.
WIAN: Some Mexican lawmakers are now questioning the wisdom of President Felipe Calderon's deployment of 24,000 federal troops to fight the cartels. Meanwhile U.S. border state governors and local law enforcement say the violence is spreading to the U.S. side but the Bush administration downplays the threat, claiming the border is more secure.
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We've already seen a tremendous change in the momentum at the border, not only in terms of apprehensions going down, showing that there is a lesser flow, but we're hearing from local law enforcement and local ranchers that they are seeing fewer people come across.
WIAN: That's not what we are hearing. These photographs were taken the morning after the Senate announced its immigration reform compromise. Residents along California's eastern border say they've seen larger groups of illegal aliens crossing since the amnesty deal became public.
It's an oft-repeated trend since President Bush first began discussing the guest worker amnesty program with former Mexican president Vicente Fox six years ago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN (on camera): Border Patrol says it has no evidence more illegal aliens are crossing in search of amnesty, and no evidence they're crossing in larger groups. A Border Patrol spokesman says it is too early to tell. Christine?
ROMANS: Casey, thank you. Casey Wian reporting.
Coming up, why did Senate and administration negotiators focus on amnesty instead of enforcing existing law and securing the border?
And the House passes legislation limiting lobbyist activities. Real reform or just political posturing? We'll have a report. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: It appears the democrats are finally acting on their 2006 campaign promise of lobbying reform. This week the House of Representatives approved mandatory disclosure of lobbyists who bundle campaign donations. Lawmakers also passed a second measure outlining new rules for Congress and lobbyists. Andrea Koppel has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Last year Democrats pledged in the wake of the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal, once they controlled congress, they'd break the links between lawmakers and lobbyists.
REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D) MAJORITY LEADER: You cannot advance the people's agenda unless you drain the swamp that's Washington, DC.
KOPPEL: But now that they are in power, the Democrats have backed off a key campaign promise, to double the amount of time from one to two years that ex-lawmakers and senior staff must wait before lobbying Congress. Freshman Democrat Nick Lampson says it is a pledge that shouldn't be broken.
REP. NICK LAMPSON, (D) TX: I didn't come to Washington, DC to get rich. I came to do public service.
KOPPEL: The man Lampson beat last November was the former Republican majority leader, Tom DeLay, who resigned, caught up in ethics scandals. Now Lampson worries the Democrats' new lobbying reform legislation falls short.
LAMPSON: There are good measures in this.
KOPPEL: But it just doesn't go far enough.
LAMPSON: It doesn't go far enough.
KOPPEL: What it would do is require lawmakers to disclose when they're job hunting with a lobbying firm, create a public database of registered lobbyists who would also have to disclose more of their activities, including what's known as bundling, soliciting small campaign contributions, and then bundling them into a larger donation.
But while some Democrats grumble this legislation wasn't tough enough, others, like Virginia's Jim Moran complained Democrats were going too far. In particular, with bundling, which Moran explained is a big source of campaign cash.
REP. JIM MORAN, (D) VA: We will do this, but then to expect us to raise $1 million every time we run, that's difficult.
KOPPEL: The realities, say congressional watchdogs, Democrats can only go so far with lobbying reform. If they want to stay in power.
SHEILA KRUMHOLZ, CENTER FOR RESPONSIVE POLITICS: If they pursue all of the goals that they espoused in the beginning, they might be shooting themselves in the foot electorally.
KOPPEL (on camera): Still, Democrats make no apologies and call this the most sweeping ethics reform legislation since Watergate. Andrea Koppel, CNN, Capitol Hill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: President Bush's choice to lead the Consumer Product Safety Commission has withdrawn his nomination amid growing controversy. Michael Baroody, a former lobbyist for the National Association of Manufacturers is under fire for a $150,000 payment he accepted from the NAM.
Consumers Union and Public Citizens brought Baroody's ties to the industry to the attention of this broadcast weeks ago. Now some Senate Democrats say Baroody cannot provide leadership necessary to protect consumers. The Consumer Product Safety Commission is of course charged with enforcing safety standards at NAM member companies.
Coming up, critics of the immigration bill say we should concentrate on securing our borders and enforcing current laws. We'll have a report.
Among nations with large immigrant populations, U.S. immigration policy stands out. We'll tell you why.
And a new poll looks at the issues that concern most Americans. We'll have a report on just what those issues are. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Rick Sanchez right here in the CNN NEWSROOM. Let's try and bring up to date on what's going on right now. The U.S. military is reporting that five more U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq. Including three Task Force Lightning soldiers killed in an explosion and a Marine that was killed in combat. The military is reporting three additional troop deaths this week in Iraq that have not been reported before;101 U.S. forces have died just this month alone.
President Bush has signed a war funding bill stripped of any timetable for troop withdrawal in Iraq. Mr. Bush said it sends a clear signal to some of the Iraqi leaders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RICHARD CHENEY, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Last night President Bush signed into law the war supplemental that we worked hard to achieve. As we look to the future I want to say this to the graduates. And to all the men and women of the corps and the families that gathered in the stadium today. Whatever lies ahead, the United States Army will have all of the equipment, supplies, manpower, training and support essential to victory. I give you this assurance on behalf of the president. You soldier for him and he will soldier for you.
SANCHEZ: Hats a-flying after the vice president's address at West Point today. U.S. troops have been fighting in Iraq since these cadets first entered West Point.
An animal rescue drama playing out in California's Sacramento delta. Biologists are hoping to herd a humpback whale and her calf back to the Pacific Ocean using a powerful hose now. The whales swam away from the hose Friday. Rescuers are planning to spray them again Tuesday when holiday boat traffic eases off.
More trouble we've just learned for actress Lindsay Lohan. According to police Lohan was cited today for driving under the influence. She was also involved in a single-car accident. Lohan was taken to the hospital by another motorist not involved in the accident. The extent of Lindsay Lohan's injuries at this point not known.
I'm Rick Sanchez. As news breaks we'll bring it to you right away. Now let's take you back to the LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK.
ROMANS: The White House and Senate negotiators are prepared to put millions of people in this country on a path to citizenship in an attempt to stop illegal immigration. But many say what's really need is control of our borders and ports and enforcement of current immigration laws.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS (voice-over): Six-hundred pages and counting. It will be the third major immigration fix in about 40 years. Chip Rogers is a Republican state senator from Georgia who says there is no reason to think this deal will work any better than the last.
ROGERS: Congress, it seems like, every 20 years would come up with some sort of new plan on how we're going to rewrite the law because we weren't willing to enforce the current law.
ROMANS: Like securing the borer. Tracking visa overstays and fining employers for hiring illegal aliens.
REP. BRIAN BILBRAY, (R) CA: We need to crack down on the illegal employers and get tough with them and not just try to say we can do it all at the border.
ROMANS: Immigration reform in 1986 granted amnesty to at least three million and was billed as the end of illegal immigration. This deal promises to end illegal immigration by awarding Z visas to at least 12 million. SEN. JIM BUNNING, (R) KY: A few senators and the administration have crafted a large-scale get-out-of-jail-free pass.
ROMANS: Another amnesty, critics say, instead of real border security. But supporters say the Z visas are not amnesty and the whole deal hinges on securing the border first.
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECY.: The legislation actually commits more resources to border safety and security than has ever been committed in the history of the United States.
ROMANS: Three hundred seventy miles of fence, 18,000 Border Patrol agents. The bill assumes the border can be secured in 18 months.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS (on camera): But the critics of this deal say the political will is for amnesty, not border security. And they say the White House and key senators have set up a false choice between their deal or mass deportations. How about simply securing the border, they say, and enforcing current law?
Occasionally candor meets up with accuracy in Washington. Some frank words this week from House minority leader John Boehner. Boehner said the bill currently working its way through Congress is, quote, "a piece of" four-letter word that starts with s that we aren't going to say on national television but you get the idea.
If you look at some of the provisions in this proposed new law, it's not hard to see why the minority leader, though, is a little frustrated.
Among the worst provisions, people in the country illegally would be given legal status just one day after their application is filed, even if a background check isn't completed.
Other provisions, taxpayers, you, will be paying for the immigration lawyers for illegal aliens. Supporters of the bill call the new Z- visas temporary but these new visas can be renewed indefinitely.
Gang members are eligible for amnesty. The Heritage Foundation estimates there are at least 30,000 illegal alien gang members in 33 states. The U.S. government and American taxpayers will help the Mexican government provide enough incentives like a decent education and health care there for Mexicans to stay in their own country. Another provision of this bill, illegal aliens won't have to pay back taxes.
And while some claim U.S. immigration policies are restrictive, the facts show something entirely different. In fact, among countries with large immigrant populations, U.S. policy may be the most liberal for those who choose to enter the country legally. Kitty Pilgrim has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): According to commerce secretary Carlos Gutierrez, the reality is we don't have enough people, comparing u.s. Immigration policies to France, Germany and Japan, he added the big challenge of the 21st century is who gets the people. Who gets the immigrants.
The United States is the number one immigration draw. By some calculations, the current U.S. immigration legislation will promote a surge of millions more immigrants, and their family members.
JESSICA VAUGHAN, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: There is of course a sense of entitlement among immigrants that they should be allowed to bring in their family members and their extended family members. And that mentality is certainly going to continue under this legislation.
PILGRIM: Other countries put strict limits on immigrants' families. France, for example, tightened laws after riots in immigrant communities in 2005. The French President Nicolas Sarkozy campaigned saying France could not provide quote, "a home for all the world's misery." He now advocates controlled immigration.
RITA SIMON, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY: France, for example, watches its immigrants much more carefully, the immigrants have to report in when they move, when they change jobs and so forth.
PILGRIM: Canada admits about one percent of the population, or 300,000 immigrants, a year. But favors young immigrants who can contribute longer before collecting retirement benefits.
DEMETRI PAPADEMETRIOU, IMMIGRATION POLICY INSTITUTE: The point system is a fairly simple, basically tries to figure out what are the qualifications that Canada needs.
PILGRIM: In Australia, Prime Minister John Howard's re-election was tough against people seeking asylum, so-called boat people. Immigrants are admitted only for certain job categories, and there are strict limits on extended family members.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM (on camera): The United States is the absolute first choice for immigrants, followed by Canada. And together, they receive more than one-half of the world's immigrants. But the United States has the most liberal policy in the world. There is simply no other country that can match the generosity of allowing in so many extended family members of immigrants. Christine?
ROMANS: All right. Kitty Pilgrim, thank you very much, Kitty.
President Bush and Senate Republicans who support that compromise on immigration are coming under fire from members of their own party. They're outraged that Republicans would back a deal to give amnesty to millions of illegal aliens. Joining me now is Brian Darling, director of U.S. Senate relations for the Heritage Foundation. Welcome to the program, Brian.
BRIAN DARLING, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Thanks for having me on.
ROMANS: You call this nothing less than a sellout. Why?
DARLING: It is a sellout to conservative principles, a sellout to the concept of keeping to the rule of law. This bill grants amnesty to at least 12 million illegal immigrants in the country. The process was broken. This bill was attempted to be railroaded through the Senate.
And this is going to cost the taxpayers possibly in the trillions. The triggers in the bill are a fraud on the American people. They don't need to be enforced, because the amnesties kick in the day after this bill is passed. So the American people need to understand, this is a sellout of conservative principles and a sellout of the rule of law.
ROMANS: But when you talk to the senators and you listen to them trying to sell this proposal this week on the hill, they say this is about border security first. They say these triggers mean something and matter, and they say this is our last best hope to get it done.
DARLING: Well, there was a vote last week that would have removed the amnesty from the bill. If you take the amnesty out and just leave the triggers in and leave the border security in, now we are talking about a bill that may have some relevance. The problem is the amnesty, the Z-visas kick in the day after the bill is passed. There are no triggers for the Z-visas. You'll have individuals having Social Security numbers and the legal right to stay in this country the day after this bill is passed.
ROMANS: What I would wonder, though, is if we can have the status quo. I mean there is -- hasn't been a political will really to enforce the laws we've already got. There's got to be some kind of fix here. So what do we do?
DARLING: Well, the federal government needs to do a better job of enforcing existing law. Last year the Congress passed the Secure Fence Act which authorized 700 miles of new fencing. Congress needs to make sure that the administration enforces that and builds that fence. We need to have better employment sanctions and make sure that people are not hiring illegal immigrants.
So we need to do a better job of enforcing existing laws. And when you look at this compromised bill versus a status quo, the status quo is better. Why don't we scrap this bill, start all over again and try and come up with some real reform.
ROMANS: I want to listen to what Senator Ted Kennedy had to say about this. Because he's been right there among the architects of this bill and he's sort of out there with them, sort of setting up this choice between mass deportations or mass amnesty. Let's listen to the senator.
Let's listen to the senator.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. TED KENNEDY, (D) MA: Most importantly, we'll say to the millions of undocumented here that they're safe and they're secure, they're not going to be deported. But before they can ever adjust their status and become -- get on the path towards citizenship they're going to have to earn it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: A Republican senator said this week that this is not amnesty, this is a plea bargain. People are going to have to pay, they're going to have to take English classes, they are going to have to take civics classes. You don't buy that.
DARLING: No. People who have come here illegally as recently as five months ago can walk in and apply for a Z-visa after this bill is passed. They will get amnesty for people as recently as five months ago snuck into this country. There is no plea bargain. This is a great deal if you're an illegal immigrant because you're walking into this country, you're being forgiven for all your sins. You pay a fee, then you get amnesty. It is a great deal. And I think all the people that have been waiting in line for years to legally come into this country would have been better off sneaking into the country illegally and trying to get this expedited pathway to welfare benefits an citizenship.
ROMANS: Frankly they would have been better off twice now, because if you'd have waited in the early '80s you'd have gotten amnesty in '86, now potentially this time around.
Let me ask you about the guest program quickly. Some say it is just humanitarian, we'll take pressure off the border if we can allow a legal way for people to come in and work jobs. Others say it is going to create the next sort of level of illegal immigration because it is unrealistic to think people will want to come here and not bring their families and go home every two years and only work for six years.
DARLING: It is true. We need a true temporary guest worker program that's temporary. This bill does not have any mandate that mandates people leave after they're here on their visas. Once these visas kick in there is no way for it to stop if we find out that people aren't leaving. Also the issue of anchor babies, people coming here and having kids that automatically get citizenship, that's not even addressed in this bill. This bill has so many flaws, I think Congress needs to take a second look and to start all over again.
ROMANS: All right. It's 600 pages. They have all week to take another look if they look at it if they like. Thank you so much, Brian Darling from Heritage. Thank you so much.
DARLING: Thank you.
ROMANS: Coming up, the issues that most concern Americans. A new poll has some results that might surprise you. We'll have a report.
And our distinguished panel of political analysts will give us their thoughts. Following political intrigue, Senator Hillary Clinton says she will campaign for the Iowa caucuses. We'll have the details. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: The war in Iraq is still a major concern for most Americans. But Democratic and Republican voters are sharply divided on other issues they consider important. Bill Schneider has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D) IL: Style a government in Washington ...
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN ANALYST: Democrats are angry.
OBAMA: We've had a government that defies reason and defies the facts.
SCHNEIDER: Look at fund-raising. During the first four months of this year, Democratic presidential candidates out raised republican candidates by more than $25 million. Look at the level of interest in the issues. The CNN Opinion Research Corporation poll asked people how important they considered each of 17 issues. A majority of Democrats considered five issues extremely important. At the top of the Democrats' agenda -- Iraq. 60 percent.
SEN. CHRIS DODD, (D) DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: Ask the American soldiers and our military to win a civil war in someone else's country is unrealistic and wrong.
SCHNEIDER: Followed by four domestic issues -- education, Social Security, gas prices and health care.
JOHN EDWARDS, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We bring down health care costs for everybody, because health care costs are completely out of control.
SCHNEIDER: Republican voters show noticeably less concern about all five issues. What are Republicans' top concerns? Terrorism tops the list. Followed by Iraq. Republicans see Iraq as part of the terrorist threat.
BUSH: The enemy in Vietnam had neither the intent, nor the capability to strike our homeland. The enemy in Iraq does.
SCHNEIDER: Most of the Republicans' top issues relate to national security. Even so, Democrats are just as concerned about terrorism and more concerned about Iraq, Iran and corruption. The only issue Republicans are more concerned about, immigration.
SEN. JOHNNY ISAKSON, (R) GA: We've had an immigration policy that for the better part of 21 years has been to look the other way as people float across our southern border to calibrate on a low basis legal immigration to say we're doing something about it, while millions come into this country. It's got to come to an end. SCHNEIDER (on camera): Republicans want 2008 to be just like 2004 when the top issue was terrorism. Democrats want 2008 to be just like 2006, when the top issue was Iraq. Each party is trying to replicate its most recent success. Bill Schneider, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: CNN has obtained an internal memorandum from the Clinton campaign that urged Senator Hillary Clinton to skip the Iowa caucuses. But the candidate herself says, Iowa is on her schedule. Candy Crowley has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Developing caucus 2008 news for you now. Will Hillary Clinton skip the Iowa caucuses?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Heartburn at Camp Hillary after an internal memo spilled into the public domain. My recommendation, wrote Clinton's deputy campaign manager, is to pull completely out of Iowa and spend the money and Senator Clinton's time on other states. Whoa. Skip Iowa? This is heresy in the state which holds its first in the nation contest for the primary season. Iowa likes its presidential candidates early and often.
GOV. BILL RICHARDSON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You have a great gift and the gift is that you're the first arbiter of who the president should be.
CROWLEY: Iowa, to which they all pledge allegiance.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) AZ: I was here in Mason City once before and I was privileged, really. And I say this with all sincerity, what a beautiful, beautiful place this is.
OBAMA: This is just the first of many visits that I'm going to make to Cedar Rapids.
CROWLEY: All of them pledge allegiance.
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON, (D) NY: But I just want to pledge to you that I will be here over and over again.
CROWLEY: Bowing out of Iowa would be one way to draw the sting in Clinton loses to John Edwards who is currently leading state polls. But the memo obtained by CNN, its authenticity confirmed by the campaign, does not talk about poll numbers. It says instead this is about the calendar, arguing that so many huge states are moving up their own primary contests to get a cut of the action, Iowa's importance to the process is fading.
Long story short -- Hillary Clinton is not pulling out of Iowa. She said so in an interview she gave to the "Des Moines Register." "I am someone who encourages people to raise ideas," she said, "but I make the decisions and I've made the decision that we are competing in Iowa." And she's got the stats to prove it, including 10 state campaign offices and an upcoming two-day six-event trip. Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Senator Clinton trying to prove her commitment to the Iowa caucuses with a two-day campaign swing through the state. The senator spent Friday and most of Saturday campaigning in northern Iowa.
Coming up, Democratic presidential candidates Senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama both vote against the new war spending bill. What will this mean for their presidential campaigns? Our panel of top political experts tells us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: I am joined now by three of this country's best political analysts. In New York, Errol Louis of the "New York Daily News." And Republican strategist Georgette Mosbacher. I'll start from Washington. Diana West of the "Washington Times." Thanks for joining me, everyone. I'll talk with you first, Errol, about the war spending bill.
Clinton and Obama voted against this. How is that going to play on the campaign trail do you think? What's the significance, if anything?
ERROL LOUIS, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": I think they're playing for higher stakes than just the folks back home. They're trying to align themselves with the 61-plus percent of the American public that wants the United States forces to come home. They're clearly betting that will be the mood of the country six months from now when primary season begins in earnest. I think that's what they are hoping for, that is what they are expecting.
And the reason they temper all of their remarks is that they know that that can change in an instant take pending on what happens in the ground in Iraq.
GEORGETTE MOSBACHER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Actually I think that while they are looking at the 61 percent of Americans who want the troops to come home, at the same time Americans don't see themselves as losers, and they understand that a strategy of surrender isn't a strategy. So while they want the troops to come home, I think that it is a high wire act that they're walking. They've got to find a way to either give American people a sense that they're still winners and that whatever happens after we leave is not going to be a bigger problem, at the same time coming up with how we bring the troops home and still be perceived as winners.
ROMANS: Diana? What do you think?
DIANA WEST, "WASHINGTON TIMES": Well, I agree with the comments coming along so far. Think that what the Democrats are trying to do is not -- Senator Clinton doesn't want to be out Senator Obama-ed by Senator Obama and vice versa.
And also Senator Dodd another one of those candidates to vote against. They are hoping that the Democratic Party becomes the party opposed to fighting and the Republican Party is becoming the party that wants to keep fighting. If this truly holds the course here, we're going to have a big choice between the two parties, but meanwhile, there is no leader, no candidate on either side that seems to be assessing what strategy is necessary to address national security interests in the region, namely Iran and Syria and other bad actors. That has yet to emerge. So I think this is still very just beginnings of what will be developing.
LOUIS: And with the president whose approval ratings are so low, the temptation will be to play for the short-term gain, to play for the next three months, six months, first round of primaries. I think that's going to keep the Democrats in that position of trying to get out of Iraq, trying to extract forces from that one country, and I think you're absolutely right, Diana, overlooking or postponing at great risk, I'd say, the larger strategic regional questions that have really not been on the agenda at all for the last few months.
WEST: And meanwhile, Congress' ratings are rivaling President Bush's ratings for lowness. It is obvious the American people aren't hearing answers or strategies that make sense.
ROMANS: Well, let's hear what House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said, because Democrats are vowing to keep up the pressure to set a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D) HOUSE SPEAKER: We are going to bring an end to this war and we have to take the steps necessary to do them. Some of them will be more unifying in terms of the vote that is there, but all of us have that goal that at the end of the day the American people are very wise on this, and their wisdom will be reflected in the actions of Congress in a bipartisan way.
(END VIDEO CLIP0
ROMANS: Errol, it looks like September could be pivotal because they're going to be talking about funding for 2008. Where does this debate head from here?
LOUIS: Well, in fact it picks up where it left off and it becomes actually much more serious, because Speaker Pelosi told me in an interview this week that they're going to attach their politics to the main funding bill, the funding of the whole United States government.
Not just the supplemental to try and re-up military funding for Iraq. That they're going to put in amendment after amendment, bill after bill, trying to sort of use their power of the purse to bring this thing to a halt, to grind it to a halt. It is going to be enormously controversial. She is really -- that clip you played sounded like the last speech of the November election. This is what got her a Democratic majority. She's going to stay that course as long as the public is going to continue to blame the president and the Republicans. The Democrats are not going to take any steps to make it easier for them to get out of this mess.
ROMANS: Georgette?
MOSBACHER: Yes, but at some point you have to articulate what are those steps. You can't just go out there and continue this debate and go nowhere with it and you can add all the amendments you want to these bills. At some point the American public is going to wise up to the fact that the Democrats are merely holding the armed forces hostage and the American taxpayer hostage so they can get their pork barrel sentences into a bill about people's lives and America's stature in the rest of the world.
ROMANS: Diana, is it as bleak as all that?
WEST: I think it is very bleak. But it is also interesting to me that with all the rhetoric coming out of the Democratic Party on this, so many Democrats did not vote against this funding bill. I mean, you'd think by the leadership's tone that the whole country supported them in this. But obviously members are hearing differently back home. Otherwise we wouldn't have seen this bill with the dates divorced from it, the withdrawal dates, that is.
ROMANS: All right. Everyone stick with us. We're going to get a lot more on this after the break when we have more with our political panel coming right up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: We're back with our political panel in New York, Errol Louis and Georgette Mosbacher. And from Washington, Diana West. I want to ask all of you, we talked about how the politics of the war in Iraq is playing out for the Democrats.
Let's talk about the politics of immigration reform for the Republicans. Errol, is this something that's splitting the Republican Party?
LOUIS: Oh, absolutely. You have Republicans, and some Democrats, frankly, especially in the border states, for whom this is a top issue, a pressing issue and they need and want immediate reforms, a crackdown on security of the borders and so forth, but there are many others who just don't go in that direction.
So we have a Republican mayor of New York City for example who's about as pro-amnesty as you can get. We have formal rules in New York that the police and teachers and other government officials are not to inquire into the immigration status of people who come for city services.
ROMANS: And there are a lot of towns that are like that, frankly.
LOUIS: Many, many. And you've got the Catholic Church which is behind a relaxed kind of a stance. So I think for republicans to want to continue to push this issue they're finding some resistance from those running in the presidential contest. They know where these polls are going to take them come November of next year.
ROMANS: Diana, it was interesting to see Jon Kyl stood up before the cameras and he said listen, I will admit, yes, I am learning some new words from my constituents. They know, they're hearing it back home, but they say they were elected to try to fix this problem. Senator Lindsey Graham, he said don't just stand here and shout us down, we have worked a long time for this compromise and this is our best bet. This is the best product that's out there to offer. What do you think?
WEST: I think that's pathetic! But I would also say that in him playing the poor put-upon shouted-upon senator in Washington, I would add that for years, public opinion polls have been saying exactly the kind of opposite of this kind of amnesty plan that he an the other bill supporters are trying to put over.
I mean this is a story that consistently the American people have been demanding, asking for, border security first. And even the polls to this -- up to the minute still reflect that. So I really think that this amnesty plan still reflects corporate, ethnic interests, not so much the will of the various states' populations. And it will be interesting to see what happens after Memorial Day break. Those new words that all these different Republicans will learn coming back to Washington.
ROMANS: I want to talk a little bit about the border security and the temporary worker program and how the White House and the proponents of this are sort of saying these two things go together. Let's listen to what the president said about how temporary guest workers actually help the border security angle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I don't see how you can have the border security of the American people expect unless you have a temporary worker program with a verifiable work card. People will come here to do work to feed their families and they'll figure out ways to do so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: OK. So border security first, Georgette, or a temporary guest worker program will take pressure off the border? How does that work?
MOSBACHER: I think they have to be somewhat simultaneous. I do think the president does have a point. People who want to feed their families, who are starving, will find a way to pierce the border.
We have to -- However, all of this debate becomes moot without securing the border. And that has got to be the first priority. But previously to the discussion previously, to just say -- throw a hand grenade into this bill I don't think would be productive. If you back out the amnesty and you look at the bill, there is some -- there are some very positive provisions. It is a start. It's certainly further than we've gotten in the past.
LOUIS: The problem is when people say that they want to take amnesty out of this, it's simply not possible and the president has enormous credibility on this as the former governor of a border state.
To get rid of 12 million people is like trying to find and deport against their will the entire populations of Los Angeles, Chicago, Phoenix ...
MOSBACHER: That doesn't do any good without taking amnesty out of it. Amnesty, that word, there are other ways to bring these 12 million people out of the dark without amnesty.
ROMANS: We could go on for 10 more minutes, folks, but I'm afraid we absolutely can't. Errol Louis, Georgette Mosbacher and Diana West. Thank you all three of you for joining us. Thank you very much for your insights and thank you for joining us.
Please join us tomorrow. For all of us here, thanks for watching. Enjoy your weekend. Good night from New York. THIS WEEK AT WAR starts right now with Tom Foreman.
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