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Nancy Grace
California Investigates Lohan Pre-Crash Drinking/Video Catches Mom Snorting Heroin in Wal-Mart
Aired May 30, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: Caught on video, a young and beautiful Long Island mom caught on video snorting heroin at a local Wal-Mart, and to make it worse, while pushing her 3-year-old in the shopping cart, watching. The defense? She snorted horse because she ran out of Vicodin. OK, that`ll work.
And tonight: Music icon Michael Jackson beat the rap on child molestation, now making VIP appearances across the globe to the tune of millions. But tonight, a warehouse full of Jackson memorabilia on the auction block, millions in sales expected, from Jackson`s stage costume in "Thriller" and platinum records to bulletproof vests, dirty underwear and tubes of bleaching cream. How did one of the most famous families in music history lose control of prize possessions? And who gets all the money? Not Jackson, although, apparently, he needs it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two trucks, around 30 people, unloading nearly 2,000 items, items that once belonged to Michael Jackson and the rest of his talented singing family, gold and platinum albums and shoes. If you bid the highest price, anything crammed inside this room at the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino can be yours.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s an extraordinary body of material. In sheer volume, it`s probably as large, if not larger, than other collections that we`ve ever had.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From the 1960s with the Jackson Five to Michael`s solo success, the auction brings you up close and personal to the entire Jackson family. The auction is sure to draw the curious and the fanatics.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, I don`t know. See this? That`s somebody`s white briefs that were soiled, right here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Calvin Klein underwear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know whose they are, and I`m not about to find out. But they`re soiled.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How big are they?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know, and I don`t want to know!
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you mind if I check?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re size 28.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, they`re not mine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Henry, you know...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re not mine!
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... that might have some DNA on it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It probably does.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. We go live. Caught on video, a brazen mom snorts heroin at a Long Island Wal-Mart, her 3-year-old watching from the shopping buggy.
But first, breaking news in the investigation now surrounding DUI and cocaine allegations against megastar Lindsay Lohan. Straight out to David Caplan with VH-1. What happened now?
DAVID CAPLAN, VH-1: Well, California`s Department of Alcohol and Beverage Control has contacted the Beverly Hills police, which arrested Lindsay Lohan early Saturday morning for DUI. And they`ve contacted Beverly Hills police because they want to review witness reports from the crash because they want to see if Lindsay Lohan was served at the Les Deux restaurant, where Lindsay was until 3:30 in the morning, just two hours before she crashed her car.
GRACE: Now, I understand that Les Deux nightclub has given a statement. Are you familiar with that, David Caplan?
CAPLAN: Yes. Les Deux has said it`s a restaurant, that Lindsay Lohan was there, and that`s perfectly allowed, and that she was not drinking while she was there.
GRACE: You know, it`s interesting, it says it`s a restaurant open five nights a week, but wasn`t she there at 3:30 AM? And isn`t there a photo of her coming out on the sidewalk and -- let`s see, what`s the legal term -- puking?
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: Now, I don`t know if they want -- what do they want? They don`t want to be known as serving alcohol to underage, but do they want to be known for puking after eating at 3:30 AM? I mean, which way do you go with that, David Caplan?
(LAUGHTER)
CAPLAN: Well, the reason they`re saying that she left at 3:30, which is an hour-and-a-half -- you know, bars close in California, which is 2:00 AM -- is because she was hanging out with her friends, was waiting for them to pack up deejay equipment. And the interesting thing, though, Les Deux is a restaurant, but it does have a dance floor. So Les Deux`s statement is making it sound, Oh, it`s just a restaurant, but it`s also sort of half nightclub. It`s a bit of a hybrid.
GRACE: OK, out to you, Mike Brooks, former D.C. cop, former fed with the FBI. How do you go about making stings on bars?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Happens all the time, Nancy. What you do is you get some kids who are somewhere between 17 and 21. You can get some recruits, some cadets, like most police departments have now, take them out, take them inside, let them sit at the bar and see if they get ID`d. Very, very simple.
You know, because she`s not 21 yet, are they asking her for any? Or any of these bars in West Hollywood along Sunset Boulevard, are they asking her for ID? If they`re not, then the California ABC board -- and keep in mind, Nancy, they only have four investigators for the ABC board for the whole city of Los Angeles, which I find is not very many. We used to have a lot more than that in Washington, D.C., and they have a lot more than that here in Georgia.
But they need to get their act together. And the Beverly Hills police, you know, they also -- by law, they`re allowed to go into any ABC establishment and check their license and see if anybody`s underage at any time.
GRACE: But the reality is that, of course, they`re going to check the police cadets. They check everybody, but apparently, these megastars.
BROOKS: That`s true. And you know, how do you go about doing this? Do you get one of these megastars to flip and get them to go in? I seriously doubt that.
GRACE: Yes, good luck.
BREMNER: Yes, exactly. Good luck with that.
GRACE: Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Lindsay Lohan slumped over in a car, mouth wide open, just 48 hours after her DUI arrest. And almost unbelievably, as she sat there passed out, her tokens hailing her sobriety from her stint in rehab hang in front of her face, a scary sight, especially when you see what she looked like just moments before.
"SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" obtained these pictures taken Monday around 4:00 in the morning. That`s Lindsay, slumped to the ground, a bouncer trying to help her to her feet. Lindsay, who`s only 20 and still under the legal drinking age, eventually made it to her friend`s car. The night seemed to have gotten out of control, but "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" can tell you that was just the tail end of what was a very wild weekend.
Lohan was arrested on Saturday after police say she crashed her Mercedes convertible into a curb at 5:30 in the morning. Police say Lindsay and two friends ran away from the scene of the accident, Lindsay`s third car accident in the past two years. Cops found them at the hospital, where Lohan was being treated for minor injuries to her chest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Of course, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" will have more on the story at 11:00 PM Eastern.
I want to go out to Dr. Marty MacKary with public health, Johns Hopkins. Question. What is she going through right now if she is addicted? And what role do these bars play that allegedly are serving her?
DR. MARTY MACKARY, PHYSICIAN: Well, certainly, there`s a culture which promotes alcohol abuse in many ways. People are hit with this in the media, in movies, in television shows and commercials, ads. Everywhere you go, it glamorizes alcohol use, associates it with sexiness, machismo. And we`re surprised like something like this happens again and again. There`s incredible humiliation somebody goes through, regret, and it almost seems as if memory can be short after a matter of time. So it`s really the local culture which influences somebody`s recurrence rate.
GRACE: You know, I don`t know so much about that humiliation factor because, apparently, after her DUI, she laughed and said, They`re not going to do anything to me.
Out to the lines. To Diana in Indiana. Hi, Diana.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you, Nancy?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now that the police are going after the Club Les Deux, what are they going to do about the other clubs that have served her alcohol and got her drunk all the other times, like in the past?
GRACE: Well, Diana, I`m sure they`ll burn that bridge when they get there. Right now, they haven`t even gotten Club Les Deux on the stick.
Out to you, Renee Rockwell, Mickey Sherman and Sue Moss, our lawyers joining us tonight. Out to you, Mickey Sherman. How do you catch a club? Because now they`re on full alert that the police are watching them.
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s not going to happen. And nothing`s going to happen to the clubs unless there`s a tragedy. And this is not that kind of a tragedy. You know, if you close down all the trendy hotspots on Sunset in LA, you know, it doesn`t mean that Lindsay Lohan or anybody else is not going to be able to get booze anyplace else.
You know, we`re kind of looking at the wrong problem here. The problem is alcoholism. It affects the rich, it affects the poor, the famous, the talented, anybody. It`s a disease, and that`s what you should be talking about.
GRACE: So clubs serving underage, that`s not a problem to you, Mickey.
SHERMAN: No. You know why? Because it`s going to happen anywhere. People are going to serve people...
GRACE: Really?
SHERMAN: ... what they want...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Well, why don`t we just give up on cocaine and heroin and porn, too? That`s going to happen everywhere. Why don`t we just take in all the red lights, too?
SHERMAN: Well...
GRACE: People are going to run them all the time.
SHERMAN: I`ve never seen anybody kill somebody while under the influence of cocaine or heroin and driving. But drinking is a different matter.
GRACE: I`ve seen people killed when they run through red lights.
SHERMAN: Not with the statistics you see in DWI cases.
GRACE: Statistics...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Renee, weigh in.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, do you think these people care about getting a fine, a $3,000 fine...
GRACE: No.
ROCKWELL: -- for violating that?
GRACE: No.
ROCKWELL: And then these are celebrities that maybe get...
GRACE: Wa! Wa! Wa! Wa! Wa!
ROCKWELL: ... paid $100,000 to be at a party.
GRACE: That`s a compound question. I believe you know what that means. You are a trial lawyer. First, no, I don`t think they care about a $3,000 fine. But Mike Brooks, I think they do care about having their liquor license pulled.
BROOKS: Absolutely, because that`s how they make their money. They don`t make their money off their great food, I can tell you that. And you know, and what they need to crack down on -- because anyone, even if they want to try to enforce this, it`s these VIP rooms that they go back and they`re away from the public, and that`s where they`re served the booze, out of the public`s eye. No one gets -- no one sees it.
GRACE: Out to you, Sue Moss. Weigh in.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: I believe that Les Deux is "les lying." This is outrageous. Young Hollywood does put these clubs on the map, and it is only presumptuous -- and it`s probably correct that when they ask for alcohol, these clubs just don`t say no.
GRACE: You know, I think the only way that it can be done, Dr. Jeff Gardere, is not just send in cadets because they`re going to be checked. Their ID is going to be checked. You can smell a cop a mile away. You can look at their shoes, you know they`re a cop. But I think the cops have to look around and see who is there. What role do these bars play in continued behavior like Lohan`s?
JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST: Exactly. They need to be there, and they need to be there consistently, not just going in and doing a raid or doing something undercover and then getting the heck out of there. They need to be there night after night, have some much younger cops who are there, who`s seeing what`s going on, what`s the culture, what`s happening with these young people, who are the ones, as you call that legal term, going out there and puking on the sidewalks? That gives you much more information as to where they need to focus a lot of their work.
GRACE: OK, that`s the latest on the Lindsay Lohan story. Apparently, the police responding now, apparently going forward with undercover stings of local clubs. Watch out, Club Les Deux. Hold onto that liquor license, friend, because if she`s puking on the sidewalk after eating there, you`re not going to make a profit on your food, OK?
Let`s switch stories tonight. Believe it or not, caught on video, a young and beautiful Long Island mom caught on video at the local Wal-Mart snorting up heroin. To make matters worse, right there on the buggy, her 3-year-old, watching Mommy snort up. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say Stacy Roe was pushing her 3-year-old son in a shopping cart inside the Wal-Mart when a security guard saw her snorting something through a straw. Cops say when they confronted Roe, she admitted she had just snorted heroin. And the cops say the incident was caught on store surveillance videotape.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s go straight out to Heather Nan (ph) Collins joining us, with "The Journal-Inquirer." What happened?
HEATHER COLLINS, "JOURNAL-INQUIRER": Well, Nancy, apparently, Stacy Roe got a little more than she bargained for at Wal-Mart. She did have her son with her. This was about a little bit after 6:00 PM. And I don`t know what she was thinking. She had her 3-year-old with her, pushing him in the cart. And the security guards noticed something unusual. They called cops. They didn`t want to get involved. The cops came. They looked at the surveillance and saw that she was, in fact, snorting something, a, quote, "unknown substance" through the straw. The cops approached her. She was calm. And sure enough, they say she admitted she was snorting the opiate. And in fact, she had some more on her, and they did recover a plastic small plastic baggie from her wallet with -- apparently, with heroin in it. She was cooperative. She was taken into custody and...
GRACE: Well, I guess she was. She was on a horsey high. She had just snorted up heroin, according to her. I`m sure she`s very compliant. I`m surprised she didn`t just lay down right there on the floor and tell them anything they wanted to know.
COLLINS: Well, she told them that she had it in her wallet, so she was cooperative. They took her downtown, they booked her, and she was charged with two class A misdemeanors, one endangering the welfare of her child and criminal possession of a controlled substance in the seventh degree. Each -- maximum penalty for each is up to a year in jail and a fine of up to $1,000.
GRACE: You know, I`m very, very surprised that heroin is a misdemeanor. I want to go out to a special guest joining us tonight, Lieutenant Michael Murphy. He is with the Suffolk County Police Department. He commands the unit that made the arrest. Lieutenant, thank you for being with us.
LT. MICHAEL MURPHY, SUFFOLK COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT: Thank you.
GRACE: Lieutenant, I did not realize that in any jurisdiction heroin could be a misdemeanor. Is it because of the amount of the heroin?
MURPHY: Yes. There was a small amount in her possession.
GRACE: And is it true -- and I`m sure this is going to be in a public document. Is it true that her excuse was she couldn`t get her hands on Vicodin anymore?
MURPHY: I haven`t seen that quote directed to her, but if it is in a public document, we will see it shortly.
GRACE: What exactly was observed before police were called in, Lieutenant?
MURPHY: The security guards were looking for anyone shoplifting, and they noticed the woman take a plastic straw, dip it into her hand and then bring it up to her nose and start snorting it. At that point, they called us, and my officers responded.
GRACE: It`s actually on video, Lieutenant?
MURPHY: Yes, it was.
GRACE: What was the kid doing during all this?
MURPHY: He was sitting in the cart. She was there to buy him a train set, and he was excited about his train set.
GRACE: Lieutenant, did she drive herself to the local Wal-Mart, and in other words, would be driving herself home under the influence of heroin?
MURPHY: We believe she did drive there and that was her intention. That was what my officers were most concerned about, making sure she didn`t drive home under the influence.
GRACE: Out to you, Jeff Gardere, psychologist and author. What are the results, what are the side effects of heroin?
GARDERE: Well, usually, the person who takes heroin for the first time, they become very, very sick. But once their system gets used to it, they have something that`s...
GRACE: Hey, Jeff, Jeff...
GARDERE: Yes?
GRACE: ... Jeff, no offense, but if you`re taking it out of your pocketbook at the Wal-Mart, I don`t think it`s your first time.
GARDERE: Well, yes. Obviously, it was not her first time. But what happens is, you become very euphoric, very lethargic, and you certainly lose all reason and start doing inappropriate things, as we saw here, shopping, doing this with her child right in front of her. So certainly, it`s very, very, very bad news.
GRACE: Very quickly -- we`ll all be right back -- to tonight`s "Case Alert." The suspect in the vicious beating of a 91-year-old Army veteran caught on video -- he is now set to stand trial August 20, Detroit, 22- year-old Deonte Bradley (ph) facing charges of beating a World War II vet outside a convenience store. Grainy surveillance video catches Bradley in the act of beating Sims about the head and the face 21 times, then stealing the old man`s car, the senior beaten so severely, he suffers permanent hearing damage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give as much time as is possible to give for what he did for no reason other than steal my car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thirty-five-year-old Stacy Roe had some explaining to do Saturday night after police say she was caught using a straw to snort heroin in the middle of Wal-Mart. A security guard was watching and recording her from a ceiling surveillance camera around 6:00 o`clock. He saw what she was doing and that her 3-year-old son was in the cart right in front of her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, it just makes you think what goes through people`s minds? What kind of people are out there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Mommy snorting heroin at the local Wal-Mart. To make matters worse, her 3-year-old child right there in the buggy in front of her, looking up at his mom. Only an eagle-eyed security guard witnessed it, caught on video, according to sources. Police came in. And tonight, where is she, Art Harris? Is she out on bond?
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: ... Nancy. It only cost her $100 to get out on her own recognizance. She got a ticket. She`s supposed to appear in Central Islip district court July 17.
GRACE: That`s a pretty -- pretty much of a bargain deal, $100?
HARRIS: Yes, you know? And apparently, she paid it and she`s now home. The child protective services was called in to investigate. Child was removed, is now with her live-in boyfriend, the child`s father. And the neighbors...
GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wait! If the child was removed and is with the live-in boyfriend, doesn`t live-in dictate that he lives in the home with her?
HARRIS: Well, good question. He`s -- you know, my guess is he`s not there, that they would not leave the child in her vicinity. The neighbors are very upset because they say that she`s been seen driving erratically and almost mowed a couple of the kids down.
GRACE: OK, repeat?
HARRIS: There`s a neighbor who told "The New York Post" that she was seen driving very erratically, nearly, quote, "mowed down" this mother and a couple of kids. They had to jump off the sidewalk to get out of the way.
GRACE: Had to jump off the sidewalk to get out of the way.
HARRIS: So she apparently has been described by her neighbors as, quote, "unstable." Her sister came to her defense, Nancy, the other day, said that she was on medication that was prescribed and it was a big misunderstanding.
GRACE: Take a listen to this, Art.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) got a conviction, come back, all right, (DELETED)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Curses and angry words spewed out of Stacy Roe`s home when news (INAUDIBLE) asked about the crime she`s accused of committing inside this Wal-Mart store at the Center Reach (ph) Mall. Cops say the Farmingville (ph) mom was doing more than just shopping in the aisles.
We tried to get Roe`s side of the story. She did not answer the door, but a man inside Roe`s home was clearly not happy to hear about her arrest.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Suffolk police told us that Stacy Roe was arrested for snorting heroin at Wal-Mart with her child in a shopping cart.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get the (DELETED) out of here!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK. Mommy got a potty mouth.
Out to Sherry in Alabama. Hi, Sherry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Nancy. I enjoy your show. I watch it every evening.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you very much. What`s your question, Sherry?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was wondering, does she have any other children? And if she does, are they in care of DHR (ph) or with other relatives?
GRACE: Good question. Heather Nan Collins is with us, with "The Journal Inquirer." Are there other children?
COLLINS: Not according to the neighbor that I spoke to. They just have the little boy. And that neighbor also said that she hasn`t seen that child or Stacy since Saturday. She has seen the boyfriend, but she hasn`t seen the little boy, the little blond-haired, blue-eyed boy.
And also, this wasn`t her first display of public, you know, inappropriate behavior. In addition to the -- almost mowing down the neighbor`s kids, the neighbor also told me that other neighbors said that they`ve seen her sleep in the middle of the day in her car, with the child in the car. So there`s been some concern. They`ve only lived in that townhouse complex for about six months, and she`s had a few run-ins with the neighbors. So it`s very sad, the neighbor said.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say Stacy Roe was pushing her 3-year-old son in a shopping cart inside the Wal-Mart when a security guard saw her snorting something through a straw. Cops say when they confronted Roe, she admitted she had just snorted heroin. And cops say the incident was caught on store surveillance videotape.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s pretty brazen, right there in the local Wal-Mart. You know, you turn around, there`s somebody snorting heroin right next to you.
Out to you, Sue Moss, family law attorney, child advocate. The little 3-year-old was more concerned about getting his Thomas the Tank Engine train, apparently, a little train that talks. What damage will this do to the child?
MOSS: Oh, it`s devastating. An impaired parent is an unfit parent. And in this case, that`s exactly what we have. It`s outrageous that she should be able to stay in the same home with her boyfriend, Daddy, who now has custody of this kid. If Dad knew that Mom was impaired and that she was walking around with heroin in her pocket, he is as guilty as she is.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve got a conviction. Come back, all right, (bleep)?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Curses and angry words spewed out of Stacy Roe`s home when (INAUDIBLE) asked about the crime she`s accused of committing inside this Wal-Mart store at the Center Ridge Mall (ph). Cops say the Farmingville mom was doing more than just shopping in the aisles.
Police say Stacy Roe was pushing her 3-year-old son in a shopping cart inside the Wal-Mart when a security guard saw her snorting something through a straw. Cops say, when they confronted Roe, she admitted she had just snorted heroin, and cops say the incident was caught on store surveillance videotape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s just a shame to be with a kid, snorting heroin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say Roe also had heroin in her wallet. The news disgusted many families shopping at the Center Ridge Mall (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) she has no shame about it. She must figure it`s OK to do it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We tried to get Roe`s side of the story. She did not answer the door, but a man inside Roe`s home was clearly not happy to hear about her arrest.
Suffolk police told us that Stacy Roe was arrested for snorting heroin at Wal-Mart with her child in a shopping cart.
Roe is charged with endangering the welfare of a child and possession of a controlled substance. Her 3-year-old son is in his father`s custody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I wonder what this means for the future of the little boy. And what does it mean about the way that he has been raised so far?
I want to go back out to Marty Mackary, physician and professor of public health, Johns Hopkins. What is the difference between being addicted to cocaine and being addicted to heroin?
DR. MARTY MACKARY, PHYSICIAN, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, heroin is a completely different class of addiction. The withdrawal symptoms from not taking heroin after you have a steady level are significant, bone pain, muscle pain, generalized nausea, vomiting. People really are after whatever it takes to get the next dose, and they often need three to four doses a day, at a cost of $150 to $200 a day.
GRACE: What about cocaine?
MACKARY: Cocaine is used more recreationally, and certainly people do get addicted, but not to the degree people are addicted to heroin.
GRACE: You know, Doctor, the way I would always tell juries -- and maybe I`m just paraphrasing it -- is that, with heroin, it`s a physical addiction. When you try to get off, you physically hurt. When you try to get off cocaine, it`s more of an emotional and mental, a psychological addiction. Would that be accurate?
MACKARY: I would agree with that. One in four Americans will try cocaine at some point in their life, and a fraction will become addicted. About 50 percent to 60 percent of people that try heroin will become truly addicted, to the point where up to 10 percent of some major U.S. cities, such as Baltimore, are addicted to heroin.
GRACE: OK. When you`re on heroin, what do you get out of it? Is it a euphoric high or what?
MACKARY: It`s an intermittent high and drowsiness, and it`s essentially losing touch with reality. And that`s the sensation that people need to maintain. And it`s not so much the high as it is the terrible symptoms that you have once you stop the drug.
GRACE: So, Dr. Jeff Gardere, is there any way she could have cared for this 3-year-old high on heroin?
JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, she was caring for the child, but certainly not in a way that she could have avoided danger. Can you imagine if she had gotten back behind the wheel of the car, with the child -- and she`s driven with this child before, we hear that she`s passed out with the child in the car. So she is putting this child at danger at all times.
Perhaps her instincts kick in, but if she`s in this euphoric high, well, certainly she`s not doing the right thing, and she does put that child in severe danger. And her inappropriate behaviors can certainly put him in a position where he can be hurt.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Paulette in Florida. Hi, Paulette.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy, how are you today?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CALLER: Do you believe that, as long as we have misdemeanor drug charges for heroin and cocaine, that the problem will keep growing until the public itself starts placing stiffer penalties on the users of these drugs and get these kids where they really belong, in decent homes?
GRACE: Paulette, I`m shocked that this is a misdemeanor. In many jurisdictions, no matter what the amount is for cocaine, heroin, and a few other drugs, it is always a felony. When I was prosecuting cases, and it was a first-time drug user, I would very often send them to rehab, try to get them help. On the second time, they go to jail. But under no condition would they be able to keep their children. I mean, you`re just setting children up for a dangerous situation, Paulette. So that`s my belief on it.
Out to Anita in Alabama. Hi, Anita.
CALLER: Hi.
GRACE: How are you, dear?
CALLER: I`m doing OK.
GRACE: What`s your question?
CALLER: Well, I`m wondering, has this mom had any prior connections with this heroin use that the family knew about? Because she certainly has a lot of people that`s protecting her, such as the man in the garage and the sister that came to her rescue.
GRACE: So you`re saying the family is enabling. What about it, Heather Collins? Did she have any prior history? And do we believe for any reason the family knew about this? How could you not?
HEATHER COLLINS, COURT REPORTER: Well, the folks at the police department today didn`t know if she had any prior arrests. The neighbors said that she has seen -- you know, people kind of coming going at all hours. And certainly, if the boyfriend is home, he knows people are coming and going at all hours. So he knows something is up.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us, Sue Moss, Renee Rockwell, Mickey Sherman. So I guess, Mickey, you think a user amount of heroin, hey, it`s happening everywhere, we might as well not do anything about that, too?
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, I think we should probably lock her up for the rest of her life. I mean, this is ridiculous. Where are these neighbors? What were the dates -- I must have missed it -- that they made the reports to the police that she was mowing down kids? I mean, what a lot of B.S. They`re piling on. She`s a first offender, no record, self- use. She`s got a problem. Let the children or protective services come in like they have, look at the situation, go to rehab.
GRACE: Got a problem. Got a problem. I don`t know, but I call it a crime, Renee Rockwell. I guess you don`t think it`s a crime, either?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, the best thing that ever happened to her is that she got caught, because what`s going to happened is she`s going to be sent to rehab. It`s the first time. She`s not going to have a criminal record. She`s going to have the opportunity to take rehab, and that`s what she`ll do.
GRACE: Very quickly, everybody, I don`t want to cheat you on the latest on Michael Jackson. Believe it or not, Michael Jackson going all around the country, making millions at VIP appearances. Tonight, the Jackson family memorabilia, a warehouse full of it, goes on the auction block. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... the lucky auction house chosen to sell the Jacksons` personal items legally sold in bankruptcy court. For fans who think this auction is unfair, Eddinger (ph) said it`s more positive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s about that. It`s about a celebration of the accomplishments of this very talented family, and nothing more.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, Michael Jackson and his family have accumulated a lot of stuff, posters, more posters, the pictures, the paintings, even painted by fans. And it appears they got rid of very little.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From the 1960s with the Jackson Five to Michael`s solo success, the auction brings you up close and personal to the entire Jackson family. If you bid the highest price, anything crammed inside this room at the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino can be yours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: From Jackson`s stage costume in "Thriller" all the way to dirty underwear, bulletproof vests, platinum records, and tubes of bleaching cream. Help me out, Diane Dimond, what`s the story?
DIANE DIMOND, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Briefly, Nancy, there was a man who won the contents of some storage closets from the Jackson family, Mr. and Mrs. Jackson, actually. It`s a long drawn-out court affair. His name was Henry Vaccaro. He finally sold his whole collection that he had gotten from the Jackson family, and that`s what we see on auction out there in Vegas today and tomorrow.
GRACE: But how did he get it originally, Diane?
DIMOND: Well, again, it`s an eight-year-long battle, but I`ll make it brief. He had a beef with the Jacksons. He sued them. It took a long, long time. You know Brian Oxman. He was the attorney for the Jackson family at the time.
And as I understand it, it came down to the fact where, if Brian Oxman had come to court with a check, he could have had the contents of those storage closets, but he failed to do that, so the judge in the case awarded them to Henry Vaccaro for recompense for all of his years of trying to fight the Jacksons. He told me -- Henry Vaccaro told me, "I opened the closets. I thought, you know, maybe I`ll have some dusty old clothes or something." He said he couldn`t believe the amount of items in there. I`ve seen them all. It is an amazing collection.
GRACE: What are some of the items that went on the block today, Diane?
DIMOND: Well, it`s today and tomorrow, so I`m not sure which days, but there`s a bulletproof vest that Michael Jackson wore in the Victory tour. There are rows and rows of platinum and gold records under glass. There`s wardrobe, wardrobe chests full of specialty items. There`s that big head of E.T. Michael Jackson took a looking to it, and he bought it, and it was in the collection. I saw the big bicycle that was in the video that he made with Paul McCartney, "Say Say Say," the bicycle with the big front wheel.
And lots of personal correspondence in Michael Jackson`s own hand. The thing that was most compelling to me was a little note that he had written to his sister-in-law warning her to watch out for child molesters. He was worried about his three nephews.
GRACE: Diane Dimond, investigative reporter, has been through the warehouse, has seen all these items. We`ll be right back on this story.
But very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert." Parents in search of their 4-year-old little girl, Maddy McCann, snatched during a luxury resort vacation, meet with the pope. The Pope says he will pray for Maddy`s safe return. Baby Maddy vanished early May, while her parents were at a dinner party. The couple released the last video of baby Maddy, dressed in pink, with the family on an airport shuttle bus and tarmac.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s his trunk. See this? It`s somebody`s white briefs that were soiled right here.
DIMOND: Calvin Klein underwear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know whose they are, and I`m not about to find out, but they`re soiled.
DIMOND: How big are they?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. I don`t want to...
DIMOND: Mind if I check?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead.
DIMOND: They`re a size 28.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, they`re not mine.
DIMOND: Henry, you know...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re not mine.
DIMOND: That might have some DNA on it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It probably does.
This is a chemical compound, and it says skin bleaching agent.
DIMOND: Skin bleaching agent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s what it says.
DIMOND: But Michael Jackson...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prescription compound, and I`m not saying it`s Michael Jackson`s. I`m just saying it was found in his wardrobe trunk, which is this wardrobe trunk.
DIMOND: Two tubes of it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two tubes.
DIMOND: And it clearly says skin bleaching agent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
DIMOND: And it`s used.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s used.
DIMOND: Somebody used it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody used it.
DIMOND: This is his trunk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s his trunk.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Just hold that thought for a moment. Michael Jackson`s skin bleaching cream could be yours, all yours, if you attend this auction. Joining us right now, Diane Dimond, investigative reporter and author. Diane, a lot of controversial and personal items were allegedly in this auction. What were they? And did they make it to the auction block?
DIMOND: Well, I presume that most of them did. Now, listen, this whole cache was a bunch of stuff from a lot of the Jacksons. I saw things from Tito and Jermaine and Janet and LaToya and the parents, so I don`t know what belonged to who.
But we did see some sex toys. We saw some risque photographs. I know there was alleged to have been some drawings of nude boys in Michael Jackson`s hand, but I`ll tell you what, I never saw them. That would be a good story. I`d like to be able to tell you that, but that just didn`t happen.
There was artwork of Michael`s of young boys, but beautiful profiles. He`s quite an artist, but I didn`t see anything where I looked at it and I said, "Oh, that`s illegal."
GRACE: Joining us right now is the chairman and CEO of Universe Express, the owner of the auctioned Jackson items, Richard Altomare. Sir, thank you for being with us.
RICHARD ALTOMARE, UNIVERSAL EXPRESS: It`s my pleasure. Thank you for having me, Nancy. That was Universal Express. Thank you.
GRACE: Thank you. Question: What can you tell us about the auction happening over the next couple of days? What`s for sale, and how much do you expect to make?
ALTOMARE: Well, I think that what they`re going to see for the next day and a half is the museum-quality items of the collection. And I think that, when all is said and done, because the second phase will be some of the items that have been alluded to that are still in the warehouse, that we will come back and visit after this first stage is over. And, Nancy, I can promise you, it will be much more revealing for you than when Geraldo Rivera went into the vault.
And then we have a series of tapes and songs, some of which have been recorded and not released, some of which I think are just remarkable. And all of those masters are in the collection that Universal Express purchased. So I think the first stage, this museum quality, where we`re estimating somewhere between maybe $5 million and $10 million when all those items are sold.
And then, of course, you know, it`s a process, Nancy. It`s not going to occur in just two days.
GRACE: Also, joining us today, the Jackson family attorney. You know him well, veteran trial lawyer Brian Oxman.
Brian, thank you for being with us. Will Michael Jackson see any of this money?
BRIAN OXMAN, JACKSON FAMILY ATTORNEY: Nancy, we don`t think so. There has been a lawsuit that Michael filed, where he wanted to get back all of his personal items which were confidential, things such as bank statements and personal letters. He settled that lawsuit with these individuals.
The materials which are left there, Nancy, I have to tell you, are junk. There has been a sale of a Cleveland City Council resolution. It went for the great big price of $100. Randy`s bongo drums, which would sell in the store for at least $1,200 or $1,500, $550 at this auction.
I`m sorry. Diane is absolutely correct. We could have bought this for $25,000. All the family had to do was ante up. They said, "No way, it`s junk."
GRACE: Back to Mr. Altomare, who is conducting the auction, is it true that there are platinum records and stage costumes of Michael Jackson`s being auctioned?
ALTOMARE: Yes, of course, there are. And I do know that the first few hours of this auction have exceeded $400,000, or $500,000. So with all due respect to Mr. Oxman, I guess everyone has a different definition of junk.
I don`t know Mr. Oxman. We`ve never, you know, met. But I don`t know if this is the same Mr. Oxman that was sanctioned by the state of California for filing false reports on behalf of the Jackson family. It may not be the same.
GRACE: Well, obviously, that`s the same name, but in an entirely different matter. Back to you, Brian Oxman, to defend yourself?
OXMAN: You bet, Nancy. This family has been put through the wringer on this. We have things in this auction which never were in this storage cabinet. I have photographs of the storage cabinet. I`ve personally inspected it. The result is, is that things are being auctioned which we`ve never seen before.
The fedora hat, that was never in the storage cabinet. Supposedly Janet`s dancing shoes, excuse me, it was never in the storage cabinet. You can look through these photographs, which I have, and most of this material was never there.
GRACE: You know, Brian, where has Michael Jackson been lately? Do we have a map of that, Rosie?
OXMAN: He is in London right now.
GRACE: Excuse me?
OXMAN: He`s in London right now.
GRACE: Is he working on a project?
OXMAN: He attended a party by Prince Azim, who is the son of the sultan of Brunei. He received 5 million pounds for attending that, and translates into U.S. dollars about $10 million.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Platinum records, stage costumes, underwear, you name it, all going on the auction block regarding Michael Jackson. Out to the lines, Mary Beth in Ohio. Hi, Mary Beth.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call.
GRACE: Thanks for watching.
CALLER: I want to say thank you to you and all your staff. You guys do awesome work for all the victims.
GRACE: Thank you, love.
CALLER: OK. My question is, has there been or could there be any DNA testing on the soiled clothing or any of the costumes?
GRACE: You smart, smart girl. I`ve got just the person to answer that question. She asked it first, Diane Dimond.
DIMOND: ... in the wardrobe closet, I have to admit, it wasn`t my most shining moment as an investigative reporter, but I did note the underwear. And the Santa Barbara D.A.`s office did come and get it during the criminal trial, and I believe they did test it. They were Michael`s.
GRACE: Out to Lou in Indiana. Hi, Lou.
CALLER: Hi, friend.
GRACE: Hello, friend. What`s your question?
CALLER: Yes, I`m wondering, with all the media attention the sale is getting -- and, of course, with the prices are going to skyrocket -- is any of this money going to be donated to charity?
GRACE: What will happen to the money, Richard Altomare, with Universal Express, any money going to charity?
ALTOMARE: Oh, absolutely. That was the first thing that I required as soon as we took control of the property. We offered 10 percent to five children`s charities that we`ve listed, from St. Jude`s home to Make-a-Wish Foundation, and three others.
GRACE: OK, I`m glad to here it, Mr. Altomare. And apparently the auction and the beat goes on tomorrow.
Let`s stop to remember tonight Army Private First Class William Tony Farrar, Jr., 20, Redlands, California, killed, Iraq. First tour, loved paint ball, computer games, and e-mailing home. Favorite movie, "Spaceballs." Leaves behind grieving family, William Farrar, Jr., American hero.
Thank you to our guests, but most of all to you. And happy birthday to Clarice. Happy birthday, friend. See you guys tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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