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CNN Larry King Live
"The View" Without Rosie
Aired May 29, 2007 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, Lindsay Lohan's Memorial Day meltdown. It's back to rehab for the second time in six months. A statement released just hours ago says Lohan admitted herself to an intensive medical rehab facility yesterday. This after a wild weekend that saw her spin from a drunk driving citation -- with what could be cocaine found at the scene -- to being caught by paparazzi looking like this in somebody else's car.
Can the trouble but talented start get her life under control?
We've got the latest.
But first, "The Donald."
He's here with me on Rosie's controversial exit from "The View" after the show returned today without her. The gloves are off once again.
What's he going to say this time?
It's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Welcome to a special edition of LARRY KING LIVE.
It's always special when Donald Trump is the guest.
He comes to us from one of his many establishments, Trump Tower.
Donald, Barbara Walters came back to "The View" today and here's what she had to say. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE VIEW," COURTESY ABC)
BARBARA WALTERS, CO-HOST: Rosie O'Donnell is not coming back to finish the last three weeks of the show, as she was supposed to be.
This all -- this makes us very sad. Rosie and I have been e- mailing each other all weekend with the most affectionate notes, because we are very close friends. And, as I said last week, my admiration for her and my for her -- Rosie, if you're watching, nothing will change that.
It was Rosie's decision not to return for the other three weeks. She has said on her blog that she was upset by a split screen, which is a device that shows two people together. We have used the split screen. We used it several times last week. You know, it is "The View." We do have different opinions. I will always -- we will always be grateful to Rosie for her contribution this year. She's welcome to come back any time she wants and we hope that it will be often.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Donald, is it safe to say this all began with you?
What is your reaction to Barbara's statement this morning?
TRUMP: Well, look, Barbara is the happiest person on earth right now. She got rid of Rosie. Rosie, for her, was a total catastrophe. It showed Barbara as obviously not telling the truth, at least in the episode with me.
Yes, I'm giving credit for leading to Rosie's downfall, but the fact is Rosie will always have a downfall because that's Rosie. She's a very, very self-destructive person. She's a lot of problems. They're very deep-seated. And Rosie will sort of always have difficulty.
KING: Are you surprised that Barbara was so strong on her behalf?
TRUMP: Well, Barbara is trying to save face, also. She chose Rosie. Rosie got into a big debate with me over Tara Connor, which I think I did the right thing. I was trying to help somebody. And especially in these times, with the drug and alcohol abuse, I was helping somebody. And so far, Tara Connor is doing a great job. She hasn't touched alcohol or drugs, unlike other people that we seem to be reading about every day.
But Rosie really took great offense at it and she attacked me and I attacked her. And that began -- the ratings really increased, but also began Rosie's decline. And Rosie really did decline.
All she had to do, Larry, is finish out her time. She had another two or three weeks and she could have left in a much, much more opportune position for herself. But Rosie is self-destructive and ultimately, Rosie is a loser.
KING: Were you surprised by what Barbara said?
TRUMP: Well, Barbara, again is in a position where she's trying to make it look as good as possible. Obviously, it doesn't look very good. It's -- it was very surprising to me to see Elisabeth Hasselbeck, who is not the brightest bulb on the planet, seeing her beat Rosie so easily in the debate.
But as I've told you, Rosie is not a bright person. She is a very, very tough, disturbed person, but she's not a bright person. And I think Elisabeth Hasselbeck, who is not particularly bright either, really showed Rosie something. I mean I was a little surprised to see how easily Rosie was beaten by Elisabeth Hasselbeck.
KING: Let's watch Rosie on her blog discussing this whole matter and get your comment.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY ROSIE.COM)
O'DONNELL: And when I saw the split screen, that's when I knew it was over...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
O'DONNELL: Seriously. In the corner of my eye, in one of the monitors, I saw a split screen and I thought to myself, that is...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, people said it looked like Jerry Springer.
O'DONNELL: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you ever enjoy Elisabeth?
I love you and I hope to meet you.
I could say this, I never tried harder to be friends with someone than I did with her from the get go. But I don't think we ended up there or anywhere close. I think it's best that my last show is Monday's show.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
O'DONNELL: Because we taped it two weeks ago and it's Elisabeth's birthday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isn't it pod (UNINTELLIGIBLE), Mrs. Rushdie (ph)?
Isn't it her...
O'DONNELL: Oh, it's a little birthday show.
O'DONNELL: So it was a birthday show.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, wow. OK.
O'DONNELL: And that's when I said do you want to come stay at my house with Tim and -- the television -- no matter what, there is such a line between fake and real.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes.
O'DONNELL: I mean, you know, I think I'll...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But it's not mentioned (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in a way.
O'DONNELL: Well, "The View" -- what we brought to it that was different this year... (CROSSTALK)
O'DONNELL: ... what us, the four women did together was, we were pretty real. You know, Barbara and I had a fight. It involved Donald Trump.
Lots of drama.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was lots of drama.
O'DONNELL: We talked about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was lots of drama.
O'DONNELL: There was drama, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Donald, what's your reaction to that?
TRUMP: Well, it's the first time in the history of television somebody quit over being on a split screen. This is sort of a first. And, look, she just used that as an excuse. She couldn't take the heat. It was over for her.
Now, some idiot will hire her, put her on television. And she'll do well for about a month or two, and then just like her first show, she'll fail, because, ultimately, she's all about failure.
KING: You think someone will hire her, though?
TRUMP: Yes, I think somebody. I think this hurt her badly, though. All she had to do was sit back for three weeks and just go on the show, low key it if she could, and just get it over with. I think this hurt her very badly in terms even of a new show.
But somebody in this crazy business will hire her and she'll do well for a little while and then she'll fade, because you can only take Rosie in small doses.
KING: What happens to "The View?"
TRUMP: Well, depending on who they get. If they get the right person, it will do OK. And if they get the wrong person, it will be, you know, pretty bad.
If I look at Joy Behar, if you're going to rely on her, she's got absolutely no entertainment ability. She's got no anything.
I actually stayed -- I just got back from Mexico. I watched the Miss. -- I own the Miss. Universe pageant, and I was there last night in Mexico City. It was a great success. And I got back early in the morning. I turn on and "The View" is on. And I watched Joy Behar.
She has absolutely no talent, the most aggravating voice, the whole deal with her 25-year relationship with this one guy. I mean, if they have people like her, this thing won't last for a week. But they'll get somebody. Hopefully it will be somebody with some personality and it will continue to go. It'll do all right.
KING: Would Roseanne Barr fit that bill?
TRUMP: Maybe. I think she might be an attractive candidate for the job. I think there are probably a few attractive candidates for the job.
KING: Any circumstances under which you would guest on that show?
TRUMP: Oh, I know they would love me to, but I don't see it, Larry. I mean there's no reason. I'd much rather do your show.
KING: We'll take a break and be back with more with Donald Trump and lots of other -- a couple of other things to cover with him in our limited time.
Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE VIEW," COURTESY ABC)
O'DONNELL: Do you I think our troops are terrorists, Elisabeth?
HASSELBECK: I don't think that you...
O'DONNELL: Yes or no?
HASSELBECK: I don't think that...
O'DONNELL: Do you believe that, yes or no?
HASSELBECK: Excuse me...
O'DONNELL: I can understand how people might have...
HASSELBECK: I asked you...
O'DONNELL: ... have thought that. Why don't you take this opportunity, like I'm six.
HASSELBECK: Because you are an adult and I am certainly not...
O'DONNELL: So are you.
HASSELBECK: ... going to be the person for you to explain your thoughts. They're your thoughts. Defend your own insinuations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY ROSIE.COM)
O'DONNELL: And when I saw the split screen, that's when I knew it was over -- I could say this, I never tried harder to be friends with someone than I did with her from the get go. But I don't think we ended up there or anywhere close.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE VIEW," COURTESY ABC)
WALTERS: We will always be grateful to Rosie for her contribution this year. She's welcome to come back any time she wants and we hope that it will be often.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COMMERCIAL
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE VIEW," COURTESY ABC)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It began with jokes.
O'DONNELL: I don't want to say who sent me these beautiful flowers sitting in front of me, but it could be someone named Tom Cruise.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And ended in jabs.
O'DONNELL: I asked you if you believed what the Republican pundits were saying...
HASSELBECK: Did I say yes?
O'DONNELL: You said nothing and that's cowardly...
HASSELBECK: No, no, no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In just eight months, Rosie O'Donnell took "The View" to new ratings heights.
And who could forget her on-air war with Donald Trump?
O'DONNELL: This man is like sort of one of those, you know, snake oil salesmen. You see his hair looping going every one -- every one deserves a second chance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM LARRY KING LIVE)
TRUMP: Well, Rosie is a loser. She's always been a loser. Rosie is an extremely unattractive person. I mean this woman is a disgrace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We're back.
On a couple of other bases before we lose you, Donald, I know you're having a very busy day -- what do you make of this Lindsay Lohan matter?
TRUMP: Well, I think it's very sad. I thought she was over her difficulties or problems. But then you see her lying virtually in the gutter last night. And it's a very sad thing.
She's a nice person. I know her a little bit. She's a nice person.
When I hosted "Saturday Night Live," she was there and I got to meet her. And, you know, she's very sweet. And it's very sad to see what's happening to her. She's got to stop it quickly.
KING: She's also very talented.
TRUMP: She's very talented. She seems to be. And, you know, it's really a very sad case.
KING: You were at the Miss. Universe pageant. You own it. Miss. USA had an embarrassing incident, although she recovered pretty quickly.
(VIDEO CLIP FROM MISS. UNIVERSE PAGEANT)
KING: What did you make of that?
TRUMP: Well, it was embarrassing that she fell, but she handled it well. She got up. And this was a complete fall. This wasn't like a little slip. And so she was very embarrassed.
But what was more embarrassing, as I understand from her, was the fact that the crowd was booing her like crazy.
(VIDEO CLIP FROM MISS. UNIVERSE PAGEANT)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Next is USA.
(CROWD BOOS)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pick a judge (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
Yes. OK. Uno momento, por favor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And she thought it was her. But actually, they were booing, I'm quite sure, the policies of the United States government. I mean they were really booing. It was terrible. I've never seen anything like it.
(VIDEO CLIP FROM MISS. UNIVERSE PAGEANT)
RACHEL SMITH, MISS. USA: I would have to say I would go back to January of 2007 when I traveled to South Africa to volunteer in the Oprah Winfrey Leadership Academy for girls in South Africa.
(CROWD BOOS)
SMITH: I'm very passionate about education.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I've owned the pageant for 10 years. As you know, the pageant has gone, really, to new heights. It's doing great. NBC just renewed us for another four years. And it's doing really a fantastic job. And I've owned it for a while and I've never seen anything like it.
They were booing her. It was in Mexico City. They were booing her like I have never seen. And she took it very personally. And I told her, I said they're not booing you, they're booing the policies of our government, unfortunately.
KING: Policies that you've been very critical of.
A couple of other things.
Your ex-wife, Marla Maples, is now co-hosting a new show, "The Ex-Wives Club."
I think we're going -- we're going to feature some of it tomorrow night on this program.
What do you make of that?
TRUMP: Well, I spoke to Marla about it. As you know, she's not allowed to do it because we have a thing called an agreement. It's called a prenuptial agreement and she's not allowed to be doing that.
But I haven't seen it yet. If I look at it, I'll tell you whether or not I approve.
But she's a nice person. We have a very beautiful daughter. And Marla is a nice person. So I hope it's OK.
But she's absolutely not allowed to be doing it.
KING: Why?
TRUMP: Because it's in an agreement, like everything, Larry. It's in an agreement.
KING: What, that she can't go on television or she can't -- or what?
TRUMP: Well, she's not allowed to be discussing me.
KING: Oh.
TRUMP: And it seems that the show -- in the show, she's discussing me. So, hopefully it's fine. Hopefully she thinks I'm a wonderful person.
KING: A couple other things.
With "The Apprentice" ending, anything new for you on TV?
TRUMP: Well, NBC wants to do another season, a seventh season of "The Apprentice."
And, you know, I've had so much fun. It became the number one show on television. It's been terrific.
But, you know, the problem is NBC does have -- and I love the guys at NBC, but there's such turmoil with the management, with the lack of lead-ins. We had a lead-in this year of "Grease." The show was moved to four different slots. They should have just simply left it on Thursday, but they wanted to create a comedy Thursday.
So they took "The Apprentice," which was really a powerful show, and they put it all over the place. They thought it was easily moved because it's so successful that it would, you know, easily follow.
And despite that, it did very well. It won the evening, as you know, recently on the finale.
But I'm so busy doing other things. And, frankly, lead-in is a very important thing. You see "American Idol," when they have a lead- in of "American Idol," any show they put after it seems to do well.
KING: So will you do something else...
TRUMP: NBC just doesn't seem to have -- well, I'm looking at something else and other networks really want me to do something. But as you know, I'm one of the largest real estate developers in the world and that really is something that I love. So, we'll see what happens.
But a lot of networks want me to do something. I'll let you know over the next few weeks.
KING: And in that regard, Donald, what's the story on housing and interest rates in New York?
TRUMP: Well, the problem with housing -- and New York seems to be doing very well -- but you look at other cities, Chicago is just doing OK. L.A. is doing pretty good. But many cities are doing terribly. We have to bring back Alan Greenspan or something, because Ben Bernanke, who I don't know, the interest rates are too high.
And what he's going to do is kill the biggest industry in this country. Interest rates are too high. He has to get interest rates down and the housing market will pick up immediately. There's no reason for the interest rates to be where they are.
KING: Didn't he increase them, though, because of inflation fears? TRUMP: He did, but the big inflation is one thing. It's called fuel. It's called oil. And what they should do is come down hard on suppliers and companies having to do with fuel because that's really what is causing the problem. That's where the inflation is. And that's really easily solved, because other things can be going down.
The fact is interest rates are too high and it's going to kill the golden goose that really runs this country. Housing is the biggest industry in this country, if you add it all up. And they're killing it. They have to reduce interest rates.
KING: Donald, we'll call on you again.
Thank you so much, as always.
TRUMP: Thank you, Larry.
KING: Donald Trump from Trump Tower in New York.
You're watching LARRY KING LIVE.
We will be right back with lots more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE VIEW," COURTESY ABC)
O'DONNELL: Because here's how it gets spun in the media -- Rosie, big, fat, lesbian, loud, Rosie attacks innocent, pure Christian, Elisabeth.
(CROSSTALK)
O'DONNELL: And I'm not doing it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY ROSIE.COM)
O'DONNELL: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) THE VIEW and what we brought to it that was different this year...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really. Yes.
O'DONNELL: ... what us, the four women did it together. We were pretty real.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE VIEW," COURTESY ABC)
HASSELBECK: It's much easier to fight someone like Donald Trump, isn't it, because he's obnoxious?
O'DONNELL: I've never fought him. He fought me. I told a fact about him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did I get into this conversation? O'DONNELL: He didn't like the fact...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was in the middle of this conversation...
HASSELBECK: I gave you an opportunity...
O'DONNELL: You don't give me anything.
HASSELBECK: ... to (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COMMERCIAL
KING: We continue our reaction to the Rosie story with Debbie Matenopoulos, the co-host of E! Network's "Daily Ten" and the former co-host of "The View," from 1987 to 1999.
Tanika Ray, weekend co-host and correspondent for "Extra." And she guest co-hosted on "The View" shortly before Rosie joined the show and the unique history of that program.
All right, Debbie, what do you make of today's events?
DEBBIE MATENOPOULOS, FORMER CO-HOST, "THE VIEW: You know, what a lot of people seem to be missing is that whole fight that happened between Rosie and Elisabeth Hasselbeck was an amazing debate. And I think that's what made that show so amazing to begin with, and so ground-breaking, because here you have four women -- or five women at any given time -- that can sit and talk about politics, talk about the war in Iraq, talk about all kinds of things and really go at it. Because these are the kinds of discussions people have in America.
However, this, I don't think, was as much about the war and as much about political beliefs...
TANIKA RAY, "EXTRA" CORRESPONDENT: It was personal...
MATENOPOULOS: ... as it was about being personal, because Rosie felt like, at that moment, wait a second. This woman I've worked with for the last year didn't have my back. It was a betrayal in the sense of hold on, this isn't about do you like my political beliefs, this is you think I'm a despicable person. And I think you saw that on television. And her eyes began to well up...
KING: Are you siding here with Rosie?
MATENOPOULOS: I -- yes, in a way, I am siding with Rosie, because Rosie did not say our troops in Iraq are terrorists. That was not what she was saying.
KING: All right, Tanika, what's your read?
RAY: Well, I think it's so easy to twist people's words and make it sound like whatever way is going to justify your point of view.
Rosie did not say that troops were terrorists. She kept saying, Elisabeth, you have -- you know me. You know, my soul.
Why didn't you stick up for me?
Well, I'm -- you're an adult. You can talk for yourself. Well, she's been speaking for President Bush since Rosie got there. So, she was kind of contradicting herself and she had no basis to stand on. And Elisabeth kept diverting attention, diverting the situation and going to something else.
I think she was very, very unjustified in that situation.
MATENOPOULOS: I just think it was a simple yes or no.
RAY: It was.
MATENOPOULOS: Do you -- do you think I'm despicable?
RAY: Because it was a no.
MATENOPOULOS: That's what she was saying. And Elisabeth wouldn't say no, I don't think you're despicable, Rosie.
RAY: Because it was a no.
MATENOPOULOS: And I think that's hurtful. Yes.
RAY: Because I didn't have your back, because I do think you're just another Democrat, no matter how close we are.
KING: What happens to "The View," now, Debbie?
MATENOPOULOS: Who knows?
You know, they never really replaced Star when she left. But I -- I feel like when Rosie came along, they didn't have to, because it was such a splash.
But now Rosie is gone. Star is gone. And Whoopi was on today. She's amazing.
But who knows if Whoopi is going to want to sit there?
I mean I really, truly believe that -- I think if they want to do something as groundbreaking the first time around, 10 years ago, when they started the show, they need to do something different and they need to change it up. It's the 21st century. Hire a gay man. Because that's never been done before on a network television daytime show.
RAY: I think that's very interesting.
KING: That's an interesting thought.
RAY: Who's what?
KING: I said an interesting thought. RAY: I think it's a great point. I mean we've come to the point where we all -- we're all girlfriends now. We all have one guy that hangs out with us and goes shopping...
MATENOPOULOS: Yes.
RAY: ... and talks about women.
MATENOPOULOS: One?
RAY: So why not?
MATENOPOULOS: I feel you on that one.
RAY: I do think maybe they should start from scratch.
MATENOPOULOS: Yes.
RAY: Because this -- it's so mired in all this crap right now. They probably need to wipe the slate clean and start all over.
KING: Do you think the Roseanne Barr idea would be too gimmicky?
RAY: I don't know. I think ABC is so scared now. They're -- they're too skittish to go some place a little bit controversial...
MATENOPOULOS: Oh...
RAY: ... even though that's exactly what they need.
MATENOPOULOS: I don't know. I think they do need to go controversy.
RAY: But they're scared.
MATENOPOULOS: You can't replace Rosie O'Donnell. But Roseanne Barr would absolutely -- she'd shake things up.
KING: If Whoopi wanted to do it, would it be no question?
RAY: I don't feel that.
KING: A slam dunk?
RAY: I don't feel it.
MATENOPOULOS: Well, you know, I'm not sure Whoopi would want to do it.
RAY: Yes.
MATENOPOULOS: But if she would want to do it, I think the women would absolutely have her. Barbara would love to have her. Whoopi is amazing.
RAY: I would have Gayle King or somebody like that. KING: Why was the story so huge?
RAY: Because it was women.
KING: Trump started it, right?
RAY: Boom. Boom.
MATENOPOULOS: Oh, yes, of course, Donald Trump started it. Donald Trump, I think, was responsible for the big bang theory, as well. I mean...
RAY: He's responsible for everything.
MATENOPOULOS: ... as far as he is concerned, he's responsible for everything.
I mean he certainly is entertainment.
I think it was a big deal because I believe those discussions happen in this country and I believe when you talk about anything as touchy as the war, anything as touchy as politics...
RAY: Yes.
MATENOPOULOS: ... things get heated. And what's so unfortunate about this is whether Rosie left on Friday or Thursday or whether she left the 21st of June, I don't think there's a platform on daytime television where women can have those sort of open discussions the way they did and really, truly, honestly. Because Rosie was really what brought honesty to that show.
RAY: Absolutely.
MATENOPOULOS: And unless you make people feel uncomfortable, unless you rock the boat a little bit, there's going to be no change in this country. And that's really sad to me.
KING: Tanika, does it win any Emmys?
RAY: I think it will. I think there's so much buzz around it, I think it will win Emmys for just people being honest and forthright.
MATENOPOULOS: They should submit that show.
RAY: They should submit that very show. This is the downfall of Rosie O'Donnell.
But I think she was so brilliant on that show. And even though it sometimes was a little much, I mean, with all of the screaming back and forth...
MATENOPOULOS: Yes.
RAY: It still was great television.
KING: What's -- what, Debbie, is Elisabeth's future?
MATENOPOULOS: Well, I think she should be thanking...
KING: Does she get her own show? MATENOPOULOS: I think she should be thanking...
RAY: No.
MATENOPOULOS: ... Rosie O'Donnell. I think the two of them should do a show together, honestly. And I think she should be thanking Rosie. Because before Rosie got there, Elisabeth was meeker. She was quieter. She really didn't -- she got shut down a lot by the other women.
KING: She didn't blossom.
MATENOPOULOS: She didn't blossom. And Rosie forced her to stand up for herself, forced her to grow a backbone and forced her to say no, this is who I am and I believe in this.
KING: Donald...
MATENOPOULOS: I really...
KING: Donald said, Tanika, that Rosie is going to get offered another show.
Do you think so.
RAY: Oh, of course she is. I think Rosie is good TV. I think that was going to happen when she first got on board with "The View." And for Trump to have her back, by god, that's interesting. I guess he loves that this happened, because he predicted it, what, six months ago when they had their war of words.
But, again, he is to be acknowledged for the success of "The View."
MATENOPOULOS: Right.
RAY: It all happens like that.
She will get her own show, absolutely. I think somebody will snap her up in a heart beat. She's great TV.
KING: It's weird in away, the whole thing is.
RAY: Yes. It's so odd.
KING: What are there, two openings now?
MATENOPOULOS: Two openings.
RAY: But this is the story...
MATENOPOULOS: There are two. RAY: ... for why they hadn't replaced Star yet, because they wanted Rosie to get in and really get comfortable and then they were going to replace the Star position later. But now that you have two out, I don't know about the future.
I think Barbara is trying to spend more time away from "The View."
MATENOPOULOS: But I think that's exactly why you have to go -- you have to make another sort of splash and you have to hire somebody who's going to be very controversial.
RAY: What about unknowns?
MATENOPOULOS: Sure, why not?
RAY: Barbara and Bill create stars. They don't hire stars. they make you stars.
MATENOPOULOS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). OK.
KING: Thanks, again, Debbie.
MATENOPOULOS: Thank you, Larry.
KING: Tanika remains...
RAY: Yes.
KING: ... as we switch topics.
Up next, the other story that has people talking tonight, 20- year-old Lindsay Lohan's weekend DUI bust and her trip back to rehab. Stick around.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDSAY LOHAN: I don't want to be known for what club I'm (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE VIEW," COURTESY ABC)
O'DONNELL: It's just sad to me that when your daughter is obviously struggling with some addiction issues, the mother is posing with champagne in the back of "Vanity Fair" and doing interviews on the red carpet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANE FONDA: This isn't a dress rehearsal. This is it, yes.
KING: Yes. FONDA: This is real life and if you blow it, you don't always have a second chance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE. Tanika Ray, the weekend co-host and correspondent for "Extra" remains with us. Joining us here in Los Angeles is Michael Fleeman. Michael is the West Coast editor of People.com and in Tampa, Florida, Kevin Nixon, the national executive director of Intervention 911.
Michael Fleeman, what's your read on Lindsay Lohan?
MICHAEL FLEEMAN, WEST COAST EDITOR, PEOPLE.COM: Well, it is heartbreaking. It's a story, as you know, as old as Hollywood, this enormously talented young woman succumbing to drugs, having to go into rehab, putting her career on the precipice. It's heartbreaking.
KING: Kevin, in a sense, by checking back in has she done her own intervention?
KEVIN NIXON, NATIONAL EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, INTERVENTION911.COM: It's too early to tell, Larry. In regards to this time it's going to be really the tell all tale here.
KING: Meaning?
NIXON: Meaning that I believe last time when she did this, this is a lifelong journey, recovery. It's not in treatment and then out of treatment and on with life. It's about getting a true life, not just in and out. It's about getting the tools, emotionally, mentally, the tools that she needs to deal with life.
KING: So she's going to have to work on this all of her life?
NIXON: Yes, sir.
KING: What's your response to that, Tanika?
RAY: I mean, yes, she has drug and alcohol problems.
KING: She's an addictive person.
RAY: She's a child who has no supervision, that has too much money to play with. And when a child...
KING: A talented child.
RAY: Very talented when she was -- yes, I remember watching when she was 12 or 13, "Parent Trap" going this girl is great. Oh, my God, I can't wait to see when she's 25. Unfortunately, a mother that practically endorses her partying. Her mom came out a couple months ago and said, "Lindsay is fine, she's great, she's just a little exhausted from all of her work." The first time she went to rehab, she didn't take it seriously. It was a 30-day vacation where she could get away from the paparazzi, hang out with her friend and stay in the sun. And she left after 30 days. You're 20, 19 years old, that's not enough time to really sort your life out.
Her mother practically parties with her, Larry. It's really embarrassing. Her mom pretty much should be brought up on charges as far as I'm concerned.
KING: Isn't the general thinking, Michael, that you're kind of born addicted, in a sense that you have an addictive personality, you will be addicted to something?
FLEEMAN: But for the fame and the talent this is unfortunately an all-too-common story. We just know about it because she's famous, because she's followed by the paparazzi. I think the difference with her in addition to being famous is that she's surrounded by people who may not be looking out for her best interests.
RAY: The yes people.
FLEEMAN: The people who are working for her. She is paying her friends. Of course, they're not going to confront her. Of course, there's not going to be tough love and that's the problem when you're famous and you're facing very human problems.
KING: Kevin, how does she get better?
NIXON: Not being in denial, and I believe she's still in denial. I think she's, you know, back in treatment. But there's a couple -- Tanika and Michael brought up some good points. And Larry, she has the ability to help millions of young ladies that are looking up to her and her actions, not only her but other young starlets in Hollywood, the industry has to change. It really does through professional interventions, like Intervention911 and holding her accountable. Tough love, ultimatums, they do not work. Boundaries, accountability that does work.
Her family, and as Michael and Tanika said, these people can be hired and fired. With her DUI arrest, you know, the courts in California have a wonderful program called Drug Court and that could be an opportunity with her lawyer, who took her to rehab today, to really step aside in a neutral position, not as a starlet but as a human being and say, let's get you better.
KING: Michael, she previously spent time at Wonderland rapidly getting famous. Do you think she's back there?
FLEEMAN: No, I don't. We're not reporting where she is.
KING: Why?
FLEEMAN: Well, it's premature right now. We know she's in a different place. We know it's going to be a different program this time. Her own publicist says this is a medical matter. They're using much harsher language than they had used before. They sort of downplayed it last time. She certainly downplayed it. She came out of Wonderland saying, "I don't feel like I have an addiction." So I think she's getting a tougher, more comprehensive treatment this time.
KING: What do you think, Tanika?
RAY: I don't know. I mean I'm trying to think why she's taking it seriously this time because her mom and her dad certainly aren't. Her dad now is coming out saying there's a problem and her mother should be accountable for it and somebody should talk to her mom. Her mom parties with her. There's a problem there.
Lindsay needs to slow down and the Parises and the Britneys. It's not a coincidence they're all crashing and burning. There's something about there, the fact that their parents are making money off of them. There's a sick and twisted cycle. The more jacked up they are, the more sponsors come and make them the stars of their advertising, the more they're hired for movies because there's buzz around them. Look at Kate Moss.
Yes, I thought when Anna Nicole passed way; they'd all go wake up call. But I forgot Anna is not really in their circle. They all look to Kate Moss. And what happened to Kate Moss, she was busted for actually snorting coke. She became more famous and got more money and got more endorsements. So who's saying that it's wrong?
KING: Is Lindsay Lohan more famous today than yesterday?
RAY: I think so.
KING: We'll take a break and come back. And when we come back, we'll have a statement issued from the Lohan camp. We'll have more with our panel when we come back.
A little later, Mark Geragos will be here to talk about the legal future of Miss Lohan. As we go to break, Lindsay's dad talks about his daughter's latest problems.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've been saying this all along. It just really bothers me that too many around Lindsay because of what they can get from her instead of Lindsay herself and caring about her. She's not just a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) billionaire; she's a child, a human being. And people just have their own motives and intentions. I'm just tired of it. I really am.
All the deception and the lies have just compounded and they just -- they're snowballing. And this was inevitable. And it's going to continue until people right their wrongs instead of compounding them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN SEACREST, GUEST HOST, LARRY KING LIVE: What was the first day like when you show up in this facility and you realize this is the first day of your new life?
NICOLE RICHIE, ACTRESS: Well, the first few days actually I don't really remember just because they were so horrible. But you know I mean you get really sick. And it's scary when I think back on how physically ill I was just because I did not have everything in me that I used to have in me. And the fact that I was taking something that was so powerful that I became physically addicted to it is really scary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: That was Ryan Seacrest hosting the program with Nicole Richie.
Here's a statement issued from the Lindsay Lohan camp today: "Lindsay admitted herself to an intensive medical rehab facility on Memorial Day. Because this is a medical matter, it is our hope that the press will appreciate the seriousness of the situation and respect the privacy of Lindsay as well as the other patients who are receiving treatment at the facility." There will be no other official comments regarding this issue.
Tyra Banks, the talk show host, has recently visited one famous rehab center, Promises, which is rumored to be the place where Lindsay is -- watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TYRA BANKS, TALK SHOW HOST: I want you to take me through as if I'm checking in and just exactly how you do everybody, no special treatment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Frankly, we try to treat everyone as if they are the same.
BANKS: OK, so where do we go, this way?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, let's go down to our office.
BANKS: Are people very nervous at this point when they're checking in?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're usually very scared. They're letting go of, you know, many of the familiar pieces they had out there even if they are distracted.
BANKS: Do they ever come in high or drunk?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Frequently.
BANKS: They do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most people can't clean up before the maid gets there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is our kitchen. And as we walk through, you can see the chef.
BANKS: It looks like some good stuff. I just saw some chips in there, cookies. Do people gain weight when they come here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Generally they do, actually. However, a lot of people need to gain weight when they come here.
BANKS: Over the next few hours, Richard showed me around the rest of the facility where so many famous people have struggled with addiction. Some have spent their darkest hour in this beautiful place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: And Michael, they're reporting, some sources, that it is Promises.
FLEEMAN: That, of course, is where Britney Spears went through her rehab.
KING: Can you confirm that?
FLEEMAN: I can't confirm it.
KING: Your com site is quoting a source close to Lohan as saying, "I think she'll have to do a real rehab this time not a Hollywood rehab." What's the difference?
FLEEMAN: A real rehab means she's going to have to reach rook bottom this time. She's going to have to come out a different person. I think this time her career is much more at stake than it was last time. She's supposed to be filming a movie the day after tomorrow. That is in complete shambles right now.
And I think the greatest sin in Hollywood is to cost other people money and she's costing other people money right now.
KING: Kevin, is it tougher on a celebrity in a rehab place than a non celebrity?
NIXON: The pressure of the media with the individual, because there's so many eyes watching. But, Larry, I talked so many mothers across this country with daughters just like Lindsay.
In talking about a bottom, she's hitting a bottom right now. It's a legal bottom. You know emotionally she's hit the bottom several different times. But what needs to happen here and being in treatment versus rehab, rehab, that was what she did last time. Treatment means long term, 30, 60, 90 days, and then sober life coaches, what we at Intervention911 after treatment implement for America's families every day, the mothers, the fathers that I talk to, every day in this country, with daughters just like Lindsay.
KING: Tanika, are you encouraged?
RAY: I'm not sure yet. KING: I mean to be optimistic about?
RAY: Well, she's going to have to change her life after she comes out of rehab. That's not what she did last time. She got out of rehab, went to the same parties and hung out with the same people. You can't do that once you come out of rehab. That's not being better. That's not moving on and progressing in your life.
If she's going to really change, I'll be encouraged when I see her, not party all the time, get focused on her work, go to a library and read a book. The girl hasn't finished high school. Or maybe she did but I don't think she studied very hard. You know learn about herself. Self-enlightenment is probably the way that she needs to go this time.
KING: We're going to take a break. Mark Geragos, the famed lawyer, will be joining us. When we come back, Mark Geragos will join us. As we go to break, Britney Spears talks about Lindsay Lohan's arrest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any advice for Lindsay Lohan?
BRITNEY SPEARS, MUSICIAN: What's he saying?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any advice for Lindsay Lohan?
SPEARS: I didn't hear you. No, I just hope she's OK. I saw her car was messed up. That's scary, but...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: What's your read on Lindsay?
JANE FONDA, ACTRESS: She turned 20 on this movie. Lest we forget, this is a very young person who's had a very difficult life, who has been famous since she was 12. And being famous now is not like when I was young, the scrutiny, the paparazzi, the every move you make, you know, she's in a really difficult situation. And she handles it -- I think she handles it really well.
I don't know about her private life. All I know is that when she showed up for work, she was totally brilliant. And for most of the time when I was working with her, she was on time. There were one or two days she was late and I got mad at her. I went into her trailer and told her to get her ass on the set and left. And she said to her makeup person, "Barbarella just yelled at me." She's got a sense of humor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We now welcome Mark Geragos to our panel, the well-known defense attorney who has had many celebrity clients.
Lindsay was arrested on suspicion DUI Saturday. Police say investigators found a usable amount of a drug tentatively identified as cocaine. How much legal trouble is she in?
MARK GERAGOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Not a whole lot.
KING: No?
GERAGOS: No, she really isn't. One of the reasons that she goes into the rehab besides trying to get better is the people around her thinks that she needs to, is generally when there's an accident, they're going to ask for some minimal amount of jail time. So in lieu of that going to rehab and that solves that problem. It's not like she's got a world of hurt here. I mean she's got bigger issues, it would appear, that she does from the legal sense.
KING: So if she were your client, you would recommend rehab for two reasons then?
GERAGOS: Yes. If she's my client, I'd put her into exactly what she's done, check her in immediately.
There is -- it's interesting, we've talked about before the difference between Hollywood rehab and other people call "other" or real rehab. To some degree, there's some truth in that but it isn't necessarily Hollywood versus anything else.
I found, at least, over 25 years, that generally these 28, 30-day programs with Reggie Jackson, what is called drive-thru rehab, generally do not take. You really need to -- there's places out there that go nine months or a year. And that generally -- for somebody to shake whatever the demons are, you've got to take them apart and put them back together again. And that's really -- if you want to do something significant, that's really where you have to go.
KING: Kevin Nixon, comment on what he said?
NIXON: Good for you, Mark. And Mark, as a defense attorney in this situation, wouldn't you encourage your client, if it was a client in this particular situation, to encourage her, yes, treatment, not to get out of the legal end of it -- this is what needs to change, and my fear is that part of this is, you know, motivated by her upcoming...
KING: I've got time limitations, Kevin, so I get where you're going. Is this a scapegoat?
GERAGOS: Well, there's all kinds of things that are really going on here. I mean first of all, you have to understand. She is, as Jane Fonda said, she's 20 years old. Anybody who has been around -- I've got a teenage daughter. She hopefully does not have all of these issues but teenage women have a lot of issues just like teenage boys. And when you magnify it with this kind of attention, it's a problem. Then you've got the legal system. Then you've got -- surrounding that, you've got the entourage of the five and ten percenters, which are the people who will have a vested interest in making sure that she works. So you've got a lot of -- she's got a lot of masters that she has to deal with.
KING: Has he got a point?
FLEEMAN: Yes, obviously. I mean she is a girl still. She never even maybe had a chance to be a girl. She was famous when she was in "The Parent Trap" at 12 and now she is a mini industry, keeping a lot of people employed. There's enormous pressure for her to continue.
KING: Will the odds be against her?
FLEEMAN: I think the odds now are, but she has a lot of time left.
KING: Tanika?
RAY: She needs to go away. She needs to go away for eight months to a year, go to rehab...
KING: Like Kevin said?
RAY: Yes. Everybody's off payroll, she picks a new team when she comes back. But if she's really serious about recuperating, she needs to stop all the -- but she owes a lot of money and a lot of people aren't going to be happy.
KING: The courts will be lenient in that regard, Mark?
GERAGOS: The court is going to understand. I mean she's obviously got a problem. The fact that she's famous is there will be a lot of scrutiny. It's going to be like we talked about before. She's a celebrity. She's not going to get treated differently but God save her from being treated the same.
KING: Thank you all very much. Thanks for dropping by, Mark, your shortest appearance ever...
GERAGOS: Yes, I know, but I appreciate it though.
KING: You appreciate that.
Up next, a horrific Texas homicide that has people thinking all over again about the Andrea Yates case. Andrea's ex-husband will join us to talk about it right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Welcome back. Earlier this morning 25-year-old Gilberta Estrada of Hudson Oaks, Texas was found hanged in her trailer home along with her four children ranging in age from 8 months to 5 years. Gilberta and the three oldest children were pronounced dead. The 8- month-old somehow survived. Here to talk about that story in Houston is Rusty Yates. His wife, Andrea, drowned their five children in the family's bathtub. Her murder conviction, by the way, was overturned and later found not guilty by reason of insanity.
In Parker County, Texas is Kaushal Patel. She is the reporter for Dallas/Fort Worth's KT-TV channel 1. And also in Parker County, Larry Fowler, the sheriff of Parker County where the apparent murder/suicide happened.
What's the latest, Kaushal?
KAUSHAL PATEL, CBS-11TV REPORTER: Well, the latest is, Larry, that it hasn't been ruled a murder/suicide. The sheriff's department tells us tonight that the toxicology reports and other reports will be coming in tomorrow.
But as you can imagine, this happened early this morning and all of the friends and family and relatives are just finding out about it. There are probably three to four dozen family and friends over at the house just in shock and disbelief, just in tears. They said she was such a happy woman. She never seemed depressed. She loved her kids.
We did find out -- I did talk to a family friend today that said that one of her ex-husbands, she has two fathers of the four kids, as we understand, but one of the ex-husbands was very abusive to her and her kids. So that's some of the information that we found out.
KING: Larry, we understand that it was considered definitely murder/suicide because all of the doors were locked so no one could have gotten in, is that correct?
SHERIFF LARRY FOWLER, PARKER COUNTY, TEXAS: Well, that's the way we're seeing it right now, Larry. I mean it was a horrendous scene this morning. The deputies -- the first deputies who arrived on the scene and, of course, this is what they were confronted with. We're not really ready yet to say definitively that it is a murder/suicide. As your reporter said, we're waiting on tests tomorrow from the county medical examiner's office.
KING: Rusty Yates, you had to live through something like this, almost exactly like this, except your wife didn't kill herself. What's your read?
RUSSELL YATES, WIFE ANDREA DROWNED THEIR CHILDREN: Well, I mean, it has the appearances of a, you know, similar case. I mean the child was very young. I think, at least, I read where somebody reported she had been depressed. You know the very nature of the crime is, you know, kind of insane. So you know we'll have to wait and see, you know, what the sheriff comes up with. But, you know, on the surface, it kind of looks like yet another bad Texas case.
KING: Can we ever really understand it?
YATES: Well, I mean if you put it in the context of psychosis, possibly. You know we have to find out more about her family history and her own medical history to see. But you know if her reality changed to the point where she thought she was saving her children, that's an explanation. I don't know that we could ever prove that.
KING: Kaushal, did you say your report was that she was not depressed?
PATEL: She wasn't depressed but we understand that she was going through some very tough economic times. Her kids, who are American citizens, were lacking vaccinations. She needed health care that she wasn't getting. She tried to get federal aid but was denied. And she was also denied getting child support from one of the ex-husbands. There was a court case filed in Parker County but she was denied child support. So obviously, she was going through some economic tough times.
She was supposed to show up to work at Wendy's this morning at 6:00 a.m. When she didn't show up, her sister went to the house and that's where the gruesome discovery was made.
KING: I'm sorry we have such limited time. We're going to devote a lot more time to this in nights ahead and we'll have a further report from Larry Fowler tomorrow.
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